[VIDEO] Hussain Talat runs out Usman Salahuddin in Quaid-e-Azam Trophy - Is this a fair dismissal?

[Abdullah719]

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Don't think the batsman did anything wrong there.... he was back in his crease but the fielder knocked the bat over and ran him out. Fair play? Fielder is Hussain Talat and Usman Salahuddin is the one who was 'run out'.

 

[Abdullah719]

This was the fourth innings and Lahore Whites needed 161 to upset SNGPL. Usman Salahuddin is by far Lahore Whites' best batsman so this was quite a big blow for them. They were eventually bowled out for 88.

 

[Syed1]

Garbage umpiring and zero sportsmanship by PP darling Talat

 

[MMHS]

If the fielder knocks the bat out of hand, that’s straight not out, regardless of batsman being in or out (no question either if he could reach or not, without interference). It’s like a situation where batsmen are running and one fielder grabs the runner at mid wicket & other runs him out. However, if the bat was knocked after the bail (s) had been removed, batsman is out fair (provided he is still out of crease).

If there was no contact before the bails were dislodged, it’s a fair dismissal, because non striker was backing too much.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

If the fielder knocks the bat out of hand, that’s straight not out, regardless of batsman being in or out (no question either if he could reach or not, without interference). It’s like a situation where batsmen are running and one fielder grabs the runner at mid wicket & other runs him out. However, if the bat was knocked after the bail (s) had been removed, batsman is out fair (provided he is still out of crease).

If there was no contact before the bails were dislodged, it’s a fair dismissal, because non striker was backing too much.

It's not about when the knocking happened.

As long as it wasn't deliberate, the fielder hasn't done anything wrong. Just like a case when some fielder collides with the batsman who is going for a run. If it's deliberate it's a 5 run penalty. If not, it doesn't matter whether this was or was not the reason for him not making his ground.

As for criticizing umpire. That's 100% rubbish. This is 100% out as long as umpire doesn't think that Talat deliberately impeded him. It's not for the umpire to judge whether Talat should withdraw appeal etc.

Good umpiring. Unlucky batsman. Slightly graceless from the fielder and fielding captain, but well within his right

 

[Rayyman]

Whatever it takes to win. Who cares about "sportsmanship."

 

[MMHS]

It's not about when the knocking happened.

As long as it wasn't deliberate, the fielder hasn't done anything wrong. Just like a case when some fielder collides with the batsman who is going for a run. If it's deliberate it's a 5 run penalty. If not, it doesn't matter whether this was or was not the reason for him not making his ground.

As for criticizing umpire. That's 100% rubbish. This is 100% out as long as umpire doesn't think that Talat deliberately impeded him. It's not for the umpire to judge whether Talat should withdraw appeal etc.

Good umpiring. Unlucky batsman. Slightly graceless from the fielder and fielding captain, but well within his right

You think, it doesn’t matter if the bat was knocked after bails are dislodged & batsmen had reached the crease with bat, but his feet are outside?

 

[CricketAnalyst]

You think, it doesn’t matter if the bat was knocked after bails are dislodged & batsmen had reached the crease with bat, but his feet are outside?

Sorry, I'm not sure exactly what you mean.

All that matters are two things:

A) Did he ground his bat before bails were dislodged?

B) Was the knocking of his bat deliberate?

If the answer to both these questions is no, then he is simply out.

If the answer to A is yes (that he grounded his bat before bails are dislodged) there is no question of sportsmanship etc, he is not out as per laws of cricket.

 

[MMHS]

Sorry, I'm not sure exactly what you mean.

All that matters are two things:

A) Did he ground his bat before bails were dislodged?

B) Was the knocking of his bat deliberate?

If the answer to both these questions is no, then he is simply out.

If the answer to A is yes (that he grounded his bat before bails are dislodged) there is no question of sportsmanship etc, he is not out as per laws of cricket.

If A is yes, still batsman can be out. You’ll notice that these days, in tv reply batsmen are given out if at the moment of bails being dislodged his feet are in air & bat is out of personal touch, though he might have covered the ground.

Here, regarding the run out, from footage, I can’t tell if it was deliberate or not - fielder was running towards the bails; it could have been deliberate or accidental; only umpire can decide that. Here, he has given batsman out, so we know what he thought.

The role of umpire and referee is a bit different in sports. Umpire is an adjudicator, who runs the game as per law & gives decision on appeals. Theoretically, even for bowled, batsman can stand his ground until fielders appeal. For that, in cricket or tennis, Umpires can overrule their decisions on appeal. Referee runs the game in his own as per law - he is not supposed to response any appeal rather take decisions on own (or with his linesmen). In soccer, basketball or boxing, referee doesn’t change his verdict on appeal of players and you’ll see them taking time for their decision, may be with technical assistance - once given, it’s closed.

Coming to this incident- umpire gave batsman out, which indicates he judged the “knocking” accidental, so nothing against him (match referee can ask his explanation later on this, but that’s not part of this incidence). I don’t think umpire ever asked fielding side (or Talat) to rethink and in the footage every time I see him firm on his initial decision - in fact he didn’t make any communication with fielding sides at all.

Usman (nonstriker), thinks otherwise and he asked the fielding side to rethink their appeal, which again he is within rights. They didn’t and they are within the law - unsportsmanlike? Probably only Talat can tell that.

 

[Saj]

This tells you just how pathetic the standard of umpiring is in Pakistan when a first-class umpire does not know a basic rule.

Also poor cricket and sportsmanship from the SNGPL skipper and management.

 

[IMMY69]

That is a shocking piece of umpiring...

There is absolutely no way that that was out.

Plus extremely bad sportsmanship from the fielding side so bad that it is bordering on cheating.

 

[Square Drive]

That's poor from Talat from the look of things.

Need a clearer video to judge better.

 

[Bewal Express]

Common sense was required by the umpire. A stupid decision.

 

[Boi]

Isn't Hafeez the captain of SNGPL? Poor stuff from the professor, couldve easily withdrawn the appeal. What an idiot of an umpire though seriously

 

[HuzaifaE]

This is very different from "unsporting, but permissible" stuff like mankading, this is straight up wrong and unfair to the batsman, poor stuff.

 

[ManFan]

Need more ruthlessness like this in domestic cricket especially from the youngsters.

 

[kingusama92]

That's pathetic from Hussain Talat.

 

[kingusama92]

Need more ruthlessness like this in domestic cricket especially from the youngsters.

Ruthlessness doesn't mean you start cheating.

What next?

Chokeslam the batsman to get him out of the crease?

 

[ManFan]

Ruthlessness doesn't mean you start cheating.

What next?

Chokeslam the batsman to get him out of the crease?

No physical contact needed. Ruthlessness is a mentality not an action. The reason why Australia has been so good for so long is because they install this at a young age. All the other cricketing nations have this “ gentleman “ approach that yields them zilch. Kholi has been more aggressive but he won’t get support because of the precedent set by Tendulkar and Dravid of being soft-spoken softies.

 

[Syed1]

No physical contact needed. Ruthlessness is a mentality not an action. The reason why Australia has been so good for so long is because they install this at a young age. All the other cricketing nations have this “ gentleman “ approach that yields them zilch. Kholi has been more aggressive but he won’t get support because of the precedent set by Tendulkar and Dravid of being soft-spoken softies.

How ironic... So kicking the bat out of the batsman's hand doesn't fall under physical contact?

 

[kingusama92]

No physical contact needed. Ruthlessness is a mentality not an action. The reason why Australia has been so good for so long is because they install this at a young age. All the other cricketing nations have this “ gentleman “ approach that yields them zilch. Kholi has been more aggressive but he won’t get support because of the precedent set by Tendulkar and Dravid of being soft-spoken softies.

Cheating cannot be repackaged as ruthlessness or aggression.

I hold the same opinion about Kohli's brand of cricket. It's wonderful for the game and is far better than the timidness others show.

However, Talat's actions aren't even remotely close to that. It's plain cheating and on the level of claiming a dropped catch.

 

[ManFan]

From my viewing, it looked like it was an accident. It worked in the fielders favor anyhow.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

This tells you just how pathetic the standard of umpiring is in Pakistan when a first-class umpire does not know a basic rule.

Also poor cricket and sportsmanship from the SNGPL skipper and management.

What rule?

This is absolutely out.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

This is just like an unintentional backpass in football.

As long as it wasn't deliberate you get the benefit of it.

I don't see what's wrong here. Batsman bumped into a fielder so couldn't make his ground.

Fielder didn't do it deliberately in the view of the umpire, so it's out.

I won't get into sportsmanship or not but criticizing the umpire is 100% wrong and betrays lack of knoweldge of rules

 

[Hermoine Green]

Simply pathetic.
Well, Hafeez is a captain so it's not an astounding thing to be happened.

 

[Madplayer]

Summary of the story:

Its not unlawful but it would have been more graceful if the appeal wasn't made or was at least withdrawn later.

 

[daytrader]

It looks fair: he threw the ball while running towards the stumps plus the bat fell out of Usman's hand after the stumps broke. If there was a collision it was very minor and not intentional

 

[IMMY69]

Those calling it lawful don’t understand the game. It’s really as simple as that.

 

[IMMY69]

Those it calling it fair really need to understand what it is right and what is wrong... stop justifying pathetic umpiring and cheating

 

[CricketAnalyst]

Those it calling it fair really need to understand what it is right and what is wrong... stop justifying pathetic umpiring and cheating

Can people like you read a rulebook before criticizing the umpire?

His job is to apply rules of cricket, not morality as per the conception of random people.

This is out as per laws of cricket, umpire made no mistake.

Rest keep whining all you like about sportsmanship, but don't talk abt the umpire. You don't understand rules but that can't be reason to criticize a man doing his job correctly.

 

[kingusama92]

This is just like an unintentional backpass in football.

As long as it wasn't deliberate you get the benefit of it.

I don't see what's wrong here. Batsman bumped into a fielder so couldn't make his ground.

Fielder didn't do it deliberately in the view of the umpire, so it's out.

I won't get into sportsmanship or not but criticizing the umpire is 100% wrong and betrays lack of knoweldge of rules

What?

I'm not sure how anyone could defend this.

The ball is hit to the batsman's right. Talat picks up the ball and runs right through Usman's bat. That's illegal and deliberate. He goes right into the batsman's path.

Talat was more than capable of stopping and throwing from where he picked up the ball. Instead, he decides to charge through the bat.

Umpire is dead wrong and Talat deserves to be criticized for his lack of sportsmanship/cheating.

 

[CricketAnalyst]

What?

I'm not sure how anyone could defend this.

The ball is hit to the batsman's right. Talat picks up the ball and runs right through Usman's bat. That's illegal and deliberate. He goes right into the batsman's path.

Talat was more than capable of stopping and throwing from where he picked up the ball. Instead, he decides to charge through the bat.

Umpire is dead wrong and Talat deserves to be criticized for his lack of sportsmanship/cheating.

As long as Talat is just trying to knock stumps he is allowed to take the fastest route. There is no obligation for him to give way just because batsman is moving in that direction.

It didn't look deliberate at all to me and it would take some extraordinary skill to both knock his bat and knock the bails off in same motion.

Just a lucky accident for Talat and unlucky one for Usman.

 

[kingusama92]

As long as Talat is just trying to knock stumps he is allowed to take the fastest route. There is no obligation for him to give way just because batsman is moving in that direction.

It didn't look deliberate at all to me and it would take some extraordinary skill to both knock his bat and knock the bails off in same motion.

Just a lucky accident for Talat and unlucky one for Usman.

The fastest route can't impede the batsman's progress and certainly not knock the bat straight out of his hands. Just like a batsman can't impede the bowler's progress to the ball.

In this case, Usman has let the ball through.

However, Talat goes out of his way to make contact as he charges forward. He is completely in the wrong here.

 

[IMMY69]

Can people like you read a rulebook before criticizing the umpire?

His job is to apply rules of cricket, not morality as per the conception of random people.

This is out as per laws of cricket, umpire made no mistake.

Rest keep whining all you like about sportsmanship, but don't talk abt the umpire. You don't understand rules but that can't be reason to criticize a man doing his job correctly.

Can people like you try to understand the game before accusing others of not knowing the rules?

Do you even know what the Spirit of Cricket is and how they are a preamble to the laws?
Have you read these?

Honestly, if you understood the game then you wouldn't be here trying to argue your point.

 

[Madplayer]

Can people like you try to understand the game before accusing others of not knowing the rules?

Do you even know what the Spirit of Cricket is and how they are a preamble to the laws?
Have you read these?

Honestly, if you understood the game then you wouldn't be here trying to argue your point.

Being against the spirit of the game doesnt always translate into unlawful.

 

[MenInG]

Can people not get personal with each other. Keep your posts to just arguments about pro-cons of the matter

 

[IMMY69]

Being against the spirit of the game doesnt always translate into unlawful.

They do when they are the Preamble to the law.

 

[moghul]

Disgraceful act by Talat.

 

[IMMY69]

I could forgive Talat for doing this as he is young and wants to win. The problem is down to umpiring, the captain and the senior players who should be setting an example to the younger players.

 

[KyoOne]

Poor stuff. There is no way Usman was out.

One of the best domestic FC bats. Whites have been robbed of a wicket and potential win here.

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Poor from the SNGPL team. Who is their captain? Usman should have been called back.

 

[Saj]

I asked one of the Lahore players about this incident.

His reply was "Sir kya kar saktay Pakistan hai"

 

[Abdullah719]

Poor from the SNGPL team. Who is their captain? Usman should have been called back.

Mohammad Hafeez

 

[SarfiBabarHaris]

Mohammad Hafeez

ab samjh aye

 

[Fahdi]

Poor from the senior players as well. The captain should have shown more class.