What constitutes a native citizen?

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Continuing from a discussion arising in the H&M thread regarding the racist blurb re monkeys.

Several references were made to the distinction between native and non-native Brits. This could apply to many multicultural countries so you can apply it where you think applicable.

I'll start with Britain. What constitutes a native Brit?

 

[Buffet]

Born in country.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Continuing from a discussion arising in the H&M thread regarding the racist blurb re monkeys.

Several references were made to the distinction between native and non-native Brits. This could apply to many multicultural countries so you can apply it where you think applicable.

I'll start with Britain. What constitutes a native Brit?

What do you see yourself as? a non native or a native Brit.

It will be interesting to see everyone's opinions, and many of the posters are ethnic minorities in the country they live in.

 

[srh]

Continuing from a discussion arising in the H&M thread regarding the racist blurb re monkeys.

Several references were made to the distinction between native and non-native Brits. This could apply to many multicultural countries so you can apply it where you think applicable.

I'll start with Britain. What constitutes a native Brit?

Captain you were born in Britain so you should be called a native Brit. If anybody call you non-native then you have my blessings to snap.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

What do you see yourself as? a non native or a native Brit.

It will be interesting to see everyone's opinions, and many of the posters are ethnic minorities in the country they live in.

Native Brit.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Native Brit.

Ok, that was funny.

 

[CricketCartoons]

My idea of native is someone who is indigenous to the land. For example, the Celts, the Saxons, the Belgians etc. The Pakistanis, the Bangladeshis, the Indians, the Caribbeans are not indigenous to UK.

That being said, they all deserve the same rights if they are legal citizens.

 

[TM Riddle]

A community which has been present in the particular region for sufficient time period (centuries) and thus impacting the local culture in such a way that its practices and traditions have been imbibed in it and vice versa.
Unfortunately Captain you don't qualify!

 

[troodon]

To me your family should be living in that country for at least 200-300 yrs. that should make you 100% native.

Otherwise, yoi will always been seen as the son of an immigrant.

Honestly even after hundreds of years, if you do not look like a Brit, people will continue to think you are a 1sr generation immigrant. Hence mixing with locals plays an important part of assimilation.

 

[TM Riddle]

My idea of native is someone who is indigenous to the land. For example, the Celts, the Saxons, the Belgians etc. The Pakistanis, the Bangladeshis, the Indians, the Caribbeans are not indigenous to UK.

That being said, they all deserve the same rights if they are legal citizens.

What about communities such as Iranis and Parsis who are not exactly 'indigenous' and yet have integrated themselves in such a manner that its hard to differentiate them from the locals?

 

[Ocelot]

The one who follows the cultural values of the land they're living in.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

A community which has been present in the particular region for sufficient time period (centuries) and thus impacting the local culture in such a way that its practices and traditions have been imbibed in it and vice versa.
Unfortunately Captain you don't qualify!

Maybe I should move to Bradford then.

 

[CricketCartoons]

What about communities such as Iranis and Parsis who are not exactly 'indigenous' and yet have integrated themselves in such a manner that its hard to differentiate them from the locals?

I will put such communities between the true natives who are indigenous, and the other extreme of desis like Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.

 

[Matlab kuch bhi]

Any person born and brought up in the cultural environment of that country is a native, race should not be taken into consideration.

 

[TM Riddle]

Maybe I should move to Bradford then.

Bradford is merely a small part of a larger entity which is Britain.
Unless in future the city manages to carve out a separate identity for itself and announce secession from UK changing it's name to Bradfordistan in the process , I don't see how your move would help you in any way.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Any person born and brought up in the cultural environment of that country is a native, race should not be taken into consideration.

yes, bobby jindal and nikki haley are native americans then.

 

[Matlab kuch bhi]

yes, bobby jindal and nikki haley are native americans then.

Not the native Americans as a race you might be thinking, natives as in being completely in harmony with American cultural values.

 

[Pakistanian]

I don't believe there's such a thing as a native citizen cause countries are artifical creations. However I do believe in a "native" ethnicity, people belonging to to a racial/cultural group that has been indigenous to the land for thousands of years.

 

[CricketCartoons]

Not the native Americans as a race you might be thinking, natives as in being completely in harmony with American cultural values.

That's very vague and cannot be held as a reasonable criteria.

Those desis who are desperate to declare themselves as natives suffer from Bobby Jindal Syndrome. Being first born generation to immigrant parents, they don't like it that they are still associated and identified with a third world country. hence the desperation to be tagged as natives.

Usually those who suffer from this syndrome can be easily identified when they boast about living in a first world civilized country and distancing themselves from their native land where their parents came from. You won't see such desperation from the true natives, as they are sure about their place and comfortable in their skins.

 

[KingKhanWC]

To me your family should be living in that country for at least 200-300 yrs. that should make you 100% native.

Otherwise, yoi will always been seen as the son of an immigrant.

Honestly even after hundreds of years, if you do not look like a Brit, people will continue to think you are a 1sr generation immigrant. Hence mixing with locals plays an important part of assimilation.

This is not the definition of a native.

It's simply someone who is born in a particular country is a native of that country. It's daft to put time lengths on this. According to you NO WHITE Australian is a native of Australia even if their great grandparents were born there.

 

[Slog]

My personal rule is to be there atleast 2 generations. (as in your parents to have been born in the land as well)

 

[CricketCartoons]

This is not the definition of a native.

It's simply someone who is born in a particular country is a native of that country. It's daft to put time lengths on this. According to you NO WHITE Australian is a native of Australia even if their great grandparents were born there.

Do you think Bobby Jindal and Nikki Haley are native Americans? You will say yes, but do you think?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Do you think Bobby Jindal and Nikki Haley are native Americans? You will say yes, but do you think?

If they were born in America, yes.

You could add coconut to native if you like for these clowns. As a proud Indian you must despise these two?

 

[R3verse Swing]

A native is a bit more than a person born in a country. It has more to do with DNA strands.

 

[CricketCartoons]

If they were born in America, yes.

You could add coconut to native if you like for these clowns. As a proud Indian you must despise these two?

Nothing to despise them for. They are victims of their situation that they want to be seen as true americans, not just actions but even looks, because the other option is to be identified by association to a third world country. Which is why I sympathize with those desis desperate to distance themselves from the country of their origins and act like the native folks.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Nothing to despise them for. They are victims of their situation that they want to be seen as true americans, not just actions but even looks, because the other option is to be identified by association to a third world country. Which is why I sympathize with those desis desperate to distance themselves from the country of their origins and act like the native folks.

What is so bad being associated with a third world country?

 

[CricketCartoons]

What is so bad being associated with a third world country?

The embarrassment that comes when your white colleagues treat you as if you represent that third world country and the idea that you are still not one of them despite having the same passport..these things can make one desperate to distance themselves from the country their parents came from and seek another identity, no matter how fake.

 

[Matlab kuch bhi]

That's very vague and cannot be held as a reasonable criteria.

Those desis who are desperate to declare themselves as natives suffer from Bobby Jindal Syndrome. Being first born generation to immigrant parents, they don't like it that they are still associated and identified with a third world country. hence the desperation to be tagged as natives.

Usually those who suffer from this syndrome can be easily identified when they boast about living in a first world civilized country and distancing themselves from their native land where their parents came from. You won't see such desperation from the true natives, as they are sure about their place and comfortable in their skins.

I'm not aware of Bobby Jindal syndrome as such right now and I'm yet to come across a self loathing desi. Some of my relatives have been here in US since last 20 years, went to top schools and have families now, they have retained their Indianness while adapting very well to the culture here but their children are completely American and are not desperate at all to prove themselves as natives.

Well, you never know I may come across a person who ashamed of his/her cultural heritage as you've explained.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

A native is a bit more than a person born in a country. It has more to do with DNA strands.

Rubbish. A native Brit is more than skin pigmentation, it is also culture and mindset. Consider my credentials:

* Immaculate command of the language
* Disdain for immigrants especially from the subcontinent
* Horror at the loss of British architecture in Southall and Wembley
* Agreement with EDL and forum atheists that Islam is the root cause of raping of minors in third world countries
* Hilarity at the cringeworthy attempts at movies made in Bollywood
* Feeling intimidated by the confidence of religious and arrogant Pakistanis

 

[R3verse Swing]

Rubbish. A native Brit is more than skin pigmentation, it is also culture and mindset. Consider my credentials:

* Immaculate command of the language
* Disdain for immigrants especially from the subcontinent
* Horror at the loss of British architecture in Southall and Wembley
* Agreement with EDL and forum atheists that Islam is the root cause of raping of minors in third world countries
* Hilarity at the cringeworthy attempts at movies made in Bollywood
* Feeling intimidated by the confidence of religious and arrogant Pakistanis

It has every thing to do with skin pigmentation.

A non-white born in UK walking down the street. People see him. What's the first thought? He's an immigrant because he is not white. That is until said *native* opens his mouth and speaks.

 

[James]

I object to the term before it even gets off the ground. The absurdity of nativism is exposed in this thread where according to some people I would be a native (English born in England), according to others I would be an even greater native than many others (White as well) - yet to others I would be no native at all (mother’s family from Ireland). A purely subjective term.

Citizenship and nationality are objective. They are much more important than indigenous status.

 

[R3verse Swing]

What is so bad being associated with a third world country?

Question is who and how is *3rd World* defined.

People in the East consider the West 3rd world, and vice versa.

 

[CricketCartoons]

I object to the term before it even gets off the ground. The absurdity of nativism is exposed in this thread where according to some people I would be a native (English born in England), according to others I would be an even greater native than many others (White as well) - yet to others I would be no native at all (mother’s family from Ireland). A purely subjective term.

Citizenship and nationality are objective. They are much more important than indigenous status.

And this is why UK is the nation of choice for immigrants, as the natives welcome them, some even patronize them that they are also natives, and being indigenous is not important.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Question is who and how is *3rd World* defined.

People in the East consider the West 3rd world, and vice versa.

Developing countries. Ive never heard anyone from the East consider nations such as the UK, Germany or US as third world. Im not sure which type of people you converse with.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Developing countries. Ive never heard anyone from the East consider nations such as the UK, Germany or US as third world. Im not sure which type of people you converse with.

Define developing.

Which nation on this Earth do other nations aspire to be?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Define developing.

Which nation on this Earth do other nations aspire to be?

The UN body has a detailed definition of such nations. See World Economic Situation
and Prospects.

They dont have to aspire to be like anyone, they only have to aspire to remove poverty, develop infrastructure etc.

 

[R3verse Swing]

The UN body has a detailed definition of such nations. See World Economic Situation
and Prospects.

They dont have to aspire to be like anyone, they only have to aspire to remove poverty, develop infrastructure etc.

World Economic Situation is related to economic growth. In the West, economic growth is through debt expansion. There is more debt in the West than at any time in history. Debt is neither wealth nor prosperity. In the West poverty is simply kicked down the road by borrowing from the future.

I speak to people in Saudi Arabia and UAE, they laugh at the West.

 

[Pakpak]

Rubbish. A native Brit is more than skin pigmentation, it is also culture and mindset. Consider my credentials:

* Immaculate command of the language
* Disdain for immigrants especially from the subcontinent
* Horror at the loss of British architecture in Southall and Wembley
* Agreement with EDL and forum atheists that Islam is the root cause of raping of minors in third world countries
* Hilarity at the cringeworthy attempts at movies made in Bollywood
* Feeling intimidated by the confidence of religious and arrogant Pakistanis

Its good you agree with forum atheists, shows you have brain cells, albeit severely limited in number.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Define developing.

Which nation on this Earth do other nations aspire to be?

Why don't you tell us which nation you are residing in and we can compare like for like.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Why don't you tell us which nation you are residing in and we can compare like for like.

Irrelevant.

The point was if one nation is defined as 3rd world then it is due to a comparison to a 1st/Developed world. Or put simply, 3rd world developing into a 1st world - aka - aspiring to.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Irrelevant.

The point was if one nation is defined as 3rd world then it is due to a comparison to a 1st/Developed world. Or put simply, 3rd world developing into a 1st world - aka - aspiring to.

Ok, we'll bear that in mind. Why don't you tell us anyway, it won't make your point any less relevant surely?

 

[R3verse Swing]

Ok, we'll bear that in mind. Why don't you tell us anyway, it won't make your point any less relevant surely?

Daaan saath bruv.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Daaan saath bruv.

A fellow native Brit then. Can I ask are you of Pakistani lineage or Indian - and of course this doesn't matter one jot as we are all natives of the soil at the end of the day.

 

[gani999]

Rubbish. A native Brit is more than skin pigmentation, it is also culture and mindset. Consider my credentials:

* Immaculate command of the language
* Disdain for immigrants especially from the subcontinent
* Horror at the loss of British architecture in Southall and Wembley
* Agreement with EDL and forum atheists that Islam is the root cause of raping of minors in third world countries
* Hilarity at the cringeworthy attempts at movies made in Bollywood
* Feeling intimidated by the confidence of religious and arrogant Pakistanis

So disdain for immigrants from the sub continent and dislike for Bollywood are essential qualifications for being a native Brit and a necessary part of the British mindset, according to you?

Some notions of what second generation immigrants have about the culture of their adopted homelands can be hilarious indeed.

 

[CricketCartoons]

So disdain for immigrants from the sub continent and dislike for Bollywood are essential qualifications for being a native Brit and a necessary part of the British mindset, according to you?

Some notions of what second generation immigrants have about the culture of their adopted homelands can be hilarious indeed.

The disdain is hilarious when their parents or grandparents were immigrants themselves. This is the desi mentality, where once they board a train, they don't like more people boarding in the next station, conveniently forgetting their own origins.

 

[R3verse Swing]

A fellow native Brit then. Can I ask are you of Pakistani lineage or Indian - and of course this doesn't matter one jot as we are all natives of the soil at the end of the day.

Pakistan.

 

[IMMY69]

Rubbish. A native Brit is more than skin pigmentation, it is also culture and mindset. Consider my credentials:

* Immaculate command of the language
* Disdain for immigrants especially from the subcontinent
* Horror at the loss of British architecture in Southall and Wembley
* Agreement with EDL and forum atheists that Islam is the root cause of raping of minors in third world countries
* Hilarity at the cringeworthy attempts at movies made in Bollywoodk
* Feeling intimidated by the confidence of religious and arrogant Pakistanis

My god i’m not sure if you’re just bored and are trying to troll everyone or are suffering from some inferiority complex...

 

[Syed1]

If you live in a white country and your skin is anything other than white/black you will always be asked "where are you from" or "what is your background"... doesn't matter how many generations you have been there.

 

[R3verse Swing]

If you live in a white country and your skin is anything other than white/black you will always be asked "where are you from" or "what is your background"... doesn't matter how many generations you have been there.

Spot on.

 

[Gilly]

If you live in a white country and your skin is anything other than white/black you will always be asked "where are you from" or "what is your background"... doesn't matter how many generations you have been there.

That applies to all immigrants, when white South Africans talk and you hear their accent they are asked where are they from, same applies to Americans or Scots or Irish. It is natural for people that notice something different to them to enquire about that difference. Most people are proud of where they came from and will not take offence but be happy to speak about their heritage. My wife's father is an immigrant from Italy and she is often asked where she is from and she is happy to talk about her heritage.

Does anyone think it is offensive to enquire about someone's background and if so why?.