[VIDEO] Saj's take on Australia v Pakistan: "It's 2023, but Pakistan are still playing cricket as if it's the 1990s"

[MenInG]

Saj with his usual no-nonsense incisive analysis on what went (and continues) to go wrong with Pakistan in the ICC World Cip 2023:

1. What went wrong against Australia?
2. Babar Azam's struggles at this World Cup.
3. Pakistan's batting approach at this World Cup.
5. The lack of batting firepower in Pakistan's line-up.
5. Can Pakistan turn around their recent form?

And the question on most Pakistan supporters' minds:

Can Pakistan still make the semi-finals?
Watch at:

 

[vprasanna83]

Incisive analysis. As Saj mentions , very difficult to see them qualify from here . And the game here in Chennai is surely a banana peel

 

[Major]

One topic you should had discussed was Babar Azam's captaincy.

I disagree with what you said that Pakistan are still playing 1990s cricket. Conventional cricket isnt bad, it helped NZ reach the finals and almost win it and even now NZ are playing conventional cricket, while England is terrible.

Infact, Pakistan played unconventional cricket when chasing the Lanka score and they wer batting at a good RR during the Australia game.

The issue is captaincy. When bowlers bowling well are removed from the attack, part timers bowling soo well are not allowed to complete overs, bowlers bowling bad get more overs than everyone else. Babar doesnt know how to stop the leaking of runs as captain. He can have 300 on board, and yet find away for the other team to chase it.

His field placement is all over the place.

We can bash the batting or bowling all we want, but the core of the problem is Babar's captaincy. Remove him as captain, and bring a better captain and things fix by themselves. A good captain would had done an immediate team change for the world cup after what we saw in the Asia cup with our spinners.

 

[rhony]

Saj with his usual no-nonsense incisive analysis on what went (and continues) to go wrong with Pakistan in the ICC World Cip 2023:

1. What went wrong against Australia?
2. Babar Azam's struggles at this World Cup.
3. Pakistan's batting approach at this World Cup.
5. The lack of batting firepower in Pakistan's line-up.
5. Can Pakistan turn around their recent form?

And the question on most Pakistan supporters' minds:

Can Pakistan still make the semi-finals?
Watch at:

Saj hit the nail on the head. I don't think anyon can plan a chase of 350 or 360 though. Chasing after winning the toss was a blunder and Usama's drop was the game killer. For me it's Pakistan's bowling that's been a surprise so far. A team that has always been a powerhouse in bowling conceded 345 runs to the Lankans too. I think Naseem Shah's loss although huge, can't remain an excuse forever. Where is that pipeline of bowlers that Pak always produced? This loss against Aussies wasnt a batting flop. Very rarely teams chase these kind of totals. Infact I don't think anyone in this world cup would have chased that against Aussies. Pakistan needs to sort out it's bowling soon if they are to be a SF contender.

 

[VForVendetta]

Spot on analysis @Saj. These guys are truly stuck in 1992 where Ramiz, Miandad & Imran were inexplicably accumulating for 40 overs every day irrespective of match situation. The problem is, in the current unit there's no Wasim, Inzy or Moin waiting to come & blast in last 10 overs. You can't expect a test specialist, an old uncle & couple of fraud all-rounders to repeat the feats that those genuine six hitters were doing 30 years ago.

 

[VForVendetta]

Saj hit the nail on the head. I don't think anyon can plan a chase of 350 or 360 though. Chasing after winning the toss was a blunder and Usama's drop was the game killer. For me it's Pakistan's bowling that's been a surprise so far. A team that has always been a powerhouse in bowling conceded 345 runs to the Lankans too. I think Naseem Shah's loss although huge, can't remain an excuse forever. Where is that pipeline of bowlers that Pak always produced? This loss against Aussies wasnt a batting flop. Very rarely teams chase these kind of totals. Infact I don't think anyone in this world cup would have chased that against Aussies. Pakistan needs to sort out it's bowling soon if they are to be a SF contender.

Captain genius is the main culprit, he refused to draft a couple of decent alternatives simply because those guys refused to be his stooges. He is solely responsible for this mess of a bowling attack who always used to be Pak's biggest strength.

 

[Savak]

Misbah and Hafeez in the Cricket Committee meeting wanted Shadab, Nawaz replaced with better spinners but Babar refused and wanted his team. Babar should be put in front of the National Assembly and be put through a thorough examination

 

[Saj]

Misbah and Hafeez in the Cricket Committee meeting wanted Shadab, Nawaz replaced with better spinners but Babar refused and wanted his team. Babar should be put in front of the National Assembly and be put through a thorough examination

As I have said before, this is Babar's squad.

It makes me laugh when people say but Babar has to bat slowly as he has no faith in his other batters.

If he has no faith, why select them.

 

[Saj]

The problem is, in the current unit there's no Wasim, Inzy or Moin waiting to come & blast in last 10 overs

So true.

Nawaz at 7, so what do they expect.

The batting approach and line-up is a shambles.

 

[PakHammer]

Misbah and Hafeez in the Cricket Committee meeting wanted Shadab, Nawaz replaced with better spinners but Babar refused and wanted his team. Babar should be put in front of the National Assembly and be put through a thorough examination

Do we know who the spinners were? My guess would be Imad & Abrar?

 

[Savak]

As I have said before, this is Babar's squad.

It makes me laugh when people say but Babar has to bat slowly as he has no faith in his other batters.

If he has no faith, why select them.

Dosti Yaari

 

[pakistani pride]

Spot on.
Send this to PCT.

 

[Farabi]

One topic you should had discussed was Babar Azam's captaincy.

I disagree with what you said that Pakistan are still playing 1990s cricket. Conventional cricket isnt bad, it helped NZ reach the finals and almost win it and even now NZ are playing conventional cricket, while England is terrible.

Infact, Pakistan played unconventional cricket when chasing the Lanka score and they wer batting at a good RR during the Australia game.

The issue is captaincy. When bowlers bowling well are removed from the attack, part timers bowling soo well are not allowed to complete overs, bowlers bowling bad get more overs than everyone else. Babar doesnt know how to stop the leaking of runs as captain. He can have 300 on board, and yet find away for the other team to chase it.

His field placement is all over the place.

We can bash the batting or bowling all we want, but the core of the problem is Babar's captaincy. Remove him as captain, and bring a better captain and things fix by themselves. A good captain would had done an immediate team change for the world cup after what we saw in the Asia cup with our spinners.

+1 Completely aligned here.
The analysis misses the point a point a bit and focuses too much on power hitting, as do most Pakistanis. But it’s not the only way to win.
At 38 over mark, Pakistan and Aus were pretty much neck to neck. I think Aus score was at 280 odd at that point while Pak was 265. And Aus didn’t play last 10 overs well.

There is no need for power hitting and Pak can win the World Cup without powerhitting. You are right that NZ is a great example of a side that does really well without power hitting.

The real problems are:

1. Captaincy. I won’t repeat because you’re spot on.
2. Lack of wicket taking spinner in India like Kuldeep and Zampa. Related to no1, Babar doesn’t go for 10 wickets and he’s more than content with darters.
3. Match awareness. Like Marsh and Warner did, Pakistan should have attacked Zampa in front of the wicket. With dew, the ball was skidding on and with his flatter trajectory, and he wanted Pakistani batters to sweep and pull, so he could zip one through. Our batters Mashallah did exactly what he wanted. Rizzy, Ifti and Babar all got out because they were beaten by pace/Zip of Zampa and ball keeping low. They should have taken Zampa in the front like Imam did. Small boundary and ball not even spinning. We were in the game for 90 overs and it’s that phase we were punched out.

 

[owenhcricket]

One topic you should had discussed was Babar Azam's captaincy.

I disagree with what you said that Pakistan are still playing 1990s cricket. Conventional cricket isnt bad, it helped NZ reach the finals and almost win it and even now NZ are playing conventional cricket, while England is terrible.

Infact, Pakistan played unconventional cricket when chasing the Lanka score and they wer batting at a good RR during the Australia game.

The issue is captaincy. When bowlers bowling well are removed from the attack, part timers bowling soo well are not allowed to complete overs, bowlers bowling bad get more overs than everyone else. Babar doesnt know how to stop the leaking of runs as captain. He can have 300 on board, and yet find away for the other team to chase it.

His field placement is all over the place.

We can bash the batting or bowling all we want, but the core of the problem is Babar's captaincy. Remove him as captain, and bring a better captain and things fix by themselves. A good captain would had done an immediate team change for the world cup after what we saw in the Asia cup with our spinners.

Very good point!

If Pakistan are playing cricket from the 90s then teams in the 90s must have regularly been scoring in excess of 270.

The problem is sub par captaincy and sadly a bowling unit woefully out of form. Shaheen regained some form but Haris looks terribly unequipped to be bowling 10 overs without Naseem and Hasan Ali is doing ok but lacks bite when the ball gets older.

A lot of this is caveated by a very bad dropped catch...losing to Australia off the back of that on a useless wicket isn't as bad as England getting humiliated twice or losing to India in a toothless manner.

 

[Technics 1210]

The fascination with pelting the ball in the 0-10 PP phase needs to stop. For one, fans are drunk on T20 style innings thinking the same can be replicated in ODIs, and for two, scoring big in 0-10 PP phase doesn't guarantee a win, nor is there any concrete evidence that number of runs in 0-10 PP phase is proportional to the probability of a win.

Look at today's SA v ENG game, South Africa were 256-5 after 40 overs, then plundered 143 runs from the last 10 overs, and 84 from the FINAL 5 overs!

ODI batting is all about knowing when to accelerate and decelerate an innings! SA played it to perfection, and it was a simple case of science. Jos Buttler's decision to bowl first was the wrong one and it had nothing to do with the wickets etc, it was a cardinal error - to field first in the heat and humidity!

England bowlers were knackered by the 40th over, SA took advantage, and then the English batting failed because they were tired and trying to hit the ball out the park in the 1st 10 overs!

Point being, conventional approach, with emphasis on strike rotation, and dispatching bad balls, is the best approach and will remain fundamental no matter how the ODI game develops. Cricket is a mind game, not a boundaries game, and sometimes we tend to forget the physics - Energy and Endurance in the longer format of the game.

What does change is, as mentioned, the captaincy. Pakistan's challenges range from mindset to captaincy. Pakistan is now regularly scoring 300+ whether chasing or not, chased 350+, and remember set 350 in CT17 final too! So absolutely no similarities with the 1990s style what so ever, other than poor performances are attributed to captaincy and mindset, which has always been the case in Cricket.

Babar is a quality batsman, but he is a hopeless captain, and it shows. The team just seem to be lost. Their minds and bodies detached! Something which power hitting will never rectify!

 

[mominsaigol]

Tbf, this world cup has exposed all these 1990 era wannabies like root, Williamson, Smith, Babar etc.

 

[Major]

The shadab and nawaz decision is like the usman shinwaro decidion back in the 2019 world cup.

Usman shinwari was the highest wicket taker back than. The team managment had the option to take him in the squad but they never did. Because even though Shinwari was the highest wixket taker at the time but everyone knew he will get attacked as his line and length sucked.

Similar decision could had been made by pakistan.

A good captain and coach can identify the issue beforehand.

 

[daytrader]

If at least our fielding had improved from 1992 to today's standards, we could've won this game. Warner's dropped catch turned out to be so crucial

 

[Suleiman]

Doesn’t matter what XI Pakistan plays, Australia have us sweating every time they play.

2015 WC- Rahat drop
2023 WC- Mir drop

Both were shitting their pants and dropped the catch of the same batsman that would bat us out of the match.

I’m not pointing this out as some woo woo coincidence. But to to show that whenever we take the field Vs Australia, more often than not our guys are quaking in their boots.

And this manifests as dropped catches and getting out to nothing deliveries.

Just like we do Vs india.

 

[Saj]

Sadly some people still think that this bunch of players is capable of smashing it to all parts in the last 10 overs like South Africa did.

And apparently we don't need power-hitting as long as we keep wickets in hand, everything will be fine.

Look at the teams who are doing well with the bat and the way they approach batting. They don't scratch around, packing their team with nudgers.

 

[Saj]

Incisive analysis. As Saj mentions , very difficult to see them qualify from here . And the game here in Chennai is surely a banana peel

Huge banana skin.

Afghans will fancy their chances against a team that has lost its last 2 matches especially on a surface that suits spin.

 

[Saj]

One topic you should had discussed was Babar Azam's captaincy.

The first thing I mentioned was the toss and his decision to bowl first.

In previous videos I have spoken at length about his flaws as skipper - don't want to keep saying the same things again and again

 

[Saj]

Captain genius is the main culprit, he refused to draft a couple of decent alternatives simply because those guys refused to be his stooges. He is solely responsible for this mess of a bowling attack who always used to be Pak's biggest strength.

His squad, his starting XI.

No place to hide for him at the moment.

As I said before, if Pakistan don't reach the semi-finals in this tournament, he has to step down as skipper.

 

[vprasanna83]

His squad, his starting XI.

No place to hide for him at the moment.

As I said before, if Pakistan don't reach the semi-finals in this tournament, he has to step down as skipper.

Honestly , stepping down as skipper might be the best thing that happened to Babar the batsman .

 

[owenhcricket]

The fascination with pelting the ball in the 0-10 PP phase needs to stop. For one, fans are drunk on T20 style innings thinking the same can be replicated in ODIs, and for two, scoring big in 0-10 PP phase doesn't guarantee a win, nor is there any concrete evidence that number of runs in 0-10 PP phase is proportional to the probability of a win.

Look at today's SA v ENG game, South Africa were 256-5 after 40 overs, then plundered 143 runs from the last 10 overs, and 84 from the FINAL 5 overs!

ODI batting is all about knowing when to accelerate and decelerate an innings! SA played it to perfection, and it was a simple case of science. Jos Buttler's decision to bowl first was the wrong one and it had nothing to do with the wickets etc, it was a cardinal error - to field first in the heat and humidity!

England bowlers were knackered by the 40th over, SA took advantage, and then the English batting failed because they were tired and trying to hit the ball out the park in the 1st 10 overs!

Point being, conventional approach, with emphasis on strike rotation, and dispatching bad balls, is the best approach and will remain fundamental no matter how the ODI game develops. Cricket is a mind game, not a boundaries game, and sometimes we tend to forget the physics - Energy and Endurance in the longer format of the game.

What does change is, as mentioned, the captaincy. Pakistan's challenges range from mindset to captaincy. Pakistan is now regularly scoring 300+ whether chasing or not, chased 350+, and remember set 350 in CT17 final too! So absolutely no similarities with the 1990s style what so ever, other than poor performances are attributed to captaincy and mindset, which has always been the case in Cricket.

Babar is a quality batsman, but he is a hopeless captain, and it shows. The team just seem to be lost. Their minds and bodies detached! Something which power hitting will never rectify!

Great post! Thanks you.

@MenInG may i nominate this as POTW?

 

[Saj]

Look at today's SA v ENG game, South Africa were 256-5 after 40 overs, then plundered 143 runs from the last 10 overs, and 84 from the FINAL 5 overs!

With our batters, we can only dream of being 256/5 after 50 overs.

In fact 156/5 after 40 overs seems to be more our standard.

 

[Farabi]

Sadly some people still think that this bunch of players is capable of smashing it to all parts in the last 10 overs like South Africa did.

And apparently we don't need power-hitting as long as we keep wickets in hand, everything will be fine.

Look at the teams who are doing well with the bat and the way they approach batting. They don't scratch around, packing their team with nudgers.

That would be straw man argument.
Teams can easily rack up 7 RPO with conventional cricket these days on good pitches like these. While it would be great to have power hitting, Pak team can still win without it if they show better tactics and game awareness.
Despite hitting hardly any sixes, Pak was still in the hunt chasing 367. If you need 105 runs from 72 balls with 6 wickets in hand, you should get there at least 6 times out of 10. But our boys panicked and lacked awareness on how to manage Zampa.
Power hitting is a must for no6 and 7 though.

 

[Saj]

7 RPO with conventional cricket these days on good pitches like these.

Some teams, not all.

Some teams can only dream of such numbers against good bowling attacks.

Against the likes of Nepal - anyone can do it.

 

[Aham Brahmasmi]

Pakistan was known for its aggressive and entertaining cricket during 90s era,
With pace bowling being a hallmark always.Pakistan has also produced world-class spinners, including legends like Abdul Qadir and Saqlain Mushtaq.
Pak can produce splendid wins but also face deflating defeats. This unpredictability tag made them an exciting team to watch along with comical fielding efforts which gave birth to many memes on social media.They just need an aggressive and bold leader like Imran Khan who can have full control over the team and who provides that feeling of a father like figure than a captain. Babar would be better off being a batsman ala sachin.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Spot on analysis from Saj as usual. Batting is full of snails playing for personal milestones. No quality late order hitters. So the whole keep wicketd in hand plan makes no sense. Plastic fake all rounders in the team, no quality spinner.

Babar needs to be sacked after work cup and from all formats as well.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

Spot on analysis from Saj as usual. Batting is full of snails playing for personal milestones. No quality late order hitters. So the whole keep wicketd in hand plan makes no sense. Plastic fake all rounders in the team, no quality spinner.

Babar needs to be sacked after work cup and from all formats as well.

yes he is a terrible captain with deffensive mindset, we cant win a sigle match with this idealogy.

 

[W63L35]

Comparing performance (S/R and Average) of top six Pakistani batsmen in this (2023) and last 5 world cup tournaments (1999, 2003, 2007, 2011, 2015) with the other teams in the respective tournament.

1999 World Cup - Captain Wasim Akram:


2003 World Cup - Captain Waqar Younis:


2007 World Cup - Captain Inzimam Ul Haq:



2011 World Cup - Captian Shahid Afridi:




2015 World Cup - Captain Misbah Ul Haq:






2019 World Cup - Captain Sarfraz Ahmed:





2023 World Cup - Captain Babar Azam:





So our top six batsmen.
12th (in 14 teams) in S/R in 2015.
6th (in 10 teams) in S/R in 2019.
3rd (in 14 teams) in S/R in 2023.

11th (in 14 teams) in Ave in 2015.
6th (in 10 teams) in Ave in 2019.
3rd (in 14 teams) in Ave in 2023.


I'll let everybody draw their own conclusions...

Yes, I know, this World Cup is not not even half way done yet.

 

[W63L35]

Anybody with cricket knowedge and expertise, please compare Babar's captaincy and Jos Butler's captaincy in this World Cup?
Considering England are the current champion and were 2nd favorite at the start of the tournament.

Are England fans upset at Jos as mush as we are upset at Babar?

 

[Dr_Bassim]

That would be straw man argument.
Teams can easily rack up 7 RPO with conventional cricket these days on good pitches like these. While it would be great to have power hitting, Pak team can still win without it if they show better tactics and game awareness.
Despite hitting hardly any sixes, Pak was still in the hunt chasing 367. If you need 105 runs from 72 balls with 6 wickets in hand, you should get there at least 6 times out of 10. But our boys panicked and lacked awareness on how to manage Zampa.
Power hitting is a must for no6 and 7 though.

Pakistan was never in the hunt.

105 off 72 balls is close to 9 runs an over for 12 overs.

This is not Nepal bowling that you would achieve it 6 out of 10 times.

It would be achieved 1 time out of 10 by a freak innings by a capable batsmen.

The fact that Pakistan started a RRR of 7.3 and by the time both openers were dismissed, the RRR was 8.5 runs per over and people were going gaa gaa goo goo over the opening stand tells me that people have NO IDEA how hard it is to score for 9 runs an over continuously for 30 overs.

Or perhaps it is easy if you are used to facing Sean Abbots, Travis Heads, Junior Dala, Muzarbanis and associate Nepalese bowlers.

No Pathirana to help reach the target yesterday either.

 

[Farabi]

Pakistan was never in the hunt.

105 off 72 balls is close to 9 runs an over for 12 overs.

This is not Nepal bowling that you would achieve it 6 out of 10 times.

It would be achieved 1 time out of 10 by a freak innings by a capable batsmen.

The fact that Pakistan started a RRR of 7.3 and by the time both openers were dismissed, the RRR was 8.5 runs per over and people were going gaa gaa goo goo over the opening stand tells me that people have NO IDEA how hard it is to score for 9 runs an over continuously for 30 overs.

Or perhaps it is easy if you are used to facing Sean Abbots, Travis Heads, Junior Dala, Muzarbanis and associate Nepalese bowlers.

No Pathirana to help reach the target yesterday either.

This is a minnow mentality. Australia has conceded 400 twice this year and their bowling has been under the pump lately. Their death over run rate has been over 10 in 2023, which is one of the worse.

Both Starc snd Cummins were smoked throughout the match. This was a graveyard for bowlers. There was massive dew. AND, Pakistan was gonna get 1 extra fielder inside for 3 overs.

Also, we did manage 8.5 for 30 overs, because RRR was 8.75 in last 12 overs.


It was our game to lose from that point onwards. A set and in form Rizwan along with Saud and Ifti. 6 out of 10 times is conservative. I would say 8 out of times we should have got there.

We panicked and didn’t manage Zampa well. Ifti could have seen off Zampa and feasted on pacers. Poor game awareness and minnow mentality cost us the game.

 

[owenhcricket]

With our batters, we can only dream of being 256/5 after 50 overs.

In fact 156/5 after 40 overs seems to be more our standard.

In 19 innings this year, Pakistan have scored 280+ 10 times, 6 of those scores being 300+ including a CWC world record chase.

The idea that Pakistan can't bat fast enough is inaccurate.

 

[owenhcricket]

This is a minnow mentality. Australia has conceded 400 twice this year and their bowling has been under the pump lately. Their death over run rate has been over 10 in 2023, which is one of the worse.

Both Starc snd Cummins were smoked throughout the match. This was a graveyard for bowlers. There was massive dew. AND, Pakistan was gonna get 1 extra fielder inside for 3 overs.

Also, we did manage 8.5 for 30 overs, because RRR was 8.75 in last 12 overs.


It was our game to lose from that point onwards. A set and in form Rizwan along with Saud and Ifti. 6 out of 10 times is conservative. I would say 8 out of times we should have got there.

We panicked and didn’t manage Zampa well. Ifti could have seen off Zampa and feasted on pacers. Poor game awareness and minnow mentality cost us the game.

Minnow mentality is a silly statement but there was certainly a lack of game awareness. Ifty had hit 3 sixes and then sat back with that silly shot against Zampa, when on that final ball he could have taken a single or just blocked it.

Rizwan was unlucky with an LBW that was 50/50.

Agreed completely that till the 37th or so over, Pakistan were well within reach of YET ANOTHER world record chase. Just because they dont hit monster sixes from the first ball doesnt mean they cant score quickly enough.

It would help however having Ifty up the order and another striker at the top..

 

[Dr_Bassim]

This is a minnow mentality. Australia has conceded 400 twice this year and their bowling has been under the pump lately. Their death over run rate has been over 10 in 2023, which is one of the worse.

Both Starc snd Cummins were smoked throughout the match. This was a graveyard for bowlers. There was massive dew. AND, Pakistan was gonna get 1 extra fielder inside for 3 overs.

Also, we did manage 8.5 for 30 overs, because RRR was 8.75 in last 12 overs.


It was our game to lose from that point onwards. A set and in form Rizwan along with Saud and Ifti. 6 out of 10 times is conservative. I would say 8 out of times we should have got there.

We panicked and didn’t manage Zampa well. Ifti could have seen off Zampa and feasted on pacers. Poor game awareness and minnow mentality cost us the game.

All this revisionism looks nice and since you made the odds 8 out of 10 from 6, tell me how many times has 370 been chased in a World Cup?

And also tell me how many times it has been chased in history of ODI?

And before you quote me the Sri Lanka match, I saw the dross they dished out.

If the answer to first 2 questions is NO and only 2-3 times in history of ODI, do you honestly believe that Pakistan team is that good that it would have done it several times ?

If however, you honestly believe this team is the best batting team in history of Pakistan cricket who can score 370 runs regularly, you have to answer how they failed to score 300 vs Netherlands or India for that matter.

Or, how they lose 8 for 36 vs India and around 6 for 36 vs Australia in 2 consecutive days.

Its easy to pretend Pakistan were about to make history in the World Cup.

Its much harder to defend the actual output of the team and ignore fairy tale potential endings that might have happened if the team had done this and that.

 

[Technics 1210]

England were firm favourites to make it to the SFs, and even go beyond.

England have played 4 games, lost 3, won 1, thus far.

England were all out chasing twice, for under 215, and one loss was against Afghanistan whose bowling is worse than SL,

England couldn't get past 285 when batting first vs NZ, and lost that match too.

England could only go past 350 vs Bangladesh, the only win thus far. I guess Bangladesh bowling is dross too.

England, the team that was meant to continue with its golden generation of ODI players, World Cup defending champions, all the money, skill, experience, training, fitness, talent, help, guidance, aggressive players, and science, in the world - now languishing 9th in the table.

Is England playing 90s cricket? Cos the 90s England team were really bad! Or are they going all guns blazing during the 0-10 PP in 2023 thinking they can wrap up the game quick time but in reality it ends up costing them early wickets which only adds to the pressure, and ultimately they collapse?

Lets not forget SA, chasing a sub 250 score vs Netherlands, but miserably failed to smack the ball out the ground with short boundaries, in the 0-10 PP phase, vs Netherlands! Netherlands bowling is one of the WORST among all teams! This is the same NL team in the same match that were 170 odd for 7 until plundering 80 odd runs for the next wicket vs SA's top class bowling unit!

Pakistan is doing reasonably well in both batting and bowling departments, but fielding has to improve drastically, but above all, mindset, because from what I have seen, there are very promising signs with the Pakistan batting in this WC.

Alas! If Pakistan is playing 90s cricket, then some of the so called better teams are playing 80s cricket!

 

[Farabi]

All this revisionism looks nice and since you made the odds 8 out of 10 from 6, tell me how many times has 370 been chased in a World Cup?

And also tell me how many times it has been chased in history of ODI?

And before you quote me the Sri Lanka match, I saw the dross they dished out.

If the answer to first 2 questions is NO and only 2-3 times in history of ODI, do you honestly believe that Pakistan team is that good that it would have done it several times ?

If however, you honestly believe this team is the best batting team in history of Pakistan cricket who can score 370 runs regularly, you have to answer how they failed to score 300 vs Netherlands or India for that matter.

Or, how they lose 8 for 36 vs India and around 6 for 36 vs Australia in 2 consecutive days.

Its easy to pretend Pakistan were about to make history in the World Cup.

Its much harder to defend the actual output of the team and ignore fairy tale potential endings that might have happened if the team had done this and that.

Look, there are two things here.
1. This is the highest scoring World Cup I’ve seen since 1996. We have already seen several 350+ run fests. 350 feels more like 300 these days.
2. It’s not a question of whether we can chase 370. On that day, at 38 over mark, we were in the hunt. In today’s day and age, you have to be able to get 8.7 RPO for 10 overs with 6 wickets in hand. We didn’t believe.

 

[hitthestump]

I don't agree at all that this is 1990's cricket. That's an overused cliche. I mean we've chased 350 lol.

Even despite having limited lofted strokeplay our batsmen are still getting us to comparable scores. There is more than one way to skin a cat. The lack of sixes is more of a cosmetic issue rather than a fundemental one.

The far bigger issue is the bowling. Shaheen has looked toothless until the last game, Hasan Ali is bang average, Rauf is getting humiliated, none of our spinners can buy a wicket.

The batting is under fire yet the bowling isn't getting the heat it should be. For a team with traditionally good LOI bowling, i think this is what is missing so badly in this WC.

 

[Farabi]

Minnow mentality is a silly statement but there was certainly a lack of game awareness. Ifty had hit 3 sixes and then sat back with that silly shot against Zampa, when on that final ball he could have taken a single or just blocked it.

Rizwan was unlucky with an LBW that was 50/50.

Agreed completely that till the 37th or so over, Pakistan were well within reach of YET ANOTHER world record chase. Just because they dont hit monster sixes from the first ball doesnt mean they cant score quickly enough.

It would help however having Ifty up the order and another striker at the top..

We do have a minnow mentality. If it were one of the big teams, they wouldn’t question themselves about chasing 367 on a flat road.

Rizwan wasn’t unlucky. It was bad play from him. He played into Zampa’s hands.

 

[Farabi]

I don't agree at all that this is 1990's cricket. That's an overused cliche. I mean we've chased 350 lol.

Even despite having limited lofted strokeplay our batsmen are still getting us to comparable scores. There is more than one way to skin a cat. The lack of sixes is more of a cosmetic issue rather than a fundemental one.

The far bigger issue is the bowling. Shaheen has looked toothless until the last game, Hasan Ali is bang average, Rauf is getting humiliated, none of our spinners can buy a wicket.

The batting is under fire yet the bowling isn't getting the heat it should be. For a team with traditionally good LOI bowling, i think this is what is missing so badly in this WC.

Exactly! The focus should be on the bowling. Why were we chasing 367. In the last 5 games on this ground, the par score was 305.

 

[owenhcricket]

We do have a minnow mentality. If it were one of the big teams, they wouldn’t question themselves about chasing 367 on a flat road.

Rizwan wasn’t unlucky. It was bad play from him. He played into Zampa’s hands.

Na that's silly but I won't go further as I agree with most of what you said.

 

[Farabi]

Na that's silly but I won't go further as I agree with most of what you said.

All this revisionism looks nice and since you made the odds 8 out of 10 from 6, tell me how many times has 370 been chased in a World Cup?

And also tell me how many times it has been chased in history of ODI?

And before you quote me the Sri Lanka match, I saw the dross they dished out.

If the answer to first 2 questions is NO and only 2-3 times in history of ODI, do you honestly believe that Pakistan team is that good that it would have done it several times ?

If however, you honestly believe this team is the best batting team in history of Pakistan cricket who can score 370 runs regularly, you have to answer how they failed to score 300 vs Netherlands or India for that matter.

Or, how they lose 8 for 36 vs India and around 6 for 36 vs Australia in 2 consecutive days.

Its easy to pretend Pakistan were about to make history in the World Cup.

Its much harder to defend the actual output of the team and ignore fairy tale potential endings that might have happened if the team had done this and that.

Boss, you saw what Ifti did today. Didn’t do anything stupid and saw off Rashid and now cashing in on pacers, which is his match up (150 SR vs pace and 84 SR vs Spin). This is exactly where his game awareness lacked vs Zampa the other day.

 

[Saj]

I don't agree at all that this is 1990's cricket. That's an overused cliche. I mean we've chased 350 lol.

Against a bowling attack that is missing most of its main bowlers and would probably struggle against most associate nations at the moment.

 

[Saj]

In 19 innings this year, Pakistan have scored 280+ 10 times, 6 of those scores being 300+ including a CWC world record chase.

The idea that Pakistan can't bat fast enough is inaccurate.

Look at the opposition.

Look at the players they had missing.

 

[owenhcricket]

Look at the opposition.

Look at the players they had missing.

Not good enough. I posted previously about the teams in detail, i wont repeat it here but for e.g. the NZ side that Pak beat had 6 o r 7 of the current world cup team.

Pakistan fans need to learn to criticise the current without disregarding the past. Otherwise we go down the route of some ridiculous people who say "every pakistan win is a fluke" lol

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Slow cricket today again.

These 280 scores arent good enough.

I hope people will wake up soon instead of that building nonsense.

 

[Saj]

Slow cricket today again.

These 280 scores arent good enough.

I hope people will wake up soon instead of that building nonsense.

No brother.

This is the right way, the perfect way to bat according to some. Look at the strike-rates of the top 5 today!

Look at how easily Afghanistan chased the below-par target.

 

[Farabi]

280 was a good total on this ground. Start of the day, we would have taken this total vs Noor, Mujeeb, Rashid, and Nabi on turning track. If Afghanistan posted 280, they would have most likely defended it.
The bowling is to be blamed here. Hassan Ali, Usama, Shadab, and Rauf were all bang average.

 

[Saj]

Pakistan's batting today:

100/1 from 20 overs
200/4 from 41.1 overs

First 100 in 20 overs
Next 100 in 21.1 overs

Once again leaving any acceleration & aggression to the last few overs. No pressure on the opposition bowlers until the end of the innings

 

[Saj]

When you let someone like Nabi (with all due respect) bowl 10 overs without any pressure put on him, conceding just 31 runs, then there is something wrong with your approach and the way you bat.

 

[Amjid Javed]

When you let someone like Nabi (with all due respect) bowl 10 overs without any pressure put on him, conceding just 31 runs, then there is something wrong with your approach and the way you bat.

The one pace batting inns yet again was a shambles.

Anyone would have thought Afghanistan had prime warne and murali bowling for them the way out batsmen clueless were patting balls back like someone had tossed a grenade at them.

 

[Farabi]

If we cannot defend 282 on this wicket vs Afghanistan, then we have no business in this world cup. We keep blaming the batting, which has been respectable. Here is the bowling performances recently:
352 vs India
252 vs SL in 42 overs
340 NZ in 40 overs
350 Vs Aus
344 Vs SL
190/3 vs India in 30 overs
367 vs Aus
286 - 2 v Afghanistan

 

[Saj]

If we cannot defend 282 on this wicket vs Afghanistan, then we have no business in this world cup. We keep blaming the batting, which has been respectable. Here is the bowling performances recently:
352 vs India
252 vs SL in 42 overs
340 NZ in 40 overs
350 Vs Aus
344 Vs SL
190/3 vs India in 30 overs
367 vs Aus
286 - 2 v Afghanistan

It's obvious it's not just the batting.

The whole team is a mess, but the batting approach is also an issue that cannot be overlooked.

 

[160KPH]

But.. in the 90s we had good spinners
It’s been downhill since Saqlain Musthaq but at least Hafeez, Afridi, and Ajmal would choke the run rate and put the pressure on you. I’ve never seen a more toothless spin bowling department in Pakistan’s history. Batsmen know that unless we score like 350, they can play off the good balls because the bad ones will come and if one bowler manages to bowl good, then the spinners will come and destroy all the progress we made.

 

[Technics 1210]

On a side point, Afghanistan clearly used the conventional ODI approach and chased down 280+ with such ease.

They kept wickets in hand, rotated the strike, and dispatches bad balls.

 

[Farabi]

It's obvious it's not just the batting.

The whole team is a mess, but the batting approach is also an issue that cannot be overlooked.

I completely agree that batting needs to improve if we want to compete with the best.

 

[Saj]

On a side point, Afghanistan clearly used the conventional ODI approach and chased down 280+ with such ease.

They kept wickets in hand, rotated the strike, and dispatches bad balls.

They were 130/0 after 21 overs and had smashed the Pakistani bowlers to all parts.

That left them to score 150 in 29 overs with 10 wickets in hand.

As easy and as comfortable as you like after such a good and attacking start.

 

[jnaveen1980]

They were 130/0 after 21 overs and had smashed the Pakistani bowlers to all parts.

That left them to score 150 in 29 overs with 10 wickets in hand.

As easy and as comfortable as you like after such a good and attacking start.

Similar to how Rohit took down the new ball threat at Dharamsala. People just look at the numbers. They forget how much the psyche of an opposition gets impacted when you attack like that. They are forced to make bowling changes. They end up using bowlers earlier than they should. It completely changes the dynamics. These are some of the intangible factors. Today Pakistan had to use up a lot of overs from hasan/shaheen and haris very early.

 

[Saj]

People just look at the numbers. They forget how much the psyche of an opposition gets impacted when you attack like that.

Exactly and this is what some just don't get despite the embarrassment of this World Cup campaign so far.

 

[kumjsr]

Irrespective of the result, how a team be scoring at less than 4 rpo when they are hardly 1 down?

5 overs - 26/0
Next 5 overs - 30/0
Next 5 overs - 22/1
Next 5 overs - 22/0
Next 5 overs - 20/1
Next 5 overs - 19/1

139/3 was very poor score in 30 overs.

What kind of cricket is this where losing wicket means scoring at 3.5-4.5 RPO and not losing wicket means 5-6 RPO?

 

[BouncerGuy]

Gautam Gambhir said:

The third concern is Pakistan's batting. Pakistan's top five batters are similar types of batters. They don't have a batter apart from Iftikhar Ahmed who can take the game head-on,"

"Cricket has moved on. Cricket is not the same as it was in the 1990s or 2011, where you score 270 or 280 runs and think that your bowling will defend that. Two new balls, flat wickets, five fielders within the circle, you will have to play proactive and attacking cricket,"​

 

[jnaveen1980]

Gautam Gambhir said:

The third concern is Pakistan's batting. Pakistan's top five batters are similar types of batters. They don't have a batter apart from Iftikhar Ahmed who can take the game head-on,"

"Cricket has moved on. Cricket is not the same as it was in the 1990s or 2011, where you score 270 or 280 runs and think that your bowling will defend that. Two new balls, flat wickets, five fielders within the circle, you will have to play proactive and attacking cricket,"​

One of the reason i backed Ifti despite his severe limitations because he is the only one who has a top gear that is far better than other Pak batsmen. Unfortunately he is not a pedigree batsman. A journey man at best. On his day he score a cameo. But he is no Klassen. Pakistan's batting structure is very very poor. They need to kick out atleast 2 guys from the top.

 

[Saj]

Irrespective of the result, how a team be scoring at less than 4 rpo when they are hardly 1 down?

5 overs - 26/0
Next 5 overs - 30/0
Next 5 overs - 22/1
Next 5 overs - 22/0
Next 5 overs - 20/1
Next 5 overs - 19/1

139/3 was very poor score in 30 overs.

What kind of cricket is this where losing wicket means scoring at 3.5-4.5 RPO and not losing wicket means 5-6 RPO?

But this is what some fans are happy with.

Don't you dare blame the batters they say.

 

[Savak]

Who are the batters in our domestic cricket who can play modern cricket?

Muhammad Hurraira, Saim Ayub, Mohammad Harris?

Let's face it, most of our domestic cricket is filled with inconsistent hacks who lack 360 degree stroke play

 

[I think therfore I am]

Dumb ass captain. The ball was showing signs of reversing and he brings his match winning spin twins.

Crap field placements and the most important thing wrong team selection.

Babr flops against full strength high quality opposition. Send him OZ or NZ D teams and he will pile on the runs. Also will be phenomenal against Nepal and WI.

 

[FearlessRoar]

I agree with Saj. Pakistan is not playing modern day cricket. Afghanistan, they don't even have proper infrastructure and facilities, their players are playing modern day cricket with innovative skills.

 

[Hassan A]

Abdul Razzaq speaking about Pakistan's tactics in the defeat against Afghanistan:

"This is not cricket. You are scoring 270 against such teams, target should be around 350. This should have been your approach. They say Babar doesn't know captaincy then what are the people in management doing? They should help him out. What are they writing stats,"
​

 

[Saj]

Teams are looking for totals of 350 plus.

Meanwhile our guys look at 280 as a good score.

 

[Saj]

Gautam Gambhir said:


One of the reason i backed Ifti despite his severe limitations because he is the only one who has a top gear that is far better than other Pak batsmen. Unfortunately he is not a pedigree batsman. A journey man at best. On his day he score a cameo. But he is no Klassen. Pakistan's batting structure is very very poor. They need to kick out atleast 2 guys from the top.

I do feel a bit sorry for him, but he seems to be the only one who is willing to attack the opposition bowlers on a regular basis and not bat for himself.

 

[Abdullah]

Saj hit the nail on the head. I don't think anyon can plan a chase of 350 or 360 though. Chasing after winning the toss was a blunder and Usama's drop was the game killer. For me it's Pakistan's bowling that's been a surprise so far. A team that has always been a powerhouse in bowling conceded 345 runs to the Lankans too. I think Naseem Shah's loss although huge, can't remain an excuse forever. Where is that pipeline of bowlers that Pak always produced? This loss against Aussies wasnt a batting flop. Very rarely teams chase these kind of totals. Infact I don't think anyone in this world cup would have chased that against Aussies. Pakistan needs to sort out it's bowling soon if they are to be a SF contender.

I'm disagreeing here.
We got the Aus chase down to 99 off 70 with 6 wickets in hand.
That should have been a cakewalk on that wicket as the ball flies at Bengaluru due to altitude especially under lights.
Shocking end to that game.
We had broken the back of that chase.
I think the batting has been decent this world cup.
The India collapse hurts but otherwise we have done fine with the bat.
Naseems absence is HUGE. He sets the tone with Shaheen and EVERYTHING follows. Let me give you an example- naseem bowls very tight so run rate remains in control and he picks up the odd wicket- that would have meant a slip being in place for haris when he would come on looking for wickets. However in the NZ game after they got off to a good start, Babar didn't feel comfortable giving haris a slip and Williamson edged two boundaries, and then NZ were really away.
That is why your best bowlers make a difference

 

[rhony]

I'm disagreeing here.
We got the Aus chase down to 99 off 70 with 6 wickets in hand.
That should have been a cakewalk on that wicket as the ball flies at Bengaluru due to altitude especially under lights.
Shocking end to that game.
We had broken the back of that chase.
I think the batting has been decent this world cup.
The India collapse hurts but otherwise we have done fine with the bat.
Naseems absence is HUGE. He sets the tone with Shaheen and EVERYTHING follows. Let me give you an example- naseem bowls very tight so run rate remains in control and he picks up the odd wicket- that would have meant a slip being in place for haris when he would come on looking for wickets. However in the NZ game after they got off to a good start, Babar didn't feel comfortable giving haris a slip and Williamson edged two boundaries, and then NZ were really away.
That is why your best bowlers make a difference

You aren't wrong. But good bowling sides don't concede runs that are difficult to chase. Whenever you are chasing 350+ and go down, you can't blame the batsmen. Its a low probability target.

 

[FearlessRoar]

The Australia tour is ahead, and we recently got exposed in the Asia Cup 2023 and ICC World Cup 2023 for having mediocre game awareness and old-fashioned playing techniques. Sorry but a new humiliation is loading during the Australia tour.

 

[Kianig89]

I fear.this will remain headline for the next 2 months