[VIDEO] Statues of racist historical figures to be all torn down?

[Napa]

Its one thing if some common guy believes in starting something like a Khalistan movement. But i really really hope the Pakistani leadership is not that dumb to believe in it. And that the only reason they did Karatpur corridor was because they were naive enough to believe it will start a rebellion in Indian Punajb.

They are making a fair bit of money from the corridor, about $30 million a year.

 

[ahsan17]

Im not sure the argument 'normal in their times ' hold any value. Of course they wouldn't do it today as there there is no slave trade but such people with the same mentality still exist, difference is they have other means, ie Iraq war, butcher people to take their oil.

Prophet(Muhammed pbuh) was born over a 1000 years before in a very backward culture but was against racism. Sure he is special but to say racism was normal doesnt give the whole picture, plenty throughout the centuries were against racism and it was known as morally wrong.

You can make that argument, but you still can't call an equivalence with those that actively fought to support bigotry and racism.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

They are making a fair bit of money from the corridor, about $30 million a year.

£30m lol ... What 8s that in real terms considering the debt. It's a strange appeasement to a people who were brutal towards Muslims on partition but have become victims of their exodus; their story resonates with holocaust when reading from them ...

 

[Robert]

Today in Bristol, Uk, the statue of Edward Colston, a prominent 17th Century slave trader was torn down and dumped into the river.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52954305

Police did nothing to stop this and nobody will face charges imo.

If this is acceptable, which others famous historical figures with statues should be torn down in the UK?

1. Winston Churchill
2. Nelson's column.
3. Ghandi
4. George IV
5. Robert Clive
6. Charles Darwin

The list goes on.

Imo none should be torn down out of protest. A debate should take place and legal permission should be sought.

This nonsense is only creating more hate and divide.

Colson should have been quietly moved into the slavery exhibit of the Bristol Museum years ago. Bristolians have been trying to take down that statue by legal means for twenty years.

Darwin’s bust is in the Nat Hist.

Churchill has become a touchstone for a lot of young people - perhaps due to that recent film which left out the bad parts - so perhaps his statue should be moved into a garden somewhere in the Parliament complex.

 

[Buffet]

Im not sure the argument 'normal in their times ' hold any value. Of course they wouldn't do it today as there there is no slave trade but such people with the same mentality still exist, difference is they have other means, ie Iraq war, butcher people to take their oil.

Prophet(Muhammed pbuh) was born over a 1000 years before in a very backward culture but was against racism. Sure he is special but to say racism was normal doesnt give the whole picture, plenty throughout the centuries were against racism and it was known as morally wrong.

He himself bought, sold, captured, and owned slaves. Yet he did some good things for slaves. Focus should be what good things were done otherwise simply saying that he was racist and slave owner doesn't depict the full picture.

Historical figures should be judged by their time.

 

[Thomaskutty]

View attachment 101441


These could also fall soon.
[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] what is your view on this?

There's also Elihu Yale, a notorious english slave trader who was based in India ... after whom a certain university is named. Should they rename?

 

[KingKhanWC]

UK Black Lives Matter protests live: Oxford students condemn university's 'silence' on Cecil Rhodes as demo starts

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...black-lives-matter-colston-statue-rhodes-live

Live now, will this historic statue in Oxford fall today?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Statue of Belgium's King Leopold II is removed in Antwerp

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...Belgiums-King-Leopold-II-removed-Antwerp.html

 

[Saj]

Some universities are re-naming buildings housing students or that hold lectures that were named after slave traders.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

The whatsapp forward limit is 10 but still this information reached you. The one that reached my father was that Nehru's grandfather was a Muslim that converted.
I guess it depends upon religion which forward reaches you.

Not sure if the rumour about nehru and khursheed begum is true either

 

[MenInG]

All statues of historic figures in Leeds will be subject to a city-wide review, the council has said.

It comes after a statue of Queen Victoria was sprayed with graffiti including the words "murderer" and "slave owner".

The city council said it had an obligation to remove graffiti from the statue on Woodhouse Moor.

It added it was keen to be part of the ongoing debate around statues of some historic figures.

A statue of 17th Century slave trader Edward Colston was torn off its plinth in Bristol by protesters on Sunday, prompting calls for statues of other figures with links to slavery and imperialism to be removed.

The statue of Queen Victoria, whose reign saw the vast expansion of Britain's imperial power, was initially erected outside Leeds Town Hall in 1905, but was moved to Woodhouse Moor in 1937.

A spokesman for the authority said it would always support people's rights to express their views in a peaceful manner.

'History and context'

"We know there is currently a passionate and ongoing debate around statues of some historic figures and we are keen to be part of that conversation and listen to any views people may have," he added.

"We think it is important to understand the history and context of each of our statues and we will, therefore, undertake a city-wide review of our statues and related cultural history."

A statue of former Prime Minister Sir Robert Peel, also on Woodhouse Moor in Leeds, has been targeted by campaigners.

Although sometimes described as the founder of modern policing after establishing the Metropolitan Police Force in 1829, Sir Robert Peel's father, also an MP, supported a petition against the Foreign Slave Trade Abolition Bill and the family's wealth was based on its textile businesses.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-leeds-52990013?__twitter_impression=true

 

[MenInG]

Bristol City Council says the statue of 17th century slave trader Edward Colston which was pulled down and thrown into the city's harbour will be retrieved and moved to a museum

 

[Firebat]

Bristol City Council says the statue of 17th century slave trader Edward Colston which was pulled down and thrown into the city's harbour will be retrieved and moved to a museum

Toppled statue of English slave trader to be moved to a museum

LONDON (Reuters) - A toppled statue of a 17th Century English slave trader will be retrieved from the harbor and exhibited in a museum, Bristol City Council said on Wednesday.

Anti-racism protesters pulled down the statue of Edward Colston in Bristol on Sunday and threw it into the harbor, triggering a debate about Britain’s imperial past.

Bristol mayor Marvin Rees said Colston’s statue would be retrieved and displayed alongside Black Lives Matter placards from the recent protest so the 300 year story of slavery and the fight for racial equality could be better understood.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...-trader-to-be-moved-to-a-museum-idUSKBN23H23K

 

[Firebat]

Should we remove statues of Congo's coloniser king, Belgian councillor asks

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - A Brussels councillor has urged a debate on what to do with statues of Belgian King Leopold II, the brutal coloniser of what is now the Democratic Republic of Congo, which have been defaced by anti-racism protesters.

Statues of the monarch, whose troops killed and maimed millions, have been burned and sprayed since protests over the police killing of black American George Floyd turned global.

Congo Free State was Leopold’s personal fiefdom and source of wealth from 1885-1908, when he was forced to cede it to the Belgian state.

Adam Hochschild, author of the best-selling “King Leopold’s Ghost”, concluded that about half its population perished under the king. Villages that missed rubber collection quotas were made to provide severed hands instead.

Pascal Smet, state secretary for city planning and heritage for the Brussels region, said discussions should include experts and people with African backgrounds, and finish by next year.

“We have all the movement of Black Lives Matter, we are this year 60 years of independence of Congo. We are in a different timeframe now,” he told Reuters TV on Wednesday.

If the conclusion was that the statues should go, he would make this happen, although another option could be to accompany them with explanations about Belgium’s colonial past.

“We take time, but not too long because there’s always a danger with that kind of debate that you start talking and you never stop talking.”

Smet said in any case he wanted a memorial to decolonisation in Brussels, Belgium’s capital and home to European Union institutions.

The city has an equestrian statue of Leopold beside the royal palace - its hands now painted blood-red and its chest reading “Pardon” (Sorry) - along with three busts and a Leopold II road tunnel.

A statue in the city of Mons has been put into storage, and campaigners have demanded the removal of a bust from Leuven University’s library.

Colonialism is now to be taught compulsorily in secondary schools in the Dutch-speaking region of Flanders.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...er-king-belgian-councillor-asks-idUSKBN23H28L

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: A statue of Christopher Columbus in Byrd Park has been removed by protesters and dragged into the lake. This is a developing story. <a href="https://t.co/yFjiUdPTMk">pic.twitter.com/yFjiUdPTMk</a></p>— WTVR CBS 6 Richmond (@CBS6) <a href="https://twitter.com/CBS6/status/1270526933772709888?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">UPDATE: The statue of slave trader Robert Milligan has now been removed from West India Quay. <br><br>It’s a sad truth that much of our wealth was derived from the slave trade - but this does not have to be celebrated in our public spaces. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BlackLivesMatter?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BlackLivesMatter</a><a href="https://t.co/ca98capgnQ">pic.twitter.com/ca98capgnQ</a></p>— Sadiq Khan (@SadiqKhan) <a href="https://twitter.com/SadiqKhan/status/1270425865273389056?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Virtue signalling gone barmy. So is Yale gonna rename ?...

 

[MenInG]

A statue of a slave trader that was thrown into a harbour by anti-racism protestors has been retrieved from the water.

Black Lives Matter demonstrators tore down the statue of Edward Colston during a protest in Bristol on Sunday.

Bristol City Council said it needed to be removed from the water because the city had a "working harbour".

The statue will be taken to a secure location before becoming a museum exhibit, the authority said.

Previously, Bristol's Mayor Marvin Rees said he "felt no sense of loss" at the statue's removal.

When the statue fell, Avon and Somerset Police elected not to intervene, saying officers would have faced a violent confrontation.

The statue has been a controversial fixture in the city, with repeated calls for it to be removed.

Other organisations, including schools, that use the Colston name are now looking at changing their names following the protest.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Early this morning we retrieved the statue of Colston from Bristol Harbour. It is being taken to a secure location before later forming part of our museums collection. <a href="https://t.co/moRG8AnNYa">pic.twitter.com/moRG8AnNYa</a></p>— Bristol City Council (@BristolCouncil) <a href="https://twitter.com/BristolCouncil/status/1270946469864931328?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 11, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[MenInG]

British statue of scout founder Baden-Powell to be taken down

A local authority in southern England said it would remove a statue of Robert Baden-Powell, the latest memorial to be taken down in the wake of anti-racism protests sparked by the death of George Floyd.

While Baden-Powell was hailed as far-sighted for setting up the scouts, critics said he held racist views and was a supporter of Adolf Hitler and fascism.

Poole council said the statue of Baden-Powell would now be moved from its location on the quayside of the seaside town where it has been for just over a decade to safe storage while there were discussions with local communities about its future.

"Whilst famed for the creation of the Scouts, we also recognise that there are some aspects of Robert Baden-Powell's life that are considered less worthy of commemoration," council leader Vikki Slade said.

 

[Abdullah719]

Campaigners fear far-right 'defence' of statues such as Churchill's

Busloads of far-right demonstrators are feared to be planning to travel hundreds of miles to “defend” memorials at the weekend, campaigners have said.

There are concerns that hundreds are mobilising to attend a “patriotic unity” event at Winston Churchill’s statue in Westminster on Saturday morning, in response to the Black Lives Matter (BLM) protests.

The far-right activist Tommy Robinson and political group Britain First are among those supporting a “defend our memorials” event, which is being publicised with pictures of “Churchill is a racist” graffiti that was daubed on the statue last Sunday.

Spoiler

One campaign group, Hope Not Hate, said that sometimes planned far-right protests fail to materialise – but on this occasion coaches had been booked to take demonstrators from as far afield as north-east England, which until last week had the second-highest rate of coronavirus infections in England.

Joe Mulhall, from Hope Not Hate, said that “this time the police need to take the danger seriously” and warned of the potential for conflict on the streets if BLM protesters or other anti-facist groups turned up to launch a counter-demonstration.

Police sources said that the Met would decide how it would respond over the next 24 hours, including whether to let the event go ahead as billed. A spokesperson for the force added: “We’re aware of a number of protests due to take place.”

Some fear that police could be put in the difficult situation of having to keep two sets of protesters apart while trying to maintain public order.

Tim Newburn, professor of criminology at the London School of Economics, said: “That could become extremely problematic, because what happens is that the police start to look like they are protecting the smaller of the two groups, which is likely to be the far right.”

Saturday’s Churchill statue protest is nominally organised by the Democratic Football Lads Alliance (DFLA), a loose network that emerged in response to the 2017 terrorist attacks in Britain, which has been condemned as a far-right group by anti-racism campaigners.

Earlier on, its two biggest marches attracted more than 10,000 people. The group was thought to have lost momentum until it was reignited by recent events.

Far-right groups online have rapidly become agitated by the BLM protests, reaching a tipping point on Sunday and Monday after images were shared on social media of the tagging of Churchill’s statue – and the effort by one demonstrator to try to set fire to the flags on the Cenotaph on nearby Whitehall.

Figureheads such as Robinson and the Britain First leader, Paul Golding, produced videos shared on lightly regulated social media networks such as Telegram or the Russian-owned VK, angrily complaining that police had lost their grip on the BLM protesters on Sunday afternoon and evening.

The growing tensions prompted a standoff in the Hertfordshire town of Hoddesdon on Monday, where a group made Nazi salutes and shouted: “Why don’t you go back to Africa?” at a BLM protest as they converged in the afternoon. Small groups have gathered elsewhere, such outside the cenotaph in Hull on Wednesday.

Other far-right campaigners have urged people not just to focus on London on Saturday. One called for activists to gather at other monuments associated with slavery being targeted by BLM campaigners from Dundee to Plymouth.

Britain’s fractious far right has been dominated by anti-Muslim sentiment in recent years, led by the likes of Robinson who have claimed they are cultural nationalists. Experts said that, in recent days, this sentiment had morphed into more explicit anti-black racism.

“Elements of the far right have long pretended they don’t care about race, focusing on culture and religion instead,” Mulhall said. “But they have now let the mask slip and are openly talking about whiteness and race again.”

One politician also called for football clubs to condemn the DFLA and the planned demonstration. Unmesh Desai, the Labour London assembly spokesman for policing and crime, has written to all professional football clubs based in London to ask them to condemn the planned protest.

“I now urge your club to use its widespread influence and publicly denounce the plans of the DFLA and other far-right groups to disrupt and attempt to sabotage the BLM protests.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rs-plan-defence-of-statues-such-as-churchills

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Campaigners fear far-right 'defence' of statues such as Churchill's

Busloads of far-right demonstrators are feared to be planning to travel hundreds of miles to “defend” memorials at the weekend, campaigners have said.

There are concerns that hundreds are mobilising to attend a “patriotic unity” event at Winston Churchill’s statue in Westminster on Saturday morning, in response to the Black Lives Matter (BLM) protests.

The far-right activist Tommy Robinson and political group Britain First are among those supporting a “defend our memorials” event, which is being publicised with pictures of “Churchill is a racist” graffiti that was daubed on the statue last Sunday.

Spoiler

One campaign group, Hope Not Hate, said that sometimes planned far-right protests fail to materialise – but on this occasion coaches had been booked to take demonstrators from as far afield as north-east England, which until last week had the second-highest rate of coronavirus infections in England.

Joe Mulhall, from Hope Not Hate, said that “this time the police need to take the danger seriously” and warned of the potential for conflict on the streets if BLM protesters or other anti-facist groups turned up to launch a counter-demonstration.

Police sources said that the Met would decide how it would respond over the next 24 hours, including whether to let the event go ahead as billed. A spokesperson for the force added: “We’re aware of a number of protests due to take place.”

Some fear that police could be put in the difficult situation of having to keep two sets of protesters apart while trying to maintain public order.

Tim Newburn, professor of criminology at the London School of Economics, said: “That could become extremely problematic, because what happens is that the police start to look like they are protecting the smaller of the two groups, which is likely to be the far right.”

Saturday’s Churchill statue protest is nominally organised by the Democratic Football Lads Alliance (DFLA), a loose network that emerged in response to the 2017 terrorist attacks in Britain, which has been condemned as a far-right group by anti-racism campaigners.

Earlier on, its two biggest marches attracted more than 10,000 people. The group was thought to have lost momentum until it was reignited by recent events.

Far-right groups online have rapidly become agitated by the BLM protests, reaching a tipping point on Sunday and Monday after images were shared on social media of the tagging of Churchill’s statue – and the effort by one demonstrator to try to set fire to the flags on the Cenotaph on nearby Whitehall.

Figureheads such as Robinson and the Britain First leader, Paul Golding, produced videos shared on lightly regulated social media networks such as Telegram or the Russian-owned VK, angrily complaining that police had lost their grip on the BLM protesters on Sunday afternoon and evening.

The growing tensions prompted a standoff in the Hertfordshire town of Hoddesdon on Monday, where a group made Nazi salutes and shouted: “Why don’t you go back to Africa?” at a BLM protest as they converged in the afternoon. Small groups have gathered elsewhere, such outside the cenotaph in Hull on Wednesday.

Other far-right campaigners have urged people not just to focus on London on Saturday. One called for activists to gather at other monuments associated with slavery being targeted by BLM campaigners from Dundee to Plymouth.

Britain’s fractious far right has been dominated by anti-Muslim sentiment in recent years, led by the likes of Robinson who have claimed they are cultural nationalists. Experts said that, in recent days, this sentiment had morphed into more explicit anti-black racism.

“Elements of the far right have long pretended they don’t care about race, focusing on culture and religion instead,” Mulhall said. “But they have now let the mask slip and are openly talking about whiteness and race again.”

One politician also called for football clubs to condemn the DFLA and the planned demonstration. Unmesh Desai, the Labour London assembly spokesman for policing and crime, has written to all professional football clubs based in London to ask them to condemn the planned protest.

“I now urge your club to use its widespread influence and publicly denounce the plans of the DFLA and other far-right groups to disrupt and attempt to sabotage the BLM protests.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...rs-plan-defence-of-statues-such-as-churchills

Tommy Sir on the march! One of our prominent Indian anglophiles will be overjoyed! [MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION]

 

[CricketCartoons]

Tommy Sir on the march! One of our prominent Indian anglophiles will be overjoyed! [MENTION=136588]CricketCartoons[/MENTION]

All the patriots are called far right by the commies, so no wonder at the headline. Time for the patriots to rise and defend the values of the civilized society from the anarchist traitors.

 

[Firebat]

Confederate and Columbus statues toppled by US protesters

Statues of Confederate leaders and the explorer Christopher Columbus have been torn down in the US, as pressure grows on authorities to remove monuments connected to slavery and colonialism.

A statue of Confederate President Jefferson Davis was toppled in Richmond, Virginia, on Wednesday night.

Elsewhere in the city, a statue of Columbus was pulled down, set alight and thrown into a lake a day earlier.

Anti-racism protests have re-ignited debates over US historical monuments.

Memorials to the Confederacy, a group of southern states that fought to keep black people as slaves in the American Civil War of 1861-65, have been among those targeted by demonstrators taking to the streets after the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis police custody.

A three-metre tall (10ft) bronze statue of Italian explorer Columbus was also toppled in Saint Paul, Minnesota on Wednesday.

Statues of Columbus in Boston, Massachusetts and in Miami, Florida were also vandalised. The one in Boston, which stands on a plinth at the heart of town, was beheaded.

Spoiler

Many people in the US celebrate the memory of Columbus, who in school textbooks is credited with discovering "the New World", the Americas, in the 15th Century.

But Native American activists have long objected to honouring Columbus, saying that his expeditions to the Americas led to the colonisation and genocide of their ancestors.

The death of Mr Floyd, whose neck was kneeled on by a police officer for nearly nine minutes, has spurred a global protests against police brutality and racial inequalities, led by the Black Lives Matter movement.

Many cities and organisations have taken steps to remove Confederate symbols, which have long stirred controversy because of their association with racism.

Last week, for example, Virginia's Governor Ralph Northam announced that a statue of Confederate General Robert E Lee would be removed from Richmond.

However a judge has since granted a temporary injunction stopping the removal of the statue.

US President Donald Trump has meanwhile rejected calls to rename military bases named after Confederate generals, saying they remain part of America's heritage.

He tweeted: "The United States of America trained and deployed our HEROES on these Hallowed Grounds, and won two World Wars. Therefore, my Administration will not even consider the renaming of these Magnificent and Fabled Military Installations."

On Wednesday, Mr Trump renewed threats to take federal action against local protesters occupying public spaces.

In a pointed exchange on Twitter, Mr Trump demanded that the mayor of Seattle "take back your city" from protesters, whom he called anarchists and domestic terrorists.

In a tweet of her own, Mayor Durkan responded that Mr Trump could make everyone safe by going back to his White House bunker.

A similar backlash against statues of slave owners has been seen in the UK since Mr Floyd's death.

Black Lives Matter demonstrators tore down a statue of slave trader Edward Colston and threw it into a harbour during a protest in the city of Bristol on Sunday.

On Thursday, Bristol City Council said it had retrieved the statue, which will be taken to a secure location before becoming a museum exhibit.

Earlier this week, a statue of noted slaveholder Robert Milligan was removed from outside the Museum of London Docklands.

And, during a Black Lives Matter protest in London last weekend, a statue of Sir Winston Churchill in Parliament Square was sprayed with graffiti.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53005243

 

[Firebat]

Robert Baden-Powell statue: 'Livid' Poole residents vow to fight plan to take down monument of Scouts founder

Poole residents say they are "livid" and will fight council plans to take down a statue of Robert Baden-Powell - the founder of the Scout movement.

Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole (BCP) Council said it is planning to remove the monument temporarily for its protection on police advice.

It said it recognised that some aspects of Baden-Powell's life "are considered less worthy of commemoration".

Baden-Powell, a British Army officer who started Scouting in 1907, has been accused of racism and of being a Nazi sympathiser.

Locals have told Sky News they are against the statue's removal, which comes amid anti-racism Black Lives Matter protests over the death of George Floyd in the US that have sparked calls for the removal of monuments of controversial historical figures.

Spoiler

One Poole resident, Tommy Stranack, said: "We feel very strongly about this statue. It is here and it is in that position for a reason.

"This gentleman has helped the lives of 54 million children. His statue is here because it overlooks Brownsea Island, where the Scouts were founded.

"His history has nothing to do with the removal of this statue."

Asked if he wanted it to stay, he replied: "Absolutely."

The 52-year-old said his son has launched a petition to save the monument, which has been in the area since 2008.

"It has had more than 5,000 signatures since last night," he said.

"We don't want that statue going anywhere. If the police can't protect it, we will. It is not coming down. Shame on the council for being weak and giving in to thuggery."

His sentiments were echoed by another Poole resident, Len Banister.

"I will fight you!," said the 79-year-old, raising his arms - a walking stick in each.

Asked if the statue should be removed, he said: "No, it should not be. I'm here, I will fight for him."

He added: "I'm absolutely livid, I'm quaking I am so livid. He did so much for so many. I've come down to get a selfie before they remove the statue."

"It's history, isn't it," said a woman stood behind him.

Sharon Warne suggested controversial statues should have information panels about the figures they depict.

The 53-year-old said: "He had a bad past but he was the founder of the Scouts which today is a great organisation and it's ridiculous to get rid of him."

Rover Scouts Matthew Trott and Christopher Arthur travelled from Cwmbran, Wales, to show their support for the statue.

Mr Trott, 28, said: "I'd rather see the statue placed in a box in a warehouse for the moment rather than at the bottom of the harbour.

He said Baden-Powell "started the foundation I love", adding: "Scouting is my whole life so he is my hero."

Dorset Police said the statue had been identified as "a potential target" and the council was made aware, but added the decision on whether to remove the monument "was not one for the police and no advice was given to remove it".

"We appreciate the local council has a difficult decision, taking into account the various opposing views held by members of the public," the force said.

"We will continue to monitor intelligence and work with all our partners to reduce crime, prevent disorder and ensure public safety."

Baden-Powell's statue is on an activists' target list of monuments they want to see removed.

A Scouts spokesperson said the organisation operates "in almost every nation on Earth, promoting tolerance and global solidarity".

They added that the movement "is resolute in its commitment to inclusion and diversity, and members continually reflect and challenge ourselves in how we live our values".

https://news.sky.com/story/robert-b...take-down-monument-of-scouts-founder-12004683

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

All the patriots are called far right by the commies, so no wonder at the headline. Time for the patriots to rise and defend the values of the civilized society from the anarchist traitors.

Far right is a fairly tame description, possibly displaying mainstream media's tones of sympathy for the cause. Neo Nazis would be another description they could use if they had the same fair mindset as yourself. I note you have eschewed using far left and instead used the much more muscular terms of commies and anarchists.

 

[Nostalgic]

British statue of scout founder Baden-Powell to be taken down

A local authority in southern England said it would remove a statue of Robert Baden-Powell, the latest memorial to be taken down in the wake of anti-racism protests sparked by the death of George Floyd.

While Baden-Powell was hailed as far-sighted for setting up the scouts, critics said he held racist views and was a supporter of Adolf Hitler and fascism.

Poole council said the statue of Baden-Powell would now be moved from its location on the quayside of the seaside town where it has been for just over a decade to safe storage while there were discussions with local communities about its future.

"Whilst famed for the creation of the Scouts, we also recognise that there are some aspects of Robert Baden-Powell's life that are considered less worthy of commemoration," council leader Vikki Slade said.

Irrespective of whether one agrees with the statue being taken down or not, Baden-Powell was a strange fellow. There’s something faintly yet distinctly fascistic about having kids dressed up in quasi-military uniforms, and something distinctly creepy about adults who go off on camping trips with children not their own. The scouts were what inspired the Hitler Youth in Nazi Germany.

I was a scout myself as a child because I didn’t know any better then, but I haven’t allowed my children to join. Besides, at least in the US, people in the scout movement are invariably rightwing.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Irrespective of whether one agrees with the statue being taken down or not, Baden-Powell was a strange fellow. There’s something faintly yet distinctly fascistic about having kids dressed up in quasi-military uniforms, and something distinctly creepy about adults who go off on camping trips with children not their own. The scouts were what inspired the Hitler Youth in Nazi Germany.

I was a scout myself as a child because I didn’t know any better then, but I haven’t allowed my children to join. Besides, at least in the US, people in the scout movement are invariably rightwing.

Same here, I was packed off to the scouts as a young lad, and while it was interesting, the scout master definitely seemed a bit strange, and so did his crazy shining eyed star pupil who was installed as second in command. He was a bit older than the rest of us, but having said that, would never imply that there was anything going on between the two, other than being potential forest dwelling survival nuts at some point in the future. Had one camping trip and that was ok really, other than the disgusting food that was being cooked on the campfire.

 

[MenInG]

Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole Council says it will provide 24-hour security for a statue of Robert Baden-Powell in Poole which it plans to temporarily remove over concerns it could be attacked by anti-racism campaigners

 

[Nostalgic]

Same here, I was packed off to the scouts as a young lad, and while it was interesting, the scout master definitely seemed a bit strange, and so did his crazy shining eyed star pupil who was installed as second in command. He was a bit older than the rest of us, but having said that, would never imply that there was anything going on between the two, other than being potential forest dwelling survival nuts at some point in the future. Had one camping trip and that was ok really, other than the disgusting food that was being cooked on the campfire.

Such rumors abound about Baden-Powell himself. Like others in the British gentry from that era, there’s a whiff of repressed sexuality: eschewing civilization and going off into the wilderness with young boys.

On the positive side, after all these years, I still know how to tie reef knots, sheepshanks, and a few others I’ve forgotten the names of.

 

[MenInG]

A statue of the founder of the Scout movement will be given 24-hour protection after plans for its temporary removal were delayed.

Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole (BCP) Council had said it was planning to take down the statue of Robert Baden-Powell on police advice, after the monument in Poole featured on a website detailing potential targets for anti-racism protesters.

Cllr Mark Howell, the council's deputy leader, says the removal of the statue has now been delayed because its foundations were "deeper than originally envisaged".

The statue will be protected 24 hours a day "until it is either removed or the threat diminishes", Cllr Howell said.

The announcement came after residents of the Dorset town said they were "livid" and would fight the council's plans to temporarily remove the statue.

The council said it recognised that some aspects of Baden-Powell's life "are considered less worthy of commemoration" when it announced it would temporarily remove the statue.

Baden-Powell, a British Army officer who started Scouting in 1907, has been accused of racism and of being a Nazi sympathiser.

Locals have told Sky News they are against the statue's removal, which comes amid anti-racism Black Lives Matter protests over the death of George Floyd in the US that have sparked calls for the removal of monuments of controversial historical figures.

One Poole resident, Tommy Stranack, said: "We feel very strongly about this statue. It is here and it is in that position for a reason.

"This gentleman has helped the lives of 54 million children. His statue is here because it overlooks Brownsea Island, where the Scouts were founded.

"His history has nothing to do with the removal of this statue."

Asked if he wanted it to stay, he replied: "Absolutely."

The Colston statue is retrieved from Bristol Harbour

Slaver statue pulled from harbour

The 52-year-old said his son has launched a petition to save the monument, which has been in the area since 2008.

"It has had more than 5,000 signatures since last night," he said.

"We don't want that statue going anywhere. If the police can't protect it, we will. It is not coming down. Shame on the council for being weak and giving in to thuggery."

His sentiments were echoed by another Poole resident, Len Banister.

"I will fight you!," said the 79-year-old, raising his arms - a walking stick in each.

Asked if the statue should be removed, he said: "No, it should not be. I'm here, I will fight for him."

He added: "I'm absolutely livid, I'm quaking I am so livid. He did so much for so many. I've come down to get a selfie before they remove the statue."

"It's history, isn't it," said a woman stood behind him.

Sharon Warne suggested controversial statues should have information panels about the figures they depict.

The 53-year-old said: "He had a bad past but he was the founder of the Scouts which today is a great organisation and it's ridiculous to get rid of him."

Rover Scouts Matthew Trott and Christopher Arthur travelled from Cwmbran, Wales, to show their support for the statue.

Mr Trott, 28, said: "I'd rather see the statue placed in a box in a warehouse for the moment rather than at the bottom of the harbour.

He said Baden-Powell "started the foundation I love", adding: "Scouting is my whole life so he is my hero."

Explaining why BCP Council had planned to temporarily remove the statue, Cllr Howell said the decision "was taken following the listing of the statue on a website detailing potential targets for protesters".

He said: "This listing placed the much-loved statue at risk of damage or even destruction. We made the decision quickly in order to protect it."

He added: "We will not be removing the statue today as the foundations are deeper than originally envisaged and we need further discussions with contractors on the best way to remove it safely.

"Although we cannot say when any temporary removal may take place, we will be providing 24-hour security until it is either removed or the threat diminishes."

Dorset Police said the statue had been identified as "a potential target" and the council was made aware, but added the decision on whether to remove the monument "was not one for the police and no advice was given to remove it".

"We appreciate the local council has a difficult decision, taking into account the various opposing views held by members of the public," the force said.

"We will continue to monitor intelligence and work with all our partners to reduce crime, prevent disorder and ensure public safety."

Baden-Powell's statue is on an activists' target list of monuments they want to see removed.

A Scouts spokesperson said the organisation operates "in almost every nation on Earth, promoting tolerance and global solidarity".

They added that the movement "is resolute in its commitment to inclusion and diversity, and members continually reflect and challenge ourselves in how we live our values".

https://news.sky.com/story/robert-b...take-down-monument-of-scouts-founder-12004683

 

[Nostalgic]

There’s a palpable backlash against the removal of the memorials to racist-yet-revered British notables. The protestors should turn the focus of their ire towards Gandhi, to avoid said backlash. It would be a win-win situation. As always, one must pick which battles to fight, and pick winnable ones.

 

[shaykh]

Colston doesn’t really have any redeemable features ...so cant say It’s a major issues ...people in Britain seem to have no issue defacing historical monuments for instance so is it an issue when they take down a statue of a racist ...

What I guess the question is...is whether it solves anything?...I mean gone with the wind isn’t available on HBO ...big change ...does this make any positive difference to the black experience here ?...

And what next I guess...do the only statues that should stand be vanilla characters or can those with lots of grey stand ...eg Churchill for instance ...or let’s say the Irish and Cromwell ...if one is to remove all historical parts which were involved in slavery then might need to shut down a few churches too ...

There are arguments about statues...whether they are simply history or whether they are memorial ...how one answers that question enables one to decide what judgement they make ...

 

[Sirris]

There’s a palpable backlash against the removal of the memorials to racist-yet-revered British notables. The protestors should turn the focus of their ire towards Gandhi, to avoid said backlash. It would be a win-win situation. As always, one must pick which battles to fight, and pick winnable ones.

It's not like those taking down the statues are overwhlemingly from any one communtiy in particular.

This a group full of white people:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NEW: Protesters yank down Christopher Columbus statue outside Minnesota State Capitol in St. Paul. <a href="https://t.co/uL6qM3U0jO">https://t.co/uL6qM3U0jO</a> <a href="https://t.co/g2gEiUllg5">pic.twitter.com/g2gEiUllg5</a></p>— ABC News (@ABC) <a href="https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1270850224777396224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Yet, it's going to make the insecure people even more frightful.

 

[Nostalgic]

It's not like those taking down the statues are overwhlemingly from any one communtiy in particular.

This a group full of white people:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NEW: Protesters yank down Christopher Columbus statue outside Minnesota State Capitol in St. Paul. <a href="https://t.co/uL6qM3U0jO">https://t.co/uL6qM3U0jO</a> <a href="https://t.co/g2gEiUllg5">pic.twitter.com/g2gEiUllg5</a></p>— ABC News (@ABC) <a href="https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1270850224777396224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script

Sure, but in the case of Churchill and to an extent Baden-Powell, there is a backlash, because racism notwithstanding, the natives feel a reverence still. This will not be so in the case of Gandhi. The protestors would feel accomplished at literally knocking a racist off his pedestal, and the native Brits wouldn't care. A win-win if ever there was one.

 

[Nostalgic]

It's not like those taking down the statues are overwhlemingly from any one communtiy in particular.

This a group full of white people:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NEW: Protesters yank down Christopher Columbus statue outside Minnesota State Capitol in St. Paul. <a href="https://t.co/uL6qM3U0jO">https://t.co/uL6qM3U0jO</a> <a href="https://t.co/g2gEiUllg5">pic.twitter.com/g2gEiUllg5</a></p>— ABC News (@ABC) <a href="https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1270850224777396224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 10, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Sure, but in the case of the likes of Churchill, racism notwithstanding, the native Brit harbors a great deal of reverence. That won't be the case with Gandhi. The protestors can feel accomplished at having literally knocked a racist off his pedestal, with no fear of backlash from the native Brits. A win-win if ever there was one.

 

[MenInG]

Workers have boarded up a statue of Sir Winston Churchill and the Cenotaph in central London ahead of weekend protests.

Though the majority of protests in support of the Black Lives Matter movement have been peaceful, statues around the country have been targeted.

Often topping lists of "the greatest Britons", Churchill is honoured with numerous monuments, the most famous located in London's Parliament Square.

Lauded for his leadership as Britain's wartime prime minister and opposition to Hitler's Nazi regime, he also espoused racist views of Indians, who he said he "hated" and considered to be "a beastly people with a beastly religion".

Controversial statues are under scrutiny around the world. Should they be removed? Or kept for their historical significance?
His statue was boarded up overnight for its own protection after protesters pushed a monument of slave trader Edward Colston into Bristol Harbour on Sunday.

On Thursday evening, a tower block sign bearing the slave trader's name in the city was also removed.

A statue of slave owner Robert Milligan has also been removed from outside the Museum of London.

Guy's and St Thomas' hospitals in London have said they will remove two statues linked to slavery in response to anti-racism protests across the UK.

The NHS foundation trust which runs the hospitals said monuments of Thomas Guy and Sir Robert Clayton will be moved out of public view.

Thomas Guy, who founded Guy's hospital in the 18th century, had shares in the South Sea Company which was involved in the slave trade.

Sir Robert Clayton, who was president of St Thomas' hospital in the 17th century, was a banker connected to the Royal African Company which shipped slaves across the Atlantic.

The Guy's and St Thomas' Charity, Guy's and St Thomas' NHS Foundation Trust, and King's College London said in a statement: "Like many organisations in Britain, we know that we have a duty to address the legacy of colonialism, racism and slavery in our work.

"We absolutely recognise the public hurt and anger that is generated by the symbolism of public statues of historical figures associated with the slave trade in some way.

"We have therefore decided to remove statues of Robert Clayton and Thomas Guy from public view, and we look forward to engaging with and receiving guidance from the Mayor of London's Commission on each."

The NHS foundation trust added there are no plans to change the names of the hospitals.

The trust also said the removal of the statues will most likely "take a few weeks" due to the "size, age and listed status" of the monuments.

Sky News research has found eight in 10 councils are considering the future of contentious statues in response to Black Lives Matter protests.

Actions under consideration range from taking them down, plaques to put them in historical context, and simply listening to residents' concerns.

Sky News contacted 43 councils with a total of 58 statues between them which have been criticised for their links to racism, slavery or colonialism.

A statue of the Scouts founder Robert Baden-Powell in Poole has been given 24-hour protection after plans for its temporary removal were delayed.

The announcement came after residents of the Dorset town said they were "livid" and would fight the council's plans to take the monument down.

Baden-Powell, a British Army officer who started Scouting in 1907, has been accused by critics of racism and of being a Nazi sympathiser.

https://news.sky.com/story/guys-and...ues-linked-to-slavery-after-protests-12005037

 

[MenInG]

It is "absurd and shameful" that a statue of Winston Churchill has had to be boarded up because of fears it could be vandalised, the prime minister says.

Boris Johnson said the war-time leader had expressed opinions which were "unacceptable to us today" but remained a hero for saving the country from "fascist and racist tyranny".

Protesters daubed "was a racist" on the monument last weekend.

Mr Johnson also told protesters to "stay away" amid the Covid-19 pandemic.

In a series of tweets, he said: "We cannot now try to edit or censor our past," adding that such monuments were put up by previous generations.

It comes after the statue of slave trader Edward Colston was thrown into the river in Bristol during a Black Lives Matter protest on Sunday.

Demonstrations have been taking place across the world following the death of George Floyd, an unarmed black man, in Minneapolis after a police officer held a knee on his neck for nearly nine minutes.

Mr Johnson said that, while he understood "legitimate feelings of outrage" at what had happened, the "only responsible course of action" was to "stay away from these protests".

They had been "hijacked by extremists intent on violence", he said.

While Churchill is credited with helping lead the Allies to victory in WW2, some critics accuse him of racism because of comments he made about Indians.

Other monuments have been removed ahead of planned protests this weekend, while the Cenotaph has war memorial also been boxed up in London.

On Tuesday, a statue of slave owner Robert Milligan was removed from outside the Museum of London Docklands.

The NHS trust which runs Guy's and St Thomas' hospitals in London have said it will remove statues of Thomas Guy and Sir Robert Clayton - both linked to slavery - from public view.

A statue of Scouts movement founder Robert Baden-Powell is to be removed in Poole, Dorset.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53023351

 

[AdamM97]

Sure, but in the case of the likes of Churchill, racism notwithstanding, the native Brit harbors a great deal of reverence. That won't be the case with Gandhi. The protestors can feel accomplished at having literally knocked a racist off his pedestal, with no fear of backlash from the native Brits. A win-win if ever there was one.

Believe me, there will be backlash. Not a fan of Churchill or any slave traders whose statues are being pulled down, but such actions will lead to a white nationalist backlash. The situation looks kinda dire atm in the west.

 

[Nostalgic]

Believe me, there will be backlash. Not a fan of Churchill or any slave traders whose statues are being pulled down, but such actions will lead to a white nationalist backlash. The situation looks kinda dire atm in the west.

That’s what I said...

I was advocating being pragmatic and leaving such monuments be, and turn the protestors’ ire towards Gandhi.

 

[MenInG]

British Prime Minister Boris Johnson says it's "absurd and shameful" that the statue of Winston Churchill in Parliament Square, London, was "at risk of attack by violent protesters".

Speaking after the memorial was boarded up to protect it ahead of more planned weekend demonstrations, the Johnson said on Twitter: "We cannot now try to edit or censor our past."

Johnson, who cites Churchill as a personal hero, also said of the wartime PM: "The statue of Winston Churchill in Parliament Square is a permanent reminder of his achievement in saving this country - and the whole of Europe - from a fascist and racist tyranny."

Westminster Council street marshals stand next to a protective covering installed overnight surrounds the statue of former British Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill in Parliament Square, London. (Aaron Chown/PA via AP)

"Yes, he sometimes expressed opinions that were and are unacceptable to us today, but he was a hero, and he fully deserves his memorial," Johnson said.

He argued tearing down statues would be to "censor our past" and "lie about our history."

A protective box was placed around the statue of the former premier, who led Britain during the World War II struggle against the Nazis after it was targeted during Black Lives Matter protests last weekend.

It was vandalised with the words "Was a racist", while the Cenotaph, which has also now been protected with hoarding, was also targeted.

Anti-racism protests in Britain have been predominantly peaceful, though small groups have scuffled with the police and thrown projectiles near Parliament and the prime minister's residence in London.

The protests, sparked by the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis in the United States, also a statue of Edward Colston was pulled down and dumped in the harbour in Bristol.

The toppling of Colston's statue in Bristol has reinvigorated calls for the removal of other monuments to figures associated with imperialism and racism.

Authorities this week removed a statue of slave owner Robert Milligan from its perch in London's docklands, and campaigners in Oxford are pressing for a likeness of Victorian imperialist Cecil Rhodes to be withdrawn from view at Oxford University.

At Cambridge University, environmental protesters from Extinction Rebellion defaced a memorial window honouring geneticist and statistician Ronald Fisher, a proponent of eugenics, with the words "Eugenics is genocide. Fisher must fall."

With more demonstrations expected over the weekend, a protective plywood screen was erected around Churchill's statue outside Parliament.

Authorities also fenced off other statues in Parliament Square, including memorials to Nelson Mandela and Abraham Lincoln, as well as the nearby Cenotaph, a memorial to Britain's war dead.

A Black Lives Matter group in London said it was calling off a planned protest on Saturday because the presence of far-right activists would make it unsafe, though some anti-racism demonstrators are still likely to gather.

https://www.9news.com.au/world/bori...-covered/dbb18064-1c2c-4193-aa1a-49f298933250

 

[KingKhanWC]

Churchill didnt do jack, you could have had Mr Bean in charge and the war would have been won.

However his statue in hiding now has sent UK storming towards some race riots, clashes and possible deaths.

Saturday the far right will be marching in London to counter the 'BLM' protesters.

 

[MenInG]

A statue of Winston Churchill may have to be put in a museum to protect it if demonstrations continue, his granddaughter has said.

Emma Soames told the BBC the war-time prime minister was a "complex man" but he was considered a hero by millions.

She said she was "shocked" to see the monument in London's Parliament Square boarded up, although she said she understood why this was necessary.

It came after protesters daubed "was a racist" on the statue last weekend.

Ms Soames said it was "extraordinarily sad that my grandfather, who was such a unifying figure in this country, appears to have become a sort of icon through being controversial."

"We've come to this place where history is viewed only entirely through the prism of the present," she told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

Ms Soames acknowledged her grandfather had often held views which "particularly now are regarded as unacceptable but weren't necessarily then".

However she added: "He was a powerful, complex man, with infinitely more good than bad in the ledger of his life."

She said if people were "so infuriated" by seeing the statue it may be "safer" in a museum.

"But I think Parliament Square would be a poorer place without him," she added.

Churchill's grandson Sir Nicholas Soames said he was "deeply upset" after the statue was vandalised and then boarded up.

"I find it extraordinary that millions and millions of people all over the world who look up to Britain will be astonished that a statue of Churchill and the Cenotaph, our national war memorial, could have been defaced in this disgusting way," he told the Daily Telegraph.

However, author Shrabani Basu, who has written books about the British Empire, said there were "two sides of Churchill" and "we need to know his darkest hour as well as his finest hour".

She argued that in India, Churchill is not seen as a hero, citing his role in the 1943 Bengal famine, during which at least three million people are believed to have died.

While Ms Basu said she did not want to see the statue removed from Parliament Square, she said people should be taught "the whole story" about the war-time figure.

Black Lives Matter activist Imarn Ayton said statues of slave traders and people who had spoken negatively towards black people were "extremely offensive" and should be moved to museums.

"I think it's a win-win to everyone so we no longer offend the black nation and we also get to keep our history," she told the BBC.

On Friday, Prime Minister Boris Johnson branded the boarding up of the statue to protect it from potential vandalism as "absurd and shameful".

Mr Johnson said the former prime minister had expressed opinions which were "unacceptable to us today" but remained a hero for saving the country from "fascist and racist tyranny".

"We cannot try to edit or censor our past," he wrote of moves to remove tributes to historical figures. "We cannot pretend to have a different history."

Why does Churchill divide opinion?

Winston Churchill, who lived between 30 November 1874 and 24 January 1965, is often named among Britain's greatest-ever people but for some he remains an intensely controversial figure.

Despite his leading the country through the darkest hours of World War Two and being prime minister twice, critics point to his comments on race and some of his actions during both world wars.

Churchill told the Palestine Royal Commission that he did not admit wrong had been done to Native Americans or aboriginal Australians as "a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place".

His supporters argue that he was by no means the only person to hold these sorts of views during the period.

He also advocated the use of chemical weapons, "I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes," he wrote in a memo.

Another criticism is for his part in the Bengal famine in India in 1943, during which at least three million people are believed to have died after Allied forces halted the movement of food in the region - including through British-run India - following the Japanese occupation of Burma.

The statue in London's Parliament Square was boxed up ahead of a Black Lives Matter protest in Westminster on Friday evening.

A demonstration planned for Saturday was brought forward by a day because of fears there could be violent clashes with far-right groups.

The Met Police have placed restrictions on several groups intending to protest on Saturday, including requiring demonstrations to end at 17:00 BST.

Several hundred people gathered in Westminster on Saturday morning, including around the Cenotaph war memorial in Whitehall and the nearby Churchill statue.

Among the demonstrators, who were largely white men, was Paul Golding, leader of far-right group Britain First, who said they had turned out to "guard our monuments".

Other monuments have been removed ahead of separate protests planned over the weekend, while the Cenotaph has also been covered.

Mayor of London Sadiq Khan said other "key statues", including one of Nelson Mandela, would be protected, saying there was a risk statues could become a "flashpoint for violence".

It comes after the statue of slave trader Edward Colston was thrown into the harbour in Bristol during a Black Lives Matter protest on Sunday.

Demonstrations have been taking place across the world following the death in police custody of African American George Floyd in Minneapolis last month.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53033550

 

[MenInG]

Churchill didnt do jack, you could have had Mr Bean in charge and the war would have been won.

However his statue in hiding now has sent UK storming towards some race riots, clashes and possible deaths.

Saturday the far right will be marching in London to counter the 'BLM' protesters.

Yes its true that he didnt fire a shot or fly a plane but his inspirational leadership held GB together at time when many were ready to throw in the towel.

 

[cricketjoshila]

This is stupidity. Attacking Churchill will only further strengthen the white supremacists. Churchill is a British hero( i have no love for him, because of his role in killing millions in brngal famine) and if a minority attacks him and vandalizes his statues it wont end well. The backlash will be huge, with a huge anti minority wave.

This kind of stupidity is bound to fail and further strengthen the right wing.

 

[Robert]

Churchill didnt do jack, you could have had Mr Bean in charge and the war would have been won.

However his statue in hiding now has sent UK storming towards some race riots, clashes and possible deaths.

Saturday the far right will be marching in London to counter the 'BLM' protesters.

Not true. If Halifax had become PM, GB would have sued for peace with Hitler. GB would have lost much of the Royal Navy as part of the settlement. USA would have not come to help. Britain would have been left on the outskirts of a Nazi Europe. Mosely and the fascists, encouraged by Nazi Germany would have got stronger and Britain would have turned fascist too. And soon there would have been no black or brown faces or Jews on the streets.

Churchill rallied Parliament and then the people with his radio talks, and formed a fighting spirit to resist the most disgusting regime in history. He convinced FDR to come into the European theatre though the American isolationists said otherwise.

He wasn't a good guy and he did plenty wrong. But he saved Europe from totalitarianism.

However he is also a symbol for the modern fascists you speak of. How little they know.

 

[Robert]

This is stupidity. Attacking Churchill will only further strengthen the white supremacists. Churchill is a British hero( i have no love for him, because of his role in killing millions in brngal famine) and if a minority attacks him and vandalizes his statues it wont end well. The backlash will be huge, with a huge anti minority wave.

This kind of stupidity is bound to fail and further strengthen the right wing.

What could he have done, realistically?

I gave it some thought.

He sent a pair of battleships to help Singapore in 1941. Both were sunk by Japanese carrier planes. So a relief operation for Bengal would have needed a massive concentration of battleships, carriers and destroyers to guard the cargo ships carrying grain for Bengal. All the big ships were in the North Atlantic in case Tirpitz got out of harbour. If the fleet was sent to Bengal, Tirpitz would have been set free and wrecked transAtlantic convoys all by herself.... which could have meant GB capitulating through starvation.

So.... relieve Bengal, and lose the war.

 

[shaykh]

One headline reported that Gandhi and Mandela statues are being protected today ...

Who is Gandhi’s statue being protected from?

 

[Sirris]

Sure, but in the case of the likes of Churchill, racism notwithstanding, the native Brit harbors a great deal of reverence. That won't be the case with Gandhi. The protestors can feel accomplished at having literally knocked a racist off his pedestal, with no fear of backlash from the native Brits. A win-win if ever there was one.

Have you signed this petition yet?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A petition to remove a statue of Mahatma Gandhi in Leicester has received nearly 5,000 signatures.<a href="https://t.co/IueMyiTZqb">https://t.co/IueMyiTZqb</a></p>— BBC News India (@BBCIndia) <a href="https://twitter.com/BBCIndia/status/1271698803247263744?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 13, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[KingKhanWC]

Yes its true that he didnt fire a shot or fly a plane but his inspirational leadership held GB together at time when many were ready to throw in the towel.

Not true. If Halifax had become PM, GB would have sued for peace with Hitler. GB would have lost much of the Royal Navy as part of the settlement. USA would have not come to help. Britain would have been left on the outskirts of a Nazi Europe. Mosely and the fascists, encouraged by Nazi Germany would have got stronger and Britain would have turned fascist too. And soon there would have been no black or brown faces or Jews on the streets.

Churchill rallied Parliament and then the people with his radio talks, and formed a fighting spirit to resist the most disgusting regime in history. He convinced FDR to come into the European theatre though the American isolationists said otherwise.

He wasn't a good guy and he did plenty wrong. But he saved Europe from totalitarianism.

However he is also a symbol for the modern fascists you speak of. How little they know.

All irrelevant.

If USA did not join the war, Germany would have destroyed and taken over the UK. He did the minimum any PM would do at a time of such a war.

 

[KingKhanWC]

One headline reported that Gandhi and Mandela statues are being protected today ...

Who is Gandhi’s statue being protected from?

Black people I asssume? Ghandi was racist to whites or Asians.

 

[Nostalgic]

Have you signed this petition yet?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A petition to remove a statue of Mahatma Gandhi in Leicester has received nearly 5,000 signatures.<a href="https://t.co/IueMyiTZqb">https://t.co/IueMyiTZqb</a></p>— BBC News India (@BBCIndia) <a href="https://twitter.com/BBCIndia/status/1271698803247263744?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 13, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Sign it? I started it.

 

[IMMY69]

Gandhi was supposedly racist against black people and allegedly slept with under age girls to test himself to see if he can resist temptation.

 

[Robert]

All irrelevant.

If USA did not join the war, Germany would have destroyed and taken over the UK. He did the minimum any PM would do at a time of such a war.

No. the minimum would have been the Halifax approach - sue for peace and become a Nazi client state in 1940.

Instead Churchill inspired GB to fight, and for two years Nazi Germany was unable to beat GB down despite no help from the USA.

In your isolationist USA scenario it is more likely the USSR would have destroyed Nazi Germany and seized much of Western Europe.

 

[Robert]

Yes its true that he didnt fire a shot or fly a plane but his inspirational leadership held GB together at time when many were ready to throw in the towel.

Well, he was 70 when war broke out. And yes he did inspire Britain to fight when many in Parliament and the press said make peace.

 

[Technics 1210]

Churchill was a stooge. He didn't do a thing to win WW2. Look up 'Dresdon Bombing', that was him at his finest.

Don't forget Balfour declaration! GB was struggling without the USA, and we all know how and why the USA entered WW2.

The Zionists were controlling the outcome of WW2.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Sign it? I started it.

Yaar, what have you got against Gandhi? He's the only Indian figure admired by the Brits apart from Rangi Ram from It ain't half hot Mum.

Now you're going to ask who's Rangi Ram and that will be my cue to load the Youtube video which will have dozens of joshila Indian members gnashing their teeth.

 

[Nostalgic]

Yaar, what have you got against Gandhi? He's the only Indian figure admired by the Brits apart from Rangi Ram from It ain't half hot Mum.

Now you're going to ask who's Rangi Ram and that will be my cue to load the Youtube video which will have dozens of joshila Indian members gnashing their teeth.

Who is Rangi Ram?

 

[Nostalgic]

Yaar, what have you got against Gandhi? He's the only Indian figure admired by the Brits apart from Rangi Ram from It ain't half hot Mum.

Now you're going to ask who's Rangi Ram and that will be my cue to load the Youtube video which will have dozens of joshila Indian members gnashing their teeth.

As for Gandhi, I couldn't care less about him, apart from the fact that he's one-third of the Gandhi-Yoga-Bollywood Humsaaya Mulk propoganda/soft power juggernaut. One of the three losing its sheen helps us, and hurts them.

 

[KingKhanWC]

No. the minimum would have been the Halifax approach - sue for peace and become a Nazi client state in 1940.

Instead Churchill inspired GB to fight, and for two years Nazi Germany was unable to beat GB down despite no help from the USA.

In your isolationist USA scenario it is more likely the USSR would have destroyed Nazi Germany and seized much of Western Europe.

You mean the Indians or others from the colonial lands which he despised but was happy to put on the front lines?

 

[Robert]

You mean the Indians or others from the colonial lands which he despised but was happy to put on the front lines?

Them too. He respected the Indian Army. It was the Quit India Movement that he despised, thinking them traitors at a time of existential threat.

Indians would have been on the front line against Imperial Japan whether Churchill or Halifax was PM and whether GB made peace with Nazi Germany or not.

 

[MenInG]

Liverpool's Penny Lane, made famous by The Beatles, is "in danger of being renamed" if links to slavery are found, the city's regional mayor has told Sky News.

Road signs on Penny Lane were last week defaced following claims they are associated with 18th century slave merchant James Penny.

Steve Rotherham, the mayor of the Liverpool city region, admitted the road could be renamed if that connection is proven.

A road sign for Penny Lane, made famous by The Beatles, in Liverpool after it was vandalised following perceived links with slave trader James Penny.

However, he added there is "no evidence that is the fact".

"If it is as a direct consequence of that road being called Penny Lane because of James Penny, then that needs to be investigated," Mr Rotherham told Sky News' Kay Burley@Breakfast show.

"Something needs to happen and I would say that sign and that road may well be in danger of being renamed.

"But, of course, there is no evidence that is the fact.

"Just imagine not having a Penny Lane and the Beatles' song not being about somewhere.

"I don't believe it is associated with James Penny."

Widespread protests in support of the Black Lives Matter movement, following the killing of George Floyd in America, have led to calls for statues and place names linked to British historical figures associated with slavery to be taken down.

Mr Rotherham, who described himself as a "massive" Beatles fan who has "done a bit of reading on this", suggested that Penny Lane was instead associated with a toll that was once paid in that area - in pennies - to cross the road.

But he added, as a "58-year-old white middle-aged man", he can "see things through my eyes and I can't see through the eyes of somebody who every single day has faced prejudice, has faced racism".

"It's for other people to decide whether they think it's appropriate that road sign is taken down, if indeed there is any link to either slavery or other incidences," the mayor added.

"I'm not pretending or I wouldn't presume to tell people in communities in the Liverpool city region what they should be thinking.

"It needs to be investigated and then, if it's found as a direct link then action can be taken."

The song Penny Lane was released by The Beatles in February 1967

Mr Rotherham said: "Of course, the song wasn't written about James Penny, it was written about an area that the Beatles, when they were off elsewhere, were reminiscing about.

"It's a lovely song and hopefully we'll come to an amicable solution on this one."

Liverpool's International Slavery Museum has said evidence linking Penny Lane to James Penny is "not conclusive".

The museum is "actively carrying out research on this particular question", a spokeswoman added.

Until the abolishment of the British slave trade in 1807, ships from Liverpool carried around 1.5m enslaved Africans on approximately 5,000 voyages, the vast majority going to the Caribbean.

The city's connections with slavery continued through cotton and other trades that were dependent on slave labour for much of the 19th century.

https://news.sky.com/story/beatles-...ink-proven-says-liverpool-city-mayor-12007116

 

[MenInG]

[utube]5FD6tkj8BnE[/utube]

The lettering on a music venue named after controversial slave trader Edward Colston was taken down today (Mon) in the wake of protests over his legacy. Colston Hall said in 2017 that it would change its title after renovations were completed - but has since decided to take down the sign in light of recent action. Pictures taken today (June 15) show workers removing letters from the building. A new name for the popular Bristol attraction will be chosen in the autumn.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Who is Rangi Ram?

Ok well since you asked:

 

[Nostalgic]

Ok well since you asked:

Thanks, now I know. I looked up the actor, and it turns out he was a devoted right-winger. No wonder he appears to be playing this character with relish.

 

[MenInG]

Protective boarding around the statue of Sir Winston Churchill in central London will be removed for the visit of French President Emmanuel Macron.

The monument in Parliament Square was boarded up, along with several others, after it was sprayed with graffiti during a Black Lives Matter protest prompted by the death of George Floyd in the US.

Mr Macron is due to visit London on Thursday where he will meet Prime Minister Boris Johnson and attend an event with the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall.

A spokesman for the Mayor of London said: "The covering around the Winston Churchill statue will be removed for the visit of President Macron to London."

The Churchill statue was boarded up on 12 June ahead of a planned Black Lives Matter protest after demonstrators had previously daubed "was a racist" on the monument.

Lauded for his leadership as Britain's wartime prime minister and opposition to Hitler's Nazi regime, Sir Winston also espoused racist views of Indians, who he said he "hated" and considered to be "a beastly people with a beastly religion".

'Absurd' to attack Churchill statue

Days after the monument was boarded up, there were violent scenes in London and more than 100 arrests as police struggled to keep anti-racism protesters and rival demonstrators apart.

As Black Lives Matter supporters gathered in Hyde Park, a crowd of people - some of them far-right activists - gathered in Parliament Square, where they were claiming to protect statues.

On Thursday, Mr Macron will meet Charles and Camilla at Clarence House in London to celebrate the 80th anniversary of General Charles de Gaulle's appeal to the French population to resist the German occupation of France during the Second World War.

He is also reportedly visiting the capital to honour the city and the country as a whole by awarding London France's highest decoration - Legion d'Honneur.

Mr Macron's visit comes just before the 1 July deadline to extend the Brexit transition period beyond the end of this year.

A spokesman for the PM said the French president would not be subject to the UK's 14-day quarantine rules.

Mr Macron falls within the exempted category of "representatives of a foreign country or territory travelling to undertake business in the UK", he added.

https://news.sky.com/story/winston-...-removed-for-macrons-visit-to-london-12008569

 

[MenInG]

Oriel College in Oxford has announced that it wants to take down the controversial statue of Cecil Rhodes.

The governors of the Oxford University college voted on Wednesday to remove the statue of the colonialist.

Campaigners have called for the statue to be taken down - saying it was a symbol of imperialism and racism.

The removal is not expected to be immediate - as the college says there will need to be consultations over planning regulations.

The Rhodes Must Fall campaigners said the announcement was "hopeful", but warned they would remain cautious until the college had actually carried out the removal.

In a statement, campaigners said that until the "Rhodes statue ceases to adorn the facade of Oriel College on Oxford's High Street" there would still be protests over "imperial and colonial iconography" in university buildings.

Oriel College's governors said the decision had been reached "after a thoughtful period of debate and reflection" - and in "full awareness of the impact these decisions are likely to have in Britain and around the world".

The college is to launch an "independent commission of inquiry" into the legacy of Cecil Rhodes, which also includes scholarships at the university.

The commission, to be headed by Carole Souter, will also consider wider issues, such as support for black and ethnic minority students and a commitment to "diversity" - and will consult with groups including students, local people, councillors and the Rhodes Must Fall campaigners.

Susan Brown, leader of Oxford City Council, backed the decision to take down the statue - and said the college's inquiry would be a chance to decide where the statue will "best be curated in future".

The fate of the statue has divided opinion.

Labour MP Bell Ribeiro-Addy called it the "right decision" on Twitter, adding that it was "time to take figures like Rhodes down off their pedestals".

Alan Rusbridger, principal of Lady Margaret Hall in Oxford, also welcomed the decision, tweeting: "I hope they can find a good home for him where we can discuss him rather than (appear to) venerate him."

'Generosity'
However, former Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan tweeted that "Rhodes's generosity allowed thousands of young people to enjoy an education they could not otherwise have had".

"Why would anyone give to an institution that treats its benefactors this way?" he asked.

Earlier on Wednesday the universities minister had spoken against calls to remove the statue.

Michelle Donelan said it would be "short sighted" to try to "rewrite our history" - and rejected attempts to "censor or edit" the past.

"I want to be really clear that racism is abhorrent and shouldn't be tolerated anywhere in our society, and that includes universities," she told a Higher Education Policy Institute event.

Ms Donelan said she was opposed to the renaming of buildings named after the 19th Century statesman, William Gladstone, or the removal of the Rhodes statue.

'Hiding' the past
Protesters on the streets of Oxford have called for the statue to be taken down, saying that it represented imperialist values that were no longer acceptable.

But last week the vice-chancellor of Oxford University, Louise Richardson, gave little support for removing the statue - and warned against "hiding" the past.

"My own view on this is that hiding our history is not the route to enlightenment," Prof Richardson told the BBC.

"We need to understand this history and understand the context in which it was made and why it was that people believed then as they did," she said.

"This university has been around for 900 years. For 800 of those years the people who ran the university didn't think women were worthy of an education. Should we denounce those people?

"Personally, no - I think they were wrong, but they have to be judged by the context of their time," said Prof Richardson.

https://www.bbc.com/news/education-53082545

 

[MenInG]

Protective boarding around the statue of Sir Winston Churchill in central London has been removed for the visit of French President Emmanuel Macron.

The monument in Parliament Square was boarded up, along with several others, after it was sprayed with graffiti during a Black Lives Matter protest prompted by the death of George Floyd in the US.

Mr Macron is due to visit London on Thursday where he will meet Prime Minister Boris Johnson and attend an event with the Prince of Wales and Duchess of Cornwall.

A spokesman for the Mayor of London said: "The covering around the Winston Churchill statue will be removed for the visit of President Macron to London."

The Churchill statue was boarded up on 12 June ahead of a planned Black Lives Matter protest after demonstrators had previously daubed "was a racist" on the monument.

Lauded for his leadership as Britain's wartime prime minister and opposition to Hitler's Nazi regime, Sir Winston also espoused racist views of Indians, who he said he "hated" and considered to be "a beastly people with a beastly religion".

Prime Minister Boris Johnson said it was "absurd and shameful" that the statue was at risk of attack, saying Sir Winston remained a hero for saving the country from "fascist and racist tyranny".

Days after the monument was boarded up, there were violent scenes in London and more than 100 arrests as police struggled to keep anti-racism protesters and rival demonstrators apart.

As Black Lives Matter supporters gathered in Hyde Park, a crowd of people - some of them far-right activists - gathered in Parliament Square, where they were claiming to protect statues.

On Thursday, Mr Macron will meet Charles and Camilla at Clarence House in London to celebrate the 80th anniversary of General Charles de Gaulle's appeal to the French population to resist the German occupation of France during the Second World War.

He is also reportedly visiting the capital to honour the city and the country as a whole by awarding London France's highest decoration - Legion d'Honneur.

Mr Macron's visit comes just before the 1 July deadline to extend the Brexit transition period beyond the end of this year.

A spokesman for the PM said the French president would not be subject to the UK's 14-day quarantine rules.

Mr Macron falls within the exempted category of "representatives of a foreign country or territory travelling to undertake business in the UK", he added.

https://news.sky.com/story/winston-...-removed-for-macrons-visit-to-london-12008569

 

[MenInG]

A Confederate monument has been removed in Georgia with hundreds of onlookers chanting: "Just drop it!"

The stone obelisk had been in place in Decatur since 1908, but more recently became a flashpoint for protests over police brutality and racial injustice following the death of George Floyd.

Last week a state judge ordered its removal by 26 June following a request from the city as it had become a threat to public safety.

His order came hours before a white Atlanta police officer fatally shot a black man, 27-year-old Rayshard Brooks, in the back, sparking renewed protests in the region.

However, the Lost Cause monument came down on the eve of Juneteenth - the holiday celebrating the day in 1865 that all enslaved black people learned they had been freed.

Workers chipped it loose and a crane came in to remove it as the crowd jeered and chanted.

Mawuli Davis, of the Beacon Hill Black Alliance for Human Rights, said: "This feels great. This is a people's victory.
Crew members work to remove the the 30-foot Confederate monument which is been brought down on June 19, 2020, in Decatur northeast of Atlanta, Georgia

"All of our young people from Decatur High School that made this happen. All of these organisers, everybody came together.

"This is it. This is a victory for this country. This is an example of what can happen when people work together."

Groups have been pushing for the monument to be removed since the deadly 2017 white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Megan Beezley, a resident, said: "It's always been troubling to see that monument over there on the square.

"We spend a lot of time up here and it's troubling that our friends and our loved ones and other people of colour have to look at that monument to slavery and to the Confederacy."

A marker added last September said the monument was erected to "glorify the 'lost cause' of the Confederacy" and has "bolstered white supremacy and faulty history".

https://news.sky.com/story/confederate-monument-taken-down-in-georgia-amid-cheers-12010200

 

[Firebat]

Italy anti-racism activists deface statue, alter street name

ROME (Reuters) - Anti-racism activists poured red paint on a statue of an Italian colonial-era general and pasted over the name of a street in Rome on Friday to show solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement in the United States.

Early in the morning, the activists from a group calling itself the “Let’s Remain Human Network” changed a street sign from Via Amba Aradam to Via George Floyd and Bilal Ben Messaud.

Amba Aradam was the location of a battle that took place in 1936 when Italian colonial forces defeated Ethiopian warriors with mustard gas, tanks, and heavy artillery.

Floyd died in Minneapolis after a police officer knelt on his neck for nearly nine minutes while detaining him on May 25. His death has triggered worldwide protests against racism and police brutality.

Messaud was a migrant who died last month while trying to swim ashore from a ship off the coast of Sicily.

The same group took responsibility for splashing red paint on a statue of Antonio Baldissera, a 19th century general in Italy’s colonial forces in Abyssinia, now part of Ethiopia.

The group said in a post on Facebook that it was protesting against “structural racism” and that the actions were part of a campaign “to dismantle the symbols of colonialism” in Rome.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...deface-statue-alter-street-name-idUSKBN23Q26Z

 

[MenInG]

A statue of a Confederate general has been torn down and set on fire by protesters in Washington DC.

The monument to Albert Pike was toppled on Juneteenth, also known as Freedom Day, which marks the end of slavery in America.

Protesters topple a statue of Confederate general Albert Pike during an event to mark Juneteenth, which commemorates the end of slavery in Texas, two years after the 1863 Emancipation Proclamation freed slaves elsewhere in the United States, amid nationwide protests against racial inequality

Demonstrators wrapped ropes around the 11ft (3.4m) statue to pull it down from its granite pedestal in Judiciary Square, before dousing it in lighter fluid.

It was also sprayed with red paint before cheering demonstrators watched it burn, chanting: "No justice, no peace!" and "No racist police!"

Videos posted on social media show officers from the nearby Metropolitan Police Department headquarters arriving at the scene and carrying out a peaceful intervention.

They used fire extinguishers to put out the fire but avoided clashing with protesters. Their approach quickly prompted a critical tweet from Donald Trump.

The president criticised DC mayor Muriel Bowse, writing: "The DC police are not doing their job as they watched a statue be ripped down and burn. These people should be immediately arrested. A disgrace to our Country!"

Far from being perturbed by their president's comment, jubilant protesters read out Mr Trump's tweet over a megaphone.

After the statue fell, most protesters returned peacefully to Lafayette Park near the White House.

As a Confederate general and leader of the Freemasons, Albert Pike has long been a contentious figure in the US.

Permission was granted on the condition Pike was depicted wearing civilian, not military, clothing.

Revered by the Masons, Pike's body is interred at the DC headquarters of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.

Numerous statues have been toppled as the Black Lives Matter movement has spread across America and Europe following the killing of George Floyd in Minneapolis last month.

Floyd, 46, died after white police officer Derek Chauvin knelt on his neck for at least eight minutes while arresting him for allegedly using a counterfeit $20 note in a shop.

In the past 10 years alone, so many names have sparked movements.

Civil rights activists and local government officials have campaigned for nearly 30 years to get Pike's statue taken down but needed the federal government's approval to do so.

The DC Council say they renewed calls for Congress to remove it in 2017.

A proposed resolution calling for the removal of the statue referred to Pike as a "chief founder of the post-Civil War Ku Klux Klan".

The Klan connection is a frequent accusation from Pike's critics and one which the Masons dispute, saying there is no definitive evidence proving his relationship with the organisation.

https://news.sky.com/story/trump-an...d-links-to-kkk-is-toppled-and-burned-12010996

 

[Firebat]

Theodore Roosevelt statue to be removed by New York museum

A bronze statue of former US President Theodore Roosevelt is to be removed amid an ongoing backlash against symbols of racial bias and imperialism.

The statue outside the American Museum of Natural History in New York shows Roosevelt on horseback flanked by a Native American man and an African man.

A great-grandson of the president agreed with the removal, saying it did not reflect Roosevelt's legacy.

But President Donald Trump tweeted: "Ridiculous, don't do it!"

There has been a heated debate in the United States over the appropriateness of certain statues and commemorations since the death in police custody of African American George Floyd.

Symbols linked to the US Confederacy, which supported slavery, and imperial acquisition, such as Christopher Columbus, have been particularly targeted in the US.

But the anti-statue campaign, arising from the Black Lives Matter movement, has spread globally, with monuments targeted in a number of countries.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ridiculous, don’t do it! <a href="https://t.co/VYez8p9AJh">https://t.co/VYez8p9AJh</a></p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1274924951624200192?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 22, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53135599

 

[hamid.s]

^this is ridiculous. now they are after Teddy Roosevelt. Having a Native American and an African man on the sides while a white man is on a horse is some mental gymnastics to interpret this as racist.

Then why not remove George Washington, Ben Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson from everything as they literally owned slaves.

 

[Firebat]

Toppling of statues in West prompts reflection in Russia, Ukraine over Soviet monuments

MOSCOW/KYIV (Reuters) - The targeting of colonial-era monuments in some Western nations has prompted activists in Russia and Ukraine to reflect on how their own countries dealt with Soviet-era statues and, in some cases, to ask whether it was good enough.

Protesters have toppled or vandalised statues in the United States, Britain, Belgium and elsewhere in recent weeks in solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement against racism and police brutality.

Statues to Soviet leaders such as Vladimir Lenin and Josef Stalin became controversial for many after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 because of large-scale human rights abuses committed during decades of Communist rule.

Russia decided to keep many Soviet-era statues in place, while relocating the most contentious to a riverside park in Moscow.

Among those relocated are a statue of Stalin, who sent millions of people to the Gulag, and one of Felix Dzerzhinsky, founder of the Soviet secret police.

Arranged in the park next to neat wooden walkways, the statues were collected from across Moscow after 1991, a period when many streets were renamed and symbols of the communist regime dismantled.

“I think the toppling of the Dzerzhinsky monument was one of the most important things to happen to our country,” said Alexandra Polivanova, a researcher at the Memorial human rights centre.

Spoiler

“INCOMPLETE”

But with the tomb of Soviet state founder Lenin still retaining pride of place on Moscow’s Red Square, and with thousands of Lenin statues still standing across Russia, she believes the process did not go far enough.

“The events of 1991 turned out to be incomplete,” Polivanova said. “Unfortunately, crimes have not been properly denounced either at state level nor at the level of society. Decommunisation has not happened.”

Ukraine has torn down many more Soviet statues than Russia, especially since 2014, when mass street protests in Kyiv drove President Viktor Yanukovich from power.

Remaining Soviet monuments were then targeted for their association with Yanukovich, who had tried to rebuild closer ties with Moscow, recalled Volodymyr Viatrovych, Chairman of Ukraine’s Institute of National Remembrance.

“People started to discuss the communist past, the crimes of the communist regime and why they should never be repeated,” he said. “Especially during the winter of 2014, hundreds of Lenin monuments were toppled as symbols of everything Soviet-related.”

A law was later passed banning communist symbols in Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...a-ukraine-over-soviet-monuments-idUSKBN23T241

 

[MenInG]

Protesters tried to pull down a statue of former US President Andrew Jackson near the White House on Monday night before being dispersed by police.

Washington, DC, WUSA-TV channel reported that police used pepper spray to move protesters out of Lafayette Square, where the Jackson statue is located.

Videos posted on social media showed that the protesters had climbed on the statue, tied ropes around it, then tried to pull it off its pedestal.

A wave of nationwide rallies calling for racial justice has swept the US since May 25, when George Floyd, a 46-year-old Black man, was killed by a white police officer in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

The statue shows Jackson in a military uniform atop a rearing horse. The 19th-century president's ruthless treatment of Native Americans has made his statue a target of demonstrators protesting the US's legacy of racial injustice.

Jackson, in office from 1829 to 1837, owned more than 500 slaves over the course of his life and was a key figure in the Trail of Tears, the forced relocation of at least 60,000 Native Americans.

A helicopter circled over the gathering of hundreds of people on the newly-renamed Black Lives Matter Plaza as officers continued to use pepper spray to disperse the protesters.

The Jackson statue remained on its pedestal on Monday night.

President Donald Trump tweeted late on Monday that "numerous people" had been arrested for "the disgraceful vandalism."

He added: "10 years in prison under the Veteran's Memorial Preservation Act. Beware!"

Secretary of the Interior David Bernhardt was at the scene on Monday night, and issued a statement saying: "Let me be clear: we will not bow to anarchists. Law and order will prevail, and justice will be served."

On June 1, law enforcement officers forcefully cleared peaceful protesters from Lafayette Square so Trump could stage a photo op at a nearby church.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/06/protesters-pull-president-statue-dc-200623061347750.html

 

[MenInG]

U.S. President Donald Trump has authorised the Federal Government to arrest anyone who vandalises statues amid Black Lives Matter protests in the country, and has warned that anyone who commits such an act faces up to 10 years in prison

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I have authorized the Federal Government to arrest anyone who vandalizes or destroys any monument, statue or other such Federal property in the U.S. with up to 10 years in prison, per the Veteran’s Memorial Preservation Act, or such other laws that may be pertinent.....</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1275379758021390336?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 23, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[sweep_shot]

I don't mind these statues going down but they should do it without vandalizing other businesses (something that happened recently).

Also, mob shouldn't do this; this should be done by government in a civilized manner.

 

[Firebat]

France Colbert row: Statue vandalised over slavery code

An activist has vandalised the statue of a French statesman outside the country's parliament.

Jean-Baptiste Colbert helped write the Code Noir or Black Code in the 17th Century which defined slavery and race in France's colonial empire.

Footage posted on social media shows the activist spraying Colbert's statue with red paint on Tuesday.

He sprayed the words "state negrophobia" at the base of the monument before police detained him.

The group Brigade Anti Négrophobie posted the video and the man is himself wearing a shirt bearing their name.

French government spokeswoman Sibeth Ndiaye criticised the graffiti, saying people should consider "the historical facts as they unfolded".

"I feel it's more useful to use the context in which historical figures made decisions," she told reporters at her weekly press briefing, saying people should not forget everything Colbert did, though adding that the Code Noir was "indeed an important subject".

The murder of George Floyd by US police in the city of Minneapolis last month has prompted a wave of demonstrations worldwide against police brutality and institutional racism.

Statues of racist or slave-owning historical figures have also been targeted.

In France there have been mass protests over the death of Adama Traoré, a 24-year-old killed in police custody in 2016. Demonstrators have likened his death to that of George Floyd.

This is not the first French statue to be vandalised in recent weeks. In the northern city of Lille, protesters wrote the words "murderer" and "colonist" on the statue of Louis Faidherbe, a 19th Century governor of Senegal when it was a French colony.

Spoiler

Who was Jean-Baptiste Colbert?

Colbert was a French statesman who served King Louis XIV during the 17th Century.

He earned the nickname "The Great Colbert" for economic reforms he put in place as France expanded its colonial empire overseas.

In the 1680s, he helped write the Code Noir on the orders of the king. It set out a number of regulations for French colonies in the Americas and the Caribbean, including banning Jewish people from all France's colonies, defining how slavery would work, and restricting the freedoms of free black people.

As protests have spread in France in recent weeks Colbert has become an increasingly controversial figure.

Colbert's statue sits outside the French parliament, the National Assembly. There is also a building inside named Colbert Hall, and other structures around the country bearing his name.

Jean-Marc Ayrault, former prime minister and the president of France's Foundation for the Remembrance of Slavery in Nantes, has called for Colbert Hall to be renamed.

"The time has come for France to take a new step concerning the question of colonisation and slavery," he told the Ouest France newspaper.

"I am not saying that we dismantle all the statues, for example, but that we affix a plaque recalling who Colbert is and what he did," Mr Ayrault said.

President Emmanuel Macron said earlier this month that France "will forget none of its artworks, it won't take down statues" in the wake of the protests.

"I will be very clear tonight, compatriots: the Republic won't erase any name from its history," he said in a televised address.

Statues have been defaced and toppled across Europe in recent weeks, including in Belgium and the UK.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53163714

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

^this is ridiculous. now they are after Teddy Roosevelt. Having a Native American and an African man on the sides while a white man is on a horse is some mental gymnastics to interpret this as racist.

Then why not remove George Washington, Ben Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson from everything as they literally owned slaves.

I don't think the interpretation is wrong, they were racist, but there's no point in trying to wipe out history. The problem in America isn't the racism of yesterday's great leaders, it's the lack of opportunity or discriminatory policing in today's America.

 

[The Viper]

Statue of US slavery advocate taken down in South Carolina

Several hundred people gathered in Marion Square, in the historic South Carolina city of Charleston, early Wednesday to watch the removal of a statue of former United States vice president and slavery advocate John C Calhoun.

Officials voted unanimously on Tuesday to remove the statue from the downtown square, the latest in a wave of actions arising from protests against racism and police brutality against African Americans.

The move comes in the aftermath of protests in the US that broke out - leading to widespread unrest - after the death of George Floyd on May 25 in Minneapolis. Protesters and public officials have made demands that include the removal of any public statues or monuments perceived to be symbols of racism and colonisation in the US.

Some onlookers grew restless after 1am and began to leave just before crews used bucket trucks to soar more than 30 metres (100 feet) in the air to the top of the statue to make preparations for its takedown.

Another piece of equipment that appeared to have pulleys attached was raised to the height of the statue from Calhoun Street, the roadway that marks the southern border of the square where the statue sits and also bears Calhoun's name.

John C Calhoun's support of slavery never wavered. He said in several speeches on the US Senate floor in the 1830s that slaves in the South were better off than free Blacks in the North while calling slavery a "positive good".

'A new chapter'
Council members approved the measure 13-0 at a late-day meeting. The resolution authorised the removal of the statue of the former US vice president and senator from South Carolina.

City officials said eventually the Calhoun statue will be placed permanently at "an appropriate site where it will be protected and preserved".

The vote comes a week after Charleston's mayor, John Tecklenburg, announced he would send the resolution to the city council.

"I believe that we are setting a new chapter, a more equitable chapter, in our city's history," Tecklenburg said, just before the vote. "We are making the right step. It's just simply the right thing for us to do."

Council members heard from dozens of residents for and against the statue's removal.

'Take it down!'

Councilman Karl L Brady Jr said he knew his support of the statue's removal may cost him votes, but he was voting his conscience in a move he said shows in Charleston, "we place white supremacy and white supremacist thought back where it belongs - on the ash heap of history".

Last Wednesday, when Tecklenburg announced his plans to remove the statue, dozens of protesters linked arms around the monument, shouting, "Take it down!"

Video posted on Twitter also showed signs and spray-painting on the monument. Police said they made several arrests for vandalism and ultimately closed off the area overnight.

In the heart of downtown Charleston, Calhoun towers over a sprawling square that is frequented by locals and tourists alike and that is a frequent venue for festivals and large public events.

Several organisers have said recently they would no longer use the space while the statue remained.

About 40 percent of enslaved Africans brought to North America came through the port city of Charleston, which formally apologised in 2018 for its role in the slave trade.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/06/statue-slavery-advocate-south-carolina-200624121700156.html