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What improvements should Babar Azam and Rizwan bring to improve their strike rate for modern T20?

Ahmed216 said:
I think a better middle would help them play a bit more freely
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Why can't they go to the middle order if their the BEST players and the MO is weak according ti fans?

Why not let openers be openers and do the PP job for you?
 
mominsaigol said:
Well babar's dad bod ain't gonna help him. Tbf he seems to have controlled his weight since 2023 wc atleast. He hasn't gained but his weight from 2023 wc was embrassing.
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Getting into better shape is under his control. Its not uncommon for cricketers to reinvent themselves or add new dimensions to their game. Dhawan, Damien Martyn, Mushfiqur, Hussey, Haddin, Hodge, Simmons, Raza and even Hafeez all added new gear to their batting later on in their careers.
On the bowling front, Chris Woakes around 2014, and Mohammad Irfan around 2012 both added 10-15ks of pace to their bowling.
 
Rizwan, Fakhar and Babar would be my top 3 for wt20. Saim can used as a tukka at no.3 something like a pinch hitter.
 
Mamoon said:
They need to bat at 3 and 4.

Pakistan needs to adopt the following template in this format. Open with two aggressive players, have two consolidator type players at 3 and 4 who can play long innings and then have aggressive finishers at 5, 6 and 7.

This is pretty much what every team is looking to do. Pakistan is the only team in the world that starts on the back foot by opening with two consolidators who have no idea what an above par score would be.

If this was the right approach Pakistan would be dominating the format amidst all the chest puffing over these two’s averages and other teams would also be looking to adopt this strategy.

It is a tried and failed strategy that has achieved nothing except make two nothing T20 players like Babar and Rizwan look like Bradman on paper.
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@mominsaigol @topspin @Dr_Bassim
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Getting into better shape is under his control. Its not uncommon for cricketers to reinvent themselves or add new dimensions to their game. Dhawan, Damien Martyn, Mushfiqur, Hussey, Haddin, Hodge, Simmons, Raza and even Hafeez all added new gear to their batting later on in their careers.
On the bowling front, Chris Woakes around 2014, and Mohammad Irfan around 2012 both added 10-15ks of pace to their bowling.
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Idk about the others, but for Hafeez, that's not true. Hafeez was always aggressive and was really good at spin six hitting. His issue was ego, he was terrible at opening. If he survived a few overs he could work, but just like KL Rahul dude couldn't read new ball bowling.

In fact in later years during 2018, he often got exposed at no 3 if fakhar and babar didn't kick off, which is why he functioned better at no 4 in t20.

He was slow at opening due to not being able to read new ball, not because he was deliberately trying to be slow.

It's just he always felt opening was his position but once he let go of that ego, he because a solid no 4 for Pakistan. The problem is Pakistani fans just don't appreciate how good a player actually is until they leave.

I have seen old posts on PP where people are ruthlessly bashing people like hafeez, Malik and even Imad, and yet after their departure and before Imad's return we've spent years dealing with Shadab, Nawaz, Chacha and these crap munafiqs.
 
mominsaigol said:
Idk about the others, but for Hafeez, that's not true. Hafeez was always aggressive and was really good at spin six hitting. His issue was ego, he was terrible at opening. If he survived a few overs he could work, but just like KL Rahul dude couldn't read new ball bowling.

In fact in later years during 2018, he often got exposed at no 3 if fakhar and babar didn't kick off, which is why he functioned better at no 4 in t20.

He was slow at opening due to not being able to read new ball, not because he was deliberately trying to be slow.

It's just he always felt opening was his position but once he let go of that ego, he because a solid no 4 for Pakistan. The problem is Pakistani fans just don't appreciate how good a player actually is until they leave.

I have seen old posts on PP where people are ruthlessly bashing people like hafeez, Malik and even Imad, and yet after their departure and before Imad's return we've spent years dealing with Shadab, Nawaz, Chacha and these crap munafiqs.
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Malik as only good against spinners and medium pacers in Asia, WI and maybe SA. Pacers and every other country, he was a fish out of water especially after 2009.
Hafeez started his career in 2003 as an uber defensive batter. You may not have seen how Hafeez used to be like from 2003-2010. His SR used to be merely 58 in ODIs. In between that he played 2 reasonable knocks in between, in CT 06 43 ball 46 and 107 ball 91 against WI. Apart from that he was painful to watch despite him being a very consistent performer in domestics.
He turned his corner around finally in England 2010, where after spot fixing, Pak was left without their most successful ODI opener since 2005. It was sort of a final chance for Hafeez and his partnership with Kamran did very well for a few series before they decided to bring Ahmad Shehzad in.
Hafeez' career basically kickstarted from 2011 NZ tour.
 
Both are too placid at the crease. Neither uses their feet against fast bowlers although I saw against Riz look to go down the wicket against Ireland.
 
BunnyRabbit said:
Malik as only good against spinners and medium pacers in Asia, WI and maybe SA. Pacers and every other country, he was a fish out of water especially after 2009.
Hafeez started his career in 2003 as an uber defensive batter. You may not have seen how Hafeez used to be like from 2003-2010. His SR used to be merely 58 in ODIs. In between that he played 2 reasonable knocks in between, in CT 06 43 ball 46 and 107 ball 91 against WI. Apart from that he was painful to watch despite him being a very consistent performer in domestics.
He turned his corner around finally in England 2010, where after spot fixing, Pak was left without their most successful ODI opener since 2005. It was sort of a final chance for Hafeez and his partnership with Kamran did very well for a few series before they decided to bring Ahmad Shehzad in.
Hafeez' career basically kickstarted from 2011 NZ tour.
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For hafeez I was referring to 2011 and onwards. Not 2003 to 2010.

The criticism for hafeez mostly came around 2010 onwards while social media was getting traction and uptill retirement he got backclash.

But now they he's gone he's considered pur greatest allrounder in the past 5-10 years, which is true. Shadab is nowhere close to hafeez nor will he ever be.

As for malik, I agree he sucks against pace, but he's still 100x superior to chacha who can't even play neesham. Infact Malik's CT innings where he scored a 100 against India is > What chacha can do, those bowlers were far far superior to Nepal and Irish bowlers on batting friendly pitches or schoolboy 40M boundaries lol.
 
mominsaigol said:
For hafeez I was referring to 2011 and onwards. Not 2003 to 2010.

The criticism for hafeez mostly came around 2010 onwards while social media was getting traction and uptill retirement he got backclash.

But now they he's gone he's considered pur greatest allrounder in the past 5-10 years, which is true. Shadab is nowhere close to hafeez nor will he ever be.

As for malik, I agree he sucks against pace, but he's still 100x superior to chacha who can't even play neesham. Infact Malik's CT innings where he scored a 100 against India is > What chacha can do, those bowlers were far far superior to Nepal and Irish bowlers on batting friendly pitches or schoolboy 40M boundaries lol.
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The Malik we got post 2010 ban was vastly different version. The only reason he was able to score something off the pacers was his experience and nimble feet movement. Iftikhar is mentally not a tough enough player even though he might be a better player of pace than Malik, Ifti doesn't have the belief in himself to take on the pacers and spinners regularly.
 
mominsaigol said:
Why can't they go to the middle order if their the BEST players and the MO is weak according ti fans?

Why not let openers be openers and do the PP job for you?
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Rohit Sharma started his career as a middle order batsman for few years .Then he became an opener and never looked back.
India's been struggling for many years in middle order so did Rohit try to become a middle order batsman again?
Will people blame Rohit for India's semi final exit in 2019 WC ? Or failure to reach KO's in last two WCs.

There've been many examples of players who started their careers in MO but eventually settled as a successful opener.
 
Rana said:
What’s Rizwan’s excuse in PSL where he strikes at 120 every year as an opener?
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I know that his strike rate in PSL is similar to that of international teams. But his teams plays the finals every year and that is all that matters. Pakistan made the semi final and final of last two World Cups with Rizwan as an opener which a team like India could not do.

What I meant was that if from now on the team decides to improve the overall strike rate then a better middle order would help the openers play a bit more freely.
Do Shadab and Iftikhar perform like PSL in internationals?
 
Don't worry. Babar and Rizwan have ordered new bats for aggressive batting. We will see them playing with high strike rate now.
 
Ahmed216 said:
Rohit Sharma started his career as a middle order batsman for few years .Then he became an opener and never looked back.
India's been struggling for many years in middle order so did Rohit try to become a middle order batsman again?
Will people blame Rohit for India's semi final exit in 2019 WC ? Or failure to reach KO's in last two WCs.

There've been many examples of players who started their careers in MO but eventually settled as a successful opener.
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Did rohit cause India to drop 7 ranks? Do babar and rizzu have 200 scores like rohit does?

Do babar and rizwan provide 9 RR starts in PP like rohit?
 
mominsaigol said:
Did rohit cause India to drop 7 ranks? Do babar and rizzu have 200 scores like rohit does?

Do babar and rizwan provide 9 RR starts in PP like rohit?
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Babar was the main contributor in Pakistan becoming no.1 under Sarfraz. This was possible only after we god rid of the likes of Shahzad jamshed sharjeel and other openers who kept failing for years
 
Ahmed216 said:
Babar was the main contributor in Pakistan becoming no.1 under Sarfraz. This was possible only after we god rid of the likes of Shahzad jamshed sharjeel and other openers who kept failing for years
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No 1 in what? Odi? How did that turn out in the world cup? And how's that relvenat to t20 or rohit?
 
mominsaigol said:
Did rohit cause India to drop 7 ranks? Do babar and rizzu have 200 scores like rohit does?

Do babar and rizwan provide 9 RR starts in PP like rohit?
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Rohit can provide 15 rpo starts but he won't play for Pakistan. So please judge our players by our standards
 
Ahmed216 said:
Rohit can provide 15 rpo starts but he won't play for Pakistan. So please judge our players by our standards
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Rohit with 15 rpo could not take india to world cup final but babar did. Not sure where the problem lies in indian team then
 
Highest strike rate and the average for an Asian batter. One and only Babar Azam. He loves England.

phi8mq9.png
 
mominsaigol said:
You brought rohit into the conversation genius
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I have you an example of Rohit who started as middle order batsman and then became an opener. I did not compare Babar and Rizwan's batting to his.
 
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Ahmed216 said:
I have you an example of Rohit who started as middle order batsman and then became an opener. I did not compare Babar and Rizwan's batting to his.
Better you don't make personal remarks.
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Why bring up that example, if you weren't going to stay true to it?

Rohit sharma is the greatest opener India has had in the past decade and not a single soul has surpassed him, even now while burnt out and aged he still shut everyone up in wc 2023.

When on earth do babar and rizwan ever remotely compare to that? 2022 wasn't enough for you guys to learn your lesson?
 
mominsaigol said:
Why bring up that example, if you weren't going to stay true to it?

Rohit sharma is the greatest opener India has had in the past decade and not a single soul has surpassed him, even now while burnt out and aged he still shut everyone up in wc 2023.

When on earth do babar and rizwan ever remotely compare to that? 2022 wasn't enough for you guys to learn your lesson?
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Babar and Rizwan are the greatest openers in Pak T20 cricket history. They are the best in 'pakistan'.
Anyone who thinks Kamran Akmal was better is not fit to talk about cricket.
 
Ahmed216 said:
Babar and Rizwan are the greatest openers in Pak T20 cricket history. They are the best in 'pakistan'.
Anyone who thinks Kamran Akmal was better is not fit to talk about cricket.
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Did I bring up KA? I never did. Also lol at then being thr greatest.

Your greatest openers have the worst wc performance out of every other opener who has ever played for Pakistan in the past.

Who told Bobby to avg 17 which is worse then any opener in pak history deapite playing in a batting friendly era?
 
mominsaigol said:
Did I bring up KA? I never did. Also lol at then being thr greatest.

Your greatest openers have the worst wc performance out of every other opener who has ever played for Pakistan in the past.

Who told Bobby to avg 17 which is worse then any opener in pak history deapite playing in a batting friendly era?
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It was a very difficult tournament for openers because the pitches offered a lot of pace and bounce with new ball. Openers in general struggled throughout the tournament. In the same tournament-

KL Rahul Avg 21/ SR 120
Rohit 19/ 106
David Warner 11/105

Even the England(winners) openers struggled until they got to play on a complete road in Semi final against India.

Still I agree Babar's performances in last few tournaments should have been better.

I have read your post where you stated KA is better than Babar
 
Ahmed216 said:
It was a very difficult tournament for openers because the pitches offered a lot of pace and bounce with new ball. Openers in general struggled throughout the tournament. In the same tournament-

KL Rahul Avg 21/ SR 120
Rohit 19/ 106
David Warner 11/105

Even the England(winners) openers struggled until they got to play on a complete road in Semi final against India.

Still I agree Babar's performances in last few tournaments should have been better.

I have read your post where you stated KA is better than Babar
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I said rizwan not babar. Maybe I did a typo. But yes I stand by it. KA is better then rizwan considering the era he played an opened in.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Highest strike rate and the average for an Asian batter. One and only Babar Azam. He loves England.

phi8mq9.png
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I am surprised Malik averages 23 in England although it's T20😃 Dude averages in teens in SENA ODI's. But gives batting advice to Babar
 
Ahmed216 said:
It was a very difficult tournament for openers because the pitches offered a lot of pace and bounce with new ball. Openers in general struggled throughout the tournament. In the same tournament-

KL Rahul Avg 21/ SR 120
Rohit 19/ 106
David Warner 11/105

Even the England(winners) openers struggled until they got to play on a complete road in Semi final against India.

Still I agree Babar's performances in last few tournaments should have been better.

I have read your post where you stated KA is better than Babar
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Butler and hales must be playing on special grounds which allowed them to score freely
Even liton das and mendis had a better outing
 
The problem isn't as much a cricketing problem as people here would believe.

Gary Kirsten has already diagnosed the problem. Let's see if he can fix it. Both have a Messiah complex and believe their wickets are more important than the rest of the teams. They put too much of a price on themselves.

I don't think it's selfishness either. They just genuinely believe that this is the best strategy for Pakistan...and it's been confirmed by many yes men.

Hopefully Kirsten can help them unlock their game.
 
I don’t get it, why are these two allowed to learn on the job whilst everyone else is supposed to hit the ground running? Everyone else doesn’t have a monopoly on powerplay batting positions either!
 
Rana said:
I don’t get it, why are these two allowed to learn on the job whilst everyone else is supposed to hit the ground running? Everyone else doesn’t have a monopoly on powerplay batting positions either!
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Imagining claiming babar and rizwan our most senior players are still learning cricket.
 
Ahmed216 said:
I know that his strike rate in PSL is similar to that of international teams. But his teams plays the finals every year and that is all that matters. Pakistan made the semi final and final of last two World Cups with Rizwan as an opener which a team like India could not do.
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What are you trying to argue or prove? You seem confused.

First you said ‘these two would bat with more aggressive intent if we had a better middle order…”

I then countered this by clearly arguing that Rizwan’s sr is the same rubbish even on the flattest pitches in the world (PSL Pakistan) and with a middle order that has consisted of Russow, Pollard, Miller, Tim David, Malan, Usman Khan, Johnson Charles…

So that throws out ‘he would bat more freely if his middle order was strong…’ NO HE WOULD NOT BECAUSE HE IS INCAPABLE OF PLAYING LIKE A PROPER T20 OPENER

You then came up with ‘bUt HiS tEaM pLaYs FiNaLs”…

Yeah guess what, Sri Lanka played a final too in 2022 and embarrassed, exposed this fraud!
 
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Rana said:
What are you trying to argue or prove? You seem confused.

First you said ‘these two would bat with more aggressive intent if we had a better middle order…”

I then countered this nonsense by you by clearly arguing that Rizwan’s sr is the same rubbish even on the flattest pitches in the world (PSL Pakistan) and with a middle order that has consisted of Russow, Pollard, Miller, Tim David, Malan, Usman Khan, Johnson Charles…

So that throws out the rubbish of ‘he would bat more freely if his middle order was strong…’ NO HE WOULD NOT BECAUSE HE IS INCAPABLE OF PLAYING LIKE A PROPER T20 OPENER

You then came up with the nonsense of ‘bUt HiS tEaM pLaYs FiNaLs”…

Yeah guess what, Sri Lanka played a final too in 2022 and embarrassed, exposed this fraud! You should have learned your lesson that day and then if you truly cared about your country and team, instead of worshiping the falsehood to make just this leg-side one trick pony look good.
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I never said Rizwan is going to be striking at 140-45 with a better middle order for Pakistan. What I said is if we have a better middle for Pakistan that would help the openers play more freely because there seems to be thing in Pakistan camp now that they have to improve the SR.

Fraud or not he's been performing far better than your hero Sarfraz could dream of. He replaced Sarfraz so don't hold that grudge against him because he's here to stay. Your posting non-stop over here is not going to much of a difference.
Fakhar SR 132
Saim 130
Ifti 130
And all you care about is SR of a wicket keeper who averages almost double.of these guys. Exposes you actually
 
Ahmed216 said:
Fraud or not he's been performing far better than your hero Sarfraz could dream
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Sarfaraz is not my hero!!

The only Pakistan player who I rate and respect is Fakhar Zaman! He is the only one who I genuinely care about because he is Pakistan’s best player without a shadow of a doubt!

Sarfaraz was fine as a leader and someone who knew how to get the best out of his resources! And yes that means if he had to send Hassan Ali to bat ahead of him when the team required it!

Your 2 heroes have brought Pakistan down to the level of Bangladesh who also only relied on two players (Tamim and Shakib)…even though those two played for the team in the right positions that suited their team and not themselves!
 
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Rana said:
Sarfaraz is not my hero!!

The only Pakistan player who I rate and respect is Fakhar Zaman! He is the only one who I genuinely care about because he is Pakistan’s best player without a shadow of a doubt!

Sarfaraz was fine as a leader and someone who knew how to get the best out of his resources! And yes that means if he had to send Hassan Ali to bat ahead of him when the team required it!

Your 2 heroes have brought Pakistan down to the level of Bangladesh who also only relied on two players (Tamim and Shakib)…even though those two played for the team in the right positions that suited their team and not themselves!
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These boys think that we take a page out of their book and put sarfi posters on our wall so that we may worship them and say aislam a lei kum sarfi ullah.
 
Speaking on a local channel:

“I am criticising Babar’s poor strike rate and you will say your own strike rate was low. Let’s be clear. My slightly slower SR was our strategy at the time. We were playing in UAE and had a great spin attack at the time so 140 in T20 was a good enough score which is why the lower strike rate fit into the strategy.”

I think it makes a lot of sense. People keep quoting his strike rate which looks a bit low in modern context but it needs to be adjusted and probably in today’s era was be 1.5 times that.
 
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In my opinion both Babar and Rizwan need to stop being so stubborn, now I do expect them to open, but they shouldn’t be fearful about changing things up as needed, the best Pakistani tournament teams made the necessary adjustments to win the trophy.
 
Ahmad-GERMANFC said:
Speaking on a local channel:

“I am criticising Babar’s poor strike rate and you will say your own strike rate was low. Let’s be clear. My slightly slower SR was our strategy at the time. We were playing in UAE and had a great spin attack at the time so 140 in T20 was a good enough score which is why the lower strike rate fit into the strategy.”

I think it makes a lot of sense. People keep quoting his strike rate which looks a bit low in modern context but it needs to be adjusted and probably in today’s era was be 1.5 times that.
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Yeah that’s B.S

Shahzad wasn’t intentionally playing with a low sr. He wanted to play faster but didn’t know how to get out of a hole when dot balls built up on him. He wasn’t in control of how he wanted to approach the game.
 
Iv seen too many Pak collapses with the likes of azam Ifty Kushdil Nawaz Asif shadab talat Masood

Baba & rizwan have full permission bat till 19.2 overs give Fakhar the last over
 
Ahmad-GERMANFC said:
Speaking on a local channel:

“I am criticising Babar’s poor strike rate and you will say your own strike rate was low. Let’s be clear. My slightly slower SR was our strategy at the time. We were playing in UAE and had a great spin attack at the time so 140 in T20 was a good enough score which is why the lower strike rate fit into the strategy.”

I think it makes a lot of sense. People keep quoting his strike rate which looks a bit low in modern context but it needs to be adjusted and probably in today’s era was be 1.5 times that.
Click to expand...

I've seen Ahmed Shehzad play with my own eyes, and he was disappointing, often getting out with careless shots.

Ahmed Shehzad played between 2009 and 2017, with a strike rate of 88.55 in UAE (Sharjah and Dubai).

In contrast, Afghanistan's Shahzad Ahmed managed a strike rate of 149.87 between 2013 and 2017.

Meanwhile, Hafeez, Imran Nazir, and Imran Farhat all have strike rates around 105, and Sharjeel is 136.

even though i agree with his stance but not going to support him with lies
 
Rana said:
They depend on strike rotation and converting 1s into 2s. That’s their strength. They can’t improve on their strength.
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In addition to strike rotation, they should take their vitamins, say their prayers, wake up on time, have a good breakfast and cut a cake.
 
emranabbas said:
I've seen Ahmed Shehzad play with my own eyes, and he was disappointing, often getting out with careless shots.

Ahmed Shehzad played between 2009 and 2017, with a strike rate of 88.55 in UAE (Sharjah and Dubai).

In contrast, Afghanistan's Shahzad Ahmed managed a strike rate of 149.87 between 2013 and 2017.

Meanwhile, Hafeez, Imran Nazir, and Imran Farhat all have strike rates around 105, and Sharjeel is 136.

even though i agree with his stance but not going to support him with lies
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Smh

Did you not read the comments. He played at that strike rate because he was specifically asked to. He can obv play at a higher SR if he wanted
 
Ahmad-GERMANFC said:
Smh

Did you not read the comments. He played at that strike rate because he was specifically asked to. He can obv play at a higher SR if he wanted
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High SR in the recently concluded National T20

IMG_20240606_185027.jpg
Or wait... Was he asked specifically to bat at a lower SR by his domestic team?
 
Maybe if Rizwan finally accepted that its not against the rules to hit the ball offside during the powerplay
 
According to Ramiz Raja babar shouldnt worry about Strike rate. Babar ko istasna hasil hai.
 
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