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"Virat Kohli will win more games than me" : MS Dhoni

ExplicitAI

ExplicitAI

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After Dhoni's retirement from LOI's, Kohli is now the torch bearer for India across all formats of the game. One can see that India have a formidable home record and are number 1 in Test cricket whilst their captain is easily one of the best ODI batsman in the world.

Dhoni expects Virat Kohli to win more games than him when he was captain as well as rewriting history, which could mean a lot of things.

The team has handled pressure across major tournaments and know what it's like to be out there scoring runs and taking wickets in pressure situations.

Do you guys think Virat Kohli will help India to reach new heights?
 
Of what I've seen of Kohli as a limited overs captain in the IPL, I don't think he has that special gift of choking runs that Dhoni had.

Kohli is more aggressive and doesn't mind taking risks which is why he's been good in tests so far as a captain, but I've never seen anyone choke the run flow like Dhoni did.
 
Kohli is the man for India. Dhoni just making sure his legacy shines better and better with these 'humble' statements.
 
Dhoni is over rated as match winner.All the hard work of bringing run rate down during difficult chase(high reqd rate chases) was done by Yuvraj Singh or Rain a or someone else.He just used to hit the winning six and people go crazy?
 
Dhoni though was of great utility for low scoring tricky chase.But the problem is not many match are such.
 
Sarfarazian92 said:
Of what I've seen of Kohli as a limited overs captain in the IPL, I don't think he has that special gift of choking runs that Dhoni had.

Kohli is more aggressive and doesn't mind taking risks which is why he's been good in tests so far as a captain, but I've never seen anyone choke the run flow like Dhoni did.
Click to expand...

You think he can beat Pakistan more often like Dhoni did?
 
ExplicitAI said:
You think he can beat Pakistan more often like Dhoni did?
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No. If he does, it'll be down to the growing difference in quality of players between the two teams.

In WC 2015, when Harris Sohail started off briskly in the WC, Dhoni packed the offside field inside the circle and Harris couldn't thread the gap against Mohit Sharma. From the other end he brought on Ashwin.

Bringing Ashwin is not a special decision, offspinner to lefty, common sense. However, maybe some other captain would've placed deep cover and allowed Harris Sohail a single through the offside against Mohit Sharma, but Dhoni packed the offside field with 5 in the ring and Harris kept playing dots and eventually Ashwin got him out.
 
Sarfarazian92 said:
No. If he does, it'll be down to the growing difference in quality of players between the two teams.

In WC 2015, when Harris Sohail started off briskly in the WC, Dhoni packed the offside field inside the circle and Harris couldn't thread the gap against Mohit Sharma. From the other end he brought on Ashwin.

Bringing Ashwin is not a special decision, offspinner to lefty, common sense. However, maybe some other captain would've placed deep cover and allowed Harris Sohail a single through the offside against Mohit Sharma, but Dhoni packed the offside field with 5 in the ring and Harris kept playing dots and eventually Ashwin got him out.
Click to expand...

Yeah Dhoni knew how to constrict runs properly like the way he did in Mohali, boundaries dried up towards the end until Afridi and Misbah started hitting.

I'm scared of our 72-51 ODI record run, you think we can still win games?
 
The streak will fall during Kohli's reign.

undert10.jpg
 
Aman said:
The streak will fall during Kohli's reign.

undert10.jpg
Click to expand...

Us breaking the world cup streak? I hope so, people need to remember that we have beaten India before in an ICC event but that's only happened twice which isn't good enough.
 
India's streak in WC in pak is the greatest ever across all sports and sports entertainment in me humble opinion.

Dhoni putting pressure on Kohli after Virat assured that we'd be seeing a more aggressive Dhoni henceforth:yk3
 
Looks too fairytailish for Kohli,Hopefully he is captain 2 years later as well.(meaning we would had done well),but yes looks like streak will end in his tenure.
 
Home or away? Coz India don't win much away.
I'd be surprised if India has won more than 6 games away over the last 10 years. If so that's a poor criteria to reach.
 
soso_killer said:
Home or away? Coz India don't win much away.
I'd be surprised if India has won more than 6 games away over the last 10 years. If so that's a poor criteria to reach.
Click to expand...

Yeah considering he just handed over LOI captaincy to Kohli,thinking its about LOI then for Kohli there is a T20,ICC and Worldcup to win to come near Dhoni,ofcourse those are just dreams for any South African captains because reaching a final of a world cup still seems to be hard for Proteas.
 
shaz619 said:
India's streak in WC in pak is the greatest ever across all sports and sports entertainment in me humble opinion.

Dhoni putting pressure on Kohli after Virat assured that we'd be seeing a more aggressive Dhoni henceforth:yk3
Click to expand...

Its got nothing on the Undertaker
 
What is overall record of dhoni as captain against pakistan? And how it compares to others?
 
soso_killer said:
Home or away? Coz India don't win much away.
I'd be surprised if India has won more than 6 games away over the last 10 years. If so that's a poor criteria to reach.
Click to expand...

Still better than SA winning a knockout ICC match....

Anyways, we won 17 tests away from home since 2006
 
soso_killer said:
Are Windies included in these stats?
Click to expand...

Off the top of my head...

West Indies = 3
Sri Lanka = 3
England = 2
South Africa = 2
Australia = 1
New Zealand = 1

Not too bad for a team that is considered to be a teddy bear away. And when everybody is an HTB anyway.
 
He is in grave danger of becoming the first Indian captain to lose to Pakistan in a World Cup. He strikes fear into our players' hearts with his bat, but as a bowling captain, I don't think he has the ability to choke our batsmen into submission the way Dhoni did every single time in a World Cup match.

Dhoni wouldn't have lost the 2014 Asia Cup from the position India were in, and I don't think he would have allowed England to score 350 after the position they were in yesterday.

Kohli is a quality captain who is always looking for wickets and it serves him well in Tests, but in Limited Overs, it is almost equally important to restrict the flow of runs because more often than not, wickets shall follow. Kohli so far has not impressed in the defensive aspect of Limited Overs captaincy. Neither for India nor for RCB.

Although the gulf in two sides is massive and India is much, much better than Pakistan, we often find ourselves in a 50-50 situation in World Cup matches where, for 20-25 overs, things are in the balance, especially when we are batting. That is where Dhoni prevailed every single time and I don't think Kohli will.

If he indeed loses the streak, Pakistani fans will inevitably bring it up 15-20 years down the line when Kohli's greatness will be discussed. We always clinge to something to make ourselves feel better when attempting to water down the status of Indian greats, but this one will surely feel great.
 
Mamoon said:
He is in grave danger of becoming the first Indian captain to lose to Pakistan in a World Cup. He strikes fear into our players' hearts with his bat, but as a bowling captain, I don't think he has the ability to choke our batsmen into submission the way Dhoni did every single time in a World Cup match.

Dhoni wouldn't have lost the 2014 Asia Cup from the position India were in, and I don't think he would have allowed England to score 350 after the position they were in yesterday.

Kohli is a quality captain who is always looking for wickets and it serves him well in Tests, but in Limited Overs, it is almost equally important to restrict the flow of runs because more often than not, wickets shall follow. Kohli so far has not impressed in the defensive aspect of Limited Overs captaincy. Neither for India nor for RCB.

Although the gulf in two sides is massive and India is much, much better than Pakistan, we often find ourselves in a 50-50 situation in World Cup matches where, for 20-25 overs, things are in the balance, especially when we are batting. That is where Dhoni prevailed every single time and I don't think Kohli will.

If he indeed loses the streak, Pakistani fans will inevitably bring it up 15-20 years down the line when Kohli's greatness will be discussed. We always clinge to something to make ourselves feel better when attempting to water down the status of Indian greats, but this one will surely feel great.
Click to expand...

Thats a very astute observation and my concern as well. We will find out in the CT match this year.
 
Mamoon said:
He is in grave danger of becoming the first Indian captain to lose to Pakistan in a World Cup. He strikes fear into our players' hearts with his bat, but as a bowling captain, I don't think he has the ability to choke our batsmen into submission the way Dhoni did every single time in a World Cup match.

Dhoni wouldn't have lost the 2014 Asia Cup from the position India were in, and I don't think he would have allowed England to score 350 after the position they were in yesterday.

Kohli is a quality captain who is always looking for wickets and it serves him well in Tests, but in Limited Overs, it is almost equally important to restrict the flow of runs because more often than not, wickets shall follow. Kohli so far has not impressed in the defensive aspect of Limited Overs captaincy. Neither for India nor for RCB.

Although the gulf in two sides is massive and India is much, much better than Pakistan, we often find ourselves in a 50-50 situation in World Cup matches where, for 20-25 overs, things are in the balance, especially when we are batting. That is where Dhoni prevailed every single time and I don't think Kohli will.

If he indeed loses the streak, Pakistani fans will inevitably bring it up 15-20 years down the line when Kohli's greatness will be discussed. We always clinge to something to make ourselves feel better when attempting to water down the status of Indian greats, but this one will surely feel great.
Click to expand...

Depending on your personal feelings you'll be heading the list :))

For eg no one has ever thought to blame IK for the WC streak and then you come out
 
Mamoon said:
He is in grave danger of becoming the first Indian captain to lose to Pakistan in a World Cup. He strikes fear into our players' hearts with his bat, but as a bowling captain, I don't think he has the ability to choke our batsmen into submission the way Dhoni did every single time in a World Cup match.

Dhoni wouldn't have lost the 2014 Asia Cup from the position India were in, and I don't think he would have allowed England to score 350 after the position they were in yesterday.

Kohli is a quality captain who is always looking for wickets and it serves him well in Tests, but in Limited Overs, it is almost equally important to restrict the flow of runs because more often than not, wickets shall follow. Kohli so far has not impressed in the defensive aspect of Limited Overs captaincy. Neither for India nor for RCB.

Although the gulf in two sides is massive and India is much, much better than Pakistan, we often find ourselves in a 50-50 situation in World Cup matches where, for 20-25 overs, things are in the balance, especially when we are batting. That is where Dhoni prevailed every single time and I don't think Kohli will.

If he indeed loses the streak, Pakistani fans will inevitably bring it up 15-20 years down the line when Kohli's greatness will be discussed. We always clinge to something to make ourselves feel better when attempting to water down the status of Indian greats, but this one will surely feel great.
Click to expand...

To be quite honest with you, I don't think Azhar is strong enough to lock horns with Kohli, that's why I say that Azhar should get sacked for Sarfraz.
 
ExplicitAI said:
To be quite honest with you, I don't think Azhar is strong enough to lock horns with Kohli, that's why I say that Azhar should get sacked for Sarfraz.
Click to expand...

Azhar has to go. Either of Sarfraz, Malik and Hafeez will do for now. All three are short-term options anyway.
 
Slog said:
Depending on your personal feelings you'll be heading the list :))

For eg no one has ever thought to blame IK for the WC streak and then you come out
Click to expand...

Circumstances are a bit of different though. Everyone realizes that the streak will end one day, whether it's Kohli or some other captain. When it ends, Indian fans will be upset but they will get over it quickly. Pakistani will be more relieved than happy.

However, had Imran taken Pakistan over the line vs India in 1992, there would be no streak in the first place. We might still have lost every other World Cup match but it would have been more about the number of successive Indian wins rather than the fact that we have never beaten them in a World Cup.

That's why I blame Imran as well as Wasim (who lost twice and made it 3-0) for creating this monster. Every Pakistani captain since has had to live up to the pressure of the streak, which first became a talking point in the build up to the 2003 World Cup match, where 4-0 was inevitable with the tactical genius Waqar leading the team.
 
Mamoon said:
Circumstances are a bit of different though. Everyone realizes that the streak will end one day, whether it's Kohli or some other captain. When it ends, Indian fans will be upset but they will get over it quickly. Pakistani will be more relieved than happy.

However, had Imran taken Pakistan over the line vs India in 1992, there would be no streak in the first place. We might still have lost every other World Cup match but it would have been more about the number of successive Indian wins rather than the fact that we have never beaten them in a World Cup.

That's why I blame Imran as well as Wasim (who lost twice and made it 3-0) for creating this monster. Every Pakistani captain since has had to live up to the pressure of the streak, which first became a talking point in the build up to the 2003 World Cup match, where 4-0 was inevitable with the tactical genius Waqar leading the team.
Click to expand...

true.

first time you heard of so called streak was after 2003 match
 
Mamoon said:
Circumstances are a bit of different though. Everyone realizes that the streak will end one day, whether it's Kohli or some other captain. When it ends, Indian fans will be upset but they will get over it quickly. Pakistani will be more relieved than happy.

However, had Imran taken Pakistan over the line vs India in 1992, there would be no streak in the first place. We might still have lost every other World Cup match but it would have been more about the number of successive Indian wins rather than the fact that we have never beaten them in a World Cup.

That's why I blame Imran as well as Wasim (who lost twice and made it 3-0) for creating this monster. Every Pakistani captain since has had to live up to the pressure of the streak, which first became a talking point in the build up to the 2003 World Cup match, where 4-0 was inevitable with the tactical genius Waqar leading the team.
Click to expand...

good explanation .. but Waz was the captain in only one WC match (99). He sat out of the 96 QF.
 
soso_killer said:
Home or away? Coz India don't win much away.
I'd be surprised if India has won more than 6 games away over the last 10 years. If so that's a poor criteria to reach.
Click to expand...
Who cares about useless bilaterals when u win the ultimate prize?yeah winning t 20, champions trophy away is nothing to be proud off right ? Come back when u win something of importance and we can talk
 
Tusker said:
good explanation .. but Waz was the captain in only one WC match (99). He sat out of the 96 QF.
Click to expand...

I know, but I blame his (mysterious) exclusion before the QF as a major reason why we lost that match. His death bowling could have prevented the Jadeja assault.

He might be genuinely injured, but he was as shady as they come and I personally have major doubts.
 
The test record is already on its way of being toppled by Kohli.

In ODI, Kohli will more matches just with his batting. Dhoni will also be in the team alongside him, for a while. That can't hurt Kohli's captaincy.
 
Sarfarazian92 said:
Of what I've seen of Kohli as a limited overs captain in the IPL, I don't think he has that special gift of choking runs that Dhoni had.

Kohli is more aggressive and doesn't mind taking risks which is why he's been good in tests so far as a captain, but I've never seen anyone choke the run flow like Dhoni did.
Click to expand...

Dhoni was greatest match winner in his prime mate....
 
I think Kohli is the aggressive captain India need but captains like MS Dhoni come only once in a generation. You won't find another like him.
 
Makes sense. Dhoni is a smart person.Would like to see him as an analyst or commentator(well of course) post retirement
 
Sin Nombre said:
Kohli will be a worse captain than Dhoni in ODIs but miles better in tests.
Click to expand...

Statistically I think he will do better in ODI's too . The one hes leading now needs some big changes once thats done India will definately win more matches , unlike the Test team which is settled and very young and the core group can play for another 5-8 years easily .
 
jusarrived said:
Statistically I think he will do better in ODI's too . The one hes leading now needs some big changes once thats done India will definately win more matches , unlike the Test team which is settled and very young and the core group can play for another 5-8 years easily .
Click to expand...

Yeah but do you think he can get his bowlers to choke out batsman like Dhoni does?
 
Kohli is the kind of captain who would do very well with a capable bowling attack. However, when it comes to handling mediocre trundlers, there is none like Dhoni.
 
Bowling is still 5/10. Need to reach at least 7/10 to be more consistent.
 
ExplicitAI said:
Yeah but do you think he can get his bowlers to choke out batsman like Dhoni does?
Click to expand...

May be not , cos hes very different to Dhoni in that regard . it may still work though once he settles down , so we will have to wait and see .
One thing very similar about both Dhoni and Virat is that they know the type of players they want in their team and they back them to the very end , which is a big factor imo . if Virat can develop the team according to his style of captaincy then there is every chance he will be a successful captain .
In Tests he has had it relatively easy imo , he has a good set of players who have good exposure playing away from home , unlike ODI side which is in the middle of transition now . Its on him to identify and develop a team for the next WC , hopfully he will not waste more time bringing back players like Yuvi and GG to the side .
 
Mamoon said:
Circumstances are a bit of different though. Everyone realizes that the streak will end one day, whether it's Kohli or some other captain. When it ends, Indian fans will be upset but they will get over it quickly. Pakistani will be more relieved than happy.

However, had Imran taken Pakistan over the line vs India in 1992, there would be no streak in the first place. We might still have lost every other World Cup match but it would have been more about the number of successive Indian wins rather than the fact that we have never beaten them in a World Cup.

That's why I blame Imran as well as Wasim (who lost twice and made it 3-0) for creating this monster. Every Pakistani captain since has had to live up to the pressure of the streak, which first became a talking point in the build up to the 2003 World Cup match, where 4-0 was inevitable with the tactical genius Waqar leading the team.
Click to expand...

Not sure why you're picking on Waqar for the 2003 loss. The kind of mood SRT was in on that day, India would have surpassed any total. In fact in my mind Waqar did quite well under the circumstances. The way he took Ganguly's wicket was genius from both captaincy and bowling standpoint. He set up a field for outgoing bowling for a left-hander, but brought the ball back in and caught Ganguly plumb in front. People forget these mini contests amidst the shock-and-awe that Sachin caused.

There is nothing he could have done when his so called tearaway fast bowler ran away with tail between his legs.

I agree with you that Imran should carry most of the blame for this burden. While the official streak started in 1992, don't forget the twin losses in B&H tourney in 1985 in Australia which well and truly started the domination India has enjoyed against Pak in multilateral tournaments. Amidst the musical chairs that is Pak captaincy, I don't remember if Imran or Javed was the official captain at that time, but Imran definitely was the de facto leader, and was beaten most comprehensively by Sunny's team.
 
Mamoon said:
I know, but I blame his (mysterious) exclusion before the QF as a major reason why we lost that match. His death bowling could have prevented the Jadeja assault.

He might be genuinely injured, but he was as shady as they come and I personally have major doubts.
Click to expand...

I agree that Wasim's absence was super mysterious, and had he played, he could have saved 20-odd runs for Pak. But I don't know if I agree that it was Jadeja's assault that led to the loss. While Jadeja was brilliant, keep in mind that Pak was well on its way to winning the game comfortably. When Saeed Anwar and Aamir Sohail were doing their thing, there was deathly silence in the room (I was in the college then and was watching with 50 other guys in the common TV room). We were beginning to disperse and head out to dinner. And then Sohail did the most mindless thing a batsman could do, and the rest, as they say, is history.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Or its possible that the super flat pitch made it look that way.

But then Virat is no tactical genius even for his RCB side.
Click to expand...

Doesnt have the defensive strategies for ODIs.

Usually goes with whats predecided in team meetings even if nots working

Example Ashwin's round the wicket bowling
 
Saurav said:
Doesnt have the defensive strategies for ODIs.

Usually goes with whats predecided in team meetings even if nots working

Example Ashwin's round the wicket bowling
Click to expand...

Can't blame Kohli for Ashwin's stupidity.

But yeah as a captain he should have asked his bowler to change his lines when its not working.

That was disappointing.

Felt the bowling changes were hapazhard too.

Will take time to learn. Plus patta can make captains look bad.
 
Time to bump this, Kohli's run so far is formidable and his relationship with Dhoni is helping him churn out a lot of victories alongside some brilliant decisions. Will he end up with an ICC trophy in his cabinet too?
 
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