Wahab Riaz vs Junaid Khan in ODIs

[sadida97]

Who should be the third pacer alongside hassan and amir ?

Points for Wahab:1-more pace and more aggression.
2-Can produce some magical spells.
3-Better fielder.
4-Better batsman
5-More experienced


Points for junaid:1-Less expensive
2-more consistent with his line and length
3-Better bowler in the final overs.
4-Can share the new ball with Amir, as hassan does better when comes to bowl after 8 or so overs have been completed.

 

[Arsalan Pro]

Junaid Khan for sure.

 

[shaz619]

Wahab tends to stand up in ICC tournaments and in fact performed better then Junaid in the previous Champions Trophy which also happened to be in England. If I had to pick between the two I'd take Wahab.

 

[WC-Passion]

Should probably look to move on from both but if I had to chose I'd go for Wahab.

 

[Hawkeye]

Junaid Khan : Biggest bottler in any tournament

Wahab Riaz : Somehow always ends up doing great in tournaments, especially ICC tournaments.


Both are absolutely mediocre and will RUIN the team on most occasions though.

 

[sadida97]

Junaid Khan : Biggest bottler in any tournament

Wahab Riaz : Somehow always ends up doing great in tournaments, especially ICC tournaments.


Both are absolutely mediocre and will RUIN the team on most occasions though.

So you would rather want wahab to play in the CT ?

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Wahab riaz odi bowling average in the past 2 years : 54

Excluding Zimbabwea : 64

Yet always considered an automatic selection

To answer the op, id take a punt on Fahim

 

[ads101]

Junaid Khan : Biggest bottler in any tournament

Wahab Riaz : Somehow always ends up doing great in tournaments, especially ICC tournaments.


Both are absolutely mediocre and will RUIN the team on most occasions though.

Sigh this is how i feel too lol. I'd play Riaz only because it's an ICC event. Plus English conditions might suit him more than asian conditions IMO.

I have no idea why he does this, but it makes sense taking a punt that he will yet again step up for the tournament. We don't have many other options too anyway, might as well go with the settled line up.

 

[sadida97]

4-1 for Wahab then (1 for fahim)

 

[ads101]

Big difference IMO is that Junaid has never really looked the same since times like the series in India where he was doing well. He's been on the decline.

While Riaz has had moments of brilliance even of late. Even amongst the trash, Riaz's bowling in Aus in the last world cup was some of his best stuff I've seen him bowl.

Riaz is irritating as hell lol. I dunno how someone who has now had so much experience can't string together consistent performances.

 

[Barragan]

Junaid.

riaz got hammered on these placid pitches last time and almost conceded the highest runs by a bowler.

Give Junaid the warm ups and the 1st game to see how he goes, after that keep him or replace him with Fahim, but definitely not riaz again.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

for those are saying riaz had a good champions trophy these are his stats


3 games, 3 wickets, average 37

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

of his 16 wickets in the 2015 world cup

9 were against Ireland, Zimbwae and UAE

the 2011 world cup shouldnt even be considered as that was before the t20 new ball rule, riaz could get insane reverse swing and had a great record at the time. Cant do that anymore


Honestly if this guy was considered handsome he would have played the games he has.

 

[Syed1]

People who are calling for Wahab's selection on the basis of his tournament performances have no bowling sense. Wahab has been pretty mediocre in tournaments as well apart from that fifer against India and spell against Watson. Also the last time Pakistan played in England phasst Wahab got smashed for 100 odd in an innings.

Garbage bowler who keeps getting selected because of his supposed 'aggression'. Kohli will have him for lunch.

 

[shaz619]

for those are saying riaz had a good champions trophy these are his stats


3 games, 3 wickets, average 37

It's not about whether he was decent or bad, he is being compared to Junaids Khan who averaged over 100 in the same tournament and took only 1 wicket. Wahab bowled a great spell against the WI in CT 2013 but we really had no runs on the board but he gave us a sniff.

 

[ads101]

People who are calling for Wahab's selection on the basis of his tournament performances have no bowling sense. Wahab has been pretty mediocre in tournaments as well apart from that fifer against India and spell against Watson. Also the last time Pakistan played in England phasst Wahab got smashed for 100 odd in an innings.

Garbage bowler who keeps getting selected because of his supposed 'aggression'. Kohli will have him for lunch.

he's had some trash performances at tournaments too, you're right, but he has had some performances that everyone remembers too where he's really stood up.

I'd have preferred if riaz was outed years ago, he just wasn't good enough. But we haven't tried enough players/or players we have tried are out now. Atm we have junaid who seems not to be the bowler he used to be and has come back after a long lay off, and untested options e.g. fahim.

Really we should have been giving people chances (including junaid) for a few series before the event not two matches. That's how we discovered Hasan Ali after all. We're just stuck with very few options.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

It's not about whether he was decent or bad, he is being compared to Junaids Khan who averaged over 100 in the same tournament and took only 1 wicket. Wahab bowled a great spell against the WI in CT 2013 but we really had no runs on the board but he gave us a sniff.

people are defending him saying he had a great tournament he didnt. Just because gets Angry and cranks up the pace doesnt mean we should keep him. Overall Junaid has been far better even after his form slump

Ideally id have neither which is why im saying take a punt of Fahim


It would be nice if Riaz could have one his spells when Pakistan have a good chance on winning, not to make defeats respectable

he lost far more games for Pakistan than one

When is the last time actually that Riaz won us a game in limited overs cricket ?

 

[shaz619]

Fans must seriously have a low IQ if they believe Junaid at present is the better option then Wahab if it came down to selecting one of these guys, Junaids is not the same bowler who made Kohli dance like a chicken anymore and Wahab despite lacking consistency can still bowl some good spells in between and has a decent track record in ICC tournaments, people pointing out his numbers vs certain opponents don't have a clue; the fact remains that every game in a tournament is must win with bigger stakes but not like he's not bowled well against top sides in some crunch games.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Fans must seriously have a low IQ if they believe Junaid at present is the better option then Wahab if it came down to selecting one of these guys, Junaids is not the same bowler who made Kohli dance like a chicken anymore and Wahab despite lacking consistency can still bowl some good spells in between and has a decent track record in ICC tournaments, people pointing out his numbers vs certain opponents don't have a clue; the fact remains that every game in a tournament is must win with bigger stakes but not like he's not bowled well against top sides in some crunch games.

Myth when you look at in context

Like i said many times discount the 2011 world cup riaz sadly doesnt have an old ball to work with, he isnt gonna get the ball reversing so early like he did against Virat and Yuvi

in 2015 wc he did well, but looking at in context, 9 out 16 wickets against minnows

been trash in world t20s been poor in his one ct overall


now that we have amir and Hasan, riaz cant hide anymore behind people like Anwar Ali

 

[shaz619]

people are defending him saying he had a great tournament he didnt. Just because gets Angry and cranks up the pace doesnt mean we should keep him. Overall Junaid has been far better even after his form slump

Ideally id have neither which is why im saying take a punt of Fahim


It would be nice if Riaz could have one his spells when Pakistan have a good chance on winnings, not to make defeats respectable

I'd not mind taking a gamble with Fahim actually, but between Wahab and Junaids I'd take Wahab in a heartbeat; he did well in one of the games though in that tournament and did better compared to Junaid Khan but overall it was average. If were playing a bilateral series in England I'd have no issue giving Junaid a go.

 

[shaz619]

Myth when you look at in context

Like i said many times discount the 2011 world cup riaz sadly doesnt have an old ball to work with, he isnt gonna get the ball reversing so early like he did against Virat and Yuvi

in 2015 wc he did well, but looking at in context, 9 out 16 wickets against minnows

been trash in world t20s been poor in his one ct overall


now that we have amir and Hasan, riaz cant hide anymore behind people like Anwar Ali

Would you prefer those 9 wickets against "minnows" in a World Cup or a top 5 side in a bilateral series?

Also, a World Cup is played among top sides, minnows and associates; you can only take as many wickets as you're able to among top sides and wickets during the KO stages especially are to be valued. Should we belittle India's win over Kenya in the WC SF in 2003? My point is these games are not to be taken for granted and we of all people should know that after embarrassing defeats in 1999 and 2007, but even then like you say he did bowl well overall in the grand scheme in 2015 WC.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Would you prefer those 9 wickets against "minnows" in a World Cup or a top 5 side in a bilateral series?

Also, a World Cup is played among top sides, minnows and associates; you can only take as many wickets as you're able to among top sides and wickets during the KO stages especially are to be valued. Should we belittle India's win over Kenya in the WC SF in 2003? My point is these games are not to be taken for granted and we of all people should know that after embarrassing defeats in 1999 and 2007, but even then like you say he did bowl well overall in the grand scheme in 2015 WC.

Pakistan's fast bowling isnt in as big hole back then as it is now.

Further if Riaz had a decent overall record you can over look such things. However when you look at his ODI career you see a guy who has been poor. Its one thing if Dale steyn is bashing minnows,because he bashes everyone else ( or used). Riaz on the other hand has been so underwhelming, you just know most of the time he is coming to undo the work of the bowling before him

 

[shaz619]

Pakistan's fast bowling isnt in as big hole back then as it is now.

Further if Riaz had a decent overall record you can over look such things. However when you look at his ODI career you see a guy who has been poor. Its one thing if Dale steyn is bashing minnows,because he bashes everyone else ( or used). Riaz on the other hand has been so underwhelming, you just know most of the time he is coming to undo the work of the bowling before him

This isn't a thread to discuss Wahab individually and I admit he has been poor barring performances in some ICC events and the inconsistency is incredibly frustrating but sadly our resources have not been the best and we've not developed anyone during that time so if the team give a chance to someone like Fahim we can't really argue with that. But this thread is about Wahab vs Junaid Khan.

In the only tournaments which Junaid Khan has featured in these are his stats:

ICC CT 2013:

3 games, 1 wicket at 102

Asia Cup 2013/14:

4 games, 1 wicket at 177

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

This isn't a thread to discuss Wahab individually and I admit he has been poor barring performances in some ICC events and the inconsistency is incredibly frustrating but sadly our resources have not been the best and we've not developed anyone during that time so if the team give a chance to someone like Fahim we can't really argue with that. But this thread is about Wahab vs Junaid Khan.

In the only tournaments which Junaid Khan has featured in these are his stats:

ICC CT 2013:

3 games, 1 wicket at 102

Asia Cup 2013/14:

4 games, 1 wicket at 177

yeah he been awful in them, but even despite that Junaid helped deliever us a series in south africa and india , probably our biggest odi achiements in the past decade

what can riaz say except one fast fiery spell, yeah it deserved more, but that's life

 

[shaz619]

yeah he been awful in them, but even despite that Junaid helped deliever us a series in south africa and india , probably our biggest odi achiements in the past decade

what can riaz say except one fast fiery spell, yeah it deserved more, but that's life

Those were special wins, if you have that much confidence in Junaid then fair enough each to their own; good luck to him.

 

[saeedhk]

Both are equally mediocre;I hope they are never selected again.

 

[Syed1]

Both are equally mediocre;I hope they are never selected again.

Best post of thread. Both don't deserve to be there.

 

[pakistanigoneaussie]

Those were special wins, if you have that much confidence in Junaid then fair enough each to their own; good luck to him.

i don't have much confidence in him at all, just more than riaz, who will probably still term up for ultimately meaningless spell

ideally id just gamble on fahim

 

[msb314]

Defiinitely Junaid who is far better with the new ball and at the death than Wahab.

 

[waleed88]

Wahab tends to stand up in ICC tournaments and in fact performed better then Junaid in the previous Champions Trophy which also happened to be in England. If I had to pick between the two I'd take Wahab.

He was mediocre in CT 2013, Junaid hasn't played any World Tournaments except CT 2013 (ODIs)

 

[Justcrazy]

Wahab can never be consistent because of his wrist position . He will always rely on pace to get wickets.

Junaid on the other hand has potential to bowl economical spells as well.

 

[Hasan123]

Junaid in LO and Wahab in tests.

Wahab shouldn't even be in the champions trophy squad. If Junaid flops in the champions trophy, I would discard him for a while.

 

[Hawkeye]

Junaid was our WORST bowler last time in Champions Trophy.

 

[JattMaula]

Why not both of them?

5 batters + 1wkb + 1 genuine all-rounder + 4 pacers.

#paceispace

 

[waleed88]

Junaid was our WORST bowler last time in Champions Trophy.

2 complete matches, 1 a t20 with nothing to defend, rain affected..

Compared to that the exposure Wahab has had over the years, from bowling in England Test Matches, Newzealand, South Africa, the guy doesn't have a thinking brain cell on what to do when a batsmen goes after him...

 

[ExplicitAI]

I'd much rather prefer Amir and Junaid opening the bowling together, Wahab can't seem to buy a wicket and proves to be expensive nearly all the time. Amir, Junaid and Hasan are the best combination we can have in our bowling department.

 

[A.A.Z]

Wahab's 2011 WC SF spell had a lot to do with reverse swing which he can't get in odi's anymore. Wahab's 2015 WC QF spell had a lot to do with pace and bounce in the wicket. He will only get that bounce on Australian and certain South African wickets. This is the reason Wahab was our best bowler in the Australia tests recently over the course of the whole series. English pitches have good carry but not steep bounce in the wicket with which Wahab can produce another Watson spell. Wahab was absolutely terrible in the odi series in England last year, his odi shelf life has expired.

Junaid didn't bowl as badly in the 2013 CT as people here are suggesting he did. He was quite economical and in 2 games he had no score to defend, against South Africa we bowled well as a unit and Junaid picked up a wicket and gave less runs than Wahab who went wicketless. Junaid can bowl with the new ball unlike Wahab and constantly troubled Warner and got him out early in the recent odi series down under a few times. Warner was in red hot form and punished us towards the end of the odi series as well as the preceding test series. Junaid can bowl at the death as well, he once defended 9 of the last over to make Pakistan the only Asian side with an odi series win in South Africa.

Wahab is needed in tests for his pace and bounce as well as reverse swing at an high speed if the pitch is flat or flattens out. He can make something happen when there is nothing in the pitch. But, his game is just not suited to modern odi's unless there is steep bounce in the wicket, which he's not about to get anytime soon. Junaid with Amir and Hasan can make for a formidable attack with Imad, Shadab, and most likely the undroppable Hafeez in tow. But, this being Pakistan Wahab has bought himself a ticket till the 2019 WC, and if he isn't selected the casual fan will blame his non selection for us not winning the cup because in their minds he is a messiah figure who can make anything happen because the last Pakistan odi they probably watched was the 2015 WC QF.

 

[Sarfarazian92]

I'd pick Junaid only because I don't want Hassan Ali to bowl with the new ball.