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What can Westerners do to distance themselves from state perpetrators of terror and genocide?

Is it April fools day? :))

I accept this challenge. Please start a thread as this is off topic on here. I put foward America is the biggest terrorist state in history as it has used more weapons of mass destrution than any power before and due to it's political and military policies it has murdered more people than any nation before , maybe apart from the British but they are no longer a world power.

How many do you think Genghis Khan killed?And that's one person,if we are to consider his blood and dynasty it would reach in different number,for now just him.
 
How many do you think Genghis Khan killed?And that's one person,if we are to consider his blood and dynasty it would reach in different number,for now just him.

Death tolls ascribed to the Mongols as a whole are highly exaggerated, historians like René Grousset have shown they were not the "savages" we think, and chroniclers in medieval times used to distort the truth for a lot of reasons. In fact the Ilkhanid dynasty even launched a Golden Age in Persia, and that's why till today many Iranians see Mongols more favourably than Arabs.

It'll be too complex and boring to go there lengthy, but Western apologists of imperialism always come up with the "everyone has been cruel blablabla" which is not only untrue (Indian civilization is a good case), but a total travesty of truth : before modern capitalism, imperialists just wanted to extent their territories, not even ruling over them directly (Alexander's satrapies, Arabs' generals, etc) ; why Greeks and Persians are never bashed by Indians ? Because they were "vintage imperialists".

But more importantly, it was not about economic exploitation ; that's what modern capitalism brought, and that's what Europeans (British, French, Dutch, ...) did. When Mughals built monuments, they didn't do it in Uzbekistan, but in India, which became the world's second-largest economy until the 18th century (it was a little behind China - not too much -, but let's not forget the population difference) ; in nearly 200 years of British control, on the other hand, the GDP/capita of India didn't MOVE AT ALL (it'll be hard to imagine something like that in contemporary terms... just keep in mind even war torn countries like Afghanistan have their GDP/capita growing.)

If the British "only" killed Indians through famines ("they didn't have to breed like rabbits", said the favourite personality of the British), it'll be "fine", if you're a bit cynical ; but they did worse : they de-industrialized, destroyed the traditional education system, the traditional societal system, ... unleashing poverty, etc

"Vintage imperialism" inaugurated by the Assyrians in 8-6th century BC was like slapping you ; European imperialism was slapping you, stealing you (guess which is THE most successful company in the history of the world ? The Dutch East India Company, which in modern terms would be worth over 7 TRILLION of dollars) and then cutting off your arms/legs so you can't move again.

All imperialisms are morally reprehensible (and Indians can pride themselves in the fact that India might be the only major civilization which didn't indulge in such exercise), but what Europeans did was unseen before in terms of brutality as well as perversity.

The US is like the natural conclusion of European colonialism in such regards : it's the ONLY nation in HISTORY which has ONLY been targeting CIVILIANS (Vietnamese farmers becoming communists or Afghan everyday Joe becoming Talibans are not "soldiers"), with napalm and God knows what.
 
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I totally agree with you. I hate our foriegn policy as my taxes are being used but I know we have a process in place where we can disagree and speak up against this even though we can't stop it. Islam says if you see an injustice change it, if you can't change it speak up against it , if you don't speak up against it condemn it in your heart but this is the least of faith. Our Lord doesn't want to us to go and hurt innocent people in the country we live in, he knows our limitations and will even know if just condemn it in our heart. But not everyone understands the religion, they use their emotions to fuel hatred towards others which then leads to mindless violence. Foreign policy is no excuse to hurt anyone because then you no different but we also cannot ignore this is a factor in radicalsing people, who I believe to be vulnerable, have mental issues or are just filled with hatred which they use to play this out. It's not easy seeing pictures or videos of innocent children being burnt or being born with defects due to chemical weapons, this does create a lot of anger but it's how you channel this anger which is the key.

I've never met anyone who has said they will attack innocents as revenge and if I was to meet anyone like this I would explain the above. The problem is when a government is hell bent on using violence against civilians there will sadly be those who will use this to justify their actions. If this policy wasn't in place it would be difficult for them to do so but perhaps they would indulge in some other types of violent crimes. Bad people will always exist in all races and ethnicities, we need to cut off the fuel along which challenges their emotions. I really believe religion has little to do with their actions as firstly the religion doesn't call for them to take part in such actions no matter how much it's twisted Islam is very clear to even a minor taking innocent lives is strongly prohibited. If a fully atheist nation was bombed, people with such beliefs would also indulge in injustice as revenge.

That's a good point about channelling that anger positively, in the past I use to get angry in light of these attacks and use to question the hypocrisy of selective outrage and just being angry with this idea that we're all demonised and it would be the first thought in my head I use to forget everything else. Now I've realised with time and experience is that such rhetoric involving foreign policy (which by the way is no denying influential when it comes to extremism) tends to distance people from our society because they are constantly being fed the "world against us" "they hate us because we're the greatest and most supreme" "they are killing all your brothers and sisters away from home" narratives tend to back fire and poisons a mind even when one doesn't intend it.

I find that in such situations muslims should stand together with their british brothers and sisters, point out that we're in this together, display the great constituents of your theology and reassure them in that manner; it's not a situation where we have to speak up or be held accountable for anything but it's a great opportunity in fact to show folk what Islam is all about through your love, understanding and tolerance.

If we start arguing or getting angry then it's just not productive, we both know that foreign policy is unlikely to change for a very very very long time; but we can help by taking small steps within the confines of things which are in our control and that is why I think theology is so important and am not even as religious as you; you're probably a way better muslim then me :)) and a good role model for all of us on PP. My relatives are mostly sufi and I've been influenced by them, not on their level but try to expand my knowledge when am able to and pray etc but when I've been down and out it has been tough because you lose the plot in all aspects but I've still believe in the ones of god; La ilaha illa-llah muhammadur-rasull-llah.
 
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">'The group, dubbed the “Ooh R A” ...' Westcountry news agencies having a good time sending this stuff up the line <a href="https://t.co/wdf8dWbw0L">pic.twitter.com/wdf8dWbw0L</a></p>— Graeme Demianyk (@GraemeDemianyk) <a href="https://twitter.com/GraemeDemianyk/status/884081937362583552">9 July 2017</a></blockquote>
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Guess nobody has heard about this White Terrorist getting sentenced in London this week?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40725261

Marine Ciarán Maxwell 'made pipe bombs to attack police'

A Royal Marine from County Antrim made 14 pipe bombs which were to be used by dissident republicans to attack police.
A court hearing to decide how long Ciarán Maxwell will serve in prison is taking place at the Old Bailey.
The court heard that four of the pipe bombs were used in Northern Ireland - and two detonated.
In February, Maxwell, 31, admitted a number of offences, including bomb-making and storing stolen military weapons.
The Larne man also pleaded guilty to drugs and fraud charges. The sentencing hearing is expected to take up to three days.
Maxwell is not in court, but is appearing via video link from Woodhill Prison in Milton Keynes.
The Marine who turned to terror
Timeline of Irish dissident activity
Ciarán Maxwell: Full list of charges
According to the charge details, he had a stash of explosives in 12 purpose-built hides in England and Northern Ireland.
DNA evidence found at one of the County Antrim hides led to Maxwell's arrest.
'Our day will come'
On Wednesday, the court heard that documents found on a memory card of Maxwell's included a Mujahideen explosives handbook and the IRA's Green Book - or rule book.
It also contained images of Larne police station marked manually with a blast radius graphic.
The card had maps, plans and lists of potential targets, as well as images of an adapted PSNI pass card and items of PSNI uniform, addresses of police officers, names of military staff, details of an MI5 member and of loyalists.
Maxwell also bought chemicals and components and went on to manufacture explosives.
Ciarán MaxwellImage copyrightMETROPOLITAN POLICE
Image caption
Maxwell pleaded guilty to a number of terrorism offences
His wi-fi password was "tiocfaidh1" - a derivation of the Irish republican phrase "tiocfaidh ar la", or "our day will come".
Maxwell told police he had taken a member of the Continuity IRA to a hide where he had stashed pipe bombs in Northern Ireland.
The court was told the man he took to the hide was Niall Lehd, convicted in 2014 of possession of an explosive substance with intent to endanger life.
Maxwell had handwritten "to-do lists" mentioning "targets, dummy runs and recces" and a number of towns in Northern Ireland.
The exact details were redacted by the court, but the targets included a Territorial Army centre and Ballylumford Power Station.
There was also reference to a loyalist group, the need to notify news agencies, while under the heading "Easter leave tasks" were the words "test pipe bomb and car bomb".
Booby-trapped torch
In one of his hides, Maxwell placed a modified booby-trapped torch which, when armed, would explode if turned on.
Maxwell lived in Exminster, County Devon, and was based with 40 Commando in Taunton, Somerset. He never served in Northern Ireland.
Uncovered arms
Image caption
Explosive ingredients were found buried in blue barrels
He was arrested last August and a search near Exeter found hides with a range of explosive substances, as well as ammunition, weapons and tools for making bombs.
Along with the 14 pipe bombs, the court heard Maxwell also stashed:
Two anti-personnel directional mines
Two explosively formed projectiles (EFPs)
29 complete explosive firing systems
33 initiators (part of a detonator for explosives), including two military initiators
13 military "igniter safety fuze electric" initiators
Three fully-constructed improvised detonators
Other component parts for IEDs [improvised explosive devices]
Other materials and chemicals to make explosives
A replica handgun and ammunition
On Wednesday, prosecutor Richard Whittam QC told the court: "Across 14 of the locations involved in the investigation, Mr Maxwell had in his possession, or had constructed, 14 pipe bombs... four have been deployed in Northern Ireland.
"It is our case that some of the items inevitably must have been taken from the UK to Northern Ireland by this defendant."
Pipe bombs that were found in the forestImage copyrightPSNI
Image caption
Pipe bombs and parts for making explosive devices made up part of the haul
He added: "It may be that, when travelling between England and the UK, bearing in mind the identity cards he would have had, and his position, his passage would have been easier than others to take items with him."
The court heard dissident republicans have carried out more than 160 terrorist attacks since 2010, including the deployment of improvised explosive devices (IEDs) such as pipe bombs.
Mr Whittam said: "Whilst attacks are mainly directed at members of the police, military and prison service, the nature of the attacks leaves members of the public at risk."
The court heard that Maxwell "appeared shocked" when he was arrested.
During interview he told police he "got in over his head and didn't know how to get away". He was interviewed 22 times, remaining silent during the first seven.
After his arrest, drugs were found in locker at the camp, including herbal cannabis, cannabis resin, and hallucinogenic drugs DMT and LSD.
The Old Bailey was told that of the four pipe bombs constructed by Maxwell were used in Northern Ireland in the past year - in Belfast, Armagh and Carnlough. Only the device in Armagh detonated.
Another pipe bomb made by Maxwell exploded in Larne in 2013.
Two of the pipe bombs were used before Maxwell was arrested, and two after.
'Significant finds'
In March 2016, police said bomb-making parts had been found in barrels hidden in a wooded area in Carnfunnock County Park in County Antrim.
Two months later, another "terrorist hide" was found in Capanagh Forest, also near Larne.
Police described it as one of the most significant arms finds in recent years.
Of the pipe bombs found at Capanagh, Wednesday's hearing was told: "The grooves in the pipe bombs would aid fragmentation increasing the potential for the devices to cause injury.
"Depending on the amount of explosive used, the devices could cause serious injury and possibly death to anyone in close proximity at the time of detonation."
Ciaran MaxwellImage copyrightFACEBOOK
Image caption
Maxwell, from Larne, County Antrim, was based with 40 Commando in Somerset
Of particular concern to security chiefs was the discovery of military grade anti-personnel mines.
Parts for making explosive devices also made up part of the haul.
Their serial numbers revealed they had been taken from the Royal Marines base in Somerset where Maxwell was based.
 
Yes. You would hardly know it from the news though. No front page headlines no leading the news bulletins...
 
Probably a white guy, so we don't call it "terrorism"

Did you read the article,

A serving member of the British armed forces has pleaded guilty to preparing for a terrorist attack.
Royal Marine Ciaran Maxwell, 31, admitted stashing explosives in purpose-built caches in both England and Northern Ireland, while appearing via video link at the Old Bailey today.
Maxwell, from Larne in County Antrim, admitted assisting another to commit acts of terrorism between 2011 and 2016.
He compiled a library of terrorism documents, including instructions on how to make explosives and tactics used by terrorist organisations.
He also had maps, plans and lists of potential targets for a terrorist attack and images of an adapted Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) pass card and a PSNI uniform.
Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/03/royal...planning-terror-attack-6425731/#ixzz4o2Fp02db

He was charged for terrorist activities.
 
Probably a white guy, so we don't call it "terrorism"

This comment is getting a bit old now. White people who commit terrorist acts are now being consistently referred to as terrorists.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40923489

Charlottesville: Who is suspect James Alex Fields Jr?

The group's website declares "America is under attack" and says: "If current trends continue, White Americans will be a minority in the nation they built. It's time to take a stand."
They released a statement on Twitter denying James Fields had been a member.
He has been charged with one count of second degree murder, three counts of malicious wounding and one count of failing to stop after a hit and run.

Republican senator Ted Cruz called on the Department of Justice to prosecute the suspect for domestic terrorism.

The FBI confirmed they had opened a civil rights investigation into the incident.
 
Not hearing enough of this outright condemnation from the 'White'/Western liberal community

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">‘You will have to shovel our bodies into the oven, too’: Dad of Charlottesville neo-Nazi disowns him <a href="https://t.co/SBIUnYtKqs">https://t.co/SBIUnYtKqs</a></p>— Raw Story (@RawStory) <a href="https://twitter.com/RawStory/status/897104260969758721">14 August 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The House Homeland Security Committee is set to discuss the "domestic terrorism" from white supremacists in Charlottesville w/ the FBI. <a href="https://t.co/Sm3HhCFWd0">pic.twitter.com/Sm3HhCFWd0</a></p>— AJ+ (@ajplus) <a href="https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/897964553648054272">16 August 2017</a></blockquote>
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Today a 'right wing commentator' Katie Hopkins who is employed by a leading UK Broadcaster LBC Radio called for a 'Final Solution' for 'Muslims'

This is less than 100 years after Hitler tried to exterminate the Jewish people in Europe and termed it is 'Final Solution'?

Thankfully many Westerners do speak out and we don't condemn the 'silent majority' who don't but what can be done to root out the sense of entitlement which has led to centuries of destructive colonialism, imperialism and genocide ?

it's game of thrones season, i literally read westerners as westeros and was like, what kinda thread this is ...
 
Not hearing enough of this outright condemnation from the 'White'/Western liberal community

Even conservatives Bush 41 and Bush 43 have piled in. Theresa May's lack of unequivocal condemnation is disappointing, though.
 
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">'The group, dubbed the “Ooh R A” ...' Westcountry news agencies having a good time sending this stuff up the line <a href="https://t.co/wdf8dWbw0L">pic.twitter.com/wdf8dWbw0L</a></p>— Graeme Demianyk (@GraemeDemianyk) <a href="https://twitter.com/GraemeDemianyk/status/884081937362583552">9 July 2017</a></blockquote>
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As someone who lives in Cornwall now, I can tell you that the so called CRA is a laughing stock. We're more worried about seagulls swiping our pasties.

Cornish don't say ooo-arrr by the way, that's Somerset.
 
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MI5 complicity in imperialistic foreign policy (and subsequent domestic terrorism blowback) is incredible

But the media/political silence on it is further indictment of the Establishment
 
Good insight into White domestic terrorists

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Good thread this

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">32/ Not sure why a mass shooting inspired by hatred of women doesn’t qualify as terrorism… unless, maybe, we don’t respect women as people?</p>— Charles Clymer&#55356;&#57331;️*&#55356;&#57096; (@cmclymer) <a href="https://twitter.com/cmclymer/status/927761476718399488?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">7 November 2017</a></blockquote>
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