Value of Life according to Race/Nationality, etc.

[KingKhanWC]

To any sane person all life has the same value but in today's world because of power, influence and location certain lives are mourned more than others.

Living in the western world the value of life is often seen as this..

Most Valuable to least ..

1. Israeli - When an Israeli soldier is captured/killed his photo is made known along with his life but if a dozen Palestinians are killed, nobody will know who they were.

2. American

3. European

4. South Asia

5. Middle Eastern

6. African

100,000 Africans dying will not be mourned as much as one Israeli here.

How is the trend where you live?

 

[Bewal Express]

I agree that all life is equal and precious but the single biggest determinant of the value of life is how each life is valued in its own country. Sadly the reason no one values African lives is quite simply because their own people / govt dont care for them.

 

[Yossarian]

I'm afraid the premise of this thread is exactly the type of information, even if accurate, that gets twisted and misused by the extremist groups to justify their terrorist actions and murder of innocents. So lets not give them more ammunition to work with.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I'm afraid the premise of this thread is exactly the type of information, even if accurate, that gets twisted and misused by the extremist groups to justify their terrorist actions and murder of innocents. So lets not give them more ammunition to work with.

This is a philosophical discussion on the mindset which is prevailing. Terrorists who kill innocent people whether it's governments or groups will justify their actions regardless of this thread. I would argue the opposite, discussing such issues in the open is better for all. We have seen mosques being scrutinised for discussing such issues leading to extremists going underground which makes it harder to locate them. But if you wish not to discuss, simply don't.

 

[shaykh]

Lol this is actually nonsensical...

Are you suggesting only white Europeans are affected by terror attacks in Europe?...

People show sympathy when something relates to them...naturally I care more about a terror attack in London...much like a Pakistani would care more about a terror attack in Peshawar...

If there were Muslims who had died yesterday there would have been sympathy...you think when people found out a Romanian woman fell in the river it suddenly became irrelevant?...

I've spent time in Ukraine and in the East...its more sad for me than some other places because ive spent time there...

People feel more when they relate to something or when they have that it could have been me feeling...and thats people of all ethnicities...

I don't attack black people for getting a little more upset when a black person dies than someone white in the US...nor would I play this silly values game with a Pakistani over Peshawar...of course a Pakistani would be more upset about this...what I find ridiculous about your premise is youre attacking the West as if they are unique here...

And the stuff about Israel is frankly nonsense...you think its no1?...Israel had a lorry attack recently...and they have had stabbings...where was the media coverage in Britain?...it was minimal...Israel is certainly down on the list...i didnt see no FB things about changing ones profile pictures nor did the Eiffel Tower change colour...Israeli deaths don't register in Europe...unless its to score political points...

Honestly are you going to tell me a Pakistani is wrong for feeling more for Peshawar than he does France?...if not then why you do bother with vice versa...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Lol this is actually nonsensical...

Are you suggesting only white Europeans are affected by terror attacks in Europe?...

People show sympathy when something relates to them...naturally I care more about a terror attack in London...much like a Pakistani would care more about a terror attack in Peshawar...

If there were Muslims who had died yesterday there would have been sympathy...you think when people found out a Romanian woman fell in the river it suddenly became irrelevant?...

I've spent time in Ukraine and in the East...its more sad for me than some other places because ive spent time there...

People feel more when they relate to something or when they have that it could have been me feeling...and thats people of all ethnicities...

I don't attack black people for getting a little more upset when a black person dies than someone white in the US...nor would I play this silly values game with a Pakistani over Peshawar...of course a Pakistani would be more upset about this...what I find ridiculous about your premise is youre attacking the West as if they are unique here...

And the stuff about Israel is frankly nonsense...you think its no1?...Israel had a lorry attack recently...and they have had stabbings...where was the media coverage in Britain?...it was minimal...Israel is certainly down on the list...i didnt see no FB things about changing ones profile pictures nor did the Eiffel Tower change colour...Israeli deaths don't register in Europe...unless its to score political points...

Honestly are you going to tell me a Pakistani is wrong for feeling more for Peshawar than he does France?...if not then why you do bother with vice versa...

If there is no media coverage there obviously the public will be unaware. I'm not suggesting it's right or wrong but stating how the value of life is perceived here in the UK. When in the media an Israeli solider has had more coverage than a British solider. Gilad Shilat comes to mind. Of course being a fan of Israel this is hard to stomach for you but is the reality.

 

[shaykh]

If there is no media coverage there obviously the public will be unaware. I'm not suggesting it's right or wrong but stating how the value of life is perceived here in the UK. When in the media an Israeli solider has had more coverage than a British solider. Gilad Shilat comes to mind. Of course being a fan of Israel this is hard to stomach for you but is the reality.

Tell me how many of the Israeli soldiers killed this year have had coverage?...bet you had to google the lorry attack in Jerusalem...fact is Israeli deaths don't really register here...and that isn't me saying they should...it's just a fact that they dont...can you find me a British newspaper that names those killed in the lorry attack...or even a picture?...i can help you...they didn't...

Europeans don't view the attacks in Israel like they view the ones in London, Berlin or France...they certainly resonate more...

Israel/Palestine is politically important hence it gets covered...like your example of Shalit...he was the first soldier captured in over a decade...that's why it made news...it was of political relevance...for you to bring him up in this discussion is quite odd...

67 soldiers died during Protective Edge...are you honestly telling me each of those soldiers got a photo and life story in a British paper?...

Last week 2 police officers were stabbed in Jerusalem...I actually challenge you to find a British newspaper that even covered that...

I'm not suggesting the police stabbed in Jerusalem should get more coverage...but it's your argument that apparently British people and the British press value and give more coverage to Israeli deaths...and it's just not even close to being true...

 

[James]

I agree that all life is equal and precious but the single biggest determinant of the value of life is how each life is valued in its own country. Sadly the reason no one values African lives is quite simply because their own people / govt dont care for them.

Absolutely the perfect response and absolutely correct.

Look at the enormous outpouring of goodwill and reverence in the direction of the single Westminster police officer who was killed by yesterday's perpetrator - huge value placed by a society on one person's life; within 24 hours he turned from a complete nobody into an undisputed hero due to his personal sacrifice. Endless parliamentary and media tributes along with a nationwide minute's silence and candlelight vigil in the capital.

There is no way that most societies would place such a high price on the life of one person. Rightly or wrongly - these happenings are what result in the mentality being rightly called out by KKWC.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Tell me how many of the Israeli soldiers killed this year have had coverage?...bet you had to google the lorry attack in Jerusalem...fact is Israeli deaths don't really register here...and that isn't me saying they should...it's just a fact that they dont...can you find me a British newspaper that names those killed in the lorry attack...or even a picture?...i can help you...they didn't...

Europeans don't view the attacks in Israel like they view the ones in London, Berlin or France...they certainly resonate more...

Israel/Palestine is politically important hence it gets covered...like your example of Shalit...he was the first soldier captured in over a decade...that's why it made news...it was of political relevance...for you to bring him up in this discussion is quite odd...

67 soldiers died during Protective Edge...are you honestly telling me each of those soldiers got a photo and life story in a British paper?...

Last week 2 police officers were stabbed in Jerusalem...I actually challenge you to find a British newspaper that even covered that...

I'm not suggesting the police stabbed in Jerusalem should get more coverage...but it's your argument that apparently British people and the British press value and give more coverage to Israeli deaths...and it's just not even close to being true...

You did not read my first sentence..If there is no media coverage, obviously the public will be unaware. No I didn't google the lorry attack, I read an article on the BBC news site, you must have missed it or are confused if you think it didn't make the media here. Below is the link WITH NAMES...So you are very incorrect.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-38546740

Israelis are given special coverage, any criticism of Israel is seen as anti-Semitism. This is why they are no.1 in my list. The list is my personal opinion and I asked others to make their own list according to where they are living. What is yours according to where you live? Is the point of the discussion, not for you to defend Israel and Israelis which you seem to be emotionally attached to.

 

[shaykh]

Well done you found one...heres some that dont...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/08/truck-rammed-into-pedestrians-jerusalem

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-three-wounding-15-pedestrians-Jerusalem.html

And the Daily Mail is mainly about the fact that its another lorry attack...very little on the actual deaths themselves...

So no i am not very incorrect...

This isn't a defence of Israel...I haven't asked for more coverage...the fact is I live in the same country as you so im telling you your list is bs...

The media isn't pro-Israeli here on the whole anymore...and neither are the people...
If you had said Israelis are valued more than Palestinians then there is a discussion to be had...

But you made probably the most ridiculous comment i have seen on this forum which is that a British soldier is less valuable to a Brit than an Israeli...

France and Germany matter a hell of a lot more to the average Brit and also to the media here...because our issues are the same...

Israel gets coverage because it is in the Middle East...Palestinians also get more coverage than anywhere else...its politics...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Well done you found one...heres some that dont...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/08/truck-rammed-into-pedestrians-jerusalem

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-three-wounding-15-pedestrians-Jerusalem.html

And the Daily Mail is mainly about the fact that its another lorry attack...very little on the actual deaths themselves...

So no i am not very incorrect...

This isn't a defence of Israel...I haven't asked for more coverage...the fact is I live in the same country as you so im telling you your list is bs...

The media isn't pro-Israeli here on the whole anymore...and neither are the people...
If you had said Israelis are valued more than Palestinians then there is a discussion to be had...

But you made probably the most ridiculous comment i have seen on this forum which is that a British soldier is less valuable to a Brit than an Israeli...

France and Germany matter a hell of a lot more to the average Brit and also to the media here...because our issues are the same...

Israel gets coverage because it is in the Middle East...Palestinians also get more coverage than anywhere else...its politics...

Well done? lol.

You wrote " can you find me a British newspaper that names those killed in the lorry attack...or even a picture?...i can help you...they didn't..."

You were wrong, accept it. Now you're trying to shift the post to say but not every media gives their name which I never suggested. Rarely is a Palestinian who has been murdered named.

The western media/governments are pro-Israel. But perhaps you can explain why they are pro-Israel? Why does Israel get so much support in terms or aid, sympathy, arms etc etc? Why is an Israeli life more valualalbe than a Palestinian or Pakistani or Iraqi life?

 

[shaz619]

To any sane person all life has the same value but in today's world because of power, influence and location certain lives are mourned more than others.

Living in the western world the value of life is often seen as this..

Most Valuable to least ..

1. Israeli - When an Israeli soldier is captured/killed his photo is made known along with his life but if a dozen Palestinians are killed, nobody will know who they were.

2. American

3. European

4. South Asia

5. Middle Eastern

6. African

100,000 Africans dying will not be mourned as much as one Israeli here.

How is the trend where you live?

All life has the same value but I have to admit that say if something was going down in brum I'd be more concerned and worried given me family, friends and even you being there more than what is happening in another part of the world

 

[Adil_94]

Lets be honest while we all feel sad at the loss of innocent lives due to war terrorism poverty famine across the globe we all have our own hierarchies of people whos death and suffering affect us more. For a lot of westerners an attack in America in Canada in Britain in the E.U is something that affects them more because they have affinity with these countries due to very strong political and cultural ties with each other.

Its the same with Muslims too what happens in the Arab World gets Muslims attention a lot more than conflicts anywhere because of the religious link they have with the Arab world and its position as the cradle of Islam. So much so that other instances of violence in the Muslim world such as in Somalia Nigeria or the persecution of Rohingyas in Burma or of Uyghurs in China rarely gets a mention by most Muslims. Its always Palestine Iraq and Syria that get the most attention and tears.

Same way for most Muslims and Westerners death of Ukrainians and Russians in the Crimean War or Nagorno-Karabakh conflict or the South Sudan Civil War doesnt matter to them because there is no affinity with these places historically.

If an attack happens in Kenya and one happens in Pakistan the one that happened in Pakistan will get more of my attention and emotion and people shouldnt be ashamed of that. doesnt mean i dont feel sad for the Kenyans but lives of Pakistanis mean more to me. To virtue signal and complain about Westerners being more sad when other Westerners are killed everyone is guilty of their own biases and preferences.

 

[KingKhanWC]

All life has the same value but I have to admit that say if something was going down in brum I'd be more concerned and worried given me family, friends and even you being there more than what is happening in another part of the world

This is natural but what about other parts of the world? Why are Israeli's given more sympathy than say a Somalian in this country? Is it because Israeli's are seen as 'white'? Does racism play a part in the physce of people living in the west or is just due to government propaganda?

 

[shaz619]

This is natural but what about other parts of the world? Why are Israeli's given more sympathy than say a Somalian in this country? Is it because Israeli's are seen as 'white'? Does racism play a part in the physce of people living in the west or is just due to government propaganda?

Probably a combination of both and also there are some who have an uncle tom like psyche as well, they just want to be white so desperately. There are folk with an inferior complex to, I've seen many in our city express so much outrage about what goes down in the middle east and am not saying it's a bad thing or the help that they give to arabs in need but when something goes down in our own city or say something bad happens in pak they don't care as much. Off course there are people who genuinely want to help but i don't see as much effort helping those in need in brum or pak or jamaica

 

[shaz619]

Lets be honest while we all feel sad at the loss of innocent lives due to war terrorism poverty famine across the globe we all have our own hierarchies of people whos death and suffering affect us more. For a lot of westerners an attack in America in Canada in Britain in the E.U is something that affects them more because they have affinity with these countries due to very strong political and cultural ties with each other.

Its the same with Muslims too what happens in the Arab World gets Muslims attention a lot more than conflicts anywhere because of the religious link they have with the Arab world and its position as the cradle of Islam. So much so that other instances of violence in the Muslim world such as in Somalia Nigeria or the persecution of Rohingyas in Burma or of Uyghurs in China rarely gets a mention by most Muslims. Its always Palestine Iraq and Syria that get the most attention and tears.

Same way for most Muslims and Westerners death of Ukrainians and Russians in the Crimean War or Nagorno-Karabakh conflict or the South Sudan Civil War doesnt matter to them because there is no affinity with these places historically.

If an attack happens in Kenya and one happens in Pakistan the one that happened in Pakistan will get more of my attention and emotion and people shouldnt be ashamed of that. doesnt mean i dont feel sad for the Kenyans but lives of Pakistanis mean more to me. To virtue signal and complain about Westerners being more sad when other Westerners are killed everyone is guilty of their own biases and preferences.

I like the Kenyans, remember when they reached the semi final of the 2003 WC; I really thought they would beat India ) I started to BELIEVE. Wow, it's such a big shame isn't it we exited that tournament in the first round despite the star studded names yet an associate reached the semis.

Yep, am not a big fan of Arabs tbh; besides we got enough people concerned with their plight so I'll focus on the voices who no one listens to. The people of Brum! the people of Bradford! the people of Pak and the people of Jamaikah! feel free to add anymore you feel no one cares about

 

[shaykh]

This is natural but what about other parts of the world? Why are Israeli's given more sympathy than say a Somalian in this country? Is it because Israeli's are seen as 'white'? Does racism play a part in the physce of people living in the west or is just due to government propaganda?

You still haven't made it clear who they get sympathy from?...the media?...people in general?...

But it comes down to this really...who's politics you agree with...Israel/Palestine is a very politicised issue...and has little to do with race...Israel is half Mizrahi...

If you agree with Israels politics more than Palestines then you will sympathise with them more...and vice versa...

The left is very anti-Israel actually...and the right is a mixture of pro-Israel and anti-Semites...

Israelis are more similar culturally...in that the state is relatively liberal...people speak English etc...and many of them are Ashkenazi and European...Netanyahu was educated in the US so its not surprising he would be viewed to be closer in culture to the West...

The Somalia comparison is just odd cos many people dont even form an opinion on Somalia...most Muslims care a lot about Palestine because its so heavily politicised...I mean no-one on this forum bothered to post anything about the Somalian famine which killed 260,000 people...because frankly most wouldn't even know about it...the media doesnt cover Somalia beyond the fact that Al-Shabab exist there...

Many may see more of an affinity with Israel out of the notion of a shared Islamic enemy who also kill civilians ...but as stated earlier Israel is down on the list in comparison to Europe in general...France, Berlin and Belgium feel more closer in general...closer culturally and more important closer because of the reasons they are killed which is the same as us in Britain...the likes of Beslan in Russia resonated here in the UK even if the people here are anti-Russian because of the nature of the crime...

If soldiers are killed somewhere it doesnt bring about the same feelings as say if a nightclub is bombed...Turkeys party bombing was heavily covered here even though almost all the victims were Muslim...it was an attack on people doing Western things...

Your looking for race as your answer but primarily its culture and the nature of the crime that determines how incidents resonate with people...

 

[shaykh]

Lets be honest while we all feel sad at the loss of innocent lives due to war terrorism poverty famine across the globe we all have our own hierarchies of people whos death and suffering affect us more. For a lot of westerners an attack in America in Canada in Britain in the E.U is something that affects them more because they have affinity with these countries due to very strong political and cultural ties with each other.

Its the same with Muslims too what happens in the Arab World gets Muslims attention a lot more than conflicts anywhere because of the religious link they have with the Arab world and its position as the cradle of Islam. So much so that other instances of violence in the Muslim world such as in Somalia Nigeria or the persecution of Rohingyas in Burma or of Uyghurs in China rarely gets a mention by most Muslims. Its always Palestine Iraq and Syria that get the most attention and tears.

Same way for most Muslims and Westerners death of Ukrainians and Russians in the Crimean War or Nagorno-Karabakh conflict or the South Sudan Civil War doesnt matter to them because there is no affinity with these places historically.

If an attack happens in Kenya and one happens in Pakistan the one that happened in Pakistan will get more of my attention and emotion and people shouldnt be ashamed of that. doesnt mean i dont feel sad for the Kenyans but lives of Pakistanis mean more to me. To virtue signal and complain about Westerners being more sad when other Westerners are killed everyone is guilty of their own biases and preferences.

Exactly...

Pakistanis will matter more to you...and that is fair enough...

Londons my home and I will care about it more...

What does frustrate is people who moan about people showing selective sympathy when they do exactly the same thing themselves...

Im sure the OP didn't get as sad about Darfur as he did Peshawar...or Ukraine over 7/7...and thats fine...whats not is trying to suggest others are bigots for not caring for everyone equally or treating every incident equally...

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=133972]shaykh[/MENTION] exactly why hold westerners to some higher moral standard when we all are guilty of the same thing. Put it this way if your neighbour on your street is killed that will hurt you and affect you more than some random person halfway across the country who u dont know. This is a part of our human nature. Or say when someone like Junaid Jamshed dies you got mass media tributes over him because of his fame and status now you could be a contrarian and say hundreds are dying of poverty violence extremism in Pakistan every day why is this one mans life more important than theirs. But everyone has these biases towards celebrities their countryment their co religionists. It doesnt mean you dont care about other peoples deaths but it doesnt affect you as more.

So to moan when westerners dont cry about Istanbul as much as they do about Paris. Well for you Lahore and Gaza gets more attention than The Donbass or Ossetia or Lagos.

 

[Adil_94]

the case of Israel is a unique one. Israel isnt as high up on the sympathy scale as western states but after western states israel is probably the one that gets the most sympathy amongst certain sections of the Western Press because Israel claims itself to be the only democracy in the Middle east and following the western liberal democratic model of governance in theory.

the establishment right wing press is very pro Israel while the left wing is a lot more pro Palestinian. The status quo on Israel is not what it used to be in a lot of western states bar America where there is a very strong and influential pro Israeli presence in the media and politics, But even now in America there is the rise of the Justice Democrats within the Democratic party who are former Bernie supporters who have a foreign policy stance that is much harsher on Israel . But the E.U is a firm supporter of the two state solution and withdrawing of illegal settlements in the occupied territories and because of a much higher proportion of Muslims in places like U.K and France civil society groups charities ngos have all worked to highlight the issues facing Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and in Gaza and there is slowly a more contrasting view on the conflict developing. You go to most Unis in the U.K and in the politics or middle east studies areas you will.find way more pro Palestinian voices in academia too.

Im studying a whole module this semester just on israel-palestine and majority of people have a pro palestinian stance including my lecturer.

We had an Arab Israeli PHD student who came in to describe the experiences of Arab citizens of Israel which blew my mind. But the fact westerners will have more sympathy for an Israeli death than a Somali. well you can say the same about a Desi Muslim who cares more about Syrians and Palestinians than Nigerians under boko haram or Malians. there is a hierarchy of victimhood in the muslim world too with Arabs firmly at the.top.

We should all cry for Palestine but Arabs go missing when Kashmir is on the agenda.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

[MENTION=133972]shaykh[/MENTION] exactly why hold westerners to some higher moral standard when we all are guilty of the same thing. Put it this way if your neighbour on your street is killed that will hurt you and affect you more than some random person halfway across the country who u dont know. This is a part of our human nature. Or say when someone like Junaid Jamshed dies you got mass media tributes over him because of his fame and status now you could be a contrarian and say hundreds are dying of poverty violence extremism in Pakistan every day why is this one mans life more important than theirs. But everyone has these biases towards celebrities their countryment their co religionists. It doesnt mean you dont care about other peoples deaths but it doesnt affect you as more.

So to moan when westerners dont cry about Istanbul as much as they do about Paris. Well for you Lahore and Gaza gets more attention than The Donbass or Ossetia or Lagos.

I disagree slightly. I think with power comes more responsibility, especially as western powers are not just passive observers with regard to the rest of the world, but actively try to control it with their organisations like the UN, NATO, WHO and other bodies. When your armies are being sent around the globe to enforce your interests, you do have responsibility for lives abroad.

The question does remain though, why is it third world or developing countries don't seem to place as much value on the lives of their own citizens as those in the west? Is it culture? Economics? Lack of true control of their own affairs? It has to be remembered that Europe and it's far flung offspring in other corners of the globe were probably quite similar before their rise to wealth in the last few centuries.

I suppose the real test will come if and when the rising economies like India or China ever assume such a position of power. Will they value foreign lives any more than the western countries do now?

 

[Rayyman]

Racism is over.

The world is united.

 

[shaykh]

[MENTION=133972]shaykh[/MENTION] exactly why hold westerners to some higher moral standard when we all are guilty of the same thing. Put it this way if your neighbour on your street is killed that will hurt you and affect you more than some random person halfway across the country who u dont know. This is a part of our human nature. Or say when someone like Junaid Jamshed dies you got mass media tributes over him because of his fame and status now you could be a contrarian and say hundreds are dying of poverty violence extremism in Pakistan every day why is this one mans life more important than theirs. But everyone has these biases towards celebrities their countryment their co religionists. It doesnt mean you dont care about other peoples deaths but it doesnt affect you as more.

So to moan when westerners dont cry about Istanbul as much as they do about Paris. Well for you Lahore and Gaza gets more attention than The Donbass or Ossetia or Lagos.

Yeh something having an effect on you is not indicative of how you value life...

People will care about some things more than others...and celebrities is a good shout...is the person who got more upset about Prince than say Wendy Richard saying Princes life is more important?...not at all...

 

[shaykh]

the case of Israel is a unique one. Israel isnt as high up on the sympathy scale as western states but after western states israel is probably the one that gets the most sympathy amongst certain sections of the Western Press because Israel claims itself to be the only democracy in the Middle east and following the western liberal democratic model of governance in theory.

the establishment right wing press is very pro Israel while the left wing is a lot more pro Palestinian. The status quo on Israel is not what it used to be in a lot of western states bar America where there is a very strong and influential pro Israeli presence in the media and politics, But even now in America there is the rise of the Justice Democrats within the Democratic party who are former Bernie supporters who have a foreign policy stance that is much harsher on Israel . But the E.U is a firm supporter of the two state solution and withdrawing of illegal settlements in the occupied territories and because of a much higher proportion of Muslims in places like U.K and France civil society groups charities ngos have all worked to highlight the issues facing Palestinians in the occupied West Bank and in Gaza and there is slowly a more contrasting view on the conflict developing. You go to most Unis in the U.K and in the politics or middle east studies areas you will.find way more pro Palestinian voices in academia too.

Im studying a whole module this semester just on israel-palestine and majority of people have a pro palestinian stance including my lecturer.

We had an Arab Israeli PHD student who came in to describe the experiences of Arab citizens of Israel which blew my mind. But the fact westerners will have more sympathy for an Israeli death than a Somali. well you can say the same about a Desi Muslim who cares more about Syrians and Palestinians than Nigerians under boko haram or Malians. there is a hierarchy of victimhood in the muslim world too with Arabs firmly at the.top.

We should all cry for Palestine but Arabs go missing when Kashmir is on the agenda.

Agree with you again...there has been a shift in Britain of late regarding Israel...hence my comments to KKWC...Israel is certainly not popular here...

The amount of aid Palestinians receive from the EU is indicative of that also...the growth of the boycott movement...protests etc...the left once upon a time used to be pro Israel...that of course has changed...

Israel is important because of politics...i dont think people hold any special sympathies here unless they agree with their politics...

The US I agree is quite pro Israel in comparison...

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=133972]shaykh[/MENTION] before you go back 20 30 years and both right and left were unanimous in their support for Israel and any criticism of Israel was seen as anti semitism and that tactic is still used by pro Israeli groups in the media but criticism of Israel is acceptable now. Its harshly criticised by the U.N by the left wing media for its illegal settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank. The U.S is still the one that backs it through thick and thin althought John Kerry and Obama did try to take a harder line against Israel but were restricted by what they could do due to the effect it could have on domestic politics. The Jewish vote is very influential in California and New York for Democrats.

But Trump seems to be going in the opposite direction he has just appointed a hardline right wing Zionist as the next ambassador to Israel.