[VIDEOS] Shan Masood's average watch - when will he improve his stats?

[topspin]

I'll explain why I don't want him in.

His last 2 dismissals were unforgivable for a test batsman. You cannot just push juicy deliveries to the fielder and gift your wicket, that shows you have learned nothing.

Second thing is that he's already 30 and there is young openers knocking at the door for selection, like Aslam and Imran Butt. We should invest in them so they can develop and offer more years at the top

Point well made about his last two dismissals. I acknowledge this is a valid criticism and it's time for him to kick on and convert those 50s to 100s.

As mentioned in my last post, I don't believe Sami Aslam is 24. I'm not a big fan of him anyway because he lacks the range of shots to score at a reasonable rate. There's a reason why his strike rate in his only stint for Pakistan test cricket is below 40.

As for Imran Butt, I don't know much about him to be honest, but have noticed his name has come up on here a few times of late because he has been doing well.

We can agree that Abid Ali does to be given a proper run following his successful debut, but as [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] said even if Shan Masood is inferior to the best opener in the domestic circuit, we need to ditch Azhar Ali first before we consider Shan's place in the side.

I don't think Shan Masood is by any means a long-term option but I think he has 4-5 years left in him. If he can average 35+ in 3 of the next 4 years or 4 of the next 5 years, then I can safely say he's been a worthwhile short to medium term investment.

 

[Mirpur express]

He is not the biggest problem in the team but failure to kick on from decent starts means he has to sit out & let Azhar open till he gets dropped(hopefully soon)

 

[topspin]

I guess you missed reading the part when I said that even minnow teams and associate teams atleast rotate a non performing player to improve themselves so just by saying Pakistan is a minnow Shan place cant be justified.

Also you havent answered the question; when was the last time it has happened in test cricket that a 30 year old opener averaging 27 after 18 matches was persisted with?

Sami Aslam still averages more than Shan in tests and averages more in FC as well. You are talking about shot range while backing Shan Masood? What an irony it is.

No one will know if Imran Butt, Sami Aslam are superior if they arent given as many opportunities and that is why I am in favor of rotating players who couldn't produce impact at test level. How can you say Imran Butt and Sami Aslam are not superior to Shan when they both average more in FC.

Sami Aslam scored two 50s in two innings of his first match in Eng, it isnt like he doesnt know how to hold a bat in overseas conditions. I dont need to know from anybody about age fudging, if anybody has proaf he can enlighten the whole forum and if somebody doesnt then no point in blind guessing and assumptions.

I addressed your question in the first paragraph of my response, so perhaps you should answer mine which I asked as follows:

Tell me when was the last time, a Pakistani test opener managed to average 35+ (let alone 38-39) on away test tours of Australia and South Africa over a period of 12-18 months?

Whilst I acknowledge that Shan Masood used to be a strokeless wonder, I think you need to cast your mind back to the SA tour, where he produced some of the most delightful offside and leg side back foot strokes.

You can rotate players like musical chairs if you want too but I'd prefer some a degree of stability in this team.

Yes Sami Aslam scored 2 x 50s on the flattest Edgbaston wicket I've ever seen during my 20 years of watching the sport. Perhaps you could kindly remind us his average in Australia?

 

[Titan24]

I addressed your question in the first paragraph of my response, so perhaps you should answer mine which I asked as follows:

Tell me when was the last time, a Pakistani test opener managed to average 35+ (let alone 38-39) on away test tours of Australia and South Africa over a period of 12-18 months?

Whilst I acknowledge that Shan Masood used to be a strokeless wonder, I think you need to cast your mind back to the SA tour, where he produced some of the most delightful offside and leg side back foot strokes.

You can rotate players like musical chairs if you want too but I'd prefer some a degree of stability in this team.

Yes Sami Aslam scored 2 x 50s on the flattest Edgbaston wicket I've ever seen during my 20 years of watching the sport. Perhaps you could kindly remind us his average in Australia?

Forget the greats, the Azhar Ali averaged 81 in 2016-17 in Aus and scored 400+ runs in 3 matches as an opener. Shan has played 5 matches in Aus and SA and has scored less runs combined.

Whats the fascination with overseas tours anyways? Does the home tests dont count as test cricket? Maybe not in this case because Shan Masood averages less than 20 after 9 matches in UAE and Pak.

I am all in on stability but players with the most potential should be the ones preferred with. Is Shan Masood the best? I doubt and he hasnt proved that himself as well.

So Shan Masood is much more improved player while Sami Alsam in 2 years havent imrpoved a little bit? How do you know that? Nobody would have known if Shan Masood has somewhat improved if he wasnt selected.

 

[Hawkeye]

Forget the greats, the Azhar Ali averaged 81 in 2016-17 in Aus and scored 400+ runs in 3 matches as an opener. Shan has played 5 matches in Aus and SA and has scored less runs combined.

Whats the fascination with overseas tours anyways? Does the home tests dont count as test cricket? Maybe not in this case because Shan Masood averages less than 20 after 9 matches in UAE and Pak.

I am all in on stability but players with the most potential should be the ones preferred with. Is Shan Masood the best? I doubt and he hasnt proved that himself as well.

So Shan Masood is much more improved player while Sami Alsam in 2 years havent imrpoved a little bit? How do you know that? Nobody would have known if Shan Masood has somewhat improved if he wasnt selected.

Damn.

It's amazing to see mediocrities like Shan get support from certain quarters. How insecure are we.

Even minnow teams won't be satisfied with such an opener whose ceiling is an average of 26-30. That's ceiling at the age of 30+, his bad days will be even worse.

Forget centuries, guy can't even score 50s.

Openers who are young and more talented knocking on the doors. He'll be gone soon hopefully.

 

[The_Odd_One]

I have never seen so much hoopla over a batsman averaging in 30s in a couple of series. One of them was even played on belters when the opposition batted only once in each match.

 

[Junaids]

Damn.

It's amazing to see mediocrities like Shan get support from certain quarters. How insecure are we.

Even minnow teams won't be satisfied with such an opener whose ceiling is an average of 26-30. That's ceiling at the age of 30+, his bad days will be even worse.

Forget centuries, guy can't even score 50s.

Openers who are young and more talented knocking on the doors. He'll be gone soon hopefully.

You’re missing the point.

Shan Masood is deeply average. I fully accept that

But the good version of Azhar Ali is gone forever. Shan Masood is already 6 runs per innings better than Azhar, and 30+ runs better outside Asia.

And every day older that Azhar gets, he falls further and further behind Shan Masood.

It’s as if Wasim Akram (aged 53) and Wahab Riaz (aged 33) were both in Pakistan’s team at Rawalpindi.

Yes, Wasim Akram had a more illustrious past. But for the Karachi Test in 2019 you are more likely to get a performance out of Wahab Riaz.

The Number One, Two and Three Priority is to get rid of Azhar Ali from the Test team. He’s finished, and the most dangerous thing of all would be if he scored some runs at home against a weak attack and you ended up stuck with him for longer.

There should rightly be question marks beside the names of Haris Sohail and Shan Masood. But they should both be in the team until Azhar has been retired.

 

[coy0607]

You’re missing the point.

Shan Masood is deeply average. I fully accept that

But the good version of Azhar Ali is gone forever. Shan Masood is already 6 runs per innings better than Azhar, and 30+ runs better outside Asia.

And every day older that Azhar gets, he falls further and further behind Shan Masood.

It’s as if Wasim Akram (aged 53) and Wahab Riaz (aged 33) were both in Pakistan’s team at Rawalpindi.

Yes, Wasim Akram had a more illustrious past. But for the Karachi Test in 2019 you are more likely to get a performance out of Wahab Riaz.

The Number One, Two and Three Priority is to get rid of Azhar Ali from the Test team. He’s finished, and the most dangerous thing of all would be if he scored some runs at home against a weak attack and you ended up stuck with him for longer.

There should rightly be question marks beside the names of Haris Sohail and Shan Masood. But they should both be in the team until Azhar has been retired.

That doesn't make sense. Azhar is horrendous, but that shouldn't affect how we think about Shan, who is equally bad.

They both need to be out of the team ASAP. One being better or worse, or younger or older, etc, should make no difference. This is Pakistan cricket where you have an entire domestic system available to you for replacements, not some PSL team that is restricted to 15-18 players so you're stuck with what you have.

 

[topspin]

Forget the greats, the Azhar Ali averaged 81 in 2016-17 in Aus and scored 400+ runs in 3 matches as an opener. Shan has played 5 matches in Aus and SA and has scored less runs combined.

Whats the fascination with overseas tours anyways? Does the home tests dont count as test cricket? Maybe not in this case because Shan Masood averages less than 20 after 9 matches in UAE and Pak.

I am all in on stability but players with the most potential should be the ones preferred with. Is Shan Masood the best? I doubt and he hasnt proved that himself as well.

So Shan Masood is much more improved player while Sami Alsam in 2 years havent imrpoved a little bit? How do you know that? Nobody would have known if Shan Masood has somewhat improved if he wasnt selected.

You're actually deflecting from my question actually. Azhar Ali had one good tour of Australia but out of the four away trips he's had to Australia and South Africa (combined), he failed in the other three.

My "fascination" is specifically in respect of performances in Australia and South Africa because these are the most alien conditions for Pakistani batsman to contend with. If you can score runs here, you should succeed in most other places including home wickets, whether it be in Pakistan or UAE.

The fact that you have to bring up Shan Masood's average in UAE, when I have already covered this, having explicitly mentioned that "this isn't a logical way to assess his value to the team at present". I've debunked this angle already with the Babar v Misbah analogy.

I agree with your very last sentence. You make a very valid point but I should add another reason as to why I can never be sold on Sami Aslam. For me he's far too timid and given his meek personality, I cannot envisage him showing any authority or dominance (as such) against the opposition bowling attacks. Unfortunately, this is something you cannot change.

This is why I also disagree with on Amir Yamin, whilst he might be not a million miles away from CDG on a technical level, he doesn't have the fearless streak and self-belief like the Kiwi has to make an impact at international level.

 

[topspin]

Damn.

It's amazing to see mediocrities like Shan get support from certain quarters. How insecure are we.

Even minnow teams won't be satisfied with such an opener whose ceiling is an average of 26-30. That's ceiling at the age of 30+, his bad days will be even worse.

Forget centuries, guy can't even score 50s.

Openers who are young and more talented knocking on the doors. He'll be gone soon hopefully.

Lol this is exactly why you hold no credibility on PP. Pedalling lies is your specialist area, so maybe you will become a B grade journalist one day

 

[Junaids]

That doesn't make sense. Azhar is horrendous, but that shouldn't affect how we think about Shan, who is equally bad.

They are not "equally bad".

The geriatric version of Azhar Ali is really poor, and is terrible outside Asia.

Shan Masood is average.

Average and poor are not the same thing. Lets look at the 6 Test matches that Pakistan has played in the last year. Here are their innings side by side.

SHAN MASOOD versus AZHAR ALI, 17 December 2018 - 16 December 2019
10 & 65 v 36 & 0
44 & 61 v 2 & 6
2 & 37 v 0 & 15
27 & 42 v 39 & 5
19 & 68 v 9 & 9
0 & dnb v 36


Shan Masood: 6 Tests - 384 runs @ 34.90
Azhar Ali: 6 Tests - 157 runs @ 14.27

 

[HGhazanfar]

Azhar, Imam and Shaan need to be dropped.

Need to go with Abid and Sami Aslam as openers, Imran Butt as backup.

Lineup should be

Abid Ali
Sami Aslam
Babar Azam C
Asad Shafiq
Fawad Alam
M Rizwan WK
Ammad Butt
Yasir Shah
Zafar Gohar
Naseem Shah
Shaheen Afridi

Backup Pacers
M Abbas
Shinwari
Sameen Gul

Play a pacer in place of Yasir Shah outside the subcontinent

 

[topspin]

They are not "equally bad".

The geriatric version of Azhar Ali is really poor, and is terrible outside Asia.

Shan Masood is average.

Average and poor are not the same thing. Lets look at the 6 Test matches that Pakistan has played in the last year. Here are their innings side by side.

SHAN MASOOD versus AZHAR ALI, 17 December 2018 - 16 December 2019
10 & 65 v 36 & 0
44 & 61 v 2 & 6
2 & 37 v 0 & 15
27 & 42 v 39 & 5
19 & 68 v 9 & 9
0 & dnb v 36


Shan Masood: 6 Tests - 384 runs @ 34.90
Azhar Ali: 6 Tests - 157 runs @ 14.27

Job well done here.

As usual, its the Misbah fan brigade targeting Shan because Azhar Ali is their hero's golden boy.

 

[Titan24]

You're actually deflecting from my question actually. Azhar Ali had one good tour of Australia but out of the four away trips he's had to Australia and South Africa (combined), he failed in the other three.

My "fascination" is specifically in respect of performances in Australia and South Africa because these are the most alien conditions for Pakistani batsman to contend with. If you can score runs here, you should succeed in most other places including home wickets, whether it be in Pakistan or UAE.

The fact that you have to bring up Shan Masood's average in UAE, when I have already covered this, having explicitly mentioned that "this isn't a logical way to assess his value to the team at present". I've debunked this angle already with the Babar v Misbah analogy.

I agree with your very last sentence. You make a very valid point but I should add another reason as to why I can never be sold on Sami Aslam. For me he's far too timid and given his meek personality, I cannot envisage him showing any authority or dominance (as such) against the opposition bowling attacks. Unfortunately, this is something you cannot change.

This is why I also disagree with on Amir Yamin, whilst he might be not a million miles away from CDG on a technical level, he doesn't have the fearless streak and self-belief like the Kiwi has to make an impact at international level.

Deflecting? How? Azhar played 3 matches in 2016-17 and you are talking about Shan's 5 matches at an avg of 38 odd vs Azhar's 80+.

Any decent bastman is supposed to be dominating at home atleast but Shan's average of under 20 clearly manifests otherwise even if you include so called Shan Masood V2. Averaging in 30s in Aus and SA isnt exactly setting the world on fire either. He averages 17 in Eng in 2 matches he played, he averages 15 in WI in one match he played. Why isnt his performances for Pak home tests should be considered? Misbah and Babar is not a valid analogy, Shan Masood is nowhere near the caliber.

He struggles against spin as well as against swing which one can easily see from his dismissals in UAE and Eng. I am not sure if players should be selected as bouncy conditions specialist and even in that he wasnt able to produce a single big innings, saying that others struggled more cant counter the fact that others atleast perform at home and in other conditions.

Regarding Sami Aslam being a meek one, many posters here were calling Babar a meek personality as well not too long ago. Shan Masood other than being well groomed isnt exactly like KP, Viv Richards, Kohli or Zaheer Abbas on the field. His SR is also 43 in tests which isnt much different from Sami Aslam.

Anyways, lets agree to disagree. I will be really happy if Shan score big runs soon i.e if he is continued to be selected even though I dont understand the continued persistence with him and looks like you and Misbah are on the same page here.

You have touched CDG as well here. Lol. As I have said many times before, Pakistan's problem is poor player development and that is where teams like NZ, Aus stand out. CDG dominates because he has enough confidence transferred from the management along with the preparation and handwork he has and management put in behind the scenes in last 2 years. When you are always afraid of being dropped and arent pushed hard enough to achieve certain standards and be prepared, you are never gonna be confident on the field.

 

[Junaids]

They are not "equally bad".

The geriatric version of Azhar Ali is really poor, and is terrible outside Asia.

Shan Masood is average.

Average and poor are not the same thing. Lets look at the 6 Test matches that Pakistan has played in the last year. Here are their innings side by side.

SHAN MASOOD versus AZHAR ALI, 17 December 2018 - 16 December 2019
10 & 65 v 36 & 0
44 & 61 v 2 & 6
2 & 37 v 0 & 15
27 & 42 v 39 & 5
19 & 68 v 9 & 9
0 & dnb v 36


Shan Masood: 6 Tests - 384 runs @ 34.90
Azhar Ali: 6 Tests - 157 runs @ 14.27

Top order batsmen need to put fifty partnerships together.

Any innings in which they are dismissed for less than 20 represents a serious failure.

In the last year:

SHAN MASOOD reached 20 in 7 out of 11 innings.

AZHAR ALI reached 20 in 3 out of 11 innings.

Azhar Ali needs to go, not Shan Masood, and Azhar’s removal is urgent and desperately important.

 

[Titan24]

Top order batsmen need to put fifty partnerships together.

Any innings in which they are dismissed for less than 20 represents a serious failure.

In the last year:

SHAN MASOOD reached 20 in 7 out of 11 innings.

AZHAR ALI reached 20 in 3 out of 11 innings.

Azhar Ali needs to go, not Shan Masood, and Azhar’s removal is urgent and desperately important.

Why wasnt Faf Duplesis who is 35 now dropped after 2018 where he averaged 24 in 10 tests. There are countless examples of other proven performers as well to be sicked with through poor form or twilight of their career.

Yes he needs to be accountable for his performance but what has Shan Masood has really achieved for Pakistan that requires him to remain in the team. How exactly is poor performance of Azhar Ali warrants persistence with Shan Masood, I am yet to understand the relationship between these two.

In test cricket scoring 20 or more in 7 out of 11 innings and not converting it is rather criminal in comparison to someone who is struggling to get starts. An opener who cant convert starts other than on one occasion out of 18 tests and you are mentioning how many times he got the starts? It isnt exactly a positive.

 

[Junaids]

Why wasnt Faf Duplesis who is 35 now dropped after 2018 where he averaged 24 in 10 tests. There are countless examples of other proven performers as well to be sicked with through poor form or twilight of their career.

Yes he needs to be accountable for his performance but what has Shan Masood has really achieved for Pakistan that requires him to remain in the team. How exactly is poor performance of Azhar Ali warrants persistence with Shan Masood, I am yet to understand the relationship between these two.

In test cricket scoring 20 or more in 7 out of 11 innings and not converting it is rather criminal in comparison to someone who is struggling to get starts. An opener who cant convert starts other than on one occasion out of 18 tests and you are mentioning how many times he got the starts? It isnt exactly a positive.

Ok, maybe FAF averaged 24 in 2018.

Azhar Ali averages 13.44 in 2019. That wouldn’t be acceptable in a wicketkeeper, let alone a batsman in the top three of the order.

This year Azhar Ali averages 13.44 while Shan Masood averages 33.33.

How hard is it to work out which one to drop?

 

[Junaids]

I didn’t go far enough in replying to [MENTION=142432]Titan24[/MENTION] in my last post.

There are two candidates for the Pakistan captaincy.

Candidate A is about to have his 35th birthday, averages 13.44 with the bat this year and has the leadership qualities of a paper bag. And his batting was already in decline last year, when he averaged 30.41, but has deteriorated fast as he ages.

Candidate B is 30 years old, has universally recognised leadership skills and is a famously hard trainer. He averages 33.33 this year and averaged 42.00 last year.

You can argue that one of these should be dropped forever and that one should be the short-term stopgap skipper.

But if anyone thinks that Azhar Ali is the one who should be captain they probably need to start paying attention to the facts.

 

[Titan24]

Ok, maybe FAF averaged 24 in 2018.

Azhar Ali averages 13.44 in 2019. That wouldn’t be acceptable in a wicketkeeper, let alone a batsman in the top three of the order.

This year Azhar Ali averages 13.44 while Shan Masood averages 33.33.

How hard is it to work out which one to drop?

Both are playing poorly but Azhar is the captain at the moment so its not as straightforward as this and he in his prime atleast delivered the goods so there is some associated but Shan doesnt have much to show throughout his career. He gets starts and wastes them, there is a reason he averages 35 in FC cricket.

Again what exactly is the relation between Shan and Azhar, why do we need to compare both to prove Shan's brilliance or mediocrity. In any other team Shan would have been a long goner as if 33 average in a year by comparing him with someone averaging 13 this year is the showpiece of his career.

Still dont understand the hype surrounding Shan, you yourself have said that he is average then why not try Sami Aslam or somebody else. Whats the fascination with mediocrity?

 

[Titan24]

I didn’t go far enough in replying to [MENTION=142432]Titan24[/MENTION] in my last post.

There are two candidates for the Pakistan captaincy.

Candidate A is about to have his 35th birthday, averages 13.44 with the bat this year and has the leadership qualities of a paper bag. And his batting was already in decline last year, when he averaged 30.41, but has deteriorated fast as he ages.

Candidate B is 30 years old, has universally recognised leadership skills and is a famously hard trainer. He averages 33.33 this year and averaged 42.00 last year.

You can argue that one of these should be dropped forever and that one should be the short-term stopgap skipper.

But if anyone thinks that Azhar Ali is the one who should be captain they probably need to start paying attention to the facts.

So it was all about the captaincy to start with, I would be lying if I say I didnt know.

Yes Shan Masood has a good mind and wont be a bad captain at all and I personally wouldnt have mind seeing him as captain if he would have been performing but is he gonna be good enough to inspire the team without performing? I am not sure. Still making a guy who averages 27 in test cricket would be a tough call to make and keeping in mind you cant drop the skipper as well if he doesnt improve. Would be a lot of pressure on him as well as PCB as he will not only will have to bring his career back on track but also will handle the team as well.

 

[topspin]

Deflecting? How? Azhar played 3 matches in 2016-17 and you are talking about Shan's 5 matches at an avg of 38 odd vs Azhar's 80+.

Any decent bastman is supposed to be dominating at home atleast but Shan's average of under 20 clearly manifests otherwise even if you include so called Shan Masood V2. Averaging in 30s in Aus and SA isnt exactly setting the world on fire either. He averages 17 in Eng in 2 matches he played, he averages 15 in WI in one match he played. Why isnt his performances for Pak home tests should be considered? Misbah and Babar is not a valid analogy, Shan Masood is nowhere near the caliber.

He struggles against spin as well as against swing which one can easily see from his dismissals in UAE and Eng. I am not sure if players should be selected as bouncy conditions specialist and even in that he wasnt able to produce a single big innings, saying that others struggled more cant counter the fact that others atleast perform at home and in other conditions.

Regarding Sami Aslam being a meek one, many posters here were calling Babar a meek personality as well not too long ago. Shan Masood other than being well groomed isnt exactly like KP, Viv Richards, Kohli or Zaheer Abbas on the field. His SR is also 43 in tests which isnt much different from Sami Aslam.

Anyways, lets agree to disagree. I will be really happy if Shan score big runs soon i.e if he is continued to be selected even though I dont understand the continued persistence with him and looks like you and Misbah are on the same page here.

You have touched CDG as well here. Lol. As I have said many times before, Pakistan's problem is poor player development and that is where teams like NZ, Aus stand out. CDG dominates because he has enough confidence transferred from the management along with the preparation and handwork he has and management put in behind the scenes in last 2 years. When you are always afraid of being dropped and arent pushed hard enough to achieve certain standards and be prepared, you are never gonna be confident on the field.

Maybe I could have worded it better, I'm asking which Pakistani opener has managed to average 35+ both in Australia and South Africa as well (not in aggregate!) in the same season i.e. over a 12 - 18 month period, as the away tours of both countries are scheduled not too far apart.

If I'm not mistaken I don't remember any Pakistani batsman being able to accomplish this.

I notice how you misrepresent Shan's contributions in Australia and South Africa by stating his average in the "30s", when he averaged no less than 38 during those tours, so perhaps quoting "near 40" would be a more appropriate and a less misleading figure to go by. This just goes to show how blatantly obvious your preformed bias against him really is.

I don't know why you keep bringing up his pre-2019 form because it holds no relevance to current affairs, but I find it amusing how desperate you are to put him down. Reminds me of that time in the beginning of the year, when you were doing the same to Mickey. I will never forget the ex-player who you vouched for as his replacement Don't worry the secret is safe with me (for now).

Again you post another irrelevant stat in this discussion, concerning his SR of 43 being similar to Sami Aslam's 39. I'll tell you what is relevant though, Shan Masood has a SR of 48 for 2019, which is significantly higher than 39.

Also it would be pertinent to highlight Sami Aslam's stats in Australia, as this was conveniently ignored by you.

DRUM ROLL

Average of 12.00 at a SR of 25.53

 

[Titan24]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] just to add he might as well has been the captain by now or soon if only he would have been doing decently with the bat, had around 3 centuries by now and averaging 35+ atleast. I would have liked this proposition as well considering what he can bring to to leadership role however his struggles have made it tough for the decision makers. If he is being considered for the role even now and that is why he is persisted with I dont have issues but if thats not the reason and he doesnt start delivering soon than it wont make sense.

 

[Junaids]

So it was all about the captaincy to start with, I would be lying if I say I didnt know.

Yes Shan Masood has a good mind and wont be a bad captain at all and I personally wouldnt have mind seeing him as captain if he would have been performing but is he gonna be good enough to inspire the team without performing? I am not sure. Still making a guy who averages 27 in test cricket would be a tough call to make and keeping in mind you cant drop the skipper as well if he doesnt improve. Would be a lot of pressure on him as well as PCB as he will not only will have to bring his career back on track but also will handle the team as well.

To be honest, I’m undecided whether the Pakistan captain should be Mohammad Rizwan or Shan Masood, and I’m leaning towards Rizwan because I think that Shan Masood is too old and that his place in the side is not secure enough.

I’m clear that Azhar Ali is a massively worse choice: he clearly isn’t good enough to be in the side any more.

Mike Brearley is generally viewed as the ultimate captain who wasn’t good enough to be in the team. But in his worst year - when he was brought back as an old man for one series - he averaged 17.62.

Azhar Ali only averages 13.41 this year. And the year ends in 14 days!

It’s criminal that Azhar Ali is still in the team, and it’s absolute madness that he has somehow just become the skipper.

 

[Titan24]

Maybe I could have worded it better, I'm asking which Pakistani opener has managed to average 35+ both in Australia and South Africa as well (not in aggregate!) in the same season i.e. over a 12 - 18 month period, as the away tours of both countries are scheduled not too far apart.

If I'm not mistaken I don't remember any Pakistani batsman being able to accomplish this.

I notice how you misrepresent Shan's contributions in Australia and South Africa by stating his average in the "30s", when he averaged no less than 38 during those tours, so perhaps quoting "near 40" would be a more appropriate and a less misleading figure to go by. This just goes to show how blatantly obvious your preformed bias against him really is.

I don't know why you keep bringing up his pre-2019 form because it holds no relevance to current affairs, but I find it amusing how desperate you are to put him down. Reminds me of that time in the beginning of the year, when you were doing the same to Mickey. I will never forget the ex-player who you vouched for as his replacement Don't worry the secret is safe with me (for now).

Again you post another irrelevant stat in this discussion, concerning his SR of 43 being similar to Sami Aslam's 39. I'll tell you what is relevant though, Shan Masood has a SR of 48 for 2019, which is significantly higher than 39.

Also it would be pertinent to highlight Sami Aslam's stats in Australia, as this was conveniently ignored by you.

DRUM ROLL

Average of 12.00 at a SR of 25.53

Saeed Anwer averaged 47 in Aus in 1999 and 35+ in SA 1998.

If one has to be as selective as this that which opener averaged 38 in tour of Aus and SA in 12-18 months to prove someones caliber than I am afraid there isnt much to present.

I openly admit that I said Moshin Khan couldnt have done worse as a test coach as Mickey and I stand by it.

So for Shan Masood we can only consider 2019 year while for Sami Aslam we also need to bring in his performances fro first time he held the bat. Ok fair enough.

I dont hate Shan and wanted him to turn it around and even become captain around this time. However, I try not to deny the facts which at the moment are that he hasnt done anything of note in his career to remain in the team let alone captaining it. He needs to atleast produce some spark.

 

[Titan24]

To be honest, I’m undecided whether the Pakistan captain should be Mohammad Rizwan or Shan Masood, and I’m leaning towards Rizwan because I think that Shan Masood is too old and that his place in the side is not secure enough.

I’m clear that Azhar Ali is a massively worse choice: he clearly isn’t good enough to be in the side any more.

Mike Brearley is generally viewed as the ultimate captain who wasn’t good enough to be in the team. But in his worst year - when he was brought back as an old man for one series - he averaged 17.62.

Azhar Ali only averages 13.41 this year. And the year ends in 14 days!

It’s criminal that Azhar Ali is still in the team, and it’s absolute madness that he has somehow just become the skipper.

Yes. Rizwan has been really impressive in the leadership role for Pakistan A, Emerging team as well as his domestic side. Shan can be a short term fix but he needs to show atleast something with bat. Rizwan is more stable as he is undoubtedly the best keeper we have at the moment.

Azhar was made captain because of lack of options to be honest, Shan didnt stand up as a player as expected while Babar cant be pressured with all the captaincies at once and Rizwan has just made a much warranted comeback.

 

[topspin]

Saeed Anwer averaged 47 in Aus in 1999 and 35+ in SA 1998.

If one has to be as selective as this that which opener averaged 38 in tour of Aus and SA in 12-18 months to prove someones caliber than I am afraid there isnt much to present.

I openly admit that I said Moshin Khan couldnt have done worse as a test coach as Mickey and I stand by it.

So for Shan Masood we can only consider 2019 year while for Sami Aslam we also need to bring in his performances fro first time he held the bat. Ok fair enough.

I dont hate Shan and wanted him to turn it around and even become captain around this time. However, I try not to deny the facts which at the moment are that he hasnt done anything of note in his career to remain in the team let alone captaining it. He needs to atleast produce some spark.

Yes it might be selective, but it shows you don't just pick up any batsman from domestics to deliver in both countries as commendably as Shan did over one season. That is what I'm trying to illustrate here.

Honestly, I only bought up Sami Aslam's stats because you brought up Shan's career strike rate being not too dissimilar to Sami's. Also in an earlier post I did ask for his career average in Australia as well.

Do you seriously believe a man who averaged 12 with a SR of 25 can recover from this to forge a half decent career? I simply can't and it isn't just because of how bad those stats are but also because I've genuinely never seen a Pakistani batsman touring Australia, look as mentally shot as he was with the bat.

The next opener to be given a chance should perhaps be Imran Butt. Although I haven't seen him play, we've given enough opportunities to Imam and Sami.

 

[coy0607]

They are not "equally bad".

The geriatric version of Azhar Ali is really poor, and is terrible outside Asia.

Shan Masood is average.

Average and poor are not the same thing. Lets look at the 6 Test matches that Pakistan has played in the last year. Here are their innings side by side.

SHAN MASOOD versus AZHAR ALI, 17 December 2018 - 16 December 2019
10 & 65 v 36 & 0
44 & 61 v 2 & 6
2 & 37 v 0 & 15
27 & 42 v 39 & 5
19 & 68 v 9 & 9
0 & dnb v 36


Shan Masood: 6 Tests - 384 runs @ 34.90
Azhar Ali: 6 Tests - 157 runs @ 14.27

Okay, not equally bad. But both are horrible nonetheless, anyone who averages below 35 over an extended period is terrible and has no business playing for Pakistan.

The point being, no reason to only focus on replacing Azhar. Both should be replaced ASAP, with Haris and Shafiq not far behind if they don't show more consistency

 

[KingKhan12]

Shan Masood has improved but needs to get a few big scores to make that opening spot his. Next test is crucial for his career.
Abid Ali should be getting a regular spot for few series now and would be good to see Sami Aslam and Imran Butt getting a place instead of Shan in the future.

 

[MenInG]

Shan Masood has improved but needs to get a few big scores to make that opening spot his. Next test is crucial for his career.
Abid Ali should be getting a regular spot for few series now and would be good to see Sami Aslam and Imran Butt getting a place instead of Shan in the future.

Question will soon become how many chances does he need to prove himself?

 

[MenInG]

Question will soon become how many chances does he need to prove himself?

Gone for 5 this time.

 

[Majid Khan]

I’m sure a classy innings of 40 is coming in the second innings to silence all critics.

 

[world cup captain]

It's time to call it a day on him. He's already 30 and won't go on a Brandmanisque run hence it's time to bring in Sami Aslam and give him a long run.

 

[Syed1]

Abba's connections might get you into the team, but it won't help you score runs. Another parchee player, another failure. When will Pakistan learn that a merit selection will always outperform a parchee.

 

[Aviator]

I am surprised to seee he has so many fans here...One fluke series in africa and he is the bradman. This is why Pakistan is racing to bottom. Masood like batsman won't find place in PNG team on merit.

 

[aukhan]

Having an influential father is enough to merit a place in playing 11. His name was under consideration to be Test Captain.

Im gonna say it again. Better to play Imam over him. Horse is better than Donkey.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Shan Masood - Another Mohammad Hafeez in the making?

Yet we discover another opener just like Hafeez who apparently seems technically correct but is good for only scores of 20s, 30s and occasional 50s
His FC average is below 35 so expecting him to score daddy hundreds is unreasonable

When will the torture end?

We need to rope in Sami Aslam in our test team who definitely has the ability to play long innings.

 

[ElRaja]

with all due respect to shan, hafeez for all his flaws was in another league as a test opener, especially in asia (38 tests, 3000 runs at 47 with 9 hundreds, s/r nearly 60), add to that his more than useful off spin bowling.

hafeez struggled outside asia, and was punished because pak didnt play many tests at home. he is pbly our most effective test opener in asia since saeed anwar.

 

[Titan24]

Yet we discover another opener just like Hafeez who apparently seems technically correct but is good for only scores of 20s, 30s and occasional 50s
His FC average is below 35 so expecting him to score daddy hundreds is unreasonable

When will the torture end?

We need to rope in Sami Aslam in our test team who definitely has the ability to play long innings.

Hafeez's technical issues and overseas problems aside, he has 10 100s in tests and ended his test career with an avg of 37.64 which is pretty good if we look at the history of Pak test openers with Saeed Anwer being the only outlier.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Having an influential father is enough to merit a place in playing 11. His name was under consideration to be Test Captain.

Im gonna say it again. Better to play Imam over him. Horse is better than Donkey.

Shan deserves to be dropped, imam is just as rubbish and shouldnt be in squad either. Pakistan need to look else where for an opening partner for Abid.

 

[shah_1]

He needs to be dropped

He should blame himself for this, couldn't convert those starts into something useful since SA tour.

 

[ar2020]

Good batsman. You don't just keep dropping players lol. These posters are useless. We are not playing musical chairs. Keep playing Masood. Give him an extended run till end of 2020 or 2021.

 

[HappyWarsFan]

Good batsman. You don't just keep dropping players lol. These posters are useless. We are not playing musical chairs. Keep playing Masood. Give him an extended run till end of 2020 or 2021.

Gotta be the dumbest post of the week. This guy has been playing since 2013. He is a TTF simple as that.

 

[topspin]

Good batsman. You don't just keep dropping players lol. These posters are useless. We are not playing musical chairs. Keep playing Masood. Give him an extended run till end of 2020 or 2021.

Well said. You don't average 38+ in both Australia and South Africa on your first tours down under if you're anything less than good.

He's allowed one bad series before all the knives come out for him.

Azhar Ali is the one who's been letting his team down with his average of 13-14 (for 2019) but you don't see the same sort of outrage by Misbah's loyalists on here.

 

[Hawkeye]

with all due respect to shan, hafeez for all his flaws was in another league as a test opener, especially in asia (38 tests, 3000 runs at 47 with 9 hundreds, s/r nearly 60), add to that his more than useful off spin bowling.

hafeez struggled outside asia, and was punished because pak didnt play many tests at home. he is pbly our most effective test opener in asia since saeed anwar.

Yep.

Hafeez was 10 ten times the batsman. There's not even a comparison. Even though Hafeez wasn't our best.

This tells you how mediocre Shan is. Pretty sure no other team will even consider him, not even AFG.

 

[Titan24]

Good batsman. You don't just keep dropping players lol. These posters are useless. We are not playing musical chairs. Keep playing Masood. Give him an extended run till end of 2020 or 2021.

So when other teams drop non performers they are playing musical chairs. Look at how much rotation Aus and Eng have done in their test openers because they dont accept mediocrity and they rarely give any batsman averaging 25 after 10 matches an extended run let alone playing 19 matches with an average of 25.

If Shan scores a century in the 3nd innings good enough otherwise he needs to go and play domestic while other deserving guy is given a chance in the hope that atleast he averages 35+ after 10-15 matches as anything less than that by an opener is an extra burden which Pak team cant afford to carry on and on.

 

[Saj]

Has to make a big score in the 2nd innings if he is to keep his place.

It's not looking good for him at all.

 

[ahmedzee]

I am still surprised why they dropped Sami Aslam in the first place. He performed well in the England series of 2016 as a 19/20 year old.

 

[coy0607]

Has to make a big score in the 2nd innings if he is to keep his place.

It's not looking good for him at all.

I think I’ve heard that said before about Shan

 

[ar2020]

So when other teams drop non performers they are playing musical chairs. Look at how much rotation Aus and Eng have done in their test openers because they dont accept mediocrity and they rarely give any batsman averaging 25 after 10 matches an extended run let alone playing 19 matches with an average of 25.

If Shan scores a century in the 3nd innings good enough otherwise he needs to go and play domestic while other deserving guy is given a chance in the hope that atleast he averages 35+ after 10-15 matches as anything less than that by an opener is an extra burden which Pak team cant afford to carry on and on.

Please tell me when Australia dropped Aaron Finch when he couldn't score for crap?

 

[ar2020]

Has to make a big score in the 2nd innings if he is to keep his place.

It's not looking good for him at all.

2 bad innings and he has to score to keep his place? lol...

 

[Manager101]

2 bad innings and he has to score to keep his place? lol...

Test batting average of 27 in 17 matches (34 innings) in modern era and still he has to keep playing ?

 

[The Viper]

<iframe src="https://streamable.com/s/oqg2z/eixufc" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; fullscreen" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Nasty Naz]

I've been saying for a while now that Shan Masood is a pretty bad player. He might be fine, maybe even good in ODI's based on his List A record but his FC record is poor and his average is in the 20's with only one hundred which came nearly 5 years ago. He is 30 years old.

There's no sudden or magical improvement coming. At that age, you are what you are and he's had more than ample opportunity to prove himself and has clearly shown he doesn't possess the talent to be that good in Tests.

Don't really understand Pakistan's obsession to continue playing two openers, which is Pakistan's weakest position all the time and have Azhar bat at 3 who is definitely the worst batsmen on the team at this point but since he is the captain, he won't be dropped. It's literally the most simplest strategy to have Azhar open with one of the other opening options to limit the damage in this woeful lineup and have guys like Babar/Fawad/Haris/Asad who at least provide you more stable options in the middle.

It honestly feels hopeless rooting for this team. The selectors/coaches and almost everyone in PCB seems so incomprehensibly dumb and have no ability to recognize or develop talent. There is literally zero strategy or logical steps, it's pretty much "let's just throw this against the wall and see if it sticks".

 

[Saj]

<iframe src="https://streamable.com/s/oqg2z/eixufc" width="640" height="360" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; fullscreen" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Great ball, but time and again he lets himself down.

Seemed late on the ball today.

My guess is that Pakistan have probably not even seen vids of some of these Sri Lankan bowlers.

 

[Titan24]

Please tell me when Australia dropped Aaron Finch when he couldn't score for crap?

I thought the topic of discussion was test cricket. Anyways lets put it aside first, Finch averged was still over 35 in ODIs during his bad patch and was already a proven performer with few 100s so one can say he was out of form.

What exactly has Shan Masood done in the past to say he is currently out of form? It can actually be his peak and maybe he isnt cut out for the format as avg of 35 in FC isnt really great as well.

In tests Aus has rotated, Burns, Finch, Renshaw, Harris, Bancroft in the last 2 years. Were they trying to play musical chairs? Not to forget that Burns was averaging mid to high 30s when he was dropped while Renshaw was averaging 33. Then Bancroft and Harris were given 9-10 matches each where they averaged almost same as Shan and were dropped.

Carrying an opening batsman with an average in mid 20s for almost 20 matches is a rare incident.

I am all up for sticking with the players and consistency but you can only stick for certain time and if they dont become performer in that time then they should be replaced unless someone is a prodigy which Shan is clearly not.

 

[Titan24]

My guess is that Pakistan have probably not even seen vids of some of these Sri Lankan bowlers.

Tactics and strategies are probably the weakest aspects of Pakistan cricket team and even some lower tier teams do better homework.

Bowlers rarely know the weak areas of the opposition batsmen, recent addition to the long list of examples was not trying around the wicket angle against Warner in Aus until it was too late. While his partner Burns who was strong on legs was regularly fed on leg side by Pak bowlers and there are numerous other examples.

Same is the case with batting when our batsmen get surprised by googlies of Hasranga in T20s and Dane Oliver looked like an alien to them in SA.

 

[Markhor]

I've been saying for a while now that Shan Masood is a pretty bad player. He might be fine, maybe even good in ODI's based on his List A record but his FC record is poor and his average is in the 20's with only one hundred which came nearly 5 years ago. He is 30 years old.

There's no sudden or magical improvement coming. At that age, you are what you are and he's had more than ample opportunity to prove himself and has clearly shown he doesn't possess the talent to be that good in Tests.

Don't really understand Pakistan's obsession to continue playing two openers, which is Pakistan's weakest position all the time and have Azhar bat at 3 who is definitely the worst batsmen on the team at this point but since he is the captain, he won't be dropped. It's literally the most simplest strategy to have Azhar open with one of the other opening options to limit the damage in this woeful lineup and have guys like Babar/Fawad/Haris/Asad who at least provide you more stable options in the middle.

It honestly feels hopeless rooting for this team. The selectors/coaches and almost everyone in PCB seems so incomprehensibly dumb and have no ability to recognize or develop talent. There is literally zero strategy or logical steps, it's pretty much "let's just throw this against the wall and see if it sticks".

Agreed with every word of this. I cannot understand for the life of me why Azhar has constantly hopped back and forth between opening and 3 for the last two years. I'd have pensioned him off by now, but if he's to play, he must open so at least the middle order has a chance of rebuilding the innings.

However when your openers are being dismissed cheaply, and Azhar is a walking wicket at 3, that's three wickets gone for nothing and the middle order is under huge pressure.

I'd be more optimistic if I felt there was some semblance of a plan, a core group of 12-13 youngsters with a few senior pros to guide them that we're investing in for the next few years. But at the moment, this lot is living on a wing and a prayer. Take the Musa Khan selection in Australia - there was no rational or statistical basis to take a mediocre domestic performer with a terrible ER with little FC experience other than some vague notion that pace is pace yaar and that we'd blow away the opposition with teenage tearaways like it's still the 1980s.

 

[Hasan123]

Time to try someone else. We have openers who are young and can improve. Their is no point in wasting time with Shan.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Shan has been given enough chances.He is not good enough.Time to give a chance to someone else pref a youngster.

 

[KingKhan12]

Shan Masood has improved from where he started of but he just doesn't seem to get big scores. Don't see him improving much more. Unless he don't get a score in 2nd innings I think it will be end for him for a while. Sami Aslam and Imran Butt both should replace Shan and Imam in squad and partner Abid Ali. Give these 3 a run for some series and invest in them.

 

[MenInG]

His chance to make an impact in the 2nd innings - could go a long way in restoring his confidence.

 

[Abdullah719]

His chance to make an impact in the 2nd innings - could go a long way in restoring his confidence.

This year in 6 first innings, he has made 97 runs @ 16.
In 5 second innings (including current), he has 228 runs @ 57 including 2 fifties.

 

[KingKhan12]

Needs a decent score in this innings. Got a start like he does most of the time but needs to kick on for a big score

 

[Titan24]

Masood has a List A average of around 50, he needs to bring in bit more shots after settling in the longer format as well. Its difficult to survive for a lot of balls regularly and score a century which he has done once unless you have an extraordinary technique which Shan doesnt. He has a decent technique but he will be better of targeting to make most out of his stay at the crease. As clearly his regular approach in test cricket havent worked from him in 18 out of 19 matches.

 

[Bullet Drive]

It's all confidence with Shan.

He clearly has the technique and defence to survive in tough conditions. His issue is lack of range of shots once he is set.

 

[Nasty Naz]

His chance to make an impact in the 2nd innings - could go a long way in restoring his confidence.

He is lucky he wasn't given out LBW and barely survived due to umpire's call.

Even if he miraculously manages to do well, Pakistan need to move on from him. Give him a proper shot in ODI's but stop playing him in Tests.

 

[Hawkeye]

Ugh.

He might score a 50 and then this mediocrity will be retained!!

Misbah, see the bigger picture please and kick him out. Our team deserves better.

 

[GreenKhan]

It’s a tough one with Shan , as he had a very mediocre start to his career. But his last two tours to Australia and South Africa he has averaged close to 40 which is decent .

He needs a good score in this innings and the pressure is on, in terms of Pakistan’s position in the match and his own place . If he can produce an innings which helps Pakistan win the match then he deserves a run .

 

[Amjid Javed]

Seems to be in survival mode and just occupying the crease, he needs to improve offside game and score more runs. Really needs to get a big hundred tomorrow.

 

[QalandarFan]

It’s a tough one with Shan , as he had a very mediocre start to his career. But his last two tours to Australia and South Africa he has averaged close to 40 which is decent .

He needs a good score in this innings and the pressure is on, in terms of Pakistan’s position in the match and his own place . If he can produce an innings which helps Pakistan win the match then he deserves a run .

Averaged 38 and 39 in SA and Aus respectively with high score of 68 on both tours combined. That is not good enough for test cricket.

 

[Abdullah]

It’s a tough one with Shan , as he had a very mediocre start to his career. But his last two tours to Australia and South Africa he has averaged close to 40 which is decent .

He needs a good score in this innings and the pressure is on, in terms of Pakistan’s position in the match and his own place . If he can produce an innings which helps Pakistan win the match then he deserves a run .

Yes and it was consistent scoring. Not shafiq type scores where he will make a big score and a string of failure. He saw out the new ball every time which is amazing, but does need to kick on now

 

[Abdullah]

Averaged 38 and 39 in SA and Aus respectively with high score of 68 on both tours combined. That is not good enough for test cricket.

I would take that rather than have shafiq type averaging 39, because he consistently got starts, so there is value to seeing off the new ball every time, rather than making 1 very high score and a string of low ones

 

[Junaids]

He seems fine to me.

I’d rather have Sami Aslam, but to be honest my first choice batting lineup currently would probably be:

1. Abid Ali
2. Sami Aslam
3. Shan Masood (c)
4. Babar Azam
5. Asad Shafiq (to retire within 12 months)
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Shadab Khan

Shan Masood is a journeyman, who will probably only ever average around 35.

But he’s far superior to what old age has left of Azhar Ali, or laziness and unfitness has made of Haris Sohail.

 

[MenInG]

Welcome return to form for Shan, as he gets 7th Test 50

 

[Hawkeye]

Becoming a poor man's Asad Shafiq.

Averaging in 20s, but scores a one 40 or 50 to save his spot per series. Will continue to average 25-30.

 

[muqarrab]

Awfully painful to watch, no joy. You can put up with it with he is scoring every time.

 

[Hawkeye]

Awfully painful to watch

Well said.

I would take the runs today though, no matter how ugly and full of chances, as they helped the team.

 

[Boi]

Masood is going to have another nightmare out in England this summer if he continues sparring at those 4/5th stump deliveries and playing across.

 

[QalandarFan]

I would take that rather than have shafiq type averaging 39, because he consistently got starts, so there is value to seeing off the new ball every time, rather than making 1 very high score and a string of low ones

Never said Shafiq is good either. Been calling for him to be dropped for years. Shafiq is like the Afridi of our test squad has played years and continues to play because of that one innings he produces every series or every other series. It's pathetic how he's still in the squad.

 

[QalandarFan]

He seems fine to me.

I’d rather have Sami Aslam, but to be honest my first choice batting lineup currently would probably be:

1. Abid Ali
2. Sami Aslam
3. Shan Masood (c)
4. Babar Azam
5. Asad Shafiq (to retire within 12 months)
6. Mohammad Rizwan (wk)
7. Shadab Khan

Shan Masood is a journeyman, who will probably only ever average around 35.

But he’s far superior to what old age has left of Azhar Ali, or laziness and unfitness has made of Haris Sohail.

If you think Asad Shafiq is going to retire within the next 5 years on his own terms let alone the next 12 months then you've got another thing coming. He needs to be dropped along with Azhar with immediate affect.