What happens if there is a military conflict between Pakistan and America?

[the Great Khan]

Ok, but here we have an America-Pakistan war scenario, where the popular deterrence seems to be not an attack on America, but a threat to their South Asian/Middle East allies. Sounds very unfair from an Indian perspective.

War is unfair. The fact that Pakistan would do such a thing will ensure that countries in the neighbourhood would work to dissuade the US from attacking and work to come up with a negotiated settlement.

I have it from good authority that during the 80's there wa sa plan to take out Kahuta. Isreal, fresh from its success in Iraq was determined to make sure another Muslim dictator would not get nukes. Hence they had hatched a plan with india to attack Kahuta from across the border. They would all come up with a plausible story to avoid recriminations. Unfortunatley Pakistan found out about the plan and sent a "message" to their contacts in India. The message was simple, "there are four f16's loaded and ready at a minutes notice to get to Bombay on a one way suicide mission". India told the Isrealis to back off and the plan was dumped in the dust bin..

 

[Greenstorm]

Ok, but here we have an America-Pakistan war scenario, where the popular deterrence seems to be not an attack on America, but a threat to their South Asian/Middle East allies. Sounds very unfair from an Indian perspective.

Well it is war. What do you expect ?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Ok, but here we have an America-Pakistan war scenario, where the popular deterrence seems to be not an attack on America, but a threat to their South Asian/Middle East allies. Sounds very unfair from an Indian perspective.

That is victim mentality thinking, India can take charge of the situation by telling the US in no uncertain terms that they have no business conducting war on their doorstep should this unlikely scenario ever unfold. Your forefathers would have considered war on Islamabad or Lahore, war on their own homes, that too conducted by descendants of the former European imperialist powers that ruled India 200 years ago.

 

[BlackShadow]

War is unfair. The fact that Pakistan would do such a thing will ensure that countries in the neighbourhood would work to dissuade the US from attacking and work to come up with a negotiated settlement.

I have it from good authority that during the 80's there wa sa plan to take out Kahuta. Isreal, fresh from its success in Iraq was determined to make sure another Muslim dictator would not get nukes. Hence they had hatched a plan with india to attack Kahuta from across the border. They would all come up with a plausible story to avoid recriminations. Unfortunatley Pakistan found out about the plan and sent a "message" to their contacts in India. The message was simple, "there are four f16's loaded and ready at a minutes notice to get to Bombay on a one way suicide mission". India told the Isrealis to back off and the plan was dumped in the dust bin..

The described policy isn't just based on retaliation to aggressors, but also on harming countries not participating in the war. So I was right in calling the nukes a blackmailing tool.

 

[the Great Khan]

The described policy isn't just based on retaliation to aggressors, but also on harming countries not participating in the war. So I was right in calling the nukes a blackmailing tool.

No it is the right strategy. India will not be an unwilling partner. You have an agreement with the US for use of bases and facilities. If there were to be a problem between the US and Pakistan, India would be obliged to help. You are a US ally now. You would be asked for help to base aircraft and refuellers in the andamans if required and even special forces near the border. Pakistan would be in its right to take these out..

But India is not that stupid and would be smart enough to use this to thier advantage. Perhaps play the peace broker and get the plaudits, while also portraying Pakistan as a blackmailer and extreme state. But help defuse the situation..

 

[BlackShadow]

That is victim mentality thinking, India can take charge of the situation by telling the US in no uncertain terms that they have no business conducting war on their doorstep should this unlikely scenario ever unfold. Your forefathers would have considered war on Islamabad or Lahore, war on their own homes, that too conducted by descendants of the former European imperialist powers that ruled India 200 years ago.

So you expect India to call upon the Akhand Bharat philosophy, interesting.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

If in a hypothetical scenario the US were to attack Pakistan like it did say Iraq then all bets are off. There is one thing the Indian military understands full well about Pakistan and that is its conviction. If we see that we are done for, we will go down and take many many with us. That is why there hasnt been a war since 1971.

How you are going to fight many when you are fighting greatest Military in world? you don't stand a chance.

 

[BlackShadow]

No it is the right strategy. India will not be an unwilling partner. You have an agreement with the US for use of bases and facilities. If there were to be a problem between the US and Pakistan, India would be obliged to help. You are a US ally now. You would be asked for help to base aircraft and refuellers in the andamans if required and even special forces near the border. Pakistan would be in its right to take these out..

But India is not that stupid and would be smart enough to use this to thier advantage. Perhaps play the peace broker and get the plaudits, while also portraying Pakistan as a blackmailer and extreme state. But help defuse the situation..

You made me look up the agreement. Under LEMOA, there are no obligations for logistics support in case of war, nor does it give America any military base for launching an offensive on any country. Your war scenario needs a little update, because I find that India can conveniently sit out.

Or if I am wrong, you can guide me to the relevant agreement.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

That is victim mentality thinking, India can take charge of the situation by telling the US in no uncertain terms that they have no business conducting war on their doorstep should this unlikely scenario ever unfold. Your forefathers would have considered war on Islamabad or Lahore, war on their own homes, that too conducted by descendants of the former European imperialist powers that ruled India 200 years ago.

It's not our war why should we involve?

 

[the Great Khan]

How you are going to fight many when you are fighting greatest Military in world? you don't stand a chance.

we aren't going to fight them..we are simply going to up the stakes to such an extent that fighting us would mean universal armaggedon. And India will have to get involved because of the sheer proximity of the engagement. Think about it. If we unleash a barrage of nuke tipped cruise missiles at the american carrier groups in the Indian ocean, do you think you wont be affected?? India will end up involved..plus some of your planners will lick their lips at ending your 1000 years of humiliation and all that nonsense!!

 

[the Great Khan]

You made me look up the agreement. Under LEMOA, there are no obligations for logistics support in case of war, nor does it give America any military base for launching an offensive on any country. Your war scenario needs a little update, because I find that India can conveniently sit out.

Or if I am wrong, you can guide me to the relevant agreement.

"Declared war". America wont declare war and it will be couched as a humanitarian mission to save the brave anti regime Pakistani people. They will require support for their humanitarian mission which India will be asked to provide for humanity..Your media will hype it and you will support it..

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

we aren't going to fight them..we are simply going to up the stakes to such an extent that fighting us would mean universal armaggedon. And India will have to get involved because of the sheer proximity of the engagement. Think about it. If we unleash a barrage of nuke tipped cruise missiles at the american carrier groups in the Indian ocean, do you think you wont be affected?? India will end up involved..plus some of your planners will lick their lips at ending your 1000 years of humiliation and all that nonsense!!

lol..you are underestimating US massively.

 

[the Great Khan]

I seem to have been caught up in the conversation. In my original post I mentioned how I thought the US would fight Pakistan. My answer to [MENTION=146612]BlackShadow[/MENTION] is based on that premise..

 

[the Great Khan]

lol..you are underestimating US massively.

nope..they wont fight us like India..they will fight us from behind, through intrigue, and "peace"..I got caught up in the conversatin. In my priginal post I described How I think they will fight us..or try to..

By the way they have already tried this strategy and it has failed..they are refining it and will try again..

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

So you expect India to call upon the Akhand Bharat philosophy, interesting.

I am suggesting to raise your sights from a lowly status to a higher one. In truth I am not expecting success here, a king would request a banquet, a beggar will be happy with a sandwich.

It's not our war why should we involve?

To avoid getting nuked.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

I am suggesting to raise your sights from a lowly status to a higher one. In truth I am not expecting success here, a king would request a banquet, a beggar will be happy with a sandwich.



To avoid getting nuked.

When US took over Pakistan how do we get nuked?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

When US took over Pakistan how do we get nuked?

I don't know the exact logistics, I'm not military buff, but I would imagine for US to take over Pakistan ( or India pre-British Raj if you like), it would take a few weeks or months. To press a button to nuke India would take maybe seconds or minutes.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

I don't know the exact logistics, I'm not military buff, but I would imagine for US to take over Pakistan ( or India pre-British Raj if you like), it would take a few weeks or months. To press a button to nuke India would take maybe seconds or minutes.

So the moment US attack Pakistan instead of defending its citizens Pakistan establishment will attack India with nukes? Nice priority to have

 

[DeadBall]

Stirring stuff.

This was the stuff of my nightmares when US launched drone strikes against targets in Pakistan with absolute impunity. I expected Pakistan to show the world what it means to take on a "aitami taqat". Instead, all we saw was beggary and pleading to USA to halt the strikes.

Ditto with the SEALS strike to kill Osama. Arrived right at the heart of military academy in kakul and got what they want at the force of gun point. Sovereignty violated through every orifice.

Nevertheless, I am sure you are right and US would be browning their pants at the thought of taking on Pakistan next time.

Please re-read my comment. I never said the US would be browning their pants, I just said there is no point in starting a war with a nuclear power unless something very very drastic happens.

 

[DeadBall]

So the moment US attack Pakistan instead of defending its citizens Pakistan establishment will attack India with nukes? Nice priority to have

If annihilation was imminent I am pretty sure the Pakistanis (or those in charge anyway) might likely say that if we're going down we might take down our perpetual enemy and neighbor as well. One doesn't know how would react in such extreme scenarios. This is all hypothetical ofcourse and I don't see it happening, not in the foreseeable future anyways.

 

[noonebetterthanPappu]

If annihilation was imminent I am pretty sure the Pakistanis (or those in charge anyway) might likely say that if we're going down we might take down our perpetual enemy and neighbor as well. One doesn't know how would react in such extreme scenarios. This is all hypothetical ofcourse and I don't see it happening, not in the foreseeable future anyways.

If some country attacks India we will try to defend ourselves rather than nuking some other countries as it doesn't serve any purpose.We have to fight till the end so all resources must be used for that purpose only.

 

[blackanhyellow]

We are a colony of China, of course they will step in.

Pakistan is not a colony of China. If Pakistan isnt put in a better direction, it may become something resembling a colony, but it is not even close yet.

China has genuine strategic interests in Pakistan.

Keeping Pakistan stable is good for China as it slows down India's rise, who is China's biggest rival in the region.

Also, Pakistan balances out the growing American influence in the region in the neighboring Afghanistan as well as American's new found friendship with India.

On top of that, they have heavily invested in their belt and road initiative of which Pakistan is a significant part. This is also part of China's long term vision for growing their influence in the world and one day becoming a true super power.

Nothing to do with friendship or because Pakistan is a colony. It is simply a matter of China's national interest.

At the same time, they will risk as little as possible. Like I said they wont directly engage with U.S.

It will be similar to how Russia stepped in Syria without actually fighting the United States directly (so far).