[VIDEO] Attempts of Muslim genocide in India could lead to civil war: Naseeruddin Shah

[MenInG]

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Bollywood actor Naseeruddin Shah is addressing the recent call for Muslim genocide in India. Leaders of several far-right Hindu groups have called for ethnic cleansing of minorities in India, particularly the country's 200 million Muslim community.

Shah, in an interview with The Wire, without mincing words, shared if the situation comes to what Hindu leaders have been instigating, Muslims in India will fight back. The actor also commented on what is it like to be a Muslim in Modi's India.

“If it comes to the crunch, we [Muslims] will fight back… If it comes to that [ethnic cleansing], we will," Shah retorted. "We are defending our homes, our family, our children.” Shah went on to remark, "Muslims are being marginalised and made redundant. They are in the process of being reduced to second-class citizens” and added, “It’s happening in every field.”

He also shared his views on members of the Dharam Sansad, who 10 days ago in Haridwar, called for genocide and ethnic cleansing. He said, “I wonder if they know what they are talking about? 200 million are going to fight back. We belong here. We were born here and we will live here.” Shah added it could potentially lead to 'civil war.'"

The award-winning actor also commented, "A concerted attempt is being made to make Muslims insecure. It’s an attempt to make us scared.” However, he added, “We should not be scared. I don’t feel insecure because this is my home. I’m concerned about what will become of my children”.

Backstory:

A three-day ‘hate speech conclave’ was organised by the controversial Hindutva leader Yati Narsinghanand from December 17 to 19 in Haridwar city of India’s Uttarakhand state, according to The Quint.

speaker Sadhvi Annapurna, general secretary of the Hindu Mahasabha [Hindu Grand Assembly], called for the ethnic cleansing of Muslims living in the country, according to The Wire.

"Nothing is possible without weapons. If you want to eliminate their population then kill them. Be ready to kill and be ready to go to jail. Even if 100 of us are ready to kill 20 lakhs [two million] of them [Muslims], then we will be victorious, and go to jail," Annapurna said.

 

[offstump]

Any Indian who downplays or denies that their country is fast descending into a fascist, racist state is delusional at this point. Time for moderate Indians (if there are any left) to raise their voices.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

"Nothing is possible without weapons. If you want to eliminate their population then kill them. Be ready to kill and be ready to go to jail. Even if 100 of us are ready to kill 20 lakhs [two million] of them [Muslims], then we will be victorious, and go to jail," Annapurna said.

Is this sort of hate mongering allowed in India?

 

[LaLoco]

Is this sort of hate mongering allowed in India?

Recently it seem, it is, but it is more subtle, in the form, such as, "Islam was obliterated from Spain", "minority appeasement", "Aurangzeb", you get the point.

 

[Kroll]

Is this sort of hate mongering allowed in India?

Yes, but not from minorities.

 

[PakLFC]

India is on the path of a genocide and civil war. Indian's in denial will live to regret it if the don't heed the warning of sane people. Every day Muslim's and Christian's are being beaten up or abused one way or another. Just a matter of time before the whole thing implodes.

 

[Bewal Express]

The Ind Muslims spend their lives proclaiming their loyalty to a country where the PM is actively looking to turn them into 3rd class citizens. They better be quick before its too late. They are lucky that our media cells haven't used on these deep fault lines to cause havoc in Ind, this is in contrast to Ind cells going on all platforms to cause havoc in PK. The reason for this is because we know millions of innocent lives would be lost if Ind slides into anarchy.

 

[MenInG]

The Ind Muslims spend their lives proclaiming their loyalty to a country where the PM is actively looking to turn them into 3rd class citizens. They better be quick before its too late. They are lucky that our media cells haven't used on these deep fault lines to cause havoc in Ind, this is in contrast to Ind cells going on all platforms to cause havoc in PK. The reason for this is because we know millions of innocent lives would be lost if Ind slides into anarchy.

What options do they have?

 

[MenInG]

I fear for the life of Naseeruddin Shah.

 

[Bewal Express]

What options do they have?

I am not sure, but the Ind Muslims in the media have put career before lives. I think it's too late, from all reports of people that have gone to Ind in recent times, things are looking very bleak. The Hindutuva have always been around, it was their adherents that killed Gandhi, but it looks like a country that has been groomed to see Ind Muslims as the enemy. No doubt it will win elections but at what cost. The more they hate on the Muslims, the more they will marginalise, they more they marginalise, they more Foreign they will look and no country can have 20% of its population treated as the new untouchables.
It needs all prominent Ind Muslims to send an open letter to the PM and put him on the spot. Off course they won't, they won't have the courage to face the Hindutuva backlash but history will note it.

 

[Lego20]

What a stupid (political) reaction to a more stupid (political) hate conclave. The smarter thing for him would be to say:
"I am sure the law enforcement authorities have seen the hate conclave footage and will take due action as per the law".

Even better, he should register an FIR against the organizers and speakers at the event.

What he does? Civil war, fight, second class (no citation/proof of it) incitement etc.

 

[Lego20]

Doesnt help to interview this with Karan Thapar (of all the people). Also that he equates Moguls to refugees! Intellectual dishonesty of the highest order.

 

[Pakpak]

What a stupid (political) reaction to a more stupid (political) hate conclave. The smarter thing for him would be to say:
"I am sure the law enforcement authorities have seen the hate conclave footage and will take due action as per the law".

Even better, he should register an FIR against the organizers and speakers at the event.

What he does? Civil war, fight, second class (no citation/proof of it) incitement etc.

Yes ofcourse. BJP is known for protecting minorities and taking action on hate speech

 

[Bewal Express]

What a stupid (political) reaction to a more stupid (political) hate conclave. The smarter thing for him would be to say:
"I am sure the law enforcement authorities have seen the hate conclave footage and will take due action as per the law".

Even better, he should register an FIR against the organizers and speakers at the event.

What he does? Civil war, fight, second class (no citation/proof of it) incitement etc.

Off course the Nicey nicey approach has worked well so far. You guys have been groomed by the Hindutuva to hating Muslims and nothing will change that. As I said you are lucky that we aren't playing the game you are playing
A few fake accounts with a few fake videos and Ind could be ablaze.

 

[Lego20]

Off course the Nicey nicey approach has worked well so far. You guys have been groomed by the Hindutuva to hating Muslims and nothing will change that. As I said you are lucky that we aren't playing the game you are playing
A few fake accounts with a few fake videos and Ind could be ablaze.

Talking about hate, read your own post.

As on topic, I have said that hate conclave was outrageous and condemnable. Law and judiciary need to be upheld and relevant charges levied on the perpetrators.

 

[Lego20]

Yes ofcourse. BJP is known for protecting minorities and taking action on hate speech

Well, the first thing to do is to file an FIR and see how it goes. In fact, I looked up and it seems it has already been filed:
https://www.india.com/news/india/ha...on-demands-action-against-organisers-5153154/

Haridwar ‘Hate Speech Conclave’: FIR Filed After Massive Outrage; Opposition Demands Action Against Organisers

Haridwar Dharm Sansad: The event was organised by Yati Narasimhanand Giri of the Juna Akhada at Ved Niketan Dham in Haridwar. For the unversed, Giri is already under the police scanner for making hate speeches and inciting violence.
Updated: December 24, 2021 11:25 AM IST
By India.com News DeskEdited by Surabhi ShauryaFollow
Haridwar 'Hate Speech Conclave': FIR Filed After Massive Outrage; Opposition Demands Action Against Organisers
(A screengrab from the viral video)
New Delhi: After massive outrage on social media, an FIR has been filed in connection with the hate speeches at the controversial Dharm Sansad (religious conclave) in Haridwar. Videos from the event (held from December 17 to 20) that have been doing rounds on social media showed participating seers making multiple provocative speeches against a community. The event was organised by Yati Narasimhanand Giri of the Juna Akhada at Ved Niketan Dham in Haridwar. For the unversed, Giri is already under the police scanner for making hate speeches and inciting violence.Also Read - 'Open Call For Murder Of An Entire Community', 76 Supreme Court Lawyers Write to CJI Ramana Over Haridwar-Delhi 'Dharm Sansad' Row

Uttarakhand Police Swings Into Action
The FIR was filed against Jitender Narayan Tyagi alias Waseem Rizvi on the basis of a complaint by Trinamool Congress leader and RTI activist Saket Gokhale. The FIR claimed that the former chairman of the Shia Waqf Board and others have given “derogatory and inflammatory statements against Islam” at the event. Also Read - Another Rebellion in Congress Ahead of Polls? 'My Hands And Legs Have Been Tied', Harish Rawat's Cryptic Tweet Raises Eyebrows

“Taking cognizance of the video that is going viral on social media for spreading hatred by giving provocative speeches against a particular religion, a case has been registered against Wasim Rizvi alias Jitendra Narayan Tyagi and others under Section 153A IPC in Kotwali Haridwar and legal proceedings are in progress,” the Uttarakhand police tweeted. Also Read - All You Need to Know Haridwar's Hidden Gem, Pilibhit House


Opposition Leaders Condemn ‘Hate Speech Conclave’
Several Opposition leaders, including those from the Congress and the TMC, condemned what they said was a “hate speech conclave” held in Haridwar recently and called for strict action against those involved.

Reacting to the remarks at the Haridwar meet, senior Congress leader Shashi Tharoor said, “This is bloodcurdling stuff. Is it too much to expect. @CMuttarakhand to take action under the existing hate-speech laws?” Congress MP Karti Chidambaram said on Twitter, “Narsinghanand Organises 3-Day Hate Speech Conclave in Haridwar… are the Faux Hindutva Nazis planning a holocaust? Will the Union of India & its institutions be a blind/mute spectator?”

Congress spokesperson Shama Mohammed said Munawar Faruqui has been relentlessly punished for alleged jokes which he didn’t even crack, but there is no action against the ‘Dharm Sansad’ members who openly called for “genocide against Muslims in Haridwar!”. “Is India still a democracy!” she said. Kishenganj MP of the Congress Mohammad Jawaid tweeted, “Appalled by the nature of the assembly and hate speech propagated openly in Haridwar. Such events are destroying the secular ethos of India.”

He urged Home Minister Amit Shah to take serious and urgent action against the people who were involved in the “implied calls for genocide of Muslims”. Chhattisgarh minister and senior party leader T S Singhdeo said India’s traditional value is — ‘Vasudhaiv Kutumbhkam – World is a Family’.

“Our Constitutional value is Secularism – Respect for all religions. Our primary Fundamental Right is Right to equality. Such bigoted thoughts & assemblies are against the foundation of India. This is criminal!” he said reacting to the remarks made at the meet. Gaurav Pandhi, a Congress functionary, said that in Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s “‘New India’, sponsored by Ambani & Adani, Comedians are prevented from making people laugh but Hindutwavadis are allowed to give hate speeches, calling for genocide and armed revolt against the nation”.

 

[ElRaja]

indian muslims paying the price for believing any mainstream political party would stand up for them. they need their own political representation, someone who can hold those in power answerable.

long term indian muslims need to become a demographic majority in at least one state, otherwise they are gonna get picked off (politically, socially and economically) by the hindu right one by one.

 

[Bewal Express]

Talking about hate, read your own post.

As on topic, I have said that hate conclave was outrageous and condemnable. Law and judiciary need to be upheld and relevant charges levied on the perpetrators.

What did I write that was hateful. All you guys look for denial, you are missing the elephant in the room.

 

[Technics 1210]

We all know what happened to Modi after Gujrat; he was banned from entering the USA and UK.

It will not be long before the Hindutva ideology is declared a terrorist right-wing regime by the West, and rightly banned too.

 

[Bewal Express]

Well, the first thing to do is to file an FIR and see how it goes. In fact, I looked up and it seems it has already been filed:
https://www.india.com/news/india/ha...on-demands-action-against-organisers-5153154/

This is just topi drama. People have been murdered in broad daylight for transporting cows, this isn't going to give these thugs any sleepless nights.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I fear for the life of Naseeruddin Shah.

Many options. They are 200 million.

They should go on strike, this will alone damage India's economy badly.

Other measures include using a poltical voice, uniting with non-extremist Hindu's, Sikhs and Christians to show their worry of Hindutva extremism.

Finally self defence is a universal human right.

BJP members and RSS are calling for cleansing of Muslims. Remember BJP is the official government. They want Hindus to buy 1 lakh worth of weapons each!

 

[Lego20]

What did I write that was hateful. All you guys look for denial, you are missing the elephant in the room.

your quote:

You guys have been groomed by the Hindutuva to hating Muslims and nothing will change that. As I said you are lucky that we aren't playing the game you are playing
A few fake accounts with a few fake videos and Ind could be ablaze.

It is offensive & hateful in the following ways:
1. You thinking that people are gullible to be to brainwashed by anything.
2. The undertones that Hindutva is a bad thing without knowing what it is.
3. Your threats about using inappropriate means (fake videos) to set India on fire.

 

[Lego20]

Since people think Hindutva stands for all things bad, here is a brief description. I have underlined the parts that are objectionable/disgareeable. Most of the rest are just asking for fairness:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindutva#Concepts_and_issues

Concepts and issues
Hindutva ideology has focused on the following issues:

- Political representation of Hindu nationalists, and in some cases exclusivist interests of the Hindus and Indic-centered culture.[79][80]
- Jammu and Kashmir as an integral, inseparable part of India.[81]
- The concept of Akhand Bharat (undivided India), including present day Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Nepal, Pakistan, Bhutan, Tibet, Myanmar and Sri Lanka.
- Address Christian and Islamic proselytisation, religious conversion practices and the arithmetic of religious communities in India;[82][83] insist that Muslims and Christians accept its doctrine of equality of religions[84]
- Implement social justice, reservations and rural Indic interests according to the Hindutva model[85]
- Textbook revision and educating Indian youth in the Hindutva version of Indian history[86][87]
- Ayodhya and other sites of historic religious disputes[88]
- Strengthen the defence forces of India[89]
- Replace "pseudo-secularism" with "true secularism", the latter being the Western-style separation of religion and state[90][80]
- Decentralize and reform the Indian economy, end the socialist, centrally-planned, state-owned economic model[91][92]
- Represent the diaspora and its Indic cultural interests in the international forums[93][94]

Uniform Civil Code
Main article: Uniform Civil Code
The Hindutva leaders have sought a Uniform Civil Code for all the citizens of India, where the same law applies to all its citizens irrespective of the individual's religion.[95][96] They state that differential laws based on religion violate the Indian Constitution and these differential laws have sowed the seeds of divisiveness between different religious communities.[95][96][97] Under the current laws that were enacted in 1955–56, state John Hutchinson and Anthony Smith, the constitutionally directive principle of a Uniform Civil Code covers only non-Muslims. The Uniform Civil Code is opposed by the Muslim leaders.[95] A Uniform Civil Code that applies equally to the Muslims in India is also opposed by political parties such as the Indian National Congress and the Communist Party.[98]

Protection of Hindu interests
The followers of Hindutva are known for their criticism of the Indian government as too passive with regard to the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindus by Kashmiri Muslim separatists and the 1998 Wandhama massacre, and advocates of Hindutva wish a harder stance in Jammu and Kashmir.[99][100]

The supporters of Hindutva sought to protect the native Hindu culture and traditions especially those that symbolised the Hindu culture. They believe that Indian culture is identical with the Hindu culture.[101] These include animals, language, holy structures rivers and medicine.[102]

They opposed the continuation of Urdu being used as a vernacular language as they associated it with Muslims. They felt that Urdu symbolised a foreign culture. For them, Hindi alone was the unifying factor for all the diverse forces in the country. It even wanted to make Hindi as the official language of India and felt that it should be promoted at the expense of English and the other regional languages. However, this caused a state of tension and alarm in the non-Hindi regions. The non-Hindi regions saw it as an attempt by the north to dominate the rest of the country. Eventually, this demand was put down in order to protect the cultural diversity of the country.[103]

Attempts have been made to revive and promote Hindu science particularly in the fields of indigenous medicine, especially Ayurveda. This revivalist movement in medicine was predominantly a result to the emergence of Hindu nationalism in the 1890s.[104]

 

[Kroll]

I agreed with what Naz said, especially about the bit when it comes to the crunch.

It was brave of him to come out with these statements but part of me wishes he didn't, wouldn't like to see any harm or abuse come his way.

 

[Civil]

Cant believe what Im reading.... calls for genocide???

 

[KingKhanWC]

Since people think Hindutva stands for all things bad, here is a brief description. I have underlined the parts that are objectionable/disgareeable. Most of the rest are just asking for fairness:

Gold )

BJP members, RSS members have openly called for attacks against Muslims and their religion. What type of fairness are you seeing here?

Btw since you came googling with strog wiki defence of Hindutva, do you support this ideology?

 

[Pakpak]

Gold )

BJP members, RSS members have openly called for attacks against Muslims and their religion. What type of fairness are you seeing here?

Btw since you came googling with strog wiki defence of Hindutva, do you support this ideology?

This guy thinks an FIR would be a good thing to do, while Muslims are being lynched infront of cameras and many times beaten to death by the Police (Delhi riots last year)

 

[nextover666666]

Any Indian who downplays or denies that their country is fast descending into a fascist, racist state is delusional at this point. Time for moderate Indians (if there are any left) to raise their voices.

Post of the Year, I would even say Decade, Spot On.

 

[uppercut]

Is this sort of hate mongering allowed in India?

Yes, but not from minorities.

Not true ... check this out ( And it does not even include Godhra train torching and Pandit genocide and what goes on in Kerala )

https://www.opindia.com/2021/12/15-...called-for-genocide-and-jihad-against-hindus/

While that doesn't mean others should follow suit and respond likewise but the situation is far from what the world media tries to portray about India.

 

[Lego20]

Gold )

BJP members, RSS members have openly called for attacks against Muslims and their religion. What type of fairness are you seeing here?

Btw since you came googling with strog wiki defence of Hindutva, do you support this ideology?

Most parts of it, yes. Many parts, no. Its not black and white for me.

The leftist have sold the country and the Hindus in the name of secularism, democracy and liberalism.

Its quite wierd that an ask for uniform civil code(and many other neutral things) are regarded as right wing. Thats how far left we are.

Same is the case in USA. The other day I was chided on my company slack channel for calling illegal immigrants as illegal! The suggestion was to call them undocumented.

 

[Lego20]

This guy thinks an FIR would be a good thing to do, while Muslims are being lynched infront of cameras and many times beaten to death by the Police (Delhi riots last year)

The muslims shown on TV were breaking and obstructing law and traffic.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Most parts of it, yes. Many parts, no. Its not black and white for me.

The leftist have sold the country and the Hindus in the name of secularism, democracy and liberalism.

Its quite wierd that an ask for uniform civil code(and many other neutral things) are regarded as right wing. Thats how far left we are.

Same is the case in USA. The other day I was chided on my company slack channel for calling illegal immigrants as illegal! The suggestion was to call them undocumented.

Your government members calling for attacks/killings and even rape of Muslims is the the lefties fault?

Again, do you support Hindutva ideology?

 

[Lego20]

Your government members calling for attacks/killings and even rape of Muslims is the the lefties fault?

Again, do you support Hindutva ideology?

Provide one reference of govt. members calling for killing of anyone let alone muslims.

I have already answered the question on Hindutva. Most of their charter and aspirations look noble. I even highlighted the ones i dont agree with. That said, I am not an activist or political affialiate. Never once voted in my life.

 

[Bewal Express]

your quote:


It is offensive & hateful in the following ways:
1. You thinking that people are gullible to be to brainwashed by anything.
2. The undertones that Hindutva is a bad thing without knowing what it is.
3. Your threats about using inappropriate means (fake videos) to set India on fire.

All of these are true and again you are targeting us that want to see harmony and not hate. Look closer to your govt for their ideology and behaviour. I would be horrified if PK state did what you guys do every year during Muharram and look to create between the Sunni and Shia.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Provide one reference of govt. members calling for killing of anyone let alone muslims.

I have already answered the question on Hindutva. Most of their charter and aspirations look noble. I even highlighted the ones i dont agree with. That said, I am not an activist or political affialiate. Never once voted in my life.

Sure, here is one.

BJP Mahila Morcha Leader Says Hindus Should Gangrape Muslim Women; Gets Expelled

https://thewire.in/communalism/bjp-...us-should-gangrape-muslim-women-gets-expelled

See video above for the recent conference on ethnic cleansing of Muslims.

You still havent answered. Do you agree/support the ideology?

 

[Bewal Express]

Provide one reference of govt. members calling for killing of anyone let alone muslims.

I have already answered the question on Hindutva. Most of their charter and aspirations look noble. I even highlighted the ones i dont agree with. That said, I am not an activist or political affialiate. Never once voted in my life.

Obviously you have forgotten the Gujarat Massacre. Why does Modi go on about people that died 400 yrs ago, its called dog whistle politics. Its not our fault that your state ideology is hate

 

[Lego20]

Sure, here is one.



https://thewire.in/communalism/bjp-...us-should-gangrape-muslim-women-gets-expelled

See video above for the recent conference on ethnic cleansing of Muslims.

You still havent answered. Do you agree/support the ideology?

She is not part of the govt. She was removed from her position after the in incitation.

You dont seem to understand. My stand on Hindutva is not yes or no. I dont agree with many things though i agree with most. I am not going to rehash this anymore so you may stop asking.

 

[Kroll]

Not true ... check this out ( And it does not even include Godhra train torching and Pandit genocide and what goes on in Kerala )

https://www.opindia.com/2021/12/15-...called-for-genocide-and-jihad-against-hindus/

While that doesn't mean others should follow suit and respond likewise but the situation is far from what the world media tries to portray about India.

LMAO, dude seriously? Amongst other things, Opindia is a well known Hindutva right-wing propaganda portal. It has published fake news and anti-Muslim articles on multiple occasions.

 

[Lego20]

Obviously you have forgotten the Gujarat Massacre. Why does Modi go on about people that died 400 yrs ago, its called dog whistle politics. Its not our fault that your state ideology is hate

Godhra has been discussed to death. Just fyi, it was started by a Muslim mob burning a train full of women and children.

Modi has been exonerated of any wrong doing. Just fyi, while there was congress govt and administration for so many years of investigation. End of.

His Aurangzeb quote was based on venue afaik. That said, abolsutely nothing wrong with the quote unless you are Aurangzeb.

 

[KingKhanWC]

She is not part of the govt. She was removed from her position after the in incitation.

You dont seem to understand. My stand on Hindutva is not yes or no. I dont agree with many things though i agree with most. I am not going to rehash this anymore so you may stop asking.

She was part of the government. No comment on the confrence to shed blood of Muslims video? Or has he been removed too?

Thanks, most means Yes.

Dont be shy, write your true feelings.

 

[Lego20]

She was part of the government. No comment on the confrence to shed blood of Muslims video? Or has he been removed too?
She does not hold any govt office.

Thanks, most means Yes.

Dont be shy, write your true feelings.

...

 

[Zaz]

Lol. Rich, coming from Pakistan. I would shut up on this topic if I was from Pakistan

Simple qs Do you stand against the hate and vitriol that is encouraged and spewed against minorities in india? The dog whistle politics that is used and the silent encouragement that goons are receiving?

 

[PakLFC]

No matter how hard the Muslim's try to prove their loyalty to India they will always be seen as traitors. If an Indian Muslim admires some Pakistani then he will be lynched where as if a Hindu abuses Gandhi he is a patriot. It just gets increasingly weird. Hindu trolls writing from their mobiles or laptops are true Indians where as Muslim's in the Indian military are still Pakistanis in disguise.

 

[Lego20]

Simple qs Do you stand against the hate and vitriol that is encouraged and spewed against minorities in india? The dog whistle politics that is used and the silent encouragement that goons are receiving?

Good question. No. I condemn it.

That said, a lot of appeasement policies from past need to be reversed.

 

[street cricketer]

indian muslims paying the price for believing any mainstream political party would stand up for them. they need their own political representation, someone who can hold those in power answerable.

long term indian muslims need to become a demographic majority in at least one state, otherwise they are gonna get picked off (politically, socially and economically) by the hindu right one by one.

Yeah that's just going to push the moderate hindus of that state to the hindutva fold and increase polarisation. Nobody wants to become a minority from being a majority in his own state. You already see this happening in Assam and to an extent in West Bengal.

 

[street cricketer]

What has happened in India is the soft radicalisation of the hindu majority against its muslim minority. I'm using the word "soft radicalisation" because most of the hindutva supporters are not the angry men with AK guns, bombs and religious banners you see of the many terrorist outfits in the world. They are all perfectly normal adults who are IT working, chartered accountants, doctors and retired 60 year plus boomers, forwarding the hundreds of whatsapp messages against muslims that add to the polarisation of the hindu majority.

Right now, the hindutva project is aimed at getting an electoral victory in every general election by riding the hindu majority wave in each term using religion as a card, a ploy that the Congress has found it hard to deal with. Even if Congress resorts to the soft hindutva rhetoric, the BJP's far right hardline hindutva will always appeal more to the hindu majority than whatever version of hindutva Congress can come up with.

Amidst the electoral battle of BJP and Congress, it's easy to ignore the Indian muslims themselves who have been extremely patient and tolerant in the face of overt provocation by hindutvadis like the namaz row in Gurgaon. Indian muslims in my humble opinion are among the most tolerant of muslims in the subcontinent, even if they have been at the receiving end of massive negative sentiments in media and the general hindu majority. But if the same hindutva electoral agenda is used by paramilitary outfits and its supposed leaders like the ones mentioned above to peddle extremist agenda against muslims calling for genocide, it is natural that Indian muslims will also organise themselves in their own paramilitary groups to defend against the extremist hindu outfits, and there are already such groups existing in India. You can't blame the muslims for doing that if they resort to defending themselves against the aggression and violence of the hindutva militants.

 

[uppercut]

LMAO, dude seriously? Amongst other things, Opindia is a well known Hindutva right-wing propaganda portal. It has published fake news and anti-Muslim articles on multiple occasions.

The link has videos also. And you can verify these incidents thru other sources.

 

[Lego20]

What has happened in India is the soft radicalisation of the hindu majority against its muslim minority. I'm using the word "soft radicalisation" because most of the hindutva supporters are not the angry men with AK guns, bombs and religious banners you see of the many terrorist outfits in the world. They are all perfectly normal adults who are IT working, chartered accountants, doctors and retired 60 year plus boomers, forwarding the hundreds of whatsapp messages against muslims that add to the polarisation of the hindu majority.

So you think those fake whatsapp messages is able to make these educated class into muslim/islam haters?

Right now, the hindutva project is aimed at getting an electoral victory in every general election by riding the hindu majority wave in each term using religion as a card, a ploy that the Congress has found it hard to deal with. Even if Congress resorts to the soft hindutva rhetoric, the BJP's far right hardline hindutva will always appeal more to the hindu majority than whatever version of hindutva Congress can come up with.

See it for what it is - This is result of extreme leftism and minority appeasement that has happened over the last 7 decades

Amidst the electoral battle of BJP and Congress, it's easy to ignore the Indian muslims themselves who have been extremely patient and tolerant in the face of overt provocation by hindutvadis like the namaz row in Gurgaon.

There is nothing to read in the Namaz row. The illegal activities of occupying public places regularly for gatherings has been stopped. If at all, the illegal tolerance in the past was wrong

Indian muslims in my humble opinion are among the most tolerant of muslims in the subcontinent, even if they have been at the receiving end of massive negative sentiments in media and the general hindu majority. But if the same hindutva electoral agenda is used by paramilitary outfits and its supposed leaders like the ones mentioned above to peddle extremist agenda against muslims calling for genocide, it is natural that Indian muslims will also organise themselves in their own paramilitary groups to defend against the extremist hindu outfits, and there are already such groups existing in India. You can't blame the muslims for doing that if they resort to defending themselves against the aggression and violence of the hindutva militants.

Wrong solutions to the problem. You are basically advocating Muslims to do reverse godhra

...

 

[Ahmad-GERMANFC]

Indian Muslims are so weak and timid it’s embarrassing

 

[MenInG]

Indian Muslims are so weak and timid it’s embarrassing

Insensitive comment.

They live in a democracy and they do what they can within the laws of that country. They need to be encouraged to stand up for their rights but not looked down upon.

 

[street cricketer]

...

I want to learn from you that in what way you, as someone belonging to the hindu majority in our country, have felt discriminated against by our previous governments in favouring the muslim minority in our country. I'm just asking so that I can better understand your plight and feelings as a result of the discrimination you have faced.

And no, I was not advocating for anything and nor it was my solution. I'm just saying that would be the natural reaction. My perfect solution would the hindu majority slowly deradicalising itself based on religion, but that's a very unlikely solution I must admit.

 

[Lego20]

I want to learn from you that in what way you, as someone belonging to the hindu majority in our country, have felt discriminated against by our previous governments in favouring the muslim minority in our country. I'm just asking so that I can better understand your plight and feelings as a result of the discrimination you have faced.


Many (details in the link below): https://swarajyamag.com/ideas/the-c...tion-of-hinduism-a-hindu-cry-for-equal-rights
- Why does Islam have a separate civil code in Indian constitution? Why can Hindus only have 1 wife against 3 for Islam?
- Why does a Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca gets subsidized by tax payer money?
- Government control of Hindu Temples: Why does the wealth of Hindu temple belong to state and not that of church/masjid?
- Denial of cultural rights to Hindus
- Denial of educational rights to fragmenting Hindu society
- Ban on teaching Hindu ancient texts and civilisational knowledge
- Sectarian public funding
- Freedom to propagate religion
- Freedom to practice Hindu religion
- Freedom to profess Hindu religion



And no, I was not advocating for anything and nor it was my solution. I'm just saying that would be the natural reaction. My perfect solution would the hindu majority slowly deradicalising itself based on religion, but that's a very unlikely solution I must admit.

There is no such thing as radicalization of Hindus. The most peaceful community around the world. Ask any country even other than India.

...

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Indian Muslims are so weak and timid it’s embarrassing

I don't think they are weak at all.

Each time Hindu extremists have shed their blood it has been because of numbers superiority and the local government and police were literally protecting its terrorists as they massacred unarmed Muslims. A very important detail.

Deep in their hearts, BJP and its useless goons know that they will get their nose bloodied if they messed with Indian Muslims. That's one of the reasons of their recent desperate antiques.

There are 1.4+ billion people living inside India. According to my estimation around 200 million of these are the superior Hindu class, politicians, rich people, establishment and top military personnel etc.

The 200 million, basically, rule on the rest of them. The good news, actually the great news, is that oppressed people are slowly waking up and asking for their rights. The recent Farmers Protest is a shining example of that.

Btw, before anyone gets triggered something similar is happening in Pakistan, Russia or China and probably most countries in the world. Even USA. With racial, class or other variants.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

“Muslims who are opposing Pakistan will spend rest of their lives proving Loyalty to India.”
- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah

-----

^ The day this above quote stops being relevant then there will be no need for borders in region. For these past 70 years it has held.

Let's wait a 100 years see how things evolve. Quote me you future PPers

 

[RajBan]

I don't think they are weak at all.

Each time Hindu extremists have shed their blood it has been because of numbers superiority and the local government and police were literally protecting its terrorists as they massacred unarmed Muslims. A very important detail.

Deep in their hearts, BJP and its useless goons know that they will get their nose bloodied if they messed with Indian Muslims. That's one of the reasons of their recent desperate antiques.

There are 1.4+ billion people living inside India. According to my estimation around 200 million of these are the superior Hindu class, politicians, rich people, establishment and top military personnel etc.

The 200 million, basically, rule on the rest of them. The good news, actually the great news, is that oppressed people are slowly waking up and asking for their rights. The recent Farmers Protest is a shining example of that.

Btw, before anyone gets triggered something similar is happening in Pakistan, Russia or China and probably most countries in the world. Even USA. With racial, class or other variants.

Lol. The farmers protest has been to protect interest of rich farmers and traders who have benefited by exploiting the daily wagers and rented labours. It's nothing to do with pro poor stance. If anything it's just the opposite. The only good thing was this being executed as a proper civil movement without any major intervention from other mainstream political parties. Infact they consciously avoided this to be a political movement by Congress or Left and did not allow BJP to hijack the narrative as an anti Modi movement.

 

[pillionrider]

The BJP is basically giving fringe Muslims enough time before the general elections to do something terrible. That's the only way this incompetent government knows it can be voted back to power again. Third-class losers. If I could spit through words, I would do it now.

 

[pillionrider]

The smarter thing for him would be to say:
"I am sure the law enforcement authorities have seen the hate conclave footage and will take due action as per the law".

Yeah sure. Keep trying to project lalaland online, when in reality you probably have already seen the video of the police with those hatemongers where they're laughing and the lead accused says the cops are on our side.

Your disingenuity matches Modi's.

 

[gani999]

Any Indian who downplays or denies that their country is fast descending into a fascist, racist state is delusional at this point. Time for moderate Indians (if there are any left) to raise their voices.

It is not descending into any racist or facist state.

Actually, India has had equally bad earlier, if not a lot worse. The caste divisions in the politics of the 1990s were a lot worse than this hindutva stuff we are seeing now. That led to a lot of violence too. It didn't lead to any civil war then and it won't now.

Indian politics has always relied on dividing the masses, either by way of religion or caste. It is something our politicians learned from the British.
Which division takes place when depends on which card the politicians decide to play. If it's hindutva today, it will be something else tomorrow.

The country will continue progressing, inspite of its politicians.

 

[ElRaja]

Yeah that's just going to push the moderate hindus of that state to the hindutva fold and increase polarisation. Nobody wants to become a minority from being a majority in his own state. You already see this happening in Assam and to an extent in West Bengal.

why should that push moderate hindus towards extremism? surely a moderate hindu can see that unless muslims have some political representation they will remain the target of the far right extremists, and that would remain impossible as long as they are spread out.

 

[street cricketer]

why should that push moderate hindus towards extremism? surely a moderate hindu can see that unless muslims have some political representation they will remain the target of the far right extremists, and that would remain impossible as long as they are spread out.

Every state in India has a certain unique culture about it, which they'd feel as threatened if they become a minority in their own state. For example, you associate Tamil Nadu with its various historic temples, Bharatanatyam and Carnatic singing, all of which has connections with Hindu culture. Tamil Nadu wouldn't be the same it is without these things I've mentioned. Kashmir similarly has a certain sufi muslim culture about it, particularly in the valley. Kerala is a mosaic of different religions and its culture reflects that. Ditto with every other state in India. Kashmiri muslims wouldn't like muslims becoming a minority in their own state or the Kashmir valley irrespective of any noble reason.

Every state in India is like a small country on its own with its own unique culture, which would be altered with any demographic change, which would invariably result in polarisation and more division. Poor hindus in Sindh are often persecuted and are subject to forced conversions. Would you rather Sindh becomes a hindu majority province just so the Sindhi hindus are emancipated.. Do you think Sindhi muslims would be happy if in a hypothetical scenario, a demographic change occurs so that Sindh becomes a hindu majority province just so the Pakistani hindus could get some political representation and remain free of persecution from the majority? Things don't work like that. The Sindhi muslims, no matter how liberal they are, will invariably be against the hindus if the muslim majority position of Sindh is threatened.

 

[Technics 1210]

No one, and I mean no one is addressing the elephant in the room.

What Islam considers a sacrifice; Hindus consider a god - The Cow.

Let this sink in.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Every state in India has a certain unique culture about it, which they'd feel as threatened if they become a minority in their own state. For example, you associate Tamil Nadu with its various historic temples, Bharatanatyam and Carnatic singing, all of which has connections with Hindu culture. Tamil Nadu wouldn't be the same it is without these things I've mentioned. Kashmir similarly has a certain sufi muslim culture about it, particularly in the valley. Kerala is a mosaic of different religions and its culture reflects that. Ditto with every other state in India. Kashmiri muslims wouldn't like muslims becoming a minority in their own state or the Kashmir valley irrespective of any noble reason.

Every state in India is like a small country on its own with its own unique culture, which would be altered with any demographic change, which would invariably result in polarisation and more division. Poor hindus in Sindh are often persecuted and are subject to forced conversions. Would you rather Sindh becomes a hindu majority province just so the Sindhi hindus are emancipated.. Do you think Sindhi muslims would be happy if in a hypothetical scenario, a demographic change occurs so that Sindh becomes a hindu majority province just so the Pakistani hindus could get some political representation and remain free of persecution from the majority? Things don't work like that. The Sindhi muslims, no matter how liberal they are, will invariably be against the hindus if the muslim majority position of Sindh is threatened.

I don't really understand that analogy. If Hindus in Sindh were such a significant number then they should have some sort of representation and political clout anyway. But they are as far as I know, quite a small percentage of the population so it is an unlikely scenario anyway.

Also demographic change in the population can be natural or forced. If it's natural then I don't think anyone should complain about proportional representation. What is the situation with Assam and West Bengal which you originally referred to?

 

[street cricketer]

I don't really understand that analogy. If Hindus in Sindh were such a significant number then they should have some sort of representation and political clout anyway. But they are as far as I know, quite a small percentage of the population so it is an unlikely scenario anyway.

Also demographic change in the population can be natural or forced. If it's natural then I don't think anyone should complain about proportional representation. What is the situation with Assam and West Bengal which you originally referred to?

The OP was talking about a forced demographic change, and my reply was in context of that post. In any case, irrespective of whether the demographic change is natural or forced, you can be 100% sure that the majority will inevitably get polarised against the minority that's primed to become the majority. Nobody would be happy in becoming a minority and losing the majoritarian privilege in whatever region he lives in.

Assam and West Bengal have seen their muslim population rise disproportionately to the rise in the hindu population over the last few decades, largely due to the unchecked illegal immigration that happened from Bangladesh starting from the refugee crisis during the 1971 war. As a result, Assam is a BJP stronghold and is a pretty polarised state when it comes to hindu muslim relations (although it manifests as ethnic Assamese-Bengali conflict) while BJP is the largest opposition party in Bengal right now, when previously BJP didn't used to be a huge player in WB.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

When liberal Bollywood types who have no authentic discernable culture and to an outside appear to be quite culturally fluid feel threatened, then one can only imagine the threat that the average person on the street is feeling.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The OP was talking about a forced demographic change, and my reply was in context of that post. In any case, irrespective of whether the demographic change is natural or forced, you can be 100% sure that the majority will inevitably get polarised against the minority that's primed to become the majority. Nobody would be happy in becoming a minority and losing the majoritarian privilege in whatever region he lives in.

Assam and West Bengal have seen their muslim population rise disproportionately to the rise in the hindu population over the last few decades, largely due to the unchecked illegal immigration that happened from Bangladesh starting from the refugee crisis during the 1971 war. As a result, Assam is a BJP stronghold and is a pretty polarised state when it comes to hindu muslim relations (although it manifests as ethnic Assamese-Bengali conflict) while BJP is the largest opposition party in Bengal right now, when previously BJP didn't used to be a huge player in WB.

OP, if you mean the original post in the thread is just talking about Muslims in India generally as far as I can make out, nothing about forced demographic change in there.

As for the illegal immigration from Bangladesh, if it's connected to Indian intervention in the 1971 Pakistan civil war, then that is probably just refugee fallout. Once India stepped into another country's business, then they have some moral obligation to provide welfare for the war refugees from that region.

 

[ElRaja]

Every state in India has a certain unique culture about it, which they'd feel as threatened if they become a minority in their own state. For example, you associate Tamil Nadu with its various historic temples, Bharatanatyam and Carnatic singing, all of which has connections with Hindu culture. Tamil Nadu wouldn't be the same it is without these things I've mentioned. Kashmir similarly has a certain sufi muslim culture about it, particularly in the valley. Kerala is a mosaic of different religions and its culture reflects that. Ditto with every other state in India. Kashmiri muslims wouldn't like muslims becoming a minority in their own state or the Kashmir valley irrespective of any noble reason.

so then the moderate hindus should understand better how difficult being a minority everywhere in india must be.

and if this is the case, how would you suggest muslims to democratically exert political influence in india given they are not a voting block of importance in pretty much any state.

Every state in India is like a small country on its own with its own unique culture, which would be altered with any demographic change, which would invariably result in polarisation and more division. Poor hindus in Sindh are often persecuted and are subject to forced conversions. Would you rather Sindh becomes a hindu majority province just so the Sindhi hindus are emancipated.. Do you think Sindhi muslims would be happy if in a hypothetical scenario, a demographic change occurs so that Sindh becomes a hindu majority province just so the Pakistani hindus could get some political representation and remain free of persecution from the majority? Things don't work like that. The Sindhi muslims, no matter how liberal they are, will invariably be against the hindus if the muslim majority position of Sindh is threatened.

sindh is pbly the most culturally shifted province in pakistan. im pretty sure ethnic pathans who have moved in the last 30 or 40 years are pbly the second largest group in karachi now.

but to answer your point if pakistan had a sizeable population of hindus who were being threatened with genocide i would understand if they chose to move en masse to a low population area, like Balochistan or something to gather to exert political influence.

 

[ElRaja]

When liberal Bollywood types who have no authentic discernable culture and to an outside appear to be quite culturally fluid feel threatened, then one can only imagine the threat that the average person on the street is feeling.

also makes it rather distasteful when someone of his repute describes as "unfortunate" that Pakistanis "claim" urdu as their own.

 

[from_da_lost_dim3nsion]

This coming form a guy who doesn't even identify as a Muslim anymore.

 

[uppercut]

No one, and I mean no one is addressing the elephant in the room.

What Islam considers a sacrifice; Hindus consider a god - The Cow.

Let this sink in.

I can address it and I would like to add two more bigger elephants :

1. There is only one God/religion vs Sarva Dharma sambhava ( All Religions are possible this is not just in theory - The Parsis will attest )
2. Idol worship

So therefore you can see why the 2 religions are constantly in friction. Not sure what options the Hindu's have short of converting. Would love to see your take.

 

[street cricketer]

OP, if you mean the original post in the thread is just talking about Muslims in India generally as far as I can make out, nothing about forced demographic change in there.

I was talking about ElRaja's post.

 

[street cricketer]

so then the moderate hindus should understand better how difficult being a minority everywhere in india must be.

It doesn't matter how moderate or liberal a person is, nobody likes to become a minority in his own land. Why do you think Kashmiris are protesting against the threat of demographic changes happening in Kashmir.. (and rightly so I might add, altering the muslim majority status of the valley through forced demographic change is the worst thing that can happen to that region).

and if this is the case, how would you suggest muslims to democratically exert political influence in india given they are not a voting block of importance in pretty much any state.

If muslims are all concentrated in one state, they are not going to influence the national elections. Tamils hardly vote for the BJP, so do the malayalis. But that hardly matters for the BJP because it comes to power by winning in the rest of the states. If you are saying muslims can move to one state so that they're free of persecution, that allready happens in many states in the south where they're free of persecution.

sindh is pbly the most culturally shifted province in pakistan. im pretty sure ethnic pathans who have moved in the last 30 or 40 years are pbly the second largest group in karachi now.

but to answer your point if pakistan had a sizeable population of hindus who were being threatened with genocide i would understand if they chose to move en masse to a low population area, like Balochistan or something to gather to exert political influence.

Pathans moving to Karachi makes no difference because in the subcontinent, the religious identity supersedes the ethnic identity. You as Punjabi or a Kashmiri might be okay with Balochistan becoming a Hindu majority province, but the Balochi muslims living in Balochistan will not share your same sentiments. Why would a Balochi muslim be completely fine with Balochis becoming a minority in his own land?

 

[Stewie]

Human beings are stupid. It’s like we stopped evolving mentally somewhere at the turn of the 21st century. Pretty stupid we use religion/ethnicity/language and fight each other.

India had a leg up on Pakistan in that regard all those years but it’s quite clear as a society they have regressed much lower than Pakistanis now.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

Human beings are stupid. It’s like we stopped evolving mentally somewhere at the turn of the 21st century. Pretty stupid we use religion/ethnicity/language and fight each other.

India had a leg up on Pakistan in that regard all those years but it’s quite clear as a society they have regressed much lower than Pakistanis now.

It was really good marketing and lack of exposure due to no internet in whole of India. People around the world had this certain perception of average Indian.

The 2001 massacre of Muslims was not an accident.

All I can say is may Allah SWT bless Jinnah's soul and grant him a high spot in Paradise...!

 

[MenInG]

Bhopal: A video from a Chhattisgarh village is being widely circulated where villagers can be seen taking a pledge to boycott Muslims. The police said they have traced the person who organised it, but have not found the involvement of any political party or religious group

"We Hindus will not buy goods from any Muslim shopkeeper, will not sell or rent our land to any Muslim," the residents of Kundikala village in Sarguja district, can be heard saying in the video.

"We Hindus pledge to buy from vendors coming to our villages only after ascertaining their religion. We also pledge to not work as labourers for them," they are heard saying.

Officials said the video surfaced after a brawl between residents of two villages -- Kundikala and Aara -- on January 1.

On New Year's Day, some boys of Aara village had come to Kundikala for a picnic and clashed with the local men.

Later in the evening, more than 10 people from Aara -- led by Iliyaas, a member of the local government -- came in motorcycles and an SUV, entered the house of a local, Birendra Yadav, and assaulted his family.

Everyone in the house, including Birendra Yadav's minor niece, was injured.

The police came soon after and arrested the assailants. They were accused of rioting, obscene act, voluntarily causing hurt, criminal intimidation and trespass. But soon after, they received bail from the court.

The villagers alleged that the minor girl was also assaulted by the attackers but they got bail as the police failed to apply the relevant sections.

After the accused got bail, hundreds of villagers held a demonstration outside the Lundra police station and raised slogans against the police.

Later the villagers later took the oath, pledging to sever all ties with Muslims.

Amit Kamble, the Superintendent of Police in Surguja, denied the involvement of any political party or religious group in the incident. He said they have received the video yesterday and have identified the person who made them take the oath. But so far they have not found him to be linked to any political party or right wing group.

NDTV

 

[The Bald Eagle]

US religious freedom watchdog 'implores' Biden administration to designate India

The US religious freedom watchdog on Friday again called on the Biden administration to designate India as a "country of particular concern" under the US Religious Freedom Act, citing its alleged targeting of religious minorities overseas.

The US Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF), an independent federal government commission, said "recent efforts by the Indian government to silence activists, journalists, and lawyers abroad pose a serious threat to religious freedom".

"USCIRF implores the US Department of State to designate India a Country of Particular Concern due to India’s systematic, ongoing, and egregious violations of freedom of religion or belief," it said in a statement.

USCIRF Commissioner Stephen Schneck called the Indian government's alleged involvement in the killing of Sikh activist Hardeep Singh Nijjar in Canada and a plot to kill another Sikh activist, Gurpatwant Singh Pannun, in the United States "deeply troubling."

The Indian embassy in Washington did not immediately respond to a request for comment. The Indian government routinely denies any discrimination in the Hindu-majority country.

Source : The Express Tribune

 

[Champ_Pal]

Does Naseeruddin Shah even know what Genocide is? He seems to be getting senile and foolish as he is aging.

There is a difference between occasional discrimination and a genocide. No Muslim gets discriminated in schools or jobs if they apply for it. There are thousands of Muslim Professionals working in cities like Bangalore and Hyderabad and making a good living like the rest of Hindus or Christians or Sikhs. Very poor from Mr.Shah.

 

[uppercut]

its been roughly 2 years since this interview and obviously Nasiruddin is still roaming freely while being a vocal critic of BJP. As is the interviewer - Karan Thappar. Both still get free airtime.

Just that bare fact should be enough to explain the situation in India with regards to minorities. But it wont as pre-conceived notions and hidden agenda's get in the way.

 

[RexRex]

its been roughly 2 years since this interview and obviously Nasiruddin is still roaming freely while being a vocal critic of BJP. As is the interviewer - Karan Thappar. Both still get free airtime.

Just that bare fact should be enough to explain the situation in India with regards to minorities. But it wont as pre-conceived notions and hidden agenda's get in the way.

Nas Shah is fearful of a repeat of Modi's muslim genocide of 2001. I don't blame him.

 

[uppercut]

Nas Shah is fearful of a repeat of Modi's muslim genocide of 2001. I don't blame him.

forget Genocide ... Why are him and Karan Thappar still roaming freely and spouting all sorts of nonsense on a regular basis ? Can you logically explain that ?

 

[RexRex]

forget Genocide ... Why are him and Karan Thappar still roaming freely and spouting all sorts of nonsense on a regular basis ? Can you logically explain that ?

forget Genocide ? Is that a bit too inconvenient for you ? 2001 is the crux, the basis for why Modi has his reputation.

Modi couldn't care less about a couple of digital outlets like Wire or Thappar with negligible reach into the hindi heartland. It reminds me of how the Pak army allows some criticism of them in the english newspapers in Pakistan but none in the Urdu press, which majority of the country read.