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Virender Sehwag vs Alastair Cook - Better Test opener?

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SLcric123

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Different kinds of players. One a destructive batter while the other a grinder. Both world class Vs spin but not so great Vs quicks.

Who was better? Discuss!
 
Very tough to call. Both are ATGs in my opinion and would have formed an incredible pair, but I would go with Cook by a nose.
 
Sehwag, biggest match winner in asia, and the best player of spin I've ever seen
 
Sehwag.

Cook won't even feature in top 5 English opening batsmen and he is pretty boring to watch.
 
Sehwag atm, though depending on how Cook ends his career he can overtake him.
 
lol Sehwag was a flat track bully, arguably the best ever. But any little swing or movement and he looked like a patheechar. :ik

Not even close, Cook is an ATG opener.
 
KingKhanWC said:
lol Sehwag was a flat track bully, arguably the best ever. But any little swing or movement and he looked like a patheechar. :ik

Not even close, Cook is an ATG opener.
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You must have missed his first away tours to England, Aus & SA then, he did exceptionally well though in SA he did not open. As for Cook, check his record against SA & Aus, the best pace attacks, worse than Sehwag! Sehwag also manhandled Murali & Mendis in SL & then India as well.

Talk about not knowing your numbers :21:
 
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There is no clearcut winner regarding Sehwag vs Cook as of now.
Sehwag leads in average , Cook offsets it with longetivity. If Cook's average by his career end increases close to Sehwag then he will be surely considered better than Sehwag.

Sehwag in a class by itself when it comes to other openers becaue of his exceptional Strike Rate, only Warner comes close in that regard.
In time Sehwag vs Warner will make a fair comparison.

Players with atleast 5000 runs as openers , sorted by Strike Rate

[table= class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]V Sehwag (ICC/INDIA) [/td][td]2002-2013 [/td][td]99 [/td][td]8207 [/td][td]50.04 [/td][td]83.1 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]30 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DA Warner (AUS) [/td][td]2011-2017 [/td][td]66 [/td][td]5666 [/td][td]48.84 [/td][td]77.76 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]24 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]ST Jayasuriya (SL) [/td][td]1994-2007 [/td][td]90 [/td][td]5932 [/td][td]41.48 [/td][td]65.84 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]25 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CH Gayle (WI) [/td][td]2000-2014 [/td][td]99 [/td][td]7028 [/td][td]43.11 [/td][td]60.71 [/td][td]15 [/td][td]36 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]ML Hayden (AUS) [/td][td]1994-2009 [/td][td]103 [/td][td]8625 [/td][td]50.73 [/td][td]60.1 [/td][td]30 [/td][td]29 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GC Smith (ICC/SA) [/td][td]2002-2014 [/td][td]114 [/td][td]9030 [/td][td]49.07 [/td][td]59.85 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]36 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JL Langer (AUS) [/td][td]1993-2007 [/td][td]65 [/td][td]5112 [/td][td]48.22 [/td][td]57.91 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]18 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]ME Trescothick (ENG) [/td][td]2000-2006 [/td][td]76 [/td][td]5824 [/td][td]43.78 [/td][td]54.51 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]29 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MJ Slater (AUS) [/td][td]1993-2001 [/td][td]74 [/td][td]5312 [/td][td]42.83 [/td][td]53.29 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]21 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]HH Gibbs (SA) [/td][td]1998-2008 [/td][td]68 [/td][td]5242 [/td][td]47.22 [/td][td]52.28 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]21 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GA Gooch (ENG) [/td][td]1978-1995 [/td][td]100 [/td][td]7811 [/td][td]43.88 [/td][td]49.96 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]41 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]CG Greenidge (WI) [/td][td]1974-1991 [/td][td]107 [/td][td]7488 [/td][td]45.1 [/td][td]49.1 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]34 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AJ Strauss (ENG) [/td][td]2004-2012 [/td][td]97 [/td][td]6741 [/td][td]40.85 [/td][td]49.03 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]27 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AN Cook (ENG) [/td][td]2006-2017 [/td][td]140 [/td][td]11002 [/td][td]45.84 [/td][td]46.93 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]53 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JB Hobbs (ENG) [/td][td]1908-1930 [/td][td]58 [/td][td]5130 [/td][td]56.37 [/td][td]46.65 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]27 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Haynes (WI) [/td][td]1978-1994 [/td][td]116 [/td][td]7472 [/td][td]42.45 [/td][td]44.7 [/td][td]18 [/td][td]39 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MS Atapattu (SL) [/td][td]1997-2007 [/td][td]79 [/td][td]5317 [/td][td]43.22 [/td][td]44.62 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]17 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SM Gavaskar (INDIA) [/td][td]1971-1987 [/td][td]119 [/td][td]9607 [/td][td]50.29 [/td][td]43.97 [/td][td]33 [/td][td]42 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]G Kirsten (SA) [/td][td]1993-2002 [/td][td]84 [/td][td]5726 [/td][td]41.79 [/td][td]41.61 [/td][td]14 [/td][td]28 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MA Taylor (AUS) [/td][td]1989-1999 [/td][td]104 [/td][td]7525 [/td][td]43.49 [/td][td]41.48 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]40 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]WM Lawry (AUS) [/td][td]1961-1971 [/td][td]67 [/td][td]5234 [/td][td]47.15 [/td][td]39.18 [/td][td]13 [/td][td]27 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]L Hutton (ENG) [/td][td]1937-1955 [/td][td]76 [/td][td]6721 [/td][td]56.47 [/td][td]37.76 [/td][td]19 [/td][td]31 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MA Atherton (ENG) [/td][td]1990-2001 [/td][td]108 [/td][td]7476 [/td][td]39.14 [/td][td]37.63 [/td][td]16 [/td][td]45 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]G Boycott (ENG) [/td][td]1964-1982 [/td][td]107 [/td][td]8091 [/td][td]48.16 [/td][td]35.53 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]42 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JG Wright (NZ) [/td][td]1978-1993 [/td][td]80 [/td][td]5260 [/td][td]38.11 [/td][td]35.34 [/td][td]12 [/td][td]23 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

Sehwag is only one with SR of 80+ , Warner only one in 70+ , rest are long behind.
 
LOL. If Cook is an ATG opener, then there are dozens of openers who would become ATGs.
 
R0H1T said:
You must have missed his first away tours to England, Aus & SA then, he did exceptionally well though in SA he did not open. As for Cook, check his record against SA & Aus, the best pace attacks, worse than Sehwag! Sehwag also manhandled Murali & Mendis in SL & then India as well.

Talk about not knowing your numbers :21:
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You can try to maniuplate stats , first away tests etc etc.

If you have watched Sehwag and Cook, you will know one has no feet movment which means poor against the moving ball.

But as I said Sehwag is the greatest flat track bully of all time so if there was a test on a road then I would pick Sehwag ahead of Cook. But over all Cook has the better technique for test cricket, miles ahead actually.
 
Ab Fan said:
LOL. If Cook is an ATG opener, then there are dozens of openers who would become ATGs.
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He's not even in the top 20, if you take the likes of Hobbs & Sutcliffe (pre WW2) into account :9:

Though tbf he can be best judged only when he retires, the upcoming tour of Aus might be the end of him!
 
KingKhanWC said:
You can try to maniuplate stats , first away tests etc etc.

If you have watched Sehwag and Cook, you will know one has no feet movment which means poor against the moving ball.

But as I said Sehwag is the greatest flat track bully of all time so if there was a test on a road then I would pick Sehwag ahead of Cook. But over all Cook has the better technique for test cricket, miles ahead actually.
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You can also manipulate yourself to think Cook is superior somehow btw he also has very little foot movement, sits on the back foot waiting to cut or pull.

I have watched Sehwag & he did have a good technique for the majority of his career, later on with the advent of T20 & flat wickets he became a bit too ultra aggressive & lost his touch & form in tests eventually.

In the period between 2009 & 2011 he has too many test innings striking over 100, to count. That is where he lost it, he went into T20 mode too early & too long when in fact his test game was also built upon patience.

Cook, I've seen him being demolished by Philander, Johnson, Harris then being worked over by Jadeja, Yair et al. He always fails (except on flat tracks) against great pace attacks, without fail, that;s what his legacy is! Cook never dominated pacers or spinners like Sehwag, he was at best a supporting act to the likes of KP, Root.
 
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R0H1T said:
You can also manipulate yourself to think Cook is superior somehow btw he also has very little foot movement, sits on the back foot waiting to cut or pull.

I have watched Sehwag & he did have a good technique for a majority of his career, later on with the advent of T20 & flat wickets he became a bit too ultra aggressive & lost his touch & form in tests eventually.

In the period between 2009 & 2011 he has too many test innings, striking over 100, to count. That is where he lost it, he went into T20 mode too early & too long when in fact his test game was also built upon patience.

Cook, I've seen him being demolished by Philander, Johnson, Harris then being worked over by Jadeja, Yair et al. He always fails (except on flat tracks) against great pace attacks, without fail, that;s what his legacy is!
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Sehwag averages 27 v England, 20 V NZ and 25 V SA in away tests. These are pathetic averages and prove my point, he is a flat track bully.

But I dont expect Indian fans to admit this. :)
 
KingKhanWC said:
lol Sehwag was a flat track bully, arguably the best ever. But any little swing or movement and he looked like a patheechar. :ik

Not even close, Cook is an ATG opener.
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ATG on turners. Destroyed ATG spinners, mystery spinners and everyone in between.

So not a flat track bully.

We desis shouldn't demean our own pitches.
 
R0H1T said:
He's not even in the top 20, if you take the likes of Hobbs & Sutcliffe (pre WW2) into account :9:

Though tbf he can be best judged only when he retires, the upcoming tour of Aus might be the end of him!
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I know its close between these two but neither are close enough to be called ATG.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Spinning tracks are mostly flat for the first 3 days.
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Same way seamer friendly tracks ease up a lot towards the end and aid a bit of spin only. Moreover outside Asia tracks are not minefields all the time. They offer a lot of opportunities to score runs too (depends on tracks, weather conditions).

Last point, Sehwag has played spinners amazingly well even when the tracks were turning. Galle 200 being one of the examples.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Same way seamer friendly tracks ease up a lot towards the end and aid a bit of spin only. Moreover outside Asia tracks are not minefields all the time. They offer a lot of opportunities to score runs too (depends on tracks, weather conditions).

Last point, Sehwag has played spinners amazingly well even when the tracks were turning. Galle 200 being one of the examples.
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Those kiwis green pitches- you lost the toss and you lost the match..!!!
 
Ab Fan said:
I know its close between these two but neither are close enough to be called ATG.
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No they aren;t & probably won;t be, even when Cook hangs his boots up. I can however, put them in the top 25 test openers ever, including the ones pre WW2, mainly because there have been only a handful of remarkable openers in the history of test cricket.

These 2 are definitely top 25, where you put them however is a personal choice.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Sometimes green tracks stay that way and lead to 2-3 day tests.
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That's more to do with moisture, than grass. I think you are talking about 2002 NZ tour when the avg first innings score was barely over just 100, India complained a couple of times IIRC that the groundsman was letting the pitch dry out after India were blown away by Bond, in both the tests.
 
R0H1T said:
That's more to do with moisture, than grass. I think you are talking about 2002 NZ tour when the avg first innings score was barely over just 100, India complained a couple of times IIRC that the groundsman was letting the pitch dry out after India were blown away by Bond, in both the tests.
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In general. Its something which is a case in NZ even nowadays.
 
R0H1T said:
That's more to do with moisture, than grass. I think you are talking about 2002 NZ tour when the avg first innings score was barely over just 100, India complained a couple of times IIRC that the groundsman was letting the pitch dry out after India were blown away by Bond, in both the tests.
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ICC warned NZCA.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Same way seamer friendly tracks ease up a lot towards the end and aid a bit of spin only. Moreover outside Asia tracks are not minefields all the time. They offer a lot of opportunities to score runs too (depends on tracks, weather conditions).

Last point, Sehwag has played spinners amazingly well even when the tracks were turning. Galle 200 being one of the examples.
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Tracks or conditions which see swing or seam early on, later see uneven bounce on most occasions. Flat tracks stay flat for a 3 days then turn later on. Sure in some places it turns from day one.

You're right Sehwag was a good player of spin, I wont deny this but being a good player of spin isn't the main skill required for a test opener.
 
R0H1T said:
That's more to do with moisture, than grass. I think you are talking about 2002 NZ tour when the avg first innings score was barely over just 100, India complained a couple of times IIRC that the groundsman was letting the pitch dry out after India were blown away by Bond, in both the tests.
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Yes. I am including everything.

No moisture and a green track will become a patta (assuming weather conditions don't aid swing in the air).

KingKhanWC said:
Tracks or conditions which see swing or seam early on, later see uneven bounce on most occasions. Flat tracks stay flat for a 3 days then turn later on. Sure in some places it turns from day one.

You're right Sehwag was a good player of spin, I wont deny this but being a good player of spin isn't the main skill required for a test opener.
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It is in Asia. Or else Eng, Aus, SA and NZ openers should be making hay in Asia but most of them don't.

Moreover Sehwag has a 195 in Melbourne 2003, played a match saving innings in Sydney 2008 and some decent knocks here and there outside Asia.

He ain't no flat track bully. ATG against spin, poor against swing & seam, good enough against bounce.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Yes. I am including everything.

No moisture and a green track will become a patta (assuming weather conditions don't aid swing in the air).



It is in Asia. Or else Eng, Aus, SA and NZ openers should be making hay in Asia but most of them don't.

Moreover Sehwag has a 195 in Melbourne 2003, played a match saving innings in Sydney 2008 and some decent knocks here and there outside Asia.

He ain't no flat track bully. ATG against spin, poor against swing & seam, good enough against bounce.
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The 195 he scored , if I can recall from memory, he was dropped 2/3 times at least and also hit hard on the helmet. Sure it doesn't take away the score from the record books but it was a fortunate innings.

I believe he was a flat track bully but I am happy to agree to disagree :)
 
Sehwag .In an all time XI ,openers spot -gavaskar - reserved.
Second spot either sehwag or hayden depending on preference.
On his day can destroy any bowler on any pitch.And the most fearsome destroyer of spin bowling i have ever seen.Crushed murali,herath and mendis in SL when whole indian batting was struggling.Ended saqlain's career in multan.His motto was 'spinner's shouldn't bowl'.:viru

Difference between sehwag and cook is sehwag will score you runs at a rate that will make it easy to win the match.And he will demoralize the bowling to an extent that it becomes easy for other batsmen.
 
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R0H1T said:
He's not even in the top 20, if you take the likes of Hobbs & Sutcliffe (pre WW2) into account :9:

Though tbf he can be best judged only when he retires, the upcoming tour of Aus might be the end of him!
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Can you name some of those 20 openers who are better than Cook?
 
Both of them are overrated.

An opener's job is to perform well Vs world class quicks and both are miserable in that regard.

Overall Cook wins maybe because of longevity.
 
Alistair Cook wins this one by a mile. Sehwag was a FTB, absolutely horrendous against the moving ball and an opener who cannot see out the new ball is like a spinner who cannot spin the ball.

Laughable that a couple of people are calling Cook an ATG, lol. He's nowhere near and has never been in the top three test batsmen in the world at any point in his career.
 
Ted123 said:
Both of them are overrated.

An opener's job is to perform well Vs world class quicks and both are miserable in that regard.

Overall Cook wins maybe because of longevity.
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Nah, statement is true for Cook, but not for Sehwag. He was bad in certain conditions, but he scored heavily against gun pace bowlers when conditions didn't suite those bowlers. Some examples,

319 against Steyn, Ntini and Morkel
309 against Akhtar
155 against McGrath & Gillespie
254 against Akhtar
109 against Steyn & Morkel
165 against Steyn &b Morkel
195 against Lee
 
SLcric123 said:
Can you name some of those 20 openers who are better than Cook?
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I don't remember all the names atm but let me see ~

Trumper, Ponsford, Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, Boycs, Gavaskar, Fredericks, Greenidge, Haynes, Hanif, Taylor, Gooch, Gavaskar, Smith, Hayden, Langer, Athers, Simpson, Kirsten et al just to name a few.

I'm sure I must have missed quite a few, but Cook's ability to face the wicked moving ball or pace demons is well below many batters & all of the above openers!
 
Cook is an ATG comfortably but Sehwag wins this battle. Almost 3 triples, the ability to dominate like no other and his stats are easy reasons for him being the better bat here.
 
R0H1T said:
I don't remember all the names atm but let me see ~

Trumper, Ponsford, Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, Boycs, Gavaskar, Fredericks, Greenidge, Haynes, Hanif, Taylor, Gooch, Gavaskar, Smith, Hayden, Langer, Athers, Simpson, Kirsten et al just to name a few.

I'm sure I must have missed quite a few, but Cook's ability to face the wicked moving ball or pace demons is well below many batters & all of the above openers!
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Athers is not better than cook
 
R0H1T said:
I don't remember all the names atm but let me see ~

Trumper, Ponsford, Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hutton, Boycs, Gavaskar, Fredericks, Greenidge, Haynes, Hanif, Taylor, Gooch, Gavaskar, Smith, Hayden, Langer, Athers, Simpson, Kirsten et al just to name a few.

I'm sure I must have missed quite a few, but Cook's ability to face the wicked moving ball or pace demons is well below many batters & all of the above openers!
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Good list. Among these I would argue Cook has surpassed Langer(poor in Asia), Athers( gutsy player but 37 AVG doesn't speak much of his ability to dominate), Haynes( second to Greenidge in his own team) and Hanif.

Still we can assume around 15 opening batsmen ahead of him and 10 of them are non ATGs.
 
ToeCrusher2 said:
Athers is not better than cook
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I'd say he is, he faced the best of Wambrose, Donald, Pollock, WW, Mcgrath & did reasonably well against them. That decade was the worst for batting anytime since WW2 IIRC, Cook on the other hand has failed consistently against the likes of SA/Aus pace attacks, except just one series down under.
 
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R0H1T said:
I'd say he is, he faced the best of Wambrose, Donald, Pollock, WW, Mcgrath & did reasonably well against them. That decade was the worst for batting anytime since WW2 IIRC, Cook on the other hand has failed consistently against the likes of SA/Aus pace attacks, except just one series down under.
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lol mcgrath made him his bunny, roasted him and then ate him for dinner :yk

An average of less than 40 suggests he didn't do reasonably against those bowlers and an average in the 20s in India suggests that he didn't even do well against the spinners, calling athers better than cook is the biggest insult cook has ever received
 
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ToeCrusher2 said:
lol mcgrath made him his bunny, roasted him and then ate him for dinner :yk

An average of less than 40 suggests he didn't do reasonably against those bowlers and an average in the 20s in India suggests that he didn't even do well against the spinners, calling athers better than cook is the biggest insult cook has ever received
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You're free to disagree, but Athers' epic battles against Donald are legendary. When was the last time Cook won such a battle against an opposition seamer on non flat tracks btw Cook also avg just 37 against SA/Aus & only 30 when you take out his 700 odd in the 2010/11 Ashes?

Not to mention that fact that pitches in those days were really tricky, even in Aus, Mike also played just one series in India IIRC when Eng were blanked 3 zip.

He also played in series such as 2000 wisden trophy, when two bowlers avg 12 something & picked up close to 50 wickets between them.
 
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R0H1T said:
You're free to disagree, but Athers' epic battles against Donald are legendary. When was the last time Cook won such a battle against an opposition seamer on non flat tracks btw Cook also avg just 37 against SA/Aus & only 30 when you take out his 700 odd in the 2010/11 Ashes?

Not to mention that fact that pitches in those days were really tricky, even in Aus, Mike also played just one series in India IIRC when Eng were blanked 3 zip.

He also played in series such as 2000 wisden trophy, when two bowlers avg 12 something & picked up close to 50 wickets between them.
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Athers is an abomination to opening, this is a fact. The dude's average is higher than his strike rate :)))

Athers was nothing more than a glorified nightwatchman, his strike rate was 35 away from home :)))

He never scored a double century.

He averages 28 against Mcgrath, Ambrose, walsh and akram, you call that doing reasonable well :)))

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...er_involve=2101;template=results;type=batting

Cook is 10 tiers above athers, stop insulting cook
 
Those who rate athers based on 2-3 good innings he played in his career have fallen to the english propaganda. People should remember that if a mediocre cricketer keeps getting picked, he'll have a few good days in his career, that doesn't mean he's a good cricketer. Even Ishant Sharma has had great days, he made ponting his bunny on australian flat pattas, he won us a test match in England, now if Ishant was an English cricketer, they would hype him based on a few great spells he's had in his career and apologists will defend his shortcomings by saying that he bowled in the most batting friendly era so his stats were ruined :yk

A batting average of 37 is pathetic, no matter which era you are from
 
Atherton is an unbelievably overrated batsman. He had a massive technical flaw of getting squared up to good length deliveries on off stump. Thoroughly mediocre batsman who has benefitted immensely from the 'all 90s players were better' syndrome.
 
Buffet said:
Nah, statement is true for Cook, but not for Sehwag. He was bad in certain conditions, but he scored heavily against gun pace bowlers when conditions didn't suite those bowlers. Some examples,

319 against Steyn, Ntini and Morkel
309 against Akhtar
155 against McGrath & Gillespie
254 against Akhtar
109 against Steyn & Morkel
165 against Steyn &b Morkel
195 against Lee
Click to expand...

Exactly. Sehwag was weak against swing and seam in overseas conditions but not weak against great seam/fast bowling in general. He dominated some great bowlers in Asia.
 
ToeCrusher2 said:
Athers is an abomination to opening, this is a fact. The dude's average is higher than his strike rate :)))

Athers was nothing more than a glorified nightwatchman, his strike rate was 35 away from home :)))

He never scored a double century.

He averages 28 against Mcgrath, Ambrose, walsh and akram, you call that doing reasonable well :)))

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...er_involve=2101;template=results;type=batting

Cook is 10 tiers above athers, stop insulting cook
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This is the decade in which no openers avg above 40, from a team.

www.stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Then the avg of openers against the best pace attacks ~ www.stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

England's last decade of openers against the best pace attack ~
www.stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin...7;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

The last decade as a whole ~
www.stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin...7;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Did Cook really do better than Athers, putting raw numbers aside? Note the keyword, pace.
 
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Cuts_and_cuts_hard said:
Atherton is an unbelievably overrated batsman. He had a massive technical flaw of getting squared up to good length deliveries on off stump. Thoroughly mediocre batsman who has benefitted immensely from the 'all 90s players were better' syndrome.
Click to expand...

Fair to say that he wouldn't be hyped if he wasn't English.

The Aakash Chopra of the 1990s.
 
R0H1T said:
This is the decade in which no openers avg above 40, from a team.

stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;orderby=runs;spanmax1=1+Oct+2000;spanmin1=1+Oct+1990;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Then the avg of openers against the best pace attacks ~ stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=7;orderby=runs;spanmax1=1+Oct+2000;spanmin1=1+Oct+1990;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

England's last decade of openers against the best pace attack ~
stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;opposition=2;opposition=3;orderby=runs;spanmax1=1+Oct+2017;spanmin1=1+Oct+2007;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

The last decade as a whole ~
stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?batting_positionmax1=2;batting_positionval1=batting_position;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=team;orderby=runs;spanmax1=1+Oct+2017;spanmin1=1+Oct+2007;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Did Cook really do better than Athers, putting raw numbers aside?
Click to expand...

First of all your links don't work, fix them

2ndly we are comparing cook to athers, 90s was the toughest era for batting and athers batted like a tailender. Just because athers batted in a more bowling friendly era doesn't automatically make him better than cook. Athers averaged 28 against those great bowlers, so he failed completely in that era. Also his strike rate of 35 isn't going to win you any matches.

Athers was a nightwatchman, cook is one of the top openers of his era #FACT
 
Sehwag on English tracks is an insult to world opener :jimmy

Cook in India smashed 'em on his debut and won a series in India as well. In UAE he was not bad as well.

So in this regard, Cook > daylight > Sehwag.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ToeCrusher2 said:
First of all your links don't work, fix them

2ndly we are comparing cook to athers, 90s was the toughest era for batting and athers batted like a tailender. Just because athers batted in a more bowling friendly era doesn't automatically make him better than cook. Athers averaged 28 against those great bowlers, so he failed completely in that era. Also his strike rate of 35 isn't going to win you any matches.

Athers was a nightwatchman, cook is one of the top openers of his era #FACT
Click to expand...
Check again.

In his era I can name 3 better openers than him, depending on whether you think these openers belong in the same era.

Cook also didn't win many matches on his own, that in a top 3 test team with many exceptional batters at one time. Just because Athers had a bad S/R doesn't make Cook 10x better than him, back in the 90's openers were supposed to see off the new ball, no T20 & LO players striking above 100 either, so strokeplay was limited.
 
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R0H1T said:
This is the decade in which no openers avg above 40, from a team.

www.stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Then the avg of openers against the best pace attacks ~ www.stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin...0;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

England's last decade of openers against the best pace attack ~
www.stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin...7;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

The last decade as a whole ~
www.stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engin...7;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Did Cook really do better than Athers, putting raw numbers aside? Note the keyword, pace.
Click to expand...

Graham Gooch averaged 51 between 1990-95 and was the best opening batsmen of that decade with a number of hundreds coming Vs genuine pace bowling attack.

Atherton is definitely overrated . He is no Aakash Chopra but Cook would have managed close to 40 AVG if he played in that era.
 
R0H1T said:
Check again.

In his era I can name 3 better openers than him, depending on whether you think these openers belong in the same era.

Cook also didn't win many matches on his own, that in a top 3 test team with many exceptional batters at one time. Just because Athers had a bad S/R doesn't make Cook 10x better than him, back in the 90's openers were supposed to see off the new ball, no T20 & LO players striking above 100 either, so strokeplay was limited.
Click to expand...

I watched cricket in the 90s too, we all know what the level of cricket was back then. But People have a habbit of exaggerating everything 10 folds to defend certain players. There weren't many great openers in the 90s and only 3 batsmen averaged above 50, so yeah it was the toughest era to bat, but that doesn't mean every batsman from that era automatically becomes better than the current players.

The argument would have worked if athers actually did decently in that era but he didn't. He was beyond pathetic, a strike rate of 35 was unacceptable even then. Saying there weren't many good openers in the athers era while there are 2-3 openers better than cook in his era so it makes him better than cook is a fallacy.

Athers would have been long forgotten if he played for anyother country, for example does anyone remember attapatu?
Either you are incredibly biased against cook or you have fallen to the english propaganda who make greats out of their cricketers through media instead of perfomance
 
ToeCrusher2 said:
I watched cricket in the 90s too, we all know what the level of cricket was back then. But People have a habbit of exaggerating everything 10 folds to defend certain players. There weren't many great openers in the 90s and only 3 batsmen averaged above 50, so yeah it was the toughest era to bat, but that doesn't mean every batsman from that era automatically becomes better than the current players.

The argument would have worked if athers actually did decently in that era but he didn't. He was beyond pathetic, a strike rate of 35 was unacceptable even then. Saying there weren't many good openers in the athers era while there are 2-3 openers better than cook in his era so it makes him better than cook is a fallacy.

Athers would have been long forgotten if he played for anyother country, for example does anyone remember attapatu?
Either you are incredibly biased against cook or you have fallen to the english propaganda who make greats out of their cricketers through media instead of perfomance
Click to expand...

Agreed. Atherton was just a decent opener and might have scored 2-3 100s against ATG pace attack out of 50 games playing against them. This doesn't mean he is better than some of this era's top players.

Attapattu did well for us and was overall a fine player.
 
Atherton is very underrated but Cook is clearly better. Some people do take nostalgia to the next level. One day someone will claim that Kaluwitharana was a better ODI opener than Dilshan, since he was blasting bowlers in the 90's.
 
Prime Sehwag was one of the most destructive batsmen to play Tests.

But once out of form, Sehwag was a very easy wicket, Cook even when out of form, can grind out some runs and occupy the crease. Overall, Cook is a slightly better batsmen. But peak Sehwag is one of the best openers of all time.
 
SLcric123 said:
Who are the top 5 English opening batsmen according to you?
Click to expand...

Hobbs
Hutton
Sutcliffe
Gooch
Boycott

However, Cook is their best opener since Gooch and has surpassed Atherton, Tescrothik, Vaughan and Strauss who were also good players.
 
So many guys in history that can bat like Cook. On a good day M Vijay can do the same. Even Mudassar Nazar could do the same. There is only one who can bat like Sehwag which is himself. Having the mindset of thrashing three fours in the 2nd over of a test match
 
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