Was Wasim Akram the greatest fast bowler ever?

[Suleiman]

Did I say Steyn was better?

No as in, if Wasim is much superior to Steyn in ODIs and Steyn is at best marginally better than Wasim, then wouldn't Wasim be considered better than Steyn, not his equal or inferior to him?

 

[Zak_Fan]

No as in, if Wasim is much superior to Steyn in ODIs and Steyn is at best marginally better than Wasim, then wouldn't Wasim be considered better than Steyn, not his equal or inferior to him?

Akram has a Test SR of 55, Steyn's SR is 42 with a superior average. This is a big gulf, always rated bowlers like Waqar and Steyn very high for this wicket-taking ability.

Even in ODIs, Steyn isn't as bad as some people imagine. An average of 25.xx with an economy under 5 may not sound too impressive, but let's not forget that we are talking about an era where the likes of Rohit Sharma are scoring 264 runs in an ODI inning !

 

[Suleiman]

Akram has a Test SR of 55, Steyn's SR is 42 with a superior average. This is a big gulf, always rated bowlers like Waqar and Steyn very high for this wicket-taking ability.

Even in ODIs, Steyn isn't as bad as some people imagine. An average of 25.xx with an economy under 5 may not sound too impressive, but let's not forget that we are talking about an era where the likes of Rohit Sharma are scoring 264 runs in an ODI inning !

Fair enough. Though I still think Steyn is pretty average in ODIs, he's lucky to have faced our pathetic batsmen multiple times in 2013 alone where he may have padded up his stats nicely in LOIs, haven't checked the actual stats based on that year, but I think he made some pretty nice returns.

 

[Mamoon]

Steyn is rubbish in ODIs, the average of 25.xx actually flatters him, and it got below 30 only because of taking two 5 wicket hauls against a terrible Pakistani lineup in 2013.

The humiliation at the hands of Elliot in the 2015 World Cup semifinal sums up his deeply mediocre ODI careers.

If you are judging a strike bowler by his economy rate in ODIs, then he is not a strike bowler.

 

[Sidilicious]

I'd put Wasim Akram above Steyn (overall).

Steyn will need to perform at the current SR (42?) level for another couple of years in tests to be able to overtake Wasim. He would have then opened the gap in tests much more. In addition to that, the performance in Tests, are usually considered slightly superior to ODIs. But as of now Steyn aint better than Wasim.

I would also put Steyn over Waqar in combined Rankings.

But was Wasim the greatest ever? No

In ODI's, he is possibly the greatest.

Overall, from the modern era, Marshall & McGrath are better than him. Then we have the oldies like Syd Barnes, but I would not bring the oldies into this discussion.

 

[The Last Of The Stars]

Only in ODIs, I am talking overall.

Even Shoaib Akhtar was better than Dale Steyn in Tests. Dale Steyn rarely got to face quality batsmen, he just got lucky, it was an era of an almost no great batsmen.

 

[Hitman]

Even Shoaib Akhtar was better than Dale Steyn in Tests. Dale Steyn rarely got to face quality batsmen, he just got lucky, it was an era of an almost no great batsmen.

) This one takes both the cake and the bakery.

 

[street cricketer]

Even Shoaib Akhtar was better than Dale Steyn in Tests. Dale Steyn rarely got to face quality batsmen, he just got lucky, it was an era of an almost no great batsmen.

What!

 

[Robert]

Wasim isn't even the best bowler from Pakistan.

 

[The Last Of The Stars]

Wasim isn't even the best bowler from Pakistan.

In which format?

 

[Sidilicious]

Even Shoaib Akhtar was better than Dale Steyn in Tests. Dale Steyn rarely got to face quality batsmen, he just got lucky, it was an era of an almost no great batsmen.

So, it's funny that when the argument suits you, the pitches become flat and thus the batting averages undermined. When the argument suits you the bowlers, who have taken wickets in the era of flat pitches, performance get undermined due to average batsman.

You'll find that Steyn in the 2007-11 period had to contend with batsmen of the calibre of Tendulkar, Dravid, Ponting, KP, Sanga kind of ATG batsmen. Then you have the greats such as Laxman, Sehwag, Younis, Jaya, Chanderpaul, Clarke who he has also played agianst. He has definitely proved his mettle against the best.



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[The Last Of The Stars]

So, it's funny that when the argument suits you, the pitches become flat and thus the batting averages undermined. When the argument suits you the bowlers, who have taken wickets in the era of flat pitches, performance get undermined due to average batsman.

You'll find that Steyn in the 2007-11 period had to contend with batsmen of the calibre of Tendulkar, Dravid, Ponting, KP, Sanga kind of ATG batsmen. Then you have the greats such as Laxman, Sehwag, Younis, Jaya, Chanderpaul, Clarke who he has also played agianst. He has definitely proved his mettle against the best.



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Sachin, Dravid and Ponting were on their last legs. And no other batsmen, who came afterwards, could match these players. KP once made him look like an ordinary bowler. Hence, proved, he hasn't proved his mettle against the best. And Sangakkara isn't an ATG.

 

[Sidilicious]

Sachin, Dravid and Ponting were on their last legs. And no other batsmen, who came afterwards, could match these players. KP once made him look like an ordinary bowler. Hence, proved, he hasn't proved his mettle against the best. And Sangakkara isn't an ATG.

Please go and see the scores for India's tour of SA in 2010-11. That was the last test series before Sachin started declining. The way Sachin batted and Steyn bowled is considered one of the premier battles in world cricket.

Also, please go and see the scores for SA's tour of India in 2008 and 2010. Sachin scored a total of 2-3 centuries in those series, and Steyn still blew the Indian batting a couple of times.


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[The Last Of The Stars]

) This one takes both the cake and the bakery.

What!

Akhtar made the best batsman and best team of all time look ordinary. What has Steyn done? Feasted in this era of almost no ATG batsmen.

 

[The Last Of The Stars]

Please go and see the scores for India's tour of SA in 2010-11. That was the last test series before Sachin started declining. The way Sachin batted and Steyn bowled is considered one of the premier battles in world cricket.

Also, please go and see the scores for SA's tour of India in 2008 and 2010. Sachin scored a total of 2-3 centuries in those series, and Steyn still blew the Indian batting a couple of times.


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Sachin was on his last legs, still.

 

[Hitman]

Akhtar made the best batsman and best team of all time look ordinary. What has Steyn done? Feasted in this era of almost no ATG batsmen.

Really? He averages 35.64 @SR 56.4 against Australia. Against other fine batting line up of India, he averages 34.50 @SR 61.9

Akhtar isn't good enough to clean Steyn's socks let alone carry his shoes.

 

[Hitman]

Sachin was on his last legs, still.

No he wasn't. He had one of his finest years in both forms of the game in 2010. He scored almost 1400 Test runs at an average of around 78 in 2010. He was the #1 ICC Test batsman during and after that series.

 

[The Last Of The Stars]

Really? He averages 35.64 @SR 56.4 against Australia. Against other fine batting line up of India, he averages 34.50 @SR 61.9

Akhtar isn't good enough to clean Steyn's socks let alone carry his shoes.

He made Sachin, the best batsman of all time, look like a nobody. He destroyed the best team of all time like no one else. This matters more.

 

[The Last Of The Stars]

No he wasn't. He had one of his finest years in both forms of the game in 2010. He scored almost 1400 Test runs at an average of around 78 in 2010. He was the #1 Test batsman during and after that series.

That was the last phase of his career, still.

 

[Hitman]

That was the last phase of his career, still.

How does it matter whether it was the last the last phase of his career when he was dominating like like he did in his prime?

 

[Hitman]

He made Sachin, the best batsman of all time, look like a nobody. He destroyed the best team of all time like no one else. This matters more.

You need to get a grip over yourself. Have a look at his pathetically poor average against Australia and India. Both Australia and India made mince meat of him making him look like a third grade bowler.

Regarding Sachin, he dismissed him just thrice in Test cricket. McGrath dismissed Lara 14 times in Tests, and that's what's called making a batsman nobody.

 

[The Last Of The Stars]

You need to get a grip over yourself. Have a look at his pathetically poor average against Australia and India. Both Australia and India made mince meat of him making him look like a third grade bowler.

Regarding Sachin, he dismissed him just thrice in Test cricket. McGrath dismissed Lara 14 times in Tests, and that's what's called making a batsman nobody.

Akhtar's first dismissal of Sachin was more than enough to make him look like a nobody.

 

[The Last Of The Stars]

How does it matter whether it was the last the last phase of his career when he was dominating like like he did in his prime?

No, he wasn't as dominating, his reflexes had slowed down.

 

[street cricketer]

Akhtar made the best batsman and best team of all time look ordinary. What has Steyn done? Feasted in this era of almost no ATG batsmen.

Akhtar averaged 35 with a strike rate of almost 60 against the two best batting sides of his era.

Have a look at Steyn's stats in the last ten years. Look how far he is ahead of his peers. If you are still not convinced, I can't help it.

 

[The Last Of The Stars]

Akhtar averaged 35 with a strike rate of almost 60 against the two best batting sides of his era.

Have a look at Steyn's stats in the last ten years. Look how far he is ahead of his peers. If you are still not convinced, I can't help it.

View attachment 67466

View attachment 67467

Dale Steyn was rarely tested against ATG batsmen. Indians are just obsessed with him. Lol.

 

[SL_Fan]

Overall McGrath and Ambrose are the only ones slightly ahead of Wasim for mine. In terms of pure skill tho he’s ahead of both. He could do things with the ball that others could only ever dream of. One of a kind.

 

[street cricketer]

Dale Steyn was rarely tested against ATG batsmen. Indians are just obsessed with him. Lol.

Nah, he is very much underrated in PP.

It's true that he is ordinary in LOIs. However that doesn't deny his quality or his accomplishments in the longer format. And it's not his fault anyway that he wasn't born in an era of ATG batsmen. When it comes to batsmen, it's an era of flat tracks. When it comes to bowlers, it's an era devoid of ATG batsmen. Sounds like hypocrisy to me.

 

[rollingstoned]

Steyn is rubbish in ODIs, the average of 25.xx actually flatters him, and it got below 30 only because of taking two 5 wicket hauls against a terrible Pakistani lineup in 2013.

The humiliation at the hands of Elliot in the 2015 World Cup semifinal sums up his deeply mediocre ODI careers.

If you are judging a strike bowler by his economy rate in ODIs, then he is not a strike bowler.

If Steyn was bowling in ODIs in the late 90s early 00s he would have been averaging late teens. There are no truly great ODI bowlers going around now because of how LOI cricket has changed and despite that he has a respectable average IMO. He's only played like 100 ODIs so it doesn't seem as though it's anywhere close to the format he prefers most anyway.

 

[Hitman]

A cricketer is judged by how highly his peers rate him, that's what matters the most. Why do you think Dennis Lillee is considered the best bowler of his era? Because almost all of his contemporaries including Imran Khan consider him the best of their time. Wasim Akram has been rated by a lot of his contemporaries as the best fast bowler of his time. An absolute GENIUS.

 

[The Last Of The Stars]

Overall McGrath and Ambrose are the only ones slightly ahead of Wasim for mine. In terms of pure skill tho he’s ahead of both. He could do things with the ball that others could only ever dream of. One of a kind.

Ambrose is overrated.

 

[Hitman]

Ambrose is overrated.

Yea, a bowler with more than 400 Test wickets at an average of less than 21 is certainly overrated. That 'Actor' was in fact much better.

 

[The Last Of The Stars]

Yea, a bowler with more than 400 Test wickets at an average of less than 21 is certainly overrated. That 'Actor' was in fact much better.

I meant in the context, where people rate him better than Wasim.

 

[Hitman]

I meant in the context, where people rate him better than Wasim.

So Ambrose with more than 400 Test wickets at an average of less than 21 is inferior to Wasim Akram with more than 400 wickets at an average of almost 24. Yea, great logic!

 

[cricketjoshila]

So Ambrose with more than 400 Test wickets at an average of less than 21 is inferior to Wasim Akram with more than 400 wickets at an average of almost 24. Yea, great logic!

How many wickets for Ambrose in the subcontinent?Thank You.

 

[Hitman]

How many wickets for Ambrose in the subcontinent?Thank You.

Played just 6 matches in Asia with an average of 22.50 ...... so you can't can't call him a failure in Asia.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Played just 6 matches in Asia with an average of 22.50 ...... so you can't can't call him a failure in Asia.

I asked how many wickets.And if you can manage it in which countries.Thank you.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Good on ya Wasim ! You were the most skilful fast bowler that I played with or against !!!!! <a href="https://t.co/b56h1UH9aY">https://t.co/b56h1UH9aY</a></p>— Shane Warne (@ShaneWarne) <a href="https://twitter.com/ShaneWarne/status/942335242496393216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">17 December 2017</a></blockquote>
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[Ab Fan]

In odis, yes!

In tests, he is behind some names.

He is however Pakistan best test bowler, ahead of Imran all formats combined.

 

[Hasan123]

Only McGrath is arguably ahead of him.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Great ball by Mitchell Starc, but Wasim Akram at his best was bowling deliveries like that in every match he played <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/942350097492402176?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 17, 2017</a></blockquote>
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[troodon]

Most skilled and unplayable bowler.

 

[Cuts_and_cuts_hard]

Not even the best test bowler from Pakistan. IK> Wasim.

 

[big_gamer007]

Most skillful fast bowler, inspired plenty of young fast bowlers all over the world, the fact that he was a left arm bowler helped him as well.. All in all one of the best bowlers ever..

The greatest bowler ever? Different people will have different views some will say effectiveness and stats are better tHan flair others will argue if a game was lost Wasim had ability to win it from that situation.. However no one can deny he is definitely a top 5 fast bowler of all time..

 

[Cuts_and_cuts_hard]

However no one can deny he is definitely a top 5 fast bowler of all time..

Problem is there are a lot of contenders for the top 5.

Marshall
McGrath
Ambrose
Hadlee
Imran
Wasim
Steyn
Donald
Trueman
Lillee

All these and more are among the top tier

 

[big_gamer007]

Problem is there are a lot of contenders for the top 5.

Marshall
McGrath
Ambrose
Hadlee
Imran
Wasim
Steyn
Donald
Trueman
Lillee

All these and more are among the top tier

Donald - No though not his fault his peak years were ruined by the ban..
Trueman - No, he was a great for his era but his era wasn’t anywhere close to post war era.
Hadlee - No is slightly behind the tier Wasim is in.

Rest yes one can make an argument about them.. However what Wasim has on most of them is that he has an exceptional record in ODI’s as well which is no fault of someone like IK or Marshall who played in an era where ODI’s were not that popular.

 

[Bewal Express]

For me the best bowlers get the best batsman out. The best batsman bat 1-7, but its really the top 4. So if an analysis is done on who got the most top 4 wickets of the oppostion then a clearer picture will emerge. Anecdotally, his bowling in tests was always good but rarely hit the heights that are claimed for him. For me he knocked out the tail very efficiently and that is not easy but getting Tufnell and Malcolm is not the same as getting as Lara and Tendulkar although in the stats they are treated the same.

 

[Cuts_and_cuts_hard]

Donald - No though not his fault his peak years were ruined by the ban..
Trueman - No, he was a great for his era but his era wasn’t anywhere close to post war era.
Hadlee - No is slightly behind the tier Wasim is in.

Rest yes one can make an argument about them.. However what Wasim has on most of them is that he has an exceptional record in ODI’s as well which is no fault of someone like IK or Marshall who played in an era where ODI’s were not that popular.

Hadlee has an insanely complete record and was a lone horse. He is definitely comparable to Wasim

Trueman played in a tuktuk era but still has an amazing strike rate comparable to modern bowlers. Great bowler.

 

[big_gamer007]

Hadlee has an insanely complete record and was a lone horse. He is definitely comparable to Wasim

Trueman played in a tuktuk era but still has an amazing strike rate comparable to modern bowlers. Great bowler.

Let’s agree to disagree if there is ever a poll about top 5 greatest fast bowlers I am sure Wasim wouldnfewture in most of the people’s votes..

 

[shaz619]

He's the ultimate GOAT, only salty indians disagree.

 

[bujhee kom]

Most gifted for sure. Most complete for sure. A few have better stats but Akram is #1 for peer review and has ace stats in any case. He is only not 1st as he lacked a 6th gear.

Top 5 quick of all time. Best leftie ever and best ODI bowler ever. 1st ballot AT Test X1 cricketer.