Protest over image of Prophet Mohammed shown in a UK class 'unacceptable', say education officials

[Tubs]

He could have made whatever point he wanted to make without showing the picture. Don't tell me he was unaware that it would be offensive, there has been enough coverage of the Hebdo issues for everyone to know what this is about, particularly an RE teacher.

I am not attributing malice, I don't know what his intentions were. He may well have been following instruction, but unlikely since his own school suspended him. You are switching to hyperbole again talking about death threats. You know as well as I do that you will always get idiots on social media making stupid threats whatever the issue and regardless of religion. The protests in this case were peaceful, whether they should have continued is another matter.

Anything can be construed as offensive. My only point was that it had context behind the showing of it, and he wasn't doing it just to offend people.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rs-line-outside-Batley-school-second-day.html
Death threats, but you may dismiss it as 'idiots on the internet'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-56523179
Threats and intimidation at the protest.

I said from the start that there were threats at the protest, it wasn't hyperbole. Please retract your statement. You were being hyperbolic, not I.

 

[Adil_94]

Again id argue that there has been a lot of adpatations made by Muslims who live in the West esp in the UK. Certain things that our parents gen wouldnt do or saw as taboo. Muslims are breaking barriers within the own communities.

Just because most Muslims dont agree with cartoons of the Prophet (pbuh) doesnt mean Muslims or the way Islam is practiced in the UK hasnt been adapted in certain ways. Most Muslims still do take things like that seriously in a way Christians nowadays dont.

But as someone who is an outsider looking in maybe u dont see that perspective and see that Islam in the UK is a monolith that is unchanging based off stories like this

[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]

 

[OMB]

When the name of the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) is mentioned, it should be done with respect.

Those who have a problem with that will find their posts deleted.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Anything can be construed as offensive. My only point was that it had context behind the showing of it, and he wasn't doing it just to offend people.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rs-line-outside-Batley-school-second-day.html
Death threats, but you may dismiss it as 'idiots on the internet'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-56523179
Threats and intimidation at the protest.

I said from the start that there were threats at the protest, it wasn't hyperbole. Please retract your statement. You were being hyperbolic, not I.

You are just arguing for the sake of it. Your opinion on what is offensive is redundant since obviously Muslims in Batley found this offensive. You can imagine whatever context you like in your own head, the only one that counts is the one that transpired. Try going into a Muslim area in Bradford waving around your poster and see if the locals get your context.

 

[Tubs]

You are just arguing for the sake of it. Your opinion on what is offensive is redundant since obviously Muslims in Batley found this offensive. You can imagine whatever context you like in your own head, the only one that counts is the one that transpired. Try going into a Muslim area in Bradford waving around your poster and see if the locals get your context.

Okay, keep shifting the goal posts.

And you said that I was being hyperbolic about the threats, and you were wrong.

And offence is arbitrary. If people feel compelled to give threats due to a picture shown in class (with context, which you will always deny), they're the problem, not the teacher.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Okay, keep shifting the goal posts.

And you said that I was being hyperbolic about the threats, and you were wrong.

And offence is arbitrary. If people feel compelled to give threats due to a picture shown in class (with context, which you will always deny), they're the problem, not the teacher.

Well it's the teacher who ended up with the problem as he's been suspended and is now supposedly fearing for his life. The context probably seems to make a lot more sense to you sitting typing anonymously in your parent's house, I would think the teacher now probably thinks he was a dupe who was made a fall guy.

 

[Robert]

Again id argue that there has been a lot of adpatations made by Muslims who live in the West esp in the UK. Certain things that our parents gen wouldnt do or saw as taboo. Muslims are breaking barriers within the own communities.

Just because most Muslims dont agree with cartoons of the Prophet (pbuh) doesnt mean Muslims or the way Islam is practiced in the UK hasnt been adapted in certain ways. Most Muslims still do take things like that seriously in a way Christians nowadays dont.

But as someone who is an outsider looking in maybe u dont see that perspective and see that Islam in the UK is a monolith that is unchanging based off stories like this

[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION]

Ok, could you give examples of how Islam has changed in UK?

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] Again Islam isnt a monolith i think u are too stuck in your Christian mindset of the Church being this centralised authority that once it gives an order or change in directive then it becomes uniform for all followers of that sect. Like the Vatican or the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Islam doesnt have any real centralised authority or such a figure.

There have been some miniority movements like female only mosques. LGBTQ friendly mosques. Female Imams tho they are a minority.

Id say the way Islam is practised is in the UK has efinitely changed in the last 50 60 years.

Peoples attitudes to womens rights have become slowly more liberalised due to living in a western liberal environment. You are now starting to see conversations in regards to LGBTQ people within Muslim communities. Even the discussion in relation to apostasy as well. Something even 20 years ago wasnt. As well as further integration into political life and more feeling of a sense of Britishness.

 

[topspin]

This is a nuanced issue that's sadly a part of today's toxic culture wars where there's no winning no matter what you say.

Without knowing exactly the contents of the image and intention of the lesson, whether it was meant to stimulate debate about blasphemy (a part of the Kirklees KS2 Syllabus), an unintentional slight by a teacher unaware of the religious sensitivities, or a deliberate insult, it's best to avoid commenting on hearsay which can lead to lethal consequences as we tragically saw in France.

In an ideal world, freedom of speech would be absolute and have no adverse consequences whatsoever. But that's not the real world. In our 1998 Human Rights Act "everyone has the right to freedom of expression" in the UK BUT the law also qualifies this freedom “may be subject to formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others" and on it goes.

Britain is a melting pot which is I why love it. You could walk down many streets in any given city and find a white, brown and black face. However if that melting pot of many races, nationalities, ethnicities and religions is to survive as a cohesive democratic society - inevitably compromises are made. There are many epithets about black people that are rightly off-limits. Debating the existence of the Holocaust even as an intellectual exercise is discouraged for the sake of the Jewish minority in many European countries. And producing cartoons, whatever the context, of a man whose name is uttered in every prayer and recitation is like waving a red rag to a bull even to moderate Muslims. Batley, like many parts of West Yorkshire, has a high % of Muslims and tend to be more conservative than their co-religionists in the South, so you can imagine the reaction.

Protesting is a basic democratic right and Muslims are entitled to exercise that right like anyone else (which some on the Right normally normally bemoaning "cancel culture" seem to ignore here). The school has rightly suspended the teacher for now pending an investigation. If the above account is true, there's no cause to continue his employment. However the school shouldn't be subjected to trial by mob before the facts are established. These protesters who've caused the cancellation of a day's teaching need to remember there's a very hostile climate against Muslims currently, and a group of dariwalas chanting slogans sends the wrong image.

Now's the time for dialogue with the school behind closed doors instead of creating a spectacle outside the school gates for the world's press to exploit and create an even more hostile atmosphere for Muslims.

Best post in this thread. Balanced and rational without any emotions involved. Really enjoyed reading this.

+1

 

[Robert]

Could you translate dariwalas for me [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]?

 

[Last Monetarist]

Could you translate dariwalas for me [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]?

Men with beards.

 

[Robert]

Men with beards.

Does it mean more than this? I have a beard.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Does it mean more than this? I have a beard.

Nope, the implication here was to overly religious men with beards that would make WG proud.

 

[Tubs]

Well it's the teacher who ended up with the problem as he's been suspended and is now supposedly fearing for his life. The context probably seems to make a lot more sense to you sitting typing anonymously in your parent's house, I would think the teacher now probably thinks he was a dupe who was made a fall guy.

And yet, not a condemnation about why the teacher is fearing for his life. If a cartoon is enough to stir this up, then the extremists are the issue, and the nature of the protests showed that there are many. The context being acceptable and extremists getting mad aren't mutually exclusive.

I like how you have to always have little jibes to try and legitimise your argument, such as saying 'supposedly fearing for his life', and talking about where I'm situated. I know your arguments have no substance so you have to revert to this nonsense, but come on.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

And yet, not a condemnation about why the teacher is fearing for his life. If a cartoon is enough to stir this up, then the extremists are the issue, and the nature of the protests showed that there are many. The context being acceptable and extremists getting mad aren't mutually exclusive.

I like how you have to always have little jibes to try and legitimise your argument, such as saying 'supposedly fearing for his life', and talking about where I'm situated. I know your arguments have no substance so you have to revert to this nonsense, but come on.

You couldn't refute the truth about what I said so now you are playing the jibe card. You don't have to like my arguments, the facts are self evident. The teacher was suspended, and he himself has said he is in hiding. No one broke the law by protesting. Your contexts are fine for you in your own little world but not much use to him are they?

 

[silentkiller187]

The real issue here is hypocrisy. Teachers have been sacked for "anti semite" comments , after making a joke about gas chambers, sacked for misogyny, sacked for calling a transgender pupil a girl, the pupil was very much biologically a female, sacked for saying students dress in skirts that are too short making them look like sex workers.

But when it comes to mocking islam, freedom of speech. Lol

 

[The_KING]

These non Muslims think they can mock our religion and prophet and expect us to do nothing about it. We aren’t Christians.

It’s funny how you can lose your job because you don’t buy Meghan Markle’s fake sob story of facing racism within the royal story, yet when it comes to Muslims and Islam, it’s freedom of speech. Screw this hypocrisy.

 

[Tubs]

You couldn't refute the truth about what I said so now you are playing the jibe card. You don't have to like my arguments, the facts are self evident. The teacher was suspended, and he himself has said he is in hiding. No one broke the law by protesting. Your contexts are fine for you in your own little world but not much use to him are they?

I couldn't refute 'the truths' because they were all assertions, mixed with passive aggression, which you always do. You try not to let your authoritarian side show, but the mask is starting to slip. No condemnation for the death threats, no condemnation for the violent threats at the protest, but a continual condemnation of a man who showed an image which was in-line with the class he was teaching.

You continually suggested that he did it out of malice for no reason, but I've proved you wrong each time. You said that there weren't any threats. I proved you wrong. But now you keep harping on about how the 'context doesn't help him now'. Of course it doesn't, but that doesn't change the fact that he showed the images in a situation which was related, not to just get a rise out of the students. The problem is the fact that he needs 'help' now, but you can't even say it's bad that he and his family are in hiding?

The mask is slipping!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I couldn't refute 'the truths' because they were all assertions, mixed with passive aggression, which you always do. You try not to let your authoritarian side show, but the mask is starting to slip. No condemnation for the death threats, no condemnation for the violent threats at the protest, but a continual condemnation of a man who showed an image which was in-line with the class he was teaching.

You continually suggested that he did it out of malice for no reason, but I've proved you wrong each time. You said that there weren't any threats. I proved you wrong. But now you keep harping on about how the 'context doesn't help him now'. Of course it doesn't, but that doesn't change the fact that he showed the images in a situation which was related, not to just get a rise out of the students. The problem is the fact that he needs 'help' now, but you can't even say it's bad that he and his family are in hiding?

The mask is slipping!

Read back to post #15 where I said that after the school had taken action the protests should be called off and there should be efforts to diffuse the situation. I am not going to condemn every stupid tweet or FB message, they are ten a penny on every issue, that is social media for you. The protests went ahead without any arrests so I am happy to let the police do their job.

I could care less about what mask you think is slipping, I have said from the start it was a stupid action in light of the Hebdo fiasco. The school evidently agreed, and that is why the teacher was suspended. There is no context where showing that poster was a good idea, at least not in present day Britain.

 

[Robert]

These non Muslims think they can mock our religion and prophet and expect us to do nothing about it. We aren’t Christians.

It’s funny how you can lose your job because you don’t buy Meghan Markle’s fake sob story of facing racism within the royal story, yet when it comes to Muslims and Islam, it’s freedom of speech. Screw this hypocrisy.

The teacher has been suspended.

 

[Adil_94]

The petition to reinstate the teacher has reached 70 000. People underestimate how much your verage white British person values being able to mock religious figures without penalty .

 

[PetroDollars]

well its clear the teacher didnt break any law, so maybe its time to use this as an excuse to take the debate to the parliament to classy this as fredom of speech or hate speech.

 

[KingKhanWC]

well its clear the teacher didnt break any law, so maybe its time to use this as an excuse to take the debate to the parliament to classy this as fredom of speech or hate speech.

A teacher doesnt have freedom of speech, teaching children has to be done in a respectful and cohesive manner. eg a teacher cannot say Judaism is a false religion in an RE class even if he/she believes this.

There is not a single country which has absolute freedom of speech and never will be.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

The petition to reinstate the teacher has reached 70 000. People underestimate how much your verage white British person values being able to mock religious figures without penalty .

This is a country that will vote Tory in at a landslide even today... The fact Britain at its core has superior infrastructure to most of the world has masked their failings

 

[Robert]

The petition to reinstate the teacher has reached 70 000. People underestimate how much your verage white British person values being able to mock religious figures without penalty .

It is not a free speech issue for these people I think.

They just hate Muslims and think the prohibition gives them some “special right” that they don’t have. A lot of white English people are like that, sadly. And it has got worse in the last five years.

 

[KingKhanWC]

This is a country that will vote Tory in at a landslide even today... The fact Britain at its core has superior infrastructure to most of the world has masked their failings

Those days are long gone. Britain in some places has infrastructure worse than 3rd world countries. Pakistan has been better shopping centres than the UK now. Roads full of pot holes, litter in city centres, buildings falling apart, abandoned , the list goes on.

The public are easilly brainwashed. UK citizens are perhaps one of the most illeterate when it comes to politics. There a many who voted for Boris because he looked chubby, cute and cuddly to them. lol

 

[SpiritOf1903]

Those days are long gone. Britain in some places has infrastructure worse than 3rd world countries. Pakistan has been better shopping centres than the UK now. Roads full of pot holes, litter in city centres, buildings falling apart, abandoned , the list goes on.

The public are easilly brainwashed. UK citizens are perhaps one of the most illeterate when it comes to politics. There a many who voted for Boris because he looked chubby, cute and cuddly to them. lol

The ability to lead the world in vaccine rollout suggests otherwise.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The ability to lead the world in vaccine rollout suggests otherwise.

Have you seen panorama on the Milton Keynes testing site?

UK bought vaccines from others spending billions of tax payers money. Oxford is made in India. The rollout has been quick only because its being rolled out due to emergency measures. Hadly sending man to the moon.

 

[MenInG]

Guys stick to topic - we can leave general discussions on UK Economy for other threads

 

[SpiritOf1903]

In relation to the topic, the idea to show children a depiction that at its core uses poetic license which given the freedom is used to offend, is indefensible.

 

[Adil_94]

[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] Certainly amongst that 70,000 crowd there are those that are Anti-Muslim bigots who hate Muslims full stop but theres also people who think that this is a matter of principle for them and that u shouldnt cave into blasphemy laws in 2021 in Britain. N who dont hate Muslims or Islam more than any other religion.

Ricky Gervais also tweeted about it calling it ridiculous n he is just a harcore atheist who is anti religion not particularly anti Muslim just thinks all religions are ridiculous and are fairy tales who shouldnt get any special treatment which a lot of younger White Brits do as well.

 

[PetroDollars]

A teacher doesnt have freedom of speech, teaching children has to be done in a respectful and cohesive manner. eg a teacher cannot say Judaism is a false religion in an RE class even if he/she believes this.

There is not a single country which has absolute freedom of speech and never will be.

Anyone has freddom of speech while they live here, its not saudi arabia.
If a teacher thinks Judaism is a false religon, they can belive that but will obviously not get a job to teach people RE.

The teacher didnt say islam is a false religon, nor did he say prophet muhammad was a false prohet,

 

[miandadrules]

Interesting pattern emerging from all these groups.

Mass campaign of disinformation, dog whistling /doxing and then crying that they are the true victims.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Anyone has freddom of speech while they live here, its not saudi arabia.
If a teacher thinks Judaism is a false religon, they can belive that but will obviously not get a job to teach people RE.

The teacher didnt say islam is a false religon, nor did he say prophet muhammad was a false prohet,

I never said the teacher said this...or that. Read carefully.

This is freedom of thought, not freedom of speech. A teacher cannot say any religion is false in an RE class if they believe this.

 

[James]

Oh my, [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]’s contribution.

Post of the Week. For sure.

 

[Robert]

Have you seen panorama on the Milton Keynes testing site?

UK bought vaccines from others spending billions of tax payers money. Oxford is made in India. The rollout has been quick only because its being rolled out due to emergency measures. Hadly sending man to the moon.

Oxford AstraZenica it is made in Oxford, and in Keele. The clue is in the name. UK has ordered 100m doses from the domestic plants. Companies making the needed medical equipment are expanding and taking on staff.

AstraZenica is also made in India.

 

[the Great Khan]

Well tbh the act was unnecessary. The response disproportionate. Somewhere down the line non natives of the western world will have to adjust to the fact that the rules of the society they immigrated from and the society they immigrated to are different.

read the equality act. A case can be made of misconduct by the teacher as he knew this would be controversial. Anybody with half a brain knows this would have been a problem. He did it on purpose to play the "white" superior. Its a problem that runs through the uk.

On the other hand the parents made their point and this guy got suspended and I suspect will get sacked. Job done. Now go home. We have to be smart not act like a jahil mob.

 

[Robert]

[MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] Certainly amongst that 70,000 crowd there are those that are Anti-Muslim bigots who hate Muslims full stop but theres also people who think that this is a matter of principle for them and that u shouldnt cave into blasphemy laws in 2021 in Britain. N who dont hate Muslims or Islam more than any other religion.

Ricky Gervais also tweeted about it calling it ridiculous n he is just a harcore atheist who is anti religion not particularly anti Muslim just thinks all religions are ridiculous and are fairy tales who shouldnt get any special treatment which a lot of younger White Brits do as well.

There is no blasphemy law in the UK to cave in to.

Such alleged atheists shouldn’t really care. They have emotional investment in their need to be right and should grow up. It doesn’t matter what people believe as long as that belief inspires them to do good not harm.

 

[Robert]

read the equality act. A case can be made of misconduct by the teacher as he knew this would be controversial. Anybody with half a brain knows this would have been a problem. He did it on purpose to play the "white" superior. Its a problem that runs through the uk.

On the other hand the parents made their point and this guy got suspended and I suspect will get sacked. Job done. Now go home. We have to be smart not act like a jahil mob.

The Equality Act 2010 does not apply as nobody has been discriminated against or victimised.

 

[the Great Khan]

The Equality Act 2010 does not apply as nobody has been discriminated against or victimised.

didnt say it applied here, was pointing the act out to an indian colleague..they seem to think british law is like their RSS law where you burn or lynch Muslims when you feel like it..so ignore that part of my comment..

 

[cricketjoshila]

read the equality act. A case can be made of misconduct by the teacher as he knew this would be controversial. Anybody with half a brain knows this would have been a problem. He did it on purpose to play the "white" superior. Its a problem that runs through the uk.

On the other hand the parents made their point and this guy got suspended and I suspect will get sacked. Job done. Now go home. We have to be smart not act like a jahil mob.

Equality act trumps FOE?

Someone posted here that there is counter protests in support of the teacher.

 

[cricketjoshila]

didnt say it applied here, was pointing the act out to an indian colleague..they seem to think british law is like their RSS law where you burn or lynch Muslims when you feel like it..so ignore that part of my comment..

No one lynched or killed a muslim. But the teacher has his FoE rights and there are no blasphemy laws in UK that says he cannot show the cartoons.

UK isnt a islamic state where you can punish people for being non muslims.

 

[Zaz]

No one lynched or killed a muslim. But the teacher has his FoE rights and there are no blasphemy laws in UK that says he cannot show the cartoons.

UK isnt a islamic state where you can punish people for being non muslims.

There are incitement laws and maintaining public order rules all of which this action comes under

If its actions werent questionable hundreds of people wouldnt have turned out protesting and he wouldnt have been suspended

 

[El Generico]

No one lynched or killed a muslim. But the teacher has his FoE rights and there are no blasphemy laws in UK that says he cannot show the cartoons.

UK isnt a islamic state where you can punish people for being non muslims.

Name one Islamic country where a person can be punished just for being non-Muslim. If not then at least have the decency to admit you are lying.

 

[Technics 1210]

If the teacher had shown an image of Moses, in shackles, with a Swatsika on his right arm, as a juxtaposition of Hebrew slavery, then not only would the teacher be suspended but the school would be shut down pending further investigation due to antisemitism.

So save this free speech malarky.

Just because Christians don't have a problem with Jesus being mocked doesn't mean other faith do to.

See there are ways to make a point through illustration but doesn't have to me made by offensive means.

We are here discussing this topic simply because in the West one religion is held at a higher helm, with different laws protecting it.

 

[guna]

If the teacher had shown an image of Moses, in shackles, with a Swatsika on his right arm, as a juxtaposition of Hebrew slavery, then not only would the teacher be suspended but the school would be shut down pending further investigation due to antisemitism.

So save this free speech malarky.

Just because Christians don't have a problem with Jesus being mocked doesn't mean other faith do to.

See there are ways to make a point through illustration but doesn't have to me made by offensive means.

We are here discussing this topic simply because in the West one religion is held at a higher helm, with different laws protecting it.

Anyone with a problem must hold peaceful protests. Western society has evolved past the religious dogma long time ago.

 

[Technics 1210]

Anyone with a problem must hold peaceful protests. Western society has evolved past the religious dogma long time ago.

Run along with your peaceful protest mantra. How'd that work out for Gandhi?

 

[Technics 1210]

Anyone with a problem must hold peaceful protests. Western society has evolved past the religious dogma long time ago.

We're talk about duplicity and freedom of speech. Not the right to protest. If you live in the UK speak on, if not, move on.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Name one Islamic country where a person can be punished just for being non-Muslim. If not then at least have the decency to admit you are lying.

What are dhimmis? What was Jaziya? Why can't no non muslim become PM of pakistan? Why islamic countries have laws against apostasy?

 

[cricketjoshila]

There are incitement laws and maintaining public order rules all of which this action comes under

If its actions werent questionable hundreds of people wouldnt have turned out protesting and he wouldnt have been suspended

Hundreds of Muslims came out protesting. The teacher had to take protection.

 

[Zaz]

Hundreds of Muslims came out protesting.

And? The protests were peaceful No violence or threats were made at the school and no arrests were made
Its a democratic right in the uk to hold peaceful protests as they were observed in batley

The teachers taking protection because of online trolls and what happened in france, nothing to do with the protests in batley Hes been very silly to do what he did considering what transpired over there

 

[cricketjoshila]

And? The protests were peaceful No violence or threats were made at the school and no arrests were made
Its a democratic right in the uk to hold peaceful protests as they were observed in batley

The teachers taking protection because of online trolls and what happened in france, nothing to do with the protests in batley Hes been very silly to do what he did considering what transpired over there

DfE spokesperson said the "nature of protest we have seen, including issuing threats

This is from the OP.

Issuing threats must be peaceful in your opinion.

 

[miandadrules]

And? The protests were peaceful No violence or threats were made at the school and no arrests were made
Its a democratic right in the uk to hold peaceful protests as they were observed in batley

The teachers taking protection because of online trolls and what happened in france, nothing to do with the protests in batley Hes been very silly to do what he did considering what transpired over there

Who released the teachers name?

 

[Zaz]

DfE spokesperson said the "nature of protest we have seen, including issuing threats

This is from the OP.

Issuing threats must be peaceful in your opinion.

Whos been arrested for making threats?

Your always gonna get the odd idiot and keyboard warriors hijacking the issue

Overall the protests have been dealt with very peacefully by the muslim community

There havent been riots violence arrests or anything your alluding to in your posts so please dont even go there

 

[El Generico]

What are dhimmis? What was Jaziya? Why can't no non muslim become PM of pakistan? Why islamic countries have laws against apostasy?

How are any of these punishing someone for being Non-Muslim? Pakistan is a Islamic state governed by Islamic laws so it would make no sense to have a non-Muslim leader. Pakistan does not pretend to be secular unlike other nations. However not being able to be PM is not a punishment, even in most secular countries you can’t be the leader unless you are from the majority religion. Even if it isn’t a written law, do you think a Muslim or Hindu can become president in the US or PM in the UK?

Anyways at least no one in Pakistan is punished for practising their religion or eating what they want. Muslims don’t eat pork or drink alcohol but no Non-Muslim Pakistani would be punished for either of those things.

On the other hand, even Non-Hindus in India can’t eat beef without being lynched or arrested. Why force your own dietary restrictions on others if you are a “secular” country? Also aren’t non-Hindus prohibited from entering certain temples in India? Aren’t there laws in India specifically targeting interfaith marriages?


Look at your own country before lecturing others.

 

[Thomaskutty]

How are any of these punishing someone for being Non-Muslim? Pakistan is a Islamic state governed by Islamic laws so it would make no sense to have a non-Muslim leader. Pakistan does not pretend to be secular unlike other nations. However not being able to be PM is not a punishment, even in most secular countries you can’t be the leader unless you are from the majority religion. Even if it isn’t a written law, do you think a Muslim or Hindu can become president in the US or PM in the UK?

Don't make foolish arguments like these. Once you establish a country based on relligion and are a proud unapologetic citizen of it, you lose all moral authority to criticise what happens in legally non-discriminatory countries like US, UK and India.

Nobody will ever take you seriously ever unless you renounce the foundations of your motherland.

 

[Nadeemp]

London has a muslim mayor. U.K. will have an indian or pakistani decent PM sooner than later. Usa will have an indian President sooner than later. Sorry Kamala is already a VP. I think she is christian. But a Hindu will be President also one day. Sooner than later.

 

[El Generico]

London has a muslim mayor. U.K. will have an indian or pakistani decent PM sooner than later. Usa will have an indian President sooner than later. Sorry Kamala is already a VP. I think she is christian. But a Hindu will be President also one day. Sooner than later.

These are just predictions, let’s talk about them when they actually happen. Also just to be clear I was talking about religion not race.

Forget US,Canada is way more liberal then US but even here Jagmeet Singh lost quite easily and in polls some voters openly admitted they would have voted for NDP but didn’t because of their leader’s religion.


Nearly half of Quebec said they wouldn’t vote for just based on his religion.

Forty-seven per cent of Quebecers say they wouldn’t vote for an observant Sikh man.

https://nationalpost.com/news/polit...-hurt-his-chances-of-winning-an-election-poll

 

[OMB]

Stay on Topic

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

London has a muslim mayor. U.K. will have an indian or pakistani decent PM sooner than later. Usa will have an indian President sooner than later. Sorry Kamala is already a VP. I think she is christian. But a Hindu will be President also one day. Sooner than later.

All those examples are Muslim/sikh/hindu in name, but they would be expected to represent British values above all else. So the Muslim mayor of London would not be able to close down pubs, and would have to agree with teaching LGBTQ literature to school children. A hindu President of the USA would have a hard time promoting the holy sanctity of the cow.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

These are just predictions, let’s talk about them when they actually happen. Also just to be clear I was talking about religion not race.

Forget US,Canada is way more liberal then US but even here Jagmeet Singh lost quite easily and in polls some voters openly admitted they would have voted for NDP but didn’t because of their leader’s religion.


Nearly half of Quebec said they wouldn’t vote for just based on his religion.


https://nationalpost.com/news/polit...-hurt-his-chances-of-winning-an-election-poll

Given their status in UK due to combination of aggressively smart PR and British people seemingly indebted to their and just their apparently selfless numbers offered to the cause in WWII, they've got more chance of gaining power in UK than anywhere else in the world.

 

[Tubs]

Don't make foolish arguments like these. Once you establish a country based on relligion and are a proud unapologetic citizen of it, you lose all moral authority to criticise what happens in legally non-discriminatory countries like US, UK and India.

Nobody will ever take you seriously ever unless you renounce the foundations of your motherland.

Disagree with the bold, but otherwise, a fantastic post.

It really is something when a man hiding due to fear of being murdered is ignored, but a cartoon of a historical figure which some people revere is the most important issue in the world.

 

[Technics 1210]

The Times is reporting the teacher used an image from Charlie Hebdo.

 

[PakLFC]

I always ask what would our Prophet do? Threatening people with violence is not the answer. Muslim's like all others have the right to protest providing they keep it civil. Trouble occurs when properties are damaged thanks to violent preachers who encourage such actions.

 

[OMB]

Batley Grammar School: Teacher suspended over Prophet Mohammed image row can return to classroom

An independent investigation concludes staff involved in the religious studies lesson did not intend to cause offence.

A teacher who was suspended after showing a caricature of the Prophet Mohammed to pupils can return to the classroom.

An independent investigation into the incident at Batley Grammar School in West Yorkshire - which provoked a nationwide row and protests - has concluded that the teaching staff involved in the religious studies lesson did not intend to cause offence with the image.

In an executive summary of the report, the Batley Multi Academy Trust, which runs the school, said teaching staff "genuinely believed that using the image had an educational purpose and benefit".

But it also said the topics covered during the class "could have been effectively addressed in other ways and without using the image" and that it was "not necessary for staff to use the material in question to deliver the learning outcomes on the subject of blasphemy".

It said it recognised that using the image did cause "deep offence" to a number of students, parents and members of the school community, and added that it "deeply regrets the distress" caused.

Depictions of the Prophet Mohammed are considered deeply offensive in the Muslim faith.

The caricature was shown to students in a lesson on 22 March, according to a letter to parents seen by Sky News at the time.

People had gathered outside the school to demand the resignation of the teacher involved.

The school's headteacher Gary Kibble apologised following the incident for the use of what he described as "a totally inappropriate image" during the religious studies lesson and said "it should not have been used".

An independent inquiry into the "context" of how Year 9 pupils at the school came to be shown the image was announced following protests and the suspension of the teacher.

A spokeswoman for the Trust said: "We accept the recommendations of the independent expert investigation and will put them into practice immediately.

"The investigation recommends that the issues raised can be effectively dealt with through additional management guidance and training."

It added: "In the light of those conclusions, the suspensions put in place while the investigation was under way will now be lifted."

A spokeswoman for the National Education Union (NEU) said its members at the school engaged fully with the investigation, adding "the correct decision has been reached" and it was "delighted that the threat and worry of disciplinary action has been removed".

She added: "The impact of threats along with media speculation and commentary cannot be underestimated.

"It has been extremely distressing for all directly involved and our members want to put this worrying and difficult time behind them as best as they can."

The NEU has urged the Department for Education (DfE) to step up and support teachers and schools urgently with guidance around the teaching of controversial issues as part of the religious studies curriculum.

A DfE spokesperson said: "Batley Grammar has rightly set out a plan to move forward from the events of previous weeks.

"We would encourage parents, families and the local community to recognise the findings of the independent investigation - that the teachers who used the images in question had no negative intent - and to welcome and support the Trust's comprehensive plan to strengthen its oversight of the curriculum."

Stephen Evans, chief executive of the National Secular Society, welcomed the decision to lift suspensions, but added: "The Trust's stated commitment to ensuring offence is not caused is a route to censorship, and sets a very poor precedent.

"The outcome of this local investigation will affect teachers' ability to do their jobs across the country. So the government should face questions over its failure to show leadership when fundamental principles were at stake."

https://news.sky.com/story/teacher-suspended-over-prophet-mohammed-image-row-can-return-to-classroom-12318003

 

[ishtiaq_ctg]

I always ask what would our Prophet do? Threatening people with violence is not the answer. Muslim's like all others have the right to protest providing they keep it civil. Trouble occurs when properties are damaged thanks to violent preachers who encourage such actions.

Prophet would ignore it because that isn't him in the cartoon.

 

[Zaz]

I always ask what would our Prophet do? Threatening people with violence is not the answer. Muslim's like all others have the right to protest providing they keep it civil. Trouble occurs when properties are damaged thanks to violent preachers who encourage such actions.

Its the double standards in the uk that is the issue

You can say and do what you like when it comes to islam even the pm can make islamophobic jokes on it and not apologise but other religions get protection You cant even breathe a word for eg against israel because its anti semitism and front page news

The muslims in the uk dont want special treatment Just be treated the same ie fairly

 

[Tubs]

Its the double standards in the uk that is the issue

You can say and do what you like when it comes to islam even the pm can make islamophobic jokes on it and not apologise but other religions get protection You cant even breathe a word for eg against israel because its anti semitism and front page news

The muslims in the uk dont want special treatment Just be treated the same ie fairly

There have been numerous MPs calling for sanctions to be imposed on Israel, let's not act like it's unspeakable.

Do you want laws to protect someone that you revere as a prophet from harsh words and/or cartoons? In a non-Islamic, de facto secular country? Let's not be ridiculous. Religious practices are mocked in the UK, just watch any debate regarding religion on The Big Questions.

 

[PakLFC]

Its the double standards in the uk that is the issue

You can say and do what you like when it comes to islam even the pm can make islamophobic jokes on it and not apologise but other religions get protection You cant even breathe a word for eg against israel because its anti semitism and front page news

The muslims in the uk dont want special treatment Just be treated the same ie fairly

Then we have to fight to make it law. We must show togetherness by putting pressure on the UK government and Muslim governments too. The UK must know that their products will be banned should Muslim feelings not be respected. Breaking car's and violence is not the answer.

 

[PakLFC]

Prophet would ignore it because that isn't him in the cartoon.

Thing is the more we protest the west will continue it. We need to hit those who hurt Muslim feelings in the pocket. That is where it hurts the most.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Batley Grammar School: Teacher suspended over Prophet Mohammed image row can return to classroom

An independent investigation concludes staff involved in the religious studies lesson did not intend to cause offence.

A teacher who was suspended after showing a caricature of the Prophet Mohammed to pupils can return to the classroom.

An independent investigation into the incident at Batley Grammar School in West Yorkshire - which provoked a nationwide row and protests - has concluded that the teaching staff involved in the religious studies lesson did not intend to cause offence with the image.

In an executive summary of the report, the Batley Multi Academy Trust, which runs the school, said teaching staff "genuinely believed that using the image had an educational purpose and benefit".

But it also said the topics covered during the class "could have been effectively addressed in other ways and without using the image" and that it was "not necessary for staff to use the material in question to deliver the learning outcomes on the subject of blasphemy".

It said it recognised that using the image did cause "deep offence" to a number of students, parents and members of the school community, and added that it "deeply regrets the distress" caused.

Depictions of the Prophet Mohammed are considered deeply offensive in the Muslim faith.

The caricature was shown to students in a lesson on 22 March, according to a letter to parents seen by Sky News at the time.

People had gathered outside the school to demand the resignation of the teacher involved.

The school's headteacher Gary Kibble apologised following the incident for the use of what he described as "a totally inappropriate image" during the religious studies lesson and said "it should not have been used".

An independent inquiry into the "context" of how Year 9 pupils at the school came to be shown the image was announced following protests and the suspension of the teacher.

A spokeswoman for the Trust said: "We accept the recommendations of the independent expert investigation and will put them into practice immediately.

"The investigation recommends that the issues raised can be effectively dealt with through additional management guidance and training."

It added: "In the light of those conclusions, the suspensions put in place while the investigation was under way will now be lifted."

A spokeswoman for the National Education Union (NEU) said its members at the school engaged fully with the investigation, adding "the correct decision has been reached" and it was "delighted that the threat and worry of disciplinary action has been removed".

She added: "The impact of threats along with media speculation and commentary cannot be underestimated.

"It has been extremely distressing for all directly involved and our members want to put this worrying and difficult time behind them as best as they can."

The NEU has urged the Department for Education (DfE) to step up and support teachers and schools urgently with guidance around the teaching of controversial issues as part of the religious studies curriculum.

A DfE spokesperson said: "Batley Grammar has rightly set out a plan to move forward from the events of previous weeks.

"We would encourage parents, families and the local community to recognise the findings of the independent investigation - that the teachers who used the images in question had no negative intent - and to welcome and support the Trust's comprehensive plan to strengthen its oversight of the curriculum."

Stephen Evans, chief executive of the National Secular Society, welcomed the decision to lift suspensions, but added: "The Trust's stated commitment to ensuring offence is not caused is a route to censorship, and sets a very poor precedent.

"The outcome of this local investigation will affect teachers' ability to do their jobs across the country. So the government should face questions over its failure to show leadership when fundamental principles were at stake."

https://news.sky.com/story/teacher-suspended-over-prophet-mohammed-image-row-can-return-to-classroom-12318003

Will he return to the same school or a different school?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Great job by the local Muslims.

The school has made the decision, it is "not necessary" to use pictures of the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh). in RS lessons or any other lessons out of “respect” for community.

This should also set a precidence for all other schools in the UK.

Teacher has accepted his wrongs and rightly should be allowed to continue teaching.

 

[RexRex]

Great job by the local Muslims.

The school has made the decision, it is "not necessary" to use pictures of the Prophet Muhammed(pbuh). in RS lessons or any other lessons out of “respect” for community.

This should also set a precidence for all other schools in the UK.

Teacher has accepted his wrongs and rightly should be allowed to continue teaching.

Freedom of expression is the highest ideal we should all aspire to promote.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Freedom of expression is the highest ideal we should all aspire to promote.

It doesnt exist, never has existed and never will. Nice dream.

 

[cricketjoshila]

It doesnt exist, never has existed and never will. Nice dream.

Look at France.

 

[Tubs]

It doesnt exist, never has existed and never will. Nice dream.

No surprise that the religious are authoritarian.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Look at France.

One of the worst examples, holocaust denial.

No surprise that the religious are authoritarian.

All societies have limits on freedom of speech. Unless you can name one which doesnt.

 

[Tubs]

One of the worst examples, holocaust denial.



All societies have limits on freedom of speech. Unless you can name one which doesnt.

It depends what you mean by free speech. Incitement to hatred isn't classed as speech, neither is harassment, threats, etc. But even so, that wasn't my point. It's just that you seem to delight in censorship, which makes sense considering shariah is explicitly authoritarian and curtails many freedoms.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It depends what you mean by free speech. Incitement to hatred isn't classed as speech, neither is harassment, threats, etc. But even so, that wasn't my point. It's just that you seem to delight in censorship, which makes sense considering shariah is explicitly authoritarian and curtails many freedoms.

You either believe in free speech or you don't. If you start adding caveats like incitement to hatred, then to be honest, you can't really have free speech at all. Many of the news articles we read today carry dog whistle headlines which are sneaky versions of incitement to hatred.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It depends what you mean by free speech. Incitement to hatred isn't classed as speech, neither is harassment, threats, etc. But even so, that wasn't my point. It's just that you seem to delight in censorship, which makes sense considering shariah is explicitly authoritarian and curtails many freedoms.

You cant even define freedom of speech because there is no absolute freedom speech. Every society is authoritarian in this regard, unless you can point me to one which allows any words to be said/wrote. In your willigness to attack Islam, you fail to remember this simple truth.