'We lay like corpses': Bangladesh's 1970s rape camp survivors speak out (The Guardian)

[Mamoon]

In 1971, during the nine-month war that gave Bangladesh its independence from then West Pakistan, four sisters – Amina, Maleka, Mukhlesa and Budhi Begum – were abducted by Pakistani soldiers and local collaborators. They were among the more than 200,000 women held in rape camps and were detained for two and a half months.

“Twenty-two of us would lie like corpses in that room,” says Maleka as she explains how her elder sister Buhdi, “unable to bear the pain”, died before they were released.

Four decades on, Mukhlesa, who had crouched in water trying to evade the kidnappers, shows film-maker Leesa Gazi the sites of atrocities she witnessed. She explains how the soldiers took the women with them wherever they went, placing them to the fore as a human shield.

The sisters’ stories are part of Gazi’s award-winning documentary, Rising Silence, screened on Tuesday in London, which preserves the testimony of some of the few women who are still alive, several of whom have died since filming.

What the women had experienced was one of the first recorded examples of rape being used as a weapon of war in the 20th century.

The film has been shown in Bangladesh, Iceland, Italy and the Netherlands, winning honours at festivals from Dhaka to Moondance, and most recently at the Asian Media Awards.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/nov/05/bangladesh-1970s-camp-survivors-speak-out

Wonderful to see the foreign media highlighting our harrowing past. We are guilty of committing arguably the worst genocide in the modern history of the subcontinent, and no amount of crocodile tears over J&K can remove the stains of a very revolting chapter in our dark history.

 

[Slog]

Terrible times for us as a country.

Thankfully many Pakistanis recognise this now and Musharraf also have a formal apology.

However two wrongs don’t make a right and it clearly says something when you care about these survivors more to make a point and de-emphasize atrocities happening in another region currently

 

[Mamoon]

Pakistan needs to provide compensation to Bangladesh. Formal apology on a visit to Bangladesh means nothing. And as far as Musharraf is concerned, when is he going to apologize for allowing the U.S. to conduct drone strikes in FATA in exchange for military equipment?

That deal with the Pentagon exposed the power-hungry tyrant that he was. He had no issues with letting his own people die in exchange for shiny weapons. That also puts his disingenuous apology to Bangladesh in perspective.

 

[Asim_khan]

Pakistan needs to provide compensation to Bangladesh. Formal apology on a visit to Bangladesh means nothing. And as far as Musharraf is concerned, when is he going to apologize for allowing the U.S. to conduct drone strikes in FATA in exchange for military equipment?

That deal with the Pentagon exposed the power-hungry tyrant that he was. He had no issues with letting his own people die in exchange for shiny weapons. That also puts his disingenuous apology to Bangladesh in perspective.

I agree.

I think all the money confiscated from Nawaz and Zardari should be paid as compensation towards victims of the butchery that occurred.

Especially since neither of these corrupt stalwarts who you hold did anything towards recognising what happened. Yet you hold these people in high regard? Why [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

 

[Mamoon]

I agree.

I think all the money confiscated from Nawaz and Zardari should be paid as compensation towards victims of the butchery that occurred.

Especially since neither of these corrupt stalwarts who you hold did anything towards recognising what happened. Yet you hold these people in high regard? Why [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION]

Oh I agree.

We are waiting for fake degree holder Murad Saeed to come back with the $200 billion that he promised to recover. In July 2018, he stated that it will only take a two months for him to get the stolen money back into the country. It is November 2019 now, can we request an update? Is there a tracking number for the delivery?

Once the fake degree holder brings the $200 billion back, we can use $100 billion to clear our external debt and give the remaining money to Bangladesh as an apology for the genocide.

 

[MenInG]

Similarly - No amount of crying over 1971 will remove the zulm on the people of Kashmir.

 

[Asim_khan]

Oh I agree.

We are waiting for fake degree holder Murad Saeed to come back with the $200 billion that he promised to recover. In July 2018, he stated that it will only take a two months for him to get the stolen money back into the country. It is November 2019 now, can we request an update? Is there a tracking number for the delivery?

Once the fake degree holder brings the $200 billion back, we can use $100 billion to clear our external debt and give the remaining money to Bangladesh as an apology for the genocide.

Not here for your whatabouttery [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION], why did the cheque writers of your family not bring any of this up during their reign?

Were they not glorious times where we were running at a surplus according to you, so we had the cash to pay the Bangladeshis, so why didn't they?

According to you and your ilkin the past, Nawaz is responsible for Pakistan being a Nuclear armed state, so pray tell why he had money to build a nuke but not money to pay reperations to Bangladeshi war widows?

 

[imrankhannsu]

This was totally horrific. I honestly feed really sad for the ordeals of these innocent women.

 

[Rana]

Not sure how an apology will erase the trauma that will last for eternity.

 

[warcry]

yawn...
no one, not a single country in the world believes the unsubstantiated lies peddled by mujib barring one country, India,because it suits them.

they didnt have shred of evidence to back their lies then and now.

But what they did do is launch pogroms on anyone not Bengali, the founding fathers of pakistan, the bengal members of the muslim league, all those who voiced opposition to bangladesh. That is well documented.

 

[Specialkid]

And how many don't even if it was mukhta bani or indian forces dress like pakistani arm forces to create these false propaganda..

How many bihari still suffering as either they are pakistani or bengali..no one knows..

Bangladesh is a corrupt country with a puppet place by indian agency raw..once sheikh haseena gone..pakistan and bangladesh will have great diplomatic relations...

 

[Local.Dada]

yawn...
no one, not a single country in the world believes the unsubstantiated lies peddled by mujib barring one country, India,because it suits them.

they didnt have shred of evidence to back their lies then and now.

But what they did do is launch pogroms on anyone not Bengali, the founding fathers of pakistan, the bengal members of the muslim league, all those who voiced opposition to bangladesh. That is well documented.

Didn't countries support the formation of Bangladesh? especially at a time when India wasn't even a player in world politics and economics like it is today.

Well documented where? that matters a lot.

 

[warcry]

formation of bangladesh is one thing. fact is that ruling east pakistan from islamabad was difficult, as well as trying to rule islamabad from dhaka, due to the distance between two wings.

All countries, including Pakistan, recognize bangladesh as an independent country

but accepting that pakistan conducted a bangladeshi genocide is something else. Barring india, no country in the world has recognized the lie that pakistan conducted a genocide in bangladesh.


Mujib lied about the 3 million dead and 300 000 raped, they never presented any evidence, and they expected that you would accept it on face value.

 

[warcry]

Didn't countries support the formation of Bangladesh? especially at a time when India wasn't even a player in world politics and economics like it is today.

Well documented where? that matters a lot.

and as for the well documented path. just go to a bihari camp in bangladesh and see for yourself, what bangladesh has done its own people, on the crime of being non bengali.

 

[Syed1]

What happened in East Pakistan will always be a stain on our country's history. However, it is ironic that OP has failed to knowledge similar atrocities by his beloved desh in Kashmir. This is what happens when you belong to corrupt family and have grown up on stolen wealth.

 

[Pakistanian]

Unlike how Indians bring up the counter-genocide of Pandits of Kashmir when asked about India's genocide of Kashmiris, you'll never hear Pakistanis talk about the millions of Urdu people that were murdered and raped in East Pakistan during the war of 1971 by Bengali nationalists supported by India.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Pakistan needs to provide compensation to Bangladesh. Formal apology on a visit to Bangladesh means nothing.

There have been calls in India for compensation due to Britain's imperial rule which supposedly turned India from one of the world's richest economies into a nation of beggars. I would imagine Pakistan will get a hefty chunk of that, perhaps they can pay Bangledesh out of that kitty.

Or another alternative would be for the govt to tax well to do families who can afford latest iphones for their offspring in a one off collection. You have a pretty nifty iphone I believe?

 

[MenInG]

What happened in East Pakistan will always be a stain on our country's history. However, it is ironic that OP has failed to knowledge similar atrocities by his beloved desh in Kashmir. This is what happens when you belong to corrupt family and have grown up on stolen wealth.

Think the disingenuous intentions of the thread starter are clear to all - but am sure he will be applauded by our neighbors - nothing new in this.

 

[Mesozoic]

Unlike how Indians bring up the counter-genocide of Pandits of Kashmir when asked about India's genocide of Kashmiris, you'll never hear Pakistanis talk about the millions of Urdu people that were murdered and raped in East Pakistan during the war of 1971 by Bengali nationalists supported by India.

Lol.

Everytime 1971 comes up here on PP, that excuse is used by posters here.

 

[imrankhannsu]

People who deny such atrocities or defend it are no worse than how Israelis who treat Palestinians issues

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

No one should deny any atrocities, whichever side committed them, but to drag up stuff from half a century ago is pointless. But some posters have a clear agenda to keep Pakistan suffering, and anyone who thinks Pakistan is in a position to pay compensation to Bangladesh without remuneration for losses on the other side clearly hates the country with a passion.

 

[miandadrules]

No one should deny any atrocities, whichever side committed them, but to drag up stuff from half a century ago is pointless. But some posters have a clear agenda to keep Pakistan suffering, and anyone who thinks Pakistan is in a position to pay compensation to Bangladesh without remuneration for losses on the other side clearly hates the country with a passion.

Keep Pakistan suffering?

Is this in the context of rape and genocide committed by said forces?

 

[sweep_shot]

Some bad things happened in 1971 (on both sides). But, it is past. We have to move forward. No point in crying over spilled milk.

 

[miandadrules]

Pakistan needs to provide compensation to Bangladesh. Formal apology on a visit to Bangladesh means nothing. And as far as Musharraf is concerned, when is he going to apologize for allowing the U.S. to conduct drone strikes in FATA in exchange for military equipment?

That deal with the Pentagon exposed the power-hungry tyrant that he was. He had no issues with letting his own people die in exchange for shiny weapons. That also puts his disingenuous apology to Bangladesh in perspective.

I might be wrong but Musharaf didn’t offer a formal apology or anything close.

Obviously, formal acknowledgment would lead to a claim for compensation which the state can’t afford. But even if we put that aside, there isn’t even an acknowledgement within the state that a crime was truly committed.

You’ll hear more victim blaming, conspiracy theories and blatant lies than a simple acceptance of the truth.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Keep Pakistan suffering?

Is this in the context of rape and genocide committed by said forces?

How do you propose Pakistan pay the compensation OP is asking for? Pakistan is already heavily in debt so I assume an extra burden would not be good for the citizens right now.

 

[Local.Dada]

And how many don't even if it was mukhta bani or indian forces dress like pakistani arm forces to create these false propaganda..

How many bihari still suffering as either they are pakistani or bengali..no one knows..

Bangladesh is a corrupt country with a puppet place by indian agency raw..once sheikh haseena gone..pakistan and bangladesh will have great diplomatic relations...

Correct my timelines here, but has Sheih Haseena ruled over Bangladesh for 48 years or are you telling me that this so called new propaganda about genocide is something that has just popped up in recent times?

 

[Local.Dada]

How do you propose Pakistan pay the compensation OP is asking for? Pakistan is already heavily in debt so I assume an extra burden would not be good for the citizens right now.

For starters an apology from the head of state would be a nice start.

 

[miandadrules]

Similarly - No amount of crying over 1971 will remove the zulm on the people of Kashmir.

Would you say the two are equivalent?

I personally feel we delegitimise the plight of the Kashmiris when we indulge in whataboutism.

This is was a sustained systematic campaign against our own citizens. Considered one of the biggest genocides since the holocaust.

 

[miandadrules]

yawn...
no one, not a single country in the world believes the unsubstantiated lies peddled by mujib barring one country, India,because it suits them.

they didnt have shred of evidence to back their lies then and now.

But what they did do is launch pogroms on anyone not Bengali, the founding fathers of pakistan, the bengal members of the muslim league, all those who voiced opposition to bangladesh. That is well documented.

There is no doubt that the Bangladeshi side committed war crimes too. That is for them to deal with.

What we are responsible are the crimes that we commit, or those that are committed in our name.

 

[miandadrules]

People who deny such atrocities or defend it are no worse than how Israelis who treat Palestinians issues

Exactly, one needs to apply the same criteria to all situations. Internal and external.

 

[MenInG]

No one is denying these atrocities. What is disgusting is the attempt to belittle Kashmiri sufferings by use of this tragedy.

 

[miandadrules]

How do you propose Pakistan pay the compensation OP is asking for? Pakistan is already heavily in debt so I assume an extra burden would not be good for the citizens right now.

I didn’t suggest Pakistan pay anything.

But you clearly chose to use the term “keep Pakistan Suffering” when referring to a genocide committed by its forces.”

I’m sure the burden of Rape and Genocide was not good for the East Pakistani citizens. Why didn’t they delay it, like you propose they delay the compensation?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

For starters an apology from the head of state would be a nice start.

That is not going to happen when compensation claims are likely to be thrown in as a result. Especially since Pakistan doesn not accept the extent or scale of the atrocities committed, and since the other side has not acknowledged any of their own similar atrocities.

 

[Pakistanian]

Countries rarely apologies for genocides, Bangladesh will never apologize for the over 500k urdu people they murdered and rape but of course they don't matter and most Pakistanis probably aren't even aware of the so called "counter-genoicide".

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I didn’t suggest Pakistan pay anything.

But you clearly chose to use the term “keep Pakistan Suffering” when referring to a genocide committed by its forces.”

I’m sure the burden of Rape and Genocide was not good for the East Pakistani citizens. Why didn’t they delay it, like you propose they delay the compensation?

I think you read my post wrong. By keep Pakistan suffering, I meant imposing compensation burden on a third world country which is already heavily in debt. Is that your proposal?

 

[miandadrules]

Countries rarely apologies for genocides, Bangladesh will never apologize for the over 500k urdu people they murdered and rape but of course they don't matter and most Pakistanis probably aren't even aware of the so called "counter-genoicide".

Pakistanis are not responsible for the crimes committed by Bangladeshis, they are responsible for the crimes they commit.

If you want others to be held accountable, then one must accept the same standard for oneself.

 

[miandadrules]

I think you read my post wrong. By keep Pakistan suffering, I meant imposing compensation burden on a third world country which is already heavily in debt. Is that your proposal?

I read it perfectly.

As to opposed to rape and genocide on a third world country that was already suffering? Did we agree that it was a convenient time to commit these crimes?

Just stretching your compensation analogy. Let me know if you want any further clarification.

 

[Pakistanian]

Pakistanis are not responsible for the crimes committed by Bangladeshis, they are responsible for the crimes they commit.

If you want others to be held accountable, then one must accept the same standard for oneself.

We should but the ignorance of Pakistanis and denial by Bangladeshis and Indians about this genocide doesn't help. It's like that counter-genocide didn't matter.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I read it perfectly.

As to opposed to rape and genocide on a third world country that was already suffering? Did we agree that it was a convenient time to commit these crimes?

Just stretching your compensation analogy. Let me know if you want any further clarification.

I would like clarification on what your proposal would be with regard to OP's demand that Pakistan pay compensation. That is after all what he is asking for. Do you agree, and how would it be settled?

 

[Local.Dada]

No one is denying these atrocities. What is disgusting is the attempt to belittle Kashmiri sufferings by use of this tragedy.

Why the need to bring in equivalence to everything? why can't a thread about what happened in 1971 be about denying or admitting what has happened?

 

[Pakistanian]

Why the need to bring in equivalence to everything? why can't a thread about what happened in 1971 be about denying or admitting what has happened?

Cause the OP set the trend by trying to compare it to Kashmir.

 

[miandadrules]

We should but the ignorance of Pakistanis and denial by Bangladeshis and Indians about this genocide doesn't help. It's like that counter-genocide didn't matter.

I agree.

But part of that is that we as Pakistanis haven’t pushed the Bihari agenda. For these movements to stay in the discourse they need strong vocal support.

E.g. Kashmir and Pakistan, Palestine and the Muslim world, Bangladesh and India about East Pakistan and so on.

Who on the international stage is fighting the case for the Bihari’s?

We can’t on one hand not push for the cause and cry foul when no one acknowledges them.

 

[miandadrules]

I would like clarification on what your proposal would be with regard to OP's demand that Pakistan pay compensation. That is after all what he is asking for. Do you agree, and how would it be settled?

My counter to that is, did you arrange the genocide at a mutually convenient time, as you are proposing to settle the compensation?

 

[Sabeelbasharat]

Although whatever has happened in the past with the people of Bangladesh was wrong, there is no need to connect this with what is happening with us in Kashmir. I recently found this site and have been going through the posts on Kashmir since the past few days, Mr Mamoon comes across frequently pointing out Pakistan's doing in 1971 was wrong and hence they don't have any say in Kashmir, You're wrong, Kashmir is an internationally recognized dispute, apart from that you don't justify another genocide by pointing out one that has been committed in the past. Most of you have no idea what we go through in our daily lives in Kashmir, and Allah forbid, I sincerely pray no one has to go through this mental trauma. Our children are being detained, their future being ruined. People have been dying because of a healthcare crisis, My own Grandfather passed away on the 4th of September 2019, after he suffered a cardiac arrest and couldn't make it to the hospital in time due to strict restrictions, on top of it my family came to know about his death 2 hours later because phones weren't working back then, we were informed about his death by A CRPF personnel who was calling from a PCR, I haven't seen the kind of humilation and pain in my father's eyes and on his face ever. You don't need to play down the ongoing genocide in Kashmir to acknowledge genocides in the past. We kashmiris have been caged, Imagine 95 days without Internet? Can you? So a humble request to show some humanity and stop comparing genocides. Thanks.

 

[Local.Dada]

Although whatever has happened in the past with the people of Bangladesh was wrong, there is no need to connect this with what is happening with us in Kashmir. I recently found this site and have been going through the posts on Kashmir since the past few days, Mr Mamoon comes across frequently pointing out Pakistan's doing in 1971 was wrong and hence they don't have any say in Kashmir, You're wrong, Kashmir is an internationally recognized dispute, apart from that you don't justify another genocide by pointing out one that has been committed in the past. Most of you have no idea what we go through in our daily lives in Kashmir, and Allah forbid, I sincerely pray no one has to go through this mental trauma. Our children are being detained, their future being ruined. People have been dying because of a healthcare crisis, My own Grandfather passed away on the 4th of September 2019, after he suffered a cardiac arrest and couldn't make it to the hospital in time due to strict restrictions, on top of it my family came to know about his death 2 hours later because phones weren't working back then, we were informed about his death by A CRPF personnel who was calling from a PCR, I haven't seen the kind of humilation and pain in my father's eyes and on his face ever. You don't need to play down the ongoing genocide in Kashmir to acknowledge genocides in the past. We kashmiris have been caged, Imagine 95 days without Internet? Can you? So a humble request to show some humanity and stop comparing genocides. Thanks.

So you are from Indian Kashmir. How come you have internet to make a post?

Also the only blatant ethnic cleansing that happened in Indian Kashmir has been with the Pandits. Do you deny that?

I am sorry to hear what happened to your Grandfather. My heart felt condolences.

Tell me this if you are really from the Indian side of Kashmir how many non-Kashmiri people have businesses or have properties in the valley as of now? What is the networth of the Indian Kashmiri leaders, the Hurriyat and few of their lackeys? That doesn't sound like genocide to me.

Now coming back to few innocents getting hurt, I agree it shouldn't happen and can't brush it off as collateral damage but how would the people protecting law and order differentiate between a harmless peaceful protestor and a suicide bomber in such an environment.

Also the Indian government has tried to have the schools and other board exams run peacefully, so why aren't the kids going to school instead of protesting? in the western world Child support would take away those kids from the parents.

I am not demeaning the death of any innocent person who has lost their lives, but it is not a one way traffic or throwing words like genocide doesn't make it one.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

My counter to that is, did you arrange the genocide at a mutually convenient time, as you are proposing to settle the compensation?

I'm not proposing to settle the compensation, that is what the OP has specified as the outcome he is looking for. That is the crux of this thread.

 

[Pakistanian]

I agree.

But part of that is that we as Pakistanis haven’t pushed the Bihari agenda. For these movements to stay in the discourse they need strong vocal support.

E.g. Kashmir and Pakistan, Palestine and the Muslim world, Bangladesh and India about East Pakistan and so on.

Who on the international stage is fighting the case for the Bihari’s?

We can’t on one hand not push for the cause and cry foul when no one acknowledges them.

It wasn't really just "Biharis", the urdu community massacered there was from all over India like how "Punjabi" settlers getting killed in Balochistan aren't always "Punjabi".

 

[Varun]

Nobody cares about East Pakistan. It was 48 years ago.

The enemy of this season seems to be Afghanistan. Have you seen the frothing at the mouth by both sides who should be religiously, economically and culturally one peoples?

 

[miandadrules]

I'm not proposing to settle the compensation, that is what the OP has specified as the outcome he is looking for. That is the crux of this thread.

You said add to keep Pakistan suffering.

If you were truly looking for a just resolution you wouldn’t even have to ask when and how.

Because if you acknowledge the suffering compensation would cause then you would realise it pales in comparison to the atrocities that were committed.

Why should one party commit a crime and then also adjudicate on its outcome?

Let’s be clear here. This isn’t about compensation, it’s your reference to Pakistani suffering in relation to the genocide committed against Bangladeshis.

 

[miandadrules]

It wasn't really just "Biharis", the urdu community massacered there was from all over India like how "Punjabi" settlers getting killed in Balochistan aren't always "Punjabi".

I accept that but who is championing their cause?

If Pakistanis themselves don’t care then you can’t cry foul when no one else does.

 

[MenInG]

Nobody cares about East Pakistan. It was 48 years ago.

The enemy of this season seems to be Afghanistan. Have you seen the frothing at the mouth by both sides who should be religiously, economically and culturally one peoples?

The Bangladeshis I know, never discuss it and never hold that against Pakistan. It is now history and they have moved on. It seems that only people who are hell-bent on making it an issue are those with an axe to grind with the current establishment.

 

[miandadrules]

The Bangladeshis I know, never discuss it and never hold that against Pakistan. It is now history and they have moved on. It seems that only people who are hell-bent on making it an issue are those with an axe to grind with the current establishment.

But what do we accept?

What the facts are and what the Pakistani state and the populace accept are two totally different things.

Would we allow such a whitewash if we were the victims?

To insist we move on without truly acknowledging and learning from our past is unacceptable.

 

[Saj]

Awful.

Another example that it's the normal every day people who suffer due to war, not the fat cats.

 

[Local.Dada]

The Bangladeshis I know, never discuss it and never hold that against Pakistan. It is now history and they have moved on. It seems that only people who are hell-bent on making it an issue are those with an axe to grind with the current establishment.

That is because people move on. Let us take an example of the partition, Don't you think the British could have handled the migration better?

This was the largest mass migration known to mankind. tens of thousands if not millions of people died on both sides in panic trying to cross over. More people died here than the holocaust or any other genocide known to mankind in recent times.

Do you think Indians or Pakistanis bring that up in a day to day conversation when it comes to the British? both countries seem to have good relationship with Britain. That doesn't mean it was right.

 

[Saj]

The Bangladeshis I know, won't ever let this go. They pass the message on through the generations and are quick to remind anyone of Pakistani heritage of what happened.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Mukti Bahini raped many women and so did the Indian soldiers.

Indian soldiers are still raping women to this day. Not sure the OP has the courage to commment on them due to his love for the enemy state.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The Bangladeshis I know, won't ever let this go. They pass the message on through the generations and are quick to remind anyone of Pakistani heritage of what happened.

Ive never met a single Bangladeshi who has ever mentioned this. I would go further and say those who have spoken of history have said to me they are closer to Pakistan than India and always will be. Not sure what type of Bangladeshis you have spoken to.

 

[Pakistanian]

I accept that but who is championing their cause?

If Pakistanis themselves don’t care then you can’t cry foul when no one else does.

Idk what "cause" you're talking about. I thought we're talking about a historical event that happened and the lack of acknowledgment of it. The genocide of urdu people in East Pakistan has already happened Idk what 'cause' you keep bringing up. It doesn't have to be Pakistanis, any human should condemn genocide and other human right violations. If Bangladeshis who aren't nationalistic can accept that a large segment of their separatists did in fact war crimes then why would Pakistanis or any other nationality need to raise awareness?

ut what do we accept?

Like you said above, the perpetrators need to accept they committed war crimes.

 

[sweep_shot]

Ive never met a single Bangladeshi who has ever mentioned this. I would go further and say those who have spoken of history have said to me they are closer to Pakistan than India and always will be. Not sure what type of Bangladeshis you have spoken to.

Correct.

As a Bangladeshi, I can say that younger Bangladeshis (I believe most) don't care much about history including 1971 war. They are too busy with their lives. Some of the older Bangladeshis still whine about 1971 but that's natural.

In Bangladesh, you have three types of people - pro-Pakistan, pro-India, and neutral. Most are neutral nowadays.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Correct.

As a Bangladeshi, I can say that younger Bangladeshis (majority) don't care much about history (including 1971 war). They are too busy with their lives. Some of the older Bangladeshis still whine about 1971 but that's natural.

I would also say vast majority of Pakistanis have no ill feelings towards Bangladesh or Bangladeshis. In the UK both people get on very well and hardly even bring up this topic. I was in Karachi a couple of years ago and a British Bangladeshi family were on a day stop going to South Asia. I showed them around the city, taking them to the PAF muesum and showing them the great pilots of Bangledeshi heritige who are regarded as heros. They really enjoyed it and said they feel Pakistan and Bangladesh should be much much closer, which I agree with.

 

[sweep_shot]

I would also say vast majority of Pakistanis have no ill feelings towards Bangladesh or Bangladeshis. In the UK both people get on very well and hardly even bring up this topic. I was in Karachi a couple of years ago and a British Bangladeshi family were on a day stop going to South Asia. I showed them around the city, taking them to the PAF muesum and showing them the great pilots of Bangledeshi heritige who are regarded as heros. They really enjoyed it and said they feel Pakistan and Bangladesh should be much much closer, which I agree with.

I think most folks (from both sides) don't care about these past conflicts. They just want to get on with their lives.

My younger brother doesn't properly know who Mujeeb is. Generation Z of Bangladesh almost has zero interest in 1971 or any other historical event. Same with millennial generation.

Time to move forward. No point in whining about past.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You said add to keep Pakistan suffering.

If you were truly looking for a just resolution you wouldn’t even have to ask when and how.

Because if you acknowledge the suffering compensation would cause then you would realise it pales in comparison to the atrocities that were committed.

Why should one party commit a crime and then also adjudicate on its outcome?

Let’s be clear here. This isn’t about compensation, it’s your reference to Pakistani suffering in relation to the genocide committed against Bangladeshis.

Let me be even clearer here. This thread isn't about my opinion, and your views about one sentence. It is about war atrocities committed by one side, Pakistan, and the OP's demand that compensation be paid to Bangladesh. If you aren't prepared to discuss that then I guess you are more interested in discussing individual posters, which really wasn't what the topic was meant to be. At least I don't believe so.

 

[topspin]

Let me be even clearer here. This thread isn't about my opinion, and your views about one sentence. It is about war atrocities committed by one side, Pakistan, and the OP's demand that compensation be paid to Bangladesh. If you aren't prepared to discuss that then I guess you are more interested in discussing individual posters, which really wasn't what the topic was meant to be. At least I don't believe so.

What I have found with miandadrules is that he plays the poster, rather than dealing with the post.

 

[Technics 1210]

Let me be even clearer here. This thread isn't about my opinion, and your views about one sentence. It is about war atrocities committed by one side, Pakistan, and the OP's demand that compensation be paid to Bangladesh. If you aren't prepared to discuss that then I guess you are more interested in discussing individual posters, which really wasn't what the topic was meant to be. At least I don't believe so.

Glad I am not the only one who has realised this!

 

[Captain caveman]

Countries rarely apologies for genocides, Bangladesh will never apologize for the over 500k urdu people they murdered and rape but of course they don't matter and most Pakistanis probably aren't even aware of the so called "counter-genoicide".

Two of my great uncles had businesses in dhaka when the war broke out.
Their employees who they thought of as brothers not just employees, told them that they would get them out of dhaka safely - they ambushed them, the older brother sacrificed his life to save his younger brother. The younger brother saw his older brother getting his throat slit and hacked to death!
Many of my relatives in Pakistan still to this day hate bengladeshis.

The truth is that war is evil and the first casualty of war is humanity.
There was atrocities committed on ALL sides, you can argue who committed the most atrocities if you want, for me, one atrocity is one too many!

If anyone follows my posts on here, i always give respect to the bangladeshi cricket fans, i even support their team when they are not playing pakistan. Its my way of trying to make amends of what happened.

Please don't use tragedies for political point winning, thanks.

 

[topspin]

Pakistan's soldiers committed abhorrent war crimes and it is appalling to see that this is brushed under the carpet in our society.

The OP does well to highlight this but it doesn't take long for him to lose all credibility, as in a later post he demands for compensation to be paid to Bangladesh. Yet again he exposes his hypocrisy and double standards.

I think it was two weeks ago, when the OP called England "the greatest country on Earth". But given his love affair with the country, would he ever demand for the UK Government to reimburse the subcontinent (including Pakistan) for all the misery they had caused during the time of the British Empire? I didn't think so.

I have known people from all walks of life: far-left, far-right and those somewhere in between. We all like to focus our attention to the far-right (such as the BJP and Islamphobes in the West), but the OP epitomises why the far-left are just as harmful to our society and this is evident by his demands for compensation to be paid regardless of what cost it comes to Pakistan's financial health.

My advice to the OP is simple, do not shift goal posts for different countries just to suit your narrative.

 

[imrankhannsu]

The army who were supposed to protect their own women turned out to be the perpetrators. There are no two ways about it.

I feel ashamed!

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What I have found with miandadrules is that he plays the poster, rather than dealing with the post.

We all do it to some extent, but it becomes tiresome when it starts to deflect from the purpose of the thread.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Why dont people talk about the fact that Mujib won an election, fair and square. Yet he was denied the PM post.

If Pakistan Army wouldnot have falled for the blackmail of ZAB, all this wouldnot have come to pass.

If memory serves me right, Mujib had 160 plus seats and a simple majority while ZAB had only 85-90 seats. Yet ZAB was able to prevail over the establishment.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Why dont people talk about the fact that Mujib won an election, fair and square. Yet he was denied the PM post.

If Pakistan Army wouldnot have falled for the blackmail of ZAB, all this wouldnot have come to pass.

If memory serves me right, Mujib had 160 plus seats and a simple majority while ZAB had only 85-90 seats. Yet ZAB was able to prevail over the establishment.

People did talk about it, you would still get many articles about it written almost half a century later, and the Pakistan govt still carries scars to this day. It was a shameful chain of events.

 

[Saj]

Ive never met a single Bangladeshi who has ever mentioned this. I would go further and say those who have spoken of history have said to me they are closer to Pakistan than India and always will be. Not sure what type of Bangladeshis you have spoken to.

I've obviously spoken with Bangladeshis who you haven't.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I've obviously spoken with Bangladeshis who you haven't.

Clearly but where they UK British Bangladeshis or those from Bangaldesh?

Bangladeshis and Pakistanis in the UK mix reguarly esp in mosques and I've never read of any issues due between them over 1971.

 

[Pakpak]

Clearly but where they UK British Bangladeshis or those from Bangaldesh?

Bangladeshis and Pakistanis in the UK mix reguarly esp in mosques and I've never read of any issues due between them over 1971.

Very true. I have had friends in UK in the past from Bangladesh, they never ever have any issue with us.

 

[srh]

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/nov/05/bangladesh-1970s-camp-survivors-speak-out

Wonderful to see the foreign media highlighting our harrowing past. We are guilty of committing arguably the worst genocide in the modern history of the subcontinent, and no amount of crocodile tears over J&K can remove the stains of a very revolting chapter in our dark history.

horrible; this is biggest stain on Pakistan. I think it should be part of history lessons in school/college/university so we will always remember it and never allow anybody to repeat it on anyone.

 

[warcry]

There is no doubt that the Bangladeshi side committed war crimes too. That is for them to deal with.

What we are responsible are the crimes that we commit, or those that are committed in our name.

and we have not committed any crime, then therefore, there is no problem.

There is a narrative apparently bangladesh is doing very well better economically. generally such talks of genocide and reparations are only made to distract the populace from the poor performance of the government, you know like in india, pakistan is made into a boogeyman everytime there are polls.

same thing in little india.

boo hoo pakistan did this 50 years ago killed 60 gorrilion and raped 6 pentiillion , we never went to court because we never had any evidence and made up the stats like a a day after independence, please notice my pain to save india and change the narrative from kashmir, because apparently what pakistan is alleged to have done, justifies indias HOLOCAST in Kashmir and justifies the concentration camps in assam

 

[Saj]

Clearly but where they UK British Bangladeshis or those from Bangaldesh?

Bangladeshis and Pakistanis in the UK mix reguarly esp in mosques and I've never read of any issues due between them over 1971.

Both.

Some 1st generation immigrants and others who are 2nd generation.

 

[rockyboy2018]

However, Pakistan is the pillar of Islam and Pakistanis have a special relationship with Allah only. The same thing they did with the only Nobel prize winner Pakistan had ever produced who actually declined other nationalities for Pakistan.

When you get food on your plate without working for it how would people know the value of it?

It was the case with East Pakistan. When you go outside Pakistan and how how the rest of the woild is operating and then you have a look at how Pakistanis are operating in Pakistan. The final conclusion is: Pakistanis are the only enemies of Pakistan. The rest of the world has far better things to do with their time and to make their respective countries progressive.

 

[Captain caveman]

Why dont people talk about the fact that Mujib won an election, fair and square. Yet he was denied the PM post.

If Pakistan Army wouldnot have falled for the blackmail of ZAB, all this wouldnot have come to pass.

If memory serves me right, Mujib had 160 plus seats and a simple majority while ZAB had only 85-90 seats. Yet ZAB was able to prevail over the establishment.

The awami league with mujib did win the election of 1970, winning all 160 parlamentary seats allocated to the province of east pakistan. However, the awarmi league did not win a single seat in the four western provinces of pakistan. Furthermore, it was found that mujib and his party had boken the 'legal framework order' which was the basis of this first time democratic election in pakistan. The order was introduced when the 5 provinces of pakistan were declared and required the acceptance of one united islamic country . However , it was established that mujib and his awarmi league party had been meeting high level indians officials continuously, since 1962, seeking indian aid for independence of east pakistan and india had complied with these requests.
So basically, mujib and his awarmi league party had committed treason, so mujib and his awarmi league party were declared unfit to govern pakistan.

East pakistan were treated incredibly generously, by pakistan, given 160 parliament seats out of 300. Even though east pakistan had only one popular political party - the awarmi league.
Whereas , the 4 western provinces were given only 140 parliamentary seats, even though there were several popular political parties - PPP and several differenr versions of the muslim league.
Therefore, it was known beforehand that the east pakistan province would win the elections and president yahya khan was adviced to change the parliamentary seats allocation to 60 seats per province, but refused, and insisted the seats should be allocated according to the population of each province and as east pakistan had a larger population than the combined 4 provinces of western pakistan, they were allocated 160 seats out of 300.
So, it was known, a foregone conclusion that east pakistan would win the election and president yahya had no problems with that(as he would be running the country no matter who won the election) but it was the treasonous activities of mujib and the awarmi league party which lead to them being disqualified from claiming office. Mujib, immediately revealed his and his party true colours , by declaring independence for east pakistan.

Hope this sheds some light on your query.

 

[mustang]

The awami league with mujib did win the election of 1970, winning all 160 parlamentary seats allocated to the province of east pakistan. However, the awarmi league did not win a single seat in the four western provinces of pakistan. Furthermore, it was found that mujib and his party had boken the 'legal framework order' which was the basis of this first time democratic election in pakistan. The order was introduced when the 5 provinces of pakistan were declared and required the acceptance of one united islamic country . However , it was established that mujib and his awarmi league party had been meeting high level indians officials continuously, since 1962, seeking indian aid for independence of east pakistan and india had complied with these requests.
So basically, mujib and his awarmi league party had committed treason, so mujib and his awarmi league party were declared unfit to govern pakistan.

East pakistan were treated incredibly generously, by pakistan, given 160 parliament seats out of 300. Even though east pakistan had only one popular political party - the awarmi league.
Whereas , the 4 western provinces were given only 140 parliamentary seats, even though there were several popular political parties - PPP and several differenr versions of the muslim league.
Therefore, it was known beforehand that the east pakistan province would win the elections and president yahya khan was adviced to change the parliamentary seats allocation to 60 seats per province, but refused, and insisted the seats should be allocated according to the population of each province and as east pakistan had a larger population than the combined 4 provinces of western pakistan, they were allocated 160 seats out of 300.
So, it was known, a foregone conclusion that east pakistan would win the election and president yahya had no problems with that(as he would be running the country no matter who won the election) but it was the treasonous activities of mujib and the awarmi league party which lead to them being disqualified from claiming office. Mujib, immediately revealed his and his party true colours , by declaring independence for east pakistan.

Hope this sheds some light on your query.

Comment for the part in blue above - I doubt if there is any extra generosity from West Pakistan in giving 160/300 seats if it is based on population. Seats for representatives is based on population of the target areas in any functional democracy, right?

 

[Tiger96]

The awami league with mujib did win the election of 1970, winning all 160 parlamentary seats allocated to the province of east pakistan. However, the awarmi league did not win a single seat in the four western provinces of pakistan. Furthermore, it was found that mujib and his party had boken the 'legal framework order' which was the basis of this first time democratic election in pakistan. The order was introduced when the 5 provinces of pakistan were declared and required the acceptance of one united islamic country . However , it was established that mujib and his awarmi league party had been meeting high level indians officials continuously, since 1962, seeking indian aid for independence of east pakistan and india had complied with these requests.
So basically, mujib and his awarmi league party had committed treason, so mujib and his awarmi league party were declared unfit to govern pakistan.

East pakistan were treated incredibly generously, by pakistan, given 160 parliament seats out of 300. Even though east pakistan had only one popular political party - the awarmi league.
Whereas , the 4 western provinces were given only 140 parliamentary seats, even though there were several popular political parties - PPP and several differenr versions of the muslim league.
Therefore, it was known beforehand that the east pakistan province would win the elections and president yahya khan was adviced to change the parliamentary seats allocation to 60 seats per province, but refused, and insisted the seats should be allocated according to the population of each province and as east pakistan had a larger population than the combined 4 provinces of western pakistan, they were allocated 160 seats out of 300.
So, it was known, a foregone conclusion that east pakistan would win the election and president yahya had no problems with that(as he would be running the country no matter who won the election) but it was the treasonous activities of mujib and the awarmi league party which lead to them being disqualified from claiming office. Mujib, immediately revealed his and his party true colours , by declaring independence for east pakistan.

Hope this sheds some light on your query.

Yeah this sheds some light on why it was fine to deny Mujib the right to rule the country... Gotta Say Pakistanis have justification for nearly everything... Just accuse Mujib of being an Indian agent and justify disrespecting the mandate of the people of East Pakistan. And when the genocide of Bengalis is mentioned, just counter it by fabricating an even Bigger Genocide of Poor Biharis by Mukti Bahini. Offcourse, the Pakistan State and its Army are angels while the Bengalis and their leader was a traitor.