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[VIDEO #56] Pakistan head coach Mickey Arthur to remain Karachi Kings' coach - Conflict of interest?

Good Move by Karachi. With Gayle, Amir, Sangakarra, Imad, Babar, Bopara and Mickey they will def win this year. Just hope Malik isnt going to captain.
 
What is the conflict?

Pakistan don't play during the PSL and players are assigned to a team via a draft.
 
Convict said:
What is the conflict?

Pakistan don't play during the PSL and players are assigned to a team via a draft.
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He might have soft spots for youngsters and players from his franchise

and even if he tries to be professional its only natural that he will know KK youngsters better than from other cities so naturally they are at an advantage
 
MenInG said:
He's not the selector and he will not jeopardize his own Pak record by selecting someone who cant win the game for Pak
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he does have a big say in selection though
 
Don't think it is . . Selection is the job of Selectors . . and if there are deserving players from any franchise, and there is room in the squad . . then why not . .

I'd like to in fact put a positive spin on it! As Pakistan head coach, if he is so closely involved in the PSL . . that would be a golden opportunity to see PAkistan's bench strength from very close quarters . . which can only be good . .

The best thing Mickey Arthur is doing is making a pool of players that he would like to select for . . we have played like a thousand players in ODI cricket over the past few years . . thats not how you become a good team . . test team is good because we have played the same team for the most part over and over and over again . . tahts what needs to happen in LOI too . . and i think Mickey arther realizes that . .
 
NauV said:
Don't think it is . . Selection is the job of Selectors . . and if there are deserving players from any franchise, and there is room in the squad . . then why not . .

I'd like to in fact put a positive spin on it! As Pakistan head coach, if he is so closely involved in the PSL . . that would be a golden opportunity to see PAkistan's bench strength from very close quarters . . which can only be good . .

The best thing Mickey Arthur is doing is making a pool of players that he would like to select for . . we have played like a thousand players in ODI cricket over the past few years . . thats not how you become a good team . . test team is good because we have played the same team for the most part over and over and over again . . tahts what needs to happen in LOI too . . and i think Mickey arther realizes that . .
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Excellent post. Absolutely the case for us to look at the positives here. This means that even in his "off" time, Mickey will be in touch with Pakistan cricket
 
NauV said:
Don't think it is . . Selection is the job of Selectors . . and if there are deserving players from any franchise, and there is room in the squad . . then why not . .

I'd like to in fact put a positive spin on it! As Pakistan head coach, if he is so closely involved in the PSL . . that would be a golden opportunity to see PAkistan's bench strength from very close quarters . . which can only be good . .

The best thing Mickey Arthur is doing is making a pool of players that he would like to select for . . we have played like a thousand players in ODI cricket over the past few years . . thats not how you become a good team . . test team is good because we have played the same team for the most part over and over and over again . . tahts what needs to happen in LOI too . . and i think Mickey arther realizes that . .
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Very good Post!!!If we look in a a positive way it would help Pakistan cricket he would closely monitored the

player potential
 
Actually it will only benefit Pakistan.. ..mickey can himself get accustomed to the pakistani cricket environment and also can see many players...himself who might have the potential but are not given fare chances....eg hamad azam...amir yamin...ahmed butt... not to forget Gas as Alam.. .shahzaib and all
 
IIRC, didn't CSK and Dhoni have a similar issue?

The players that were picked from his franchise, those selections were being questioned.

So, this could potentially lead to a tricky situation, but it is up to Micky to show us all and prove he won't get into favouritism regarding selection.
 
Its a difficult situation.

Do teams allow their national coach to still continue coaching in domestic cricket? No because commitment needed is for full season.

But with a T20 league of a month's duration, with no other cricket being played and all the main Pakistani players playing in PSL, would you rather have the national coach actively involved or give him a month long paid leave?
 
This thread has just no point!!!

he is retained and not a newly signed coach for KK; he has got the idea of UAE pitches and the recent results are their to prove it....All of the franchises would be begging for Mickey and Wasim this time.
 
Misbah, Azhar and Sarfaraz also captained United, Qalandars and Gladiators respectively.

In fact PCB, and any other board, should engage their head coach into domestic competitions if he happens to be a foreigner.
 
ShoonyaSifar said:
Its a difficult situation.

Do teams allow their national coach to still continue coaching in domestic cricket? No because commitment needed is for full season.

But with a T20 league of a month's duration, with no other cricket being played and all the main Pakistani players playing in PSL, would you rather have the national coach actively involved or give him a month long paid leave?
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Second part is fine I think.

wrt first part, He was KK's coach in first place. Real conflict of interest is if PCB deprives KK from continuing with their first choice coach.

In any case, we never know (or we know it very well) how secure a job is at PCB.
 
Slog said:
Discuss?
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Oh now I get it,

It didn't work did it?
Nice try though,
maybe trying to make a future argument really have to praise the effort though,

But bear in mind Mickey is here for a long long term and he is on the verge of creating one of the fighting spirit Pak team,

by time people will forget what Waqar did or not but they all will remember Mickey and the progress he is going to make in future, people will clearly forget the insane argument that Waqar was the reason behind the progress,
 
My guess is that Arthur probably signed a long-term deal with Karachi and it would cost them a fortune to pay him off so they have to stick with him.
 
Will actually be good, he'll get to see some domestic players and their games and if he thinks they're good enough or not. Won't just rely on statistics.
 
Technically yes - he can favour players from his franchise. But, that's something which can happen in other ways. For example, at his pomp, MS (& Srini) was utmost powerful character in Indian cricket - 5 or 6 CSK players were sometimes in playing XI. It could be because of those players were genuinely best available, or it could be MS picked best available players for CSK or he was simply comfortable to have similar team. In football as well, there are examples of same coach taking charge of Club & Country.

I think, this was part of Arthur's contract that he'll be allowed to coach a PSL team. It's easy money for 4 weeks of circus show. As long as Inzi (CS) is strong, no issues. In fact, it can be benificiary as Arthur will be able to watch all the PAK players closely. Otherwise he probably would have spent the whole period on leave, back in Perth.
 
Saj said:
My guess is that Arthur probably signed a long-term deal with Karachi and it would cost them a fortune to pay him off so they have to stick with him.
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to be fair it will be hard for Mickey to ignore the domestic players which perform in the PSL who he doesn't get to see in the international setup usually.

Any youngster who has a good tournament for any of the 5 teams, it will be advantage to have Micky there noticing the performances in UAE.
 
No. On the contrary, I think it is better as he will be in touch with domestic players & will first hand witness to talent pool available.

Of course, you fears are not unwarranted. If this would have been a pakistani coach, favoritism would 100% come into play. But Mickey is different & even in his past jobs, has a reputation for being pretty straight forward.
 
It's actually awesome that he is involved. It will allow him to see many players closely and work with some of the best talents in the country.

Good job Mickey!
 
MMHS said:
Technically yes - he can favour players from his franchise. But, that's something which can happen in other ways. For example, at his pomp, MS (& Srini) was utmost powerful character in Indian cricket - 5 or 6 CSK players were sometimes in playing XI. It could be because of those players were genuinely best available, or it could be MS picked best available players for CSK or he was simply comfortable to have similar team. In football as well, there are examples of same coach taking charge of Club & Country.

I think, this was part of Arthur's contract that he'll be allowed to coach a PSL team. It's easy money for 4 weeks of circus show. As long as Inzi (CS) is strong, no issues. In fact, it can be benificiary as Arthur will be able to watch all the PAK players closely. Otherwise he probably would have spent the whole period on leave, back in Perth.
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A foreigner favouring some local players? I don't see that happening. Especially Mickey doesn't favour people he just wants the best available who also do not mind working hard for their place regardless of their status.
 
Prince of Pakistan said:
A foreigner favouring some local players? I don't see that happening. Especially Mickey doesn't favour people he just wants the best available who also do not mind working hard for their place regardless of their status.
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He can. Not saying, he'll.

But, he can pick couple of 50-50 players from KK. For example, say Fahim plays for KK, Yasmin for other team - he can suggest to CS that, among medium pacer all-rounder, he is looking for the stronger bowler. Make it opposite - he can ask for some one good at new ball.

In every squad, there are always 5/6 open spots, for which at lest 2 options are available - he can easily put his requirement favouring the KK player. Yamin, Anwar Ali, Aamad, Fahim & Hammad are players with individual strengths - even I can place my requirement to fit one of them.

This can be done with Nawaz, Gohar, Raja Hasan, Imad & Asghar.

Iftekhar, Adil Amin, Naved Yasin ... this can go for every spot, apart from few confirmed one.


Integrity is the issue here - otherwise, Arthur can pick 6/7 KK players in 14 men team and still can justify his choices. And, team's performance won't differ much as long as the core 7/8 players are there. Technically, this'll favour KK as the players will realize that playing for KK improves their chances for a National call.
 
Is there any precedence in international cricket before this that a coach is head coach of a national team and a domestic team at the same time?
 
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both coach and captain have equal say in selection where primary role belongs to chief selector but he also takes into account coach and captains choices. So if national captain can play such a league without being questioned for his integrity then its a no brainer to question the coach.

As most of you have said that its actually going to be beneficial.. so lets not try to find flaws in something unnecessarily.
 
Wouldn't this apply to Sarfraz, Azhar, Misbah as they have a somewhat say in team combinations?

Should not look too much into this. Mickey is a professional coach, will end up as the best coach of Pakistan.
 
Answer in his interview

PakPassion.net : There have been some murmurs about a possible conflict of interest in terms of you being a coach for Pakistan and the PSL side Karachi Kings. How do you respond to that?

Mickey Arthur : There is no truth in that at all and let me put a few things on the table on this issue. Before I signed the contract with Pakistan I was contracted to be with the Karachi Kings for the whole season. So, talking purely commercially, that was my contract arrangement with Pakistan that I could work with Karachi Kings as well and financially speaking, that was good for me. In terms of any conflict of interest, I am way more professional for people to think that I am going to be favouring anybody from Karachi Kings or anyone else in my Pakistan role. I am certainly too professional to ever contemplate that. I, therefore, am going to knock any such notion on the head straightaway. The really positive thing in this arrangement is that it allows me to see all the best young Pakistan players up close. If I wasn’t involved in the PSL and was sitting at home or watching television during that period, then I wouldn’t get to see these young guys in action up close. For me this is not only a great opportunity to see the young talent of Pakistan but also to work with these players. I think this is a win-win situation for everyone and in my opinion there is certainly no conflict of interest involved. -

See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ones-quot-Mickey-Arthur&p=8935918#post8935918
 
Am not sure what this alleged conflict of interest would be to begin with, anyhow decent response from Mickey in regards to those whom are hoping he fails or are just waiting like vultures to make an issue out of nothing because their golden boy is back in the commentary box
 
how people dont see a conflict of interest here is beyond me
 
MenInG said:
Answer in his interview

PakPassion.net : There have been some murmurs about a possible conflict of interest in terms of you being a coach for Pakistan and the PSL side Karachi Kings. How do you respond to that?

Mickey Arthur : There is no truth in that at all and let me put a few things on the table on this issue. Before I signed the contract with Pakistan I was contracted to be with the Karachi Kings for the whole season. So, talking purely commercially, that was my contract arrangement with Pakistan that I could work with Karachi Kings as well and financially speaking, that was good for me. In terms of any conflict of interest, I am way more professional for people to think that I am going to be favouring anybody from Karachi Kings or anyone else in my Pakistan role. I am certainly too professional to ever contemplate that. I, therefore, am going to knock any such notion on the head straightaway. The really positive thing in this arrangement is that it allows me to see all the best young Pakistan players up close. If I wasn’t involved in the PSL and was sitting at home or watching television during that period, then I wouldn’t get to see these young guys in action up close. For me this is not only a great opportunity to see the young talent of Pakistan but also to work with these players. I think this is a win-win situation for everyone and in my opinion there is certainly no conflict of interest involved. -

See more at: http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...ones-quot-Mickey-Arthur&p=8935918#post8935918
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Not much of an answer

Basically he is saying that he is too professional for it to be an issue. So we are supposed to take his word here.

Generally a situation such as this shouldnt even be allowed to arise for there to be a possible conflict of interest
 
IIRC dravid had to give up coaching IPL franchise because of same conflict.
 
There are 3 options here -

1. Buy out his KK contract (from KK) and compensate him. And, make sure that he doesn’t sign for any such PLs & SLs

2. Sack him and appoint someone who would be dedicated to PCT for 12 months round (can do it both ways - appoint a novice who has no sell value at PLs & SLs across globe OR pay someone qualified sweet enough so that he doesn’t bother for PLs & SLs)

3. Keep tight lips and try to make sure that his KK attachment doesn’t hurt PCT.

I think, we know what PCB opted .....
 
MMHS said:
There are 3 options here -

1. Buy out his KK contract (from KK) and compensate him. And, make sure that he doesn’t sign for any such PLs & SLs

2. Sack him and appoint someone who would be dedicated to PCT for 12 months round (can do it both ways - appoint a novice who has no sell value at PLs & SLs across globe OR pay someone qualified sweet enough so that he doesn’t bother for PLs & SLs)

3. Keep tight lips and try to make sure that his KK attachment doesn’t hurt PCT.

I think, we know what PCB opted .....
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Well few months ago in an interview when he was asked same Q,
He said that it is clearly stated in his contract with PCB that he will be allowed to Coach Karachi Kings in PSL
 
Slog said:
how people dont see a conflict of interest here is beyond me
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This. The lack of knowledge on “conflict of interest” majorly among the desis is beyond me. From IPL1, I have been shouting on top of my lungs that there is massive conflict of interests in IPL particularly with Chennai Super Kings but no one understood me. It took 7 seasons of IPL for people to realize the conflict of interest. As a matter of fact, in my opinion, Indian captain should not be a captian of an IPL team. BUt again it will take years to realize why my point is valid.
 
rahulrulezz said:
This. The lack of knowledge on “conflict of interest” majorly among the desis is beyond me. From IPL1, I have been shouting on top of my lungs that there is massive conflict of interests in IPL particularly with Chennai Super Kings but no one understood me. It took 7 seasons of IPL for people to realize the conflict of interest. As a matter of fact, in my opinion, Indian captain should not be a captian of an IPL team. BUt again it will take years to realize why my point is valid.
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But then any national can't be captain of any domestic side or it will be conflict of interest.
 
Conflict of interest exists but I haven't seen Mickey push for his KK boys in the team so much...well maybe Usman Khan but it's not like he was selected over other deserving players. Ideally, KK should not renew Mickey's contract. I think when he accepted the Pakistan job he brought up this KK issue and PCB made it work. Azhar Mahmood shouldn't be KK coach as well.
 
The good thing about him coaching in the PSL is that he can see the talent up close and personal. So he can decide who he would like in the national side as he doesn't watch domestic cricket.
 
Hasan123 said:
The good thing about him coaching in the PSL is that he can see the talent up close and personal. So he can decide who he would like in the national side as he doesn't watch domestic cricket.
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He can still do this if he isn't head coach of a team. In my opinion, he shouldn't be allowed to renew his contract with KK. He should be allowed into every teams training session, he can view talent up close this way.
 
rahulrulezz said:
This. The lack of knowledge on “conflict of interest” majorly among the desis is beyond me. From IPL1, I have been shouting on top of my lungs that there is massive conflict of interests in IPL particularly with Chennai Super Kings but no one understood me. It took 7 seasons of IPL for people to realize the conflict of interest. As a matter of fact, in my opinion, Indian captain should not be a captian of an IPL team. BUt again it will take years to realize why my point is valid.
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You don't have to be the captain of the side to favour players of your franchise. An experienced player and an Indian captain, does not need to be a captain to pick or favour players from his franchise. If thats the the case National captains cannot be captains of their state side either. Do you actually think conflict of interest applies only to franchise cricket? In that case all the Indian captain's and Vice Captain's of various formats should resign their posts in Domestic teams/IPL franchise. Even if you are talking about the player management company involved, that would have been a conflict of interest even if IPL was not involved.
 
sshakir411 said:
Conflict of interest exists but I haven't seen Mickey push for his KK boys in the team so much...well maybe Usman Khan but it's not like he was selected over other deserving players. Ideally, KK should not renew Mickey's contract. I think when he accepted the Pakistan job he brought up this KK issue and PCB made it work. Azhar Mahmood shouldn't be KK coach as well.
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Forget conflict of interest. KK shouldnt renew Mickey's contract based on results only lol.

He has been an unmitigated disaster
 
Hasan123 said:
The good thing about him coaching in the PSL is that he can see the talent up close and personal. So he can decide who he would like in the national side as he doesn't watch domestic cricket.
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As a coach he should be doing that anyway. And he can do that with a more critical eye because he wont have a personal stake in the game as much

Besides he should be looking at FC and LA matches than just PSL which ppl would watch anyway

he is neither doing justice to Karachi Kings nor to PCT by being a mercenary and grabbing whatever check he can get his hands on
 
Slog said:
As a coach he should be doing that anyway. And he can do that with a more critical eye because he wont have a personal stake in the game as much

Besides he should be looking at FC and LA matches than just PSL which ppl would watch anyway

he is neither doing justice to Karachi Kings nor to PCT by being a mercenary and grabbing whatever check he can get his hands on
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I don't care if he coaches KK or not . I was just trying to turn it into a positive.

How can he watch our domestic cricket when he is on tours?
 
Its not an ideal situation but Arthur's arrangement with Karachi Kings predates his appointment as coach of the national team. The best solution is to allow Arthur to run out his contract with Karachi as I doubt the franchise will remove him due to the expense.

These conflicts happen often in cricket where a domestic team captain is also a national team captain.

So far he has not shown any bias or favouritism towards Karachi players, and any Karachi players who've made it to the national team like Usman Shinwari proved themselves there on merit. If it was a less professional coach then it would be a more serious concern.
 
Nothing wrong with this at all, will give him an opportunity to be close to the domestic cricketers
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mickey Arthur "what sort of question is that?" when he was asked if there is a conflict of interest in him coaching both Pakistan and Karachi Kings <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PSL2018?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PSL2018</a> <a href="https://t.co/CVfkpJobk5">pic.twitter.com/CVfkpJobk5</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/976565199175081984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 21, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Abdullah719 said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mickey Arthur "what sort of question is that?" when he was asked if there is a conflict of interest in him coaching both Pakistan and Karachi Kings <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PSL2018?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PSL2018</a> <a href="https://t.co/CVfkpJobk5">pic.twitter.com/CVfkpJobk5</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/976565199175081984?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 21, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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agree there is no conflict of interest; remember he is a coach he is not a selector
 
Saj said:
Good response from Mickey lol.
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Pretty poor response. Seems to lose the plot because he knows the bitter truth

Only thing he is concerned about is collecting as many paychecks as possible.
 
Slog said:
Pretty poor response. Seems to lose the plot because he knows the bitter truth

Only thing he is concerned about is collecting as many paychecks as possible.
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His response was better than the question lol.

It's not his call regarding coaching KK, PCB, PSL organisers and KK owners must be happy with it and it's not something Mickey can control.
 
The precedent this sets is an issue, especially if we get an entitled ex Pakistan player as coach of a franchise and Pakistan.
 
Hilarious that people are unhappy with Mickey. He's proven that he's the right man..although he's made some doubtful calls at times but that's a non issue in the larger scheme of things. Mickey is not afraid of taking the danda out on the players. He does praise the boys but he also goes hard on them and that's obvious to anyone whose seen him operate.

It's unfair from the fans to expect a coach to come in to our dysfunctional system and fix issues piece by piece...that is a time consuming process and honestly a very expensive one. Even Pakistani legends like Waqar, Miandad, and Inzi have failed to do that.

Mickey's formula has worked for Pakistan cricket...he understands the strengths and has been reasonably successful in curbing the weaknesses. He's also had to deal with outside issues that have been a cancer to our cricket for the longest...things like nepotism, fixing scandals, seniority, zero organization, and utter shi* churned out by our media (the reporter asking him about a conflict of interest sounded like someone who didn't even know what it meant).

If Mickey is given the bunch of players he needs and allowed to play the team he wants with Sarfraz..we will see a very dangerous Pakistan team.
 
sshakir411 said:
Hilarious that people are unhappy with Mickey. He's proven that he's the right man..although he's made some doubtful calls at times but that's a non issue in the larger scheme of things. Mickey is not afraid of taking the danda out on the players. He does praise the boys but he also goes hard on them and that's obvious to anyone whose seen him operate.

It's unfair from the fans to expect a coach to come in to our dysfunctional system and fix issues piece by piece...that is a time consuming process and honestly a very expensive one. Even Pakistani legends like Waqar, Miandad, and Inzi have failed to do that.

Mickey's formula has worked for Pakistan cricket...he understands the strengths and has been reasonably successful in curbing the weaknesses. He's also had to deal with outside issues that have been a cancer to our cricket for the longest...things like nepotism, fixing scandals, seniority, zero organization, and utter shi* churned out by our media (the reporter asking him about a conflict of interest sounded like someone who didn't even know what it meant).

If Mickey is given the bunch of players he needs and allowed to play the team he wants with Sarfraz..we will see a very dangerous Pakistan team.
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Excellently said. It is not an ideal situation to be holding two jobs but his track record with Pakistan's national team has shown he has not shown any excess favouritism or bias to Karachi players. He has been the only coach in recent memory to wield the danda against underperforming seniors and has blooded youngsters into our LOI teams that were tottering at 9th and 7th in ODI and T20 rankings when he took over.
 
pakistanigoneaussie said:
The precedent this sets is an issue, especially if we get an entitled ex Pakistan player as coach of a franchise and Pakistan.
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I fail to see how a proven international coach that won us the Champions Trophy having a franchise coaching spot on merit is meant to be equated to the likes of Basit Ali doing so, minus the merit...
 
HuzaifaE said:
I fail to see how a proven international coach that won us the Champions Trophy having a franchise coaching spot on merit is meant to be equated to the likes of Basit Ali doing so, minus the merit...
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You would know how awful some of our ex players are and at the same time how gutless the PCB can be.
 
pakistanigoneaussie said:
You would know how awful some of our ex players are and at the same time how gutless the PCB can be.
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Granted, however that's independent for the most part of Mickey and his merited coaching spot. Point should be that no one is entitled, everything is merited, including both coaching positions, franchise and national side. I understand your rightful concerns at PCB level, but it's harsh on Mickey to say that's setting the wrong precedence.
 
Markhor said:
Excellently said. It is not an ideal situation to be holding two jobs but his track record with Pakistan's national team has shown he has not shown any excess favouritism or bias to Karachi players. He has been the only coach in recent memory to wield the danda against underperforming seniors and has blooded youngsters into our LOI teams that were tottering at 9th and 7th in ODI and T20 rankings when he took over.
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He took over when ODI team was at #8 or #7 I believe.... Great job bringing them to #6 or so

What's worse is that when he took over Test team was on the cusp of #1. Now it's #7. Embarassing

He ought to be ashamed at himself. If he spent more time working for the national team rather than looking for the next contract maybe our stock wouldn't be this low
 
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Slog said:
He took over when ODI team was at #8 or #7 I believe.... Great job bringing them to #6 or so

What's worse is that when he took over Test team was on the cusp of #1. Now it's #7. Embarassing

He ought to be ashamed at himself. If he spent more time working for the national team rather than looking for the next contract maybe our stock wouldn't be this low
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Look, I understand you may not like Mickey. But what are some of the specific instances that make you think he's not the right coach for Pakistan?

There's one ghissi pitti argument on PP that he didn't play a 2nd spinner and he doesn't know how to use spinners or whatever....there might be some merit in that argument but it's a minor issue given we have a bowling coach who should be stepping up in such cases. What other absurd things has he done?

We've lost some bad games that we shouldn't have but we've also won the CT and improved our fielding and team balance. Rankings alone cannot be the determining factor of Mickey's success since coaching/strategy are supporting factors in cricket. The players need to deliver on the field first and Pakistani players are inconsistent.

Mickey has backed the right players like...and doesn't come in with the bias of ex Pakistani coaches like Waqar who favored one player over the other. I don't want this to be a Waqar vs Mickey thread since I actually think Waqar was better than anyone at the time but he too had horrible losses.
 
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Slog said:
He took over when ODI team was at #8 or #7 I believe.... Great job bringing them to #6 or so

What's worse is that when he took over Test team was on the cusp of #1. Now it's #7. Embarassing

He ought to be ashamed at himself. If he spent more time working for the national team rather than looking for the next contract maybe our stock wouldn't be this low
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No, we were 9th in the ODI rankings when Arthur took over. He inherited a team that was devoid of any direction or vision; whose predecessor's idea of a "dynamic" top four was Ahmed Shehzad, Azhar Ali, Bilal Asif and Mohammad Hafeez; that shelled an ODI to Zimbabwe and got Banglawashed; and were struggling to qualify for the 2019 WC.

We are now 6th, with an ODI team by no means perfect but rejuvenated after blooding several youngsters with a promising future (with a few seniors hanging on but soon out the door) and with an ICC trophy in the bag. In the space of a year we achieved a #1 Test ranking, 50 over tournament trophy, and #1 T20 ranking. If you don't think that's progress then I don't know what is.

As for Tests, Arthur has had to oversee a tricky transition over several tough tours to places like Australia where we always struggle and New Zealand who are rampant at home, having just bowled England out for 58. Losing Younis and Misbah has meant the loss of a stable Test middle-order but will take time to rebuild. Given Arthur's track record of identifying youngsters, there's no reason to believe he can't find replacements and turn the ship around.
 
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Saj said:
His response was better than the question lol.

It's not his call regarding coaching KK, PCB, PSL organisers and KK owners must be happy with it and it's not something Mickey can control.
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It was a defensive response because he knows that he is in the wrong. There is definately conflict of interest here. Inzi should also not be involved with Lahore. These ppl are just so money hungry it seems.
 
Markhor said:
No, we were 9th in the ODI rankings when Arthur took over. He inherited a team that was devoid of any direction or vision; whose predecessor's idea of a "dynamic" top four was Ahmed Shehzad, Azhar Ali, Bilal Asif and Mohammad Hafeez; that shelled an ODI to Zimbabwe and got Banglawashed; and were struggling to qualify for the 2019 WC.

We are now 6th, with an ODI team by no means perfect but rejuvenated after blooding several youngsters with a promising future (with a few seniors hanging on but soon out the door) and with an ICC trophy in the bag. In the space of a year we achieved a #1 Test ranking, 50 over tournament trophy, and #1 T20 ranking. If you don't think that's progress then I don't know what is.

As for Tests, Arthur has had to oversee a tricky transition over several tough tours to places like Australia where we always struggle and New Zealand who are rampant at home, having just bowled England out for 58. Losing Younis and Misbah has meant the loss of a stable Test middle-order but will take time to rebuild. Given Arthur's track record of identifying youngsters, there's no reason to believe he can't find replacements and turn the ship around.
Click to expand...

Excuses...excuses...excuses...And you know it!

Whats your excuse for getting whitewashed at home to pathetic Sri Lanka and shelling tests to #8 West Indies?
 
sshakir411 said:
Look, I understand you may not like Mickey. But what are some of the specific instances that make you think he's not the right coach for Pakistan?

There's one ghissi pitti argument on PP that he didn't play a 2nd spinner and he doesn't know how to use spinners or whatever....there might be some merit in that argument but it's a minor issue given we have a bowling coach who should be stepping up in such cases. What other absurd things has he done?
Click to expand...

Its not a ghissi pitti argument. His absolute lack of understanding is the reason why we have lost THREE CONSECUTIVE TESTS in UAE to pathetic West Indies and Sri Lanka. First time ever we lost a home series in UAE since we moved there. Embarassing. And worse than making the tactical blunder was to repeat it incessantly. So please do not try to downplay or understate it. He is the head coach and he should take responsibility. That alone is unforgivable. Along with being earlier remembered for being the coach of a team which conceded the most runs ever in an ODI match, he is also the coach of the first Pakistani team to lose a series held in UAE.

Asides from this. He has TOTALLY bungled the Test batting lineup. Its ridiculous how flaky he has been in that regard. A case in point is his handling of Babar Azam in Tests and how Asad Shafiq under him has totally disintegrated to look like a tailender. When Arthur took over he stuck him at his spot at #6. But eventually he said he deserves to bat up and everyone agreed. So he put him at #3. Upon his move up he did well in the Oval Test (came one number later due to nightwatchman) and then played against WI in UAE. Did ok in first but then batted poorly. However showing absolutely no trust he demoted him back to #6 despite no evidence of a long term failure at that position. And at same time he bungled up Babar's introduction to the Test team. Arthur has been playing musical chairs with both batsmen for almost two years now.

There are other examples as well.

However you know what is most damning. That TWO YEARS later, Arthur and also his fans have to keep referring to the previous coach and his tenure in order to deflect his failings and obfuscate the argument. Tells everything! Arthur has been Pakistan coach for almost as long as Waqar's whole tenure now!
 
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King-Misbah said:
It was a defensive response because he knows that he is in the wrong. There is definately conflict of interest here. Inzi should also not be involved with Lahore. These ppl are just so money hungry it seems.
Click to expand...

He's not in the wrong at all.

If anyone is in the wrong, it's the people who have given him the job at KK and/or the PCB for allowing it to happen.
 
Saj said:
He's not in the wrong at all.

If anyone is in the wrong, it's the people who have given him the job at KK and/or the PCB for allowing it to happen.
Click to expand...

There is no Conflict of Interest at all. In fact this is beneficial as it allows him to be close to our domestic players. If he was unfavorably favoring players from his Franchise in the Pakistani team as a coach then valid question marks could be raised?

It is a grey area tho, people say he has a soft spot for Imad but then again he is very tough on Sohail Khan so hard to accuse him of much bias.
 
Saj said:
He's not in the wrong at all.

If anyone is in the wrong, it's the people who have given him the job at KK and/or the PCB for allowing it to happen.
Click to expand...



Why don't you share 3-4 other examples of a coach of a national team also having his hand in another bowl at a domestic team or a franchise?

Mickey Arthur is the first one I know... There's a reason it doesn't happen... There's a reason why Rahul Dravid left his IPL gig when he became India U19 coach. And here we have Arthur being head of Pakistan senior national team
 
Slog said:
Why don't you share 3-4 other examples of a coach of a national team also having his hand in another bowl at a domestic team or a franchise?

Mickey Arthur is the first one I know... There's a reason it doesn't happen... There's a reason why Rahul Dravid left his IPL gig when he became India U19 coach. And here we have Arthur being head of Pakistan senior national team
Click to expand...

I don't think you are getting the point. If Mickey Arthur has 2 jobs, or 8 jobs in Pakistan cricket, it's not his fault or his problem - it's down to those people who are giving him the jobs.
 
Saj said:
I don't think you are getting the point. If Mickey Arthur has 2 jobs, or 8 jobs in Pakistan cricket, it's not his fault or his problem - it's down to those people who are giving him the jobs.
Click to expand...

Ok I get it now I think. We shouldn't expect any moral responsibility or sincerity from him since he will try to get as much money as he can regardless of whether he can do justice to his jobs..
 
Which players has he isolated in favour of his Karachi boys ? to the point where Pakistan has suffered drastically due to those recommendations, there is certainly a conflict of interest because he is bound to have more of an affiliation with players who can make an impression up close, same way how you get employed just because you know someone but that doesn't always necessarily mean that the recommended selections were not on merit. At the same time Mickey is professional enough to recommend those who show they have what it takes at the international level, he was speaking highly of Shaeen Shah recently and said that it is important we get him in our set up asap.

We do have a new team so are still finding our feat so early losses are expected but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be criticised but it is important to understand that and be a bit patient. What Misbah built took years of hard work and playing the system and coaching Pakistan is the toughest coaching job in the world. It hurt really bad to lose our record in the UAE but we've invested in Mickey and am happy with him moving forward, we've had some positive results as well under him plus he has shown a lot of courage when it comes to our overall combo, he has the right ideas in mind with regards to modern cricket so we will see, those unhappy would you seriously have him fired , what are the alternatives ?
 
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