Wasn't Brian Lara's 400* a selfish knock?

[OZGOD]

The thing is the world remembers a 400* rather than a WI win in that test match really. I'd go for it and so would many if you were in that situation. Regardless of whether he was out or not, it was a magnificent display of concentration etc.

Don't forget that Lara's place in the team both as a batsman and as a captain was also in question at that point. The 400 didn't quell the doubts about the captaincy, but certainly it took away the whinging about whether or not he deserved a spot in the team.

 

[yadunoe]

It's all about context.

Like I said, the series was over. Essentially, the match was reduced to a 5 day practice.

ya agreed, match didnt really matter

 

[King Cobra]

Depends at how you look at it.

I remember West Indies had a terrible series getting slaughtered and the last test was going nowhere, there was nothing to salvage. Lara then went into his groove and the record beckoned and all were geeing him to break Haydens record and reclaim the world record, including the commentators.

If you look back on it through statistics it may appear selfish, but that record brought smiles back to the Windies fans and I guess a bit of pride, which otherwise would not have happened.

Ok means yeah he prefered to break his record instead of declaring at 600 so that his team can have a little chance of a win . Thats selfish .

Am sure if Indian send Rahul Dravid to bat in dead matches on a flat phatta track and give him the option to bat for 5 days without worrying about the outcome of the match and just keep of batting tuk tuk tuk , then even Dravid can break that record by playing selfishly in a dead match .

But that wont happen because you play to win and not for creating /breaking milestones .

 

[Justcrazy]

Yes it can be said to an extent. Also the pitch was real flat, do not think it would have made much difference had Lara declared a little early.

 

[IgnitedMind]

Double standards is laughable...

 

[VolcanicAsh]

Of course it was selfish he put stats before the cause of his team in this game but Lara also won plenty of games for WI with some unbelievable knock. You can be selfish but if you perform when the chips are down or perform in Big games/series than all is forgiven the problem with Teendu is that not only does he play for stats but he also fails in big game and specially when India really needs him. He chokes on big occasions and that's where the difference lies when people assess these two.

Teendu is one of the best players of the modern era and great ambassador for India unlike many of their youngsters but there is no denying that stats is what drives Teendu not team results.

 

[srh]

definitely a selfish inning.

Question: A limited overs match. The team batting first has a player on 99 and on last ball of the inning he scored 1 run to complete his century. The team batting second wins the match in a thriller. Would you call that player's inning from 1st team as more selfish than Lara's 400?

 

[eradicator]

Of course it was selfish he put stats before the cause of his team in this game but Lara also won plenty of games for WI with some unbelievable knock. You can be selfish but if you perform when the chips are down or perform in Big games/series than all is forgiven the problem with Teendu is that not only does he play for stats but he also fails in big game and specially when India really needs him. He chokes on big occasions and that's where the difference lies when people assess these two.

Teendu is one of the best players of the modern era and great ambassador for India unlike many of their youngsters but there is no denying that stats is what drives Teendu not team results.

ok ok

And tell me how many big series / matches did Lara win for his country ? Performed brilliantly in exactly which world cup leave alone taking his side to the victory ?

Out of his 34 Hundreds , 26 have come in Defeats/Draws with only 8 coming in won matches .

So where do these chips down / big series wins performances given by Lara actually exist ?

Which match winning Inning of Lara can you remember from 2000- till he retired ?

 

[Romali_rotti]

ok ok

And tell me how many big series / matches did Lara win for his country ? Performed brilliantly in exactly which world cup leave alone taking his side to the victory ?

Out of his 34 Hundreds , 26 have come in Defeats/Draws with only 8 coming in won matches .

So where do these chips down / big series wins performances given by Lara actually exist ?

Which match winning Inning of Lara can you remember from 2000- till he retired ?

I could be wrong but apparently Lara is one of the greatest match loser of all time.. But butttt waittt you will see a few Pakistanis saying: Oh Oh but but he had a poor team well SRT had a horrible side as well during all of the 90's and early 2000s. SRT never had a decent fast bowler during most of his career while Laura had dudes like Ambrose, Walsh etc for a lot of years when he was playing........

 

[Romali_rotti]

Which match winning Inning of Lara can you remember from 2000- till he retired ?

He had that 1 or 2 knocks against OZ @ HOME, but he also had players like Ambrose etc on that side....We all know the issue here, the plain fact is SRT is Indian and it is absolutely earth shattering for them, this is where I believe Indian fans are a class above the Pakistanis as to the best of my knowledge they always gave their props to players like Wasim & Imran etc achknowledging them as some of the greatest players of all time...

 

[eradicator]

He had that 1 or 2 knocks against OZ @ HOME, but he also had players like Ambrose etc on that side....We all know the issue here, the plain fact is SRT is Indian and it is absolutely earth shattering for them, this is where I believe Indian fans are a class above the Pakistanis as to the best of my knowledge they always gave their props to players like Wasim & Imran etc achknowledging them as some of the greatest players of all time...

Yeah right I remember those couple of good knocks as well and they were just a good couple of knocks in a career of 131 test matches yet some posters here are making it look like Lara has won countless matches for the West Indies . I guess they dont realize or deliberatly ignore that Lara has more than 5000 runs in lost matches , 1000 more than any other international batsmen yet it seems like only India loses while Tendulkar scores a century whereas every damn run scored by Lara resulted into a team victory .

We would always listen to the same argument that " How many world cups has Tendulkar won ?" Now since that has been answered with a tight slap in the last world cup , you would never see such arguments being raised for Lara as he is automatically assumed to be a Match Winner , has 30+ Match Winning Hundreds and 4 World Cups.

And if any one wants to have a quick laugh then they must visit this thread to look at the naivety with which very innocent Pak fans who are quickest judgers of " Selfish Factor " are defending Lara 400* knock with all hilarious excuses

 

[Hasan123]

Yes it was selfish no doubt.

 

[The_KING]

Who cares if it was a selfish knock? An opportunity to get a 400 is once in a life time opportunity. Nothing wrong with being selfish when you are about to make history. Lol at people who criticise Lara for scoring 400.

 

[msb314]

It was certainly a selfish knock but lets be real - no one even remembers the scoreline in that series anymore but it has become synonymous with Lara breaking the record now.

Any other batsman in his position would have done the same thing...

 

[msb314]

Yes it was selfish no doubt.

haha how did you find this thread?

 

[pillionrider]

The fact that he reclaimed his world record from Hayden who got it pummeling a weak Zimbabwean team makes it worth it. Who cares if West Indies had won or drawn that game. How many months would that achievement have lasted in fans' memory?

400 on the other hand, while reclaiming something that was rightfully yours is one for the memory.

Totally worth it. Bonus points for Opposition = England

 

[Hasan123]

haha how did you find this thread?

Type in Lara in the search bat and you'll find it. There are other threads comparing him with Sachin.

 

[Bilal7]

If his team was okay with it, it really isn't.

 

[Gilly]

It was great batting that will not change, I think it bought mixed results for Lara. First he put his name back on the top of the individual score list and to some it brings prestige to West Indies cricket.

For some others it typifies Lara's attitude to test cricket, it was more about him than the team and this shows how he placed his ego above his team. Unfortunately it gives room to attack Lara about his ego.

Best case scenario would have been if he scored these runs in a situation where he was saving the match.

 

[Statsman]

If his team was okay with it, it really isn't.

Cant say. Iirc teammate Ridley Jacobs wrote against it. Even his peers (e.g. Pointing) described it as selfish.

 

[Hitman]

Cant say. Iirc teammate Ridley Jacobs wrote against it. Even his peers (e.g. Pointing) described it as selfish.

Ridley Jacobs absolutely blasted Lara for that knock and for his over all attitude in general.

 

[Bewal Express]

Yes, As good Lara was, his attitude was the main catalyst( along with a terrible board) for the decline of WI`s.

 

[Bilal7]

Cant say. Iirc teammate Ridley Jacobs wrote against it. Even his peers (e.g. Pointing) described it as selfish.

Was he the only one? If there weren't any other then it seems like his team wanted him to get it.

Peers don't really factor into this. Ponting would want to discredit Lara's achievement to make himself seem like the superior batsman.

 

[Buffet]

It was selfish knock for sure. Wasn't he also the captain in that test?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Pillion rider has a good point.

It was a selfish knock but in the end, I guess this 400* would have given more joy to WI fans than some random dead rubber win.

But when it comes to how its perceived in cricket community, I haven't seen one instance where someone talked about this knock without mentioning about Lara's selfishness. Quite similar to SRT's 100th 100.

What's interesting is that Lara averaged 80 in that series against Eng.

20 when the series was alive and 80 after that knock.

 

[Gilly]

Was he the only one? If there weren't any other then it seems like his team wanted him to get it.

Peers don't really factor into this. Ponting would want to discredit Lara's achievement to make himself seem like the superior batsman.

You don't know Ponting very well, probably have never read anything he wrote or watched any of his interviews to know how much credit he gave to his opposition. When asked about Lara's knock and how the Australian team would have viewed his decision to bat for the record Ponting replied
"It's hard to imagine an Australian player doing it," Ponting told AAP, notwithstanding the fact that Matthew Hayden came within 20 runs of doing exactly that against Zimbabwe last October. "It's generally not the way we play our cricket. Their whole first innings might have been geared around one individual performance and they could have let a Test match slip because of it. They ran out of time in the game - that's not the way the Australian team plays.".
Of course the reporter included the following clickbait as headlines
Ponting points finger at 'selfish' Lara

Now before you go off on a tangent thinking I'm being defensive I don't really care if you think what you do but I have just provided you with some facts and you can make up your own mind from there. If you or anyone else wants to think that Ponting called it selfish or Ponting was trying to make himself look better than I'm fine with that, I'm just sharing information.

 

[Thivagar]

Lara and Sachin selfish as anyone can be. Just watch their interviews and read their auto biographies. It is all about "I" and "Me".

 

[Tekcirc]

Australians have the old habit of doing this . Remember Mark Taylor doing in against Pakistan . 334 not out .

I think Taylor declared short of Bradman's record, out of respect for the legend.

 

[Hasan123]

Was he the only one? If there weren't any other then it seems like his team wanted him to get it.

Peers don't really factor into this. Ponting would want to discredit Lara's achievement to make himself seem like the superior batsman.

Punter wouldn't want to discredit Lara. Lol he won't care if people think Lara is the better player. He has 3 World Cups medals.

 

[Bilal7]

Punter wouldn't want to discredit Lara. Lol he won't care if people think Lara is the better player. He has 3 World Cups medals.

You obviously don't know how competition works.

You don't know Ponting very well, probably have never read anything he wrote or watched any of his interviews to know how much credit he gave to his opposition. When asked about Lara's knock and how the Australian team would have viewed his decision to bat for the record Ponting replied
"It's hard to imagine an Australian player doing it," Ponting told AAP, notwithstanding the fact that Matthew Hayden came within 20 runs of doing exactly that against Zimbabwe last October. "It's generally not the way we play our cricket. Their whole first innings might have been geared around one individual performance and they could have let a Test match slip because of it. They ran out of time in the game - that's not the way the Australian team plays.".
Of course the reporter included the following clickbait as headlines
Ponting points finger at 'selfish' Lara

Now before you go off on a tangent thinking I'm being defensive I don't really care if you think what you do but I have just provided you with some facts and you can make up your own mind from there. If you or anyone else wants to think that Ponting called it selfish or Ponting was trying to make himself look better than I'm fine with that, I'm just sharing information.

I do believe that Ponting was discrediting Lara's achievement.

 

[Mamoon]

Ponting's public admiration for Tendulkar throughout his career is enough evidence that he is/was above discrediting his rivals.

 

[Gilly]

You obviously don't know how competition works.

I do believe that Ponting was discrediting Lara's achievement.

We all know Ponting better than you.

A couple of quotes from Pontings book "The close of play"

Page 351 talking about captaining in the World XI v Asian XI tsunami match.
"I have no problems confessing I was a little starstruck, even if I was the World XI captain. Being at the other end while Brian Lara was crafting his innings or as Chris Cairns bludgeoned sixes was a cricket fans dream. Its not often I enjoyed watching these guys make runs and I remember batting with Lara for a couple of reasons besides the simple pleasure of seeing from a different angle how he went about his craft."

Page 352
"When India's Anil Kumble came on to bowl his quick wrist spin I asked the Great West Indian how he usually played him, and he replied that in the 50-over games he liked to hit most spinners through or over the gap between cover or mid off. Just watch me,'he said, and then, when ever Kumble overpitched even a fraction, he was after him. It didnt matter if it was a leg break, a top spinner or a wrong-un, Brian was happy to trust his extraordinary hand-eye coordination and uncanny judgement of length, and hit to that area in the offside, initially just for ones and two's, and then for a couple of fours. I marvelled at his skill"

So you just dont know Ponting half as well as most people do.

 

[Hasan123]

You obviously don't know how competition works.

I do believe that Ponting was discrediting Lara's achievement.

Yes I do know how competition works. Australian players care about the team 1st and will put the team ahead of individual stats or individual performance.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OnThisDay?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#OnThisDay</a> in 2004 <br><br>West Indies legend <a href="https://twitter.com/BrianLara?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BrianLara</a> made history by scoring 400* runs in a single Test innings – the most by any batter <a href="https://t.co/aQOlpPWIjx">pic.twitter.com/aQOlpPWIjx</a></p>— ICC (@ICC) <a href="https://twitter.com/ICC/status/1513872130223575048?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 12, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Fanboy375]

Is 400 best triple century knock.If not what is it?To me it has to be Jayawardena 374 vs SA

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Is 400 best triple century knock.If not what is it?To me it has to be Jayawardena 374 vs SA

Sehwag v Pak in Multan
Amla V England

These are two knocks that come to mind for me.

As far as the thread title. Cricket has changed a lot since then. Nowadays nobody could bat for so long and not be called selfish but back then it wasn't too bad a thing a to do.

 

[mominsaigol]

Sehwag v Pak in Multan
Amla V England

These are two knocks that come to mind for me.

As far as the thread title. Cricket has changed a lot since then. Nowadays nobody could bat for so long and not be called selfish but back then it wasn't too bad a thing a to do.

I'm fine with that knock as it goes down in the history books.

This + Lara 502 in FC just cant he broken and won't be broken no matter how much a player wants to stat pad on flat tracks.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I'm fine with that knock as it goes down in the history books.

This + Lara 502 in FC just cant he broken and won't be broken no matter how much a player wants to stat pad on flat tracks.

501 he scored at a SR >100 after they conceeded 550+ and a day got rained off too. So its not too selfish.

400* was a massive individual achievement and I agree with you, I'm ok with it too, but if someone wants to argue its selfish then they wouldn't be saying something thats outrageous. You cna look at it either way.

 

[mominsaigol]

501 he scored at a SR >100 after they conceeded 550+ and a day got rained off too. So its not too selfish.

400* was a massive individual achievement and I agree with you, I'm ok with it too, but if someone wants to argue its selfish then they wouldn't be saying something thats outrageous. You cna look at it either way.

True but you have to account for how difficult it is.

Brooks wasnt able to do it and got tired out on the easiest pitch vs the easiest bowling against Pakistan.

You need to have insane stamina + insane concentration to pull it off. Highly doubt anyone could do it. Even test legends like Sachin, Steve smith etc probably would cap at 300 max.

 

[Bhaijaan]

One of the most disgusting and disgraceful knocks ever played.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Sehwag v Pak in Multan
Amla V England

These are two knocks that come to mind for me.

As far as the thread title. Cricket has changed a lot since then. Nowadays nobody could bat for so long and not be called selfish but back then it wasn't too bad a thing a to do.

For me it’s got to be Sehwag’s 319 against South Africa in Chennai. It’s the most devastating triple century ever scored in test cricket. Did it against a raging pace attack of Dale Steyn, Ntini & Morne Morkel.

In just 304 deliveries.
5 sixes, 42 fours

The strokeplay was devastating.
Sehwag at his killer best

 

[BunnyRabbit]

It's fine really. They weren't going to win the series either. For WI it's always different as it's a team of multiple countries rather than one.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Chanderpaul played much more selfish knocks than Lara ever did.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

For me it’s got to be Sehwag’s 319 against South Africa in Chennai. It’s the most devastating triple century ever scored in test cricket. Did it against a raging pace attack of Dale Steyn, Ntini & Morne Morkel.

In just 304 deliveries.
5 sixes, 42 fours

The strokeplay was devastating.
Sehwag at his killer best

Do you think pitch was a phatta?

made a duck and crowd silence was kind of funny.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Do you think pitch was a phatta?

made a duck and crowd silence was kind of funny.

All triple centuries are scored on great batting pitches. It’s the manner in which you do it.

Someone like a Younis Khan taking forever to score one at Karachi never earned any respect in my eyes.

But Sehwag firing all cylinders and going bonkers was always box office stuffs

 

[mominsaigol]

All triple centuries are scored on great batting pitches. It’s the manner in which you do it.

Someone like a Younis Khan taking forever to score one at Karachi never earned any respect in my eyes.

But Sehwag firing all cylinders and going bonkers was always box office stuffs

Lol no, a triple century in winning or drawing causes are triple centuries .

Sachin is a great cricketer and one of the reasons hes respected is due to the fact that he was a goat in both test and odi. He was clearly the best player of his era,

However unlike Bradman and Prime Steve Smith he was never leagues > anyone.

Currently due to Steve Smith's form dip, he and Sachin are more or less equal in tests, however in Smith's prime he was so far > anyone in test that the no 2 test batter kohli seemed like an after thought.

Kohli got extremely unlucky in test because his prime was seen as second fiddle to smith and after that he fell off.

Sachin in the other hand had many equals in tests, its just he outlasted all of them due to consistency and never losing form but despite batting on great pitches he never mustered a 300, never managed to score 500+ runs in a series.

Only 2x top scorered year by year.

Sachin is unmatched in odi for his era, essentially similar to viv Richards as viv had no equal, but in test cricket sachin had many equals and many superiors for a while, its just he remained consistent while others didnt.

Prime Ponting was > Sachin in test but due to a poor record in india and collapsing like a house of bricks at the back end of his career, sachin is obviously superior.

Not the case with Steve smith who continued to remain no 1. However yes smith also suffered from the classic loss of form which is why he's now viewed = Sachin and not massively > him like he use to in his prime.