Chrish
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2015
- Runs
- 4,827
- Post of the Week
- 1
Richards is arguably second best batsman after Bradman.
-
Contact the PP Team
Viv Richards vs Sunil Gavaskar vs Greg Chappell - The better Test player?
- Thread starter Ab Fan
- Start date
Chrish
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2015
- Runs
- 4,827
- Post of the Week
- 1
Chappell’s batting look so aesthetically pleasing! Must have been a joy to watch
Robert
Test Star
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2007
- Runs
- 37,604
- Post of the Week
- 1
Yeah, Chandra got Sir Viv a few times in his beginning and Qadir near his end after his eyes had gone.
Lillee had a bit of success against him too. DK raised himself against the real top batters. There is YouTube footage of him bowling Sir Viv with a fast off-break, last ball of the day, reducing WI to 10-4 or something. That would have been something to watch - two of the ultimate champions of history locking horns.
As far as I understand it, cricket is a game of number of runs scored. If a team scores more runs it wins. So logically, a batsman should "demoralize", "strike terror like a bomber raiding an airbase", "like a shark speeding towards a tuna", "a deer in the headlights", "Mike Tyson getting ready to deliver an upper cut", "the headmistress approaching a truant boy", "a hawk swooping down on a pigeon", "a boa constrictor wrapping itself around its prey", "a lumberjack approaching a tree with his chainsaw", "like a PPer arguing without facts", "like Thanksgiving in a turkey's dreams"... well, you get the idea I think, a bowler who believes that the batsman is going to score more runs than the competition.
Gavaskar not only scored more runs than Richards at a higher average, had more longevity, faced better bowling and as an opener protected batsmen lower down the order pushing India to the #1 Test position in the early 1970s at a time no subcontinental team could dream of such a feat, that Richards simply is so far behind that he should never be mentioned in the same sentence as Gavaskar.
[MENTION=134300]Tusker[/MENTION] [MENTION=146612]BlackShadow[/MENTION] [MENTION=76058]cricketjoshila[/MENTION] [MENTION=132715]Varun[/MENTION] [MENTION=141520]troodon[/MENTION] [MENTION=143530]Swashbuckler[/MENTION] [MENTION=133315]Hitman[/MENTION]
Last edited:
charlie007
Tape Ball Captain
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2017
- Runs
- 1,228
Viv is overrated in Tests, esp here on PP. I have watched his career live and while he was very good, people here have put him on a pedestal higher than he himself would ever put himself.
There is no doubt he was a bully and bowlers by instinct were on the defensive bowling at him, but to call him some sort of a craftsman and technician with the bat is bizarre. He could not hold his own against good spin unless the wicket was totally flat, and that was because he did not have a good defensive technique. His game was based on more hand-eye coordination in the mold of Sehwag (not comparing batsmen here, just their style).
But to each his own, everyone is entitled to their opinion just like I am.
There is no doubt he was a bully and bowlers by instinct were on the defensive bowling at him, but to call him some sort of a craftsman and technician with the bat is bizarre. He could not hold his own against good spin unless the wicket was totally flat, and that was because he did not have a good defensive technique. His game was based on more hand-eye coordination in the mold of Sehwag (not comparing batsmen here, just their style).
But to each his own, everyone is entitled to their opinion just like I am.
Chrish
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2015
- Runs
- 4,827
- Post of the Week
- 1
Viv would have scored more runs than Lara had he played in a similarly weak team. With all the great players around him, perhaps he didn’t focus the way he should have. His will to dominate the bowlers regardless of the situation sometimes got better of him.
He could have ground out and averaged in 60s but then what fun would that be? Cricket history would have been much poorer if Viv had taken the “professional approach”.
He could have ground out and averaged in 60s but then what fun would that be? Cricket history would have been much poorer if Viv had taken the “professional approach”.
Last edited:
Chrish
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2015
- Runs
- 4,827
- Post of the Week
- 1
Pakistani wickets were flat by all accounts to nullify the Lillie factor..
Robert
Test Star
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2007
- Runs
- 37,604
- Post of the Week
- 1
He was only there for three tests. PCB created three Bunsens.
Robert
Test Star
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2007
- Runs
- 37,604
- Post of the Week
- 1
I suppose it could appear that way if you look at the numbers only. If you didn’t see these players and ignore the informed opinion of their peers then numbers alone are what you are left with. You are rewriting a history I don’t think you remember based on a shallow and limited method.
That’s up to you. I wish you well. But try reading books - I guarantee that you will begin to enjoy deeper richness of understanding and enjoyment.
Claiming a "deeper richness of understanding" is the last refuge of those who do not have the facts to back their arguments. My post was based on numbers and facts such as batting position, quality of opposition bowling etc.
Swashbuckler
First Class Captain
- Joined
- May 19, 2017
- Runs
- 4,672
- Post of the Week
- 3
Hahahahahah, savage. I actually don't mind a well meaning, civil, logical, respectful, data driven debate with some of the nostalgic posters here but they run away, never to respond when I challenge their opinions with facts. Harsh called Greg Chappell a master of subcontinental conditions, I presented him with cold hard facts and waited for his response, reminded him a couple of times, but nothing, nada.
All we get in response are more of those inane metaphors. I can respond with my own like "Gavaskar was like a Shaolin monk practising his 5 fundamental stances when confronted by the doorways of hell", "Gavaskar's will was undaunted, immovable like the gargantuan Kanchenjunga" and all that tosh. I choose not to go down that path, these flowery words and figurative expressions do their best to hide the glaring gaps in the actual argument.
Harsh Thakor
First Class Star
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2012
- Runs
- 3,521
- Post of the Week
- 2
235 at Faisalabad facing Imran at his fastest.56 and 57 at Lahore in final test.Never played in India.Still averaged around 76 in Pakistan which is remarkable.
Hitman
Senior T20I Player
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2013
- Runs
- 18,149
It also comes down to people you like watching. I'm not saying I'd pick Mark Waugh over Steve Waugh simply because I loved watching the format play, because the gulf in their numbers are so huge. But when it comes to people with pretty similar numbers, I would personally pick the player I love watching most.
Not arguing who was better between Viv and Sunny, but the thing that really goes in Viv's favor is that he completely revolutionized batting and was 30-35 years ahead of his time. People loved watching him play. But then again, you cannot strike off the factors in Sunny's favor that has been previously mentioned in this thread just because of Viv's superiority in terms of demolishing attacks. Both have different factors going in their favor. Sunny played for a weak team, had to face the West Indian bowlers whom Viv didn't have to play against, opened the innings. Those are the points that goes in favor of Sunny, and no one can discount them.
Not arguing who was better between Viv and Sunny, but the thing that really goes in Viv's favor is that he completely revolutionized batting and was 30-35 years ahead of his time. People loved watching him play. But then again, you cannot strike off the factors in Sunny's favor that has been previously mentioned in this thread just because of Viv's superiority in terms of demolishing attacks. Both have different factors going in their favor. Sunny played for a weak team, had to face the West Indian bowlers whom Viv didn't have to play against, opened the innings. Those are the points that goes in favor of Sunny, and no one can discount them.
Last edited:
Harsh Thakor
First Class Star
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2012
- Runs
- 3,521
- Post of the Week
- 2
In test cricket Viv Richards has been the greater match-winner with his incredible strike rate.Viv has a much better record facing Dennis Lillee ,who was the best paceman of his time . On bouncy Australian tracks,Viv overshadowed every batsmen.Lillee rated him the best he ever bowled to as well as Imran and Wasim.Botham ranked him the bets he ever saw and so did Border,Willis etc.
Comparing them is like rating chalk and cheese .Both were very different types of players.Greg Chappell was like both of them blended into one.To me no great after the Don has equalled Viv Richards from 1976-80.Averaging 86.2 in 1sy yaer of WSC facing greats like Lillee and averaging 118.82 in England in 1976.
I dont deny Gavaskar was a very great batsmen arguably in the top 5-10 of all time and amongst the 3 best openers ever.However it was Viv who turned the complexion of games more.It could even go down to a draw if you add WSC records.No doubt he broke records facing the greatest bowling attacks and there is a case for his being 2nd to only Bradman.However he did not posess the artistry or flamboyance of stars like Lara or Sobers .
Regarding Greg Chappell on the fast wickets and against great pace statistically he was the best.Including WSC supertests this to me is correct.Greg topped aggregate in WSC cricket,averaging more than Viv.Had best scores of 246 and 174 and averaged 69 in West Indies with 3 centuries in 1979.However Greg did not open the batting and was not at his best against the bouncing delivery.
Robert
Test Star
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2007
- Runs
- 37,604
- Post of the Week
- 1
Your facts are a good beginning to understanding but two dimensional - they lack the third dimension of context, which being there at the time and reading various different perspectives will give you.
Of course you will reject this because you are standing right in front of a wall - you can’t see the whole house. So the house does not exist in your mind because it can’t be perceived by you.
Step back from the wall and see the whole thing. It may take twenty years, but one day you will be reading a youngster tell you that Kohli is overrated, based on his reading of numbers alone. Then you will get my point.
lol.
Who won't have better chances to be a match winner in tests, if you have WI famed pace quartet at your disposal especially when you don't have to face them? And what bowling lineup did Sunny had during most of his career?
Last edited:
Swashbuckler
First Class Captain
- Joined
- May 19, 2017
- Runs
- 4,672
- Post of the Week
- 3
Thanks for responding but I had already addressed that in an earlier post. Quoted relevant bits above.
Chappell failed miserably in the only test against Pak which was a typical turning SC wicket.
His 235 came in a match where Australia scored 617 followed by Pakistan's response of 382/2. What does such a match prove? How does it matter what Chappell did against Imran in that pancake pitch? How does it cement his credentials against spin bowling of the SC?
His 56 and 57 in the final test again was on a flat pitch where 3 innings were played, 400+ runs scored in each one of them and not once was a side dismissed.
His average of 76 is misleading because in the only proper SC wicket he failed and did stats boosting in 2 dead pitches. He never set foot in India and never returned to play in Pakistan, he has no credentials in Asia. I am sure no Asian batsman will be rated as ATG if he were to have a similar tryst with SENA countries like the Aussie in SC. Standards are different for our players and non Asian superstars.
Swashbuckler
First Class Captain
- Joined
- May 19, 2017
- Runs
- 4,672
- Post of the Week
- 3
You are free to rate Viv as a greater test batsman, that is not my point of contention. Rather it is the line of argument you choose to make him look like someone greater than what he was and Sunny as someone lesser than what he deserves.
Why does SR matter in test cricket? I don't see Sehwag get extra marks by pundits for having 80+ SR, or for that matter Kapil or Gilchrist. Besides being in such a great team Viv had license to play at a high SR, they hardly ever chased a game, instead invariably dominating ruthlessly. Sunny playing for a weaker team had to be extra cautious, India was a team that had a much lower ceiling than WI. We played for draws against better opponents while WI lorded over inferior units. Put the same Sunny in an ATG team and he would shine as a matchwinner, great players adapt their playing style to their environment and Sunny was a great.
Viv may have played Lillee better but was Lillee the only ATG bowler of his time? Sunny would have handled a few better than Viv and Chappell a few better than the former two. That is the way cricket works, every player has a nemesis and a convenient opponent. Again coming to peer reviews it is a dicey subject. You will get plenty of players who rated XYZ above Viv. Sobers and Wasim rated Sunny as the best, I have seen those videos. Similarly I am sure there will be interviews by ex players calling Barry Richards or Greg Chappell the best of that era. All that is subjective.
There is likewise enough written material that places Sunny on a very high pedestal due to the fact that he played against the WI fast bowlers. A fact that you doggedly refuse to address and yet have the gall to lecture others on lacking perspective.
I repeat again Sunny and Kapil are the only 2 players who scored run-a-ball test hundreds against WI . Viv never could manage that against those bowlers in county or domestic cricket.
[MENTION=142162]Napa[/MENTION]
Epic post . Really enjoyed those cheesy metaphors ... "shark speeding towards tuna" ... Brilliant
Gavaskar's context (playing for a team with weak bowlers, protecting other batsmen, pushing India to the #1 ranking) makes his record even more superior to Richards than mere numbers suggest.
Your claim about Richard's superiority based on context is merely imaginary unless you have something to back it up. Not just what some bowler said (there are many bowlers) but something more convincing.
As for reading books, I have read quite a few in my time.
"Gavaskar was like a Shaolin monk practising his 5 fundamental stances when confronted by the doorways of hell"... legendary!!!
Yeah, Richards scored faster, but he also got out faster.
Last edited:
The contribution an opener makes by protecting later batsmen cannot be underestimated. If we had an opener who was half the opener Gavaskar was, we would have won the SA and England series. Recent scores of 19/3 or 40/4 are telling. Incredibly, Gavaskar actually had a higher average outside Asia than he did in Asia. Richards in comparison averages 3 less in Asia compared to his overall average.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...art;template=results;type=batting;view=series
charlie007
Tape Ball Captain
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2017
- Runs
- 1,228
I would totally discount the WSC cricket as it was unauthorized and a rebel league! Gavaskar did not even play there so you have no comparison data available. Let's stick to Test cricket and leave your poetry and prose aside when doing comparisons.
You are comparing one person who was good against pace and poor against spin to another who was a master of playing the greatest fast attack in the world and great at playing spin. Richard played spin off the pitch, and Gavaskar played it right off of the hand. Sehwag's strike rate is way higher than Tendulkar's, but that does not make him better than Tendulkar.
As far as being a greater match winner is concerned, WI were winners not because Richards scored a quick-fire 50, it was because their fearsome pace bowlers ran through the opposition. On the contrary, India did not lose many more matches because Gavaskar saved them by staying at the wicket and putting a price on his wicket.
Gavaskar taking India to the #1 ranking in the early-mid 1970s was an incredible achievement.
Everyone is free to rate anyone they like ... however when it comes to actually justifying that opinion with facts, stats and logic the old ERA fanatics almost always run into a deadend generally unable to substantiate their claims and end up running away tail between legs.
Gavaskar was <i>inarguably</i> a far better batsman than Richards.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 69,118
- Post of the Week
- 1
After hundreds of posts in this thread no poster has been able to logically conclude if Viv Richards was even slightly better than Gavaskar in tests let alone the hyperbole about him being in a league of his own.
On the other hand comments in favour of Gavaskar have been more logical.
At the end of the day Gavaskar scored more runs, occupied the crease for longer durations, hit more knocks with high impact value, chased better all while being a test opener and having relatively faced better overall bowling given he missed out on playing Indian bowlers while Viv never got to face his own teammates who were at the time by some distance the most frightening bowling nation on the planet.
Gavaskar making more ATG XIs as an opener than Viv as a middle order batsman has also been another big indicator of Gavaskar’s overall prominent stature in cricket.
Tendulkar and Lara both beat Viv in the middle order at #4 and #5.
With 3 being taken by Bradman he is mostly seen fighting for #6.
Gavaskar mostly steals the opening spot without much of a debate. He’s just clearly way better at what he did than Viv.
It’s all about test cricket though keep in mind.
In ODIs and T20s Viv was PHENOMENAL.
On the other hand comments in favour of Gavaskar have been more logical.
At the end of the day Gavaskar scored more runs, occupied the crease for longer durations, hit more knocks with high impact value, chased better all while being a test opener and having relatively faced better overall bowling given he missed out on playing Indian bowlers while Viv never got to face his own teammates who were at the time by some distance the most frightening bowling nation on the planet.
Gavaskar making more ATG XIs as an opener than Viv as a middle order batsman has also been another big indicator of Gavaskar’s overall prominent stature in cricket.
Tendulkar and Lara both beat Viv in the middle order at #4 and #5.
With 3 being taken by Bradman he is mostly seen fighting for #6.
Gavaskar mostly steals the opening spot without much of a debate. He’s just clearly way better at what he did than Viv.
It’s all about test cricket though keep in mind.
In ODIs and T20s Viv was PHENOMENAL.
Chrish
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2015
- Runs
- 4,827
- Post of the Week
- 1
Your opinion unsurprisingly differs from every single cricket fan who saw these two great men in action..
Can you share with us the results from your survey of those fans?
Chrish
First Class Captain
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2015
- Runs
- 4,827
- Post of the Week
- 1
I took a comprehensive survey of the most intelligent people on the planet asking whether your survey was accurate, and the results came in:
Accurate 0%
Inaccurate 100%
Yup and I just reconfirmed this.
I did another survey asking the most intelligent in the world "Does Tusker conduct accurate surveys?" and the results were:
He does: 100%
He doesn't: 0%
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
** !! Even statically great man fared as good as any post war great
Really ??? Even statically Viv fared better then him both in 1970's and 80s; Vivy avg 58 in 1970's best among all of who scored over 2500 runs in decade and over 8 test tons..,,not including his Packer tests which will make Sample size even more decent and he still avg more then all his great peers. Gavaskar plundered some really **** weak teams during Packer yrs..
In 80s Gavaskar avg 45 (1980 to 1987) comparing to Viv's 51 (1980 to 1987) and even 49.75 throughout 80s...
Really ??? Even statically Viv fared better then him both in 1970's and 80s; Vivy avg 58 in 1970's best among all of who scored over 2500 runs in decade and over 8 test tons..,,not including his Packer tests which will make Sample size even more decent and he still avg more then all his great peers. Gavaskar plundered some really **** weak teams during Packer yrs..
In 80s Gavaskar avg 45 (1980 to 1987) comparing to Viv's 51 (1980 to 1987) and even 49.75 throughout 80s...
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
Thats because Viv dragged himself a bit longer then both of these 2; Till there age around when Greg retired (34-35) Viv had slightly better test avg of 54; and at age when Sunny retired around 36; Viv test average was 53.09 when he was 37..
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
Errr...****** Sunil never faced pair of Lillee & Thomson in test cricket which Viv had to & did well against the pair; even at their fastest...
Indian spin attack was brilliant well around 76; when Chandra and Bedi plundered 40 scalps between them and Viv played two master knocks on turning pitch of Trinidad in second & third game accounting half of Windies run..130 out of 240 and 177 out of 355 ..
Some people love to talk..
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
Viv didnt lost on many all time XI; most players who saw him bat slot him at 3; he made as many XI as Gavaskar & perhaps even more
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
He had many decent players around him like Vishy, Vengserkar, Amarnath but mostly Indians associate game with patriotichood & Viv avg in Asia is brilliant considering patriotic umpires of here.
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
Hang on Viv underachieved ???Joke of century still was rated as 3rd greatest test batter ever; Even statically Vivy fared and avg better then him in both 1970s and 80s not even taking impact of great man's in consideration..Even Viv avg 50+ away from home better then his home record, played 40 innings fewer; his run progression is well up there with bests; For half of his test carrer he avg over 60 !!!
Untill he decided to hang on for too long had he retired at age of Gavaskar & Chappell he avged better then them..
Fact is despite that style he maintained avg better then his peers speaks volume about Viv's skill with bat in hand
His stats across 4 innings are awesome lowesr avg of 48; Yes he underachieved indeed
Untill he decided to hang on for too long had he retired at age of Gavaskar & Chappell he avged better then them..
Fact is despite that style he maintained avg better then his peers speaks volume about Viv's skill with bat in hand
His stats across 4 innings are awesome lowesr avg of 48; Yes he underachieved indeed
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
He had many decent players around him like Vishy, Vengserkar, Amarnath but mostly Indians associate game with patriotichood & Viv avg in Asia is brilliant considering patriotic umpires of here.
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
Vanburn Holder 
..,,
Sobbers was 37 year old men by then; It was terrible Windies attack which he plundeded; Its becauze of this overglorified myths actualy achiever who put that attack to sword like Gooch never got their due...Only time he faced full strength attack he avg 28 in series
..,,Sobbers was 37 year old men by then; It was terrible Windies attack which he plundeded; Its becauze of this overglorified myths actualy achiever who put that attack to sword like Gooch never got their due...Only time he faced full strength attack he avg 28 in series
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
He didnt hit God mode for 2 years he hit it for 8 years between 1976 to 1982 or 83 he avg 67 plundering close to 5k test runs; this is most dominant pomp of long sample size after incomparable Bradman..
He didn't avg 45 for 15 years; this thread is full of hatered; Even in his last 15 years 1976 to 1991 he avg 53 added by fact he dragged himself a bit & spoiled his stats; He avg better then Gavaskar till his age around 37 (53.09)..In any case Viv fared better then him in both 70s & 80s avg higher in 70s 58 to 55 and 50 to 45 in 80s..
Easy to belite great men but still was rates 3rs greatest test batter ever
He didn't avg 45 for 15 years; this thread is full of hatered; Even in his last 15 years 1976 to 1991 he avg 53 added by fact he dragged himself a bit & spoiled his stats; He avg better then Gavaskar till his age around 37 (53.09)..In any case Viv fared better then him in both 70s & 80s avg higher in 70s 58 to 55 and 50 to 45 in 80s..
Easy to belite great men but still was rates 3rs greatest test batter ever
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
Just to add missery even Viv avg more away from home and Sunny never faces Lille & Thommo pair in tests either..
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
He didnt hit God mode for 2 years he hit it for 8 years between 1976 to 1982 or 83 he avg 67 plundering close to 5k test runs; this is most dominant pomp of long sample size after incomparable Bradman..
He didn't avg 45 for 15 years; this thread is full of hatered; Even in his last 15 years 1976 to 1991 he avg 53 added by fact he dragged himself a bit & spoiled his stats; He avg better then Gavaskar till his age around 37 (53.09)..In any case Viv fared better then him in both 70s & 80s avg higher in 70s 58 to 55 and 50 to 45 in 80s..
Easy to belite great men but still was rates 3rs greatest test batter ever
He didn't avg 45 for 15 years; this thread is full of hatered; Even in his last 15 years 1976 to 1991 he avg 53 added by fact he dragged himself a bit & spoiled his stats; He avg better then Gavaskar till his age around 37 (53.09)..In any case Viv fared better then him in both 70s & 80s avg higher in 70s 58 to 55 and 50 to 45 in 80s..
Easy to belite great men but still was rates 3rs greatest test batter ever
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
Sobbers even said Subash Gupte as better then late Shane Warne; his hate for Viv is something else; In any case Viv was more consistent then him avg more then him in both 1970s & 1980s.. He was league or two above him if not more.. It's ODI where Viv perhaps underchaived a bit and he was better test player.. Best of his era in any format by comman consensus
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
Score less then me ?? Really ?? Viv avg better then him in both 1970s and 1980s 58 in 70s to his 55 (helped by plundering weak attacks during Packer yrs)..
Viv overdragged himself to spoil his stats a bit till his age when he retired at 37 even then Viv had better avg 53.09
Opening also gives opportunity to attack hard new ball upfront not any difficult... Even Viv opened against Lillee & Thommo in their absolute fastest scored 279 runs in last 4 innings with 2 tons in his second ever tour..
Just for record even statically Viv is most successful batter against Imran in his pomp from 1980 to 88 when Imran picked 240 scalps at 17 a piece, Viv avg 59 in those 3 series leading run scorer from both sides and Windies vs Pak were low scoring encounters unlike IND Pak in those days played on featherbeads where Miandad, Gavaskar, Abbas pilled up their stats; Gavaskar over glorfied myth of dominating Windies quatret although he only faces them in 1 series and avg 28 .poor record against Lillee and Hadlee's too..
If Viv is giving me more consistent runs with far more dominating batting & personality I will choose him any day of the weak and many unbiased knowledgable people do put Viv as best batter of his era in any format by some margin..
He was rated 6 slots above Gavaskar and he is a tier above him..
Viv overdragged himself to spoil his stats a bit till his age when he retired at 37 even then Viv had better avg 53.09
Opening also gives opportunity to attack hard new ball upfront not any difficult... Even Viv opened against Lillee & Thommo in their absolute fastest scored 279 runs in last 4 innings with 2 tons in his second ever tour..
Just for record even statically Viv is most successful batter against Imran in his pomp from 1980 to 88 when Imran picked 240 scalps at 17 a piece, Viv avg 59 in those 3 series leading run scorer from both sides and Windies vs Pak were low scoring encounters unlike IND Pak in those days played on featherbeads where Miandad, Gavaskar, Abbas pilled up their stats; Gavaskar over glorfied myth of dominating Windies quatret although he only faces them in 1 series and avg 28 .poor record against Lillee and Hadlee's too..
If Viv is giving me more consistent runs with far more dominating batting & personality I will choose him any day of the weak and many unbiased knowledgable people do put Viv as best batter of his era in any format by some margin..
He was rated 6 slots above Gavaskar and he is a tier above him..
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
Score less then me ?? Really ?? Viv avg better then him in both 1970s and 1980s 58 in 70s to his 55 (helped by plundering weak attacks during Packer yrs)..
Viv overdragged himself to spoil his stats a bit till his age when he retired at 37 even then Viv had better avg 53.09
Opening also gives opportunity to attack hard new ball upfront not any difficult... Even Viv opened against Lillee & Thommo in their absolute fastest scored 279 runs in last 4 innings with 2 tons in his second ever tour..
Just for record even statically Viv is most successful batter against Imran in his pomp from 1980 to 88 when Imran picked 240 scalps at 17 a piece, Viv avg 59 in those 3 series leading run scorer from both sides and Windies vs Pak were low scoring encounters unlike IND Pak in those days played on featherbeads where Miandad, Gavaskar, Abbas pilled up their stats; Gavaskar over glorfied myth of dominating Windies quatret although he only faces them in 1 series and avg 28 .poor record against Lillee and Hadlee's too..
If Viv is giving me more consistent runs with far more dominating batting & personality I will choose him any day of the weak and many unbiased knowledgable people do put Viv as best batter of his era in any format by some margin..
He was rated 6 slots above Gavaskar and he is a tier above him..
Viv overdragged himself to spoil his stats a bit till his age when he retired at 37 even then Viv had better avg 53.09
Opening also gives opportunity to attack hard new ball upfront not any difficult... Even Viv opened against Lillee & Thommo in their absolute fastest scored 279 runs in last 4 innings with 2 tons in his second ever tour..
Just for record even statically Viv is most successful batter against Imran in his pomp from 1980 to 88 when Imran picked 240 scalps at 17 a piece, Viv avg 59 in those 3 series leading run scorer from both sides and Windies vs Pak were low scoring encounters unlike IND Pak in those days played on featherbeads where Miandad, Gavaskar, Abbas pilled up their stats; Gavaskar over glorfied myth of dominating Windies quatret although he only faces them in 1 series and avg 28 .poor record against Lillee and Hadlee's too..
If Viv is giving me more consistent runs with far more dominating batting & personality I will choose him any day of the weak and many unbiased knowledgable people do put Viv as best batter of his era in any format by some margin..
He was rated 6 slots above Gavaskar and he is a tier above him..
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
Sobbers even said Subash Gupte as better then late Shane Warne; his hate for Viv is something else; In any case Viv was more consistent then him avg more then him in both 1970s & 1980s.. He was league or two above him if not more.. It's ODI where Viv perhaps underchaived a bit and he was better test player.. Best of his era in any format by comman consensus
In case of Wasim saying Viv is his bunny ??? Keeping Indian patirotism away most sane people rate Viv a league above him though buny Viv avg 51 against Pak when Wasim played better then Gavaskar, Lara & Tendulkar..
Iny any case Wasim choosed 5 greatest batter he saw recently search anywhere and he rated Viv Richards as no.1 followed by Martin Crowe at 2; Brian Lara 3, Inzi 4 and Sachin 5th..
Viv avg more then overrated Gavaskar in both 70s and 80s and his stats were spoiled because he hung in for too late till 40 if he would have retired around 37 Sunny age his avg is better significantly 53.09..
Viv lowest avg across 4 innings of test is 48 take it that stats of underachiever..
Viv avg 40+ against every nation so called underachiever which overrated Gavaskar his fan Sobbers cant..
Wasim rated Viv as best he saw ever..
'"If I talk about one batter with unmatched technique, charisma & swagger there is no one like Viv Richards. I bowled to all greats post 1980 but Viv was class apart""
In case of Wasim saying Viv is his bunny ??? Keeping Indian patirotism away most sane people rate Viv a league above him though buny Viv avg 51 against Pak when Wasim played better then Gavaskar, Lara & Tendulkar..
Iny any case Wasim choosed 5 greatest batter he saw recently search anywhere and he rated Viv Richards as no.1 followed by Martin Crowe at 2; Brian Lara 3, Inzi 4 and Sachin 5th..
Viv avg more then overrated Gavaskar in both 70s and 80s and his stats were spoiled because he hung in for too late till 40 if he would have retired around 37 Sunny age his avg is better significantly 53.09..
Viv lowest avg across 4 innings of test is 48 take it that stats of underachiever..
Viv avg 40+ against every nation so called underachiever which overrated Gavaskar his fan Sobbers cant..
Wasim rated Viv as best he saw ever..
'"If I talk about one batter with unmatched technique, charisma & swagger there is no one like Viv Richards. I bowled to all greats post 1980 but Viv was class apart""
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
He didnt hit God mode for 2 years he hit it for 8 years between 1976 to 1982 or 83 he avg 67 plundering close to 5k test runs; this is most dominant pomp of long sample size after incomparable Bradman..
He didn't avg 45 for 15 years; this thread is full of hatered; Even in his last 15 years 1976 to 1991 he avg 53 added by fact he dragged himself a bit & spoiled his stats; He avg better then Gavaskar till his age around 37 (53.09)..In any case Viv fared better then him in both 70s & 80s avg higher in 70s 58 to 55 and 50 to 45 in 80s..
Easy to belite great men but still was rates 3rs greatest test batter
He didn't avg 45 for 15 years; this thread is full of hatered; Even in his last 15 years 1976 to 1991 he avg 53 added by fact he dragged himself a bit & spoiled his stats; He avg better then Gavaskar till his age around 37 (53.09)..In any case Viv fared better then him in both 70s & 80s avg higher in 70s 58 to 55 and 50 to 45 in 80s..
Easy to belite great men but still was rates 3rs greatest test batter
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
Errr again
Errr...In so called SENA nation
Gavaskar acored 2400 runs @44
Viv scores 3900 runs @54..
His average in Windies were helped by fact that he thumped a poor Windies attack in 1971 where they fielded people like Jack Nigeria a club class bowler at best..or smashing Jamuadeen and these guyz in 1976 apart from raw Mickey Holding.
No wonder Chandra and Bedi were among the wicket takers in that summer; Viv in second and third game on turning trindad surface scored half of Windies total runs but obviously these can go to dustbin..
Errr...In so called SENA nation
Gavaskar acored 2400 runs @44
Viv scores 3900 runs @54..
His average in Windies were helped by fact that he thumped a poor Windies attack in 1971 where they fielded people like Jack Nigeria a club class bowler at best..or smashing Jamuadeen and these guyz in 1976 apart from raw Mickey Holding.
No wonder Chandra and Bedi were among the wicket takers in that summer; Viv in second and third game on turning trindad surface scored half of Windies total runs but obviously these can go to dustbin..
Packer&Tracker
Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2022
- Runs
- 18
Reply
Imran was a medium pacer in 1977; it was around 1980 when he truly became out and out tearway who demolish batting line ups..
Viv was most succesfull batter against Imran in his pomp between 1980 to 1988 he avg 59 in these span..
Greg thumped 235 in a series on highway (Imran refuse to bowl on that featherbed) where everyone was making merry when Imran promised fast wickets in 1982 he excused and refuse to play the series like he did many a times post Packer to let his stats stay intact.. By the way till his age Viv avg slightly bettee 54 something..
Not many talk about Viv's performance in 1980 series in Pak on minefields where next best batter HA Gomes scored 220 runs fewer then him (140 to Viv's 370)..He avg 72 next Windiee batter avg 28 again Gomes...He was best batsman again second best or top team of 1970s Aussies..avg 59 against Pak in 1980s when they were second best team in world..
Viv over Greg even his best mates will agree..
Imran was a medium pacer in 1977; it was around 1980 when he truly became out and out tearway who demolish batting line ups..
Viv was most succesfull batter against Imran in his pomp between 1980 to 1988 he avg 59 in these span..
Greg thumped 235 in a series on highway (Imran refuse to bowl on that featherbed) where everyone was making merry when Imran promised fast wickets in 1982 he excused and refuse to play the series like he did many a times post Packer to let his stats stay intact.. By the way till his age Viv avg slightly bettee 54 something..
Not many talk about Viv's performance in 1980 series in Pak on minefields where next best batter HA Gomes scored 220 runs fewer then him (140 to Viv's 370)..He avg 72 next Windiee batter avg 28 again Gomes...He was best batsman again second best or top team of 1970s Aussies..avg 59 against Pak in 1980s when they were second best team in world..
Viv over Greg even his best mates will agree..
Sunil Gvasakar for me. This because opening the innings is always the most difficult thing to do in an era when the great Aussie and West Indian fast bowlers were at their peak. Okay Sunny was not the most entertaining to watch but he was the ultimate test batsman often holding his team together. He had an impeccable technique where as the other two most walked in when conditions were easier and the ball being older was easier to handle.
As Mikey Holding said, if Viv wanted to chase records, he would have broken all records in the book. He played for making an impact and boy did he do that.
Forget out of all these 3, I’d put Richards at the top of the pack all time
Forget out of all these 3, I’d put Richards at the top of the pack all time
jeetu
PPCL Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2010
- Runs
- 9,891
- Post of the Week
- 4
Mine would be among the 3
1. Gavaskar
2. Richards
3. Chappell
1. Gavaskar
2. Richards
3. Chappell
Ashraful_Rox
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2010
- Runs
- 15,668
Gavaskar is overrated he scored 30 of 100+ balls during a WC match. He won't even be selected for Dhaka Super Kings in today's time 
sweep_shot
World Star
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Runs
- 53,296
I have not seen any of them live (started to watch cricket from around 1997).
But, it seems like Gavaskar was the best among these 3.
But, it seems like Gavaskar was the best among these 3.
Similar threads
