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[VIDEOS] Will Ben Stokes cement a GOAT status for himself if he has a monstrous ICC World Cup 2023?

Mamoon said:
He, like everyone else in this England team, failed in this World Cup when it mattered. All this chest thumping looks comical.

He is selfish and he is clearly not the player he was. He should either have stayed retired from this format or not retired 1 year earlier only to take a U-turn in the last minute and take someone’s spot.

The most selfish cricketer I have ever seen.
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Selfish is your opinion.

I would consider it selfless to come out to retirement when you are injured because your team needs you instead of sitting at home, having his surgery and watching this dreadful English performance.

What's not subjective is you were WRONG about him being finished as a cricketer. You were wrong about it 2 years ago and you are wrong again now. You are using the selfish argument to hide your embarrassment as a seemingly 'intelligent' analyst who likes to boldly predict when certain players will do well or fail. Ofcourse he is not as good as he used to be, but neither are Warner, Smith, Williamson, Root, Kohli, Sharma etc. Tell me, was he finished 2 years ago?

Why should he have stayed retired? He came back because he thought England needed him. He was so right. He was unable to keep them in the competition single handedly (no one player can) as he missed a crucial few matches in the middle but he was Englands second best batsman in this tournament and won them 1 out of 2 games, which could lead to Champions Trophy qualification.
 
This flipflopper doesn’t deserve GOAT status.

Crazy how all 3 of England’s biggest allrounders in history have all been emotionally unstable… held them back from being the greatest for sure.
 
Forum363 said:
Selfish is your opinion.

I would consider it selfless to come out to retirement when you are injured because your team needs you instead of sitting at home, having his surgery and watching this dreadful English performance.

What's not subjective is you were WRONG about him being finished as a cricketer. You were wrong about it 2 years ago and you are wrong again now. You are using the selfish argument to hide your embarrassment as a seemingly 'intelligent' analyst who likes to boldly predict when certain players will do well or fail. Ofcourse he is not as good as he used to be, but neither are Warner, Smith, Williamson, Root, Kohli, Sharma etc. Tell me, was he finished 2 years ago?

Why should he have stayed retired? He came back because he thought England needed him. He was so right. He was unable to keep them in the competition single handedly (no one player can) as he missed a crucial few matches in the middle but he was Englands second best batsman in this tournament and won them 1 out of 2 games, which could lead to Champions Trophy qualification.
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England needed him even when he retired from the format one year ago and made a lame excuse that everyone knew was nonsense.

England also needed him in the India series and T20 World Cup in 2021, but he put himself above English cricket.

I repeat: he is the most selfish cricketer I have ever seen.
 
Mamoon said:
England needed him even when he retired from the format one year ago and made a lame excuse that everyone knew was nonsense.

England also needed him in the India series and T20 World Cup in 2021, but he put himself above English cricket.

I repeat: he is the most selfish cricketer I have ever seen.
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Why don’t you comment on his performance for the past 3 years when he’s been ‘finished’ and played innings Root can’t even dream of.
 
Forum363 said:
Why don’t you comment on his performance for the past 3 years when he’s been ‘finished’ and played innings Root can’t even dream of.
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If you agree that he is the most selfish cricketer you have ever seen, that is an improvement on your part. Congratulations.

Once you accept that you were wrong to think that he is selfless, we can proceed to discuss how you are wrong to claim that he is not past his prime.
 
His not selfish kiwis are laid back guys they play till around 33/34 then retire.

Only low life sub continent fans/players grab into every stat pad kohli/baba do.. for stokes & co raat gayi baat gayi.
 
Mamoon said:
Once you accept that you were wrong to think that he is selfless, we can proceed to discuss how you are wrong to claim that he is not past his prime.
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So you’ve changed your opinion from ‘Hes finished’ three years ago to ‘Hes past his prime’.

It must have been tough watching him destroy attacks, at least you’ve retracted your ‘finished’ statement. Glad we made progress.

I will agree he’s not as good as he was at his best, so you can sleep a bit better. But his best is GOAT so there’s that.
 
Forum363 said:
So you’ve changed your opinion from ‘Hes finished’ three years ago to ‘Hes past his prime’.

It must have been tough watching him destroy attacks, at least you’ve retracted your ‘finished’ statement. Glad we made progress.

I will agree he’s not as good as he was at his best, so you can sleep a bit better. But his best is GOAT so there’s that.
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He is finished.
 
Forum363 said:
Keep saying that. Eventually you’ll be right and will only look like an idiot in the meantime.
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That one over against Shami was enough to conclude that it is time for him to hang up his boots.
 
Mamoon said:
That one over against Shami was enough to conclude that it is time for him to hang up his boots.
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Injured knee, injured hip and he still played the best innings for his team the match after rescuing his team from another shameful defeat that would have caused them to miss CT qualification.

But let’s reset. You can say he’s finished from nowwwww. Hold your breath he doesn’t perform again.
 
Forum363 said:
Injured knee, injured hip and he still played the best innings for his team the match after rescuing his team from another shameful defeat that would have caused them to miss CT qualification.

But let’s reset. You can say he’s finished from nowwwww. Hold your breath he doesn’t perform again.
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Injured knee and hip? You can’t be serious.

Who told him to make himself available for the IPL right before the Ashes?

What sort of precedence is the England captain setting for young players?
 
Mamoon said:
Injured knee and hip? You can’t be serious.

Who told him to make himself available for the IPL right before the Ashes?

What sort of precedence is the England captain setting for young players?
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Why are you singling him out over all the other players who chose ipl?

He got the hip injury at the beginning of the World Cup so that has nothing to do with ipl.

Try again. You’ve gone back from he’s finished to he’s selfish LOL. That lasted once message before you couldn’t discount his century so had to backtrack to your ‘but but but he’s selfish so it doesn’t count if I’m wrong about his performances’.
 
Forum363 said:
Why are you singling him out over all the other players who chose ipl?
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Because not everyone is an England Test captain who made himself available for an IPL with a bad knee right before an Ashes series. If Joe Root or Jos Buttler had done this, they would get bashed like no tomorrow. However, since it is darling Stokes, the English media have to be indebted to him for summer of 2019 for the rest of his life and he can get away with anything he wants.
Forum363 said:
He got the hip injury at the beginning of the World Cup so that has nothing to do with ipl.
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He has had a recurring and serious knee injury for a very long time and he made himself available for the IPL with a bad knee knowing that there could be a possibility of him getting ruled out for the Ashes. He is a selfish, greedy individual and there is nothing wrong with that but let's not sugarcoat it.

He retired from ODIs in 2022 because he wanted to chase T20 money and not because of some BS 'workload' excuse.
Forum363 said:
Try again. You’ve gone back from he’s finished to he’s selfish LOL. That lasted once message before you couldn’t discount his century so had to backtrack to your ‘but but but he’s selfish so it doesn’t count if I’m wrong about his performances’.
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He is finished.
 
Mamoon said:
Because not everyone is an England Test captain who made himself available for an IPL with a bad knee right before an Ashes series. If Joe Root or Jos Buttler had done this, they would get bashed like no tomorrow. However, since it is darling Stokes, the English media have to be indebted to him for summer of 2019 for the rest of his life and he can get away with anything he wants.

He has had a recurring and serious knee injury for a very long time and he made himself available for the IPL with a bad knee knowing that there could be a possibility of him getting ruled out for the Ashes. He is a selfish, greedy individual and there is nothing wrong with that but let's not sugarcoat it.

He retired from ODIs in 2022 because he wanted to chase T20 money and not because of some BS 'workload' excuse.

He is finished.
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So he’s definitely finished now? He won’t play any more good innings anymore
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Completely agree that Stokes has made some really selfish decisions.

He left ODI cricket purely to chase the IPL money. Nothing wrong in it but he showed up there unfit and unable to bowl.

Same in Ashes and now same in world cup.

Either get the operation done and become bowling fit, else inform world clearly that you are now only a batter in all formats.

Maybe Stokes views his Ashes and WC comebacks as him putting England ahead of his medical priorities but I feel he is simply chasing glory.
 
pratiktc said:
Completely agree that Stokes has made some really selfish decisions.

He left ODI cricket purely to chase the IPL money. Nothing wrong in it but he showed up there unfit and unable to bowl.

Same in Ashes and now same in world cup.

Either get the operation done and become bowling fit, else inform world clearly that you are now only a batter in all formats.

Maybe Stokes views his Ashes and WC comebacks as him putting England ahead of his medical priorities but I feel he is simply chasing glory.
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What glory? The guy has achieved more than most cricketers achieve.

He knew England needed him and he came through. They didn’t need him in meaningless ODIs so he chose IPL. Not sure why he’s being singled out among all the other players who do that.
 
The inner beast of Stokes has woken up - bit late for England!

lcimg-53521a8d-46fd-4090-838b-10fe0ade8e0d.jpeg
 
Stokes has been the aggressor in this 78-run stand and he's looking to attack at every possible opportunity. He has found some form in this match against Pakistan as he scored his thirst consecutive 50 off 53 balls.
 
Mamoon said:
Because not everyone is an England Test captain who made himself available for an IPL with a bad knee right before an Ashes series. If Joe Root or Jos Buttler had done this, they would get bashed like no tomorrow. However, since it is darling Stokes, the English media have to be indebted to him for summer of 2019 for the rest of his life and he can get away with anything he wants.

He has had a recurring and serious knee injury for a very long time and he made himself available for the IPL with a bad knee knowing that there could be a possibility of him getting ruled out for the Ashes. He is a selfish, greedy individual and there is nothing wrong with that but let's not sugarcoat it.

He retired from ODIs in 2022 because he wanted to chase T20 money and not because of some BS 'workload' excuse.

He is finished.
Click to expand...
Another 50 from the ‘finished’ cricketer while Root sucked all momentum from the innings at the other end.
 
He’s certainly making a case for himself to continue in the ODI format after this tournament, and in a top order position. I thought he would retire and focus on Tests only. But he’s been seeing the ball beautifully in the last couple of games. As his all round ability wanes over time due to age and injury, he seems to be reinventing himself as a specialist batsman. This will prolong his career at the top level.
 
James said:
He’s certainly making a case for himself to continue in the ODI format after this tournament, and in a top order position. I thought he would retire and focus on Tests only. But he’s been seeing the ball beautifully in the last couple of games. As his all round ability wanes over time due to age and injury, he seems to be reinventing himself as a specialist batsman. This will prolong his career at the top level.
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But where his passion at? Seems like test cricket and rightly so.
 
pratiktc said:
Completely agree that Stokes has made some really selfish decisions.

He left ODI cricket purely to chase the IPL money. Nothing wrong in it but he showed up there unfit and unable to bowl.

Same in Ashes and now same in world cup.

Either get the operation done and become bowling fit, else inform world clearly that you are now only a batter in all formats.

Maybe Stokes views his Ashes and WC comebacks as him putting England ahead of his medical priorities but I feel he is simply chasing glory.
Click to expand...

He’s been practicing his off spin all year. After his knee surgery I can envisage the last few years of his career being as a specialist top order batsman who bowls a bit of spin. He can potentially solve the “number three batsman problem” for England in Tests, and also bat in this number four position in ODIs.
 
James said:
He did miss some games due to injury. He’s probably just getting his eye in now.
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He missed first 2 games I think. Kept flopping after it until England were officially knocked out.
 
Stokes in a career sense certainly can’t be accused of being a soft run plunderer or FTB/HTB, he’s played clutch knocks in numerous Test matches including an Ashes Test to win by 1 wicket and in both 2019/2022 World Cup finals where England won both times.
 
James said:
Stokes in a career sense certainly can’t be accused of being a soft run plunderer or FTB/HTB, he’s played clutch knocks in numerous Test matches including an Ashes Test to win by 1 wicket and in both 2019/2022 World Cup finals where England won both times.
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Can't be accused of HTB, but apart from that 258 v SA, what has he done of note in outside England in tests?

Averaged 23 with bat and 71 with ball in last Ashes.

Averaged 25 with bat and picked 5 wickets with ball in India last time.

He played on flat tracks in 2016 and averaged 38 on that run fest series.

Which clutch knock did he play? His bit and pieces performances are the one of many reasons for so many losses for England in away series.
 
Ben Stokes during an interview with Sky News after the match against Pakistan:

I'll think long and hard about my future
"I think to answer that one it goes back to my initial reason for stepping away from this format, to ease my workload.

"As Test captain, there is a lot of stuff coming up. There's a lot of stuff that I want to do with that Test team. And, you know, that'll be a decision that I'm probably I'll have to think about, quite hard, to produce an outcome.

"You never know the body might be in a lot better position than it was in the last 18 months.

"I put a lot of hard work in away from crickets to give myself the best chance of a quicker recovery. And there is Christmas and everything coming up. The main thing to me is getting this knee right and being ready to go."
 
Downhill for Stokes as far as money is concerned it seems

==

Ben Stokes is set to be released by Chennai Super Kings. The decision, albeit reluctant, is based on his likely unavailability for IPL 2024. The England all-rounder, acquired by CSK for Rs 16.25 crore in the last mini-auction in Kochi, participated in only two games throughout the season.

It is established that Stokes will undergo surgery on his left knee and the procedure necessitates close to two months for recovery. However, the Chennai Super Kings management is unwilling to take a chance on his availability for the league, scheduled for March-May 2024.

Sources suggest that CSK management has had discussions with Stokes, who indicated focusing on the IPL only after the World Cup. Despite England's World Cup campaign concluding, CSK officials are yet to contact him directly. Conversations with his manager have also been inconclusive regarding his availability for the upcoming season.

A CSK official stated, "We would not consider releasing Stokes if he could be available because he is a big match player, and we hold him in the highest regard. But if he can't make it to the season, we will have blocked Rs 16 crore with which we could acquire some quality players."
 
It's pretty clear we are not looking at the same stokes anymore.
Yes he signed off with 2 good knocks, but his injury is clearly affecting him. Even more so with the fact that he hasn't bowled regularly for a while now.
It's a good thing he is going to have some time out now for surgery, but even so when he does come back we will be looking at his career twilight. He'll play the t20 wc next year and the 2025 CT, but after that he'll be done I reckon. I doubt he will stay until the away ashes at the tail end of 2025.
 
batandballbattle said:
It's pretty clear we are not looking at the same stokes anymore.
Yes he signed off with 2 good knocks, but his injury is clearly affecting him. Even more so with the fact that he hasn't bowled regularly for a while now.
It's a good thing he is going to have some time out now for surgery, but even so when he does come back we will be looking at his career twilight. He'll play the t20 wc next year and the 2025 CT, but after that he'll be done I reckon. I doubt he will stay until the away ashes at the tail end of 2025.
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Infact now thinking about it they may not be able to call him back to ODIs again for the 2025 CT. He may just sign off at the end of the english test summer next year or the year after.
 
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