Vernon Philander or Tim Southee : Who is a better bowler in swinging conditions?

[HussainRx8]

Vernon Philander clearly has a better overall average. But Tim Southee has played a lot more away games on dead pitches than Philander.

 

[Bilal7]

Philander is much better in seam/swing-friendly conditions.

 

[Ab Fan]

Both are overrated players and are nowhere near to be termed as World Class..

 

[Slog]

Vernon seams the ball than swing really

 

[Hasan123]

Vernon

 

[Slog]

Both are overrated players and are nowhere near to be termed as World Class..

Philander averages 22 after almost 40 test matches. Those are ATG level stats and he has won a lot of matches too.

Even after accounting for his better performance on helpful pitches he has had a great time and the sample size is big enough. He'll walk into every international side

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

SA should have Vernon play Pakistan to boost up his stats even further.

 

[Slog]

Also people say Vernon is useless outside Saffer pitches but he's given performances everywhere including India and UAE

 

[Suleiman]

If they are purely swing conditions then Southee. Guy has done it in SL too.

Overall though Philander is better.

 

[Buffet]

Vern is a a fantastic bower and not sure how he can be overrated. Most PPers don't even rate him high despite him putting performances.

 

[Aman]

There isn't a comparison.

Philander is a world class bowler, Southee is not.

Both are overrated players and are nowhere near to be termed as World Class..

He's actually underrated, his performances away from home in far less favorable conditions is solid.

He's definitely world class.

 

[Buffet]

Vern's away average is 25 so it's not just about him doing well at home.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Philander is the better bowler.

 

[soso_killer]

Vern's away average is 25 so it's not just about him doing well at home.

Wow, those are world class numbers.
MoS in Australia, bowled well in India and UAE too.
Yes he has his limitations, but he's a good bowler and a big difference for the English tour last year.

 

[Buffet]

Wow, those are world class numbers.
MoS in Australia, bowled well in India and UAE too.
Yes he has his limitations, but he's a good bowler and a big difference for the English tour last year.

He has limitations, but he is underrated.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Both are overrated players and are nowhere near to be termed as World Class..

So Vernon is overrated with average of 22 and away average of 25.

Yet Amir is potential ATG with average of plus 30.

I see how Pakpassion works

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Vernon is actually very good.

World class bowler easily. Incredible stats too.

There was a big buzz about him a few years back.....now its subsided but it will be back soon enough.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

There isn't a comparison.

Philander is a world class bowler, Southee is not.

He's actually underrated, his performances away from home in far less favorable conditions is solid.

He's definitely world class.

lol wut....Southee is a world class bowler. Most teams would have him in their playing XI.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Ok I checked Southee's stats. Its not amazing.

Failed in Aus, SA and Eng - 3 places where a pacer must click.

I get Aman's point. But I find him as a threat whenever I watch him bowl.

 

[Bilal7]

Vernon is actually very good.

World class bowler easily. Incredible stats too.

There was a big buzz about him a few years back.....now its subsided but it will be back soon enough.

He was overrated back then because he was averaging ridiculously low but hadn't played away from South Africa. Now he's rated accurately, as a world-class player but not better than Steyn, Marshall, etc.

 

[ExplicitAI]

Vernon is a much better bowler, I'd like to see more of his batting side though considering he's an allrounder but so far he hasn't set the world on fire with his batting.

 

[Suleiman]

Love Philander's bowling action btw. Smooth and rhythmic.

 

[marlonbrowndo]

So Vernon is overrated with average of 22 and away average of 25.

Yet Amir is potential ATG with average of plus 30.

I see how Pakpassion works

He isn't a Pakistani. Why does Amir get dragged into every discussion?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

He isn't a Pakistani. Why does Amir get dragged into every discussion?

Because who manage to rate bowlers rate them on the basis of Amir.

Have a look at this thread.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/showthread.php?253249-We-are-going-to-get-demolished-in-Australia

Amir = Hazelwood according to a poster who claims he is Australian.

Lmao.

All these bowlers working tirelessly for years, yet Amir has a couple of drop catches and that's why he couldn't be up there.

Nonsense.

 

[Ab Fan]

So Vernon is overrated with average of 22 and away average of 25.

Yet Amir is potential ATG with average of plus 30.

I see how Pakpassion works

Well, both are at same level.I don't rate Amir too much although I agree with your last statement.

 

[Ab Fan]

I am not too sure of the PP love towards Philander but I still think he gets benefited a lot bowling alongside Steyn and now Rabadda( both really destructive bowlers who can do well on all kinds of wickets).

Quite like Morkel, he gets benefited bowling alongside Steyn and recently Rabadda(who has potential to become an ATG).Moreover, he struggles on flat pitches.

Philander won't be having these stats if played for some other teams and I dont consider him one of the best bowlers of his era either.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I am not too sure of the PP love towards Philander but I still think he gets benefited a lot bowling alongside Steyn and now Rabadda( both really destructive bowlers who can do well on all kinds of wickets).

Quite like Morkel, he gets benefited bowling alongside Steyn and recently Rabadda(who has potential to become an ATG).Moreover, he struggles on flat pitches.

Philander won't be having these stats if played for some other teams and I dont consider him one of the best bowlers of his era either.

He played a pivotal role in SA series win in Eng....SA series leveler in UAE.....SA series win in Aus this year....SA series wins in SA.

Morkel benefited from SA bowlers too and yet he averaged 30s....Philander's seam movement off the pitch can be (at times) harder to play than swing (Akash Chopra wrote a detailed article about that a few years back).

 

[angrypathan]

Philander, it's not even a comparison.

 

[Dios]

Philander is underrated due to his pace. He is world-class. Even at his pace he has a better SR than Wasim Akram, Glenn McGrath, Michael Holding to name a few.

 

[Dios]

I remember when Philander started his career people wrote him off because his pace and bowling style wasn't spectacular. Many said that he would fall off after the initial honeymoon period. But he is still here and is leading the South African pace attack, with Steyn's career on the brink of being over, and just helped SA win a series in Australia.

 

[Robert]

Philander by a long chalk. Southee is rather ovrr-rated here, IMO.

 

[Justcrazy]

Philander is better than Southee in both batting and bowling.

 

[volcyz]

Southee is extremely overrated

 

[JaDed]

Philander in any condition. I really like Southee though but he has been a let down in not swinging conditions.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Vernon predominantly a seam bowler with greater consistency.. I have seen him bowl more unplayable deliveries compared to Southee in a given test match. Southee at times can be very expensive and you can hit him out of the attack easily.

 

[Dark Magician]

On a helpful pitch Philander is beastly. On a dead pitch, he'll keep it tight and keep plugging away. Can southee do the same on a dead pitch? I'm not sure. I'm suprised people under-rated Vern. Is it because of his pace? I don't get it. Vern just won MOS in Aussie land yet people still bag him as padding his stats up. How?

 

[The_Odd_One]

Philander is by far a better bowler than Southee in all conditions. The thing with Southee is that he looks world class one day and then looks club level the next day.

 

[Mamoon]

Love Philander's bowling action btw. Smooth and rhythmic.

In my opinion, Boult has the most beautiful bowling action in the world. Anderson's action is great too, probably the second best at the moment.

I would put Boult right up there with Imran, Waqar and Bond as my all-time favorite bowling actions.

 

[Hawkeye]

Ok I checked Southee's stats. Its not amazing.

Failed in Aus, SA and Eng - 3 places where a pacer must click.

I get Aman's point. But I find him as a threat whenever I watch him bowl.

Southee mostly seams the ball, give him some grass and he'll wreak havoc.

Very good on seaming pitches. Pretty useless elsewhere.

 

[Justcrazy]

Vernon predominantly a seam bowler with greater consistency.. I have seen him bowl more unplayable deliveries compared to Southee in a given test match. Southee at times can be very expensive and you can hit him out of the attack easily.

Philander has more control , Southee has more pace . That is the reason.

 

[Snatch]

Lol Is this thread serious? Philander by a country mile.

 

[soso_killer]

I am not too sure of the PP love towards Philander but I still think he gets benefited a lot bowling alongside Steyn and now Rabadda( both really destructive bowlers who can do well on all kinds of wickets).

Quite like Morkel, he gets benefited bowling alongside Steyn and recently Rabadda(who has potential to become an ATG).Moreover, he struggles on flat pitches.

Philander won't be having these stats if played for some other teams and I dont consider him one of the best bowlers of his era either.

Steyn and Rabada don't benefit from the pressure created by Philander?

There's a reason SA dominated more after Vernon's debut. SA's bowling attack was virtually Steyn. A good example is the frustrating draw 1-1 against England in 2009. SA dominated about 3 of those 4 home Tests, yet the series read 1-1.
Morkel doesn't have a killer instinct and should be a squad player at best, we wasted years on him.
Our home record would be much much better had Vern been around 07/08.

He's added a lot of value. Line and length bowlers need a strike bowler to be effective. McGrath wouldn't have the same numbers either without Gillespie and Warne.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

In my opinion, Boult has the most beautiful bowling action in the world. Anderson's action is great too, probably the second best at the moment.

I would put Boult right up there with Imran, Waqar and Bond as my all-time favorite bowling actions.

No Amir there.

It could be argued by most, he has the perfect biomechanical action like others.

 

[khurram39]

Southee undoubtedly.......... conditions available even though philander took more wickets, southee has shown his class in wc2015 aus v nz

 

[Mamoon]

No Amir there.

It could be argued by most, he has the perfect biomechanical action like others.

His action might be technically perfect, but for me it is not aesthetically pleasing at all.