Vladimir Putin says insulting Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is 'violation of religious freedom'

[Technics 1210]

Assange faces legal process. Worst case for him is life imprisonment.

He doesn’t just vanish never to be seen again like Russian dissidents do.

Life imprisonment for exposing the truth. He is being extradited to the USA. You and I know he will never walk free.

As I said, same difference.

Can you explain to me why causing offence to Jews is deemed anti-Semitic?

 

[Robert]

An inaccurate and contextual statement by Livingston amounts to anti-Semitism? How?

The only special right is that for the Jews. You clearly believe Livingston's comments were anti-Semitic and he did the graceful thing by apologising to the Jewish community. Do you think Charlie Hebdo's cartoon mocking the prophet of Islam was Islamophobic and Charlie Hebdo should apologise for causing offence to Muslims around the world?

Rights vs responsibility? You have insinuated that Muslims should 'take it on the chin' since other religions are mocked. What responsibility are you refering to?

I asked you multiple times in this thread, why hasn't any Western leader said the same as Putin has? I mean if its really down to rights vs. responsibilty, what is stopping Western leaders in teaching its citizens responsibilty with freedom of expression?

As for Putin burning mosques and deporting Muslims, I don't think you have any evidence of this happening in Russia. As for Chechnya, the 1st war took place before Putin, the second war was purley down to assimilation with Russia. Putin's motive was not to destroy Islam in Russia, but was to regain the land lost after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Was Livingstone’s statement antiSemitic? Not purposefully, but it had the effect of hostility to Jewish people collectively.

Was Hebdo Islamophobic? Yeah, purposefully, they shouldn’t have done that. It was grossly insensitive and puerile. Yes, they should apologise.

See further up the thread re: responsibility.

Already answered why Western leaders don’t say what Putin said. There’s no need for such populist statements. We live in nations with hate speech laws.

Putin was right in there for the First Chechen War. He didn’t just appear from nowhere in 1999.

 

[Robert]

Life imprisonment for exposing the truth. He is being extradited to the USA. You and I know he will never walk free.

As I said, same difference.

Can you explain to me why causing offence to Jews is deemed anti-Semitic?

Not getting why you don’t see a difference between due process where the defendant has recourse to legal defence and is tried in open court, and actual assassination by agents of the state.

Come on, you know when a statement is racist and when it isn’t.

 

[Sir-fraz]

People will be offened by anything. Move on, cant use the same excuse for the rest of history.

If you are too mentally weak to handle some words go home and stay home because no one really cares. And the only reason that they do is for self gratification.

Lets give up freedom of speech because people have their panties in a twist...

Cant say nothing nowadays because someone gets "offended" lol, that someone lives in a closet and hasnt been in the real world yet.

 

[Technics 1210]

Not getting why you don’t see a difference between due process where the defendant has recourse to legal defence and is tried in open court, and actual assassination by agents of the state.

Come on, you know when a statement is racist and when it isn’t.

Assange is not a defendant. He is not alleged to have commited a 'crime', he is wanted by the US Government for committing a crime; he's been found guilty. The legal process is simply an assurance he will not be tortured and will be treated humanly in US prisons. Can you name me any person extradited to the US that had a trial and walked free?

The point here is that Russia might take dissidants off the the street, so does the US government by locking up dissidents in prison. How they are taken off the street is neither here nor there, but why they are taken off the streets is the point. Assange's 'crime' was he exposed the US government. Heck the person who provided him the info was pardoned by Obama (Manning). Saying this, there are suspects still held in Guantanamo Bay without trial/legal process. You see the 2 governments are no different in the end, they will take anyone off the street, who ever they please, just the methods are different.

I am trying to understand how what Livingston said was racist. You can say what he said was inaccurate etc but how was it racist - anti-semetic? Because he didn't support the Zionist narrative?

Western leaders have a responsibilty. Educating citizens on being responsible with freedoms is not populus politics, it's not seasonal votes, it's betterment for the future of society.

 

[MenInG]

Jamaat-e-Islami Amir Sirajul Haq on Monday hailed Russian President Vladimir Putin's stance against blasphemy.

In an open letter to Putin, he thanked him for drawing the world's attention to Muslims' feelings against offensive language or publication of blasphemous caricatures of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Last week, the Russian president said that insulting the Prophet (PBUH) is a violation of freedom of religion and a violation of the holy feelings of people who profess Islam.

"This freedom must be founded on respect for everyone whose feelings may be affected," Putin said at his annual news conference last Thursday.

"On behalf of the people of Pakistan, and members of my party, I would like to reiterate our commitment to upholding values of respect, harmony, dialogue, and peaceful coexistence," Siraj said, adding, "We believe in cooperation among various civilisations to promote the well-being of all the humanity."

"We believe it will be a great service to humanity if world leaders like yourself take it upon themselves to promote understanding among different civilisations," he said, asking the Russian president to play a "leading role" in mitigating a rising phenomenon of Islamophobia, particularly in the West.

"As a leading figure on the global stage, your voice will find resonance in East and West. You can play a leading role in mitigating Islamophobia, as well as hostility towards other minority communities around the world. We can be called civilised when we care to protect those who are the most vulnerable in our societies," the JI amir insisted.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2335845/jamaat-e-islami-hails-putins-anti-blasphemy-stance

 

[KingKhanWC]

Hark at you fawn at the despot’s feet because he throws you a bone. Russian waters, indeed! The RN seek to keep international waters open, not let despots use them as a private lake. The “stern warning” was ignored, as it should be.

You are highly critical of UK foreign policy. As a British citizen that is your right. But try criticising Russian foreign policy from inside Russia. What do you think will happen to you?

Go ahead and avoid answering the awkward question, as you always do.

Royal Navy has no business sailing near Russia and esp in Crimean waters. I suggest you watch the video of Navy personnell shaking in their boots when a warning was fired. Its highy stupid for the navy to poke the bear, it wont end well.

Plenty criticise Russian foriegn policy, they even did this in the Soviet era.

Perhaps you can answer this.. Would you accept Russian warships sailing just outside of British waters?

Wake up, Britain isnt the worlds policman, it can barely look after its own people now. I live here, I dont want to be nuked by Russia, all it takes is one launch and your British empire will be in the history books.

 

[LaLoco]

People will be offened by anything. Move on, cant use the same excuse for the rest of history.

If you are too mentally weak to handle some words go home and stay home because no one really cares. And the only reason that they do is for self gratification.

Lets give up freedom of speech because people have their panties in a twist...

Cant say nothing nowadays because someone gets "offended" lol, that someone lives in a closet and hasnt been in the real world yet.

You are misconstruing the idea of freedom of speech and your explanation is as generalized as it gets with the repeat of general and rather immature talking points.

On personal level, you can follow what you have suggested but on the grand level, no one should ignore abuse and hate drive narrative hurled at collective group of population just to spread hate and racism.

 

[KingKhanWC]

People will be offened by anything. Move on, cant use the same excuse for the rest of history.

If you are too mentally weak to handle some words go home and stay home because no one really cares. And the only reason that they do is for self gratification.

Lets give up freedom of speech because people have their panties in a twist...

Cant say nothing nowadays because someone gets "offended" lol, that someone lives in a closet and hasnt been in the real world yet.

Its a two decade policy of the western nations to allow/support demonisation of Islam/Prophet(pbuh). It is then easy to bomb them, kill, invade, destory and occupy. You may see it as more seriously if you lived in Palestine , Iraq etc. But of course its hunky dory sitting on a sofa in a safe nation.

 

[Robert]

Royal Navy has no business sailing near Russia and esp in Crimean waters. I suggest you watch the video of Navy personnell shaking in their boots when a warning was fired. Its highy stupid for the navy to poke the bear, it wont end well.

Plenty criticise Russian foriegn policy, they even did this in the Soviet era.

Perhaps you can answer this.. Would you accept Russian warships sailing just outside of British waters?

Wake up, Britain isnt the worlds policman, it can barely look after its own people now. I live here, I dont want to be nuked by Russia, all it takes is one launch and your British empire will be in the history books.

The RN can sail where it likes in international waters, and part of NATO’s role is to keep them open.

Admiral Kuznetsov steamed through the English Channel a couple of years ago, just outside UK and French waters. The RN and La Royale didn’t fire silly “warning shots” or buzz her with fighter jets, but shadowed her and took lots of pictures and monitored comms.

The bear resumed poking us in 2008 after years of cooperation, flying Tupolevs into our airspace to see how quickly the Typhoons scramble. They do this to all NATO states.

Don’t worry, you’re not going to get nuked. We are in NATO. An attack on one is an attack on all and Putin knows it. While he is rebuilding Russia’s defences at the very high rate of 5% of GDP, his modus operandi is alternative war - propaganda, destabilisation, cranking up far right parties, Brexit, nipping off bits of territory where there are ethnic Russians like South Ossetia and Ukraine.

 

[Technics 1210]

The RN can sail where it likes in international waters, and part of NATO’s role is to keep them open.

Admiral Kuznetsov steamed through the English Channel a couple of years ago, just outside UK and French waters. The RN and La Royale didn’t fire silly “warning shots” or buzz her with fighter jets, but shadowed her and took lots of pictures and monitored comms.

The bear resumed poking us in 2008 after years of cooperation, flying Tupolevs into our airspace to see how quickly the Typhoons scramble. They do this to all NATO states.

Don’t worry, you’re not going to get nuked. We are in NATO. An attack on one is an attack on all and Putin knows it. While he is rebuilding Russia’s defences at the very high rate of 5% of GDP, his modus operandi is alternative war - propaganda, destabilisation, cranking up far right parties, Brexit, nipping off bits of territory where there are ethnic Russians like South Ossetia and Ukraine.

Russia's debt ratio is one of the lowest in the world at 19.48% of its GDP, while UK is around 82%, Germany 53% and so on. You get the picture.

NATO has been an abject failure from the breakup of Yugoslavia to Afghanistan. Russia annexed Crimea, is blamed for Salsbury chemical attack, and what was NATO's answer? What was the West's answer? Sanctions and explusion of Russian diplomats. Didn't work.

Russia supplies the majority of natural gas to Europe. Is teaming with other natural resources, is building alliances across the East. This is called smart business and why Russia is earning and growing faster than Europe meanwhile UK is drowning in debt and refuses to build alliances outside the Western world because uncle Tom says no.

You can claim Russia indulges in propaganda, destabilisation etc, but the West is equally guilty of such accusations. Iraq, Afghanistan to name but a few examples.

Please don't say the attack on said nations was because a NATO member was attacked on 9/11 with all the Article 5 malarky, America wasn't attacked by a nation it was attacked by a group of terrorists. Even if one were to believe the excuses amd lies, OBL was from Saudi Arabia, not Iraq, not Afghanistan.

I feel sorry for your generation who were promised an all destruction of Russia, when all the time it was the West (still is) in decline.

Your enemy is closer to you than you think, clue, it's not Russia.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

People will be offened by anything. Move on, cant use the same excuse for the rest of history.

If you are too mentally weak to handle some words go home and stay home because no one really cares. And the only reason that they do is for self gratification.

Lets give up freedom of speech because people have their panties in a twist...

Cant say nothing nowadays because someone gets "offended" lol, that someone lives in a closet and hasnt been in the real world yet.

What is the "real world"?

 

[KingKhanWC]

The RN can sail where it likes in international waters, and part of NATO’s role is to keep them open.

Admiral Kuznetsov steamed through the English Channel a couple of years ago, just outside UK and French waters. The RN and La Royale didn’t fire silly “warning shots” or buzz her with fighter jets, but shadowed her and took lots of pictures and monitored comms.

The bear resumed poking us in 2008 after years of cooperation, flying Tupolevs into our airspace to see how quickly the Typhoons scramble. They do this to all NATO states.

Don’t worry, you’re not going to get nuked. We are in NATO. An attack on one is an attack on all and Putin knows it. While he is rebuilding Russia’s defences at the very high rate of 5% of GDP, his modus operandi is alternative war - propaganda, destabilisation, cranking up far right parties, Brexit, nipping off bits of territory where there are ethnic Russians like South Ossetia and Ukraine.

I just made you aware it wasnt in International waters.

Russia has proven the RN lies.

Russia releases VIDEO of British warship’s incursion into waters near Crimea, clearly contradicting London’s version of events

https://www.rt.com/russia/527511-defender-warning-shots-video/

Nato wanting to put nukes next to the Russian border will of course worry them and see retaliation. If Russia placed nukes next to Britain or USA, you would be up in arms like others.

lol. Russia needs ONE strike. By the time your Yank friends arrive we will be evaparated into toxic air.

Over the last 20 years its clear Nato is a terrorist organistion, an aggressor and a war monger. But its ok because your a patriotic Brit.

 

[Napa]

There is a difference between a disagreement, a criticism and an insult.

The devoutly religious regard disagreements and criticisms as insults, and are ready to kill those who disagree and criticize.

In such a situation, it is not possible to evaluate the existing social conditions and come up with necessary improvements, and improvement for the society becomes impossible.

 

[PakLFC]

Have always maintained that attacking any religious figure is not freedom of speech. In the west one can't even question the holocaust such is the hypocrisy. I have no problem if refusing to accept anyone as being divinely inspired without abusing them. Putin has spoken wisely.

 

[Robert]

I just made you aware it wasnt in International waters.

Russia has proven the RN lies.

https://www.rt.com/russia/527511-defender-warning-shots-video/

Nato wanting to put nukes next to the Russian border will of course worry them and see retaliation. If Russia placed nukes next to Britain or USA, you would be up in arms like others.

lol. Russia needs ONE strike. By the time your Yank friends arrive we will be evaparated into toxic air.

Over the last 20 years its clear Nato is a terrorist organistion, an aggressor and a war monger. But its ok because your a patriotic Brit.

I don’t believe what the Russian state propaganda channel says. I believe, with certain reservations, what the independent free press outlets in democracies say.

One Trident SSBN can devastate multiple Russian cities all by itself, so UK only needs one strike too. We don’t need USA’s help, but we would immediately get it, and that of France. An attack on one NATO state is an attack on all and Putin knows it. That’s why he hasn’t invaded the Baltic states. So don’t worry, nobody is going to launch at us, because the cost is obliteration.

Instead Putin will continue with alternate warfare, attempting to turn allies against each other, stirring up Islamophobia in the West via proxies, corrupting governments with oligarch money, winning the propaganda war, destabilising nations, and nipping off bits of territory when unopposed.

 

[James]

Have always maintained that attacking any religious figure is not freedom of speech. In the west one can't even question the holocaust such is the hypocrisy. I have no problem if refusing to accept anyone as being divinely inspired without abusing them. Putin has spoken wisely.

Certainly the very positive international reaction would suggest that President Putin has played a blinder on this one.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I don’t believe what the Russian state propaganda channel says. I believe, with certain reservations, what the independent free press outlets in democracies say.

One Trident SSBN can devastate multiple Russian cities all by itself, so UK only needs one strike too. We don’t need USA’s help, but we would immediately get it, and that of France. An attack on one NATO state is an attack on all and Putin knows it. That’s why he hasn’t invaded the Baltic states. So don’t worry, nobody is going to launch at us, because the cost is obliteration.

Instead Putin will continue with alternate warfare, attempting to turn allies against each other, stirring up Islamophobia in the West via proxies, corrupting governments with oligarch money, winning the propaganda war, destabilising nations, and nipping off bits of territory when unopposed.

lol. Russians have put up a video, they have nothing to hide. RN sailing towards them is as idiotic as it gets, they are no match for the Russian Navy. You fail to address my point, if Russian ships were sailing of the British coast, you'd be very upset or is that ok too?

Please do take a look at the world map. Russia is huge, it will still surive, UK is tiny it wont.

The fact you need others to help, shows UK is no match. Btw in a war would you volunteer to go and fight in a war?

Western nations along with their outpost Israel are far ahead of stirring up Islamaphobia, nobody else can come close but thats ok for you because its 'your' people.

 

[Robert]

lol. Russians have put up a video, they have nothing to hide. RN sailing towards them is as idiotic as it gets, they are no match for the Russian Navy. You fail to address my point, if Russian ships were sailing of the British coast, you'd be very upset or is that ok too?

Please do take a look at the world map. Russia is huge, it will still surive, UK is tiny it wont.

The fact you need others to help, shows UK is no match. Btw in a war would you volunteer to go and fight in a war?

Western nations along with their outpost Israel are far ahead of stirring up Islamaphobia, nobody else can come close but thats ok for you because its 'your' people.

I already addressed your point regarding the voyage of the Admiral Kuznetsov, but you persist in ignoring my answers.

Russia is vast but her cities are not. One single modern SSBN can knock any country back hundreds of years by devastating the cities, communication and infrastructure. And dumping fallout for n the agricultural land. They have more destructive power than all the munitions released in WW1 and WW2 combined.

Yes, if this land was directly threatened I would enlist. Though I doubt I would be much use as an infantryman at my age.

Anyway the mods have asked me to behave differently so you can have the last word

 

[Technics 1210]

lol. Russians have put up a video, they have nothing to hide. RN sailing towards them is as idiotic as it gets, they are no match for the Russian Navy. You fail to address my point, if Russian ships were sailing of the British coast, you'd be very upset or is that ok too?

Please do take a look at the world map. Russia is huge, it will still surive, UK is tiny it wont.

The fact you need others to help, shows UK is no match. Btw in a war would you volunteer to go and fight in a war?

Western nations along with their outpost Israel are far ahead of stirring up Islamaphobia, nobody else can come close but thats ok for you because its 'your' people.

The previous generations of our time still live with the cold war mentality. UK barely has a navy, cannot launch nukes without US approval, its military bankrupt, still depends on the fragile 'special relationship' with Amreeka; and democracy is fast turning into Authoritarianism along with a debt ridden economy.

Russia along with China sit on the permenant UN security council. Nuff said.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The previous generations of our time still live with the cold war mentality. UK barely has a navy, cannot launch nukes without US approval, its military bankrupt, still depends on the fragile 'special relationship' with Amreeka; and democracy is fast turning into Authoritarianism along with a debt ridden economy.

Russia along with China sit on the permenant UN security council. Nuff said.

Imo Nato wants war with Russia and China. Ukraine and Taiwan will be used as excuses, the usual we have are the worlds policemen, the good guys etc. I think they are feeling Russia and China will back down, thus giving them more imperial control in the world but they are wrong imo.

The average Brit just wants to live their life as best they can with their family. Most here now are far more intelligent, dont adhere to the cold war backward mindset. Of course there are some , mostly odler generalistion who watch James Bond, listen to the BBC and claim they are western advanced liberals who are the good guys, until they support bombing of kids if Blair or Boris tells them its also a good thing to do.

 

[Technics 1210]

Imo Nato wants war with Russia and China. Ukraine and Taiwan will be used as excuses, the usual we have are the worlds policemen, the good guys etc. I think they are feeling Russia and China will back down, thus giving them more imperial control in the world but they are wrong imo.

The average Brit just wants to live their life as best they can with their family. Most here now are far more intelligent, dont adhere to the cold war backward mindset. Of course there are some , mostly odler generalistion who watch James Bond, listen to the BBC and claim they are western advanced liberals who are the good guys, until they support bombing of kids if Blair or Boris tells them its also a good thing to do.

NATO is a white man's club. This is a fact. It was setup post WW2 when USA was the spearheard of western imperialism after nuking Japan, twice.

NATO is nothing without USA, this is why the poor 'white' nations of Europe were sweating bricks when Trump threatened to pull out of NATO.

 

[KingKhanWC]

NATO is a white man's club. This is a fact. It was setup post WW2 when USA was the spearheard of western imperialism after nuking Japan, twice.

NATO is nothing without USA, this is why the poor 'white' nations of Europe were sweating bricks when Trump threatened to pull out of NATO.

People who think Nato are too powerful for others have little understanding of modern warfare. China sent a missile around the globe recently. Russia also has hypersonic missiles which destroy the US. Lets be honest if it ever went to soldiers fighting on the ground, the Nato troops who the Taliban whopped wont be any match for the Chinese and Russians.

But there will still be the odd Brit who will live on bread and water with a smile because his/her patriotism means more .

 

[Technics 1210]

People who think Nato are too powerful for others have little understanding of modern warfare. China sent a missile around the globe recently. Russia also has hypersonic missiles which destroy the US. Lets be honest if it ever went to soldiers fighting on the ground, the Nato troops who the Taliban whopped wont be any match for the Chinese and Russians.

But there will still be the odd Brit who will live on bread and water with a smile because his/her patriotism means more .

NATO power is a myth. If Russia was weak why would NATO members brick it with sleep Joe Biden begging Putin to withdraw?

Meanwhile Russia is raking it with gas supplies to NATO members! LOL.

 

[James]

Gents — please can we bring the thread back to order and return to the OP if discussions are to continue. Cheers

 

[MenInG]