[VIDEOS] "Azhar Ali isn't good enough"

[topspin]

Think this is a bit OTT.

Pakistan doesn't exactly have the most amazing track record in producing legendary batsmen like India and Australia have but even then it's a stretch to suggest Azhar Ali is one of Pakistan's "finest test top order batters ever produced".

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Think this is a bit OTT.

It's an opinion. You don't have to agree with it.

 

[Hectic]

Good riddance. A painfully average cricketer who overstayed his welcome for far too long.

The worrying part is that despite overstaying his welcome for so long, he somehow still managed to jump before he was pushed. This sums up how rotten the management and selectors are.

 

[James]

It's an opinion. You don't have to agree with it.

What is the evidence behind this opinion? Observable, statistical, testimonial, something else? Anyone can post an opinion about anything they like, but its not going to stand up to much or go very far if there is limited/no evidence.

 

[alone1213]

I m really happy i never have to see him again.

He is the mediocrity misbah left behind. It was still misbah effect in the team. He played way too many tests. He should have been kicked out long time ago.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What is the evidence behind this opinion? Observable, statistical, testimonial, something else? Anyone can post an opinion about anything they like, but its not going to stand up to much or go very far if there is limited/no evidence.

I'm glad you asked. It's based on observable statistical data. i.e. his performances for Pakistan in the last decade plus. Stuff like him being the:

- 5th highest run-scorer for Pakistan in Tests.
- Highest run-scorer for Pakistan while batting in Top 3.
- First Pakistani batter to hit two double tons in a year.
- First Pakistani batter to hit a double ton in Australia.
- Second highest run-scorer in a calendar year for Pakistan.
- First overseas opener to hit a double ton at the MCG.
- One of only four Pakistani triple centurions.
- One of only five Pakistani batters with 7k test runs.


You can this limited/no evidence. But that in itself would be an opinion. Even if you may try to frame it as fact.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Highlight of the year for me seeing this loser come out and bat in his final inns and getting dismissed like the tail ender that he is. People harped on about how he averaged 40 for last few years with bat, facts are he basically was scoring in most series 1 × 50+ score a series and failing rest of time, no real match winning contributions against decent test sides. Waste of space in batting line up, good riddance.

The fact the players like hafeez, S malic and Azhar have been persisted with for so long in last 10-15 years shows how pathetic team selection has been. Seems like Shan Masood might be the next one to be persisted with in same way.

 

[Zaz]

I'm glad you asked. It's based on observable statistical data. i.e. his performances for Pakistan in the last decade plus. Stuff like him being the:

- 5th highest run-scorer for Pakistan in Tests.
- Highest run-scorer for Pakistan while batting in Top 3.
- First Pakistani batter to hit two double tons in a year.
- First Pakistani batter to hit a double ton in Australia.
- Second highest run-scorer in a calendar year for Pakistan.
- First overseas opener to hit a double ton at the MCG.
- One of only four Pakistani triple centurions.
- One of only five Pakistani batters with 7k test runs.


You can this limited/no evidence. But that in itself would be an opinion. Even if you may try to frame it as fact.

Most of these records are just due to the fact he played for so long which other havent had the good fortunate for various reasons over the years

Anybody whos watched him live over the years would tell you hes was a good batsman rather than a great

Hes certainly wouldnt make it in the top 10 of pakistani batsmen for me

Ive named below 15 better test batsmen than azhar

Younis Khan
Javed Miandad
Inzamam
Mohd Yousuf
Saleem Malik
Misbah Ul Haq
Zaheer Abbas
Saeed Anwar
Majid Khan
Hanif Mohammed
Babar Azam
Asif Iqbal
Ijaz Ahmed
Mushtaq Mohammed
Mohsin Khan

 

[topspin]

I'm glad you asked. It's based on observable statistical data. i.e. his performances for Pakistan in the last decade plus. Stuff like him being the:

- 5th highest run-scorer for Pakistan in Tests.
- Highest run-scorer for Pakistan while batting in Top 3.
- First Pakistani batter to hit two double tons in a year.
- First Pakistani batter to hit a double ton in Australia.
- Second highest run-scorer in a calendar year for Pakistan.
- First overseas opener to hit a double ton at the MCG.
- One of only four Pakistani triple centurions.
- One of only five Pakistani batters with 7k test runs.


You can this limited/no evidence. But that in itself would be an opinion. Even if you may try to frame it as fact.

What you've posted here is a list of fun facts which were mostly achieved as a result of him prolonging his career when he should've really been booted out of the side around 4-5 years ago.

Like Zaz, I can name at least 12 better Pakistani batsmen which isn't hard to name even in the slightest because Azhar Ali had a mediocre record away from home (outside UAE and Pakistan), where he averaged 36 at a strike rate of just 41.

In SENA, he was a flop. Barring Australia, he averaged below 35 in England, New Zealand and South Africa. Other than the 2016/17 tour down under, he failed in all the other away SENA series.

The lack of evidence from your post suggests to me it's more a case of "If my man Misbah rates him so will I".

 

[Kroll]

What you've posted here is a list of fun facts which were mostly achieved as a result of him prolonging his career when he should've really been booted out of the side around 4-5 years ago.

Like Zaz, I can name at least 12 better Pakistani batsmen which isn't hard to name even in the slightest because Azhar Ali had a mediocre record away from home (outside UAE and Pakistan), where he averaged 36 at a strike rate of just 41.

In SENA, he was a flop. Barring Australia, he averaged below 35 in England, New Zealand and South Africa. Other than the 2016/17 tour down under, he failed in all the other away SENA series.

The lack of evidence from your post suggests to me it's more a case of "If my man Misbah rates him so will I".

The sad thing is because guys from the Misbah era like Azhar, Asad Shafiq, Fawad Alam, Yasir that had expired years ago were getting taken on holidays all around the world, it's had a devastating knock on effect for the current team's predicament.

All these useless players were accommodated to fill a friends eleven whilst players that could have been developed were largely overlooked.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Most of these records are just due to the fact he played for so long which other havent had the good fortunate for various reasons over the years

Anybody whos watched him live over the years would tell you hes was a good batsman rather than a great

Hes certainly wouldnt make it in the top 10 of pakistani batsmen for me

Ive named below 15 better test batsmen than azhar

Younis Khan
Javed Miandad
Inzamam
Mohd Yousuf
Saleem Malik
Misbah Ul Haq
Zaheer Abbas
Saeed Anwar
Majid Khan
Hanif Mohammed
Babar Azam
Asif Iqbal
Ijaz Ahmed
Mushtaq Mohammed
Mohsin Khan

Some of the names you mentioned here were better batters than Azhar Ali. Some were not and you can pretend to act like they were...won't make it so. But even some of the names that were better players than Azhar did not achieve some of the things he achieved. 7k test runs being just one of those things. And that again, goes back to my point that despite NOT being naturally gifted or talented, Azhar punched above his weight achieved alot.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

What you've posted here is a list of fun facts which were mostly achieved as a result of him prolonging his career when he should've really been booted out of the side around 4-5 years ago.

Like Zaz, I can name at least 12 better Pakistani batsmen which isn't hard to name even in the slightest because Azhar Ali had a mediocre record away from home (outside UAE and Pakistan), where he averaged 36 at a strike rate of just 41.

In SENA, he was a flop. Barring Australia, he averaged below 35 in England, New Zealand and South Africa. Other than the 2016/17 tour down under, he failed in all the other away SENA series.

The lack of evidence from your post suggests to me it's more a case of "If my man Misbah rates him so will I".

I don't know why you keep quoting my replies when I've made it clear to you, that you lost any and all credibility in my eyes after the ill-fated comments you made on the Pakistan v Zimbabwe Match Discussion Thread.

 

[topspin]

I don't know why you keep quoting my replies when I've made it clear to you, that you lost any and all credibility in my eyes after the ill-fated comments you made on the Pakistan v Zimbabwe Match Discussion Thread.

I wouldn't be throwing that word after coming up with this thread and with your hyperbole earlier today where you claimed Azhar Ali is one of the finest top order batsmen produced from Pakistan.

Perhaps you could continue the free supply of entertainment for us and do a "Misbah the Coach isn't good enough"?

 

[shamaan]

Azhar punched above his weight but he's not a pakistan great.

Miandad
Younis
Inzamam
Yousuf

 

[topspin]

The sad thing is because guys from the Misbah era like Azhar, Asad Shafiq, Fawad Alam, Yasir that had expired years ago were getting taken on holidays all around the world, it's had a devastating knock on effect for the current team's predicament.

All these useless players were accommodated to fill a friends eleven whilst players that could have been developed were largely overlooked.

Indeed, the concept of succession planning was very alien to Misbah. I've always maintained that he should have retired from international cricket in 2013 following the embarrassment the team had endured in the Zimbabwe series, whitewash in South Africa and the CT in England.

This was the time to give him the axe but instead we let him destroy Pakistan cricket for a further 4 years as captain and batsman then he came back to haunt us again after the 2019 World Cup as coach and selector.

The end result is Pakistan are 10 years behind because of his incompetence and low cricketing IQ.

 

[Zaz]

Azhar Ali Stats


From Debut to Sept 2017

60 tests, 4968 runs, avge of 46.86, 14 test tons


Since Sept 2017

37 test, 2174 runs, avge of 34.50, 5 test tons

 

[Saj]

Azhar Ali Stats


From Debut to Sept 2017

60 tests, 4968 runs, avge of 46.86, 14 test tons


Since Sept 2017

37 test, 2174 runs, avge of 34.50, 5 test tons

Indeed a steady decline in the latter stages of his career with the occasional big score.

 

[Savak]

Azhar Ali Stats


From Debut to Sept 2017

60 tests, 4968 runs, avge of 46.86, 14 test tons


Since Sept 2017

37 test, 2174 runs, avge of 34.50, 5 test tons

He went to the UK for treatment on his knee around October 2017. It was around the start of 2018 in NZ when i noticed he had trouble running after the ball in the outfield. His footwork was badly affected as well. Any other country he would have been told to move on but in Pakistan we like giving charity to players based on past performances.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Azhar Ali Stats


From Debut to Sept 2017

60 tests, 4968 runs, avge of 46.86, 14 test tons


Since Sept 2017

37 test, 2174 runs, avge of 34.50, 5 test tons

He was brilliant till MisYou were there. But afterwards, he just couldn't step up as the senior batter and go one level up. Instead he started receding. Firstly, he started becoming hesitant to open (which suited him the most), then his body started getting older. He was simply not as high prized wicket he should have become once Younis retired.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

There was a lot to like about Azhar when he debuted. The resilience, the patience, and punching above his weight were extremely good traits. He was extremely consistent earlier on in his career. He scored a lot fifties earlier on in his career. Then matured and started converting them after a few years. Just when it looked like, he was all set to become a permanent opener for us, he buckled under the pressure, and he buckled under very hard. He was great when he wasn't the prized wicket for the opposition and he exploited it well. But once that cushion (MisYou) went away, he simply couldn't stand up. The consistent position changes, failure to close out the matches (vs SL 1st test 2017, vs NZ 1st test 2018 etc) just kept piling up the pressure on him.

For last 2-3 years, he's been a shadow of the player he used to be. Instead of that 141 in England, there hasn't really been a trademark Azhar Ali knock that we saw from 2010-17. Should have retired a year ago alongside Asad Shafiq.

He was a good servant of Pak Cricket. Not the best definitely, but did the most he could with the limited ability he had. But time comes for everyone.

 

[Saj]

He was brilliant till MisYou were there. But afterwards, he just couldn't step up as the senior batter and go one level up. Instead he started receding. Firstly, he started becoming hesitant to open (which suited him the most), then his body started getting older. He was simply not as high prized wicket he should have become once Younis retired.

Good point.

He was a different player with Misbah and Younis around to help him.

 

[TheSultan]

I wish people stop talking about Younis and little misbi as a duo.

Younis was a bonafide great. Misbah was no different to the likes of Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq etc. The presence of Younis raised everyone’s game. I’m pretty sure if Misbah was in the same position as Azhar without Younis he would fare similar.

But this is where our think tank got it wrong. It was plainly obvious neither Azhar or Asad were ever going to take up the mantle that younis left behind. Should have been forward planning to bring some others along.

Azhar was always only there as a support act. I don’t know why people wanted him to become some sort of legend. These type of players should have been thrown out when they started regressing. In Azhar’s case around 2018.

All the disrespect he gets now may seem unfair, but he should have carved out his own respect and reputation. If he wanted to be respected he should have retired 3-4 years ago. If he wanted to cling on, then he can have no complaints about people disrespecting him.

 

[shamaan]

I wish people stop talking about Younis and little misbi as a duo.

Younis was a bonafide great. Misbah was no different to the likes of Azhar Ali, Asad Shafiq etc. The presence of Younis raised everyone’s game. I’m pretty sure if Misbah was in the same position as Azhar without Younis he would fare similar.

But this is where our think tank got it wrong. It was plainly obvious neither Azhar or Asad were ever going to take up the mantle that younis left behind. Should have been forward planning to bring some others along.

Azhar was always only there as a support act. I don’t know why people wanted him to become some sort of legend. These type of players should have been thrown out when they started regressing. In Azhar’s case around 2018.

All the disrespect he gets now may seem unfair, but he should have carved out his own respect and reputation. If he wanted to be respected he should have retired 3-4 years ago. If he wanted to cling on, then he can have no complaints about people disrespecting him.

Younis will proberly get into world test xi in asain conditions.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

I wouldn't be throwing that word after coming up with this thread and with your hyperbole earlier today where you claimed Azhar Ali is one of the finest top order batsmen produced from Pakistan.

Perhaps you could continue the free supply of entertainment for us and do a "Misbah the Coach isn't good enough"?

Yup and I backed it up with facts. Unlike you, who made some deeply ill-fated comments that he has since gone to regret deeply.