Waqar Younis applies for position of Bowling Coach, opts not to apply for Head Coach role [Post #84]

[saeed5646]

Reports are Waqar Younis has applied for the national team bowling coach's job.

 

[Boi]

He is the best man for the bowling coach job. Hopefully he gets it.

 

[shah_1]

I remember our bowling was decent in WC2015. Even Rahat Ali and Sohail Khan were bowling well in the WC.

He was never a good head coach but he will do well as a bowling coach.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Im all for WAQAR to be the bowling coach... Pak did very well in the bowling department when he is the bowling coach and also when he is the head coach...


But he shouldnt be the head coach as he is one of the worst, during his second stint he never had a settled batting order always changes the batting order....

 

[CleverSir]

Would not be a bad hire for Bowling coach. I wonder if he is just done with being Head Coach and wants to just focus on coaching one aspect now. It would be quite a step down to go from HC to BC especially for the same team.

 

[Saj]

Reports are Waqar Younis has applied for the national team bowling coach's job.

I've asked him if it's true.

 

[saeed5646]

He is the best man for the bowling coach job. Hopefully he gets it.

Same feeling. He is legendary bowler every bowler will love to see

 

[Markhor]

God forbid.

Under Waqar's second tenure as coach, our ODI bowling average was 40 which was amongst the worst in the world.

 

[Saj]

Waqar has in recent times maintained that he doesn't want to get involved in coaching Pakistan again.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Would be ideal.

 

[shah_1]

God forbid.

Under Waqar's second tenure as coach, our ODI bowling average was 40 which was amongst the worst in the world.

You need to watch the WC2015 matches again and see how our fast bowling clicked. We lost Ajmal and Hafeez in quick spain of time, Afrdi lost his bowling form and having Anwar Ali in the team didn't help either. He didn't have any bowlers to work with. You can't make donkeys into horses.
See the list

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=wickets;spanmax1=10+apr+2016;spanmin1=01+may+2014;spanval1=span;team=7;template=results;type=bowling

Don't blame it all on Waqar Younis. He was a poor head coach but fast bowlers did well under him despite being extremely limted. Wahab Riaz excelled the most under Vicky bhai, even Rahat and Sohail were decent despite being nothing bowler.

 

[aloo paratha]

He would be an excellent bowling coach. Even mediocre bowlers like Rahat Ali and Wahab did well under him.

 

[shah_1]

He would be an excellent bowling coach. Even mediocre bowlers like Rahat Ali and Wahab did well under him.

This

Rahat avearged 30 in test cricket

Wahab riaz took 46 wickets in 30 ODI matches at the strike rate of 32.5

 

[shah_1]

Ideally you want someone like Shane Bond but people like him aren't applying then Waqar is 100 times better option than like of Railu Kethas (Azhar Mahmood, and Muhammad Akram)

 

[Savak]

Restricting him to a specific focused role will work. Giving him too much broad authority which he does not deserve will be disastrous

 

[Slog]

Waqar would be a great bowling coach and is a better head coach than the con man of a head coach we let go of texently

 

[Hasan123]

Waqar would be a great bowling coach and is a better head coach than the con man of a head coach we let go of texently

Such a great head coach who no one wants to hire in any capacity.

 

[Boi]

He also did great work with the likes of Gul and Rana. Back in 05/06, Rana Naved became number 1 ODI bowler under the coaching of Waqar I think.

Rubbish head coach but definitely a good choice to work as bowling coach.

 

[Markhor]

You need to watch the WC2015 matches again and see how our fast bowling clicked. We lost Ajmal and Hafeez in quick spain of time, Afrdi lost his bowling form and having Anwar Ali in the team didn't help either. He didn't have any bowlers to work with. You can't make donkeys into horses.
See the list

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=wickets;spanmax1=10+apr+2016;spanmin1=01+may+2014;spanval1=span;team=7;template=results;type=bowling

Don't blame it all on Waqar Younis. He was a poor head coach but fast bowlers did well under him despite being extremely limted. Wahab Riaz excelled the most under Vicky bhai, even Rahat and Sohail were decent despite being nothing bowler.

No I will hold Waqar accountable because his fans tout him as a legendary fast bowler who'd sort our bowling in no time.

But THIS is the record of Pakistani bowlers under the supposed Pep Guardiola of cricket - WORST in ODIs out of all major teams !

 

[Markhor]

Waqar would be a great bowling coach and is a better head coach than the con man of a head coach we let go of texently

That's why we were tottering in 9th and 7th in ODI and T20 rankings when the Pep Guardiola of cricket was sacked.

 

[shah_1]

No I will hold Waqar accountable because his fans tout him as a legendary fast bowler who'd sort our bowling in no time.

But THIS is the record of Pakistani bowlers under the supposed Pep Guardiola of cricket - WORST in ODIs out of all major teams !

View attachment 94103

I just gave out my reasons for him being the bowling coach, won't say it again.

Using stats without dissection is useless

 

[shah_1]

He also did great work with the likes of Gul and Rana. Back in 05/06, Rana Naved became number 1 ODI bowler under the coaching of Waqar I think.

Rubbish head coach but definitely a good choice to work as bowling coach.

Really?

People still doubt this legend

 

[Prince of Pakistan]

Waqar is the best bowling coach if:

- He is limited to giving advice + bowling plans to bowlers.
- Doesn't mingle with selection decisions
- Isn't a part of the team management.

Then only this guy is gold and very valuable.

 

[sshakir411]

Waqar can’t work with any other head coach. Will try to influence selection and what not. Waqar should be made head bowling coach at NCA or whatever they call it now. Waqar should be handed over all young medium pace and quick bowlers. That’s where Waqar will have biggest impact

 

[Justcrazy]

Pakistan need to get in specialists like Bond , Donald etc.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Waqar Younis has applied for the position of Pakistan Bowling Coach. There is also a possibility that he may apply for the position of Pakistan Head Coach <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1164796889704718336?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 23, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[shah_1]

He should stay away from being a head coach

 

[hussain.r97]

I'll happily take Waqar as bowling coach, our pacers always did well under him despite being limited players like Wahab, Rahat, Sohail Khan etc.

 

[MenInG]

Poll added.

 

[Savak]

Is the past not enough? A guy who has always thrown his players under the bus in pressure situations, who has been a failure of a head coach in all his tenures is going to apply for the head coach role again after he got fired in 2016? Does anyone remember his ******** recommendation to make Azhar Ali the odi captain?

 

[Last Monetarist]

Waqar should stay away, he's had two bites at the cherry with middling success. He needs to turn his attention towards grassroots cricket.

 

[IMMY69]

I would consider him for bowling coach..
Still think he can be useful but only in this role.

 

[topspin]

I did say if Pakistan were to ditch Mickey Arthur we'd be left with substandard coaches like Waqar Younis and his clones (like Misbah) being the prime candidates for the Head Coach role.

I knew PCB would be short of choices because you can't expect applications flooding in from high calibre coaches from overseas, as they don't deem the role of coaching a mediocre team to be anywhere near prestigious enough of adding to their CVs.

 

[jazbati]

Nahi bhai. Never again. Stay away please

 

[Markhor]

I just gave out my reasons for him being the bowling coach, won't say it again.

Using stats without dissection is useless

Are you arguing that Waqar had no influence over selection of fast bowlers ?

Even if you think he made the most from limited resources forced upon him, none of those fast bowlers you listed have a bowling average below 30 so their performances were nothing special. In that 2015 WC I recall two hammerings our bowlers received at hands of India and West Indies.

Waqar had no eye for talent. He kept persisting with his blue eyed boys like Wahab and Rahat, and did an injustice to youngsters like Sadaf Hussain who was selected for a Caribbean tour in 2011 to not get a single game and never to be seen again despite strong domestic performances.

Waqar couldn't even get a job as Australian bowling coach yet we made this guy head coach twice, and both stints ended in flames. I respect his passion and playing career, but great players don't always make great coaches.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Are you arguing that Waqar had no influence over selection of fast bowlers ?

Even if you think he made the most from limited resources forced upon him, none of those fast bowlers you listed have a bowling average below 30 so their performances were nothing special. In that 2015 WC I recall two hammerings our bowlers received at hands of India and West Indies.

Waqar had no eye for talent. He kept persisting with his blue eyed boys like Wahab and Rahat, and did an injustice to youngsters like Sadaf Hussain who was selected for a Caribbean tour in 2011 to not get a single game and never to be seen again despite strong domestic performances.

Waqar couldn't even get a job as Australian bowling coach yet we made this guy head coach twice, and both stints ended in flames. I respect his passion and playing career, but great players don't always make great coaches.

wahab is good. Always has been good.

 

[Titan24]

Will be a decent bowling coach just like he proved before as well.

 

[Titan24]

I did say if Pakistan were to ditch Mickey Arthur we'd be left with substandard coaches like Waqar Younis and his clones (like Misbah) being the prime candidates for the Head Coach role.

I knew PCB would be short of choices because you can't expect applications flooding in from high calibre coaches from overseas, as they don't deem the role of coaching a mediocre team to be anywhere near prestigious enough of adding to their CVs.

Mickey Arthur with his mediocrity couldnt have stayed for ever even if we wanted to stick with him.

If Mickey is an excellent coach and Pak is a mediocre team than why would he wanted to add this to his CV? Only one thing can be correct as per the statement you are making.

 

[Oneking]

Will his ego allow him...

 

[topspin]

Mickey Arthur with his mediocrity couldnt have stayed for ever even if we wanted to stick with him.

If Mickey is an excellent coach and Pak is a mediocre team than why would he wanted to add this to his CV? Only one thing can be correct as per the statement you are making.

Mickey is far from perfect but retaining him was in the best interests of team because there is no coach from Pakistan who is better than him. These ex-players are a lot worse! - Waqar's two stints and Javed Miandad's three stints epitomise this.

I still recall you wanted Mohsin Khan to replace Mickey (only a few months ago), so with the greatest of respect I can't take your criticism of MA seriously.

 

[Icon]

I'm alright with him being our bowling coach but head coach... NAH

 

[aloo paratha]

Don't apply for head coach man... You'd make a great bowling coach. Hope PCB has the brains.

 

[Sunny_majoka]

Don't think he will be right choice as a bowling coach considering he was ex head coach

 

[moghul]

No team, not just Pakistan can't ask for better bowling coach than Waqar.

 

[Mirpur express]

I’d rather have M Akram , I remember his emphasis on the very basics i.e no balls

 

[Titan24]

Mickey is far from perfect but retaining him was in the best interests of team because there is no coach from Pakistan who is better than him. These ex-players are a lot worse! - Waqar's two stints and Javed Miandad's three stints epitomise this.

I still recall you wanted Mohsin Khan to replace Mickey (only a few months ago), so with the greatest of respect I can't take your criticism of MA seriously.

So no coach in Pakistan can loose every single test series except 1 in last year or 2 including 2 home series losses in tests?

I dont remember vouching for Mohsin Khan as a head coach but will take him anyday over Mickey Arther as a Test match coach. He won more series in his few months in test cricket than Arther in 2 or more years. Yes team was different but than Super coach like mickey Arther should be doing better.

 

[moghul]

No team, not just Pakistan, can ask for better bowling coach than Waqar Younis.

 

[Snowflake]

There's no doubting that he'll be a good bowing coach.

However, there's also no doubting that he won't be stay within his assigned role. Waqar is extremely opinionated and has a huge ego. He's also a desi which means that there's no way he'll work as a professional within the parameters of a bowling coach.

I don't think any head coach would want to work with Waqar as his bowling coach.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

As I have said many times before when Waqar was around during Woolmer days as bowling coach that was the time I saw him really develop the bowlers he had then. Asif, Rana Naved and even Umar Gul got back to his best and his pace and accuracy was up but since then he has not lived up to much standards at all.

 

[MMHS]

A very good prospect for fast bowling coaches. Bowling coach should be local, so that he can mentor the bowlers (rather than "coach"). Also, added sweetener is that this should keep him out of commentary box and Head Coach's role

 

[Markhor]

Mickey is far from perfect but retaining him was in the best interests of team because there is no coach from Pakistan who is better than him. These ex-players are a lot worse! - Waqar's two stints and Javed Miandad's three stints epitomise this.

I still recall you wanted Mohsin Khan to replace Mickey (only a few months ago), so with the greatest of respect I can't take your criticism of MA seriously.

How dare you ?! Don't you know Mickey not only singlehandedly masterminded the downfall of Pakistan cricket, but is also responsible for 9/11, climate and the Rwandan genocide.

But Waqar is the Pep Guardiola of cricket as per his fans.

 

[Markhor]

So no coach in Pakistan can loose every single test series except 1 in last year or 2 including 2 home series losses in tests?

I dont remember vouching for Mohsin Khan as a head coach but will take him anyday over Mickey Arther as a Test match coach. He won more series in his few months in test cricket than Arther in 2 or more years. Yes team was different but than Super coach like mickey Arther should be doing better.

All Mohsin did was sip tea in the pavilion and piggybacked on the hard work of Misbah, Younis, Ajmal and Rehman.

We all know Test team was Misbah's baby while coaches just came and went.

 

[Amjid Javed]

Please no TTF coaches we have had before, waqar shouldnt be given any sort of coaching role PCB.

 

[Azrim_91]

Why on earth are people backing this guy regardless of which role? As mentioned, he's had 2 stints as head coach, been a bowling coach in other sides. He's useless as a coach, useless as pundit and was useless as a captain too. Bad captains equate to poor leaders = poor coaches tbh.

 

[Cricketrenew]

If Waqar comes back in some capacity after his past failures as coach, remember the spot fixing under his nose. This will show PCB is going round in circles still.

Great Player poor coach ok commentator.

 

[Naim]

Would not be a bad hire for Bowling coach. I wonder if he is just done with being Head Coach and wants to just focus on coaching one aspect now. It would be quite a step down to go from HC to BC especially for the same team.

Waqar is already working with/under dean Jones in Islamabad united setup.

 

[kamz]

As I have said many times before when Waqar was around during Woolmer days as bowling coach that was the time I saw him really develop the bowlers he had then. Asif, Rana Naved and even Umar Gul got back to his best and his pace and accuracy was up but since then he has not lived up to much standards at all.

what that suggests is that he functions well when he hasnt got a leadership role, so the head coach needs to be of a strong personality and respected by waqar

so woolmer inzi era he did well as inzi was his mate who he got along well with (peer since playing days) and respected him as a cricketer - Bob as a reputed coach.

I think if one wants Waqar, you need a level headed coach that manages waqar deliverables on the bowling coach assignment. Dean Jones might be a good fit, Misbah too

PS: his best performances were also when IK was in charge, or someone senior than him whom he respected

To me that is man management managerial skills, rather than anything to get the best out of Waqar

 

[Firebat]

Think he would be a perfect bowling coach, but please do not make him head coach again.

 

[mon858]

More and more looking like Islamabad united setup.. Deano, waqar, misbah. Might as well recall mohammed Sami and make him captain, lol.

 

[Abid Z]

Waqars final report needs rereading. He wrote and spoke very eloquently about what pcb and teams short comings were. He was pretty much ostracised by Najam sethi who avoided all contact with him. There was a lot of emphasis on fitness fielding and modern methods. He mentioned certain players and cliques in the team. Pretty much everything he mentioned was or is being implemented by pcb now.

I feel that there was previously very open hostility to him by afridi and we were carrying a lot of dead weight in the team. Waqar would be fantastic if as a bowling coach he can work with a real manager style head coach and a good batting/fielding coach alongside him. What we absolutely need is a good coaching team as opposed to a random set of coaches who sit there complaining about the pcb or their internet connections and pay cheques or how much they miss their family.

 

[Slog]

How dare you ?! Don't you know Mickey not only singlehandedly masterminded the downfall of Pakistan cricket, but is also responsible for 9/11, climate and the Rwandan genocide.

But Waqar is the Pep Guardiola of cricket as per his fans.

Resorting to hyperbole and idiotic statements won’t hide the failures of Mickey arthur. I’d suggest you accept the fact that he wasn’t able to leave on his own terms for 3 different national cricketing gigs and isn’t cut out for this.

 

[Markhor]

Resorting to hyperbole and idiotic statements won’t hide the failures of Mickey arthur. I’d suggest you accept the fact that he wasn’t able to leave on his own terms for 3 different national cricketing gigs and isn’t cut out for this.

And obviously Waqar is from the wonderful ODI and T20 team he left for his successor.

If he was this astute coach, why wasn't he picked up by any international teams after his second coaching stint went down in flames ? Or is life easier from the commentary box ?

 

[shaz619]

And obviously Waqar is from the wonderful ODI and T20 team he left for his successor.

If he was this astute coach, why wasn't he picked up by any international teams after his second coaching stint went down in flames ? Or is life easier from the commentary box ?

That is extremely harsh, Waqar did us good in the ultimate format which is Test Cricket; as soon as he left we turned into jobbers and lost our unbeaten record in the UAE. Mickey is so thick he couldn't bring in proper spinners in those conditions and our rise to no.1 and series levelling performance was largely thanks to the hard work of Misbah and Waqar. Yes he didn't do well in ODI's and T20, those formats have little meaning in this era and what had Waqar's successor actually achieved in ODI's, the WC is the pinnacle in that format and Mickey acheived the same result as Waqar.

Waqar the bowling coach ought to be incredibly valuable and if he is hired as coach I have no issue, the Test performances should improve at the very least and Pak will do much better in their adopted home.

Don't you dare make silly comments and jibes like from "commentary box" did he take us to no.1 and give fast bowlers without a brain his own brain from the box as well? Show some god damn respect to a living legend! He has bled for Pak and decently, else Usain Bolt would be a hater like you to

 

[Markhor]

Waqar did us good in the ultimate format which is Test Cricket;

You misspelt Misbah-ul-Haq.

as soon as he left we turned into jobbers and lost our unbeaten record in the UAE

As soon as Younis and Misbah left, and the "Asian Clive Lloyd" Sarfraz Ahmed took over, we lost our UAE record.

All we needed to do to maintain our UAE record was to score 27 more runs in those two tight Abu Dhabi chases vs SRL and NZL, but Captain Useless yet again failed to bat with responsibility. Yet Sarfraz remains in his post while others bite the bullet ?

Yes he didn't do well in ODI's and T20

To expand on that - Waqar left a team tottering in 9th in ODI rankings and struggling to qualify for the 2019 World Cup. We were atrocious in the 2015 World Cup, beating only one decent team in South Africa. Only twice under Waqar did we cross 300 in ODIs versus the other top 10 teams (14 times under Mickey). We also received BANGLAWASH for for first time in history.

Whereas under Mickey we won our first ICC 50 over trophy since 1992, had a better W/L ratio versus the top ten ODI sides (0.735 vs 0.347 under Waqar - a fact [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] keeps dodging), and finished 5th in the 2019 World Cup missing out on a SF place only on NRR. We beat three top ranked teams including champions England, South Africa and New Zealand.

In T20s, we were ranked 7th and crashed out of the group stages of 2016 WC under Waqar. There was zero planning - only a few months earlier Waqar Guardiola had debuted 39 year old Rifatullah Mohmand vs England ! He couldn't connect bat to ball !

Waqar the bowling coach ought to be incredibly valuable

Is that why our bowlers had the WORST bowling average in ODIs under Waqar amongst the top 10 sides ?

Show some god damn respect to a living legend!

Legendary players don't make legendary coaches.

 

[Slog]

[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] - Just because you repeat a lie a hundred times will not magically make it true. The simple fact is that our UAE slump had started when Misbah and Younis were there in Mickey Arthur’s first home series which was against West Indies. We lost a test and we won one by the skin of our teeth. And after that we got blanked 2-0 by a very weak NZ side away despite NZ being our perennial whipping boys in away series. A much weaker Pakistan side had beaten NZ away in 2010-11 actually but here we failed.

Mickey arthur was an unmitigated disaster in Tests and literally there is no argument against it. We started being mediocre in UAE because of insanely stupid tactic of not playing 2 specialist spinners which he kept on sticking to despite everyone apart from him shouting that take the logical decision. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

A sign of how desperately you have to clutch to straws when defending the failure Mickey Arthur is that you always have to resort to whataboutism and bring others into discussion and make up stuff rather than being able to defend the perennial failure Mickey Arthur on his own merit. Name calling or mockingly referring to someone by the name of a football manager just exposes the weak ground you stand on in this argument

 

[Markhor]

[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] - Just because you repeat a lie a hundred times will not magically make it true. The simple fact is that our UAE slump had started when Misbah and Younis were there in Mickey Arthur’s first home series which was against West Indies. We lost a test and we won one by the skin of our teeth. And after that we got blanked 2-0 by a very weak NZ side away despite NZ being our perennial whipping boys in away series. A much weaker Pakistan side had beaten NZ away in 2010-11 actually but here we failed.

Mickey arthur was an unmitigated disaster in Tests and literally there is no argument against it. We started being mediocre in UAE because of insanely stupid tactic of not playing 2 specialist spinners which he kept on sticking to despite everyone apart from him shouting that take the logical decision. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

A sign of how desperately you have to clutch to straws when defending the failure Mickey Arthur is that you always have to resort to whataboutism and bring others into discussion and make up stuff rather than being able to defend the perennial failure Mickey Arthur on his own merit. Name calling or mockingly referring to someone by the name of a football manager just exposes the weak ground you stand on in this argument

Where you getting this very weak NZ team from ? This is the same NZ team that features one of their greatest ever cricketers in Kane Williamson, one of the finest swing bowlers in the world in Trent Boult, a NZ ATG in Ross Taylor, Neil Wagner and others.

This is the NZ team that reached 2015 WC final and only lost 2019 final on technicality. They were far stronger in 2016 than 2011. And you expected us to roll them over with ZERO practice matches on green tops ?

You keep talking about the Test record and leave out the fact Mickey had two tours of England, a tour of Australia, New Zealand and South Africa all in a three year cycle. Waqar meanwhile didn't venture out of Asia even once in his second tenure when he pigggbacked off Misbah's work !

We played two spinners vs New Zealand and still lost because we have a captain that simply refuses to take responsibility with the bat. All we needed is 5 extra runs from Sarfraz in that 1st Test runchase but he bottled it once again.

Yet we've sacked virtually everybody but him. Now you want to pair failed captain with a twice failed coach ! This is not logical !

 

[Hasan123]

Where you getting this very weak NZ team from ? This is the same NZ team that features one of their greatest ever cricketers in Kane Williamson, one of the finest swing bowlers in the world in Trent Boult, a NZ ATG in Ross Taylor, Neil Wagner and others.

This is the NZ team that reached 2015 WC final and only lost 2019 final on technicality. They were far stronger in 2016 than 2011. And you expected us to roll them over with ZERO practice matches on green tops ?

You keep talking about the Test record and leave out the fact Mickey had two tours of England, a tour of Australia, New Zealand and South Africa all in a three year cycle. Waqar meanwhile didn't venture out of Asia even once in his second tenure when he pigggbacked off Misbah's work !

We played two spinners vs New Zealand and still lost because we have a captain that simply refuses to take responsibility with the bat. All we needed is 5 extra runs from Sarfraz in that 1st Test runchase but he bottled it once again.

Yet we've sacked virtually everybody but him. Now you want to pair failed captain with a twice failed coach ! This is not logical !

Lol he talks as if Waqar would have done better in the series vs South Africa and Australia away from home.

His hero was the coach in the 2010 series vs England wasn't he ? Mickey got 2 draws in England. The Guardiola of cricket could not even do that.

 

[shaz619]

You misspelt Misbah-ul-Haq.


As soon as Younis and Misbah left, and the "Asian Clive Lloyd" Sarfraz Ahmed took over, we lost our UAE record.

All we needed to do to maintain our UAE record was to score 27 more runs in those two tight Abu Dhabi chases vs SRL and NZL, but Captain Useless yet again failed to bat with responsibility. Yet Sarfraz remains in his post while others bite the bullet ?


To expand on that - Waqar left a team tottering in 9th in ODI rankings and struggling to qualify for the 2019 World Cup. We were atrocious in the 2015 World Cup, beating only one decent team in South Africa. Only twice under Waqar did we cross 300 in ODIs versus the other top 10 teams (14 times under Mickey). We also received BANGLAWASH for for first time in history.

Whereas under Mickey we won our first ICC 50 over trophy since 1992, had a better W/L ratio versus the top ten ODI sides (0.735 vs 0.347 under Waqar - a fact [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] keeps dodging), and finished 5th in the 2019 World Cup missing out on a SF place only on NRR. We beat three top ranked teams including champions England, South Africa and New Zealand.

In T20s, we were ranked 7th and crashed out of the group stages of 2016 WC under Waqar. There was zero planning - only a few months earlier Waqar Guardiola had debuted 39 year old Rifatullah Mohmand vs England ! He couldn't connect bat to ball !


Is that why our bowlers had the WORST bowling average in ODIs under Waqar amongst the top 10 sides ?


Legendary players don't make legendary coaches.

Waqar Younis was the coach, Misbah ul Haq was the captain; if you are implying that Misbah called the shots from genesis to revelations and Waqar deserves no credit, then I require further information and supporting evidence.

I agree about ODI's and T20's but am not bothered about those anymore, Mickey and Waqar did little; yes we won the CT but the WC is the big fish we all would like to eat.

Waqar Younis was a legendary Test coach, under his reign we remained unbeaten in the UAE and reached no.1

Sarfraz is to blame but Mickey and his idiotic strategy in those conditions were also pivotal, they didn't have Misbah or Younis but what stopped him from selecting proper spinners; haven't you read Mickey's book ? he has a highly flawed approach to cricket when it comes to making use of utility players and bits/pieces A/R's, on top of that he was exposed when it came to tactics required in those conditions, and here's the thing; he never learned from his experience and am afraid nothing less then a semi-final spot was acceptable in the WC

 

[shaz619]

Pakistan are going to get smashed regardless away, at least Waqar kept Pakistan's dignity intact by remaining unbeaten in the UAE; on top of that he put Pakistan in a position to reach no.1, unfortunately some fans are so delusional they think that Mickey was a farisha sent form the heavens who turned our fortunes around in such a short space that enabled us to win the mace such was his influence in helping Pak draw level in England, in his own words he thanked Waqar for his hard work which led to us winning the mace, but people want to speak for farishta himself stop worshipping him because he is White, Brits have a damn inferior complex

 

[shaz619]

I always criticise Waqar [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] knows how many times we have feuded, but I took him for granted when I look at all the horrific damage which Mickey has done to the Pakistani Test team, it will take at least 5-10 years for us to recover from this, pathetic. And he has the audacity to try and emotionally blackmail everyone on the way out, disgraceful. Don't get deceived by him just because he is White.

 

[Abdullah719]

Waqar Younis was the coach, Misbah ul Haq was the captain; if you are implying that Misbah called the shots from genesis to revelations and Waqar deserves no credit, then I require further information and supporting evidence.

I agree about ODI's and T20's but am not bothered about those anymore, Mickey and Waqar did little; yes we won the CT but the WC is the big fish we all would like to eat.

Waqar Younis was a legendary Test coach, under his reign we remained unbeaten in the UAE and reached no.1

Sarfraz is to blame but Mickey and his idiotic strategy in those conditions were also pivotal, they didn't have Misbah or Younis but what stopped him from selecting proper spinners; haven't you read Mickey's book ? he has a highly flawed approach to cricket when it comes to making use of utility players and bits/pieces A/R's, on top of that he was exposed when it came to tactics required in those conditions, and here's the thing; he never learned from his experience and am afraid nothing less then a semi-final spot was acceptable in the WC

Winning UAE Tests was entirely down to the role played by Misbah and Younis and the performances of the spinners. I really feel that Misbah was the main catalyst behind this, not Waqar who wanted to play four pacers on a turning track in the match against India at Kolkata. Misbah's proficiency with spinners in supportive conditions is well documented.

The Mickey-Sarfaraz combo was really poor in UAE Tests. Mickey for not recognising what the conditions required (Sarfaraz for that, too) and Sarfaraz also for his poor performances on the field.

 

[Savak]

The D"ness of Waqar has to be kept in check regardless of the role he gets

 

[shaz619]

Winning UAE Tests was entirely down to the role played by Misbah and Younis and the performances of the spinners. I really feel that Misbah was the main catalyst behind this, not Waqar who wanted to play four pacers on a turning track in the match against India at Kolkata. Misbah's proficiency with spinners in supportive conditions is well documented.

The Mickey-Sarfaraz combo was really poor in UAE Tests. Mickey for not recognising what the conditions required (Sarfaraz for that, too) and Sarfaraz also for his poor performances on the field.

That is your subjective opinion, Waqar was the coach; to remotely suggest he had no input or influence is very ignorant in my view. Misbah and Younis for sure did brilliantly on the pitch for Pakistan; if for example we assume Waqar did nothing at all; he actually still contributed significantly by allowing Misbah and Younis to do their thing, that is also a great quality to have as a coach by utilising your resources, delegating effectively and allowing everyone to shine without enforcing your ideas completely. For this very reason many are getting excited by the dynamic between Jones and Misbah potentially, but he also had a key relationship with Waqar in the same way which was very important in Pakistan doing as well as they did in Tests.

 

[shaz619]

The D"ness of Waqar has to be kept in check regardless of the role he gets

Naturally he is an Alpha Male, everyone is bound to feel inferior and criticise him out of their own insecurities but thankfully Misbah had a high level of education and was able to form a key relationship which resulted in us becoming no.1 in Tests, no doubt about it Waqar/Misbah achieved great wonders for us as a Team, I can only dream of another duo winning the mace once again

 

[Abdullah719]

That is your subjective opinion, Waqar was the coach; to remotely suggest he had no input or influence is very ignorant in my view. Misbah and Younis for sure did brilliantly on the pitch for Pakistan; if for example we assume Waqar did nothing at all; he actually still contributed significantly by allowing Misbah and Younis to do their thing, that is also a great quality to have as a coach by utilising your resources, delegating effectively and allowing everyone to shine without enforcing your ideas completely. For this very reason many are getting excited by the dynamic between Jones and Misbah potentially, but he also had a key relationship with Waqar in the same way which was very important in Pakistan doing as well as they did in Tests.

I didn't say he had no influence at all, I said Misbah was the one with the biggest input in that period. Similar to how our 2012 win over England was mainly due to Misbah and the spinners, rather than any brilliance on the part of Mohsin Khan. Very little changed from that 2012-16 period; coaches came and went but the results were similar.

 

[shaz619]

I didn't say he had no influence at all, I said Misbah was the one with the biggest input in that period. Similar to how our 2012 win over England was mainly due to Misbah and the spinners, rather than any brilliance on the part of Mohsin Khan. Very little changed from that 2012-16 period; coaches came and went but the results were similar.

I haven't overlooked Misbah's contribution one bit, he is right up there with Imran Khan when it comes to Pakistan's best captains ever.

However what I find most amusing is this logic:

Waqar was pivotal in our failures when it comes to ODI's

Waqar had little to do with our rise in Tests

Isn't this logic amusing ? also considering Misbah was a part of both forms but we have to blame Waqar for Pak doing poor but give Misbah credit when we did well.

What would make more sense is if we looked at this from a balanced perspective, be it failure or victory both Waqar and Misbah were influential and should be judged accordingly.

 

[Abdullah719]

I haven't overlooked Misbah's contribution one bit, he is right up there with Imran Khan when it comes to Pakistan's best captains ever.

However what I find most amusing is this logic:

Waqar was pivotal in our failures when it comes to ODI's

Waqar had little to do with our rise in Tests

Isn't this logic amusing ? also considering Misbah was a part of both forms but we have to blame Waqar for Pak doing poor but give Misbah credit when we did well.

What would make more sense is if we looked at this from a balanced perspective, be it failure or victory both Waqar and Misbah were influential and should be judged accordingly.

The point is that Misbah had a settled method in UAE which was working, starting 2012. The plan worked best when Ajmal and Rehman were at the peak of their powers. After Rehman departed, Pakistan started drawing/losing more games, but were still managing to remain unbeaten. The team was functioning fine and didn't need any tweaking. They were completely in their comfort zone. Additionally, under Waqar we only played Tests in Asia.

In ODIs, we were struggling as a unit and trying to figure out a way to compete. That was true before Waqar's tenure, and also during his tenure, and when he left, we had reached the bottom after Misbah's retirement. In a situation where a team is struggling, it's up to all of the stakeholders to try and make a difference, but nothing happened. Possibly the only memorable part of that tenure in ODIs was Pakistan's pace bowling in the 2015 World Cup and Waqar can probably take some credit for that, but we failed in all other aspects.

I quite like Waqar's character and I think he would do well in an administrative role as he realised a lot of the problems of the system and his recommendations were largely for the betterment of Pakistan cricket. But I don't think he is Head Coach material.

 

[Slog]

The point is that Misbah had a settled method in UAE which was working, starting 2012. The plan worked best when Ajmal and Rehman were at the peak of their powers. After Rehman departed, Pakistan started drawing/losing more games, but were still managing to remain unbeaten. The team was functioning fine and didn't need any tweaking. They were completely in their comfort zone. Additionally, under Waqar we only played Tests in Asia.

In ODIs, we were struggling as a unit and trying to figure out a way to compete. That was true before Waqar's tenure, and also during his tenure, and when he left, we had reached the bottom after Misbah's retirement. In a situation where a team is struggling, it's up to all of the stakeholders to try and make a difference, but nothing happened. Possibly the only memorable part of that tenure in ODIs was Pakistan's pace bowling in the 2015 World Cup and Waqar can probably take some credit for that, but we failed in all other aspects.

I quite like Waqar's character and I think he would do well in an administrative role as he realised a lot of the problems of the system and his recommendations were largely for the betterment of Pakistan cricket. But I don't think he is Head Coach material.

Misbah has a settled method in UAE which worked till he was there but somehow the following happened:

1. As soon as Waqar left in 2016, we barely won the next UAE series by the skin of our teeth. Heck we lost one and one of the matches we were under the cosh. This is when Misbah and Younis were still there and the only change was Mickey Arthur and his insanely stupid UAE tactics.

2. It’s very curious how people forget that in the intervening period we had Dav Whatmorw as coach as well. But we still had Misbah. Yet we did not win UAE series in that period and drew a series against Sri Lanka there. Heck even the test win in that series came courtesy of last day heroics so was not even a comfortable drawn series. Under Dav (with Misbah still being there) we also lost a test series to Zimbabwe btw.

So please do not peddle this myth that coach had no impact and it was all Misbah. With the same players and captain Waqar inflicted defeats to England and Australia among others whereas Whatmore and Arthur struggled to beat weak Sri Lanka and West Indies.
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] [MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION]

 

[Titan24]

Its pretty surprising the nobody discusses the LOI team which Mickey only was able to make with the influx of some new players due to PSL. Just like Mickey previous coaches werent too interested in finding talent through domestic cricket however, Mickey got the shortcut with the start of PSL where he just looked and picked players on those performances.

Compare the teams in LOIs in 2015 vs 2019. Did Mickey handpicked any of these players? Not at all, he got a cheat sheet with PSL from where he got few answers.

As I asked in another thread from Mickey’s supporters, tell me the name of one guy Mickey handpicked from domestics. Yet to receive an answer because there is none.

He had to transform the test team post Misbah and Younus but he failed miserably because T20 leagues (Only thing Mickey watched) are rarely gonna give fully prepared test cricketers. Mickey didnt know which players to select for a smooth formation. He didnt even know any other spinner alongside Yasir Shah and went with 3 man pace attack on spinning UAE surfaces.

 

[Slim]

Waqar should nowhere be near the Pakistani cricket set up. He and his reign was cancerous.