Were the 1965 elections the turning point in Pakistan's political history?

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Miss Fatima Jinnah was immensely popular among the East Pakistanis and Urdu speaking community and thanks to the system of elections at that time she could not win despite more than 55 percent of the Pakistani population voting in her favour ...after those elections relations between the two wings were never the same which led to the 1971 saga

In my honest opinion,1965 elections played a more crucial role in breaking Pakistan and it changed our public forever we were never the same public after that...then came the 1965 war(which could have been avoided) that made us lose our economic growth that was highest in south asia at that time followed by the six points of Mujib which could have been avoided had East Pakistan got their demand in 1965 through Miss Jinnah's reforms..
We all know what ZAB and Zia did later on..
Have your say..

 

[Black Zero]

It was unnatural alliance...
Its a miracle that it took so long.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

It was unnatural alliance...
Its a miracle that it took so long.

Yes but it was not impossible..had EP been with us our economic growth would have been double
Our growth was ahead of India despite India having better infrastructure,factories and offices from the british

 

[Black Zero]

Yes but it was not impossible..had EP been with us our economic growth would have been double
Our growth was ahead of India despite India having better infrastructure,factories and offices from the british

from 48 to 56, when Urdu was made the sole national language of country, and then killed students of Dhaka university...pretty much BD was created in 48 by that decision....

 

[CricketCartoons]

from 48 to 56, when Urdu was made the sole national language of country, and then killed students of Dhaka university...pretty much BD was created in 48 by that decision....

This is the gift of Bangladesh to the world..pride and preservation of their mother tongue. International Mother Language Day is celebrated because of the Bengali Language movement. I wish more people cared about their mother tongue.

 

[Black Zero]

This is the gift of Bangladesh to the world..pride and preservation of their mother tongue. International Mother Language Day is celebrated because of the Bengali Language movement. I wish more people cared about their mother tongue.

I am punjabi but cannot read or write Punjabi.

Urdu is killing local languages in Pakistan.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

from 48 to 56, when Urdu was made the sole national language of country, and then killed students of Dhaka university...pretty much BD was created in 48 by that decision....

Yes but Bengali was the national language of Pakistan according to both our constitutions solving that issue...

It was used for later political gains by both East and West politicians
We even had national songs in Bengali..

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

I am punjabi but cannot read or write Punjabi.

Urdu is killing local languages in Pakistan.

Who stopped you?
Every state has the right to make their state language compulsory or not
I am urdu speaking sindhi and in my state learning Sindhi is compulsory and I can read and write in Sindhi
Blame it on your state..do not drag urdu into this..and stick to the topic of the thread

 

[Black Zero]

Yes but Bengali was the national language of Pakistan according to both our constitutions solving that issue...

It was used for later political gains by both East and West politicians
We even had national songs in Bengali..

from Wiki:

In 1948, the Government of the Dominion of Pakistan ordained Urdu as the sole national language, sparking extensive protests among the Bengali-speaking majority of East Bengal. Facing rising sectarian tensions and mass discontent with the new law, the government outlawed public meetings and rallies. The students of the University of Dhaka and other political activists defied the law and organised a protest on 21 February 1952. The movement reached its climax when police killed student demonstrators on that day. The deaths provoked widespread civil unrest. After years of conflict, the central government relented and granted official status to the Bengali language in 1956. In 1999, UNESCO declared 21 February as International Mother Language Day,[1] in tribute to the Language Movement and the ethno-linguistic rights of people around the world.

The Language Movement catalysed the assertion of Bengali national identity in East Bengal and later East Pakistan, and became a forerunner to Bengali nationalist movements, including the 6-Point Movement and subsequently the Bangladesh Liberation War and Indo-Pakistani War of 1971.

Your suggestion regarding election 65 in OP is without any merit and frankly it sucks.

 

[Black Zero]

Who stopped you?
Every state has the right to make their state language compulsory or not
I am urdu speaking sindhi and in my state learning Sindhi is compulsory and I can read and write in Sindhi
Blame it on your state..do not drag urdu into this..and stick to the topic of the thread

No, I would blame the people who made Urdu the national language.
Regarding the topic of thread, I believe I have already summed it up.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

from Wiki:



Your suggestion regarding election 65 in OP is without any merit and frankly it sucks.

This is ridiculous..I have already accepted that it was an issue that got solved later on..what more do you want?
It became the national language and the issue was solved
People from both the wings loved each other..the stadiums were full in Dhaka when Pakistan used to play in test matches in the early 1960s...i would have agreed with you if bengali never got accepted as the national language but your argument is idiotic..plus you expect me to believe a wiki based article?how old are you?

 

[Saeed]

Yes but Bengali was the national language of Pakistan according to both our constitutions solving that issue...

It was used for later political gains by both East and West politicians
We even had national songs in Bengali..

Issues were probably much more deeper, at least according to this passge they were.

Almost immediately after its birth, Pakistan tried to weaken the power of its majority through exclusionary employment policies that used language as a tool. East Pakistan, where the majority of Pakistanis lived, was told that Urdu, which no one spoke there but which was widely spoken in West Pakistan, was the sole national language. That meant that Bengalis would have no access to jobs, the media or policymaking.

The language movement began almost immediately in response, and Dhaka observed its first day-long strike in the summer of 1948. The middle class, being the most anxious about jobs, led the movement. It intensified in 1952, when police fired on agitating Dhaka University students, killing four. The fallen students were hailed as martyrs and language took centre stage in the politics of East Pakistan.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/08/haunted-unification-bangladeshi-view-partition-170813093154943.html

Probably would have delayed the invitable for some more time. Geographically the union made no sense since it was separated by an enemy country. Both countries should gone their separate ways in 1947, it would have prevented the unnecessary destruction.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Issues were probably much more deeper, at least according to this passge they were.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2017/08/haunted-unification-bangladeshi-view-partition-170813093154943.html

Probably would have delayed the invitable for some more time. Geographically the union made no sense since it was separated by an enemy country. Both countries should gone their separate ways in 1947, it would have prevented the unnecessary destruction.

Yes i agree with you it didn't and there were much deeper issues what I am saying is that Pakistan changed forever after 1965
It was a victory of dictatorship over democracy
War over peace and unity

Pakistan and Imdia could have avioded the 1965 war and East Pakistan separation could have been avoided or atleast done in a peaceful manner

 

[Saeed]

Yes i agree with you it didn't and there were much deeper issues what I am saying is that Pakistan changed forever after 1965
It was a victory of dictatorship over democracy
War over peace and unity

Pakistan and Imdia could have avioded the 1965 war and East Pakistan separation could have been avoided or atleast done in a peaceful manner

Agreed. We wasted so many resources and opportunities that could have been used to make us more stronger. Well past is past, we can only learn from our bad experiences and try not to repeat them.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I am punjabi but cannot read or write Punjabi.

Urdu is killing local languages in Pakistan.

It is not English or Urdu which is killing our languages, but our apathy and shame towards our mother tongues. Our generation has to reverse the damage to our culture. My fellow indians can quote milton and keats and mark twain, but have hardly read even one book in their mother tongue. [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] The cultural slavery to english has basically reduced those who are not articulate in english, but good at their mother tongues, as backwards. I grew up feeling inferior about my language and even now I get the vibe of being low class by my fellow indians, when i cannot speak english as fluently as they do.

 

[www787]

I am punjabi but cannot read or write Punjabi.

Urdu is killing local languages in Pakistan.

How is that anyone fault but yours?

 

[Black Zero]

This is ridiculous..I have already accepted that it was an issue that got solved later on..what more do you want?
It became the national language and the issue was solved
People from both the wings loved each other..the stadiums were full in Dhaka when Pakistan used to play in test matches in the early 1960s...i would have agreed with you if bengali never got accepted as the national language but your argument is idiotic..plus you expect me to believe a wiki based article?how old are you?

only thing ridiculous is your original post.

 

[Black Zero]

How is that anyone fault but yours?

Actually I never met a single person in my life who could read or write punjabi fluently.
so it's not an individual issue.

 

[www787]

Actually I never met a single person in my life who could read or write punjabi fluently.
so it's not an individual issue.

But it’s just a language that you can learn. So, why blame Urdu?
You live in Canada, every DESI Canadian has met someone who speak fluent Punjabi. There are more Punjabi in brampton than rest of North America.

 

[Black Zero]

But it’s just a language that you can learn. So, why blame Urdu?
You live in Canada, every DESI Canadian has met someone who speak fluent Punjabi. There are more Punjabi in brampton than rest of North America.

I blame urdu cause it was a compulsory subject in school.

I said about reading and writing. ..not about speaking/singing.

What a shame that superior languages are disappearing cause some not so smart politicians forced an inferior language upon pople.

 

[Snak3eye5]

It is not English or Urdu which is killing our languages, but our apathy and shame towards our mother tongues. Our generation has to reverse the damage to our culture. My fellow indians can quote milton and keats and mark twain, but have hardly read even one book in their mother tongue. [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] The cultural slavery to english has basically reduced those who are not articulate in english, but good at their mother tongues, as backwards. I grew up feeling inferior about my language and even now I get the vibe of being low class by my fellow indians, when i cannot speak english as fluently as they do.

Its not like the Indians are doing it on purpose. Indians have like 22 official languages and to communicate amongst themselves, in my mind the government made the best decision back in 1947 to have english as an official language along with the other 22. Even Hindi which is the largest of the languages is known to like what 40% of the people ?.

Now, it would be unfair to force 60% of Indians to learn Hindi or any other Indian language that is not their mother tongue? And if you're going to really teach a person a new language, why not start with English - something that can connect you with the rest of the world. I do see you're point though. One shouldn't loose their original identity. But i always wonder what if the indian government did force a one language policy, like its neighbours did, i would think India would have been screwed for sure. It most likely would have split up into 22 different countries or more for sure, kinda like what happened with Bangladesh. Had Pakistan not adopted Urdu as the national language, I can't see Bangladesh splitting apart..

 

[CricketCartoons]

Its not like the Indians are doing it on purpose. Indians have like 22 official languages and to communicate amongst themselves, in my mind the government made the best decision back in 1947 to have english as an official language along with the other 22. Even Hindi which is the largest of the languages is known to like what 40% of the people ?.

Now, it would be unfair to force 60% of Indians to learn Hindi or any other Indian language that is not their mother tongue? And if you're going to really teach a person a new language, why not start with English - something that can connect you with the rest of the world. I do see you're point though. One shouldn't loose their original identity. But i always wonder what if the indian government did force a one language policy, like its neighbours did, i would think India would have been screwed for sure. It most likely would have split up into 22 different countries or more for sure, kinda like what happened with Bangladesh. Had Pakistan not adopted Urdu as the national language, I can't see Bangladesh splitting apart..

Please show me where I mentioned Hindi, or asked one language to be imposed. You better go troll elsewhere.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

It is not English or Urdu which is killing our languages, but our apathy and shame towards our mother tongues. Our generation has to reverse the damage to our culture. My fellow indians can quote milton and keats and mark twain, but have hardly read even one book in their mother tongue. [MENTION=137142]JaDed[/MENTION] The cultural slavery to english has basically reduced those who are not articulate in english, but good at their mother tongues, as backwards. I grew up feeling inferior about my language and even now I get the vibe of being low class by my fellow indians, when i cannot speak english as fluently as they do.

Exactly very good post brother

 

[Pakpak]

Exactly very good post brother

Why argue with Black Zero? Put him on ignore like I have a while back, he has already admitted a while ago that he delibrately posts nonsense under the guise of being a devil's advocate.

 

[Bleedgreen4ever]

Why argue with Black Zero? Put him on ignore like I have a while back, he has already admitted a while ago that he delibrately posts nonsense under the guise of being a devil's advocate.

Hahaha thanks for the advice

 

[Markhor]

The 1965 election was a disgrace and a farce as Ayub's administrative machinery systematically rigged the odds against Fatima Jinnah. The 1965 war and the perceived sellout at Taskhent was the beginning of Ayub's downfall. However I don't think that was the biggest cause of the loss of the Eastern Wing. One of the biggest reasons was the readiness of the West Pakistani establishment to dismiss calls for provincial automony as "secessionist" as well as a tendency to treat the Bengalis as "kaala aadmi".

Mujib was not asking for independence in his Six Points but complete autonomy within a federal arrangement in the spirit of the Lahore resolution. But the idea of the centre being beholden to the federating units was anathema to a military establishment insistent on a strong centre. And some of Mujib's points implied a confederal rather than federal system.

Ayesha Jalal in Struggle for Pakistan argues "Mujib's conception of a free Bengali nation was not incompatible with something less than a fully separate and sovereign state". What's often forgotten is that Mujib with his absolute majority could've easily bulldozed his constitution without regard for West Pakistani opinion, but Mujib, in January 1971 in conversation with Governor Admiral Ahsan, said "I am the majority leader of all Pakistan. I cannot ignore the interests of West Pakistan. I am not only responsible to the people of East and West Pakistan but also to world opinion. I shall do everything on democratic principles."

The one point where I do sympathise with Bhutto is this. Awami League wanted West Pakistan to assume responsibility for the majority of the federal govt's external debt. East Pakistan was to contribute only 24% of the centre's costs and that was to be set against "reparations" due from West Pakistan. Therefore the costs would be nearly entirely borne by the Western Wing.

If any West Pakistani, let alone a Sindhi, agreed to that it would be political suicide. The PPP itself was divided and would've been opposed especially in Punjab where Bhutto received support in 1970 from military constituencies. However Bhutto's incendiary rhetoric certainly inflamed Bengali sentiments.

 

[saadibaba]

Fatima Jinnah's defeat in the 1965 Presidential elections was only part of a series of injustices and manipulations by the deep state that have led us to our current predicament. After all in 1958, martial law was imposed by the premier Iskandar Mirza mainly to maintain his hegemony on power and Ayub Khan was made Chief Martial Law Administrator. As things go, Ayub Khan ended up robbing Iskandar Mirza of all his powers and set up a military government in the country.

The 1965 election was similar to the referendum called by Musharraf in 2002 to allow him to continue as President for another 5 years. In 1965, the opposition parties coalesced around Fatima Jinnah and she appeared to have mass support but still ended up losing the elections. In 2002, the main opposition parties quite rightly boycotted the election, perhaps learning from history plus leaders of both major political parties were in exile.

As Mark Twain have famously said, "History does not repeat itself, but it rhymes". In case of Pakistan, our history seems to be stuck on a never ending carousel going round in round in a circle with no end in sight.