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What could have caused Air India Flight AI171 to crash?

What in your view was the reason for the Air India crash?


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BouncerGuy

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What could have caused Air India plane to crash in 30 seconds?

What exactly happened to Flight AI171 between Ahmedabad and London Gatwick on Thursday afternoon will only be revealed by a detailed investigation, but the moments after take-off can be the most challenging in aviation.

Indian investigators will be joined by experts from the US and UK in the coming days, as authorities attempt to establish what caused the Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner to crash shortly after take-off just 1.5km (0.9 miles) from the runway at Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel International Airport.

It marks the first time a 787-8 Dreamliner has suffered a fatal crash since it entered commercial service in 2011. Thursday's disaster killed 241 people onboard and more on the ground.

The BBC has spoken to aviation experts as well as pilots based in India - some of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity - who regularly fly 787-8s out of India's international airports to find out what factors might have caused the plane to slam into residential buildings in the heart of Ahmedabad just moments into its flight.

Struggled to gain altitude

The 787-8 Dreamliner was flown by Captain Sumeet Sabharwal and his co-pilot Clive Kundar. The two were highly experienced, with more than 9,000 combined flying hours. Mr Sabharwal having earned over 22-years expertise as a commercial airline pilot.

The plane was carrying 242 people as it taxied along the runway at Ahmedabad International Airport on Thursday afternoon. The jet took off at 13:39 local time (08:09 GMT), operator Air India said.

India's Home Affairs Minister Amit Shah said the plane was carrying 100 tonnes of fuel - practically a full load - as it climbed out of Ahmedabad.

Almost immediately after take-off the cockpit gave a mayday call, India's aviation regulator said. No response was given by the aircraft after that. It's unclear what prompted the mayday call, but the flight's sole survivor has told Indian media that he heard a loud bang as the plane struggled to gain altitude.

Footage authenticated by BBC Verify then showed the plane flying low over what appears to be a residential neighbourhood. The final transmitted data showed the plane reached a height of 625ft (190m). It proceeds to descend and becomes obscured by trees and buildings, before a large explosion appears on the horizon.

"There would have been no time for him to react if he lost both engines," one pilot said. CCTV footage viewed by BBC Verify showed that the plane was airborne for 30 seconds.

The plane crashed in a residential area, with images showing housing blocks heavily damaged in a densely built area which included hospitals and official buildings.

Speculation of 'very rare' double engine failure

It is almost impossible to definitively establish what caused the disaster based on videos of the plane's brief flight.

In the coming days a complex investigation involving the plane's black box - which records flight data - and an examination of debris will commence. But videos that have emerged show the plane struggling to lift off the ground, seemingly amid a lack of thrust or power.

One cause that has been speculated on by some experts is the possibility of an extremely rare double engine failure. Questions have been raised as to whether the plane had its Ram Air Turbine (RAT) deployed, an emergency back-up turbine which kicks in when main engines fail to generate power for essential systems.

Double engine failures are almost unheard of, with the most notable example being the 2009 "Miracle on the Hudson", when a US Airways Airbus A320 lost both engines to a bird strike moments after take-off from New York's LaGuardia Airport, but glided to safety.

One senior pilot told the BBC that dual engine failure could also result from fuel contamination or clogging. Aircraft engines rely on a precise fuel metering system - if that system gets blocked, it can lead to fuel starvation and engine shutdown.

Marco Chan, an ex-pilot, told BBC Verify that there isn't any evidence to suggest a double engine failure based on the available footage.

Mohan Ranganathan, an aviation expert, told the BBC that a double engine failure would be "a very, very rare incident".

Engine manufacturer GE Aerospace said it was sending a team to India to help with the investigation, while Boeing said it was offering its full support to the airline.

Bird strikes

Another possibility raised by some experts in India is a bird strike.

They occur when a plane collides with a bird and can be extremely dangerous for aircraft. In serious cases, engines can lose power if they suck in a bird, as happened in South Korea's Jeju Air disaster which killed 179 people last year.

Experts and pilots familiar with Ahmedabad airport have told the BBC that it is "notorious for birds".

"They are always around," says Mr Ranganathan, echoing what at least three Indian pilots who have flown in and out of the airport told the BBC .

Gujarat state, where Ahmedabad is located, reported 462 bird strike incidents over five years, with most occurring at Ahmedabad airport, according to Civil Aviation Ministry data tabled in Parliament in December 2023.

A Times of India report in September 2023 cited Airport Authority data noting 38 bird strikes in 2022–23 in Ahmedabad, a 35% rise over previous 12 months.

In the 2009 case, a flock of seagulls was ingested at 2,700ft – more than four times higher than the Air India flight. In this case the Indian pilots had neither the altitude nor the time to manoeuvre.

However, a senior pilot said that a bird hit is rarely catastrophic "unless it affects both engines".

Could the plane's flaps have contributed?

Three experts who spoke to BBC Verify suggested that the disaster may have occurred as the aircraft's flaps were not extended during take-off - though other pilots and analysts have challenged this.

Flaps play a vital role during take-off, helping an aircraft generate maximum lift at lower speeds.

If they're not properly extended, a fully loaded jet - carrying passengers, heavy fuel for a long-haul flight, and battling hot conditions - will struggle to lift off.

In Ahmedabad, where temperatures neared 40°C (104F) on Thursday, the thinner air would have demanded higher flap settings and greater engine thrust, one pilot told the BBC. In such conditions, even a small configuration error can have catastrophic consequences.

CCTV footage which emerged late on Thursday afternoon showed the plane taking off from Ahmedabad, struggling to achieve altitude, and then slowly descending before crashing.

But a take-off roll with retracted flaps would trigger warnings from the 787's take-off Configuration Warning System, alerting the flight crew to an unsafe configuration, according to one pilot the BBC spoke to.

Ex-pilot Mr Chan told BBC Verify that the footage that has emerged so far is too distorted to establish for sure whether the flaps were extended, but said that such an error would be "highly unusual".

"The flaps are set by pilots themselves, before take off, and there are several checklists and procedures to verify the setting," Mr Chan said. "That would point to potential human error if flaps aren't set correctly."

 
But this is BBC and factual.

Let's hear directly from Arnab and his horses:

-Turkish maintenance company: Turkey is not a friend of India so something is cooking.

-Sabotage: If drones can be hacked, why not planes. The hackers from non-friendly countries did it.

There was another piece where the one of the press mentioned something along the lines of an investigation team from UK is arriving, and before she could finish, the anchor goes...oh, the UK has 'offered' itself to help India, oh. The tone suggested implying that countries around the world are running to help India, but the fool couldn't understand how awkward it was sounding looking at the extent of what greedy negligence had just taken place which is now a 'duty' on international authorities to investigate.
 
Lone survived person from this deadly clash mentioned he heard loud sound before crashing of air India plane. It must be birds hitting plane engines…
 
THIS THREAD IS ONLY TO DISCUSS THE TECHNICAL SIDE OF THIS DISASTER.

I URGE ALL POSTERS TO STAY ON TOPIC, INSTEAD OF BRINGING PROPAGANDA STUFF HERE.
 
Request to mods to not let any illetarte clown do his agenda driven posts.Blackbox testing is the basis for any aircraft accident and clown's should know it first to post any trash.
 
This is pure speculation because this will take months, if not years to evaluate all the evidence. It’s a highly regulated industry and we wont find answers right away.

Watching the footage, there was no smoke or fire which could have pointed to problem beyond the gas turbine’s control system. The survivor mentioned the plane felt ‘stuck’ in the air and you could argue that was due to fuel starvation; however, the probably is extremely low that this would occur at the same time on both engines - like what are the chances you have an issue in both engines fuel systems at the same time? In-fact these planes are capable of flying back to base on just one engine so a single in-flight shutdown is an accepted risk.

An even lower probability is a dual engine bird strike, but that has happened before with the Hudson incident.

So for me I think it’s either of those two extremely low probability events but I haven’t looked at in much detail yet, and this is pure speculation again without being able to look at the flight data.
 
Most likely pilot error flaps extracted landing gear still out. Indians & there media history will never ever admit pilots were at fault.
 
I honestly think it was an inside job. The idea was probably to blame Pakistan, but on a call with Modi, Netanyahu probably said he’s starting a war with Iran and they could just stage another attack in future and pin it on Pakistan.
 
Pilot error.

Co pilot with 1000 odd hrs of flying experience was meant to pull the gear up, instead he pulled the flaps up.
 
This is pure speculation because this will take months, if not years to evaluate all the evidence. It’s a highly regulated industry and we wont find answers right away.

Watching the footage, there was no smoke or fire which could have pointed to problem beyond the gas turbine’s control system. The survivor mentioned the plane felt ‘stuck’ in the air and you could argue that was due to fuel starvation; however, the probably is extremely low that this would occur at the same time on both engines - like what are the chances you have an issue in both engines fuel systems at the same time? In-fact these planes are capable of flying back to base on just one engine so a single in-flight shutdown is an accepted risk.

An even lower probability is a dual engine bird strike, but that has happened before with the Hudson incident.

So for me I think it’s either of those two extremely low probability events but I haven’t looked at in much detail yet, and this is pure speculation again without being able to look at the flight data.
A bird strike would result in smoke coming out the engines, since there was no smoke I think a bird strike can be ruled out.

Contaminated fuel is a more probable theory!
 
Dual engine failure or something, quite compelling visual evidence too. Didn't have time to watch this full, so please finish whoever is interested.

 
A bird strike would result in smoke coming out the engines, since there was no smoke I think a bird strike can be ruled out.

Contaminated fuel is a more probable theory!

Possibly, it depends on the nature of the strike and to which extent the fluid systems are intercepted. The smoke is more likely in a narrow-body, if you were thinking the 737 then they have issues with oil leaks. The 787 is arguably their most reliable plane right now and while am not as familiar with the GE motors they would have still had to meet very strict bird ingestion requirements and be able to withstand the impact, so I was thinking along those lines to make sense of no smoke, but could always be wrong.

Contaminated fuel is a very good theory, I didn’t think of that! Perhaps someone should find out if Air India use highly acidic fuel, there are some operators who do, but it’s still within spec, maybe Air India put seriously dodgy fuel in which they normally wouldn’t? Acidic fuel can lead to chemical attack of key fuel system parts and accelerate pump cavitation, that’s where the fuel starvation could have occurred and explained the rare dual engine shutdown.
 
Investigators find cockpit voice recorder from crashed Air India flight

Investigators have recovered the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) from the crashed Air India flight, a key step in uncovering what caused last week's deadly accident.

The London-bound Air India aircraft, a Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, crashed soon after taking off on Thursday from the western Indian city of Ahmedabad. At least 270 people have been killed, most of them passengers.

The CVR captures audio from the cockpit, including pilot conversations, alarms and ambient sounds.

The flight data recorder (FDR), which logs crucial flight parameters like altitude, speed and engine performance, had been recovered from the debris on Friday.


 
Illetarte clown was trying to mock the educated pilot and a good man unlike him.As per reports , pilot diverted flight towards a green space and avoided hitting apartments which may have resulted in another 100's of deaths.

 
Air India says one engine on crashed plane was new

One of the engines of the Air India plane that crashed last week was new, while the other was not due for servicing until December, the airline's chairman has said.

In an interview with an Indian news channel, N Chandrasekaran said that both engines of the aircraft had "clean" histories.

"The right engine was a new engine put in March 2025. The left engine was last serviced in 2023 and due for its next maintenance check in December 2025," he told Times Now channel.

At least 270 people, most of them passengers, were killed last Thursday when AI171, a London-bound Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, crashed less than a minute after taking off from Ahmedabad airport in western India.

Investigators are now sifting through debris and decoding recorded flight data and cockpit audio - from the aircraft's black boxes which have been found - to deconstruct the flight's final moments and determine the cause of the incident.

"There are a lot of speculations and a lot of theories. But the fact that I know so far is this particular aircraft, this specific tail, AI171, has a clean history," Mr Chandrasekaran said, cautioning people against jumping to conclusions.

"I am told by all the experts that the black box and recorders will definitely tell the story. So, we just have to wait for that," he added.

Kishore Chinta, a former investigator with India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau, told the BBC that the condition of an aircraft engine is not necessarily linked to its age - particularly in the case of the Genx-1B engines used on the Boeing 787-8.

"The age of the engine has no bearing on the health of the engine, especially for the Genx-1B engines," Mr Chinta said. In other words just because an engine is new, does not necessarily mean it is healthy, or vice versa.

Unlike older models, the Genx-1B engines, which are made by GE Aerospace, don't follow a fixed overhaul or maintenance schedule. Instead, they are equipped with a system called the Full Authority Digital Engine Control or FADEC that continuously monitors engine health and performance. The decision to service or replace the engine is based on this data and physical inspections.

However, Mr Chinta pointed out that certain components of the engine, known as Life Limited Parts (LLPs), still have a fixed lifespan typically between 15,000 and 20,000 cycles.

"Every start and switch-off of the engine counts as one cycle," he explained.

While the investigation continues, Air India has also announced a 15% cut in its international operations on wide-body aircraft until mid-July as it grapples with the fallout from the crash.

In a statement issued on Wednesday, the airline said the decision was driven by "compounding circumstances" - including enhanced safety checks, increased caution by crew and ground staff and tensions in the Middle East.

Separately, the airline said that inspections have been completed on 26 of its 33 Boeing 787-8 and 787-9 aircraft, all of which have been "cleared for service".

India's aviation regulator had ordered additional safety checks on Air India's Boeing 787 fleet after the deadly crash as a "preventive measure".

The remaining aircraft are expected to be examined in the coming days, Air India said, adding that the airline's Boeing 777 fleet would also "undertake enhanced safety checks".

"The curtailments are a painful measure to take, but are necessary following a devastating event which we are still working through and an unusual combination of external events," it said.

Meanwhile some experts say the crash will likely have an impact on Air India as it tries to transform from a troubled state-owned carrier to a privately-owned company.

Tata Sons, a conglomerate which also owns big brands like Tetley Tea and Jaguar Land Rover, brought the airline - formerly India's national carrier - from the Indian government in 2022.

BBC
 
Air India says one engine on crashed plane was new

One of the engines of the Air India plane that crashed last week was new, while the other was not due for servicing until December, the airline's chairman has said.

In an interview with an Indian news channel, N Chandrasekaran said that both engines of the aircraft had "clean" histories.

"The right engine was a new engine put in March 2025. The left engine was last serviced in 2023 and due for its next maintenance check in December 2025," he told Times Now channel.

At least 270 people, most of them passengers, were killed last Thursday when AI171, a London-bound Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, crashed less than a minute after taking off from Ahmedabad airport in western India.

Investigators are now sifting through debris and decoding recorded flight data and cockpit audio - from the aircraft's black boxes which have been found - to deconstruct the flight's final moments and determine the cause of the incident.

"There are a lot of speculations and a lot of theories. But the fact that I know so far is this particular aircraft, this specific tail, AI171, has a clean history," Mr Chandrasekaran said, cautioning people against jumping to conclusions.

"I am told by all the experts that the black box and recorders will definitely tell the story. So, we just have to wait for that," he added.

Kishore Chinta, a former investigator with India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau, told the BBC that the condition of an aircraft engine is not necessarily linked to its age - particularly in the case of the Genx-1B engines used on the Boeing 787-8.

"The age of the engine has no bearing on the health of the engine, especially for the Genx-1B engines," Mr Chinta said. In other words just because an engine is new, does not necessarily mean it is healthy, or vice versa.

Unlike older models, the Genx-1B engines, which are made by GE Aerospace, don't follow a fixed overhaul or maintenance schedule. Instead, they are equipped with a system called the Full Authority Digital Engine Control or FADEC that continuously monitors engine health and performance. The decision to service or replace the engine is based on this data and physical inspections.

However, Mr Chinta pointed out that certain components of the engine, known as Life Limited Parts (LLPs), still have a fixed lifespan typically between 15,000 and 20,000 cycles.

"Every start and switch-off of the engine counts as one cycle," he explained.

While the investigation continues, Air India has also announced a 15% cut in its international operations on wide-body aircraft until mid-July as it grapples with the fallout from the crash.

In a statement issued on Wednesday, the airline said the decision was driven by "compounding circumstances" - including enhanced safety checks, increased caution by crew and ground staff and tensions in the Middle East.

Separately, the airline said that inspections have been completed on 26 of its 33 Boeing 787-8 and 787-9 aircraft, all of which have been "cleared for service".

India's aviation regulator had ordered additional safety checks on Air India's Boeing 787 fleet after the deadly crash as a "preventive measure".

The remaining aircraft are expected to be examined in the coming days, Air India said, adding that the airline's Boeing 777 fleet would also "undertake enhanced safety checks".

"The curtailments are a painful measure to take, but are necessary following a devastating event which we are still working through and an unusual combination of external events," it said.

Meanwhile some experts say the crash will likely have an impact on Air India as it tries to transform from a troubled state-owned carrier to a privately-owned company.

Tata Sons, a conglomerate which also owns big brands like Tetley Tea and Jaguar Land Rover, brought the airline - formerly India's national carrier - from the Indian government in 2022.

BBC
All folks should abandon Air Ind. One of the worst Airlines in the world even before this crash. Avoid flying it and save yourself the headache.
 
New lab, old problem: India’s new Rs 9 crore black box lab fails first big test, as govt plans to send Air India crashed plane black box to US

Just two months after inaugurating a state-of-the-art laboratory for analysing aircraft black boxes, the Indian government has decided to send the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder from the recent Air India crash to the United States for decoding. The move highlights limitations in India’s newly launched facility, which was expected to handle such critical investigations.

The black box, retrieved from the crashed Air India Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner, has been sent to the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau’s (AAIB) Digital Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder (DFDR & CVR) Laboratory in New Delhi.

In April, Union Civil Aviation Minister Ram Mohan Naidu inaugurated the DFDR & CVR Laboratory at the AAIB headquarters in New Delhi. Built with an investment of Rs 9 crore and technical support from Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), the facility was designed to recover flight data and conduct detailed crash investigations.

It aimed to meet international standards and enable India to independently analyse black boxes without sending them abroad. The lab is expected to reduce dependency on foreign agencies and improve the speed of investigations.


 
Air India says one engine on crashed plane was new

One of the engines of the Air India plane that crashed last week was new, while the other was not due for servicing until December, the airline's chairman has said.

In an interview with an Indian news channel, N Chandrasekaran said that both engines of the aircraft had "clean" histories.

"The right engine was a new engine put in March 2025. The left engine was last serviced in 2023 and due for its next maintenance check in December 2025," he told Times Now channel.

At least 270 people, most of them passengers, were killed last Thursday when AI171, a London-bound Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner, crashed less than a minute after taking off from Ahmedabad airport in western India.

Investigators are now sifting through debris and decoding recorded flight data and cockpit audio - from the aircraft's black boxes which have been found - to reconstruct the flight's final moments and determine the cause of the incident.

"There are a lot of speculations and a lot of theories. But the fact that I know so far is this particular aircraft, this specific tail, AI171, has a clean history," Mr Chandrasekaran said, cautioning people against jumping to conclusions.

"I am told by all the experts that the black box and recorders will definitely tell the story. So, we just have to wait for that," he added.

Kishore Chinta, a former investigator with India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau, told the BBC that the condition of an aircraft engine is not necessarily linked to its age - particularly in the case of the Genx-1B engines used on the Boeing 787-8.

"The age of the engine has no bearing on the health of the engine, especially for the Genx-1B engines," Mr Chinta said. In other words just because an engine is new, does not necessarily mean it is healthy, or vice versa.

Unlike older models, the Genx-1B engines, which are made by GE Aerospace, don't follow a fixed overhaul or maintenance schedule. Instead, they are equipped with a system called the Full Authority Digital Engine Control or FADEC that continuously monitors engine health and performance. The decision to service or replace the engine is based on this data and physical inspections.

However, Mr Chinta pointed out that certain components of the engine, known as Life Limited Parts (LLPs), still have a fixed lifespan typically between 15,000 and 20,000 cycles.


 
Fuel to engines of Air India plane cut off moments before crash, preliminary report finds

Fuel to the engines of the Air India plane that crashed last month appears to have cut off shortly after takeoff, a preliminary report has found.

According to the report, the "Engine 1 and Engine 2 fuel cutoff switches transitioned from RUN to CUTOFF position one after another with a time gap of one second.

"The Engine N1 and N2 began to decrease from their take-off values as the fuel supply to the engines was cut off."

There was then confusion in the cockpit. In the voice recording, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why he "cut off". The other pilot responds that he did not do so.

One of the engines was able to be restarted, but could not reverse the plane's deceleration, the report found.

No significant bird activity was observed in the vicinity of the plane's flight path, the report added.

The plane plummeted into a busy area, killing 241 passengers and 19 others on the ground while incinerating everything around it.

The report has been filed by the Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB) and is based on the initial findings of the probe, marking 30 days since the crash.


 
All signs are pointing to an intentional act by the co pilot. These are mechanical switches so a software fault can't turn them off. And there are gates so the switches can't be turned off by mistake, it has to be a conscious act
 
All signs are pointing to an intentional act by the co pilot. These are mechanical switches so a software fault can't turn them off. And there are gates so the switches can't be turned off by mistake, it has to be a conscious act
why would he do that?
 
AI171 preliminary crash report out: Both engines shut down seconds after takeoff. Pilots denied cutting fuel. RAT deployed, thrust levers idle, engines failed to relight. Crashed in 32 secs. Fuel clean. Known fuel switch flaw not inspected.
 
Just moment after AI 787 took off, fuel switch turns to cutting off.... one pilot asked another why you cut off fuel, another pilot said I didn't

Source : Sydney morning herald

It confirms it's an act of sabotage... remember Turkish company was doing maintenance of AI planes. This sabotage act may be carried out in frustration after all Indian tourists says no tourism with Turkey
 
Just moment after AI 787 took off, fuel switch turns to cutting off.... one pilot asked another why you cut off fuel, another pilot said I didn't

Source : Sydney morning herald

It confirms it's an act of sabotage... remember Turkish company was doing maintenance of AI planes. This sabotage act may be carried out in frustration after all Indian tourists says no tourism with Turkey
in a movie or a book maybe, seems like a ridiculous blame shifting. Highly doubt Turkey is that evolved in terms of tech.
 
in a movie or a book maybe, seems like a ridiculous blame shifting. Highly doubt Turkey is that evolved in terms of tech.

Don't think your read history... many such sabotage incident happened in past.... such sabotage can happen due to frustration, agony, vengeance
 
Why cockpit audio deepens the mystery of Air India crash

Investigators have uncovered a chilling discovery in the preliminary investigation into the Air India Flight 171 crash which killed 260 people in June.

Just seconds after takeoff, both the 12-year-old Boeing 787 Dreamliner's fuel-control switches abruptly moved to the "cut-off" position, starving the engines of fuel and triggering total power loss. Switching to "cut-off" is a move typically done only after landing.

The cockpit voice recording captures one pilot asking the other why he "did the cut-off", to which the person replies that he didn't. The recording doesn't clarify who said what. At the time of takeoff, the co-pilot was flying the aircraft while the captain was monitoring.

The switches were returned to their normal inflight position, triggering automatic engine relight. At the time of the crash, one engine was regaining thrust while the other had relit but had not yet recovered power.

Air India Flight 171 was airborne for less than 40 seconds before crashing into a crowded neighbourhood in the western Indian city of Ahmedabad, marking one of India's most baffling aviation disasters.

Investigators are probing the wreckage and cockpit recorders to understand what went wrong just after takeoff. The Air India flight climbed to 625 feet in clear weather before losing location data 50 seconds in, per Flightradar24. Saturday's 15-page report offers early insights.

The investigation - led by Indian authorities, with experts from Boeing, GE, Air India and Indian regulators, alongside participants from the US National Transportation Safety Board and the UK - also raises a number of questions.

Investigators say the lever-lock fuel switches are designed to prevent accidental activation - they must be pulled up to unlock before flipping, a safety feature dating back to the 1950s. Built to exacting standards, they're highly reliable. Protective guard brackets further shield them from accidental bumps.

"It would be almost impossible to pull both switches with a single movement of one hand, and this makes accidental deployment unlikely," a Canada-based air accidents investigator, who wanted to remain unnamed, told the BBC.

That's what makes the Air India case stand out.

If one of the pilots was responsible for shutting down the switches, intentionally or not, it "does beg the question: why... push the switches to the off position," Shawn Pruchnicki, a former airline accident investigator and aviation expert at Ohio State University, said.

"Was it intentional, or the result of confusion? That seems unlikely, as the pilots reported nothing unusual. In many cockpit emergencies, pilots may press the wrong buttons or make incorrect selections - but there was no indication of such a situation here, nor any discussion suggesting that the fuel switches were selected by mistake. This kind of error doesn't typically happen without some evident issue," he told the BBC.

Peter Goelz, a former managing director of the US's NTSB, echoed a similar sentiment: "The finding is very disturbing - that a pilot has shut off the fuel switch within seconds of flying."

"There's likely much more on the cockpit voice recorder than what's been shared. A lone remark like 'why did you cut off the switches' isn't enough," he said.

"The new details suggest someone in the cockpit shut those valves. The question is, who, and why? Both switches were turned off and then restarted within seconds. The voice recorder will reveal more: was the flying pilot trying to restart the engines, or the monitoring one?"

Investigators believe the cockpit voice recorder - with audio from pilot mics, radio calls and ambient cockpit sounds - holds the key to this puzzle.

"They haven't identified the voices yet, which is crucial. Typically, when the voice recorder is reviewed, people familiar with the pilots are present to help match voices. As of now, we still don't know which pilot turned the switches off and back on," said Mr Goelz.

In short, investigators say what's needed is clear voice identification, a full cockpit transcript with labelled speakers, and a thorough review of all communications from the moment the plane was pushed back from the gate to the time it crashed.

They also say this underscores the need for cockpit video recorders, as recommended by the NTSB. An over-the-shoulder view would show whose hand was on the cut-off switch.

Before boarding Flight 171, both pilots and crew passed breathalyser tests and were cleared fit to fly, the report says. The pilots, based in Mumbai, had arrived in Ahmedabad the day before the flight and had adequate rest.

But investigators are also zeroing in on what they describe is an interesting point in the report.

It says in December 2018, the US Federal Aviation Administration issued a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) highlighting that some Boeing 737 fuel control switches were installed with the locking feature disengaged.

While the issue was noted, it wasn't deemed an unsafe condition requiring an Airworthiness Directive (AD) - a legally enforceable regulation to correct unsafe conditions in a product.

The same switch design is used in Boeing 787-8 aircraft, including Air India's VT-ANB which crashed. As the SAIB was advisory, Air India did not perform the recommended inspections.

Mr Pruchnicki said he's wondering whether there was a problem with the fuel control switches.

"What does this [bit in the report] exactly mean? Does it mean that with a single flip, that switch could shut the engine off and cut the fuel supply? When the locking feature is disengaged, what exactly happens? Could the switch just flip itself to off and shut down the engine? If that's the case, it's a really serious issue. If not, that also needs to be explained," he said.

Others, however, aren't convinced this is a key issue.

"I haven't heard of this which appears to be a low-profile FAA issuance. Nor have I heard any complaints [about the fuel switches] from pilots - who are usually quick to speak up. It's worth examining since it's mentioned, but it may just be a distraction," said Mr Goelz.

Capt Kishore Chinta, a former investigator with India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB), wonders whether the switches tripped because of a problem with the plane's electronic control unit.

"Can the fuel cut-off switches be triggered electronically by the plane's electronic control unit without movement by the pilot? If the fuel cut-off switches tripped electronically, then it's a cause for concern," he told the BBC.

The report says fuel samples from the refuelling tanks were "satisfactory". Experts had earlier suggested fuel contamination as a possible cause of the dual engine failure. Notably, no advisory has been issued for the Boeing 787 or its GE GEnx-1B engines, with mechanical failure ruled out for now pending further investigation.

It also said that the aircraft's Ram Air Turbine (RAT) had deployed - a clear sign of a major systems failure - and the landing gear was found in "down position" or not retracted.

The RAT, a small propeller that extends from the underside of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, acts as an emergency backup generator. It automatically deploys in flight when both engines lose power or if all three hydraulic systems register critically low pressure, supplying limited power to keep essential flight systems operational.

"The deployment of the Ram Air Turbine (RAT) strongly supports the conclusion that both engines had failed," Mr Pruchnicki said.

A Boeing 787 pilot explained why he thought the landing gear was not retracted.

"These days, every time I take off in a 787, I notice the landing gear retraction process closely. By the time the gear handle is pulled, we're already at about 200ft (60.9m), and the entire gear retraction process completes by around 400ft - roughly eight seconds in total, thanks to the aircraft's high-pressure hydraulic system."

The pilot believes the one flying had no time to think.

"When both engines fail and the aircraft starts going down, the reaction goes beyond just being startled - you go numb. In that moment, landing gear isn't your focus. Your mind is on one thing: the flight path. Where can I put this aircraft down safely? And in this case, there simply wasn't enough altitude to work with."

Investigators say the crew tried to recover, but it happened too fast.

"The engines were switched off and then back on. The pilots realised the engines were losing thrust - likely restarting the left one first, followed by the right," said Mr Pruchnicki.

"But the right engine didn't have enough time to spool back up, and the thrust was insufficient. Both were eventually set to "run", but with the left shut down first and the right too late to recover, it was simply too little, too late."

BBC
 
When it was confirmed that plan crashed due to engine failure still some idiots blaming on pilots.
 
Just moment after AI 787 took off, fuel switch turns to cutting off.... one pilot asked another why you cut off fuel, another pilot said I didn't

Source : Sydney morning herald

It confirms it's an act of sabotage... remember Turkish company was doing maintenance of AI planes. This sabotage act may be carried out in frustration after all Indian tourists says no tourism with Turkey


Even if it was a turkish company who are they employing turks kurds ? Or the locals with thin legs and arms and their tiffin boxes for lunch .
 
As usual Boeing covers it.... and blame it on pilot... Turkish company's role need to be probe
yes Indian authorities will cover up an issue with the plane to protect Boeing or some random turkish company even though it would absolve themselves and Air India of any role in the crash. Makes perfect sense in your head im sure

The report specifically says the switches were toggled to OFF position (not some mechanical failure) and then attempted to be restarted after 10 seconds. One engine even came back on but by then it was too late in that phase of the flight. The final report will be more comprehensive but all signs point to an intentional act by one of the pilots
 
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So its looking like either a huge blunder or some sort of mental episode where one of them did this to commit suicide .
 
Chronology of events from the preliminary report

  • 08:07:00 – Aircraft begins takeoff roll
  • 08:08:33 – Aircraft reaches takeoff decision speed (point of no return)
  • 08:08:39 – Aircraft lifts off
  • 08:08:42 – Aircraft reaches maximum speed (180 knots)
  • 08:08:42 – Both fuel control switches transition from RUN to CUTOFF, one after the other within 1 second
  • 08:08:43 – 08:08:47 – Engines begin to lose speed due to fuel cutoff
    • RAT (Ram Air Turbine) deploys
    • Aircraft begins to lose altitude immediately after or even before crossing the airport perimeter
  • 08:08:52 – Engine 1 fuel switch moved back from CUTOFF to RUN
  • 08:08:56 – Engine 2 fuel switch moved back from CUTOFF to RUN
  • 08:09:00 – 08:09:10
    • Engine 1 starts back on
    • Engine 2 fails to restart
  • 08:09:11 – Aircraft crashes
So everything happened between 08:08:42 and 08:08:52 when the fuel switches were off and engine lost power. During flight, this can be recovered but in liftoff on a full heavy plane those 10 seconds were crucial.
 
We have lots of checks on passengers to the extent you can't take a bottle of water on a flight but surely there needs to be checks on pilots too to avoid episodes like this one.
 
We have lots of checks on passengers to the extent you can't take a bottle of water on a flight but surely there needs to be checks on pilots too to avoid episodes like this one.
Co pilot have 1000 hours and pilot have 8000 hours of experience. As captain Jack sparrow says" its easy to trust a dishonest person as he is dis honest by default .But its difficult to trust a honest person as we don't know when he will turn dis honest ".
 

'Was this avoidable?': Families of Air India crash victims seek answers​


For days, Imtiyaz Ali had been anxiously awaiting the findings of a preliminary report into last month's Air India crash that killed his brother, sister-in-law, and their two young children.

When the report was finally released early on Saturday in India, he read it carefully - only to be disappointed by what he said "reads like a product description".

"Other than the pilots' final conversation, there's nothing in it that really points to what caused the crash."

He hopes more details will be made public in the months to come.

"This matters to us," Ali said. "We want to know exactly what happened. It won't change anything for us now, we continue grieving - just as we have since that day. But at least we'll have some answers."

Javid Ali, hair short and wearing a brown button-down shirt, stands holding his daughter Amani, wearing a dress, beside his wife Maryam Ali, wearing a belted dress, glasses, and her dark hair short. Their son Zayn stands in front of them, Javid's arm around him.

The London-bound Air India flight 171 crashed into a suburban neighbourhood in the western Indian city of Ahmedabad shortly after take-off on 12 June, killing 241 of the 242 people on board and 19 others on the ground.

A preliminary investigative report released on Saturday in India said fuel to the engines of the plane cut off just seconds after take-off. The circumstances around how or why that happened remain unclear.

The report said that in recovered cockpit voice recordings, one of the pilots can be heard asking "why did you cut off?" - to which the other pilot replied he "did not do so".

A final report into the crash is expected in 12 months.

Shweta Parihar, 41, also wants answers. Her husband, Abhinav Parishar, 43, was on his way back to London. He was meant to fly later in the month but decided to come home early and ended up on the ill-fated flight.

She laments that no investigation will ever bring her husband back.

"For those of us that have lost loved ones, we've lost them, they are not coming back," she said.

"What will they do in the investigation, tell us how it happened? The life of how many people, 250 passengers, what will they say, sorry? Everything is done, everything is finished."

Parihar becomes emotional when she talks about the impact of the loss on her 11-year-old son Vihaan.

"He misses his dad badly," she said tearfully. Vihaan tells her that he won't fly Air India ever again.

A family photo with Shweta Parihar and her husband, Abhinav Parishar, and their son Vihaan
Abhinav and Shweta Parihar with their son Vihaan
Badasab Syed, 59, lost his brother, sister-in-law, and their two children in the crash.

He was hoping for answers from the preliminary report, but after watching the news, said he was left with more questions.

"The report mentions the pilots discussing who turned off fuel and a possible issue with the fuel control switch. We don't know, what does that mean? Was this avoidable?"

Badasab Syed says his younger brother, Inayat Syed, 49 was the heart of the family. Losing him, his wife and children, has shattered the entire family. The grief has been especially difficult on his 83-year-old mother, Bibi Sab.

"Losing her son and grandchildren has made her weak. I think she is not able to even tell us how she feels," he said.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5ylv04r1eyo
 
trying to give another angle to this story. :inti

No..... the conversation between pilots confirmed that No one cutoff fuel switch...why would pilots cut-off fuel switch? Then who cut-off fuel, it may be act of sabotage by Turkish company.. at that time Indians were banning touring Turkey
 
yes Indian authorities will cover up an issue with the plane to protect Boeing or some random turkish company even though it would absolve themselves and Air India of any role in the crash. Makes perfect sense in your head im sure

The report specifically says the switches were toggled to OFF position (not some mechanical failure) and then attempted to be restarted after 10 seconds. One engine even came back on but by then it was too late in that phase of the flight. The final report will be more comprehensive but all signs point to an intentional act by one of the pilots
How could? This investigation is being done in US and Indian government have no control over it
 
We have lots of checks on passengers to the extent you can't take a bottle of water on a flight but surely there needs to be checks on pilots too to avoid episodes like this one.
watch a show called Rehearsal season 2, itll answer your question.
 
Why cockpit audio deepens the mystery of Air India crash

Investigators have uncovered a chilling discovery in the preliminary investigation into the Air India Flight 171 crash which killed 260 people in June.

Just seconds after takeoff, both the 12-year-old Boeing 787 Dreamliner's fuel-control switches abruptly moved to the "cut-off" position, starving the engines of fuel and triggering total power loss. Switching to "cut-off" is a move typically done only after landing.

The cockpit voice recording captures one pilot asking the other why he "did the cut-off", to which the person replies that he didn't. The recording doesn't clarify who said what. At the time of takeoff, the co-pilot was flying the aircraft while the captain was monitoring.

The switches were returned to their normal inflight position, triggering automatic engine relight. At the time of the crash, one engine was regaining thrust while the other had relit but had not yet recovered power.

Air India Flight 171 was airborne for less than 40 seconds before crashing into a crowded neighbourhood in the western Indian city of Ahmedabad, marking one of India's most baffling aviation disasters.

Investigators are probing the wreckage and cockpit recorders to understand what went wrong just after takeoff. The Air India flight climbed to 625 feet in clear weather before losing location data 50 seconds in, per Flightradar24. Saturday's 15-page report offers early insights.

The investigation - led by Indian authorities, with experts from Boeing, GE, Air India and Indian regulators, alongside participants from the US National Transportation Safety Board and the UK - also raises a number of questions.

Investigators say the lever-lock fuel switches are designed to prevent accidental activation - they must be pulled up to unlock before flipping, a safety feature dating back to the 1950s. Built to exacting standards, they're highly reliable. Protective guard brackets further shield them from accidental bumps.

"It would be almost impossible to pull both switches with a single movement of one hand, and this makes accidental deployment unlikely," a Canada-based air accidents investigator, who wanted to remain unnamed, told the BBC.

That's what makes the Air India case stand out.

If one of the pilots was responsible for shutting down the switches, intentionally or not, it "does beg the question: why... push the switches to the off position," Shawn Pruchnicki, a former airline accident investigator and aviation expert at Ohio State University, said.

"Was it intentional, or the result of confusion? That seems unlikely, as the pilots reported nothing unusual. In many cockpit emergencies, pilots may press the wrong buttons or make incorrect selections - but there was no indication of such a situation here, nor any discussion suggesting that the fuel switches were selected by mistake. This kind of error doesn't typically happen without some evident issue," he told the BBC.

Peter Goelz, a former managing director of the US's NTSB, echoed a similar sentiment: "The finding is very disturbing - that a pilot has shut off the fuel switch within seconds of flying."

"There's likely much more on the cockpit voice recorder than what's been shared. A lone remark like 'why did you cut off the switches' isn't enough," he said.

"The new details suggest someone in the cockpit shut those valves. The question is, who, and why? Both switches were turned off and then restarted within seconds. The voice recorder will reveal more: was the flying pilot trying to restart the engines, or the monitoring one?"

Investigators believe the cockpit voice recorder - with audio from pilot mics, radio calls and ambient cockpit sounds - holds the key to this puzzle.

"They haven't identified the voices yet, which is crucial. Typically, when the voice recorder is reviewed, people familiar with the pilots are present to help match voices. As of now, we still don't know which pilot turned the switches off and back on," said Mr Goelz.

In short, investigators say what's needed is clear voice identification, a full cockpit transcript with labelled speakers, and a thorough review of all communications from the moment the plane was pushed back from the gate to the time it crashed.

They also say this underscores the need for cockpit video recorders, as recommended by the NTSB. An over-the-shoulder view would show whose hand was on the cut-off switch.

Before boarding Flight 171, both pilots and crew passed breathalyser tests and were cleared fit to fly, the report says. The pilots, based in Mumbai, had arrived in Ahmedabad the day before the flight and had adequate rest.

But investigators are also zeroing in on what they describe is an interesting point in the report.

It says in December 2018, the US Federal Aviation Administration issued a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) highlighting that some Boeing 737 fuel control switches were installed with the locking feature disengaged.

While the issue was noted, it wasn't deemed an unsafe condition requiring an Airworthiness Directive (AD) - a legally enforceable regulation to correct unsafe conditions in a product.

The same switch design is used in Boeing 787-8 aircraft, including Air India's VT-ANB which crashed. As the SAIB was advisory, Air India did not perform the recommended inspections.

Mr Pruchnicki said he's wondering whether there was a problem with the fuel control switches.

"What does this [bit in the report] exactly mean? Does it mean that with a single flip, that switch could shut the engine off and cut the fuel supply? When the locking feature is disengaged, what exactly happens? Could the switch just flip itself to off and shut down the engine? If that's the case, it's a really serious issue. If not, that also needs to be explained," he said.

Others, however, aren't convinced this is a key issue.

"I haven't heard of this which appears to be a low-profile FAA issuance. Nor have I heard any complaints [about the fuel switches] from pilots - who are usually quick to speak up. It's worth examining since it's mentioned, but it may just be a distraction," said Mr Goelz.

Capt Kishore Chinta, a former investigator with India's Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau (AAIB), wonders whether the switches tripped because of a problem with the plane's electronic control unit.

"Can the fuel cut-off switches be triggered electronically by the plane's electronic control unit without movement by the pilot? If the fuel cut-off switches tripped electronically, then it's a cause for concern," he told the BBC.

The report says fuel samples from the refuelling tanks were "satisfactory". Experts had earlier suggested fuel contamination as a possible cause of the dual engine failure. Notably, no advisory has been issued for the Boeing 787 or its GE GEnx-1B engines, with mechanical failure ruled out for now pending further investigation.

It also said that the aircraft's Ram Air Turbine (RAT) had deployed - a clear sign of a major systems failure - and the landing gear was found in "down position" or not retracted.

The RAT, a small propeller that extends from the underside of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, acts as an emergency backup generator. It automatically deploys in flight when both engines lose power or if all three hydraulic systems register critically low pressure, supplying limited power to keep essential flight systems operational.

"The deployment of the Ram Air Turbine (RAT) strongly supports the conclusion that both engines had failed," Mr Pruchnicki said.

A Boeing 787 pilot explained why he thought the landing gear was not retracted.

"These days, every time I take off in a 787, I notice the landing gear retraction process closely. By the time the gear handle is pulled, we're already at about 200ft (60.9m), and the entire gear retraction process completes by around 400ft - roughly eight seconds in total, thanks to the aircraft's high-pressure hydraulic system."

The pilot believes the one flying had no time to think.

"When both engines fail and the aircraft starts going down, the reaction goes beyond just being startled - you go numb. In that moment, landing gear isn't your focus. Your mind is on one thing: the flight path. Where can I put this aircraft down safely? And in this case, there simply wasn't enough altitude to work with."

Investigators say the crew tried to recover, but it happened too fast.

"The engines were switched off and then back on. The pilots realised the engines were losing thrust - likely restarting the left one first, followed by the right," said Mr Pruchnicki.

"But the right engine didn't have enough time to spool back up, and the thrust was insufficient. Both were eventually set to "run", but with the left shut down first and the right too late to recover, it was simply too little, too late."

BBC

Wow!

Was it a pilot suicide? That's what it seems like.
 
Even if a suicidal pilot deliberately caused this, a bunch of questions still remain for me -

1. Why the fancy switch dance?

Why would a suicidal pilot mess around with some elaborate switch manipulation just to crash the plane?

When people snap and go suicidal, they usually act fast and reckless like that one airline case where the pilot locked his co-pilot out and nosedived the plane. So why not skip the switch drama and just plunge it?

2. Side by side pilots which means someone’s gotta notice, right?

These two pilots sit right next to each other. From what I have read, this non-standard switch maneuver takes two hands.

Wouldn’t one of them spot the other fiddling with the controls and go, “Hey, what’s up with you?” You would think they wod react while its happening, not after.

But nope. One only asked about it 'after' the switches were flipped.

3. That weird little chat. What’s up with that?

After the switches got turned off, one pilot asked the other about it, and the other said, "No".

Okay, so, if the suicidal pilot did it, why even ask about it instead of keeping quiet? What’s the point of playing dumb after sabotaging the plane?

If the non-suicidal pilot asked the question, then why bother asking the question if he knows what happens when both fuel tanks are off? He is not clueless. Both of them had 1000s of flying hours logged

And if the suicidal one denied it, why lie? He would know the plane’s toast. Why act like there is still hope?

Did he think they would somehow glide to safety after killing the fuel? If so, why go through all that switch nonsense in the first place to crash the plane?

Plus, their conversation doesn’t even sound like one of them is unhinged or suicidal. No panic, no weird vibes. Just a matter of fact back and forth.

Maybe a pilot hanging out here can jump in and clear up these rookie questions for me. I am stumped.
 
How could? This investigation is being done in US and Indian government have no control over it
Investigation was done by Indian authorities. There were teams from Boeing and UK part of it but the Indian AAIB was in charge. They didn't even sent the black boxes to the US as originally planned, the data was extracted in India
 
Even if a suicidal pilot deliberately caused this, a bunch of questions still remain for me -

1. Why the fancy switch dance?

Why would a suicidal pilot mess around with some elaborate switch manipulation just to crash the plane?

When people snap and go suicidal, they usually act fast and reckless like that one airline case where the pilot locked his co-pilot out and nosedived the plane. So why not skip the switch drama and just plunge it?

2. Side by side pilots which means someone’s gotta notice, right?

These two pilots sit right next to each other. From what I have read, this non-standard switch maneuver takes two hands.

Wouldn’t one of them spot the other fiddling with the controls and go, “Hey, what’s up with you?” You would think they wod react while its happening, not after.

But nope. One only asked about it 'after' the switches were flipped.

3. That weird little chat. What’s up with that?

After the switches got turned off, one pilot asked the other about it, and the other said, "No".

Okay, so, if the suicidal pilot did it, why even ask about it instead of keeping quiet? What’s the point of playing dumb after sabotaging the plane?

If the non-suicidal pilot asked the question, then why bother asking the question if he knows what happens when both fuel tanks are off? He is not clueless. Both of them had 1000s of flying hours logged

And if the suicidal one denied it, why lie? He would know the plane’s toast. Why act like there is still hope?

Did he think they would somehow glide to safety after killing the fuel? If so, why go through all that switch nonsense in the first place to crash the plane?

Plus, their conversation doesn’t even sound like one of them is unhinged or suicidal. No panic, no weird vibes. Just a matter of fact back and forth.

Maybe a pilot hanging out here can jump in and clear up these rookie questions for me. I am stumped.
Whatever it is, the loss of 250+ lives in a single moment is tragic.
 
Don't blame Indian pilots as final report yet to come.... also PIA have record of 9 aeroplane crashes

It can’t be a blunder, since cutting off each switch requires three deliberate steps.

Mental health is not a joke.
 
Just moment after AI 787 took off, fuel switch turns to cutting off.... one pilot asked another why you cut off fuel, another pilot said I didn't

Source : Sydney morning herald

It confirms it's an act of sabotage... remember Turkish company was doing maintenance of AI planes. This sabotage act may be carried out in frustration after all Indian tourists says no tourism with Turkey

😂😂😂
 
Bit insensitive stuff being posted by posters here. The pilot has passed away, to assume its pilot error just because you feel like it behind ur screens is a dumb thing to say.

Speculate all you want, but even if its pilot error wait for investigation report
 
Bit insensitive stuff being posted by posters here. The pilot has passed away, to assume its pilot error just because you feel like it behind ur screens is a dumb thing to say.

Speculate all you want, but even if its pilot error wait for investigation report
The preliminary report is out alrea. The comprehensive report will take a year or 18 months to be released.

And the preliminary report pretty much indicates an act by the pilot even if it doesn't say that explicitly . Either sabotage or a muscle memory mistake
 
No..... the conversation between pilots confirmed that No one cutoff fuel switch...why would pilots cut-off fuel switch? Then who cut-off fuel, it may be act of sabotage by Turkish company.. at that time Indians were banning touring Turkey

Oh if the switch was tampered with the jet would not have taken off in the first place because no fuel would have reached the engines to ignite them.

I dont know whether it's possible there was some module fault or whether the fuel can be cut off electronically. But experts are saying these switches are controlled manually and have to be manually moved
 
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When it comes to some indians muscle memory and following copy paste textbook is natural to them they are not critical thinkers or people who like to operate out of their comfort zones
 
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Hard to understand at what phase this shared part of conversation took place. This pattern of words and sentences is more likely to be a talk during the phase of recovery attempt. Not sharing the whole conversation will raise suspicions of covering-up.
 
Investigation was done by Indian authorities. There were teams from Boeing and UK part of it but the Indian AAIB was in charge. They didn't even sent the black boxes to the US as originally planned, the data was extracted in India

If the black box not send, then how they conducted preliminary investigation report?
 
The preliminary report is out alrea. The comprehensive report will take a year or 18 months to be released.

And the preliminary report pretty much indicates an act by the pilot even if it doesn't say that explicitly . Either sabotage or a muscle memory mistake

There was a cctv in cockpit of AI 787, the scenes of final moment are captured. Why investigation authorities not releasing video footage?
 
Bit insensitive stuff being posted by posters here. The pilot has passed away, to assume its pilot error just because you feel like it behind ur screens is a dumb thing to say.

Speculate all you want, but even if its pilot error wait for investigation report

Yes ... its just preliminary report which not holding its a pilot error. In depth investigation is pending which will take at least 1 year
 
I will be very blunt.

This was a pilot suicide crash.
I am 99% sure of it at this stage.

The same conclusion was apparent to me for the Malaysian 370 aircraft crash in 2014 (that is still missing for 11 years) weeks into it as it was pillot suicide despite all the theories it became obvious it was deliberate because the air transponders were deliberately cut off. It turned out the captain did this. There is no other plausible theory but I made this conclusion on this forum weeks into that crash.

This will be devestating for the Indian passengers and their families.

I just hope the Indian government doesn’t attempt to cover this up because the Egyptian government did exactly this into the 1999 EgyptAir flight 990 crash.
I have seen many rehearsed aircrash programmes over the years but this was one of the most terrifying ones ever because it was an absolute nightmare what the deranged fill in pilot did to the poor passengers.
The truth should never be suppressed even though shamefully the Egyptian government still denies this obvious conclusion.
Here is a link below on that crash - it’s essential viewing but like I say it’s not easy to stomach.
 
It was either a murder suicide by the pilot or an extreme chance of a muscle memory triggered wrongly. This shut off procedure is done once the plane lands and at the end

But the 99% chance is of an intentional act by the pilot to take his own life and everyone else in the process
I will be very blunt.

This was a pilot suicide crash.
I am 99% sure of it at this stage.

The same conclusion was apparent to me for the Malaysian 370 aircraft crash in 2014 (that is still missing for 11 years) weeks into it as it was pillot suicide despite all the theories it became obvious it was deliberate because the air transponders were deliberately cut off. It turned out the captain did this. There is no other plausible theory but I made this conclusion on this forum weeks into that crash.

This will be devestating for the Indian passengers and their families.

I just hope the Indian government doesn’t attempt to cover this up because the Egyptian government did exactly this into the 1999 EgyptAir flight 990 crash.
I have seen many rehearsed aircrash programmes over the years but this was one of the most terrifying ones ever because it was an absolute nightmare what the deranged fill in pilot did to the poor passengers.
The truth should never be suppressed even though shamefully the Egyptian government still denies this obvious conclusion.
Here is a link below on that crash - it’s essential viewing but like I say it’s not easy to stomach.
Yeah similar first thought after the new info that this is a similar conclusion of that Malaysian airlines plane that is yet to be found where this was one of conclusions as well.

Proper background search needs to be done on both pilots as it’s not clear which pilot said what on the audio.

They need to dig into their recently history eg Things like off putting behavior or words or anything like that from close relatives or colleagues in days or months leading up to all this.

Apologies if findings on that are somewhere in above posts, long read so skimmed through t he pages.

The Malaysian airline pilot apparently had practiced the same exact route in his simulator at home before the plane went missing.

Because if same case happened as with Malaysian airlines then airlines all around the world need to zone in on mental wellness of their pilots to prevent these things from happening in the future.
 
The preliminary report is out alrea. The comprehensive report will take a year or 18 months to be released.

And the preliminary report pretty much indicates an act by the pilot even if it doesn't say that explicitly . Either sabotage or a muscle memory mistake
Again. A person has died, he cant defend himself.

In his last moments what if everything he did was right and the issue was in the plane?

Still you think that justifies to bash the dead?

If you had done everything right, still died and people blamed you for your death and others than what?

Like i said, speculate other things but for pilot error wait for investigation report.
 
Again. A person has died, he cant defend himself.

In his last moments what if everything he did was right and the issue was in the plane?

Still you think that justifies to bash the dead?

If you had done everything right, still died and people blamed you for your death and others than what?

Like i said, speculate other things but for pilot error wait for investigation report.

That's the reason they didnt explicitly point fingers at the pilots in the preliminary report. They wont say so till there is definitive evidence which pilot pulled the switches in the final report which is at least a year away. They will investigate the personal lives to check if anyone was suffering from depression or any other persona issues

But the implication was very clear. The switches have to be transitioned mechanically, it cant be done by software. And the mechanical action is also deliberate you have to pull the switch before transitioning it, it cant be flicked off like an electric switch by mistake while doing something
 
That's the reason they didnt explicitly point fingers at the pilots in the preliminary report. They wont say so till there is definitive evidence which pilot pulled the switches in the final report which is at least a year away. They will investigate the personal lives to check if anyone was suffering from depression or any other persona issues

But the implication was very clear. The switches have to be transitioned mechanically, it cant be done by software. And the mechanical action is also deliberate you have to pull the switch before transitioning it, it cant be flicked off like an electric switch by mistake while doing something
again, you are missing the point. You are giving conclusions and making assumptions.
 
again, you are missing the point. You are giving conclusions and making assumptions.
I am not making any assumptions. The report deliberately made that clear implication.

This matters because the alternative is that the plane or engine has a problem which means you have to fix whatever problem is in the plane on priority because there are 1000+ 787s flying currently. The fact there was no advisory about the plane or the engine is a clear indication that the pilot was at fault.

When the final investigation report is released a year from now you will see it spelled out in black and white
 
I am not making any assumptions. The report deliberately made that clear implication.

This matters because the alternative is that the plane or engine has a problem which means you have to fix whatever problem is in the plane on priority because there are 1000+ 787s flying currently. The fact there was no advisory about the plane or the engine is a clear indication that the pilot was at fault.

When the final investigation report is released a year from now you will see it spelled out in black and white
and thats what i am saying. Lets wait for the full report before we go around and assume and say that pilot was at fault
 
Amid Air India probe, US FAA, Boeing notify fuel switch locks are safe, document, sources say

The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration and Boeing (BA.N), opens new tab have privately issued notifications that the fuel switch locks on Boeing planes are safe, a document seen by Reuters showed and four sources with knowledge of the matter said.

The FAA's Continued Airworthiness Notification on July 11 came after a preliminary report on Friday into last month's Boeing 787-8 crash, which killed 260 people, raised questions over engine fuel cutoff switches.

The FAA's notification to Civil Aviation Authorities, seen by Reuters, said: "although the fuel control switch design, including the locking feature, is similar on various Boeing airplane models, the FAA does not consider this issue to be an unsafe condition that would warrant an Airworthiness Directive on any Boeing airplane models, including the Model 787."

When asked for comment, the FAA said it did not have anything to add beyond the notification.

Boeing also referred to FAA's notification in a Multi-Operator-Message sent to the airlines in the past few days, which said the planemaker is not recommending any action, two of the sources with direct knowledge said.


 
I'm waging my bet on pilot incompetency his mind were elsewhere probably in deep thoughts elsewhere, a bit of a brain freeze scramble and muscle memory he pulls the switch in a mr bean style blunder .
 
I'm also inclined to believe it's the pilot who did the mr bean type bonghi

He then realised what he had done put the fuel switches back to run to correct the mistake but it was too late , so asked co pilot why did you cut of the fuel has some sort of self absolvation and self guilt . And then realised he screwed up gives the distress call.
 
FAA Defends Boeing Fuel Switches After Deadly Air India Crash

The US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has defended the safety of fuel control switches in Boeing aircraft, stating they do not pose an "unsafe condition," following preliminary findings into the June crash of Air India Flight 171 that killed 260 people. Investigators reported that both fuel switches had flipped from “run” to “cut-off” shortly after take-off from Ahmedabad, cutting power to the engines. A pilot was heard asking, “Why did you cut off the fuel?” to which the other responded, “I did not do so,” deepening the mystery. Though a 2018 FAA advisory recommended inspecting the locking mechanisms on such switches, it was not mandatory and was not acted upon by Air India.

The FAA reiterated, “Although the fuel control switch design... is similar on various Boeing models, the FAA does not consider this issue to be an unsafe condition.” Air India CEO Campbell Wilson urged caution, stating the report “found no mechanical or maintenance issues” and warned against “premature conclusions,” emphasising the investigation is ongoing and has yet to determine a cause.

Source: BBC
 

Don't vilify Air India crash crew: Indian pilots' association​


An association of Indian pilots has defended the crew of the Air India Flight 171 which crashed in June, killing 260 people.

The Indian Commercial Pilots' Association (ICPA) said the crew "acted in line with their training and responsibilities under challenging conditions and the pilots shouldn't be vilified based on conjecture".

"To casually suggest pilot suicide without verified evidence is a gross violation of ethical reporting and a disservice to the dignity of the profession," it added.

A preliminary report did not blame the pilots. It said seconds after take-off, both of the Boeing 787 Dreamliner's fuel-control switches moved to the "cut-off" position, starving the engines of fuel.

The report released on Saturday gave details of the cockpit voice recording with one pilot asking the other why he "did the cut-off", to which the other replies that he didn't. The recording doesn't clarify who said what. Data shows the switches were then moved to "run" position, but the plane crashed within seconds.

Aviation experts and pilots say the fuel switches are designed to prevent accidental activation and they must be pulled up to unlock before flipping. Protective guard brackets further shield them from accidental bumps.

The preliminary report does not throw any light on how the switches were moved to cut-off, but since its release, sections of media and social media has been awash with speculation about the role of pilots.

"We are deeply disturbed by speculative narratives emerging in sections of the media and public discourse - particularly the reckless and unfounded insinuation of pilot suicide," the Indian Commercial Pilots' Association (ICPA) said in a statement released late on Saturday night.

"Let us be unequivocally clear: there is absolutely no basis for such a claim at this stage, and invoking such a serious allegation based on incomplete or preliminary information is not only irresponsible - it is deeply insensitive to the individuals and families involved."

The statement added that until the official investigation was concluded and the final report was published, "any speculation - especially of such a grave nature - is unacceptable and must be condemned".

Close-up view of Dreamliner 787 aircraft cockpit control panel with labelled components. The thrust levers are prominent in the centre. Engine fuel control switches, which cut fuel supply and shut down engines, are on the left. Switches with a stop lock mechanism that must be lifted before turning are on the right. Guard brackets prevent accidental movement of the switches
The pilots' union said it was "surprised at the secrecy surrounding these investigations"

The preliminary investigation was led by Indian government with experts from Boeing, General Electric, Air India, Indian regulators and participants from the US and UK. A final report is due to come out in a year.

On Saturday, another pilots' grouping - the Airline Pilots' Association of India (ALPA India) - had raised concerns over the way the investigation was being handled.

It highlighted that the report also mentions that in December 2018, the US Federal Aviation Administration issued a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) highlighting that some Boeing 737 fuel control switches were installed with the locking feature disengaged.

While the issue was noted, it wasn't deemed an unsafe condition requiring an Airworthiness Directive (AD) - a legally enforceable regulation to correct unsafe conditions in a product.

The same switch design is used in Boeing 787-8 aircraft, including Air India's VT-ANB which crashed. As the SAIB was advisory, Air India did not perform the recommended inspections.

Taking note of the bulletin, ALPA India said "it demands clarity on whether the recommendations outlined in the bulletin were implemented before the flight". (Air India hasn't commented on the specific issue.)

The US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said the fuel control switches in Boeing aeroplanes were safe and noted that its own 2018 advisory "was based on reports that the fuel control switches were installed with the locking feature disengaged" - but added that it did not believe this made the planes unsafe.

The ALPA India also said it was "surprised at the secrecy surrounding these investigations" and alleged that "suitably qualified personnel were not taken on board for the probe".

"We feel that the investigation is being driven in a direction presuming the guilt of pilots and we strongly object to this line of thought," ALPA India's president Captain Sam Thomas said in the statement.

The union also urged the authorities to allow it to join the process "even in the capacity of observers so as to provide the requisite transparency in the investigations".

Following the report's release on Saturday, Indian Civil Aviation Minister Ram Mohan Naidu told reporters to not "jump to any conclusions at this stage. Let us wait for the final report".

Describing the pilots and crew in India as the "backbone of this civil aviation", he said India had "the most wonderful workforce in terms of pilots and the crew in the whole world".

Flight 171 had taken off from the western Indian city of Ahmedabad for Gatwick in London on 12 June with 242 people on board. The crash killed 241 onboard - one passenger miraculously survived - and 19 people on the ground.

The report says the pilots, based in Mumbai, had arrived in Ahmedabad the previous day and were adequately-rested. They had passed breathalyser tests and were cleared to fly, it adds.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cddzp0g5l25o
 
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