Was Shaun Pollock an ATG bowler?

[Ab Fan]

One of the most underrated players on PP, his numbers are up with the finest bowlers in the world but still doesn't get rated much. Here is his stats: An avg of 23.12 with 421 wickets in tests and an avg of 24.5 with 390+ wickets in odis. Where does he stand among other great bowlers in the world and why is less rated? His numbers have been impressive in both odis and tests.

 

[Ab Fan]

Shaun Pollock case has been so unique. It's certainly worth a discussion as to where does he stand among other ATG bowlers?

 

[Mamoon]

ATG ODI bowler.

Pollock had a major weakness though - he never had the stomach to turn up against the best team of his era.

 

[Ab Fan]

ATG ODI bowler.

Pollock had a major weakness though - he never had the stomach to turn up against the best team of his era.

Tests?

 

[Mamoon]

Tests?

Great all-rounder, but I think that his bowling stats flatter him in Tests.

He was very good but not ATG level.

 

[#GreenRoars]

I would consider him ODI ATG bowler, in Test he was SA ATG AR.

 

[jeetu]

He was overshadowed by better bowler like Donald and Steyn in the team. His AR status in the team was overshadowed by Kallis.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

An extremely underrated bowler to be honest, those who've seen him play know exactly how threatening he could become especially in the ODIs.

Had one of the best seam position while bowling, I've ever seen in cricket.

 

[Diffusion]

No. Very good bowler though, similar class to Anderson. Though he's at the top of that class, while Anderson would be a lower middle.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Pollock's worst average is against Aus which is 34.

Apart from that, its sub 30 against all teams.

Career average of 23.

I don't understand this "failed against best team" angle.

Warne and Murali sucked super duper bad against the best team of spin yet they are ATGs and GOATs of spin.

I can understand Pollock not being as impactful in tests his stats suggest but the fact that the world doesn't rate him as an ATG bowler is SUPREME INJUSTICE.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...bowling_average;template=results;type=bowling

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Dravid flopped against SL and SA. ATG.
Kallis flopped against SL and Eng. ATG.
Sanga flopped against a few. ATG.
Ponting flopped against India. ATG.

Pollock flopped against the 2nd greatest team ever. Not an ATG.

I don't understand it.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I am not referring to posters here but talking about the way the world rates him.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Another fact....Pollock averages 23 or BELOW against every team (home and away included) barring Aus against whom he averaged 36.

Now BEAT THAT.

 

[Adijazz1706]

ATG Bowling all-rounder imo.

 

[Mamoon]

One can ignore stats when you are a typical soft South African cricketer.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

421 test wickets at 23 average.

Mind boggling numbers.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

One can ignore stats when you are a typical soft South African cricketer.

who are the other typical soft South African cricketers?

 

[Robert]

I think he is ATG, but was overshadowed by most charismatic players.

 

[Slog]

Pollock's worst average is against Aus which is 34.

Apart from that, its sub 30 against all teams.

Career average of 23.

I don't understand this "failed against best team" angle.

Warne and Murali sucked super duper bad against the best team of spin yet they are ATGs and GOATs of spin.

I can understand Pollock not being as impactful in tests his stats suggest but the fact that the world doesn't rate him as an ATG bowler is SUPREME INJUSTICE.

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...bowling_average;template=results;type=bowling

yeah its not like 34 is a terrible average either

its nothing great but its not as bad to the extent that he is a liability or something like that.

Pollock toured Australia thrice.

After first 2 tours he averaged 24.6 It was only in the disastrous last tour in his 2nd last year in cricket that he really failed which pushed his average to 34

 

[adarsh_bang]

The problem with Shaun Pollock was he never looked like taking the game away. Don't think he was feared, ever.
Lack of that fear factor is bad for a frontline fast bowler.
He was, well, for lack of a better word 'functional', he was always a good mid segment car, but never a race car if you know what i mean.
Never considered a match winner. Flintoff even got more attention than him due to one good season or two.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

yeah its not like 34 is a terrible average either

its nothing great but its not as bad to the extent that he is a liability or something like that.

Pollock toured Australia thrice.

After first 2 tours he averaged 24.6 It was only in the disastrous last tour in his 2nd last year in cricket that he really failed which pushed his average to 34

My God....

The INJUSTICE keeps rising.

This guy statistically is PERFECT.

Should be atleast regarded as ATG. I watched a bit of Pollock during my young days and he did scare me (probably cos I saw Indian batsmen poking a lot).

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

If he were a desi bowler and treated like this, fans would have thrown a HUGE tantrum using terms like "jealousy", "burn", "deluded" and taken the attack to the opposition.

Since he is a Saffer, no one bothers. lol.

 

[Ab Fan]

SA players do manage to have great stats but it's a case with them that on big occasions the impact is lesser. With Pollock, I can't think of anything wrong. He was fantastic in both formats, has longevity( close to 400 wickets in tests/ odis both) and still has a brilliant bowling avg( below 25).He has performed in all countries except Aus where he wasn't downright poor.

 

[hur rizvi]

Yes he was a Great Cricketer. 2nd Best AR after Kallis post 1990s

 

[hur rizvi]

The problem with Shaun Pollock was he never looked like taking the game away. Don't think he was feared, ever.
Lack of that fear factor is bad for a frontline fast bowler.
He was, well, for lack of a better word 'functional', he was always a good mid segment car, but never a race car if you know what i mean.
Never considered a match winner. Flintoff even got more attention than him due to one good season or two.

He was a better Cricketer than Kapil Dev. 2nd Best Cricketer India, ever Produced

Its a shame People disregard his performances in the name of persona

 

[Itachi]

My God....

The INJUSTICE keeps rising.

This guy statistically is PERFECT.

Should be atleast regarded as ATG. I watched a bit of Pollock during my young days and he did scare me (probably cos I saw Indian batsmen poking a lot).

There's lies the problem. He is statistically perfect. Like amla.

 

[hur rizvi]

Great all-rounder, but I think that his bowling stats flatter him in Tests.

He was very good but not ATG level.

He is a better AR than Kapil and Botham both of them are regarded as ATGs

He surely is an ATG AR in tests

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

There's lies the problem. He is statistically perfect. Like amla.

Every statistically perfect guy isn't Amla.

Plus this is tests. Amla is regarded as a great test bat.

Pollock's test stats are even more impeccable than his...more impeccable ATG bowlers some of whom would have had bad averages in atleast 1 or 2 countries with lesser sample set.

 

[blue_champion]

He is a better AR than Kapil and Botham both of them are regarded as ATGs

He surely is an ATG AR in tests

He has 2 Test 100's against Srilanka and Westindies of 2000's
Kapil Dev has 8 test 100's.....1 Against South Africa in South Africa,3 Against WI of the 70's and early 80's,2 Against England and 1 against Australia.

Pollock has 421 wickets bowling on bowler friendly surfaces while Kapil has 434.

Apples to Apples as a bowler,You can make a case for Pollock but as an A/R no way

 

[Ab Fan]

Kapil and Botham are both regarded as better All Rounders than Pollock. Both were better than what their bowling avg is and had huge impact with ball unlike Pollock. Both were better batsmen than Pollock quite clearly. As an AR, Pollock is behind Sobers, the four quartet and Kallis but still can be called as an ATG all rounder.

 

[blue_champion]

Kapil and Botham are both regarded as better All Rounders than Pollock. Both were better than what their bowling avg is and had huge impact with ball unlike Pollock. Both were better batsmen than Pollock quite clearly. As an AR, Pollock is behind Sobers, the four quartet and Kallis but still can be called as an ATG all rounder.

Kapil,Botham and Imran could get into their sides purely as batsmen or bowlers.......Sir Richard Hadlee and Shaun Pollock cannot make it purely as batsmen...their batting is a bonus to their wonderful skills as bowlers.....similarly South Africa has a lot of better bowlers than Kallis but his bowling skill complements his batting talent,Same can be said for Sobers despite what the stats say.

Yeah compare Pollock the bowler to these players so he has a chance but as a pure allrounder he is maybe in the Mitchell Johnson,Wasim Akram category

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Pollock was easily a greater bowler than both Kapil and Botham if you compare whole careers.

Dude was solid almost everywhere in the world including Asia.

As an AR...you can debate though its not wrong to rate Pollock ahead too (ATG bowler and a decent bat). On careful consideration, I do think Botham and Kapil were better ARs than him cos they were dangerous with the ball and bat.

A lot of opinions are shaped by English and Aus media and sadly Pollock wasn't hyped as much.

Since I didn't watch his career from start to finish (watched it from middle I think)...I can understand if he is a bowler whose stats seem greater than his actual ability but you can still be excellent and have your stats overrate you a bit.

Pollock has one of the most balanced records for a pacer ever.

Plus longevity.

400 wickets at 23 average (home average of 21 and away average of 25 and Asia average of 23). What more do you need.

If I dig deep and do a fair analysis, he would seriously look better than most ATG bowlers statistically atleast. Agreed stats are not everything but you have to be very very very good to maintain great stats for a great period of time.

If he were a desi, we would have seen an insane hype machine which would have changed a lot of opinions.

He is a rockstar through and through.

I wish he gets his due credit.

 

[thelandofthebravepeople]

All time great crickter

 

[Ab Fan]

Kapil,Botham and Imran could get into their sides purely as batsmen or bowlers.......Sir Richard Hadlee and Shaun Pollock cannot make it purely as batsmen...their batting is a bonus to their wonderful skills as bowlers.....similarly South Africa has a lot of better bowlers than Kallis but his bowling skill complements his batting talent,Same can be said for Sobers despite what the stats say.

Yeah compare Pollock the bowler to these players so he has a chance but as a pure allrounder he is maybe in the Mitchell Johnson,Wasim Akram category

Pollock is definitely better batsmen than Johnson/Akram.He avgs 30+ with the bat and was more along the lines of Vettori.

 

[hur rizvi]

He has 2 Test 100's against Srilanka and Westindies of 2000's
Kapil Dev has 8 test 100's.....1 Against South Africa in South Africa,3 Against WI of the 70's and early 80's,2 Against England and 1 against Australia.

Pollock has 421 wickets bowling on bowler friendly surfaces while Kapil has 434.

Apples to Apples as a bowler,You can make a case for Pollock but as an A/R no way

Kapil has slight edge as a batsman, but Pollock is leagues ahead as a bowler. This bowler friendly logic never works. Pollock performed quite well in Pakistan, India and SL.

Kapil the Batsman > Pollock
Pollock the bowler >> Kapil

Same is the case with Botham

Overall Pollock > Kapil and Botham

 

[Muhammad10]

Pollock as a bowler is like a somewhat inferior version of Mcgrath.

As an overall cricketer, I would rank him slightly behind Hadlee and slightly ahead of Botham. An ATG all-rounder in my book.

I'll leave Kapil and Imran out of this discussion.

 

[hur rizvi]

Kapil,Botham and Imran could get into their sides purely as batsmen or bowlers.......Sir Richard Hadlee and Shaun Pollock cannot make it purely as batsmen...their batting is a bonus to their wonderful skills as bowlers.....similarly South Africa has a lot of better bowlers than Kallis but his bowling skill complements his batting talent,Same can be said for Sobers despite what the stats say.

Yeah compare Pollock the bowler to these players so he has a chance but as a pure allrounder he is maybe in the Mitchell Johnson,Wasim Akram category

No one of them would make the team as a Pure batter. A Pure batter can survive in tests Only with an average close or over 40. None of them had that, Even Imran having average 37 has many Not outs.

Hadlee and Pollock are both beter ARs than Kapil and Botham IMO. Sobers Kallis, and Imran are the best ARs of all time. Pollock and Hadlee are in second Tier whom I still rate as ATGs and then are Kapil and Botham.

 

[hur rizvi]

Pollock as a bowler is like a somewhat inferior version of Mcgrath.

As an overall cricketer, I would rank him slightly behind Hadlee and slightly ahead of Botham. An ATG all-rounder in my book.

I'll leave Kapil and Imran out of this discussion.

Why leave two Great ARs out of the discussion

Imran is better than Pollock, in both batting and Bowling. Kapil is only better in batting and Pollock is significantly better than him as a bowler.

 

[Muhammad10]

Why leave two Great ARs out of the discussion

Imran is better than Pollock, in both batting and Bowling. Kapil is only better in batting and Pollock is significantly better than him as a bowler.

I suppose, as overall cricketers, Pollock and Kapil can be rated at a similar level due to the added value of Kapil's captaincy, while Imran is ahead on the basis of numbers as well as captaincy.

 

[#GreenRoars]

As an AR, yes Pollock wasn't better than KD. But as a bowler, he was better than KD and also better than Botham.

 

[Adijazz1706]

I suppose, as overall cricketers, Pollock and Kapil can be rated at a similar level due to the added value of Kapil's captaincy, while Imran is ahead on the basis of numbers as well as captaincy.

Pllock captained as well, had trouble with Math tho

 

[hur rizvi]

I suppose, as overall cricketers, Pollock and Kapil can be rated at a similar level due to the added value of Kapil's captaincy, while Imran is ahead on the basis of numbers as well as captaincy.

Greatness is compared normally based on stats. Kapil has that edge of Captaincy in ODIs, In tests he did nothing exceptional as Captain

 

[Ab Fan]

Pollock is not better AR than Kapil or Botham.

Kapil had far more impact with ball than his numbers.He avgs 24 vs WI( best side in the world) while Pollock avgs 36 vs Aus. As a bowler Pollock is just slightly ahead of Kapil.

Kapil had to carry the weaker bowling team while Pollock mostly got overshadowed by Donald and Steyn in his team. As a bowler Pollock is just slightly ahead of Kapil or botham.

As a batsmen, again Kapil was well ahead and Botham was better than both of them. Botham had a total of 14 hunderds to his name.

Overall, as a bowler, Pollock>Kapil>Botham
As a batsmen, Botham>kapil>Pollock
As an ALL rounder - Botham/kapil> Pollock.

 

[blue_champion]

Pollock is not better AR than Kapil or Botham.

Kapil had far more impact with ball than his numbers.He avgs 24 vs WI( best side in the world) while Pollock avgs 36 vs Aus. As a bowler Pollock is just slightly ahead of Kapil.

Kapil had to carry the weaker bowling team while Pollock mostly got overshadowed by Donald and Steyn in his team. As a bowler Pollock is just slightly ahead of Kapil.

As a batsmen, again Kapil was well ahead and Botham was better than both of them. Botham had a total of 14 hunderds to his name.

Overall, as a bowler, Pollock>Kapil>Botham
As a batsmen, Botham>kapil>Pollock
As an ALL rounder - Botham/kapil> Pollock.

Pretty much this.....Also Pollock had likes of Donald and then Ntini,2 express bowlers at the other end...all he had to do was keep it tight and wickets would fall....As a batsman he was decent and that's about it.

For some reason criteria to praise Pollock ahead of Kapil and Botham disappears when it comes to Imran

 

[hur rizvi]

Pretty much this.....Also Pollock had likes of Donald and then Ntini,2 express bowlers at the other end...all he had to do was keep it tight and wickets would fall....As a batsman he was decent and that's about it.

For some reason criteria to praise Pollock ahead of Kapil and Botham disappears when it comes to Imran

Thats because Imran is better than Pollock in both disciplines.

 

[hur rizvi]

Pollock is not better AR than Kapil or Botham.

Kapil had far more impact with ball than his numbers.He avgs 24 vs WI( best side in the world) while Pollock avgs 36 vs Aus. As a bowler Pollock is just slightly ahead of Kapil.

Kapil had to carry the weaker bowling team while Pollock mostly got overshadowed by Donald and Steyn in his team. As a bowler Pollock is just slightly ahead of Kapil or botham.

As a batsmen, again Kapil was well ahead and Botham was better than both of them. Botham had a total of 14 hunderds to his name.

Overall, as a bowler, Pollock>Kapil>Botham
As a batsmen, Botham>kapil>Pollock
As an ALL rounder - Botham/kapil> Pollock.

Comparison should not be solely based on performance against best of the era. Yes KApil gets points for that but one can still argue that there is significant difference bwtween Pollock and Kapil/Botham as bowlers. Career average of 30 means Kapil was at level similar to broad. Where as Pollock was nearer to Mcgrath (Not better or equal but nearer).

Case can be made either way. Its not Pollock's fault if he had great bowlers in the team.

 

[blue_champion]

Why leave two Great ARs out of the discussion

Imran is better than Pollock, in both batting and Bowling. Kapil is only better in batting and Pollock is significantly better than him as a bowler.

Kapil has 2 10 wicket hauls vs Polliock 1,Kapil has 23 5 wicket hauls vs Pollock 16,Kapil has 434 wickets vs Pollock 421,Kapil played 16 years vs Pollock 13 years,Kapil has gun stats against the best team of his generation,where as Pollock has mediocre stats against the best team of his generation......So you are only looking at average??? Purely as a bowler,there can be a case made for Pollock against Kapil debate for another day....but as A/R Kapil is way way ahead.

And as a bowler no nothing suggests Pollock is significantly ahead.

Kapil played 86/131 games in Subcontinent...65 being in India

Pollock played 17/108 games in SC.

 

[Ab Fan]

Comparison should not be solely based on performance against best of the era. Yes KApil gets points for that but one can still argue that there is significant difference bwtween Pollock and Kapil/Botham as bowlers. Career average of 30 means Kapil was at level similar to broad. Where as Pollock was nearer to Mcgrath (Not better or equal but nearer).

Case can be made either way. Its not Pollock's fault if he had great bowlers in the team.

The point is not about Pollock having great bowlers in his team but the fact that he never stood up and took the lead and had lesser standout performance goes against him.

If anything its Donald or Steyn(tests) who are nearer to Mcgrath in tests not Pollock.

Pollock is a notch below Waqar as a bowler and a notch ahead of Broad.

Kapil/Botham with all of their averages and impact combined were individually better than Broad.

As a batter, its not even a contest.Pollock had 2 centuries only while Kapil and Botham were very useful batters down the order.

 

[Big Mac]

My God....

The INJUSTICE keeps rising.

This guy statistically is PERFECT.

Should be atleast regarded as ATG. I watched a bit of Pollock during my young days and he did scare me (probably cos I saw Indian batsmen poking a lot).

I feel your pain. Pollock played in a period filled with some of the greatest bowlers to ever play the game and he was as good as any of them.

Anybody saying he's not one of the all time greats doesn't know a damn thing.

 

[Ab Fan]

Numbers wise (although it sounds a bit funny),it goes like this:

Pollock was more of a 25-26 averaging bowler while Kapil/Botham were 27- 28 averaging.

Kapil/Botham were 32-34 averaging batsmen while Pollock was more of a 27-28.

 

[captain.hansolo]

No. Very good bowler though, similar class to Anderson. Though he's at the top of that class, while Anderson would be a lower middle.

are you serious? James Anderson is one of the finest fast bowler in the world and were it not for Steyn, he would be the absolute best bowler of the decade.

If you rate Pollock above Anderson, I am not sure what you are trying to suggest - was Pollock just mind bogglingly brilliant or do you think Anderson is mediocre. either suggestion is daft.

 

[Slog]

are you serious? James Anderson is one of the finest fast bowler in the world and were it not for Steyn, he would be the absolute best bowler of the decade.

If you rate Pollock above Anderson, I am not sure what you are trying to suggest - was Pollock just mind bogglingly brilliant or do you think Anderson is mediocre. either suggestion is daft.

Lol pollock is clearly better than Anderson

 

[Slog]

I feel your pain. Pollock played in a period filled with some of the greatest bowlers to ever play the game and he was as good as any of them.

Anybody saying he's not one of the all time greats doesn't know a damn thing.

A reason maybe because Pollock did often set up batsmen and Donald just ran though line ups. So Donald got more lime light

 

[blue_champion]

A reason maybe because Pollock did often set up batsmen and Donald just ran though line ups. So Donald got more lime light

Not really.......Pollock benefitted from having Donald at the other end who was fearsome. All he had to do was keep it tight and bowl good lines...and yes he was a very good bowler too but batsman needed some respite which he benefited from,not entirely but you can call that a factor.

 

[Big Mac]

And as a bowler no nothing suggests Pollock is significantly ahead.

Kapil played 86/131 games in Subcontinent...65 being in India

Pollock played 17/108 games in SC.

Kapil's bowling average in Asia: 29.01

Pollock's bowling average in Asia: 23.18
Pollock in Pak/Ind/SL (i.e. no Bangladesh): 24.81

are you serious? James Anderson is one of the finest fast bowler in the world and were it not for Steyn, he would be the absolute best bowler of the decade.

If you rate Pollock above Anderson, I am not sure what you are trying to suggest - was Pollock just mind bogglingly brilliant or do you think Anderson is mediocre. either suggestion is daft.

Wait, you're saying Anderson is better than Pollock?

 

[Justcrazy]

I think Pollock impact was less that is why he is underrated a bit .

He underachieved with the bat , probably batted a bit down the order. His bowling was solid in shorter format , consistency close to MacGrath.

 

[big_gamer007]

Pollock was a very effective bowler.. If you have watched cricket in 90's you would know he was very effective.. But he was just born in a wrong era and in a wrong country that he didn't get the recognition he deserves..

 

[big_gamer007]

Kapil's bowling average in Asia: 29.01

Pollock's bowling average in Asia: 23.18
Pollock in Pak/Ind/SL (i.e. no Bangladesh): 24.81



Wait, you're saying Anderson is better than Pollock?

Actually if you have watched Jimmy in full swing he is beautiful to watch.. Pollock is an honest trier and can be effective due to his perfect line and length but he never gave you the impression he would run through lineups or looked beautiful while bowling..

 

[zoro]

Just slightly off topic:

Pak wasim n waqar
SA donald n pollock
WI ambrose n walsh
Aus mcgrath n gillespie
ind srinath n prasad
SL vaas
Eng gough n caddick


Was there a better era for overal pace bowling among the big test nations than the 90s? I think not!

Back to thread i think pollock is atg. If i took 400 odd wickets and people were to say to me your not an atg, i would punch them in the mouth!

 

[Big Mac]

Actually if you have watched Jimmy in full swing he is beautiful to watch.. Pollock is an honest trier and can be effective due to his perfect line and length but he never gave you the impression he would run through lineups or looked beautiful while bowling..

All of this may be true but it doesn't change the fact that Anderson isn't fit to tie Pollock's boot laces.

 

[Ab Fan]

IMO, ALL rounders ranking:

Sobers
Imran
Hadlee
Kallis
Botham
Kapil
Pollock

All of them are ATG all rounders.

 

[big_gamer007]

All of this may be true but it doesn't change the fact that Anderson isn't fit to tie Pollock's boot laces.

Yes but not everyone looks cricket in the same way.. For someone seeing Jimmy in full flow would be the best thing and they would rate him above pollock for that reason.. It's their personal choice but overall as a bowler most people would consider pollock as a better bowl than Jimmy..

 

[Cricketrenew]

Not everyone can be a ATG....I think Pollock was a Great but not ATG, likes of Hadlee, Imran, Wasim,
Windies too many to mention Marshall, Dev, Botham?! was a ATG against Australia, Warne, Mcgrath.....
SA Kallis.....India too many batsmen but can't think of any bowlers...maybe Ashwin in the future.....

 

[Ab Fan]

If anyone is rating Anderson over Pollock then surely Pollock is underrated.

 

[Mamoon]

He is a better AR than Kapil and Botham both of them are regarded as ATGs

He surely is an ATG AR in tests

Not many people will take Pollock over Kapil and Botham.

As an all-rounder, he didn't have the same impact and charisma.

That's why people don't remember Pollock in the same vein as Imran, Kapil and Botham.

 

[Mamoon]

who are the other typical soft South African cricketers?

I think the reverse question is more important. Who have been the non-soft South African cricketers in the last 15-20 years.

None apart from Smith, Gibbs, Steyn and Klusener.

 

[Robert]

He is a better AR than Kapil and Botham both of them are regarded as ATGs

He surely is an ATG AR in tests

He was a better bowler than either of them but not as good a batter. Don't be fooled by averages. Botham and Kapil were both good enough to be picked in tests purely as batters. Pollock was a good #8.

 

[big_gamer007]

He was a better bowler than either of them but not as good a batter. Don't be fooled by averages. Botham and Kapil were both good enough to be picked in tests purely as batters. Pollock was a good #8.

Pollock did say in an interview he never focused on batting much, if he had he would have been a genuine AR... SA were blessed with ARs during Pollock's career so he did not had to concentrate on batting would just used to focus on bowling.. Had he been in any other team he could have been a pure AR..

But end of the day if's and but's don't count..

 

[shaz619]

His record is worthy of ATG status, those numbers are absolutely fantastic. I always enjoyed watching Pollock bowl and along with Donald I feared these bowlers more then any other in the SA team at the time when they'd play against pak. He was quiet handy with the bat to! criminally underrated. He'd be a global phenomenon if he were indian or pakistani come to think of it Kallis is underappreciated to

 

[shaz619]

He was a better bowler than either of them but not as good a batter. Don't be fooled by averages. Botham and Kapil were both good enough to be picked in tests purely as batters. Pollock was a good #8.

Anderson > Botham

 

[Hasan123]

Don't know about ATG but he is certainly underrated. Had immaculate line and length. His batting is a plus because his bowling was good enough for him to get more credit than he does. As people above have said probably lacked flair to get the recognition he deserved.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Reg Pollock the bowler...

I read through the thread.

Not a single valid objection on why he is not an ATG bowler.

Its more like "I have made up my mind so let me figure out an abstract way to justify my stance". The kind of abstract way that can be used to make any good or bad bowler look like world beater or okayish depending on how you want the end result to look.

Pollock was a ROCKSTAR ATG and better than Anderson.

Yes, Anderson is EASILY GREATER than Pollock when it swings and when he is in full zone.

That's true but cricket is not about who looks ruthless in one situation. Overall, pollock is a more effective bowler who could thrive in a variety of conditions much better than Anderson and he could maintain supreme consistency to get 400 wickets WITHOUT getting to play a gawd awful amount of tests every year that England plays (which can help you make the most of your peak).

400 wickets at 23 average with a perfectly balanced record in EVERY country (including Aus before his last tour as I have heard) PLUS average of 23 or below against every side in the world except Aus.

All you need to do is take one minute to switch off your mind and imagine Pollock to be an Indian/Pakistani/SL or even a Englishman or Aussie with THAT record and imagine the reaction. Now switch off that mind again and read this thread.

You will almost puke.

As zoro said:

If i took 400 odd wickets and people were to say to me your not an atg, i would punch them in the mouth

Bingo brother. Bingo.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Here's another stat that will knock people off:

Pollock took his first 300 wickets (in 8 years) at an average of 20.83.

His worst average in any country at that time was Aus (27).

300 wickets is ITSELF a sizable sample set.

And statistically that average is not ATG stuff...its GOAT stuff.

Last 100 wickets, he took at an average of 30 which brought his overall average to 23 after a 13 year old career.

Pollock should have retired in 2004 after taking 300 wickets. Would have been fun to hear the reasoning of others then.

 

[Hasan123]

Here's another stat that will knock people off:

Pollock took his first 300 wickets (in 8 years) at an average of 20.83.

His worst average in any country at that time was Aus (27).

300 wickets is ITSELF a sizable sample set.

And statistically that average is not ATG stuff...its GOAT stuff.

Last 100 wickets, he took at an average of 30 which brought his overall average to 23 after a 13 year old career.

Pollock should have retired in 2004 after taking 300 wickets. Would have been fun to hear the reasoning of others then.

Good he didn't retire in 2004 otherwise I would never have saw him bowl bro. Seen a couple of years of him. His line and length was unreal. An underrated bowler. Weather he is atg or not is up for debate!

 

[Ab Fan]

IMO, ALL rounders ranking:

Sobers
Imran
Hadlee
Kallis
Botham
Kapil
Pollock

All of them are ATG all rounders.

I back Ashwin to join this prestigious list of ATG All Rounders.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Good he didn't retire in 2004 otherwise I would never have saw him bowl bro. Seen a couple of years of him. His line and length was unreal. An underrated bowler. Weather he is atg or not is up for debate!

Yeah but most likely that was his regressed version.

Weather he is atg or not is up for debate!

Its not Hasan ji.

Its really really really not.

He is an ATG who was never given his due. Not saying he is GOAT due to his stats after 300 wickets but ATG he most definitely is.

The fact that its up for debate is due to perception created.

 

[Hasan123]

Yeah but most likely that was his regressed version.



Its not Hasan ji.

Its really really really not.

He is an ATG who was never given his due. Not saying he is GOAT due to his stats after 300 wickets but ATG he most definitely is.

The fact that its up for debate is due to perception created.

He still had good line and length bro.


It's more as a bowler he should be considered atg than for his all round ability. If he finished at 300 wickets he maybe considered an atg.

 

[kingusama92]

Definite ATG.

In his prime, he was fantastic.

I think he unfairly gets put down because he wasn't as much of a "star". Just went on about his business.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

It's more as a bowler he should be considered atg than for his all round ability. If he finished at 300 wickets he maybe considered an atg.

It doesn't work like that. If a player has achieved something great with a proper sample set, what he does later on will either enhance or not enhance his reputation.... but it will not diminish it.

All cricketers are judged that way.

Talking about Pollock the bowler.

 

[FreePalestine]

Just slightly off topic:

Pak wasim n waqar
SA donald n pollock
WI ambrose n walsh
Aus mcgrath n gillespie
ind srinath n prasad
SL vaas
Eng gough n caddick


Was there a better era for overal pace bowling among the big test nations than the 90s? I think not!

Back to thread i think pollock is atg. If i took 400 odd wickets and people were to say to me your not an atg, i would punch them in the mouth!

The 90's were great for fast bowling. I think the modern generation is the closest we've gotten since that time, with SA, Eng and Aus producing a lot of good fast bowlers. Pak too, but they are off match-fixing or being worked into the ground or ignored by selectors...

SA Steyn, Rabada, Morkel, Philander
WI Taylor
Aus Starc, Hazelwood, Pattison, Cummins
Ind Aaron, Kumar
SL
Eng Anderson, Woakes, Broad
Pak Amir