Protest over image of Prophet Mohammed shown in a UK class 'unacceptable', say education officials

[shaykh]

I was listening to Talk Radio in the morning with a spokesman from the Ramadan foundation who mentioned most of what I wrote. Parents were also told this by their children who were in the class. The teacher has been suspended, pointing to the school confirming wrong doing has taken place.

You are a teacher and an athiest who is critical of Islam, which is your right but would you ever entertain such a move? If not why not?

Well firstly because if what is said above is true then it’s not reflective of what I believe anyway...but as a teacher anyway it’s not my role to impose my personal ideas...it’s about getting my students to share their ideas and debate based on whatever the topic is...

As for what has allegedly taken place...it’s worth noting the Samuel Paty situation where the prime source for the info was a girl who wasn’t even in the class...at present all that’s clear is that an image of the Prophet was shown...

Time will tell I guess whether the teacher was suspended just to placate the protesters or whether something more sinister has happened as you have mentioned...

 

[Stewie]

The protesters are calling for the teacher to be sacked even though he/she did nothing wrong.

Well calling for the teacher to be sacked is allowed too. So what’s the problem? If as a tax paying citizen I’m not happy with the education my kids are getting, (paid for from my taxes) I have a right to ask the teacher to be removed. And if I can show significant majority agreeing with me, the school has to do it.

 

[mazkhan]

Quit your rambling and maybe get out of your 3rd world country for a change.

Even if we are a 0,0000001% of Muslims here in the EU, we have (obligations and) rights here. We are prospering here for generations, troll! & your Islamophobia can't do zilch about reality, no matter how much crap you write on internet.

World doesn't star and end with India and its many millenna old fascist mentality. Societies and their members around the world think in a different way. It is hard for someone like a BJP supporter to comprehend but there is a vast world around.

Remember bosnia , chechenya and 1930s Germany never assume we are safe , there's disgusting levels of racism sweeping across Europe in Denmark I'm not 100% sure on this , but they have made a law where ethnic minorities cannot become a majority in one neighbourhood and they will be forced out and relocated to other areas , but the majority must be native white.

In other news france has banned halal slaughter whilst allowing kosher.

But people will still have their heads stuck in the sand like an ostrich .

 

[cricketjoshila]

RSS extermists and athiests views/opinions on this subject have zero value esp if they live outside UK.

Teacher will not be teaching in the same school ever again, this is a good enough imo. Worry about your own nation a poor backward nation compared to the UK. Thanks

Pakistanis should be the last ones calling anyone poor or backward.

The govt of UK seems to think that the teacher should not be intimidated let alone fired.

 

[Stewie]

Some people are claiming the teacher did nothing wrong. Sounds like this is a school where a lot of Muslim children go. Which means either they are directly paying for this education or their taxes are.
Now why would a teacher, who is drawing her or his salary from the fees/taxes paid by a lot of Muslims, actually have the audacity to insult our Holy Prophet? And why would she even do it in the first place if her heart was not full of hate?

I have long since maintained that it’s ridiculous to go by the accepted norm of offensive material and freedom of speech. I know a Pakistani family who have been robbed multiple times by black American criminals. If they start using freedom of speech to complain about the criminality of black Americans, I’m sure they will be labeled racist. But they don’t because they know not all blacks are criminals.


It’s offensive if a large section of a population gets offended by a certain action and it should be discouraged. Let’s not stupidly follow the media’s narrative about the so called liberties. It’s quite the liberties only favor certain people to hurt certain others while some particular sections of people seem to be well protected from all expressions of speech and freedom.

 

[guna]

Quit your rambling and maybe get out of your 3rd world country for a change.

Even if we are a 0,0000001% of Muslims here in the EU, we have (obligations and) rights here. We are prospering here for generations, troll! & your Islamophobia can't do zilch about reality, no matter how much crap you write on internet.

World doesn't star and end with India and its many millenna old fascist mentality. Societies and their members around the world think in a different way. It is hard for someone like a BJP supporter to comprehend but there is a vast world around.

India has many millennia old fascist mentality? Do you think before you type?

India gave shelter to many persecuted minority people on its shores. Many types of people came and settled in India and were absorbed into its culture. You can call the present BJP government fascist. But your statement that India is a many millennia old fascist country is a blatant lie.

 

[Stewie]

Pakistanis should be the last ones calling anyone poor or backward.

The govt of UK seems to think that the teacher should not be intimidated let alone fired.

If the UK public school system is anything like IS, they have to listen to their constituents. Constituents taxes or fees pay for the school, the teacher, etc. that part should be quite clear.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Totally agree. It is just hot air.

No immigrant minority community should think the way some of brit pakistanis think. If the majority community pushes something in real earnest there is little the other side can do. Why are muslims or hindus or sikhs etc migrating from Asia to Western nations? Because the natives of these nations have created a society and structure that's far more advanced than yours. The rights these people beat their chest are given by the laws the natives designed.

The day you are a danger to their order, they will make sure you fall in line. Those who create also know how to run and protect the system.

Numerous EU countries have banned various religious symbols. What could anyone do?

 

[cricketjoshila]

Quit your rambling and maybe get out of your 3rd world country for a change.

Even if we are a 0,0000001% of Muslims here in the EU, we have (obligations and) rights here. We are prospering here for generations, troll! & your Islamophobia can't do zilch about reality, no matter how much crap you write on internet.

World doesn't star and end with India and its many millenna old fascist mentality. Societies and their members around the world think in a different way. It is hard for someone like a BJP supporter to comprehend but there is a vast world around.

I have roamed around enough in europe and UK to get some idea.

You need to get out of your religious superiority mentality.

France has banned various religious symbols and practices. They have effectively struck at political islam. Various EU countries have taken steps to stop various religious symbols practices etc.

You have rights, because those in power have bestowed it upon you. The very same people can take it away.

People, countries, societies around the world are concerned about muslim extremism. They are pushing back at such religious extremism. France Denmark and other EU countries are bringing laws.

 

[cricketjoshila]

If the UK public school system is anything like IS, they have to listen to their constituents. Constituents taxes or fees pay for the school, the teacher, etc. that part should be quite clear.

And there would a large number of non muslim constituents too.

 

[Bigboii]

Batley Grammar, the school in question, is what you'd term as a charter school.

Yes so not a public school right?

Than I don't see a a problem

It's a private business the customers are doing boo ha and school is taking an action

If school stood by their teacher than hopefully kids have the choice to leave the school

It's all good than..

 

[ahmedzee]

When is the west going to realize how sensitive this issue is. You won't deny holocaust there, because it does hurt the sentiments of Jews and others. Similarly, why would you draw Prophet Muhammad sketches, and go the Chalie Hebdo way?

In the same sense, you won't draw a black guy being a slave and expect people to be cool with it because it is "freedom of speech". This is not freedom or speech, this is just plain non-sense made in order to hurt the sentiments of Muslims. And anyone who thinks otherwise is just a fool (we have a few here like Mamoon).

 

[ahmedzee]

Yes so not a public school right?

Than I don't see a a problem

It's a private business the customers are doing boo ha and school is taking an action

If school stood by their teacher than hopefully kids have the choice to leave the school

It's all good than..

Is it ok if they show Indians in a poor limelight then, since it is a private school? Maybe show hindus drinking urine and eating cow poop on a dinner table. Now that is a drawing you should be fine with since it is a "private" school. correct?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Pakistanis should be the last ones calling anyone poor or backward.

The govt of UK seems to think that the teacher should not be intimidated let alone fired.

Im British, this is directly our issue as British Muslims. You are an RSS fan, we know what you really think.

The teacher will never teach in the same school due to the protest and complaints, which matters most.

 

[Markhor]

This is a nuanced issue that's sadly a part of today's toxic culture wars where there's no winning no matter what you say.

Without knowing exactly the contents of the image and intention of the lesson, whether it was meant to stimulate debate about blasphemy (a part of the Kirklees KS2 Syllabus), an unintentional slight by a teacher unaware of the religious sensitivities, or a deliberate insult, it's best to avoid commenting on hearsay which can lead to lethal consequences as we tragically saw in France.

In an ideal world, freedom of speech would be absolute and have no adverse consequences whatsoever. But that's not the real world. In our 1998 Human Rights Act "everyone has the right to freedom of expression" in the UK BUT the law also qualifies this freedom “may be subject to formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, territorial integrity or public safety, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, for the protection of the reputation or rights of others" and on it goes.

Britain is a melting pot which is I why love it. You could walk down many streets in any given city and find a white, brown and black face. However if that melting pot of many races, nationalities, ethnicities and religions is to survive as a cohesive democratic society - inevitably compromises are made. There are many epithets about black people that are rightly off-limits. Debating the existence of the Holocaust even as an intellectual exercise is discouraged for the sake of the Jewish minority in many European countries. And producing cartoons, whatever the context, of a man whose name is uttered in every prayer and recitation is like waving a red rag to a bull even to moderate Muslims. Batley, like many parts of West Yorkshire, has a high % of Muslims and tend to be more conservative than their co-religionists in the South, so you can imagine the reaction.

Protesting is a basic democratic right and Muslims are entitled to exercise that right like anyone else (which some on the Right normally normally bemoaning "cancel culture" seem to ignore here). The school has rightly suspended the teacher for now pending an investigation. If the above account is true, there's no cause to continue his employment. However the school shouldn't be subjected to trial by mob before the facts are established. These protesters who've caused the cancellation of a day's teaching need to remember there's a very hostile climate against Muslims currently, and a group of dariwalas chanting slogans sends the wrong image.

Now's the time for dialogue with the school behind closed doors instead of creating a spectacle outside the school gates for the world's press to exploit and create an even more hostile atmosphere for Muslims.

 

[ahmedzee]

I have roamed around enough in europe and UK to get some idea.

You need to get out of your religious superiority mentality.

France has banned various religious symbols and practices. They have effectively struck at political islam. Various EU countries have taken steps to stop various religious symbols practices etc.

You have rights, because those in power have bestowed it upon you. The very same people can take it away.

People, countries, societies around the world are concerned about muslim extremism. They are pushing back at such religious extremism. France Denmark and other EU countries are bringing laws.

That is absolutely incorrect. France hasn't struck at "Political Islam", whatever that is. France and specially macron played politics and appeased the far right vote bank with the whole blasphemous cartoons, Hijab ban etc. I don't see such a rule there that denies the same Muslims to stop from participating in their national sport. Ofcourse, they benefit from it so Muslims are great when they help them win the World Cup.

 

[ahmedzee]

India has many millennia old fascist mentality? Do you think before you type?

India gave shelter to many persecuted minority people on its shores. Many types of people came and settled in India and were absorbed into its culture. You can call the present BJP government fascist. But your statement that India is a many millennia old fascist country is a blatant lie.

Wow, I read the OP and now I am reading this. You indians just turn every thread into "india is great" and "it should be all about india".

PATHETIC!

 

[rhony]

West should understand that there is no point of debate on certain religions. Islam is not up for debate. Period. Understand it and navigate around it so you don't have to deal with it. Simple.

 

[Bigboii]

And there would a large number of non muslim constituents too.

No you really have no idea of the point he was making...

If it's a Muslim majority area than the district would have to listen to their opinion...

 

[Bigboii]

Is it ok if they show Indians in a poor limelight then, since it is a private school? Maybe show hindus drinking urine and eating cow poop on a dinner table. Now that is a drawing you should be fine with since it is a "private" school. correct?

He'll yeah do whatever indians would have the choice to leave if they don't like the policy

That's why it's a private school

 

[mazkhan]

France has just banned halal slaughter

Also look at Denmarks ghetto plan which targets muslim areas it almost akin to social cleansing .

We have plenty of those policy supporters in the UK led by likes.of farage , Tommy and.our prime minister who called face veiled muslim women letterboxes and bank robbers

 

[in_cutter]

Both sides are idiotic. The teacher for provoking & the protesters for protesting the way they did.

It should have took one sensible person to have a quite word with the establishment in question & resolve the issue.

The Prophet (ﷺ) did not endorse such behaviour. It’s embarrassing.

 

[Gilly]

Muslims are their own worst enemies here, this is not going to stop and it will happen again and again. Each time there is a reaction like this it will further the divide between muslims and everyone else.

The west are not going to bring in laws to stop people drawing cartoons of anything regardless. Amish people in America believe that people should not use modern technology but America is not going to pass laws to stop people from using modern technology, Amish just go about their own business and live the way they want to and everyone else lives their life the way they want to.

Same with muslims, they can live their life the way they want to and leave everyone else to live their life the way they want to, if you want to live somewhere they have laws to stop people from drawing cartoons then go live where there are laws that you want. People living in the UK do not have to follow laws from 1500 years ago. People that are not muslims do not have to follow muslim laws.

If they do try to introduce a law to stop people from drawing cartoons then they should also introduce a law that bans any books that are derogatory to homosexuals.

 

[Tubs]

Muslims are their own worst enemies here, this is not going to stop and it will happen again and again. Each time there is a reaction like this it will further the divide between muslims and everyone else.

The west are not going to bring in laws to stop people drawing cartoons of anything regardless. Amish people in America believe that people should not use modern technology but America is not going to pass laws to stop people from using modern technology, Amish just go about their own business and live the way they want to and everyone else lives their life the way they want to.

Same with muslims, they can live their life the way they want to and leave everyone else to live their life the way they want to, if you want to live somewhere they have laws to stop people from drawing cartoons then go live where there are laws that you want. People living in the UK do not have to follow laws from 1500 years ago. People that are not muslims do not have to follow muslim laws.

If they do try to introduce a law to stop people from drawing cartoons then they should also introduce a law that bans any books that are derogatory to homosexuals.

Exactly. Add women to that mix, and apostates, and 'hypocrites', and non-believers. They'll change their tune then.

 

[in_cutter]

Muslims are their own worst enemies here, this is not going to stop and it will happen again and again. Each time there is a reaction like this it will further the divide between muslims and everyone else.

The west are not going to bring in laws to stop people drawing cartoons of anything regardless. Amish people in America believe that people should not use modern technology but America is not going to pass laws to stop people from using modern technology, Amish just go about their own business and live the way they want to and everyone else lives their life the way they want to.

Same with muslims, they can live their life the way they want to and leave everyone else to live their life the way they want to, if you want to live somewhere they have laws to stop people from drawing cartoons then go live where there are laws that you want. People living in the UK do not have to follow laws from 1500 years ago. People that are not muslims do not have to follow muslim laws.

If they do try to introduce a law to stop people from drawing cartoons then they should also introduce a law that bans any books that are derogatory to homosexuals.

So it’s okay to provoke Muslims is it?

 

[HitWicket]

That's why it's a private school

It's not a private school. It's an academy which means it's a state funded school but the funding comes directly from government rather than the local authority and they have slightly more control over their policies. It's a status about a third of state schools in the UK have I believe.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Muslims are their own worst enemies here, this is not going to stop and it will happen again and again. Each time there is a reaction like this it will further the divide between muslims and everyone else.

The west are not going to bring in laws to stop people drawing cartoons of anything regardless. Amish people in America believe that people should not use modern technology but America is not going to pass laws to stop people from using modern technology, Amish just go about their own business and live the way they want to and everyone else lives their life the way they want to.

Same with muslims, they can live their life the way they want to and leave everyone else to live their life the way they want to, if you want to live somewhere they have laws to stop people from drawing cartoons then go live where there are laws that you want. People living in the UK do not have to follow laws from 1500 years ago. People that are not muslims do not have to follow muslim laws.

If they do try to introduce a law to stop people from drawing cartoons then they should also introduce a law that bans any books that are derogatory to homosexuals.

The west already has laws do keep up. You might not agree with our laws in the UK but they exist, inciting hatred and we also have the racial and religous act.

It seems athiests want abuse of Islam to flow so they get a kick out of it. Open Islamaphobia is rare in the UK as British Muslims do everything within the law to combat these clowns. Many Islamaphobes such as Tommy Robinson and that ugly woman whose name I forgot are nowhere to be seen now. They are left like yourself to attack on social media or forums.

 

[Bigboii]

Wow, I read the OP and now I am reading this. You indians just turn every thread into "india is great" and "it should be all about india".

PATHETIC!

Every thread turns into a India thread
India is a black hole of thread that ends up sucking every topic...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Exactly. Add women to that mix, and apostates, and 'hypocrites', and non-believers. They'll change their tune then.

Go draw a cartoon of the Prophet with a bomb and show your parents. Wonder what tune they will play to you.

 

[Bigboii]

It's not a private school. It's an academy which means it's a state funded school but the funding comes directly from government rather than the local authority and they have slightly more control over their policies. It's a status about a third of state schools in the UK have I believe.

Look simple

If it's a private school it's ok if it's a public school than it's wrong

 

[Gilly]

So it’s okay to provoke Muslims is it?

People provoke people all the time, if you have taught your children to get distressed by a cartoon then you need to address that issue, you will not live in a world where no one provokes anyone.

If you go off the deep end when someone pushes a button then that button is going to get pushed all the time. You cannot control what others do but you can control how you react.

the UK is not an islamic country so drawing a cartoon of Muhammad is not a crime.

The Catholic church had to let go of laws like this to move to a more tolerant society and if one religion demands that their laws have to apply to all then the floodgates will open and other religions can also demand that their laws apply too. Not to mention that there will be other minority groups that also want to have certain laws introduced.

 

[El Generico]

Muslims are their own worst enemies here, this is not going to stop and it will happen again and again. Each time there is a reaction like this it will further the divide between muslims and everyone else.

The west are not going to bring in laws to stop people drawing cartoons of anything regardless. Amish people in America believe that people should not use modern technology but America is not going to pass laws to stop people from using modern technology, Amish just go about their own business and live the way they want to and everyone else lives their life the way they want to.

Same with muslims, they can live their life the way they want to and leave everyone else to live their life the way they want to, if you want to live somewhere they have laws to stop people from drawing cartoons then go live where there are laws that you want. People living in the UK do not have to follow laws from 1500 years ago. People that are not muslims do not have to follow muslim laws.

If they do try to introduce a law to stop people from drawing cartoons then they should also introduce a law that bans any books that are derogatory to homosexuals.

Going by this twisted logic, groups shouldn’t care about racial slurs thrown at them because technically just saying a racial slur isn’t legal.

What a lot of people are missing is the fact that teacher wasn’t just following the course outline and teaching the usual stuff. He went out of his way to show derogatory pictures to a Muslim majority class and apparently equated the kids to terrorist by using language like “your people”. His only intention was to provoke and hurt the students not to teach. Would you be ok with your kids learning from a teacher who goes out of their way to target them for their race? Would it ok if a teacher told white kids, your people are mass shooters? This would likely not be illegal either so does that mean the teacher should be allowed to say that?


Like I said in another post, just because something is not Illegal does not mean people can’t lose their jobs over it. I mean teachers recently have been fired for using not using the preferred pronouns for students. So why shouldn’t this person be fired? If calling someone by a pronoun they don’t prefer is hate and a fireable offense then shouldn’t using hateful language against a group of children also be one?

 

[Bigboii]

Muslims are their own worst enemies here, this is not going to stop and it will happen again and again. Each time there is a reaction like this it will further the divide between muslims and everyone else.

The west are not going to bring in laws to stop people drawing cartoons of anything regardless. Amish people in America believe that people should not use modern technology but America is not going to pass laws to stop people from using modern technology, Amish just go about their own business and live the way they want to and everyone else lives their life the way they want to.

Same with muslims, they can live their life the way they want to and leave everyone else to live their life the way they want to, if you want to live somewhere they have laws to stop people from drawing cartoons then go live where there are laws that you want. People living in the UK do not have to follow laws from 1500 years ago. People that are not muslims do not have to follow muslim laws.

If they do try to introduce a law to stop people from drawing cartoons then they should also introduce a law that bans any books that are derogatory to homosexuals.

Man I agree with you but the basic principle still stands

Gov institutes should be apolitical and cartoon of Prophet pbuh isn't

That's the gist of issue with this situation (Britain have handled it pretty well so I have no issue with their response)

 

[Gilly]

Going by this twisted logic, groups shouldn’t care about racial slurs thrown at them because technically just saying a racial slur isn’t legal.

What a lot of people are missing is the fact that teacher wasn’t just following the course outline and teaching the usual stuff. He went out of his way to show derogatory pictures to a Muslim majority class and apparently equated the kids to terrorist by using language like “your people”. His only intention was to provoke and hurt the students not to teach. Would you be ok with your kids learning from a teacher who goes out of their way to target them for their race? Would it ok if a teacher told white kids, your people are mass shooters? This would likely not be illegal either so does that mean the teacher should be allowed to say that?


Like I said in another post, just because something is not Illegal does not mean people can’t lose their jobs over it. I mean teachers recently have been fired for using not using the preferred pronouns for students. So why shouldn’t this person be fired? If calling someone by a pronoun they don’t prefer is hate and a fireable offense then shouldn’t using hateful language against a group of children also be one?

And the teacher can sue the school for wrongful dismissal and get a tidy sum of money.

 

[Bigboii]

British Pakistanis and British Muslims in general funded the killings of innocent Muslims with their tax money. They clearly have no conscience.

Why would they make a big deal about this? They clearly don’t care about the image of Islam and the well-being of Muslims beyond offering convenient lip-service.

You have contributed to the killings of millions of muslims too with your tax money

You clearly don’t care about the image of Islam and the well-being of Muslims

Stop dehumanizing people

 

[El Generico]

And the teacher can sue the school for wrongful dismissal and get a tidy sum of money.

Well if it gets proven that he used words like “your people” for terrorist while talking to children . I doubt he will be getting anything.

In fact I would wager, a good lawyer can make a case for child abuse if it is proven he pretty much called a bunch of children terrorist. That could have been pretty traumatic for the kids. Hopefully proper legal action is taken cause last I checked child abuse is a crime.

 

[Gilly]

Going by this twisted logic, groups shouldn’t care about racial slurs thrown at them because technically just saying a racial slur isn’t legal.

Groups shouldent care about racial slurs because a racial slur cant hurt you unless you decide you want to be hurt by it.

As an example when I went to school Italians and Greeks were called dings and wogs as a racial slur, fast forward 40 years and Italians and Greeks are now proud to call themselves dings and wogs and even have TV shows like wog nation.

What happened is the italians and greeks decided not to react to the slur so everyone stopped because they didnt get a reaction.

 

[shaykh]

Remember bosnia , chechenya and 1930s Germany never assume we are safe , there's disgusting levels of racism sweeping across Europe in Denmark ���� I'm not 100% sure on this , but they have made a law where ethnic minorities cannot become a majority in one neighbourhood and they will be forced out and relocated to other areas , but the majority must be native white.

In other news france has banned halal slaughter whilst allowing kosher.

But people will still have their heads stuck in the sand like an ostrich .

Halal meat is not banned in France and neither is Kosher ...

There are three methods of ritual slaughter in France ...

1 - non halal/kosher which involves stunning that kills the animal
2 - stunning the animal but not killing it and then slitting the throat
3 - kill the animal without stunning it

No2 was deemed to not be in line with EU law and has thus been prohibited...
No3 is still legal...

All that has been done is a reformation of stunning to be in line with the EU directive...those butchers moaning about it are moaning cos the process of slaughter will take longer...some Muslim butchers use no2 and its effecting their business...

Plenty of butchers both halal/kosher only do no3 anyway so the reform doesn’t effect them in the slightest ...

 

[El Generico]

Groups shouldent care about racial slurs because a racial slur cant hurt you unless you decide you want to be hurt by it.

As an example when I went to school Italians and Greeks were called dings and wogs as a racial slur, fast forward 40 years and Italians and Greeks are now proud to call themselves dings and wogs and even have TV shows like wog nation.

What happened is the italians and greeks decided not to react to the slur so everyone stopped because they didnt get a reaction.

I can understand what you are trying to say but the racial slurs and hate shouldn’t be coming from a teacher. I get that people shouldn’t be provoked by hateful comments by some random people. However children shouldn’t have to put up with hate from their teacher.

 

[Bigboii]

People will make fun and criticize our religion

It's our job to respond to it and have a diolague and if it's a fool making a cartoon than ignore him for a fool he is

It's part of our evolution as a religion and we need to adapt with it

Society won't change we have to change with it

If you can respond, respond
if it's a fool ignore

It's our evolution as a group of followers of a great religion and we are certainly capable of evolving with it

 

[HitWicket]

I was listening to Talk Radio in the morning with a spokesman from the Ramadan foundation who mentioned most of what I wrote.

The interview is available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK6217hJCqw

I'm struggling to see the majority of what you claimed in there?

 

[in_cutter]

People provoke people all the time, if you have taught your children to get distressed by a cartoon then you need to address that issue, you will not live in a world where no one provokes anyone.

If you go off the deep end when someone pushes a button then that button is going to get pushed all the time. You cannot control what others do but you can control how you react.

the UK is not an islamic country so drawing a cartoon of Muhammad is not a crime.

The Catholic church had to let go of laws like this to move to a more tolerant society and if one religion demands that their laws have to apply to all then the floodgates will open and other religions can also demand that their laws apply too. Not to mention that there will be other minority groups that also want to have certain laws introduced.

And calling for someone to be sacked for their behaviour is also not wrong/against the law.

 

[Gilly]

I can understand what you are trying to say but the racial slurs and hate shouldn’t be coming from a teacher. I get that people shouldn’t be provoked by hateful comments by some random people. However children shouldn’t have to put up with hate from their teacher.

You are reacting to gossip, you dont even know what the teacher did or said.

 

[Robert]

Some people are claiming the teacher did nothing wrong. Sounds like this is a school where a lot of Muslim children go. Which means either they are directly paying for this education or their taxes are.
Now why would a teacher, who is drawing her or his salary from the fees/taxes paid by a lot of Muslims, actually have the audacity to insult our Holy Prophet? And why would she even do it in the first place if her heart was not full of hate?

To explain concept of blasphemy to the students.

I would struggle to explain the concept without giving an example of it.

You see to non-Muslims the concept of not drawing a picture of someone when it is impossible because nobody knows what he looked like because nobody ever drew a picture, is a bit baffling.

 

[Gilly]

And calling for someone to be sacked for their behaviour is also not wrong/against the law.

No one said it was, but it is against the law to harass a teacher when he is just going about his job. If you want to protest then protest to the people that can make the changes you want made but you cant go and harass a person just because you disagree with his rights.

 

[Bigboii]

No one is responding to the elephant in the room

Why is government involved in a controversial cartoon?

That's the biggest problem

 

[Bigboii]

To explain concept of blasphemy to the students.

I would struggle to explain the concept without giving an example of it.

You see to non-Muslims the concept of not drawing a picture of someone when it is impossible because nobody knows what he looked like because nobody ever drew a picture, is a bit baffling.

Your logic reminds me of this video

 

[KingKhanWC]

The interview is available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK6217hJCqw

I'm struggling to see the majority of what you claimed in there?

This is one reference , others I did state include parents who have spoken up. Its early days, give it time the truth will come out once the investigation has been concluded. But I believe 2 teachers are behind this. We know for sure the teacher showed a disturbing cartoon, thats enough for him to be suspended and to never teach at the school. Not sure if anything else really matters.

 

[El Generico]

You are reacting to gossip, you dont even know what the teacher did or said.

Well let’s wait for more details but for now it seems like what the teacher did was not part of routine curriculum otherwise others school would have done this as well.

From the information available, it seems he went out his way to set up this special class targeting Muslims. Hopefully the school investigation clears up this issue.

 

[rhony]

Well let’s wait for more details but for now it seems like what the teacher did was not part of routine curriculum otherwise others school would have done this as well.

From the information available, it seems he went out his way to set up this special class targeting Muslims. Hopefully the school investigation clears up this issue.

The teacher is an idiot. Especially after what happened in France. The west would have closed this matter ages ago if the reaction was just protests by regular people. Now, it's perceived as battle between free will and terrorism after the beheadings. They won't back down. The terrorists won't back down either.

 

[Bigboii]

Your logic reminds me of this video

The other post doesn't quite fullfil your logic here's the video of true practical "education"...

 

[shaykh]

To explain concept of blasphemy to the students.

I would struggle to explain the concept without giving an example of it.

You see to non-Muslims the concept of not drawing a picture of someone when it is impossible because nobody knows what he looked like because nobody ever drew a picture, is a bit baffling.

I’ve given a class on freedom of speech...it’s entirely possible to give an example without using primary source material...

Are you honestly saying you couldn’t discuss say Charlie Hebdo without displaying the images...you could even describe the images as news articles do...or use an article to initiate discussion...

There really is no need to use an image of Mohammed and I’m 100% sure the curriculum wouldn’t have mandated the teacher to do so...

 

[in_cutter]

No one said it was, but it is against the law to harass a teacher [b ]when he is just going about his job. [b/]If you want to protest then protest to the people that can make the changes you want made but you cant go and harass a person just because you disagree with his rights.

Where in a teacher’s job description does it state it is okay to show caricatures of certain people to children. He’s job is to teach..not insult or provoke.

 

[Gilly]

10,000 people have signed a petition to have the teacher reinstated.

 

[Gilly]

Where in a teacher’s job description does it state it is okay to show caricatures of certain people to children. He’s job is to teach..not insult or provoke.

Teachers show children cartoons of people everyday.

Where does it say anywhere that a non muslim person cannot show a picture of Muhammad?.

 

[shaykh]

10,000 people have signed a petition to have the teacher reinstated.

That’s simply evidence of some falling into this Islam V Free Speech debate...

The bit that you keep missing out is this was a teacher in his classroom showing an image that had a strong possibility of offending his students...and would not have been mandated by the curriculum...this notion that not showing an image of the Prophet infringes on the teachers ability to teach is nonsense...

Muslims have every right to protest...whether their reasoning is legitimate is immaterial ...people in London were protesting against fascism last week cos they don’t like lockdown ...

We also don’t yet know what the teacher did...but you have pretty much decided he’s done nothing wrong...for all we know KKWC’s version might be correct...

You mention intimidation at the protest ...well that’s not protesting...unsavoury elements within a protest which happens a lot...

 

[Giannis]

Teachers show children cartoons of people everyday.

Where does it say anywhere that a non muslim person cannot show a picture of Muhammad?.

You miss his point, a teacher or any one for that matter shouldn't provoke another person by insulting their religious beliefs especially if you're a teacher and that too at a tax funded public school. We have laws for breaching the peace here in the US, I don't know if things are different in south England.

 

[in_cutter]

Teachers show children cartoons of people everyday.

Where does it say anywhere that a non muslim person cannot show a picture of Muhammad?.

Jumping from pillar to pillar. You are the one who stated it is wrong to call for the teacher to be sacked then changed your stance above. When will you understand that some issues should be left out of school environment? So you are saying it is ok that the teacher presented a caricature that everyone knows is a sensitive issue..? What was the purpose of presenting this caricature to school children- can you answer that?

 

[in_cutter]

10,000 people have signed a petition to have the teacher reinstated.

And?

 

[Gilly]

That’s simply evidence of some falling into this Islam V Free Speech debate...

The bit that you keep missing out is this was a teacher in his classroom showing an image that had a strong possibility of offending his students...and would not have been mandated by the curriculum...this notion that not showing an image of the Prophet infringes on the teachers ability to teach is nonsense...

Muslims have every right to protest...whether their reasoning is legitimate is immaterial ...people in London were protesting against fascism last week cos they don’t like lockdown ...

We also don’t yet know what the teacher did...but you have pretty much decided he’s done nothing wrong...for all we know KKWC’s version might be correct...

You mention intimidation at the protest ...well that’s not protesting...unsavoury elements within a protest which happens a lot...

I did say that muslims could protest, that is their right, but they dont have the right to force the school to shut down for two days forcing children to resort to remote learning. They dont have the right to harass the teacher.

I have yet to hear of anything the teacher has done wrong, if he has done something wrong then the school will take the appropriate action.

 

[in_cutter]

Teachers show children cartoons of people everyday.

Where does it say anywhere that a non muslim person cannot show a picture of Muhammad?.

And you stated ‘the teacher was just doing he’s job’. Are you serious? In other words you agree teachers are allowed to insult a religious group?

 

[in_cutter]

I did say that muslims could protest, that is their right, but they dont have the right to force the school to shut down for two days forcing children to resort to remote learning. They dont have the right to harass the teacher.

I have yet to hear of anything the teacher has done wrong, if he has done something wrong then the school will take the appropriate action.

Nobody forced the school to shut down for two days...

 

[Gilly]

Jumping from pillar to pillar. You are the one who stated it is wrong to call for the teacher to be sacked then changed your stance above. When will you understand that some issues should be left out of school environment? So you are saying it is ok that the teacher presented a caricature that everyone knows is a sensitive issue..? What was the purpose of presenting this caricature to school children- can you answer that?

You and I both do not know what happened or why the teacher did what he/she did.

From the information I have read so far the teacher was discussing blasphemy and used the cartoon as an example. Why would anyone teach their children to get distressed over a cartoon.

 

[in_cutter]

You and I both do not know what happened or why the teacher did what he/she did.

From the information I have read so far the teacher was discussing blasphemy and used the cartoon as an example. Why would anyone teach their children to get distressed over a cartoon.

And btw although it’s their right, I don’t agree with how the protesters are going about this.

 

[Gilly]

Nobody forced the school to shut down for two days...

Demonstrators gathered for a second day on Friday morning, but had moved on by mid-afternoon.

The school, which had been due to break up for the Easter holiday, was understood to have switched to a day of remote learning and the gates remained locked.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-56523179

 

[Gilly]

And you stated ‘the teacher was just doing he’s job’. Are you serious? In other words you agree teachers are allowed to insult a religious group?

Muslims should be teaching their children that this is not insulting their religion, why teach children that a cartoon is something to get distressed over. Seeing a cartoon is not going to cause any damage to anyone or anything, its completely harmless and being able to control your emotions is far more important.

 

[shaykh]

I did say that muslims could protest, that is their right, but they dont have the right to force the school to shut down for two days forcing children to resort to remote learning. They dont have the right to harass the teacher.

I have yet to hear of anything the teacher has done wrong, if he has done something wrong then the school will take the appropriate action.

The teacher has been suspended...those protesting want further action taken ...

The context of how the picture was used is still not clear...that said I find it bizarre that you feel showing the image in the first place in a classroom is acceptable given the real world context...

 

[Gilly]

The teacher has been suspended...those protesting want further action taken ...

The context of how the picture was used is still not clear...that said I find it bizarre that you feel showing the image in the first place in a classroom is acceptable given the real world context...

In the real world religion is your own private business and you do not let it impact on anyone else, you have the right to practice your religion and follow it how you wish within the law of the land. You have no right to push your beliefs onto anyone else or expect anyone to adhere to your religious practices.

Some religions believe you should not work on the sabbath as it is a sin which is fine and they can follow that if they wish but they can not expect others to follow their beliefs. If muslims do not want to draw or see cartoons of Muhammad then that is fine they can adhere to that but they cannot expect others to adhere to it.

 

[Bigboii]

Muslims should be teaching their children that this is not insulting their religion, why teach children that a cartoon is something to get distressed over. Seeing a cartoon is not going to cause any damage to anyone or anything, its completely harmless and being able to control your emotions is far more important.

They'll teach it in their private residence not in "public" schools

 

[shaykh]

In the real world religion is your own private business and you do not let it impact on anyone else, you have the right to practice your religion and follow it how you wish within the law of the land. You have no right to push your beliefs onto anyone else or expect anyone to adhere to your religious practices.

Some religions believe you should not work on the sabbath as it is a sin which is fine and they can follow that if they wish but they can not expect others to follow their beliefs. If muslims do not want to draw or see cartoons of Muhammad then that is fine they can adhere to that but they cannot expect others to adhere to it.

As a teacher I also have no right to impose my beliefs on anyone else...and I am also instructed to appreciate local sensitivities and to understand the people in my class...it’s part of being a good teacher...

Now in Islam images of their Prophet are forbidden...so why would you even consider showing that in class?...there’s absolutely no need for it...I wouldn’t show an image mocking Jews or Christians either...and I’m not going to defend a teachers right to do so...

Muslims in this context aren’t forcing anything onto the teacher...this isn’t like some Muslims protesting evolution being taught...ie being unhappy with the curriculum...that’s forcing something...if anything in this context the teacher is forcing something onto the Muslims in his class...in the French example...the teacher was giving a class on freedom of expression...and he at least gave Muslims the option of leaving the classroom for that portion...

Your position is Muslims are forcing the teacher not to use the image ...well it’s not a necessity for him to use the picture...it’s not mandated by the curriculum...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Muslims should be teaching their children that this is not insulting their religion, why teach children that a cartoon is something to get distressed over. Seeing a cartoon is not going to cause any damage to anyone or anything, its completely harmless and being able to control your emotions is far more important.

I was taught religous studies but was never shown such images or any images of religious figures in a negative light.

This is an extension of Islamaphobia which was used after 911 in order to demonise Muslims so nations like yours and mine could go and bomb children while they were asleep. It seems you are classic example of someone who has been brainwashed by this war propganda for the last 2 decades so cant make the connection. The teacher wasnt doing war propopanda but seems equally brainwashed. Muslims will do everything in their power lawfully to combat Islamaphobes, in which they have suceeded in many areas of the UK.

Its harmless to you, in fact you prob enjoy it but please dont speak on behalf of others.

 

[Manunited18]

The day UK govt decides to ban something, Muslims will be able to do zilch. UK is a part of NATO and wages war on muslim majority nations. Is ally of Israel etc, what has this political strong will achieved?

Pakistanis Bangladeshis who are mostly Muslims are the poorest community in UK. I dont know what you are boasting about.

Appreciate your concerns but its far from reality, what is a sad reality is India has some of the most substandard conditions for millions who are living below poverty line and basic human standards, yet you continue to spout rubbish.

 

[Gilly]

I was taught religous studies but was never shown such images or any images of religious figures in a negative light.

This is an extension of Islamaphobia which was used after 911 in order to demonise Muslims so nations like yours and mine could go and bomb children while they were asleep. It seems you are classic example of someone who has been brainwashed by this war propganda for the last 2 decades so cant make the connection. The teacher wasnt doing war propopanda but seems equally brainwashed. Muslims will do everything in their power lawfully to combat Islamaphobes, in which they have suceeded in many areas of the UK.

Its harmless to you, in fact you prob enjoy it but please dont speak on behalf of others.

I do recognize when someone is a religious extremist and realize that its pointless to engage with them because they are incapable of having a intelligent discussion.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I do recognize when someone is a religious extremist and realize that its pointless to engage with them because they are incapable of having a intelligent discussion.

Everyone recognises a white facist too who appears reguarly to attack people of colour behind their keyboard. Maybe its in the genes because the ancestors were criminals?

 

[Manunited18]

Muslims are their own worst enemies here, this is not going to stop and it will happen again and again. Each time there is a reaction like this it will further the divide between muslims and everyone else.

The west are not going to bring in laws to stop people drawing cartoons of anything regardless. Amish people in America believe that people should not use modern technology but America is not going to pass laws to stop people from using modern technology, Amish just go about their own business and live the way they want to and everyone else lives their life the way they want to.

Same with muslims, they can live their life the way they want to and leave everyone else to live their life the way they want to, if you want to live somewhere they have laws to stop people from drawing cartoons then go live where there are laws that you want. People living in the UK do not have to follow laws from 1500 years ago. People that are not muslims do not have to follow muslim laws.

If they do try to introduce a law to stop people from drawing cartoons then they should also introduce a law that bans any books that are derogatory to homosexuals.

Aborigines SAY HI!

 

[KingKhanWC]

Aborigines SAY HI!

Only a few left now, most tribes were extreminated not long after convicts arrived. We should be thankful, most of them left the green lands of England long time ago.

 

[Manunited18]

Only a few left now, most tribes were extreminated not long after convicts arrived. We should be thankful, most of them left the green lands of England long time ago.

Feel sorry for these convicts, what is there true identity lol.

 

[Bigboii]

I do recognize when someone is a religious extremist and realize that its pointless to engage with them because they are incapable of having a intelligent discussion.

If we ignore the name calling
Dude let's be honest you refuse to respond to most of the people if you have no answer for tham...

I have seen some great counterarguments no response
Even with shakh you are clearly not responding to the essence of the guys argument

 

[KingKhanWC]

Feel sorry for these convicts, what is there true identity lol.

Many started of petty thieves but after arriving in a new land, they upgraded to rape, murder amongst other fetishes of criminals. Now their ancestors say everyone has the right to abuse others and ironically these people call others extremists if they decide to stand up for themselves or others.

 

[Bigboii]

True. Sadly, there are several on this forum.

[MENTION=732]Gilly[/MENTION], CJ, KKWC all of em are extremest just on different ends of the spectrum I see no difference...