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Was removing Mickey Arthur the wrong decision?

The Captain (Sarfaraz) kept hiding behind tailenders during Mickey's time as coach & he never bothered calling him out on that. Instead always endorsed Sarf's cowardice & mediocrity. That alone is enough of an evidence to prove he was a pathetic leader, who always felt content with mediocre results. Removing him was the right decision. Replacing him with an even worse dud, wasn't.

P.s: Mickey went beyond the call of duty to destroy whatever was left of Pakistan Cricket. Misbah is doing the same, albeit with more zeal & passion. Massive respect for both.
 
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But Mickey is a professional coach with lots of "experience"
 
I love watching Mickey's reactions and faces when the team he is coaching doesn't do well :rp
 
I always liked Arthur, he talked a good game and I always found myself agreeing with most of what he said. I know there was a lot of critics on here, but seems there's always critics of the coaches doesn't matter who is in the hotseat. I suppose it comes with the territory when the team is not performing, but the coaches can only do so much with the players available.

I would pick Arthur any day over Misbah, that is all I would say.
 
Arthur is a good coach at improving players but since leaving South Africa job when it comes to building a team, man management, and team selection he has been all over the place. He is a better coach than Misbah of course but he had to go. Found hilarious how you had some Pakistan fans were doing banghra on day 1 of that 1st test against South Africa that Sri Lanka played and giving Arthur all the credit for that. But by the end of the series they were blaming everyone else but him.
 
Hasan123 said:
Arthur is a good coach at improving players but since leaving South Africa job when it comes to building a team, man management, and team selection he has been all over the place.
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Genuine question here, which players has he actually improved since he left the South Africa job?

He didn't introduce any players of note at Western Australia, nor during his Australia stint (which is known solely for homeworkgate and how he was unceremoniously sacked on the eve of the Ashes), and none really at Pakistan save for Babar Azam, who was always destined to succeed.
 
cricketjoshila said:
Pakistan need a proper elite coach. Not Mickey or Misbah.
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They can’t afford one and besides coaching Pakistan is hardly a fancy option. You would enjoy yourself more and the benefits coaching a county in England
 
Last Monetarist said:
Genuine question here, which players has he actually improved since he left the South Africa job?

He didn't introduce any players of note at Western Australia, nor during his Australia stint (which is known solely for homeworkgate and how he was unceremoniously sacked on the eve of the Ashes), and none really at Pakistan save for Babar Azam, who was always destined to succeed.
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Yes, I don’t know why this myth keeps floating around. He is just a very average coach who lucked out with a golden generation of South African cricketers.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
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At least Mickey is prepared to show that he isn't happy with what he is seeing and that is a sign of accountability. Nobody wants to be a batsman walking back to the pavilion when your coach is looking like this.

Misbah would be reactionless while preparing his list of excuses of why Pakistan cricket would fall apart without him.
 
HappyWarsFan said:
[MENTION=53290]Markhor[/MENTION] where are you now?
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Don't see how any coach can be judged on one bad innings and without the captain. They suffered several injuries in SAF too. Anyway let's see how the series pans out, he needs to have stern words with the batsmen.

Last Monetarist said:
Genuine question here, which players has he actually improved since he left the South Africa job?

He didn't introduce any players of note at Western Australia, nor during his Australia stint (which is known solely for homeworkgate and how he was unceremoniously sacked on the eve of the Ashes), and none really at Pakistan save for Babar Azam, who was always destined to succeed.
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David Warner and Mitchell Starc made their Test debuts under Mickey.

Babar Azam said he wouldn't be the player he is now without Mickey. When Babar was struggling around 2017/18, he would've been dropped under a Pakistani coach but Mickey persisted with him. Shaheen Shah developed into a world-class white ball bowler under his watch, while other youngsters like Hasan Ali and Shadab Khan were also backed.

Meanwhile who has Misbah improved ?
 
hitthestump said:
At least Mickey is prepared to show that he isn't happy with what he is seeing and that is a sign of accountability. Nobody wants to be a batsman walking back to the pavilion when your coach is looking like this.

Misbah would be reactionless while preparing his list of excuses of why Pakistan cricket would fall apart without him.
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Lmao, is this where it's come to? Mickey fans are using his (unprofessional) reactions to defend him? He is horrible coach who is utterly clueless. Honestly I'd rather have Misbah as a test coach, at least I know he will do better and win Tests at home. Not saying that Misbah is any good though. Mickey however was just awful and showing with Sri Lanka.
 
Last Monetarist said:
Genuine question here, which players has he actually improved since he left the South Africa job?

He didn't introduce any players of note at Western Australia, nor during his Australia stint (which is known solely for homeworkgate and how he was unceremoniously sacked on the eve of the Ashes), and none really at Pakistan save for Babar Azam, who was always destined to succeed.
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I felt as though Babar and Imam improved under him.
 
shaz619 said:
They can’t afford one and besides coaching Pakistan is hardly a fancy option. You would enjoy yourself more and the benefits coaching a county in England
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I believe for cricketing boards it shouldnt only be about getting the coach with proven past international coaching credentials. When India hired Gary Kirsten he was almost nobody in the international coaching world. Its about understanding your own cricketing culture and trying to find the right man who has a plan to implement progressive ideologies to the cricketing culture of the team he is going to coach.

Gary Kirsten wanted to prove himself in the coaching world and BCCI wanted someone who had his kind of ideas to take cricket forward; a perfect match. So if a cricketing board does proper analysis and homework there are usually many more decent options available than the ones on the surface.
 
Titan24 said:
I believe for cricketing boards it shouldnt only be about getting the coach with proven past international coaching credentials. When India hired Gary Kirsten he was almost nobody in the international coaching world. Its about understanding your own cricketing culture and trying to find the right man who has a plan to implement progressive ideologies to the cricketing culture of the team he is going to coach.

Gary Kirsten wanted to prove himself in the coaching world and BCCI wanted someone who had his kind of ideas to take cricket forward; a perfect match. So if a cricketing board does proper analysis and homework there are usually many more decent options available than the ones on the surface.
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Well said.
 
Markhor said:
David Warner and Mitchell Starc made their Test debuts under Mickey.

Babar Azam said he wouldn't be the player he is now without Mickey. When Babar was struggling around 2017/18, he would've been dropped under a Pakistani coach but Mickey persisted with him. Shaheen Shah developed into a world-class white ball bowler under his watch, while other youngsters like Hasan Ali and Shadab Khan were also backed.

Meanwhile who has Misbah improved ?
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Do you really want to credit the selections of Warner and Starc to Arthur rather than John Inverarity, given that he had been in the seat for 1 week before that series against New Zealand in 2011? Neither had established themselves while Arthur was at the helm. I can credit Misbah for the selections of Haider Ali and Naseem Shah by the same token.

While one can credit him for giving initial chances to Hasan Ali and Shadab Khan, both had regressed alarmingly on his watch. Shaheen is far off being a world class bowler, but sure I'd give you that.

At the end of the day, the fact that the PCB chose Misbah as his replacement is neither here nor there. Two wrong decisions shouldn't cancel each other out.
 
Can't real blame.mickey if the upcoming cricketers for sri lanka are minnow level ability atm .

Their batting stocks are nothing special and to be all out for around 130 on day 1 at home against England is a reflection of their decline.

A chuchri like Dom bess getting a fiver is an absolute joke
 
Well his tenure ended. So i wouldn't say he was removed. He was just let go off. A coach's life with a team is limited. Maximum is 5. After 5 years, a new management needs to come in with fresh ideas, methods, strategies and ideology to prevent the team and the dressing room from stagnating. Mickey spent 3 years as Pak coach. His results were pretty poor in 3 years apart from t20is. He was pretty bad in UAE especially for Tests. We did just as poor in SA as we did in 2013 albeit against a poorer team.

What I would like to attribute with Mickey is that, under him, our ODI team had finally started to "compete" in the batting oriented places in England and SA. These two places coincided with his last 6 months of being in charge. Previously in England 2016, Aus 2017, NZ 2018, we pretty much failed to even compete. Apart from the 5th ODI against Eng 2016, first 2 ODIs Aus, we didn't even come close to getting a victory in sight. We started to do a little better by the end of WC19, when our team had finally started putting on 300+ scores constantly. That for me is the biggest contribution of Mickey to Pak cricket.

On the flipside, he never understood playing in UAE,SL and Bangladesh and even WI, places where attritional cricket still rules especially in Tests. We gave away many tests in UAE under him largely due to impatience, poor team selection and tactics. In 2017, he picked 3 pacers and one spinner in the team where SL picked 3 spinners and 1 seamer and they duly won the series 2-0. We gave away both games and the first one(pretty stupidly). He wasn't helped by a weak captain who had no idea how to lead in Tests. Sarfraz was pretty impatient when it came to Tests, which was very apparent in the above mentioned places. If it wasn't for Misbah and Younis, we might have lost the WI series of 2016 and 2017 as well.

The good side of Mickey was that he had the ability to groom the youngsters well. He was also not scared to challenge the seniors and help them go out of their shell. Mohammad Hafeez finally let go off his defensive mindset and learned to go after the opposition in LOIs. Fakhar, Babar, Hassan, Rumman, Shadab, Imam and to an extent Shaheen enjoyed success under him. Although Babar may be the only one who actually took 2 steps upwards. Fakhar and Shadab's performances under him are pretty good as compared to what they are now. Hassan hasn't yet played under Misbah.

Recently, only Mike Hesson and Darren Lehmann have enjoyed long tenures as head coaches 5 years for both. Both left the job after saying there was a need for fresh ideas in the dressing room.
 
mazkhan said:
Can't real blame.mickey if the upcoming cricketers for sri lanka are minnow level ability atm .

Their batting stocks are nothing special and to be all out for around 130 on day 1 at home against England is a reflection of their decline.

A chuchri like Dom bess getting a fiver is an absolute joke
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Dom Bess has steadily improved from where he was around his debut in 2018. He looks like a very good spinner with good control now. Somerset has been producing very good spinners of late.
 
Mickey's reactions are the best :)

This was after Joe root was given not out after edging the ball into the ground before the ball bounced back up onto his glove and to the fielder.

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/spau4f" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
 
The Viper said:
Mickey's reactions are the best :)

This was after Joe root was given not out after edging the ball into the ground before the ball bounced back up onto his glove and to the fielder.

<div style="width: 100%; height: 0px; position: relative; padding-bottom: 56.250%;"><iframe src="https://streamable.com/e/spau4f" frameborder="0" width="100%" height="100%" allowfullscreen style="width: 100%; height: 100%; position: absolute;"></iframe></div>
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This sort of behavior in the long run is detrimental to a coach. I can see why most players lose faith, confidence and trust at Mickey when he loses his cool in tough situations. He was kicked out by CA for good reasons and most players who played confirmed it was the worst team management, dressing room environment they encountered. Even plenty of Pakistani players have had issues with Mickey and he has been known to throw players under the bus in press conferences and interviews. The PCB and Karachi Kings did not just choose not to extend his contract for a reason, i am sure feedback from the players was taken into account because lets not forget there were tv reports that Mickey Arthur got into huge fights with the players on the South African tour and in the middle of the 2019 ODI WC due to which the Chief Selector Inzamam had to be flown to England to play peacemaker between the head coach and the players.
 
Mickey was the perfect qualified coach for Pakistan in bringing best out of players. Probably a balanced coach being firm when required as well as friendly making players work hard. His staff and use of technology all riced boxes.

Now we have a Pakistan bowling legend and also recent retired bats a campaign. But do either have coaching qualifications, merit or proven experience if any??? Bad choice.
 
Well there maybe that too, although nothing wrong showing emotion and passion. If not Mickey then some other qualified experienced coach.
One thing for sure, the impression and from previous history, coaches probably get frustrated with some Pakistan players who think they are stars, don’t have to train work hard or listen. I am sure it must be like banging your head onto a brick wall with some of these lot.
 
No wonder he is failing in most jobs. If he is loosing his cool over small stuff, imagine how he reacts over something major. The more I think about it, the decision to get rid of Mickey Arthur was the right one. The team was going nowhere under him, not convinced by his man management when he loses his cool like this, and his statements in the media were bizarre at times and clearly for the gallery.

He may improve some Sri Lankan players, but don’t see them progressing much as a team under him.
 
Savak said:
This sort of behavior in the long run is detrimental to a coach. I can see why most players lose faith, confidence and trust at Mickey when he loses his cool in tough situations. He was kicked out by CA for good reasons and most players who played confirmed it was the worst team management, dressing room environment they encountered. Even plenty of Pakistani players have had issues with Mickey and he has been known to throw players under the bus in press conferences and interviews. The PCB and Karachi Kings did not just choose not to extend his contract for a reason, i am sure feedback from the players was taken into account because lets not forget there were tv reports that Mickey Arthur got into huge fights with the players on the South African tour and in the middle of the 2019 ODI WC due to which the Chief Selector Inzamam had to be flown to England to play peacemaker between the head coach and the players.
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Are you able to find a source for this claim?
 
Mickey fans are unbelievable. He destroys Test teams. Look at Pakistan and now SL tests team.
 
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Mickey had strengths and weaknesses.

His biggest weakness is his inability to keep his cool when things fall apart.
 
I think Pakistan's decline in the second half of CMA's administration had less to with Mickey Arthur and more to do with the departure of Steve Rixon. The team was dangerous when their fielding was good and they were rapidly improving from a fielding and fitness perspective.
Of course, once PCB made the dumb decision of not paying the man the wages he was owed for services already rendered, he left and our fielding fell off a cliff. We are still regretting that decision today with the poor fielding we've seen. The team was batting well enough towards the end of CMA's term-but when we couldn't keep other sides to chaseable targets or dropped so many catches we let even high targets get destroyed-that made a huge impact.
 
Arthur and Pakistan were the perfect match. Both are poster boys of mediocrity and cricketing ignorance.
 
zn426 said:
I think Pakistan's decline in the second half of CMA's administration had less to with Mickey Arthur and more to do with the departure of Steve Rixon. The team was dangerous when their fielding was good and they were rapidly improving from a fielding and fitness perspective.
Of course, once PCB made the dumb decision of not paying the man the wages he was owed for services already rendered, he left and our fielding fell off a cliff. We are still regretting that decision today with the poor fielding we've seen. The team was batting well enough towards the end of CMA's term-but when we couldn't keep other sides to chaseable targets or dropped so many catches we let even high targets get destroyed-that made a huge impact.
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So what you are saying is that Professional cricketers forgot how to field when Rixon left.
 
Removing Arthur wasn't a wrong decision but replacing him with Misbah was probably not the best decision.
 
Mickey Arthur vs Misbah ul Haq reminds me off the Death by Jojo joke
 
Sri Lanka are an even worse Test side than Pakistan.

That is how bad they are.
 
Saj said:
Sri Lanka are an even worse Test side than Pakistan.

That is how bad they are.
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Don't agree, they are not world class but they are not as bad as their current results either. A bad side can perform horribly below their weight with a horrible coaching staff and can punch above their weight with a good competent coaching staff which knows how to get the most out of their limited resources
 
Sri Lanka had been progressing slowly under Chandika Hathurusingha, especially after that remarkable win in SA, but the SLC are even more incompetent than the PCB.
 
Savak said:
Don't agree, they are not world class but they are not as bad as their current results either. A bad side can perform horribly below their weight with a horrible coaching staff and can punch above their weight with a good competent coaching staff which knows how to get the most out of their limited resources
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Last 9 Tests:

Lost 6
Won 1 (versus Zimbabwe)
Drawn 2
 
Saj said:
Last 9 Tests:

Lost 6
Won 1 (versus Zimbabwe)
Drawn 2
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They beat South Africa in South Africa while Pakistan got whitewashed by the same South African team. It shows the side has potential if the players play as a unit and they can punch above their weight. Sadly Mickey Arthur is just a curse for any side he goes too.
 
Sacking him was the right thing to do. If Mickey was here we'd still be losing home tests to SL.
 
Savak said:
They beat South Africa in South Africa while Pakistan got whitewashed by the same South African team. It shows the side has potential if the players play as a unit and they can punch above their weight. Sadly Mickey Arthur is just a curse for any side he goes too.
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Did you see Sri Lankas batting vs England? It is so obvious Mickey is messing around with them. They were suddenly playing very attacking, ugly shots recklessly and losing wickets like crazy. The "aggressive" mickey arthur approach. In addition he's picking rellu kattas for the SL team. It's incredible how he destroys Test teams.
 
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