"We have enough on our plates without having to worry about Salman Butt" : Mickey Arthur

[MenInG]

Mickey Arthur speaking on day 1 of the camp for West Indies tour:

Talking about the emerging players' camp:

"It was great to see (recently) our reserve strength; these are guys who have performed well in our domestic competitions"

"We can now put a face to the names and we have taken a lot of notes about them and know exactly how well they can perform"

"There was some nice talent there which was pleasing to see"

"We will keep on inviting these guys in he future; we have taken 5 guys from the emerging camp and put them in the main camp"

"These players we feel could make a significant difference to our team"

"This is an incentive to the young guys to keep performing all the time"

"That is very disappointing to us (the PSL Corruption scandal) and the PCB is taking care of that"

"We have some work to do with the fitness issues with the emerging players"

"We went through all the fitness tests and we are a little bit off the pace"

"For us now its about changing the culture and it (fitness) will become a criteria for selection"

About the seniors camp :

"As you will see around here, lots of young players in the camp"

"We certainly did take cognizance of how the players played in the PSL and a lot of guys impressed us during that time; a lot of those players are in the camp"

"It is important for Inzamam-ul-Haq and myself to plot the way forward for the 2019 World Cup without chopping and changing too much"

"We are very confident about our trip to the West Indies as conditions will be similar to what we are used to; it will be spin conducive"

"Conditions in England for the CT2017 will be different but we will have a squad which can handle those conditions well without a doubt"

"Performances are relative; if you look at our younger players, you will see that their performances have been improving"

"We just need to create a culture which is based on performance and that is something which was lacking before now"

"We have an under 23 event in Bangladesh and we will see another opportunity to see those players down the line"

"There is a massive jump between domestic and international cricket and it is up to us to sift through these players to see who can make it to the international level"

"In our conditions we are very good but outside, in ODIs, its a challenge for us"

"Azhar was a good captain but we thought we needed to go to a new direction which Sarfraz enjoys playing"

"We will have a practice game with 2 squads on the 15th and then announce the squad that will go to the West Indies"

"No player in this camp is certain of his position and that is great place for us to be"

"We go by the policy of the PCB and we have enough on our plates without having to worry about Salman Butt or anyone else like that"

 

[Hawkeye]

Sone paid journo of Butt would've asked this question. He has too many supporters in the media. Don't want this mediocrity again.

Anyway, like I said earlier, Mickey isn't going to bring about any big change in the ODI team. The same 80s class batsmen are going to play in the ODI outfit.

HERE'S what he said:

"It is important for Inzamam-ul-Haq and myself to plot the way forward for the 2019 World Cup without chopping and changing too much.

 

[wrongun]

Hmm in OZ we understand that saying not to mean "No-one is going to be dropped", but "the changes we make will have to be well thought out as to who to leave out & who to bring in so we get the decision right, instead of picking & dropping guys every few games".

 

[Markhor]

Excellent comments. Good to hear 5 players from the emerging camp are now in the senior camp.

Also encouraging to read the top domestic performers have now been thoroughly assessed by Arthur and the coaches.

And the comments on Salman Butt are spot on, bad day for his cheerleaders.

 

[srh]

Mickey wants to take Pakistan cricket forward but Inzi is not helping much when he go backward and select Kamran Akmal

 

[Hawkeye]

Mickey wants to take Pakistan cricket forward but Inzi is not helping much when he go backward and select Kamran Akmal

What's your hate with Kami?

Also, stop being delusional. In the Inzi era, every selection is consulted by the coach and the captain. It's not like the previous ones, where coach/captain were not involved in selection.

 

[ammar_merry]

five players are Asif zakir, saad ali,hussain talat,amad butt,fahim ashraf

 

[Hawkeye]

five players are Asif zakir, saad ali,hussain talat,amad butt,fahim ashraf

They are decent names. I've read some people hype Saad Ali (without watching him), the same way Fakhar Zaman was hyped until we all saw him live.

Amad struggles TO properly hold a bat.

But maybe they can be worked on.

Talat is a definite good potential guy though.

 

[Syed1]

Wait a minute wasn't​ Saad Ali already a part of the main camp?

 

[srh]

What's your hate with Kami?

Also, stop being delusional. In the Inzi era, every selection is consulted by the coach and the captain. It's not like the previous ones, where coach/captain were not involved in selection.

this is like chor ulta kotowal ko dantay.

Everybody who has the best interest of Pakistan cricket in his/her heart will agree that selecting Kami is a huge step backward and easily the worst decision Inzi has made as the chief selector. And I know that you also dont agree with Pakistan going backward in this case.

 

[asma_cricfan]

You forgot Umar Akmal and Hafeez. He is just like what in Karachi lingo " moonh Ke commando". He and inzi's are just talking guns as when the selection came up, all their talks blow out in air.

 

[Rayyman]

Mickey wants to take Pakistan cricket forward but Inzi is not helping much when he go backward and select Kamran Akmal

You forgot his brother- Umar, Hafeez, Malik and Wahab too.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

MA will have his tenure assessed after the CT2017. If he fails to impress the board by not improving the ODI rankings. He might well be unsuccessful and lose the job.

 

[Speedster777]

Mickey is all talk no real action to move forward.

 

[Speedster777]

What preparation for 2019 WC ? With proven TTfs like Hafeez, Akmal, Sohail, Azhar, Malik, Wahab all these guys have led us to defeat in every world cup now he's taking the same TTFs for 2019 WC. Mickey is a total liar.

 

[Hawkeye]

What preparation for 2019 WC ? With proven TTfs like Hafeez, Akmal, Sohail, Azhar, Malik, Wahab all these guys have led us to defeat in every world cup now he's taking the same TTFs for 2019 WC. Mickey is a total liar.

The worst are going to be retained and Mickey has made it clear he won't really overhaul the team or kick them out.

 

[shane]

I agree that a lot of Pakistan's senior guys are tried and tested failures, and Kamran Akmal is a good example of that. But I also think that these are the best cricketers in the country. I cannot understand it when people say "We saw a lot of local talent in the PSL". Apart from maybe one player, all I saw from locals was dropped catches and constant batting failures.

 

[Officer Barbrady]

some of these guys have been playing nonstop since the army boot camp in June of last year. A couple of weeks of rest for the likes of Amir/Wahab etc. would have been much better before another long tour rather than another meaningless camp. Mickey should have been pushing to give players more time off.

 

[super hitter]

Mickey needs to be there for as long as possible,

these Pakistani fans have a typical habit of criticising after every bad performance and that mindset of 'bring in young players' despite there average performance and that take out the seniors after 1 bad performance!

 

[Syed1]

Mickey needs to be there for as long as possible,

these Pakistani fans have a typical habit of criticising after every bad performance and that mindset of 'bring in young players' despite there average performance and that take out the seniors after 1 bad performance!

You can play the likes of Azhar, Hafeez, Akmals and Malik for the next 5 years and you will keep going down and down.

 

[Amirforpresident]

I have the feeling that Mickey is waiting for these TTf's to fail so he can play guys like Talat and Saad Ali.

 

[lonex]

Mickey needs to be there for as long as possible,

these Pakistani fans have a typical habit of criticising after every bad performance and that mindset of 'bring in young players' despite there average performance and that take out the seniors after 1 bad performance!

If seniors were playing well, no one would have asked to chop them from the team. On one side Mickey wants us to move forward, on the other he keeps on selecting the players who are responsible for the state we are in. In youngster one can hope that they can change their game and can be grommed. Same cant be said about the senior team.

We are ranked number 8 for a reason.

 

[Square Drive]

I really hope the Mickey-Inzi combo actually brings about change now. This is probably the best combo we will have in a while.

 

[Amirforpresident]

Guys I read on ESPN that Saad Ali was not selected for the odi/T20 camp is that true? The only batsmen selected were Zaman and Talat.

 

[Junaids]

Excellent comments.
And the comments on Salman Butt are spot on, bad day for his cheerleaders.

What cheerleaders?

I strongly argued for Asif and Butt to play in Australia, then be retired due to their age.

But Pakistan's number 1 problem now is age, not skill. And even I recognise that Asif and Butt would make that worse.

 

[shariqnoor]

What cheerleaders?

I strongly argued for Asif and Butt to play in Australia, then be retired due to their age.

But Pakistan's number 1 problem now is age, not skill. And even I recognise that Asif and Butt would make that worse.

Pakistan's number 1 problem is age, not skill? Really? It's a shame that a 43 year old is hitting the ball miles better than all our current T20 players combined. It's a shame that a 39 year old still outscores Asad Shafiq in virtually every series. Our problem over the last 7-8 years has been skill. Umar Gul was the last fast bowler of any repute who could rip out 5 wickets in no time. How many bowlers (spin or fast) do we have now who can do that? In the last 6 years, we have unearthed only 1 quality batsman in Babar Azam. Just 1 and you still think age is our issue?

 

[Junaids]

Pakistan's number 1 problem is age, not skill? Really? It's a shame that a 43 year old is hitting the ball miles better than all our current T20 players combined. It's a shame that a 39 year old still outscores Asad Shafiq in virtually every series. Our problem over the last 7-8 years has been skill. Umar Gul was the last fast bowler of any repute who could rip out 5 wickets in no time. How many bowlers (spin or fast) do we have now who can do that? In the last 6 years, we have unearthed only 1 quality batsman in Babar Azam. Just 1 and you still think age is our issue?

You are confusing Test cricket - which Misbah and Younis still play - and the lower forms of the game.

Pakistan was ranked Number 2 before they played the 5 Tests in New Zealand and Australia.

Then this happened:

1. Younis Khan scored less than 40 in 8 innings out of 10
2. Misbah-ul-Haq scored less than 40 in 8 innings out of 8.

There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the problem is elderly batsmen who make the team lose.

Remember: Hamilton and Melbourne were almost certain draws and Brisbane was almost a win. The thing that went wrong was the batting. These batsmen.

 

[Hamza_]

You are confusing Test cricket - which Misbah and Younis still play - and the lower forms of the game.

Pakistan was ranked Number 2 before they played the 5 Tests in New Zealand and Australia.

Then this happened:

1. Younis Khan scored less than 40 in 8 innings out of 10
2. Misbah-ul-Haq scored less than 40 in 8 innings out of 8.

There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the problem is elderly batsmen who make the team lose.

Remember: Hamilton and Melbourne were almost certain draws and Brisbane was almost a win. The thing that went wrong was the batting. These batsmen.

Indeed. Oldies have been mere passengers.

 

[shariqnoor]

You are confusing Test cricket - which Misbah and Younis still play - and the lower forms of the game.

Pakistan was ranked Number 2 before they played the 5 Tests in New Zealand and Australia.

Then this happened:

1. Younis Khan scored less than 40 in 8 innings out of 10
2. Misbah-ul-Haq scored less than 40 in 8 innings out of 8.

There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that the problem is elderly batsmen who make the team lose.

Remember: Hamilton and Melbourne were almost certain draws and Brisbane was almost a win. The thing that went wrong was the batting. These batsmen.

Before the 5 Tests in NZ and Australia, Pakistan were ranked number 2. Yes. So all it took were 5 Tests to ignore the 6 years of contribution to the team that Misbah and Younis gave with their heart and soul? 5 Tests to wash away all their good. 5 Tests ago, they were both still 42 and 39 years of age. It's really true that "success has many fathers but failure is an orphan."

And if you really want to highlight age as an issue with Younis and Misbah, then how about this:

Shafiq in his last 12 innings has an average of 24.5 (this includes the hundred and a 50 in Australia).
Babar Azam in his last 12 innings has an average of 27.2
Sami Aslam in his last 12 innings has an average of 26.4

Do you really want to bring age as an issue. It's clear that you have a vendetta against Misbah and Younis. So why don't you just say that instead of always bringing age as an issue against them?

 

[Junaids]

Before the 5 Tests in NZ and Australia, Pakistan were ranked number 2. Yes. So all it took were 5 Tests to ignore the 6 years of contribution to the team that Misbah and Younis gave with their heart and soul? 5 Tests to wash away all their good. 5 Tests ago, they were both still 42 and 39 years of age. It's really true that "success has many fathers but failure is an orphan."

And if you really want to highlight age as an issue with Younis and Misbah, then how about this:

Shafiq in his last 12 innings has an average of 24.5 (this includes the hundred and a 50 in Australia).
Babar Azam in his last 12 innings has an average of 27.2
Sami Aslam in his last 12 innings has an average of 26.4

Do you really want to bring age as an issue. It's clear that you have a vendetta against Misbah and Younis. So why don't you just say that instead of always bringing age as an issue against them?

Babar Azam and Sami Aslam are already performing better than Misbah and they will only improve whereas a 42 year old man will only deteriorate.

I have a vendetta against any pair of numbers 4 and 5 batsmen who pass 40 only twice in 18 innings put together.

But when they are half a decade older than any other player in international cricket, only a fool would keep selecting them.

Australia replaced Adam Voges as soon as age caught up with him, and Peter Handscomb has been a brilliant replacement.

The difference is that Pakistan keep flogging their horses long after they have died.

 

[Hawkeye]

The difference is that Pakistan keep flogging their horses long after they have died.

Umm, don't go defensive now. You've been repeating this old age broken record from a long time, even before the England tour, and have been proven wrong on every occasion.

Voges is no match for both Misbah and Younis - who are Test legends. Voges can't dream of playing clutch knocks like these two have. And of performing anywhere outside Aus.

Still, Misbah is going after winning the West Indies tour. Will be a sad day to lose a legend, he's done wonders for us. But he has to go some day.

You kept repeating your broken record and he brought immense respect for his team everywhere he went.

 

[Junaids]

[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] has been losing it since the time it was proved how clueless his reasonings have been wrt Misbah, in particular.

Used to run a propaganda campaign against the kaptaan before England tour - that how badly his "old age" will be exposed on an overseas tour, after totally humiliating every visiting team in the UAE.

But the oldest age guy turned out to be the man who inspired his whole team to put up a great fight, winning everyone's hearts in England and Australia.

Conveniently forgets Misbah at 43 brought his team to no.1. and after one bad tour, with so many victories before that, he again resorts to his usual rants.

The England tour has obviously left him bitter, probably forever.

Sorry, but no.

Misbah has always been a flat track bully.

1. He averaged 22.50 in South Africa in 2012-13.
2. He averaged 25.33 in Australia in 2009-10.
3. He averaged 12.66 in Australia in 2016-17.

Even in England, he started really well in the absence of Anderson and Stokes, and then got found out, and by the last couple of Tests was no longer coping at all.

We all agree that Salman Butt was a fairly ordinary batsman (just good by Pakistan opening standards).

But the reason why Salman Butt was the skipper in 2010 was because Misbah had just had to be dropped after the SCG Test, because he wasn't a good enough batsman to get into the team.

 

[Hasan123]

Babar Azam and Sami Aslam are already performing better than Misbah and they will only improve whereas a 42 year old man will only deteriorate.

I have a vendetta against any pair of numbers 4 and 5 batsmen who pass 40 only twice in 18 innings put together.

But when they are half a decade older than any other player in international cricket, only a fool would keep selecting them.

Australia replaced Adam Voges as soon as age caught up with him, and Peter Handscomb has been a brilliant replacement.

The difference is that Pakistan keep flogging their horses long after they have died.

So Pakistan have to replace Misbah and Younis, but England had to call KP who hasn't played 1st class cricket in 2 years to beat India in India? Also you wanted 34 year old Ian Bell to be called up.

Shocking double standards.
[MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION]

 

[Hawkeye]

Sone paid journo of Butt would've asked this question. He has too many supporters in the media. Don't want this mediocrity again.

Anyway, like I said earlier, Mickey isn't going to bring about any big change in the ODI team. The same 80s class batsmen are going to play in the ODI outfit.

HERE'S what he said:

"It is important for Inzamam-ul-Haq and myself to plot the way forward for the 2019 World Cup without chopping and changing too much.

Well [MENTION=138463]Slog[/MENTION] haven't seen you in this thread yet.

What are your thoughts on his press conference and his future plans?

 

[Junaids]

You've been repeating this old age broken record from a long time, even before the England tour, and have been proven wrong on every occasion.

Pardon?

Misbah-ul-Haq in Tests outside Asia in the last 5 years (excluding Zimbabwe)
Played 11 Tests
21 innings
1 century
4 fifties
16 failures
Average 25.57

If that is "proving me wrong", I can't imagine what being right would look like.

You are basically accepting a Number 8 batsman at Number 5.

 

[Hawkeye]

Sorry, but no.

Misbah has always been a flat track bully..


..
We all agree that Salman Butt was a fairly ordinary batsman (just good by Pakistan opening standards).
.

You're again using deflection tactics. You're claiming old age is a problem and bad for the team. But you're forgetting a simple truth that old man took his team to no.1 and was our best batsman in England!

Also, Misbah is old and FTB. BUT then again you make a joke of this reasoning by ignoring what the young guys average. [MENTION=141811]shariqnoor[/MENTION] above called out your clueless logic above if you bothered to read his post.

Also, how come Younis Khan at such an old age averages in 40s and 50s overseas? In Australia, New Zealand and England? You keep calling him out because of his old age as well.

Then bring in Salman Butt out of all people and claim he's great, while he either averages in a single digit or in 20s overseas.

Make up your mind. You're making a joke of your "old age" logic, bringing in selected stats of players, ignoring others, and posting stuff that doesn't make sense.

Call out players on their ability if you really want to go that route. Not old age, you give us good laughing material.

 

[Junaids]

You're again using deflection tactics. You're claiming old age is a problem and bad for the team. But you're forgetting a simple truth that old man took his team to no.1 and was our best batsman in England!

Also, Misbah is old and FTB. BUT then again you make a joke of this reasoning by ignoring what the young guys average. [MENTION=141811]shariqnoor[/MENTION] above called out your clueless logic above if you bothered to read his post.

Also, how come Younis Khan at such an old age averages in 40s and 50s overseas? In Australia, New Zealand and England? You keep calling him out because of his old age as well.

Then bring in Salman Butt out of all people and claim he's great, while he either averages in a single digit or in 20s overseas.

Make up your mind. You're making a joke of your "old age" logic, bringing in selected stats of players, ignoring others, and posting stuff that doesn't make sense.

Call out players on their ability if you really want to go that route. Not old age, you give us good laughing material.

So many points to discuss in this.

Younis Khan was a genuine Pakistani ATG batsman. It is scandalous that he wasn't taken to Australia and England in 2009-10 and 2010.

But all that is left now is the remnants of that greatness. He will make a huge score once per away series and fail the rest of the time, which keeps his average up but drops his team into trouble 80% of the time.

There's nothing surprising about Babar Azam and Sami Aslam struggling at the start of their Test careers. It's normal. Lara and Tendulkar didn't hit centuries in their first series either. Indeed, it's why an international team must be run like a conveyer belt, with senior players replaced by younger ones one at a time to ensure that a team doesn't end up like Pakistan in Australia, carrying 2 rookies and 2 geriatrics in the top six at the same time.

No other team in the world has even one player over 40. Pakistan has two, and they are non-contributing freeloaders in at least 80% of the innings outside Asia, and have been for half a decade.

Let me remind you, their contemporaries were Ponting and Sangakkara and Vaughan and Kallis. Each of whom is long gone.

It's utter insanity to expect consistent from two players who have consistently failed in at least 65% of innings in every series outside Asia for the last half-decade.

 

[Junaids]

Younis Khan's 9 Tests outside Asia since July 2016
33 + 25
1 + 28
31 + 4
218
2 + 1
2 + 11
0 + 65
21 + 24
175* + 13

2 great scores, 1 acceptable score and 14 failures which dropped his team into trouble.

Misbah's 8 Tests outside Asia since July 2016
114 + 0
52 + 35
56 + 10
15
31 + 13
4 + 5
11 + 0
18 + 38
1 good score, 2 okay scores and 13 failures.

No team can survive when their Numbers 4 and 5 fail so often. It's impossible.

Younis and Misbah are the problem. Old age is the problem.

And recalling men in their thirties cannot be part of the solution.

 

[shaz619]

Younis Khan's 9 Tests outside Asia since July 2016
33 + 25
1 + 28
31 + 4
218
2 + 1
2 + 11
0 + 65
21 + 24
175* + 13

2 great scores, 1 acceptable score and 14 failures which dropped his team into trouble.

Misbah's 8 Tests outside Asia since July 2016
114 + 0
52 + 35
56 + 10
15
31 + 13
4 + 5
11 + 0
18 + 38
1 good score, 2 okay scores and 13 failures.

No team can survive when their Numbers 4 and 5 fail so often. It's impossible.

Younis and Misbah are the problem. Old age is the problem.

And recalling men in their thirties cannot be part of the solution.

Still, it is due to these two men we drew level with England! our greatest feat in years! Stop being so ungrateful, these manchesters always bite the hand that feeds them

 

[Junaids]

Still, it is due to these two men we drew level with England! our greatest feat in years! Stop being so ungrateful, these manchesters always bite the hand that feeds them

Michael Vaughan is one of ours - he was born in Eccles, near where the Trafford Centre is!

I don't agree about the England tour, you'll be unsurprised to hear. In my opinion:

1. Babar Azam should have replaced Misbah in late 2014, for the New Zealand series in the UAE.
2. Sami Aslam should have been persisted with after Bangladesh in 2015.
3. Younis should have been replaced with a quick-bowling all-rounder after the Bangladesh series - whether Hammad Azam or Aamer Yamin.
4. Mohammad Asif should have played from the start of the England series, and would have just retired after a comeback of around 50 wickets in 12 Tests.

I think that if those changes had been made proactively, Pakistan would have won all three away series in England, New Zealand and Australia.

 

[shaz619]

Michael Vaughan is one of ours - he was born in Eccles, near where the Trafford Centre is!

I don't agree about the England tour, you'll be unsurprised to hear. In my opinion:

1. Babar Azam should have replaced Misbah in late 2014, for the New Zealand series in the UAE.
2. Sami Aslam should have been persisted with after Bangladesh in 2015.
3. Younis should have been replaced with a quick-bowling all-rounder after the Bangladesh series - whether Hammad Azam or Aamer Yamin.
4. Mohammad Asif should have played from the start of the England series, and would have just retired after a comeback of around 50 wickets in 12 Tests.

I think that if those changes had been made proactively, Pakistan would have won all three away series in England, New Zealand and Australia.

Doesn't matter when Babar would have made his debut it is naive to think he'd be a world beater in his debut series in England, you could have bought him into the team a lot earlier but it wouldn't have made a difference but no doubt he is a star off the future. You see even without your replacements Pakistan won more sessions then England during the series, we only drew level because you got lucky when we self destructed at Edgbaston!

However, it is due to Misbah who was the man of the series and Khan who was man of the match in our win at the Oval why we drew level in England! hehe

 

[Junaids]

Doesn't matter when Babar would have made his debut it is naive to think he'd be a world beater in his debut series in England, you could have bought him into the team a lot earlier but it wouldn't have made a difference but no doubt he is a star off the future. You see even without your replacements Pakistan won more sessions then England during the series, we only drew level because you got lucky when we self destructed at Edgbaston!

However, it is due to Misbah who was the man of the series and Khan who was man of the match in our win at the Oval why we drew level in England! hehe

Just dream on this:

1. Azhar Ali
2. Sami Aslam
3. Babar Azam
4. Asad Shafiq
5. Umar Akmal
6. Sarfraz Ahmed (capt/wk)
7. Aamer Yamin
8. Yasir Shah
9. Mohammad Amir
10. Wahab Riaz
11. Mohammad Asif

I genuinely think that that team would have won 3-1 in England, 1-0 in New Zealand and 1-0 in Australia.

Apart from everything else, by having 4 quick bowlers it would have allowed Amir and Wahab to bowl shorter, faster spells. And Yasir Shah would have been much more influential as a strike bowler with less defensive fields.

 

[MMHS]

I feel, Mickey & PCB has come to an understanding. It's a compromise from both ends.

If Mickey was solely in charge, at least for LO, I am almost certain Sarfraz would have been only over 29 player in squad. He dropped Shaun Pollock at <35, that same Pollock will make current PAK LO team at 43 with couple of weeks training!!!!

On contrary, if PCB & it's decision makers were in charge, only Amir, Umar & Babar will be U29 player in the squad - oldies including Ajmal, Gul, Zulfi Babar & even Sami would have made a comeback; YK, Misbah as well, had they not retired from LO cricket. There is a reason PAK team is the oldest by some margin - that too considering official age.

I feel, the compromise is that, Mickey will take oldies till CT17. If they perform, some of those will be dragged to 2019; but otherwise Arthur will have the chainsaw at hand. Inzi & Shahriar also accepted that, because of whatever, if PAK matches CT13 performance, they can sack Arthur, without compensation.

Not a healthy situation - a top class Coach is forced to work with players that he doesn't want in his squad (the amount of lip service Arthur does for Misbah, MoHa, YK ... in front of press, does contradict - from a man who was too cool in PSL final as analyst); while an utmost powerful Chief Selector is forced to pick players that he doesn't trust.

This is one reason, I do think PCB (cricket) should move into a Soccer, Basketball or Baseball structure. The head coach (We can call Team Director) will be in charge of National team (a) with specialist coaches, analysts, physios, trainers, selectors, scouts & groundsmen reporting to him. That Director only takes order from CEO/Chairman.

That's actually the job description of a Soccer Manager & GM Basketball/Baseball.


PS: it's a moot discussion what YK or Misbah had been. In every job, there is a retirement age - in physical sports, it reaches that age in between 35 to 38 in most cases. Officially, MoYo is younger than Misbah, and he was a far, far better batsman - why not him then?

 

[DRsohail]

I feel, Mickey & PCB has come to an understanding. It's a compromise from both ends.

If Mickey was solely in charge, at least for LO, I am almost certain Sarfraz would have been only over 29 player in squad. He dropped Shaun Pollock at <35, that same Pollock will make current PAK LO team at 43 with couple of weeks training!!!!

On contrary, if PCB & it's decision makers were in charge, only Amir, Umar & Babar will be U29 player in the squad - oldies including Ajmal, Gul, Zulfi Babar & even Sami would have made a comeback; YK, Misbah as well, had they not retired from LO cricket. There is a reason PAK team is the oldest by some margin - that too considering official age.

I feel, the compromise is that, Mickey will take oldies till CT17. If they perform, some of those will be dragged to 2019; but otherwise Arthur will have the chainsaw at hand. Inzi & Shahriar also accepted that, because of whatever, if PAK matches CT13 performance, they can sack Arthur, without compensation.

Not a healthy situation - a top class Coach is forced to work with players that he doesn't want in his squad (the amount of lip service Arthur does for Misbah, MoHa, YK ... in front of press, does contradict - from a man who was too cool in PSL final as analyst); while an utmost powerful Chief Selector is forced to pick players that he doesn't trust.

This is one reason, I do think PCB (cricket) should move into a Soccer, Basketball or Baseball structure. The head coach (We can call Team Director) will be in charge of National team (a) with specialist coaches, analysts, physios, trainers, selectors, scouts & groundsmen reporting to him. That Director only takes order from CEO/Chairman.

That's actually the job description of a Soccer Manager & GM Basketball/Baseball.


PS: it's a moot discussion what YK or Misbah had been. In every job, there is a retirement age - in physical sports, it reaches that age in between 35 to 38 in most cases. Officially, MoYo is younger than Misbah, and he was a far, far better batsman - why not him then?

ur predition for odi squad????

 

[Syed1]

I feel, Mickey & PCB has come to an understanding. It's a compromise from both ends.

If Mickey was solely in charge, at least for LO, I am almost certain Sarfraz would have been only over 29 player in squad. He dropped Shaun Pollock at <35, that same Pollock will make current PAK LO team at 43 with couple of weeks training!!!!

On contrary, if PCB & it's decision makers were in charge, only Amir, Umar & Babar will be U29 player in the squad - oldies including Ajmal, Gul, Zulfi Babar & even Sami would have made a comeback; YK, Misbah as well, had they not retired from LO cricket. There is a reason PAK team is the oldest by some margin - that too considering official age.

I feel, the compromise is that, Mickey will take oldies till CT17. If they perform, some of those will be dragged to 2019; but otherwise Arthur will have the chainsaw at hand. Inzi & Shahriar also accepted that, because of whatever, if PAK matches CT13 performance, they can sack Arthur, without compensation.

Not a healthy situation - a top class Coach is forced to work with players that he doesn't want in his squad (the amount of lip service Arthur does for Misbah, MoHa, YK ... in front of press, does contradict - from a man who was too cool in PSL final as analyst); while an utmost powerful Chief Selector is forced to pick players that he doesn't trust.

This is one reason, I do think PCB (cricket) should move into a Soccer, Basketball or Baseball structure. The head coach (We can call Team Director) will be in charge of National team (a) with specialist coaches, analysts, physios, trainers, selectors, scouts & groundsmen reporting to him. That Director only takes order from CEO/Chairman.

That's actually the job description of a Soccer Manager & GM Basketball/Baseball.


PS: it's a moot discussion what YK or Misbah had been. In every job, there is a retirement age - in physical sports, it reaches that age in between 35 to 38 in most cases. Officially, MoYo is younger than Misbah, and he was a far, far better batsman - why not him then?

Sir Moyo was 10 times better batsman than Misbah but he wasn't a "gentleman" and didn't take side to number one spot for half a day hence he doesn't get to play till he is fifty.


The Misbah mentality is such that "officially" 33 year old Azhar Ali is termed a youngster. Bigger and better players have ended their careers at 33, other spectacular players have entered the twilight of their careers at 33 but in Pakistan the youngster is still finding his feet.

Hardly any "young" player debuted under Misbah. The biggest example is Haris Sohail. The lad was smashing it to all parts in domestics for a good three-four years but was never in the squad or given a game. His big break came when another oldie and bestie of gentleman, MoHa, got injured. Haris Sohail was made a part of the ODI side just 6-8 months prior to the 2015 WC and in that short period became our best batsman.


If it wasn't for Misbah's love for oldies we would have a young squad and a much better performing unit.

 

[MMHS]

ur predition for odi squad????

MoHa & KAkmal will be there. Since Arthur has some say, MoHa will bat at 4 to keep Babar at 3 - which drops Sarfu or Malik at 6. That's 3 squire pegs in round hole. In PAK cricket, since Imran, no one is more powerful than Hafeez, not even Inzi or Misbah. If Sarfu struggles with managing 3 roles st one time, MoHa will lead PAK to 2019 WC.

Rest doesn't matter much.

 

[Hawkeye]

I feel, the compromise is that, Mickey will take oldies till CT17. If they perform, some of those will be dragged to 2019; but otherwise Arthur will have the chainsaw at hand. Inzi & Shahriar also accepted that, because of whatever, if PAK matches CT13 performance, they can sack Arthur, without compensation.

Nope. You're wrong.

Mickey is fully in on this - he doesn't want to shake up the team, his own words - he will NOT get rid of the "settled" seniors like Hafeez, Malik, et. al.

 

[MMHS]

Sir Moyo was 10 times better batsman than Misbah but he wasn't a "gentleman" and didn't take side to number one spot for half a day hence he doesn't get to play till he is fifty.


The Misbah mentality is such that "officially" 33 year old Azhar Ali is termed a youngster. Bigger and better players have ended their careers at 33, other spectacular players have entered the twilight of their careers at 33 but in Pakistan the youngster is still finding his feet.

Hardly any "young" player debuted under Misbah. The biggest example is Haris Sohail. The lad was smashing it to all parts in domestics for a good three-four years but was never in the squad or given a game. His big break came when another oldie and bestie of gentleman, MoHa, got injured. Haris Sohail was made a part of the ODI side just 6-8 months prior to the 2015 WC and in that short period became our best batsman.


If it wasn't for Misbah's love for oldies we would have a young squad and a much better performing unit.

Misbah was/is only part of the problem. He was definitely not the reason that 5 PSL franchises had average age of 29. He is definitely not appointing half of FC captains in PAK domestics in their 40s. And, he was definitely nobody, when 3 players debuted in 4 years under Inzi, at a time PAK won 2 U19 WC.

If the system is built on relationship & whose who - it'll always favour senior people. Most % of over age people are in Govt. jobs, across the globe, because the system allows senior people to oil leaders & politicians to get extension in high profile jobs. And they hang on to top positions with their old ideology - that's why everywhere Govt. offices are slowest to react or function - more or less everywhere from Swaziland to Singapore.

Professional sports has come out of that almost everywhere, PAK cricket still hasn't. Arthur is fowling his mentor in this regard - Bob never wasted time on who was picked or not; as a pro of highest order, his motto was to help & develop every player he was given by selectors. To his favour, Sohail cleaned the house just after 2003 WC; otherwise PAK team would have been 35 years average old in 2007 WC as well.

 

[MMHS]

Nope. You're wrong.

Mickey is fully in on this - he doesn't want to shake up the team, his own words - he will NOT get rid of the "settled" seniors like Hafeez, Malik, et. al.

Just like in his own word, he said that he wants to work with Azhar. I called the bluff at that time (you can check my post sometime before WI series), which Old Khan exposed in this careless chater.

Micky only said words that defuse the conflict, because he knows that Inzi (PCB as a whole) had decided to keep the average age over 30. What do you expect him to say - "I want to build a new team with lots of young players & get rid of obsolete oldies". Then, when PAK plays a young mans game with 7/8 players in their mid 30s; he should give the TTL (tried & tested logic) -"There is not much talent available".

Arthur is a professional & man with self respect - you don't expect him to do things like Inzamam. That's talk lots about future & then pick 16 identical players for UAE, NZ & AUS - half of them obsolete.

I repeat, you can mark this post - if Arthur remains in charge till 2019 WC, PAK's average age will come down to 25/26 level.

 

[Saj]

Seems pretty clear that despite Inzi pushing him, Mickey does not want Salman Butt around the Pakistan squad.

 

[ExpressPacer]

People can say whatever they want to, put up whatever stats they like but the fact is Misbah has been and still is the second best Test batsman in Paksitan, after Younis. Both have been Legends and the only reason for Pakistan's success. Had they not played, we wouldn't even have won at home..

 

[ExpressPacer]

Bro Misbah isn't even in the top five when it comes to stats for Pakistani batsman, what are you even talking about.

Also stop associating him with YK who is miles ahead of him and many other Pakistani greats.


If you want to disregard stats and proclaim that Misbah is one of the best Pakistani batsman ever, then we have a word for it, and it is called "fan-boyism"

Man. I meant for current players and I don't there's anyone better than him, other than Younis. Azhar Ali just had a terrific year of Test cricket and I hope he goes on to become an ATG but he's still inferior to Misbah. Asad Shafiq is average and Sarfraz can't bat to save his life on tricky pitches. Sami Aslam, Babar Azam and Sharjeel (if he still plays) are still too new.

However, agreed, Misbah isn't of course the best batsman or even of the bests to have played for Pakistan but he certainly is a really, really good batsman who will always be remember for his great contribution to the team. I just really hope he can get his average back to 50.

 

[world cup captain]

What preparation for 2019 WC ? With proven TTfs like Hafeez, Akmal, Sohail, Azhar, Malik, Wahab all these guys have led us to defeat in every world cup now he's taking the same TTFs for 2019 WC. Mickey is a total liar.

If I remember correctly, the players you have mentioned have fared well in the individual World Cups they have played, except from Akmal who has been an utter failure. Wahab on the other hand has been exceptional in all of the ICC tournaments he has played in. Last but not least, Azhar has never played in a World Cup; therefore, another unjustified grouping.

 

[MenInG]

Don't get personal with each other - bans will follow if we see no improvement.

 

[Hawkeye]

Just like in his own word, he said that he wants to work with Azhar. I called the bluff at that time (you can check my post sometime before WI series), which Old Khan exposed in this careless chater.

Micky only said words that defuse the conflict, because he knows that Inzi (PCB as a whole) had decided to keep the average age over 30. What do you expect him to say - "I want to build a new team with lots of young players & get rid of obsolete oldies". Then, when PAK plays a young mans game with 7/8 players in their mid 30s; he should give the TTL (tried & tested logic) -"There is not much talent available".

Arthur is a professional & man with self respect - you don't expect him to do things like Inzamam. That's talk lots about future & then pick 16 identical players for UAE, NZ & AUS - half of them obsolete.

I repeat, you can mark this post - if Arthur remains in charge till 2019 WC, PAK's average age will come down to 25/26 level.

Nah bro - even Inzi didn't want Azhar - infact, nobody did after his initial horrendous show. But, from Inzi to Arthur, they couldn't have said it publicly that they don't want Azhar anymore.

Also, Inzi has given full selection rights to coach/captain, which is unlike the previous selection committees.

Mickey can bring in or kick out anyone he wants. He is a big Malik fan, so he obviously won't drop him - and he recalled Hafeez to ODI squad in Australia too.

The pattern is there to see in the playing XIs too -- these two folks in particular aren't going anywhere.

 

[Hamza_]

Arthur should drop Hafeez from Pakistan Team.
KAkmal shouldn't be selected either.

 

[Junaids]

Seems pretty clear that despite Inzi pushing him, Mickey does not want Salman Butt around the Pakistan squad.

I totally agree, but is that for reasons of moral purity or because he doesn't want yet another 32 year old who will be 34 in two years' time?

This, remember, is the man who sacked Shaun Pollock for being too old, and who didn't want a 35 year old Chris Rogers in the team.

 

[khurram39]

Great to have new talent and a good thing about slaman butt, a chapter closed.

 

[Markhor]

20, 4 and 0 in Salman Butt's three innings for Punjab in the Pakistan Cup.

Blistering form, clearly should've been on the Australia tour....

 

[Hasan123]

Lol can remember Junaids and MMHS thinking Salman would outperform Azhar in Australia.

Better to invest in Shehzad, Sami, and Imam over Butt.

 

[Markhor]

Lol can remember Junaids and MMHS thinking Salman would outperform Azhar in Australia.

Better to invest in Shehzad, Sami, and Imam over Butt.

The worst thing is whenever he or some PPers make these grand predictions and they are inevitably proven wrong - they don't then have the guts to come back here and say "my bad, I got it wrong".

Instead they pretend it never happened.

 

[Hasan123]

The worst thing is whenever he or some other PPers make these grand predictions and they are inevitably proven wrong - they don't then have the guts to come back here and say "my bad, I got it wrong".

Instead they pretend it never happened.

Yes I can remember them both thinking he would do well because of previous performances in Australia.

The Australian tour was poor but at least Pakistan's GOAT batsmen in Australia isn't a fixer .

 

[MMHS]

Yes I can remember them both thinking he would do well because of previous performances in Australia.

The Australian tour was poor but at least Pakistan's GOAT batsmen in Australia isn't a fixer .

Are you sure about MMHS?

 

[Boi]

Are you sure about MMHS?

Not sure about whether you thought Butt would outperform Azhar but you were pretty sure that Azhar wouldn't succeed as he had 'no strokes outside offstump'. Pretty impressive of him to get 200 out in Australia with no scoring shots outside offstump then eh.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...here-their-off-stump-is&p=9004141#post9004141

 

[MMHS]

Not sure about whether you thought Butt would outperform Azhar but you were pretty sure that Azhar wouldn't succeed as he had 'no strokes outside offstump'. Pretty impressive of him to get 200 out in Australia with no scoring shots outside offstump then eh.

http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...here-their-off-stump-is&p=9004141#post9004141

That's still true - he might get a double hundred, but check how many shots he played outside off in his first 2/3 hours.

He is a Test opener, therefore did his job perfectly, but not necessarily he is a good off side stroke maker.

 

[Junaids]

20, 4 and 0 in Salman Butt's three innings for Punjab in the Pakistan Cup.

Blistering form, clearly should've been on the Australia tour....

I'm on record as saying that after Australia has gone he is too old. He's the exact same age as Azhar Ali and Alastair Cook, both of whom should be in the final year before retirement now.

But still, disparaging his Test credentials due to 50 overs scores is stupid.

He scored twin hundreds in the QEA Final just as recently as Azhar Ali last scored any Test runs.

 

[todfod 11]

this is like chor ulta kotowal ko dantay.

Everybody who has the best interest of Pakistan cricket in his/her heart will agree that selecting Kami is a huge step backward and easily the worst decision Inzi has made as the chief selector. And I know that you also dont agree with Pakistan going backward in this case.

shehzad ad hafeez as well..
drop sami aslam was maddening