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[VIDEO] Time for Yasir Shah to show his true value for Pakistan

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Time's running out for him and this tour is probably the last big chance for him to show why he is the number one choice for Pakistan.

He has all the help and support he needs - Mushtaq Ahmed his mentor by his side, Misbah who really believe in his abilities egging him on.

All that is needed is for him to do his business and get Pakistan the wickets they need.

Will he deliver or disappoint again?
 
I doubt Yasir Shah can reinvent himself at age 34. And all indications seem to be that he will have more of a defensive role with the fast bowlers attacking.

I think it'll be a reasonable tour for him if he can take 10-12 wickets and keep his average around 35.
An average under 32 would be really good considering he will likely bowl a ton of overs.
 
Did decently in warm ups, we can only hope it wasnt just an illusion and he can bowl well in the first test as well. Eng arent always comfortable against spin as Chase showed us as well but, key would be accuracy and bit more flight and loop then Yasir’s usual overseas adventures.

If he can keep his economy around 3-3.3 and not high 4 or 5 it would be good support to the pacers. Just needs to be accurate as Eng batsmen are not good at using their feet and sweep shots, pressure is only gonna be created in if he doest give half volleys and short balls.
 
Especially with the dry English summer and weather in Manchester he will be more useful... Hopefully.
 
I think we're clutching at straws I'm afraid. Dude's been useless for the best part of 4 years and yet he still gets rewarded with selection.

He's not worked hard enough to remedy his shortcomings which is shameful and letting his fitness go downhill. I'm sure he he's going to get picked for the first Test so we will have to get behind him for the sake of the team.
 
He just doesn't look fit to me. Seems like he's carrying a few too many kilos.

Another issue is that he hasn't developed the googly as he should have. By now that googly should have been perfect.
 
Big test for him. If he fails this time, I think Pakistan should move on from him.

He hasn't been able to fill the void after Saeed Ajmal's retirement.
 
He just doesn't look fit to me. Seems like he's carrying a few too many kilos.

Another issue is that he hasn't developed the googly as he should have. By now that googly should have been perfect.

Yeah, he isn't. Another question is why he bowled only 5 overs when even Naseem did 20?
 
He just doesn't look fit to me. Seems like he's carrying a few too many kilos.

Another issue is that he hasn't developed the googly as he should have. By now that googly should have been perfect.
I don’t think you can bowl a googly with that kind of round-arm action - even Shane Warne couldn’t! Round arm actions give you accuracy and repeatability and drift, but not scope to bowl a googly.

It’s why I think that Shadab Khan actually offers Mushtaq Ahmed more to work with - at least with his higher arm action he can bowl at least one type of googly.

I know that Shadab lacks Yasir’s accuracy in terms of line and length. But unlike Yasir he can move it in both directions.
 
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Yasir Shah has shown us in SENA exactly what he is capable of.

12 Tests over 4 years
32 wickets
Average of 63.50 runs per wicket.
 
I don’t think you can bowl a googly with that kind of round-arm action - even Shane Warne couldn’t! Round arm actions give you accuracy and repeatability and drift, but not scope to bowl a googly.

It’s why I think that Shadab Khan actually offers Mushtaq Ahmed more to work with - at least with his higher arm action he can bowl at least one type of googly.

I know that Shadab lacks Yasir’s accuracy in terms of line and length. But unlike Yasir he can move it in both directions.

Wonder if Pak think tank will throw in Shadab in the melee if results dont go according to plan in the 1st Test?
 
Yasir, for all his struggles, is still miles ahead than Shadab with the ball and probably on par with the bat.
 
Yasir, for all his struggles, is still miles ahead than Shadab with the ball and probably on par with the bat.
Yasir has reached 45 with the bat 1 time in 58 Test innings.

Shadab has reached 45 with the bat 4 times in 9 Test innings.
 
Yasir, for all his struggles, is still miles ahead than Shadab with the ball and probably on par with the bat.
Yasir averages 63.50 with the ball outside Asia.

Shadab averages 38.83 with the ball outside Asia.
 
I don’t think you can bowl a googly with that kind of round-arm action - even Shane Warne couldn’t! Round arm actions give you accuracy and repeatability and drift, but not scope to bowl a googly.

It’s why I think that Shadab Khan actually offers Mushtaq Ahmed more to work with - at least with his higher arm action he can bowl at least one type of googly.

I know that Shadab lacks Yasir’s accuracy in terms of line and length. But unlike Yasir he can move it in both directions.

I think there is way too much emphasis on bowling a googly alone, for you to be able to utilise its effectiveness you require an excellent stock delivery which Shadab doesn't have!! we will just treat him like an off spinner and smack him around like a little boy
 
Yasir has Mushy back to help him out. His form dipped when Mushy left the set up.

I am hoping Yasir can be a important part of the team as England don't play quality leg spin well and the weather has improved.
 
I think there is way too much emphasis on bowling a googly alone, for you to be able to utilise its effectiveness you require an excellent stock delivery which Shadab doesn't have!! we will just treat him like an off spinner and smack him around like a little boy

Your choice of language aside, I fully agree with this. I would play Shadab for the purposes of developing him even at the cost of the series because I see a future captain in him, but if Pakistan is to stand a chance in this series Shadab cannot play ahead of Yasir.

The weather is getting hotter, and spinners will have an increased role compared to any English series in the past. Here, an experienced spinner with a good stock ball will be key as long as he is bowling to pinpoint accuracy and with the right amount of flight and turn. Shadab does not have a seasoned stock ball — he simply has not played enough first class.
 
With all due respect given the recent history and form, I would surely play Shadab over Yasir.
 
Are there any leg spinners in the England squad? With the recent Covid break too, will it really be around 6 months since their batsman last played leg spin?

I feel like the management would have prepared for the series knowing Pakistan will definitely play a leg spinner.

But either way - this could play in Yasir’s hand.
 
If Yasir is fit (which I don’t think he is), he will be the highest wicket taker for Pakistan in this series. I am afraid he’ll be played in first or even first two Tests despite not being 100% fit and then rested in third Test. Still, I am expecting him to take quite few wickets.
 
IICRC, in last decade, PAK has won six Tests outside Asia excluding Bobby Mughabe’s Zimbabwe & Ireland. Two against WIN, three against ENG & one against NZ (that too almost 10 years back).

In those five Tests (I exclude the NZ one, which was before Yasir’s debut), Yasir has played four .... and has taken 31 wickets at an average of 21 in those four wins, with four 5fors & one 10for. A performing Yasir is that important for PAK out side Asia.

He is over aged, over weight & unfit, hence I see some people had the guts to pull him down, otherwise in last 6 years, without Yasir how many Tests PAK could have won in and outside Asia could be a research topic.

Fantastic leg spinner, the best of his generation who was drafted at least 6 years later than it should have been, otherwise guy could have been first Pakistani bowler to take 500 Test wickets. In PAK domestics where they play less FC overs than even BD domestics, he was debuted after 270+ FC wickets and probably into his 12th year of FC career, which was punishable crime.

Most people don’t have much clue how a leg spinner works - I give just one clue as food for thought: in his career Yasir has bowled over 80% overs against the wind for a predominantly 3+1 bowling combination, which allowed PCT management to keep their pacers in one piece. I read lots of rubbish about his 1-200 sort of figures ..... in batting innings over 500-600 runs where batting side declared - it only tells me that in a rubbish bowling effort these guy kept bowling tirelessly from one end. Otherwise, when you play three pacers, unless they are rubbish, you don’t expect your leggi to bowl 40% overs in first innings.
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - I understand he lost the Old Trafford Test in 2016 for his 54-6-213-1 effort in a first innings of 589-8d - there were three other pacers bowling in that innings that including the guy England “fears” - Mohammad Amir ..... what the f*** those three did using the fresh OT track on first two days and why should a leggi bowl 54 overs out of 152, in first innings for a 3+1 combination including 31 overs on day 1 itself?
 
IICRC, in last decade, PAK has won six Tests outside Asia excluding Bobby Mughabe’s Zimbabwe & Ireland. Two against WIN, three against ENG & one against NZ (that too almost 10 years back).

In those five Tests (I exclude the NZ one, which was before Yasir’s debut), Yasir has played four .... and has taken 31 wickets at an average of 21 in those four wins, with four 5fors & one 10for. A performing Yasir is that important for PAK out side Asia.

He is over aged, over weight & unfit, hence I see some people had the guts to pull him down, otherwise in last 6 years, without Yasir how many Tests PAK could have won in and outside Asia could be a research topic.

Fantastic leg spinner, the best of his generation who was drafted at least 6 years later than it should have been, otherwise guy could have been first Pakistani bowler to take 500 Test wickets. In PAK domestics where they play less FC overs than even BD domestics, he was debuted after 270+ FC wickets and probably into his 12th year of FC career, which was punishable crime.

Most people don’t have much clue how a leg spinner works - I give just one clue as food for thought: in his career Yasir has bowled over 80% overs against the wind for a predominantly 3+1 bowling combination, which allowed PCT management to keep their pacers in one piece. I read lots of rubbish about his 1-200 sort of figures ..... in batting innings over 500-600 runs where batting side declared - it only tells me that in a rubbish bowling effort these guy kept bowling tirelessly from one end. Otherwise, when you play three pacers, unless they are rubbish, you don’t expect your leggi to bowl 40% overs in first innings.

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - I understand he lost the Old Trafford Test in 2016 for his 54-6-213-1 effort in a first innings of 589-8d - there were three other pacers bowling in that innings that including the guy England “fears” - Mohammad Amir ..... what the f*** those three did using the fresh OT track on first two days and why should a leggi bowl 54 overs out of 152, in first innings for a 3+1 combination including 31 overs on day 1 itself?

They have won 4 in England bro. 1 in 2010, 2 in 2016 and 1 in 2018. Also 3 in Windies. 1 in 2011 and 2 in 2017.
 
They have won 4 in England bro. 1 in 2010, 2 in 2016 and 1 in 2018. Also 3 in Windies. 1 in 2011 and 2 in 2017.

Five since Yasir debuted & those are four he played - 4 Tests, 31 wickets @ 21, 4 5for, 1 10for; economy below 3, SR around 50.
 
IICRC, in last decade, PAK has won six Tests outside Asia excluding Bobby Mughabe’s Zimbabwe & Ireland. Two against WIN, three against ENG & one against NZ (that too almost 10 years back).

In those five Tests (I exclude the NZ one, which was before Yasir’s debut), Yasir has played four .... and has taken 31 wickets at an average of 21 in those four wins, with four 5fors & one 10for. A performing Yasir is that important for PAK out side Asia.

He is over aged, over weight & unfit, hence I see some people had the guts to pull him down, otherwise in last 6 years, without Yasir how many Tests PAK could have won in and outside Asia could be a research topic.

Fantastic leg spinner, the best of his generation who was drafted at least 6 years later than it should have been, otherwise guy could have been first Pakistani bowler to take 500 Test wickets. In PAK domestics where they play less FC overs than even BD domestics, he was debuted after 270+ FC wickets and probably into his 12th year of FC career, which was punishable crime.

Most people don’t have much clue how a leg spinner works - I give just one clue as food for thought: in his career Yasir has bowled over 80% overs against the wind for a predominantly 3+1 bowling combination, which allowed PCT management to keep their pacers in one piece. I read lots of rubbish about his 1-200 sort of figures ..... in batting innings over 500-600 runs where batting side declared - it only tells me that in a rubbish bowling effort these guy kept bowling tirelessly from one end. Otherwise, when you play three pacers, unless they are rubbish, you don’t expect your leggi to bowl 40% overs in first innings.

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] - I understand he lost the Old Trafford Test in 2016 for his 54-6-213-1 effort in a first innings of 589-8d - there were three other pacers bowling in that innings that including the guy England “fears” - Mohammad Amir ..... what the f*** those three did using the fresh OT track on first two days and why should a leggi bowl 54 overs out of 152, in first innings for a 3+1 combination including 31 overs on day 1 itself?

Let me preface my point by stating that Yasir Shah is very much in the autumn of his career. I've always found the vehement criticism he gets from Pakistani fans quite strange, given his general record for his country. I agree that he needs to get in better shape, and most importantly, believe in his own ability again. His last two years don't merit him being selected, but no other spinners have kicked the door down either.

Now, [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] tends to have these hills that he chooses to die on. One of those prominent hills is the myth that there is this *huge* gap differential between what Yasir and Shadab offer.

He will use stats ad infinetum to make his point about how much a star Shadab was in 2017 and how Yasir, outside of Asia is a complete burden, without actually using some qualitative analysis.

Bowling attacks are most effective when they complement each other, and whilst Shah could most definitely do better in SENA, a lot of the time his role has been very unclear overseas. Does he attack? Does he defend? Is he the chief wicket taker? How do the quicks play around him? In SENA, his role has both been unclear and he's been bowled into the ground. 30 overs a day using a leg spinners action is brutal, by any viewpoint. And he's bowling those because Pak have to pad up their batting with the extra bat.

This same tactical fogginess will inhibit Shadab as well, except that he doesn't have a consistent test length and a stock delivery to fall back on, if (when) a Butler, Stokes or Crawley take him on. How could he? The lad has learnt his trade using reactive bowling techniques in T20, rather than using patience, planning and anticipation to get a batsmen out, skills honed in FC. But he can bat!!! So let's pick him!

And let's not discount the personality that Yasir Shah brings to the dressing room. He's a character and definitely a fighter, a component that every test team needs. He's also generally a stubborn batsmen, and in series which might take place during a heatwave, crease occupation to tire the English quicks could having a bearing on the matches.

In closing, based on his recent performances, I'm not expecting much. But I'm also hoping InshAllah that Yasir proves us all wrong. It's his last couple of years in the Pakistan team, and I want him to go out with a bang.
 
I love Yasir Shah, he’s probably my favorite cricketer. Always smiling, it’s not easy when you don’t know how or when you will get a wicket next while taking a beating.

He has single-handingly kept the Test team competing for six years. He should have been drafted in 2012, when he took eight wickets against the Number 1 side at that time, England.

But he’s been overbowled, overworked, made to take the blame (horrendous leg-side line in AUS) for bad decisions and yet never goes crying to the media like some of his teammates (Hafeez, Malik, Akmals).

He has however, lost his ability to spin the ball, make it bounce, drift, etc. And he has lost it since late 2015, never recovering from the back spasms he encountered during the winter for which he was rushed back because PAK nearly lost against ENG from an improbable position.
 
Apart from not developing the googly he is also not a great turner of the ball.

He is in the side due to his experience and some of this previous performances against England.

I still think he is better than Shadab. Shadab is yet to establish himself properly in T20 cricket so using him as a frontline spinner would only make sense if Yasir isn't delivering or is injured.

Despite all their achievements and coaching experience why haven't Mushtaq or Saqlain been able to improve the spin bowling situation in Pakistan?
 
Let me preface my point by stating that Yasir Shah is very much in the autumn of his career. I've always found the vehement criticism he gets from Pakistani fans quite strange, given his general record for his country. I agree that he needs to get in better shape, and most importantly, believe in his own ability again. His last two years don't merit him being selected, but no other spinners have kicked the door down either.

Now, [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] tends to have these hills that he chooses to die on. One of those prominent hills is the myth that there is this *huge* gap differential between what Yasir and Shadab offer.

He will use stats ad infinetum to make his point about how much a star Shadab was in 2017 and how Yasir, outside of Asia is a complete burden, without actually using some qualitative analysis.

Bowling attacks are most effective when they complement each other, and whilst Shah could most definitely do better in SENA, a lot of the time his role has been very unclear overseas. Does he attack? Does he defend? Is he the chief wicket taker? How do the quicks play around him? In SENA, his role has both been unclear and he's been bowled into the ground. 30 overs a day using a leg spinners action is brutal, by any viewpoint. And he's bowling those because Pak have to pad up their batting with the extra bat.

This same tactical fogginess will inhibit Shadab as well, except that he doesn't have a consistent test length and a stock delivery to fall back on, if (when) a Butler, Stokes or Crawley take him on. How could he? The lad has learnt his trade using reactive bowling techniques in T20, rather than using patience, planning and anticipation to get a batsmen out, skills honed in FC. But he can bat!!! So let's pick him!

And let's not discount the personality that Yasir Shah brings to the dressing room. He's a character and definitely a fighter, a component that every test team needs. He's also generally a stubborn batsmen, and in series which might take place during a heatwave, crease occupation to tire the English quicks could having a bearing on the matches.

In closing, based on his recent performances, I'm not expecting much. But I'm also hoping InshAllah that Yasir proves us all wrong. It's his last couple of years in the Pakistan team, and I want him to go out with a bang.

It’s an insult for a Test cricketer like Yasir Shah to be compared with someone like Shadab - a true bits & pieces cricketer whose only sell value is in 20/10 overs cricket where batsmen are forced to go after the bowling. In fact, if given proper opportunities, Gohar will be much potent Test cricketer than Shadab. The stat that Junaids like to use every time is Shadab’s average of <40 in UK, which is a blunt lie, and I caught him on that last he tried to sell me the stats. Shadab’s mighty average is based on his four tail Enders against Ireland (out of his grand total of five wickets there), a game that unfortunately Yasir missed, otherwise Irish batting display against Yasir would have been a treat to watch. And, day by day the comparisons are getting hilariously stupid - last one was batting comparison - Shadab Khan giving 70 runs per Test ..... Yasir Shah 10.

If I were a Shadab fan, last thing I would have mentioned is his Ireland heroics (indeed heroics - he took #8, 10 & jack after pacers reduced Ireland to 66/6 or so), because I understand cricket little. After enforcing the follow on, it took PAK bowling innings to reach 102 overs for Shadab to get his first wicket in second innings, again No. 8 and his outstanding display almost allowed Ireland to post a match winning total after being forced to follow on - PAK lost six wickets chasing ~160... another 40, Irish could have set the stage for Shadab to be a bigger hero with bat. For a lead leggi of the Test bowling unit - this one has to be a gem of an achievement; I wish ever this guy could play couple of Tests in Australia or against Nadia. For his bowling quality, no PAK Captain will ever give him 35+ overs in an innings, therefore yes Shadab might not go for 200 in an innings ever, but I would love to come back here the day he takes a Test 5for; let alone 10for.
 
Let me preface my point by stating that Yasir Shah is very much in the autumn of his career. I've always found the vehement criticism he gets from Pakistani fans quite strange, given his general record for his country. I agree that he needs to get in better shape, and most importantly, believe in his own ability again. His last two years don't merit him being selected, but no other spinners have kicked the door down either.

In the last QAE FC season, the 25-year old Gohar was the third-leading wicket taker and the 21-year old Asghar was the fourth-leading wicket taker.

At some point the selectors need to give those guys a chance - and their couldn't have been a better opportunity than the home games against Bangladesh or SL.

We gotta stop using the excuse that no other spinners are stepping up. If Yasir just plays in perpetuity, than no one else has the opportunity to showcase themselves. (this isn't advocating for Shadab to play - he clearly isn't a Test quality player yet)
 
It’s an insult for a Test cricketer like Yasir Shah to be compared with someone like Shadab - a true bits & pieces cricketer whose only sell value is in 20/10 overs cricket where batsmen are forced to go after the bowling. In fact, if given proper opportunities, Gohar will be much potent Test cricketer than Shadab. The stat that Junaids like to use every time is Shadab’s average of <40 in UK, which is a blunt lie, and I caught him on that last he tried to sell me the stats. Shadab’s mighty average is based on his four tail Enders against Ireland (out of his grand total of five wickets there), a game that unfortunately Yasir missed, otherwise Irish batting display against Yasir would have been a treat to watch. And, day by day the comparisons are getting hilariously stupid - last one was batting comparison - Shadab Khan giving 70 runs per Test ..... Yasir Shah 10.

If I were a Shadab fan, last thing I would have mentioned is his Ireland heroics (indeed heroics - he took #8, 10 & jack after pacers reduced Ireland to 66/6 or so), because I understand cricket little. After enforcing the follow on, it took PAK bowling innings to reach 102 overs for Shadab to get his first wicket in second innings, again No. 8 and his outstanding display almost allowed Ireland to post a match winning total after being forced to follow on - PAK lost six wickets chasing ~160... another 40, Irish could have set the stage for Shadab to be a bigger hero with bat. For a lead leggi of the Test bowling unit - this one has to be a gem of an achievement; I wish ever this guy could play couple of Tests in Australia or against Nadia. For his bowling quality, no PAK Captain will ever give him 35+ overs in an innings, therefore yes Shadab might not go for 200 in an innings ever, but I would love to come back here the day he takes a Test 5for; let alone 10for.

But nobody is saying that they are the same thing. Just like Graeme Swann was a specialist off-spinner while Moeen Ali was a middle-order batsman who could bowl part-time off-spin.

Shadab Khan is a lower-middle order batsman who can bowl moderate leg-spin. Like Mushtaq Mohammad or Shahid Afridi. He can't be a specialist spinner but in SENA he allows you to pick 4 quicks and get 10-15 overs per day from him on Days 1-4 and to bowl properly on a wearing wicket on Day 5. And the fact that he has a googly means that he will do well against the tail. If the opposition is 240-7 with 15 overs left in the match, the last six of which will be with a new ball, he is probably your man.

Yasir Shah is a specialist leg-spinner, who once scored more than 45 in a Test innings on a wicket where the opposition scored 589-3 declared, but probably won't ever do it again. But he struggles terribly outside Asia and bleeds 4 runs per over, so he is almost unselectable outside Asia. if he gets to bowl on a wearing pitch on Day 5 he might win you a Test one day, but more often he will have figures of 45-5-200-1. I would prefer in SENA to pick a fourth quick plus Shadab.
 
My big fear is him getting injured. No decent spinner in the side if this were to happen.
 
It'll be very interesting to visit this thread once Yasir has served his usual 25-3-105-2 figures in the 1st few test matches. No disrespect to the guy but he's done. I am not expecting any 5fers from him in the test series. We should go with 4 pacers for the OT test like ENG have. This expectation that Yasir will somehow blow ENG away on a 4th/5th day pitch is a delusion. He has yet to do that for a while.
 
The pacers need to do the job in engaland Yasir role should be to keep it tight pick up the odd wicket and hopefully come into his own on a 5th day target

He needs to be managed and not flogged for 30 overs a day on a dead wicket
 
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But nobody is saying that they are the same thing. Just like Graeme Swann was a specialist off-spinner while Moeen Ali was a middle-order batsman who could bowl part-time off-spin.

Shadab Khan is a lower-middle order batsman who can bowl moderate leg-spin. Like Mushtaq Mohammad or Shahid Afridi. He can't be a specialist spinner but in SENA he allows you to pick 4 quicks and get 10-15 overs per day from him on Days 1-4 and to bowl properly on a wearing wicket on Day 5. And the fact that he has a googly means that he will do well against the tail. If the opposition is 240-7 with 15 overs left in the match, the last six of which will be with a new ball, he is probably your man.

Yasir Shah is a specialist leg-spinner, who once scored more than 45 in a Test innings on a wicket where the opposition scored 589-3 declared, but probably won't ever do it again. But he struggles terribly outside Asia and bleeds 4 runs per over, so he is almost unselectable outside Asia. if he gets to bowl on a wearing pitch on Day 5 he might win you a Test one day, but more often he will have figures of 45-5-200-1. I would prefer in SENA to pick a fourth quick plus Shadab.

Your whole theory is based on a flawed logic - 4 pacers. PAK can’t & must not plan their attack based on pace only. One reason is that spinners play a vital role in PAK’s cricket at every level; but the main reason is that PAK is not England, South Africa or New Zealand where spinners main role is to manage over rate. It often has been the most versatile attack after Australia and spinners have been the key to PAK’s success in almost every series. There are individual Tests where spinners role wasn’t significant, but planning a PAK attack with four pacers and a part-time spinner is almost suicidal. Long back, I can recall PAK picking four pacers in a Test in SAF - ended up losing by ~350 runs; would have lost by innings had SAF enforced the follow-on.

By the way, you didn’t answer my point - why Yasir should bowl 31 overs in day 1 and 54 overs out of 152 with three pacers? Without Yasir and a 4th pacer in his place, it would have ended England scoring both innings combined runs in first one and PAK ending up with two pacers limping out.

Yasir indeed can win a Test on a wearing pitch on day 4-5, as I said he did that four times; which is 80% of PAK’s win in a decade outside Asia unless you take ZIM & Ireland - I’ll take that, though his 6for at Lord’s was in first innings, on a day 2 track. As I said, he has faked probably 5/6 years of age, always struggling for over weight & fitness therefore his selection can be questioned - I myself am not sure if he can last 5 days, let alone 15 but that has nothing to do with Shadab, the leggi. PAK should have taken Gohar as well and if not Yasir, Gohar should have played as the lead spinner.
 
Your whole theory is based on a flawed logic - 4 pacers. PAK can’t & must not plan their attack based on pace only. One reason is that spinners play a vital role in PAK’s cricket at every level; but the main reason is that PAK is not England, South Africa or New Zealand where spinners main role is to manage over rate. It often has been the most versatile attack after Australia and spinners have been the key to PAK’s success in almost every series. There are individual Tests where spinners role wasn’t significant, but planning a PAK attack with four pacers and a part-time spinner is almost suicidal. Long back, I can recall PAK picking four pacers in a Test in SAF - ended up losing by ~350 runs; would have lost by innings had SAF enforced the follow-on.

By the way, you didn’t answer my point - why Yasir should bowl 31 overs in day 1 and 54 overs out of 152 with three pacers? Without Yasir and a 4th pacer in his place, it would have ended England scoring both innings combined runs in first one and PAK ending up with two pacers limping out.

Yasir indeed can win a Test on a wearing pitch on day 4-5, as I said he did that four times; which is 80% of PAK’s win in a decade outside Asia unless you take ZIM & Ireland - I’ll take that, though his 6for at Lord’s was in first innings, on a day 2 track. As I said, he has faked probably 5/6 years of age, always struggling for over weight & fitness therefore his selection can be questioned - I myself am not sure if he can last 5 days, let alone 15 but that has nothing to do with Shadab, the leggi. PAK should have taken Gohar as well and if not Yasir, Gohar should have played as the lead spinner.

I think that Shadab is going to play anyway, because he’s the only guy who can bat in the Top Seven and bowl some overs.

So it comes down to this. Both of the following players are probably older than their official ages and neither is at 100% fitness. And their batting is the same.

But who is going to be more use as your fourth bowler, with a Dukes Ball in England: Yasir Shah or Mohammad Amir?

I can’t believe that anyone would consider leaving Amir to watch from the pavilion. I’d get it if he wasn’t in the country. But he’s at the ground!

In Asia I’d pick Yasir Shah. In England I’d always pick Amir.
 
I think that Shadab is going to play anyway, because he’s the only guy who can bat in the Top Seven and bowl some overs.

So it comes down to this. Both of the following players are probably older than their official ages and neither is at 100% fitness. And their batting is the same.

But who is going to be more use as your fourth bowler, with a Dukes Ball in England: Yasir Shah or Mohammad Amir?

I can’t believe that anyone would consider leaving Amir to watch from the pavilion. I’d get it if he wasn’t in the country. But he’s at the ground!

In Asia I’d pick Yasir Shah. In England I’d always pick Amir.

On a dry wearing pitch producing a bit of turn in the middle of a heatwave? I’ll take my chances with a spinner, thanks.
 
In the last QAE FC season, the 25-year old Gohar was the third-leading wicket taker and the 21-year old Asghar was the fourth-leading wicket taker.

At some point the selectors need to give those guys a chance - and their couldn't have been a better opportunity than the home games against Bangladesh or SL.

We gotta stop using the excuse that no other spinners are stepping up. If Yasir just plays in perpetuity, than no one else has the opportunity to showcase themselves. (this isn't advocating for Shadab to play - he clearly isn't a Test quality player yet)

I agree on selectors needing a more thought out plan for giving youngsters a chance, if nothing else but to establish bench strength. I would have loved to see Zafar Gohar over Kashif Bhatti for this tour. In a vacuum, you're also right that these young lads should have been given a chance for atleast the Bangladesh test. However, (and this is not a defence of his selections) Misbah needed to play his most trusted team against SL and Bang in tests to regain some winning momentum after the poor Australia tour. He also needed to get Yasir's confidence back before the England series, and that is why Gohar et al were not given a chance.

I think the issue here is this, and a part solution to these problems: Pakistan need to reliably assess (younger) alternatives to the incumbents in the team. One surefire way of doing this is through A team tours. I appreciate that we are in COVID times, but the lack of A Team tour planning has been very frustrating to see from the PCB. The stagnation of talent in such a scenario is evident.
 
I feel honestly a seaming pitch will take spin, as an indian fan i remember hamilton in 2009 or durban in 2010 when harbie took heaps but it seamed big on the first fewdays, heck even veeru took a few in perth 2006.any ways, ifyou bat first -get 325-350, you have the bowling to get english batting which without Root and possibly stokes and butler aintthat hot....i definately feel yasir would be a massive factor on the last day. willbe competitive
 
I agree on selectors needing a more thought out plan for giving youngsters a chance, if nothing else but to establish bench strength. I would have loved to see Zafar Gohar over Kashif Bhatti for this tour. In a vacuum, you're also right that these young lads should have been given a chance for atleast the Bangladesh test. However, (and this is not a defence of his selections) Misbah needed to play his most trusted team against SL and Bang in tests to regain some winning momentum after the poor Australia tour. He also needed to get Yasir's confidence back before the England series, and that is why Gohar et al were not given a chance.

I think the issue here is this, and a part solution to these problems: Pakistan need to reliably assess (younger) alternatives to the incumbents in the team. One surefire way of doing this is through A team tours. I appreciate that we are in COVID times, but the lack of A Team tour planning has been very frustrating to see from the PCB. The stagnation of talent in such a scenario is evident.

For better or worse Misbah is too set in his ways, hende his lack of lateral thinking with the selections of previous tours which could have been a good platform to have a look at the spin resources. On the other hand my team has shown a great deal of unusual dynamism in their selections, I mean we have a superior set up anyway but I genuinly welcome the youth being given a look pope, sibley or even pulling rabbits out the hat like Rashid, being flexible in modern era is important in my opinion, Misbah wil learn could be forced to learn this the hard way but I am genuinly hoping for a nice surprise from Yasir because to this day at his best he is a treat to watch and the best leg spinner in the world
 
this dude gets way more hate than he deserves
pakistan cricket fans are just ruthless. the number of test matches this guy has orchestrated for pakistan over the years
there have not been many leg spinners in human history better than yasir shah. ok, he doesnt have pedigree on quicker overseas wickets. but hes been really good on slower english wickets over the years and there were positive signs in australia last time pak went there. he is learning to bowl slower outside of the subby. in the same way nathan lyon is always trying to bowl faster in the subby
 
I think that Shadab is going to play anyway, because he’s the only guy who can bat in the Top Seven and bowl some overs.

So it comes down to this. Both of the following players are probably older than their official ages and neither is at 100% fitness. And their batting is the same.

But who is going to be more use as your fourth bowler, with a Dukes Ball in England: Yasir Shah or Mohammad Amir?

I can’t believe that anyone would consider leaving Amir to watch from the pavilion. I’d get it if he wasn’t in the country. But he’s at the ground!

In Asia I’d pick Yasir Shah. In England I’d always pick Amir.

If Amir was indeed available, I would have dropped Abbas and played him. No way keeping all eggs in four pacers basket, unless it’s really, really a typical old days English green top with wet weather predicted. In last few years, probably only Test that I could have thought of all pace attack was ENG-IND, Lord’s 2018 Test; that too with a day wash out. 450 overs are long enough to accommodate one quality spinner, even on green tops unless forecast is cloudy for significant period.

On a warm, dry weather even perfect green tops become flat by day 3-4-5 and then you need a spinner to bowl long spells against wind, so that the pacers can go for short bursts. And, if there is even a little chance of cracks by day 4, it’s elementary that you pick a spinner, preferably one that takes ball away from majority of batsmen. In this squad of 29 men brigade, Misbah couldn’t find a place for Gohar - you can curse him for that for sure.
 
This isn't fair to Shadab. Lets add a bit more context to the discussion. Just to be clear, the idea here is Shadab as a batsman at 7 who can function as the fifth bowler in a 5 men attack. This is not a direct bowling comparison to Yasir, never was.

At Lords in 2018, Shadab has 50 odd runs and got Stokes and Stonemam out, bowled 20 odd good overs in the second innings. Pretty significant contribution in a low scoring match with overcast conditions. He is not a bowler of Yasir's quality, no one ever said he was. And it isn't his role to be of that quality. Remember he was 2 runs away from being out highest scorer and that too with an innings less. Further he has clearly improved as a batsman since then.

Coming to Yasir, that was 2016. He was at his peak and had just started declining. This is 2020, his form is gone, he can't spin the ball as much if at all and his fitness is pretty poor, to put it kindly. The only place where Yasir has bowled well (averaged under 40 with the ball ars WI and UAE, nor even I. Pakistan).

The last test Shadab played was in SA, where he had four wickets (Amla, Bevuma, De Kock, Olivier) and was 47* before running out of partners. It seems like he is doing pretty good at the role he is given and he is getting better at batting.

Now finally coming to the argument that Yasir is essential to us winning overseas. I don't think there is any evidence to back it up.

In England we have played 6 tests won 3, lost 3, Yasir was part of 2 out 4 played. Seems perfectly in line to me. It's too small a sample to say that we can't win without Yasir. What's more likely is that we won half in any case. Would have drawn in 2010 too had the dressing room not been in total shambles, especially in the last game.

In any case all of his major performances are in tour in 2016 (SENA) , it's been 4 years and 4 tours since and Yasir has little to show for himself.

On Shadab getting a fifer, he might as well. In his 16 FC games, he has 6 4fers, 3 fifers and a 10fer.
 
He's one of the best young spinners in the world and the great thing is that his batting is improving significantly now. He hit a test century in Australia, that's a great achievement.
 
Yasir Shah being named in the starting eleven tomorrow morning will be a major bonus for England.
 
It's a massive shame to see Yasir's decline. He was such a gun matchwinner for us at his peak. Without him we wouldn't have drawn in England in 2016, beaten West Indies away in 2017 and kept our unbeaten UAE series run going for another 3 years after Saeed Ajmal got banned.

His actual prime years, like Zulfiqar Babar and a few others, was wasted because we had a baseball pitcher masquerading as a legal off-spinner for so many years.
 
Sooner or later the selectors are going to start looking elsewhere for a spinner.

Yasir's not been at his best in recent times and needs a good series for his own self-belief and for the selectors to still believe in him.
 
Sooner or later the selectors are going to start looking elsewhere for a spinner.

Yasir's not been at his best in recent times and needs a good series for his own self-belief and for the selectors to still believe in him.

I reckon zafar goar has more potential
 
Yasir was a quality spinner. It's a shame he didn't look after himself fitness wise and also became unmotivated to keep on improving.
 
Yasir averages 63.50 with the ball outside Asia.

Shadab averages 38.83 with the ball outside Asia.

I was pretty disappointed not to see [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]'s response down this page.
 
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Has a partner now in Shadab for 1st Test - can he deliver for Pakistan?
 
Yasir and Shadab in the same team for this test. People who say Yasir is on par with Shadab in batting ability we might find that out today. Also we would have a good oversight of their bowling powers in this test match when they bowl together.
 
I was pretty disappointed not to see [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]'s response down this page.

Junaids has a fetish for mediocre Pakistani all-rounders like Shadab and Faheem.

Yasir’s bowling average outside Asia after his first Test (Lord’s 2016) was nothing but impressive as well, but we all saw how he struggled once he played in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand.

I don’t need to explain to anyone that Shadab is an inferior bowler to Yasir, and if he bowls in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand, his record will also suffer like Yasir’s.
 
Pitch is taking spin, has some pace and bounce.

Ideal conditions for Yasir.

No excuses now.
 
With the turn on offer if Yasir can't make significant inroads then he might as well catch the next flight home ( considering travel restrictions and quarantine of course ;) )
 
Pitch is taking spin, has some pace and bounce.

Ideal conditions for Yasir.

No excuses now.

I'm not expecting much tbh, Yasir never worked hard and was done long time ago.
 
Pitch is already turning on day one. We will have the 4th innings advantage. Yasir has no excuse now.
 
Whether yasir performs or not, it doesnt matter. The guy is safe.
Pakistan does not have any other option. Kashif bhatti is a joke of a bowler, the guy isnt even fit enough to field.

Shadab isnt better than yasir. Shadab misses his line and length and he doesnt spin it that well, yasir is much better than him.
 
OK, a bold prediction (bold, because I am not sure about his fitness to bowl 65+ overs): If PAK batsmen can put 350+ (basically bat out Day 2), Yasir is going to win this Test with at least one 5for, may be even a 10For!!!!!
 
Junaids has a fetish for mediocre Pakistani all-rounders like Shadab and Faheem.

Yasir’s bowling average outside Asia after his first Test (Lord’s 2016) was nothing but impressive as well, but we all saw how he struggled once he played in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand.

I don’t need to explain to anyone that Shadab is an inferior bowler to Yasir, and if he bowls in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand, his record will also suffer like Yasir’s.

You need to explain that to me. Because they already have both bowled around the world in Tests, with these results:

1. In England and Ireland
YASIR SHAH:
19 wickets in 4 Tests, average 40.73
92 runs in 4 Tests at an average of 15.33

SHADAB KHAN:
7 wickets in 3 Tests, average 34.43
171 runs in 3 Tests at an average of 42.75

2. In Australia, New Zealand and South Africa
YASIR SHAH:
13 wickets in 8 Tests, average 96.77
275 runs in 8 Tests at an average of 21.15

SHADAB KHAN:
4 wickets in 1 Test, average 20.00
52 runs in 1 Test at an average of 52.00
 
You need to explain that to me. Because they already have both bowled around the world in Tests, with these results:

1. In England and Ireland
YASIR SHAH:
19 wickets in 4 Tests, average 40.73
92 runs in 4 Tests at an average of 15.33

SHADAB KHAN:
7 wickets in 3 Tests, average 34.43
171 runs in 3 Tests at an average of 42.75

2. In Australia, New Zealand and South Africa
YASIR SHAH:
13 wickets in 8 Tests, average 96.77
275 runs in 8 Tests at an average of 21.15

SHADAB KHAN:
4 wickets in 1 Test, average 20.00
52 runs in 1 Test at an average of 52.00

Lol, that's next level manipulation of stats. Laughable!
 
You need to explain that to me. Because they already have both bowled around the world in Tests, with these results:

1. In England and Ireland
YASIR SHAH:
19 wickets in 4 Tests, average 40.73
92 runs in 4 Tests at an average of 15.33

SHADAB KHAN:
7 wickets in 3 Tests, average 34.43
171 runs in 3 Tests at an average of 42.75

2. In Australia, New Zealand and South Africa
YASIR SHAH:
13 wickets in 8 Tests, average 96.77
275 runs in 8 Tests at an average of 21.15

SHADAB KHAN:
4 wickets in 1 Test, average 20.00
52 runs in 1 Test at an average of 52.00

:))) Typical stubborn northerner!!
 
OK, a bold prediction (bold, because I am not sure about his fitness to bowl 65+ overs): If PAK batsmen can put 350+ (basically bat out Day 2), Yasir is going to win this Test with at least one 5for, may be even a 10For!!!!!

I like this bold prediction, we don't see too many from you :yk I am interested to see if both leggies will bowl together, not sure that will be ideal for Pak, but it would certainly be a great spectacle, not seen two leggies bowl in pairs for a while
 
Yasir on to bowl for Pakistan. A good platform has been set at 37/3, so he should attack.
 
Shane Warne "Yasir Shah lacks patience. He tries to bowl too many different deliveries"

Spot on from Warne.
 
Shane Warne "Yasir Shah lacks patience. He tries to bowl too many different deliveries"

Spot on from Warne.

Another thing he said was that when a spinner comes on, he should come on to stay on - and not to be replaced quickly after bowling a few bad ones
 
Big wicket for Shah ji.

Hopefully the confidence boost he needed.
 
Need to see more of this line and length:

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i think his contribution in this innings is already done.

Bowling crap
 
Misbah speaking at presser:

“Overall when you are playing Test Cricket after a long time, there is definitely pressure but he got the crucial wicket of Joe Root, and the way he was bowling in practice matches and today, he has a big role to play for Pakistan in this series; As the game progresses he will play a bigger role, and he will be a crucial bowler in this game.”
 
Towards the end he looked very dangerous but it's the same issue with him, he's not consistent enough with his line & length. Looking at how the pitch has behaved, he will
have to play a crucial role if Pak are to win this game
 
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