"We can't live in the past. We also have a list of wanted in India" : Imran Khan

[MenInG]

Pakistan Prime Minister Imran Khan, who has called for peaceful ties with India, today said "he can't be held responsible for the past" when asked by NDTV about India's 'Most Wanted' terrorist Dawood Ibrahim. "We can't live in the past. We also have a list of wanted in India... It is not in our interest to allow use of Pakistan's territory for terror outside," Imran Khan told NDTV in Islamabad.

Dawood Ibrahim masterminded the 1993 blasts in which 12 bombs went off at different locations across Mumbai, killing 257 and leaving over 700 injured. Listed as a global terrorist by a committee of the UN Security Council, Dawood Ibrahim continues to evade arrest and stay in Pakistan.

India's assertion that he has been sheltered by Pakistan was confirmed this year when the latest list of terror organisations and terrorists released by the UN Security Council included Dawood Ibrahim and his Karachi address.

On Mumbai terror attacks mastermind Hafiz Saeed, who continues to roam free in Pakistan, Imran Khan said, "There are UN sanctions against Hafiz Saeed. There is already a clampdown on the Jamaat-ud-Dawah chief. These are the issues we have inherited". Hafiz Saeed was put under house arrest after the 26/11 Mumbai terror attack, but was freed by a court in Pakistan in 2009. He carries a reward of $10 million, announced by the US for his role in terror activities.

Imran Khan had said that both his government and the Pakistan army want a "civilized relationship" with India

In an interaction that lasted 30 minutes, Imran Khan explained why he was pitching aggressively for talks. "After the Parliament attack, I saw the two armies come face to face. And then after the Mumbai attack, it went back to square one. Aman ki khwaish tab se hai (Have been wishing for peace since then)".

Imran Khan, after the groundbreaking ceremony for the Kartarpur corridor yesterday, had said that both his government and the Pakistan army want a "civilized relationship" with India, and claimed that the Kashmir dispute can be resolved only through talks and a healthy respect for humanity. His reference to Kashmir was objected to by New Delhi.

"I said the two steps on Day 1 (after taking oath) but I got such a bad response when meeting at the UN was cancelled. Why have such conditions for talks? As if there is no intention for peace. We will now wait for April after elections for talks," he told NDTV today.

Pakistan, earlier this week, also said they will invite Prime Minister Narendra Modi for the SAARC summit, however, Foreign Minister Sushma Swaraj had declared that India will not attend the summit, emphasising that the Kartarpur corridor project between the two countries will not lead to talks unless Pakistan stops sponsoring terror.

The 2016 SAARC summit, scheduled to be held in Pakistan, was cancelled after India refused to attend, citing concerns over continued cross-border terrorism. Later, Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Bhutan also dropped out.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/pak...t-be-held-respon-1955355?pfrom=home-topscroll

 

[jusarrived]

Credit to Imran if he genuinely wants to resolve issues with India and move on and I hope India reciprocates .

Waiting till the new govt is formed in India is a good idea though . At this point any steps from indian govt towards making peace with Pakistan will be politicised , so they will not risk that with elections just few months to go.

 

[the Great Khan]

Credit to Imran if he genuinely wants to resolve issues with India and move on and I hope India reciprocates .

Waiting till the new govt is formed in India is a good idea though . At this point any steps from indian govt towards making peace with Pakistan will be politicised , so they will not risk that with elections just few months to go.

True but I believe they have already started small steps. e.g. the kartarpur interaction, Sidhu arriving etc. I think Modi has a bit of a problem with his hawks. I think he is pragmatic and will not want to be seen to be a "war hawk" when compared to IK. He will make small steps till the elections..I mean Modi agreed to let the foreign ministers talk at the UN..looks like the hawks got to the PM first..

 

[MenInG]

It is not in Pakistan’s interest to allow anyone to use our soil for terrorism, Prime Minister Imran Khan said on Thursday, a day after he underscored unanimity within the country’s civilian and military leadership for better ties with India at the Kartarpur corridor event.

Khan, who spoke to a group of visiting Indian journalists at the Prime Minister’s office, said Pakistan could only try.

“We can try but the rest is up to India. What else can we do,” Imran Khan, who completes 100 days of his government today, said.

India has refused to resume talks with Pakistan, demanding that its neighbour first stop sponsoring terrorism in India. Foreign minister Sushma Swaraj had this week made it clear that India’s participation at a possible SAARC Summit in Islamabad would also depend on Pakistan’s approach towards terror and the Kartarpur corridor gesture wasn’t enough to resume bilateral dialogue.

In the past, Islamabad has suggested that India’s reluctance on resumption of dialogue was dictated the ruling BJP-led national coalition’s political compulsions ahead of next year’s general elections.

Imran Khan alluded to this perception on Thursday as well. Pakistan, he said, is willing to wait till after the Indian elections for any gesture from Delhi for resumption of bilateral relations.

Asked about the action taken by Islamabad against 26/11 Mumbai attacks mastermind Hafiz Saeed, Prime Minister Khan said there were United Nations sanctions against his group.

“There is a clampdown on him,” he said. As for the Mumbai terror attacks case, PM Khan said the case is in court and the matter is sub judice”.

Imran Khan said people in Pakistan want peace with India.

“The mindset of people here has changed,” Khan said, according to news agency PTI.

Imran Khan said he had spoken to Prime Minister Narendra Modi earlier and I would be happy to talk to him anytime. He remembers his first conversation with him as a “very good conversation”.

At his Kartarpur corridor event speech, Imran Khan had stressed that a “determined leadership” is needed in both countries to settle the Kashmir issue. The reference to Kashmir had riled New Delhi that hit back, condemning Khan’s effort to politicise “a pious occasion” with his mention of Kashmir.

Imran Khan said India needs to look at Kashmir differently and not as a territorial issue. Military solution and the use of force hasn’t worked in Kashmir, Khan said, adding that If nothing else, “we want the government of India to do something for the people of Kashmir”.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...-imran-khan/story-ryEb8U1E39bUGkbRcdbtyN.html

 

[Canford Cliffs]

True but I believe they have already started small steps. e.g. the kartarpur interaction, Sidhu arriving etc. I think Modi has a bit of a problem with his hawks. I think he is pragmatic and will not want to be seen to be a "war hawk" when compared to IK. He will make small steps till the elections..I mean Modi agreed to let the foreign ministers talk at the UN..looks like the hawks got to the PM first..

Another one of your post without knowledge. Go and watch Modi jis speech in Kozikode on Oct 2016. There is nothing different or new that Imran Khan is saying now. Modiji has extended hand for peace plenty of timee before. He has invited youths of both nation to fight against poverty and corruption. If possible, just watch that video in youtube.

 

[slipcatch]

Another one of your post without knowledge. Go and watch Modi jis speech in Kozikode on Oct 2016. There is nothing different or new that Imran Khan is saying now. Modiji has extended hand for peace plenty of timee before. He has invited youths of both nation to fight against poverty and corruption. If possible, just watch that video in youtube.

Modi Ji?
lol

 

[sshakir411]

India’s policy with Pakistan: “tumhara kutta kutta aur humara kutta Tommy”

 

[ahsan17]

Modi Ji?
lol

Another famous one: Shri Narendra Modi

 

[PakLFC]

If India is prepared to hand over the ones we accuse of terrorism perhaps we will consider their demands. Say what Indians?? Ek haath de, ek haath le

 

[Hitman]

India’s policy with Pakistan: “tumhara kutta kutta aur humara kutta Tommy”

) Genuinely cracked me up.

 

[the Great Khan]

Another one of your post without knowledge. Go and watch Modi jis speech in Kozikode on Oct 2016. There is nothing different or new that Imran Khan is saying now. Modiji has extended hand for peace plenty of timee before. He has invited youths of both nation to fight against poverty and corruption. If possible, just watch that video in youtube.

Modi ji? lol..I think I dont need to say anymore..lol

 

[MenInG]

ISLAMABAD: Information Minister Fawad Chaudhry on Friday said the ongoing human rights violations in Indian-occupied Kashmir serve as an obstacle on the path to normalising relations with India.

Addressing a seminar held here earlier today, Chaudhry called on India to adopt a realistic attitude towards resolving the Kashmir dispute, and said negotiations are the only way forward to achieving a solution to the issue.

“We don’t want [occupied] Kashmir because it is so beautiful and scenic; we don’t view the Kashmir dispute in terms of land. We view the dispute through the lens of humanity. Its residents are a part of us, when they feel pain we feel pain,” he said.

The minister lamented that Pakistan faces Indian-sponsored terrorism because India wants to continue to impose its control in [occupied] Kashmir. “But now the Kashmir narrative has strengthened its stronghold over India,” he pointed out.

Chaudhry said that the ongoing atrocities in Indian-occupied Kashmir make normalising relations with India difficult. “India will need to adopt a realistic attitude towards the dispute. [Some foolish] policymakers in India must think that the Kashmir issue is being driven by Pakistan only. [But the fact is] that Kashmiris have emotions [too] and their struggle is ongoing.”

The minister said it remains in the interests of the region that both India and Pakistan improve their relations with each other.

“Everyone will benefit from peace,” he said.

https://www.geo.tv/latest/220227-at...malising-relations-with-india-difficult-fawad

 

[Tusker]

So who are these people that Imran Wants extradited from India and what are the crimes that they have been accused of ? Are they roaming freely like Dawood ? Anybody know?

 

[cricketjoshila]

So who are these people that Imran Wants extradited from India and what are the crimes that they have been accused of ? Are they roaming freely like Dawood ? Anybody know?

Are they UNSC sanctioned global terrorists?

 

[cricketjoshila]

I hope that the Indian govt stays away from these futile peace tamashas. No need to risk another Kargil or Mumbai.

 

[Tusker]

Are they UNSC sanctioned global terrorists?

Woh tau door ki baat ... lets first see a list of people that Pakistan thinks in its own mind are equally hardened criminals with a rap sheet comparable to Dawood and Co.

 

[JaDed]

Imran has played this political game well, but no one is going to force India anymore due to history so GOI should stay away from it and let things take it's course.
Afraid BJP will give in though knowing their history of trying to go around (hypocrites), Congress is.more believable in this aspect of no additional efforts.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

Woh tau door ki baat ... lets first see a list of people that Pakistan thinks in its own mind are equally hardened criminals with a rap sheet comparable to Dawood and Co.

He never said "list of wanted criminals". The article is misquoting here. He said "Hum dikhasakte hain aik poori list k Bharat ne Pakistan k saath kitna zulm kiya". Basically implying that he wants to move forward and learn from the past rather than dwelling on it and asking for huge gestures to earn India's trust.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Are they UNSC sanctioned global terrorists?

Who are USNC, and why is their verdict in your opinion binding on all nations?

 

[Greenstorm]

Like most of our leaders of the past, Imran Khan has this peace syndrome with India as well. He should understand that they don't want peace, present status quo suites them. We should have some ghairat and should deal with them appropriately. Didn't expected this from Imran Khan .

 

[JaDed]

Like most of our leaders of the past, Imran Khan has this peace syndrome with India as well. He should understand that they don't want peace, present status quo suites them. We should have some ghairat and should deal with them appropriately. Didn't expected this from Imran Khan .

Yeah Shariff is laughing at Vajpayee as you make that comment about peace.

 

[ILcricket]

Does someone has the list & post it here ?

 

[slipcatch]

I hope that the Indian govt stays away from these futile peace tamashas. No need to risk another Kargil or Mumbai.

I hope right wing radicalized hindu nationalists extremists stay away from Indian government for peace to prevail for the minority of India and the region.

 

[jagatk]

I hope right wing radicalized hindu nationalists extremists stay away from Indian government for peace to prevail for the minority of India and the region.

Pakistanis should telling Indians about minorities pot kettle black comes to mind.

Fact is this is usual tamasha, new guy comes in he thinks we can tackle this problem, he fails and we repeat.

Modi came in he tried, he was rewarded with pathankot then we retaliated. MMS tried 26/11 happened same result. I know you will dispute it, but only way India and Pak can be at peace is if Pak have a military dictator ala Musharraf at Helm or some magician for a politician who can control your military. Until that happens there ain't gonna be any peace, just pointless noise from both sides.

 

[Greenstorm]

Yeah Shariff is laughing at Vajpayee as you make that comment about peace.

Yeah you are crying about one Kargil after killing 70000 Pakistanis.

 

[enkidu_]

Immy is clueless here. Just today their army chief, Bipin Rawat, has said that the only way to have "peace" would be if Pakistan becomes "secular". That's their real intentions. Modi is a Hindu nationalist and a former enthusiast RSS member, in his paradigm an Islamic state on so called mythological Akhand Bharat is itself blasphemy (Sidhu recently pointed out that Sardar Patel, for whom a massive statue has been erected, believed in Akhand Bharat), that's the reason there's no point in arguing, nothing has happened in 70 years and nothing will change anytime soon.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Who are USNC, and why is their verdict in your opinion binding on all nations?

For that you must read the UN charter and why UN members are bound to follow the UNSC verdicts passed under certain articles.

 

[JaDed]

Yeah you are crying about one Kargil after killing 70000 Pakistanis.

? Where did you get that number from, and that was massive peace effort from PM of India, although he did try again lol.

 

[Hitman]

? Where did you get that number from, and that was massive peace effort from PM of India, although he did try again lol.

What's hilarious is that Pak blames India for not opting for peace. After what Pak did in 1999 in Kargil, which happened not even 20 years ago. The whole saga is hilarious to make anyone laugh

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

For that you must read the UN charter and why UN members are bound to follow the UNSC verdicts passed under certain articles.

So I am assuming you have read them and are wiling to comply with them universally and without exception above and beyond the interests of India?

 

[Tusker]

He never said "list of wanted criminals". The article is misquoting here. He said "Hum dikhasakte hain aik poori list k Bharat ne Pakistan k saath kitna zulm kiya". Basically implying that he wants to move forward and learn from the past rather than dwelling on it and asking for huge gestures to earn India's trust.

The reasons why India asks Pakistan to take the first step is because it simply does not trust the Military hawks that run Pakistan. Despite being Militarily at a disadvantage compared to India, Pakistan has initiated three wars against India. So if Imran has no such list of people that he wants from India then it should be very easy for him to turn over these crooks that are recognized as terrorists by no less a authority than UN and Interpol.

What seems to be the problem ?

 

[waqar goraya]

As usual holier than thou attitude from Indians in this thread.

If there was a Mumbai then there is a Kulbhushan.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

The reasons why India asks Pakistan to take the first step is because it simply does not trust the Military hawks that run Pakistan. Despite being Militarily at a disadvantage compared to India, Pakistan has initiated three wars against India. So if Imran has no such list of people that he wants from India then it should be very easy for him to turn over these crooks that are recognized as terrorists by no less a authority than UN and Interpol.

What seems to be the problem ?

Contrary to the popular opinion, the military doesn't run Pakistan. It just has its fair share of say in foreign affairs which is justified because civilians haven't done crap to show any level of competency in it.

Since when did Pakistan initiate 1971 war? India trained Mukti Bahini under the farce of a "humanitarian help for the Bengali struggle for independence".

You arm, train and support rebels to cause havoc in Balochistan and expect us to handover "crooks" who have caused you problems? You do realise how ridiculous that sounds right.

On one hand Modi declares support for the BLA and BRA and on the other you want us to handover our citizens to you? Why? Where's the justice in that?

Stop your interventions in Balochistan and the progress of Gwadar and stop obsessing over CPEC.

What's the problem in that?

This "holier than thou" attitude from that cringeworthy woman Sushma and others is pathetic and consistent refusal for dialogue shows that you have ZERO interest in peace.

Your army needs skirmishes with Pakistan to justify their budget and need for weaponry.
Us, on the other hand, have the Afghan border and Taliban to take care of and to eliminate terrorism in the country which justifies our army's budget.

 

[MenInG]

The Foreign Office on Saturday expressed its disappointment at the "relentless negative propaganda campaign" being "waged by a section of the Indian media against Pakistan" on the Kartarpur Corridor Initiative.

Prime Minister Imran Khan on Wednesday performed the groundbreaking of the long-awaited corridor connecting Gurdwara Darbar Sahib in Kartarpur area of Narowal district to Dera Baba Nanak in India’s Gurdaspur district.

Read: 'A positive step' — What major Indian publications are saying about the Kartarpur corridor opening

The ceremony held to mark the historic event and the speeches delivered there had come under severe criticism in certain sections of the Indian media — much to the "dismay" of the FO.

"We have received overwhelmingly positive response from the Sikh community — not only in India and Pakistan but also from across the globe," the FO said in a statement.

"The Government and people of Pakistan fully share their joy on this historic breakthrough and solemnly affirm that they will make every possible contribution to a befitting celebration of the auspicious occasion of Baba Guru Nanak's 550th birth anniversary in 2019."

The FO affirmed that it will not be deterred by unwarranted criticism from across the border.

"We are convinced that those seeking to sow negativity around this initiative for partisan purposes or due to their known anti-Pakistan proclivities will not succeed in their designs," it said.

"The Government of Pakistan will continue to do what is right for advancing this noble initiative. We also look forward to working out necessary details and modalities with the Indian side concerning the passage through the Corridor."

The Foreign Office hailed the event as "another moment of hope for the peoples of India and Pakistan" and hoped that "every effort would be made to preserve and take forward the Kartarpur Spirit".

https://www.dawn.com/news/1448797/n...indian-media-on-kartarpur-corridor-dismays-fo

 

[cricketjoshila]

So I am assuming you have read them and are wiling to comply with them universally and without exception above and beyond the interests of India?

The binding resolutions of UNSC have to be complied with.

 

[ILcricket]

As usual holier than thou attitude from Indians in this thread.

If there was a Mumbai then there is a Kulbhushan.

equating 26/11 with Kulbhushan are we ?

 

[Gabbar Singh]

So who are these people that Imran Wants extradited from India and what are the crimes that they have been accused of ? Are they roaming freely like Dawood ? Anybody know?

Advani was on that list a few years ago.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...st-wanted-in-Pakistan/articleshow/1127759.cms

 

[PakLFC]

equating 26/11 with Kulbhushan are we ?

I agree with you. 26/11 should be compared with the Samjhauta Express carnage that India continues to ignore.

 

[ILcricket]

I agree with you. 26/11 should be compared with the Samjhauta Express carnage that India continues to ignore.

Did any of these take place in Pakistan ?

 

[PakLFC]

Did any of these take place in Pakistan ?

Pakistanis killed in India means India is even more responsible for that. Does not matter where it happened.

 

[ILcricket]

Pakistanis killed in India means India is even more responsible for that. Does not matter where it happened.

i see , what is your position about American drones killing Pakistanis in Pakistan ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The binding resolutions of UNSC have to be complied with.

You didn't answer the question, would India comply with them if they went against their interests?

 

[cricketjoshila]

You didn't answer the question, would India comply with them if they went against their interests?

Certain resolutions of UNSC are binding in nature and members have to abide by it. India too has to do it.

 

[Tusker]

Contrary to the popular opinion, the military doesn't run Pakistan. It just has its fair share of say in foreign affairs which is justified because civilians haven't done crap to show any level of competency in it.

If you think the military doesnt have a say in important matters in Pakistan then there can be no serious discussion that can be had with you. Military Generals have officially ruled the country for decades.

Since when did Pakistan initiate 1971 war? India trained Mukti Bahini under the farce of a "humanitarian help for the Bengali struggle for independence".

If your army wouldn't engage in mass murder of civilians in Bangladesh then there would be no 1971 war right ? And you are forgetting 1948, 1965, 1999 wars. So why dont you tell us why India should just simply forget these events ?

You arm, train and support rebels to cause havoc in Balochistan and expect us to handover "crooks" who have caused you problems? You do realise how ridiculous that sounds right.

On one hand Modi declares support for the BLA and BRA and on the other you want us to handover our citizens to you? Why? Where's the justice in that?

Stop your interventions in Balochistan and the progress of Gwadar and stop obsessing over CPEC.

What's the problem in that?

This "holier than thou" attitude from that cringeworthy woman Sushma and others is pathetic and consistent refusal for dialogue shows that you have ZERO interest in peace.

What came first Pakistan involving in Kashmir/Punjab or India involving in Balochistan ? So if you really want to move on lets start with the party that has a long well known history of being a hawk. Heck we did even try this route of lets forget the past. Remember 1999 and Vajpayee's visits? Remember all the Cricket tours in the last decade despite Kargil and parliament attacks in 2001 ? Why don't you tell us how that worked out? We came out looking like proper naive fools for taking the words of a "Elected" leader didnt we ?

Your army needs skirmishes with Pakistan to justify their budget and need for weaponry.
Us, on the other hand, have the Afghan border and Taliban to take care of and to eliminate terrorism in the country which justifies our army's budget.

The army simply does not have as much prominence in India as you would like to think is the case.

 

[gazza619]

If you think the military doesnt have a say in important matters in Pakistan then there can be no serious discussion that can be had with you. Military Generals have officially ruled the country for decades.




If your army wouldn't engage in mass murder of civilians in Bangladesh then there would be no 1971 war right ? And you are forgetting 1948, 1965, 1999 wars. So why dont you tell us why India should just simply forget these events ?




What came first Pakistan involving in Kashmir/Punjab or India involving in Balochistan ? So if you really want to move on lets start with the party that has a long well known history of being a hawk. Heck we did even try this route of lets forget the past. Remember 1999 and Vajpayee's visits? Remember all the Cricket tours in the last decade despite Kargil and parliament attacks in 2001 ? Why don't you tell us how that worked out? We came out looking like proper naive fools for taking the words of a "Elected" leader didnt we ?



The army simply does not have as much prominence in India as you would like to think is the case.

I take your points on board. Though I do not agree with all of them but one thing is for sure, mistakes have been made on both sides in the past. The Army has a major say in Pakistan and that is only thing which has ensured the country is still alive. Yes we have had our share of bad army generals.

But lets give the peace talk one more chance. I am not sure how closely you follow the news in Pakistan but steps have been taken by Imran’s goverment which you couldnt even dream of. Popular religious leaders arrested for instigating hatred and extremism, many illegal constructions being demolished, Corrupts are facing enquires. Army, Goverment and Supreme Court are all on the same page.

I say we need to try with all honesty one more time on both sides.

 

[Tusker]

I take your points on board. Though I do not agree with all of them but one thing is for sure, mistakes have been made on both sides in the past. The Army has a major say in Pakistan and that is only thing which has ensured the country is still alive. Yes we have had our share of bad army generals.

I wouldnt call the current state of Pak existence as being alive ...

But lets give the peace talk one more chance. I am not sure how closely you follow the news in Pakistan but steps have been taken by Imran’s goverment which you couldnt even dream of. Popular religious leaders arrested for instigating hatred and extremism, many illegal constructions being demolished, Corrupts are facing enquires. Army, Goverment and Supreme Court are all on the same page.

I say we need to try with all honesty one more time on both sides.

India is run by very seasoned politicians ... they know better than to believe that Imran will one day sideline the Military and truly run the country independently like they do in India. These things rarely happen in real life. Hence the cautious wait and watch approach.

 

[gazza619]

I wouldnt call the current state of Pak existence as being alive ...
.

Unfortunately that is called arrogance and believing in the hype created by your beloved media.

 

[waqar goraya]

equating 26/11 with Kulbhushan are we ?

It is just one example that i gave to indicate that India has tried its own ways to hurt Pakistan. Kulbhushan was helping a diverse group of militants, separatists and terrorists.

Then there is India's direct participation in dismemberment of Pakistan which they are still trying to achieve in Balochistan.

The other poster has also mentioned Samjhota Express where majority of Pakistanis were killed and those culprits have not been punished either.

 

[Tusker]

Unfortunately that is called arrogance and believing in the hype created by your beloved media.

I dont even read Indian Media ... as I dont live there. I formed those opinions based on reputed world media ( CNN, NY Times , Reuters etc ). Examples are ... the way US treats Pakistan ( Drone strikes, FATF, UN Pressure ) , the way OBL lived freely in Pakistan, the way people like Dawood and Hafiz have operated for decades , the way Taliban and plenty of other rogue warlord groups operate in Pakistan killing your own people all tell a sad story of a country that was ruined by Military rulers.

Truth is almost always bitter ... no arrogance on my part to tell it as it is. The problem is the naive thinking that military is good for Pakistan. Any good that they did far outweighs the negatives.

 

[waqar goraya]

US is itself responsible for a large part of mess that we see in the world. US has over the centuries and decades occupied and annexed territories , it has armed and supported fascists, dictators and terrorists over time, it has used weapons of mass destruction in terms of atomic bombs in Japan, cluster bombs in Vietnam, it has engaged itself in genocide in places such as Vietnam, Philippines and supported regimes who were engaged in genocide in places such as Chile , Israel.

So, stop considering US a bacon of human race and judging other countries from its behavior that how it treats other countries.

 

[waqar goraya]

And i did not intend to mention Taliban and ISIS phenomenon as it is quite obvious for any one whose information does not rely on Indian or US state propaganda.

 

[waqar goraya]

The OP is misleading, I listened to his words and he was referring to the list of complains that both countries had whenever there was any engagement. He was not alluding to demand of any persons.

Hindustan Times has misreported the essence of his words.

 

[Tusker]

[MENTION=131470]gazza619[/MENTION] ... maybe if it is told by one of your own people you might believe it more : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdm2pfcGxzw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YLuNQOcetY

 

[Tusker]

Another good interview with Hussain Haqqani: https://youtu.be/t_OsGCCnKro?t=1120

 

[gazza619]

I dont even read Indian Media ... as I dont live there. I formed those opinions based on reputed world media ( CNN, NY Times , Reuters etc ). Examples are ... the way US treats Pakistan ( Drone strikes, FATF, UN Pressure ) , the way OBL lived freely in Pakistan, the way people like Dawood and Hafiz have operated for decades , the way Taliban and plenty of other rogue warlord groups operate in Pakistan killing your own people all tell a sad story of a country that was ruined by Military rulers.

Truth is almost always bitter ... no arrogance on my part to tell it as it is. The problem is the naive thinking that military is good for Pakistan. Any good that they did far outweighs the negatives.

The killings in Pakistan are master minded by foreign elements (Afghan/Indian agencies). India has openly admitted that.

You think everything is working fine in India? What have they done to control Hindu extremists? Women security? Child labour? Rape? Sanitation? Poverty? Corruption? Voilence against Muslims? Racism? Pollution? The list goes on..

I suggest you occassionsly tune into Indian media and face the bitter truth yourself.

 

[Tusker]

The killings in Pakistan are master minded by foreign elements (Afghan/Indian agencies). India has openly admitted that.

Watch this excellent video for how Pakistani population is mislead by conspiracy theories. Its a big clip but atleast watch the last 10-15 mins --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qezdk-uEhm8

You think everything is working fine in India? What have they done to control Hindu extremists? Women security? Child labour? Rape? Sanitation? Poverty? Corruption? Voilence against Muslims? Racism? Pollution? The list goes on..

I suggest you occasionally tune into Indian media and face the bitter truth yourself.

I never said India did not have problems. But I can assure you that it certainly does not have the problem of Military running the country. Not one single General ruled India in the last 70 yrs. Not One ! That right there is a big difference.

 

[gazza619]

[MENTION=131470]gazza619[/MENTION] ... maybe if it is told by one of your own people you might believe it more : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdm2pfcGxzw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YLuNQOcetY

Another good interview with Hussain Haqqani: https://youtu.be/t_OsGCCnKro?t=1120

Watch this excellent video for how Pakistani population is mislead by conspiracy theories. Its a big clip but atleast watch the last 10-15 mins --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qezdk-uEhm8



.

You have quoted 4 videos. Do you seriously think I have time to watch these? Is this the best way to have a healthy debate? I suggest you watch those videos and then write up the flux of it in a post in this thread. Or write it in your own words as most people do.

Thats how discussions should be done.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Certain resolutions of UNSC are binding in nature and members have to abide by it. India too has to do it.

If they are binding, then I imagine that Pakistan has to comply as well.

 

[Tusker]

[MENTION=131470]gazza619[/MENTION] ... maybe if it is told by one of your own people you might believe it more : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qdm2pfcGxzw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YLuNQOcetY

These 2 videos are very short the first one deals with how conspiracy theories flourish in Pakistan. The 2nd one is about how ISI controls everything, including spying on its own Ambassadors.

You have quoted 4 videos. Do you seriously think I have time to watch these? Is this the best way to have a healthy debate? I suggest you watch those videos and then write up the flux of it in a post in this thread. Or write it in your own words as most people do.

Thats how discussions should be done.

Here is another interview with Husain Haqqani:

https://signup.politics.uchicago.edu/page/-/site/PODCAST/transcripts/af-ep18-haqqani.pdf

One damning tidbit: The US launched Cruise Missiles aimed at Bin Laden's hide out back in the 90s and informed the Pakistani Army Chief just few hours before the strikes and guess what Bin-Laden escaped. The damning bit is that this continued EVEN After he was killed in 2011. They gave information about a Terrorist camp and informed Gen. Kayani about the location and the time when it was going to be taken out. They also setup a surveillance using drones and sure enough 20 mins before the attack someone came in a bike and informed and in mins they packed up and left. Its on Pg 8-9

 

[ILcricket]

It is just one example that i gave to indicate that India has tried its own ways to hurt Pakistan. Kulbhushan was helping a diverse group of militants, separatists and terrorists.

Then there is India's direct participation in dismemberment of Pakistan which they are still trying to achieve in Balochistan.

The other poster has also mentioned Samjhota Express where majority of Pakistanis were killed and those culprits have not been punished either.

Are you talking about 1971 & overlooking your continuous involvement in J & K & sporadically in Punjab ?

 

[sjahmed23]

India is never going to help Pakistan when it's down. In fact they are busy taking victory lap because they believe their policy of 'isolation' is actually working and harming Pakistan's economy. There needs to be decisive reforms and economic resurgence for Pakistan to even get back on the table and make any demands, otherwise forget it and keep getting bullied.

 

[ILcricket]

India is never going to help Pakistan when it's down. In fact they are busy taking victory lap because they believe their policy of 'isolation' is actually working and harming Pakistan's economy. There needs to be decisive reforms and economic resurgence for Pakistan to even get back on the table and make any demands, otherwise forget it and keep getting bullied.

Are you convinced Pakistan is the dove since 1947 ?

 

[PakLFC]

i see , what is your position about American drones killing Pakistanis in Pakistan ?

Pak is at fault or should I say the government at the time for allowing that to happen. India's position is Pakistanis killed in Pak or India is Pak's fault! Indians killed in India or Pak is Pak's fault is well can not be accepted.

 

[Hadi Rizvi]

If you think the military doesnt have a say in important matters in Pakistan then there can be no serious discussion that can be had with you. Military Generals have officially ruled the country for decades.




If your army wouldn't engage in mass murder of civilians in Bangladesh then there would be no 1971 war right ? And you are forgetting 1948, 1965, 1999 wars. So why dont you tell us why India should just simply forget these events ?




What came first Pakistan involving in Kashmir/Punjab or India involving in Balochistan ? So if you really want to move on lets start with the party that has a long well known history of being a hawk. Heck we did even try this route of lets forget the past. Remember 1999 and Vajpayee's visits? Remember all the Cricket tours in the last decade despite Kargil and parliament attacks in 2001 ? Why don't you tell us how that worked out? We came out looking like proper naive fools for taking the words of a "Elected" leader didnt we ?



The army simply does not have as much prominence in India as you would like to think is the case.

There is a huuuge difference between the running the country and having a say in important affairs. When did I ever say we haven't been ruled by the army in our history? In fact, I'm a fan of Gen. Ayub Khan's era as it was during this era that Pakistan progressed like never before and we haven't seen a similar level of progress since.

Our army can do whatever it wants with its civilians. Who is India to interfere in this personal matter??? And just stop assuming things alright? When did I say PAK didn't initiate war in 1948, 1965 and 1999? Ofcourse, how can you forget 1965 and 1999, when, despite being much superior in numbers and equipment, IND found its equal in military strength.

Kashmir is disputed territory (have a look at an atlas, will ya?) therefore any interference there is not an interference in personal matters. Balochistan, on the other hand, has nothing to do with India, so any interference there is fundamentally wrong and has no justifications.

If the army doesn't have as much prominence in India, then why does that birthday cap wearing creature Bipin Rawat go around giving out political statements on foreign affairs and direct threats to PAK?

 

[PakLFC]

i see , what is your position about American drones killing Pakistanis in Pakistan ?

India in that case is in no position to complain about Yadav being nabbed. He was an Indian RAW terrorist caught in Pak. If you now insist he was caught in Iran by the ISI then why has India not taken up the issue with the Iranians?

 

[Tusker]

There is a huuuge difference between the running the country and having a say in important affairs. When did I ever say we haven't been ruled by the army in our history? In fact, I'm a fan of Gen. Ayub Khan's era as it was during this era that Pakistan progressed like never before and we haven't seen a similar level of progress since.

your exact words were " Contrary to popular opinion Army doesnt run Pakistan" - It is just not true at all. Go thru the numerous links I posted in this thread if you need evidence. this is why America deals directly with the ISI and Army generals and not with the civilian govt officials. There is no point in discussing this without

Our army can do whatever it wants with its civilians. Who is India to interfere in this personal matter??? And just stop assuming things alright? When did I say PAK didn't initiate war in 1948, 1965 and 1999? Ofcourse, how can you forget 1965 and 1999, when, despite being much superior in numbers and equipment, IND found its equal in military strength.

No your army cannot do anything with your civilians. Lookup Geneva conventions on human rights violations. India is applauded for its actions in 1971.

So you are going to keep initiating wars unprovoked and India must still believe Pakistan is a honest well-mannered decent neighbor and keep initiating peace talks ? This is your logic ? This is how things work wherever you live ?

Does it occur to you that in 1965 Indian Army went into outskirts of Lahore ? How did that "equal military strength" work out in 1971 BTW ?

See this is the reason why there can be no peace with a hawk. When even well educated people still go jingoistic then just imagine what people in power are like.

Kashmir is disputed territory (have a look at an atlas, will ya?) therefore any interference there is not an interference in personal matters. Balochistan, on the other hand, has nothing to do with India, so any interference there is fundamentally wrong and has no justifications.

If the army doesn't have as much prominence in India, then why does that birthday cap wearing creature Bipin Rawat go around giving out political statements on foreign affairs and direct threats to PAK?

Is Punjab also a disputed territory ? Isnt PoK also a disputed territory ? Does India send rogue militants to create trouble there in PoK ? Have some sense if you want to have a decent discussion.

I can assure you that whatever the Military leaders say in Public is cleared by the Ministry of defense in India. In India the PA of Defence Ministry have more power than military generals. IT is evident in how all world powers when they deal with India deal with its Govt officials and not the military.

 

[Gabbar Singh]

In an ideal world it would be nice if Pakistan and India improve relations however can't see it happening anytime soon. That said, can't see outright war taking place either.

The most likely road-map to better relations is if both nations can become economic powers who can then trade and invest in each other's country. Once you have billions of $s tied up in each others economies ties will naturally improve just like the Europeans post world war II, the US and China post cold war and to a lesser degree even China and India since the early to mid 2000s.

Trade is the solution to this problem.

 

[slipcatch]

In an ideal world it would be nice if Pakistan and India improve relations however can't see it happening anytime soon. That said, can't see outright war taking place either.

The most likely road-map to better relations is if both nations can become economic powers who can then trade and invest in each other's country. Once you have billions of $s tied up in each others economies ties will naturally improve just like the Europeans post world war II, the US and China post cold war and to a lesser degree even China and India since the early to mid 2000s.

Trade is the solution to this problem.

That would work with other countries but not between Pakistan and India.

India is diving fast into extremists nationalists Hinduism and for that to continue they will always need a boogie man.

Other excuses like Pakistani army and government etc is just an excuse and way to look threatening against boogie man for the nationalists extremists Hindus.

 

[slipcatch]

your exact words were " Contrary to popular opinion Army doesnt run Pakistan" - It is just not true at all. Go thru the numerous links I posted in this thread if you need evidence. this is why America deals directly with the ISI and Army generals and not with the civilian govt officials. There is no point in discussing this without



No your army cannot do anything with your civilians. Lookup Geneva conventions on human rights violations. India is applauded for its actions in 1971.

So you are going to keep initiating wars unprovoked and India must still believe Pakistan is a honest well-mannered decent neighbor and keep initiating peace talks ? This is your logic ? This is how things work wherever you live ?

Does it occur to you that in 1965 Indian Army went into outskirts of Lahore ? How did that "equal military strength" work out in 1971 BTW ?

See this is the reason why there can be no peace with a hawk. When even well educated people still go jingoistic then just imagine what people in power are like.




Is Punjab also a disputed territory ? Isnt PoK also a disputed territory ? Does India send rogue militants to create trouble there in PoK ? Have some sense if you want to have a decent discussion.

I can assure you that whatever the Military leaders say in Public is cleared by the Ministry of defense in India. In India the PA of Defence Ministry have more power than military generals. IT is evident in how all world powers when they deal with India deal with its Govt officials and not the military.

All you have presented is excuse to not have peace.

You are right how can there be peace when there is a exponential rise jignostic extremists nationalists educated Hindus.

 

[Tusker]

All you have presented is excuse to not have peace.

You are right how can there be peace when there is a exponential rise jignostic extremists nationalists educated Hindus.

You are back again with your usual nonsense? How about acting like a grown up and point to the supposedly extremist posts that you claim I have made?

And do you understand the difference between excuse and reality?

 

[slipcatch]

You are back again with your usual nonsense? How about acting like a grown up and point to the supposedly extremist posts that you claim I have made?

And do you understand the difference between excuse and reality?

Reality is that extremists have hijacked Indian politics and army and that can’t happen in India unless there is huge population who believe in their extremists nationalists Hinduism.

All you have done is presented excuses to support nationalists Hindu party narrative to not have peace.


Like I’ve said, you know who you are. You don’t need my help to point that out.

 

[Tusker]

Reality is that extremists have hijacked Indian politics and army and that can’t happen in India unless there is huge population who believe in their extremists nationalists Hinduism.

All you have done is presented excuses to support nationalists Hindu party narrative to not have peace.

Can you name some of the extremist activities of BJP that are comparable to Taliban ?

Like I’ve said, you know who you are. You don’t need my help to point that out.

In other words you came up with a big fat andaa. But since the forum allows you to yak away you will keep doing that. Typical gutless troll.

 

[waqar goraya]

Are you talking about 1971 & overlooking your continuous involvement in J & K & sporadically in Punjab ?

That's why i mentioned Kulbhushan, a very recent example of Indian interference inside Pakistan.

 

[Tusker]

That's why i mentioned Kulbhushan, a very recent example of Indian interference inside Pakistan.

What came first? Pak meddling in India or India meddling in Pak affairs? Also who initiated most of the wars ?

 

[slipcatch]

Can you name some of the extremist activities of BJP that are comparable to Taliban ?

Lol, Taliban are in Afghanistan. And how extreme is okay? lol


In other words you came up with a big fat andaa. But since the forum allows you to yak away you will keep doing that. Typical gutless troll.

Gutless? I am not going to search the forum where you openly support and justify minority should be subservient to majority of Hindus in India and lay the blame on minority ( particularly Muslims) for the way they get treated by radicalized extremists nationalists hindus. But you know who you are, so let's not get upset over that.

Enjoy

 

[slipcatch]

What came first? Pak meddling in India or India meddling in Pak affairs? Also who initiated most of the wars ?

Hahaha. man oh man.

why does it matter what came first, every country and everyone has history.

Little man got rich, now he think he has power, so he can run his mouth the way he want, and wants everything his way, will find any excuse to keep himself relevant, and would give most ridiculous excuse to justify for every ridiculous step he would take because he knows he can get away with it.

Right wing religious extremists nationalists hindu can't afford to have peace with Pakistan, they need a boogie man to stay relevant and in power. As long as Indian government and Army is occupied with religious nationalists Hindu extremists then peace can't be achieved, at least, not before India's next election.

 

[enkidu_]

What came first? Pak meddling in India or India meddling in Pak affairs? Also who initiated most of the wars ?

India meddled in Pak affairs first, in '1971. Pakistan has meddled in Kashmir, which is legitimate from its own pov (disputed territory and in fact the '48 war was made possible because many of the soldiers in Pak were from Azaad Kashmir), it has never helped Naxalites or whatnot. As for helping the Khalistan movement it was as a response to '71 that Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto decided to go for it, and that ISI fueled the movement before Benazir Bhutto helps Rajiv Gandhi to curb it in the late 80s.

And yeah India is a holy cow of peace, never meddle anywhere, not in the only other Hindu majority nation's constitutional matters even less, through RAW, by contributing to a bloody civil war in Sri Lanka (+100 000 deaths/nearly 1 million displaced) by helping/arming/training Tamil militant groups.

 

[slipcatch]

Excuses given by some Indians and Indian government for not wanting peace probably the most desperate and ridiculous.

I wouldn't be surprise if Indian government were to give an excuse for not trying to achieve peace because Afridi and Guatam had fought on cricket field.

 

[waqar goraya]

What came first? Pak meddling in India or India meddling in Pak affairs? Also who initiated most of the wars ?

Now, that you have accepted Indian interference in Pakistan, you are shifting the discussion to the question who did it first.
This is exactly what Imran alluded to during that talk ; "blame game". This is how things go - you did this, you did that, you did more despicable , but you were more savage, you started it , no you started it. Lets talk Kashmir first, no lets talk Mumbai first, before that you need to punish Samjhota Express perpetrators, no you should have completed Mumbai trial by now, you are supporting Kashmir separatists, no you are supporting Baloch separatists and TTP. The list goes on and on, till we reach the massacres in Punjab during partition.

 

[Tusker]

Lol, Taliban are in Afghanistan. And how extreme is okay? lol

Genius they are in Pakistan also and operate quite freely under different names. Mullah Omar lived in Pakistan and ran operations from there until he was taken out by America. It is an open secret that they had protection from ISI.

Gutless? I am not going to search the forum where you openly support and justify minority should be subservient to majority of Hindus in India and lay the blame on minority ( particularly Muslims) for the way they get treated by radicalized extremists nationalists hindus. But you know who you are, so let's not get upset over that.

So using this great logic Iam then going to call you a Taliban operative - Ohh and I almost forgot the punch line - You know who you are !! Two can easily play this game. )