What's new

"We're confident in our pace attack—Shaheen, Naseem, and Haris are among the best": Aaqib Javed

Cpt. Rishwat said:
Don't really see what Aqib can do about it anyway. He has to defend his bowlers as the team coach ( or whatever he is) but he can't go magically turn them into intelligent bowlers.
Click to expand...
Same thing is happening with england likes of archer and wood going faster to boundaries so pace is all overrated you need smartness like mohammed amir had
 
WT20 21, Wt20 22, Asia Cup 23, WC23, WT20 24, CT25

That's 6x tournament these 5 seniors have played and result is zilch.

Babar
Rizwan
SSA
Rauf
Naseem
 
Pakistan is afraid of doing experiments in bilaterals like other teams. They don't mind dropping a series or two in quest of identifying bench players. Look at Breezke. He is not even in the squad for SA. He would totally walk into Pakistan side.
 
Aaqib is delusional. Shaheen and Haris have been with him and Qalandars for nearly a decade and they've obviously got used to each other and made a lot of money together.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Pakistan is afraid of doing experiments in bilaterals like other teams. They don't mind dropping a series or two in quest of identifying bench players. Look at Breezke. He is not even in the squad for SA. He would totally walk into Pakistan side.
Click to expand...
Everyone comments on different things but to me this right here has been the greatest cause for the downfall of Pak cricket in the last 5 years. Absolutely no experimentation whatsoever, which has led to no bench strength, so much so that when peak Naseem got injured before WC'23, we had to suddenly call on Hassan Ali to fill his boots. We are seeing the same core after numerous failed tournaments, 5 years later, because of this.

We had one Afg series where we tried to experiment and PCB panicked and brought back all the same players again for the series against NZ B side. It takes time, something these bozos are not willing to take, but at the expense of failure after failure
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Don't really see what Aqib can do about it anyway. He has to defend his bowlers as the team coach ( or whatever he is) but he can't go magically turn them into intelligent bowlers.
Click to expand...
I know this is a thread about the pace trio but I just mean about Aqib's overall performance, it cannot be excused simply because we won a series against England because he suggested the most obvious pitch updates.

Regarding these bowlers, yes he can't magically turn them into intelligent bowlers but can he not advise them on their consistent errors that they haven't learned from for 4 years now? Is he just sitting and watching them and blindly calling for their selection and playing every game as they bowl toothlessly and predictably? Aqib is a pacer and a qualified coach. I'm not expecting to see magical new skills, but rather better temperament, bowling strategy, and aggressiveness.

At the same time, I also don't expect these bowlers to listen and learn diligently. In which case, they need to be booted.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Pakistan is afraid of doing experiments in bilaterals like other teams. They don't mind dropping a series or two in quest of identifying bench players. Look at Breezke. He is not even in the squad for SA. He would totally walk into Pakistan side.
Click to expand...

Tbh because other teams rarely plays their full eleven against Pakistan, it is unclear where Pakistan stands against full strength big 4 teams. It gives a false sense of quality and optimism which comes crashing down when our players hang with the big boys in the ICC events.

Pakistan hardly plays test cricket and is ranked at the bottom of the rankings in the format and test cricket is the only format where every team plays their full strength team which tells you where Pakistan's so called best players really stand in world cricket.
 
hafizexpress said:
I know this is a thread about the pace trio but I just mean about Aqib's overall performance, it cannot be excused simply because we won a series against England because he suggested the most obvious pitch updates.

Regarding these bowlers, yes he can't magically turn them into intelligent bowlers but can he not advise them on their consistent errors that they haven't learned from for 4 years now? Is he just sitting and watching them and blindly calling for their selection and playing every game as they bowl toothlessly and predictably? Aqib is a pacer and a qualified coach. I'm not expecting to see magical new skills, but rather better temperament, bowling strategy, and aggressiveness.

At the same time, I also don't expect these bowlers to listen and learn diligently. In which case, they need to be booted.
Click to expand...

He could advise these bowlers until the cows come home, it won't stop Shaheen and Rauf from spraying both sides of the wicket. Neither will it put some heart or agression into bowlers like Naseem or Hasnain.

Best he could do is ditch these guys altogether and go for a different combo, maybe Bilal Afridi or Muhammad Ali with Abbas to use the new ball. No magic answers though, those guys will have their own issues, but maybe worth a try.
 
The CT 2025 loss was expected by almost all knowledgeable cricket fans.
However, I’d like to share my theory.
I believe some fans memory is still stuck in the 90s era. In their minds, they think they still have Waqar, Wasim, or Akhtar playing for them. They unknowingly assume that every Pakistan bowler since that time is of the same quality and capable of defending 150 runs. They seem to believe that similar magical bowlers are still emerging from every street in Pakistan, and all the PCB needs to do is pick them. They refuse to acknowledge the reality that those were once in 50 years type of talent.

Another misconception is that only bowlers who bowl above 150 kph deserve wickets. What people forget is that India has bowlers who consistently bowl at 140 to 145 kph, and the difference of just 8 to 5 kph doesn’t matter much when it comes to Pakistan batters. For Pakistani batters, a bowler bowling at 140 kph is equal to facing 150 kph bowler, given their scared batting mindset, lack of power hitting skills, and tuk tuk attitude.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
He could advise these bowlers until the cows come home, it won't stop Shaheen and Rauf from spraying both sides of the wicket. Neither will it put some heart or agression into bowlers like Naseem or Hasnain.

Best he could do is ditch these guys altogether and go for a different combo, maybe Bilal Afridi or Muhammad Ali with Abbas to use the new ball. No magic answers though, those guys will have their own issues, but maybe worth a try.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what we've needed to do for a long time now my friend. I mean it gets to a point where you gotta recognize something isn't working. Other pacers should have been tried long ago. We have not even been a competitive side let alone a top side for a long long time now. No teams have magic answers, but they experiment and rebuild and find their answers. We might not be world beaters for a long time but we will at least be able to say we didn't remain losers with the same 6 players for 6 years. We are reaching that by the way
 
Savak said:
Tbh because other teams rarely plays their full eleven against Pakistan, it is unclear where Pakistan stands against full strength big 4 teams. It gives a false sense of quality and optimism which comes crashing down when our players hang with the big boys in the ICC events.

Pakistan hardly plays test cricket and is ranked at the bottom of the rankings in the format and test cricket is the only format where every team plays their full strength team which tells you where Pakistan's so called best players really stand in world cricket.
Click to expand...
You could do that in T20 atleast.

Last 2 years pace bowlers representation (min 300 balls)

Srilanka 51 ODIs

Madushanka 25
Liyanage 23
Rajitha 18
Asitha Fernando 15
Kumara 15

Bangladesh 43 ODIs

FIz 27
Taskin 27
Shoriful 26
Hasan 17

New zealand 38 ODIs

Henry 24
Boult 15
Ferguson 12
O Rourke 11
Duffy 8
Milne 8

India 37 ODIs

Siraj 23
SHami 18
Bumrah 17
Thakur 13
Pandya 20

Australia 36 ODIs

Hazlewood 22
Abbott 20
Starc 20
Cummins 15

Pakistan 36 ODIs

Shaheen 32
Haris Rauf 30
Naseem 20


You see the percentage of pak bowlers compared to others?
 
These generation of cricketers are the biggest beneficiaries of social media and the rubbish "Tum jeeto ya haaro, humain tum se pyaar hai". They seriously deserve the treatment from the fans, public, PCB and politicians which our players in the 90's used to receive.

Someone mentioned an interesting suggestion i.e. no Pakistani player should have the right to get platinum PSL contracts and if the international stars signed up are better than the Pakistani players then they should be getting the platinum pays. If the likes of Babar, Shaheen, Naseem, Shadab, Rauf and co don't like it, they can try their luck in some other league and quit the PSL altogether.

For how long will we over pay our players way above their actual market value?
 
I think we should preserve with Naseem. He can bowl well and he shows some intelligence when required with the bat. I'm aware batting isn't his primary role but it shows that he has some cricketing sense.
 
Bowling looked toothless barring abrar. Literally didn’t know where the wicket would come from regardless of which pacer bowled.
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Pakistan is afraid of doing experiments in bilaterals like other teams. They don't mind dropping a series or two in quest of identifying bench players. Look at Breezke. He is not even in the squad for SA. He would totally walk into Pakistan side.
Click to expand...
It's easy to say but when there's so much instability then PCB Chairman, captain, coach and selectors are only looking to save their seat and are reluctant to experiment too much.

We played our fringe players for a random T20 series vs Afghanistan in 2023, lost, and received a heap of criticism.

The usual suspects then returned to play New Zealand B team for a home T20 series the following month.
 
Savak said:
Tbh because other teams rarely plays their full eleven against Pakistan, it is unclear where Pakistan stands against full strength big 4 teams. It gives a false sense of quality and optimism which comes crashing down when our players hang with the big boys in the ICC events.

Pakistan hardly plays test cricket and is ranked at the bottom of the rankings in the format and test cricket is the only format where every team plays their full strength team which tells you where Pakistan's so called best players really stand in world cricket.
Click to expand...
Then how did pak whitewashed south africa and beat australia in Australia stop your agenda and admit it pak should have never dropped sufiyan irfan saim would have solved all these problems
 
Markhor said:
It's easy to say but when there's so much instability then PCB Chairman, captain, coach and selectors are only looking to save their seat and are reluctant to experiment too much.

We played our fringe players for a random T20 series vs Afghanistan in 2023, lost, and received a heap of criticism.

The usual suspects then returned to play New Zealand B team for a home T20 series the following month.
Click to expand...
Nobody should receive criticism for losing T20 series. If Pakistan doesn't create competitive environment regardless of how mediocre the players are there won't be any quest for improvement.
 
Aqib_mustafa said:
Then how did pak whitewashed south africa and beat australia in Australia stop your agenda and admit it pak should have never dropped sufiyan irfan saim would have solved all these problems
Click to expand...

Different conditions. The conditions in Australia and South Africa suited Pakistan's pace bowlers which significantly reduced the pressure on the batting line who had to chase par totals. The injection of fresh youth in Irfan Niazi, Suffiyan Muqeem, Jahandad also gave the team a fresh leash of life.

Pakistani pacers become useless when there is nothing in the pitch for them. They don't have the bowling IQ to keep it tight, the discipline to bowl to their fields and look to create pressure via economy and just go searching for glory balls. Shaheen, Rauf, Naseem have been playing since 2018 and they still bowl like novices.
 
Aqib_mustafa said:
Then how did pak whitewashed south africa and beat australia in Australia stop your agenda and admit it pak should have never dropped sufiyan irfan saim would have solved all these problems
Click to expand...
SA C team bro
What else
Aus B team
 
This is the performance of this legendary Pace-Trio and it has been a norm for months now.

VeFL1lK.jpeg
 
Bazid Khan, while speaking on a show on a local sports TV channel:

"I feel that, whatever the case may be, maybe they don’t have outside help, maybe the development isn't there, but these three fast bowlers have become stubborn. Naseem Shah still bowls with the same length and style as when he first arrived. Shaheen Shah Afridi's bowling approach hasn't changed either, and Haris Rauf has also been doing the same thing since he came in."

"If you don’t involve yourself in international cricket’s evolving trends, you are basically going backwards because the opposition already knows what kind of bowling you are going to deliver. Many people say Haris Rauf is great because he doesn’t bowl no-balls, but he bowls from the middle of the crease. If he bowled from further ahead, wouldn’t his pace increase? It could, but he hasn’t tried."
 
Savak said:
Different conditions. The conditions in Australia and South Africa suited Pakistan's pace bowlers which significantly reduced the pressure on the batting line who had to chase par totals. The injection of fresh youth in Irfan Niazi, Suffiyan Muqeem, Jahandad also gave the team a fresh leash of life.

Pakistani pacers become useless when there is nothing in the pitch for them. They don't have the bowling IQ to keep it tight, the discipline to bowl to their fields and look to create pressure via economy and just go searching for glory balls. Shaheen, Rauf, Naseem have been playing since 2018 and they still bowl like novices.
Click to expand...
Also if you look at the actual stats

In SA ODI series

Afridi - 7 wickets in 3 match, average 23, economy 6.5, strike rate 21.4.
Naseem - 5 wickets in 3 match, average 28, economy 6, strike rate 28.
Rauf - Played only 2 match, no wickets, went for 75 runs in 15 overs at economy of 5

In AUS ODI series
Both Rauf and Afridi did great (average around 12) and topped the wicket chart
But Naseem had an average of 31, economy of 6 and strike rate of 32 even on these helpful wicket.

So only Afridi did well across both series, Naseem was very poor and Rauf inconsistent.
 
Red ball bowling built stamina and skills these guys avoid red ball bowling like it’s a plague there is a reason at death they go for million as they are already knackered
 
If PCB goes ahead with Shan Masood's suggestion of making every track a turning track in domestic, Pace bowling will die in Pakistan.
 
Oflate With the exception of Amir , Pakistan bowlers were always rubbish in these ICC events. But somehow i kept seeing this narrative "World's best fast bowling unit" from the fans.

Last 10 years fast bowlers performance against non minnows in CT & WOrld cup, (min 500 balls)

Screenshot-2025-02-26-232118.jpg
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Oflate With the exception of Amir , Pakistan bowlers were always rubbish in these ICC events. But somehow i kept seeing this narrative "World's best fast bowling unit" from the fans.

Last 10 years fast bowlers performance against non minnows in CT & WOrld cup, (min 500 balls)

Screenshot-2025-02-26-232118.jpg
Click to expand...
If you are just looking Economy in Odis average matters probably a bit more then economy but yeah apart from Amir and Shaheen rest have been bad especially Rauf
 
Xoib said:
If you are just looking Economy in Odis average matters probably a bit more then economy but yeah apart from Amir and Shaheen rest have been bad especially Rauf
Click to expand...
I removed two more minnows from the last 10 year list. Afghanistan/Bangladesh. Check the numbers now. This time i am using average to sort. Shaheen's average shoots up as he bullied Bangladesh to boost his stat. Also his ER jumps to 6.50.

Screenshot-2025-02-26-233539.jpg
 
jnaveen1980 said:
I removed two more minnows from the last 10 year list. Afghanistan/Bangladesh. Check the numbers now. This time i am using average to sort. Shaheen's average shoots up as he bullied Bangladesh to boost his stat. Also his ER jumps to 6.50.

Screenshot-2025-02-26-233539.jpg
Click to expand...
Bangladesh and Afghanistan don’t need to be removed especially Afghanistan as they are constantly top performing side in ICC events
 
Xoib said:
Bangladesh and Afghanistan don’t need to be removed especially Afghanistan as they are constantly top performing side in ICC events
Click to expand...
If we use 10 year window you have to remove as they were not nearly as good 10 years back.
 
Bangladesh’s 2015-2020 was actually a decent much better then now as Tamim, Shakib, Mushfiq, Mahmudullah all in their peak years . Afghanistan post 2018 has always been a notch about be minnows and currently are a top 5
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

The Bald Eagle
[PICTURE] "This team will do great in the Champions Trophy": Aaqib Javed
Replies
64
Views
1K
BouncerGuy
BouncerGuy
BouncerGuy
"It should be just as tough to beat Pakistan at home as it is for the Pakistan team when they go to Australia or South Africa": Aaqib Javed
Replies
11
Views
334
pakfan54588
pakfan54588
BouncerGuy
"We're hurt by the result, hurt as a nation, but the beauty of the game is it always gives you another chance": Shan Masood
Replies
75
Views
2K
rpant_gabba
rpant_gabba
The Bald Eagle
[EXCLUSIVE] "Pace alone won't make you a great bowler": Ian Pont
Replies
17
Views
681
Shoaib Akhtar 100 MPH
S
FearlessRoar
“If Shaheen Shah Afridi was playing instead of Mohammad Abbas, you wouldn't have gotten so close to winning the match in South Africa": Aaqib Javed
Replies
1
Views
199
BouncerGuy
BouncerGuy
Back
Top