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What is the reason for Pakistan's dismal record in Tests in Australia?

I was thinking about this as I revisited some of Ricky Ponting's comments on our squad.

"Probably the worst bowling attack on our shores in recent times."

Someone of his stature wouldn't be saying something unless it were true. Looking back in recent times, from the 2016 tour to Australia, our bowling attack comprised of Wahab Riaz, Sohail Khan, Mohammad Amir, and Yasir Shah. A 3 man fast-bowling line-up in Australia is a mockery of common sense, especially since Sohail Khan could have functioned as a 4th seamer. Regardless of that, we posted up some decent totals but failed to defend them. Our bowlers leaked too many runs, and part of the reason is that Yasir Shah conceded a double century with the ball. Having a main spinner in Australia is like shooting yourself in the foot, it is a waste of a slot if the spinner can't bat. That was the problem with the 2016 series, which was abysmal in it's own sense.

Moving on to the most catastrophic 2019 series, we see two consecutive innings defeats. This time around, both fronts, bowling and batting, were catastrophically poor. Shaheen Afridi was the only bowler who looked like he would challenge the Aussies, but with no support from the other end, they were able to negotiate him without taking too many risks. Our bowling line-up in the 2019 series comprised of Shaheen Shah Afridi, Naseem Shah, Musa Khan, Mohammad Abbas, Yasir Shah, Iftikhar Ahmed. They were all experimented with at different stages, and besides Shaheen, everyone else was utterly useless. Yasir Shah conceded another double century in the 2019 series without taking any crucial wickets that could have changed the game. Shaheen was wonderful but received no support. Naseem was raw and Musa showed us why we should not let him play another test match for a while. Batting was completely dismantled in Australian conditions, the top order failed miserably and it was left to the middle order to piece things together. Again, surprisingly, we played with no 4th seamer who functions as an all-rounder.

What we can conclude with this brief information is that:
1) You need to stop playing a frontline spinner in Australia. They leak runs, and besides from Lyon, no spinner in the current test match scene can bowl in Australia.

2) You have to play a 4th seaming all-rounder in place of the spinner to give some more overs of pace.

3) New ball skills have to get better, and line-length bowling has to improve.

4) Your fastest bowler should be used to target the body with short-pitched bowling as opposed to length. This is Naseem's strength and surprisingly, they didn't let him do this against England.

5) You need to have batsmen at least until 8. Tail-enders need to learn how to bat as well, so that 9, 10, 11 can contribute at least 30-40 runs combined.

6) If you do play a spinner, it should be in the form of an all-rounder who is used when needed. Shadab would be an excellent choice as he can contribute with the bat at no.7.

7) You need to show continuity in the bowling attack, it cannot change every two years. Initially, you will get destroyed if your bowlers are playing for the first time. But now, Shaheen, Naseem, and Abbas have played in Australia. They should be the fast-bowling unit for the next tour, along with the all-rounder.

8) The top order must have someone at no.3 who can also open in case of an early collapse. We need a player like Pujara to get himself set and hold the team together so that Babar, Rizwan, Haris can come in lower down and score runs and change the tempo as required.

9) One more solid middle-order batsman is required.

10) Lastly, but most importantly, we need the belief that we can win. Otherwise, we will not compete. We need emotion, character, grit, perseverance, and all the other attributes to win in Australia.

Share your thoughts on this.
 
[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION]

The three away bowling attacks to win a Test series in Australia in the last decade:

England 2010-11: 4 tall quicks plus 1 spinner
Anderson 6’3
Broad 6’6
Tremlett 6’7
Bresnan 6’0
Swann

South Africa 2012-13: five quicks, no spinner
Steyn
Philander
Morkel
Kleinveldt
Kallis

South Africa 2016-17: three quicks 1 spinner
Philander
Abbott
Rabada
Maharaj

I guess your theory has hit a wall here. Team India under coach Bharat Arun says height doesn't matter all that much!!!!

Bumrah 5'10" (of course he is going to be an ATG by the end of his career, so you have that argument)

Shami 5'9" (terrific quick, not in Bumrah class but very good)

Siraj 5'10"

Umesh 5'10"

Saini 5'9"

Thakur 5'8" (journeyman cricketer who outbowled all Aussie quicks at Gabba )

Natarajan 5'9" (net bowler who outbowled 6'6" Starc)

spinners Ashwin, Jadeja, Washington
 
This Test win in Australia gave us so much hope!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/OnThisDay?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#OnThisDay</a> in 1977. Pakistan's first Test victory in Australia as Imran Khan & Sarfraz Nawaz shared 18 wickets. Imran took 12 of those 18 & Asif Iqbal made a crucial 120. Pakistan were left needing only 32 to level the series & got there with 8 wickets left <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a> <a href="https://t.co/Vi6po25aXt">pic.twitter.com/Vi6po25aXt</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@SajSadiqCricket) <a href="https://twitter.com/SajSadiqCricket/status/1615643246285443072?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 18, 2023</a></blockquote>
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Apart from India and South Africa, all teams (including Pakistan) have dismal Test records in Australia.

Aussie grounds tend to be huge. So, teams often struggle. Also, extra bounce is always challenging for any subcontinental side.
 
I think Pakistan plays on pitches which are exactly opposite of Aussie pitches. Pakistani pitches are the most low bounce and no carry and pace off the wicket. Pakistani batsmen struggled even in UAE in Asia cup first match when the pitch was fresh and offered some pace.
 
I think Pakistan plays on pitches which are exactly opposite of Aussie pitches. Pakistani pitches are the most low bounce and no carry and pace off the wicket. Pakistani batsmen struggled even in UAE in Asia cup first match when the pitch was fresh and offered some pace.

Australian pitches are good for batters who like playing their shots and are attacking in nature especially on the back foot. And bowlers who are fast and like banging the ball, just short of a good length like the West Indians of the 80s, 90s or bowlers like Steyn, Donald etc. Swing bowlers hardly make an impact on these surfaces.

Over the years good batters have always enjoyed scoring in Australia and quality bowlers have taken wickets. It's only players like Boycott or a Misbah and Atherton who play the waiting game have struggled.

The problem is over the years our players have never prepared well for an Australian tour despite knowing well that they need to adjust their techniques. Our batters play the waiting grinding game rather than be attacking and our bowlers bowl like they are bowling in England, fast and full. Prime example was Waqar who was a faliure in Australia.

All in all in my opinion we hardly take an Australian tour seriously, it's never been on our priority list. We never have a camp a month prior to the series where we can strategize and plan ahead unlike the World Cup where we show too much interest. I remember in 1994/95 when we lost to Australia 2-1 our captain Wasim Akram made a statement in Australia that the reason for losing the series was because we were treating this series as a warm-up for the 1996 World Cup which was to begin two months after this tour. And in 1989/90 in the last moment we requested a change in the itinerary from a 5 Test match series to 3 Tests because of a home series against India. We finally reached Australia with hardly any practice and 4-day games to acclimatize.
 
Some of the test matches Pak have lost there are absolutely ridiculous, in 1 match Aus were 80 runs behind with 2 wickets remaining & still won.
Bookies paradise !
 
Pakistani team management and pacers need to study India's bowling tactics under Bharat Arun on the 2021 tour. A ruthless relentless non stop off stump, middle stump wide of crease full or just short of a good length relentless line, length bowling spells for 100 plus overs with a leg slip, mid on, fielders on the leg side, bowlers bowling with the clear plan ie no cuts, no pulls, no drives on the off side, we are going to bowl 30-40 consecutive maidens but we will not deviate from our plan and if the batsman wants to take a risk by shuffling across the stumps or flicking the ball in the air then nothing like it. India executed this plan to the T with all of their Tier A to D bowlers. It was the most beautiful piece of planning ever from a visiting side to Australia. They just single handedly proved that you don't need pace bounce in Australia but you need proper tactical planning and determination.

Pakistan so often starts of bowling tightly with the new ball and the Australian batsmen know full well they just have to wait out the pacers who will tire, get frustrated or come under pressure and will be forced to strive for wickets eventually later on thereby spraying the ball everywhere in the process.

Pakistan needs to study India's bowling template on the 2021 tour to turn around their fortunes. Restricting Australia to 300-350 runs maximum is the key to victory in Australia
 
This dismal record is more because of the bowlers. In 80s it was imran and wasim, in 90s it was only wasim and in 2000s it was only Asif who seems somewhat aware about how to bowl in those conditions. All others were absolutely trash in Australia.
 
Not just Pakistan

Since 1999 tour when Pakistan started their 14 loss streak

West Indies 16 matches 14 lost 2 draw
Srilanka 9 matches 8 lost 1 draw
New zealand 15 matches 1 won 10 lost 4 draw
England 30 matches 23 lost 4 won 3 draw

SA is the only country that has similar conditions to Australia. Australia is an alien country for everyone else.
 
Bounce, PK batsmen just can't handle it and PK bowlers don't seem to take advantage of it either, apart from 6'6'' Sarfraz Nawaz, 6'3'' Wasim Akram, and 6'4'' Mohammed Asif (for India I guess 6'4'' Ishant Sharma was effective as well.)

Didn't check the stats but does seem you have to be over 1m90 to be successful in AUS and perhaps this explains why their own bowlers are generally over that height, as a form of natural selection in their domestic set-up.

What's even more intriguing is that not only PK seems unable to win but it also seems unable to draw as well (unlike other "losers" in AUS).
 
Pakistan's poor bowling and fielding are the 2 reasons. Pak batsmen have always punched above their weight in Australia and it can be easily found studying the scorecards
 
Australian pitches are good for batters who like playing their shots and are attacking in nature especially on the back foot. And bowlers who are fast and like banging the ball, just short of a good length like the West Indians of the 80s, 90s or bowlers like Steyn, Donald etc. Swing bowlers hardly make an impact on these surfaces.

Over the years good batters have always enjoyed scoring in Australia and quality bowlers have taken wickets. It's only players like Boycott or a Misbah and Atherton who play the waiting game have struggled.

The problem is over the years our players have never prepared well for an Australian tour despite knowing well that they need to adjust their techniques. Our batters play the waiting grinding game rather than be attacking and our bowlers bowl like they are bowling in England, fast and full. Prime example was Waqar who was a faliure in Australia.

All in all in my opinion we hardly take an Australian tour seriously, it's never been on our priority list. We never have a camp a month prior to the series where we can strategize and plan ahead unlike the World Cup where we show too much interest. I remember in 1994/95 when we lost to Australia 2-1 our captain Wasim Akram made a statement in Australia that the reason for losing the series was because we were treating this series as a warm-up for the 1996 World Cup which was to begin two months after this tour. And in 1989/90 in the last moment we requested a change in the itinerary from a 5 Test match series to 3 Tests because of a home series against India. We finally reached Australia with hardly any practice and 4-day games to acclimatize.

Can't believe. How any captain can take a full fletched test series in Australia as a warm up for ODI world cup. Its just an excuse to defend your failures.
 
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Pakistan's poor bowling and fielding are the 2 reasons. Pak batsmen have always punched above their weight in Australia and it can be easily found studying the scorecards

Yes more often than not it's been the bowlers who have banged it in short and bowled to the strengths of the home batters.
 
Pakistan's poor bowling and fielding are the 2 reasons. Pak batsmen have always punched above their weight in Australia and it can be easily found studying the scorecards

Yasir Shah made a 100. Pitching up rewards you. Irfan Pathan won the Perth test for India with his swing. Ironically Wasim Akram was the commentator in that match.
 
Because of 1999. That 3-0 was a freak result because the first 2 tests were very competitive and Pakistan were in the driving seat of the Hobart and should have won that match. Aussies were the better team for sure, but not to the tune of a 3-0 margin. It was what it was and it happened.

However, it seemed this became an excuse for all the subsequent tours. “Well our legendary 1999 team lost 3-0 so don’t blame us.”

In fact that’s the exact excuse loser Misbah used in 2017. Never mind that the Aussie team of 1999 was an ATG team and the 2017 team was nowhere near that level. The last 2 tours with Misbah at the helm as either captain or coach, they didn’t even attempt to compete. I loved Ian Chappel’s scathing commentary of Misbah’s captaincy.

The 2004/5 tour was a bit of an exception to that and plagued with injuries and counter injuries. Shoaib bowling just over one innings in the first 2 matches. Inzi dropped out of the last 2 tests. I don’t know what the truth was, but there were suggestions Inzi’s injury wasn’t particularly serious especially for such important games. He could have not wanted to captain what he deemed a certain whitewash or he wanted to protest at what he deemed about shoaib getting injured.

The Sydney test of 2009/10 obviously very dodgy and we’ll never know what the truth was - some of us have a pretty good idea. However, they were never winning that series, but they could have put the whitewash monkey off our back like they eventually did in the “neutral home series” in England in 2010
 
I remember checking a long time ago that before the 1999 tour to Aus, Pakistan had an equal number of wins in both ODIs and tests against Australia from a H2H perspective.

Since that tour in both formats Australia have absolutely decimated our team barring the occasional Pakistan win.
 
There was a stat posted on here not too long ago that out of all test playing nations, Pakistan has the pitches with the lowest bounce.

The common assumption here is to blame the batsmen, but having such a variance in bounce between Pakistan and Australia has also made it tough for our bowlers to adjust in recent times. When they go to Australia they may end up getting carried away and then end up leaking runs
 
So here are the facts

In Tests:

37 matches

Australia have won 26 times
Pakistan have won 4 times
There have been 7 drawn games

What is the reason for this record?

Surely we had the best players playing in these games - likes of Wasim Akram, Imran Khan etc?

Lack of test matches in Australia. Australian pitches are challenging for Asian Batsmen, who are not use to extra bounce.
One way of doing that is to play in Australian Domestic cricket. This is more for the batsmen than bowlers,
because it is extra bounce that throws their game off completely. No better example than India, India used to get whitewashed in Austrlia but they improved their game. By regularly playing against Australia at home and in Australia.
Now it is highly unlikely that Australia will start playing Pakistan for 4 or 5 test home series. But Pakistani batsmen can play in Australian domestic and not just the BBL.
 
Lack of test matches in Australia. Australian pitches are challenging for Asian Batsmen, who are not use to extra bounce.
One way of doing that is to play in Australian Domestic cricket. This is more for the batsmen than bowlers,
because it is extra bounce that throws their game off completely. No better example than India, India used to get whitewashed in Austrlia but they improved their game. By regularly playing against Australia at home and in Australia.
Now it is highly unlikely that Australia will start playing Pakistan for 4 or 5 test home series. But Pakistani batsmen can play in Australian domestic and not just the BBL.

All the time? No

1999 0-3
2003 1-1
2007 1-2
2011 0-4
2012 0-2
2014 2-1
2018 2-1

Only two white washes in 7 series. Actually India had a chance to white wash Australia 3-0 in 1985. Australia escaped with a bit of luck.
 
Pakistan bowling wilted any time opposition attacked. Australia was able to pile big runs. 27 centuries by Australia in 14 tests against Pakistan since this streak. Pakistan instead scored only 11 centuries against Australian bowling.

Top/Middle order performance against different teams since 1999 streak. Pakistan's bowling is one of the worst. Australian 1-7 average 60 against Pakistan. Batting alone is not the reason.

Screenshot-2023-01-22-215112.jpg
 
There was a stat posted on here not too long ago that out of all test playing nations, Pakistan has the pitches with the lowest bounce.

The common assumption here is to blame the batsmen, but having such a variance in bounce between Pakistan and Australia has also made it tough for our bowlers to adjust in recent times. When they go to Australia they may end up getting carried away and then end up leaking runs

I’ve watched a lot of Pakistan in Australia and the bounce wasn’t much of an issue for our batsmen pre the mid 2000s and even in the following years it was bad, but not glaring. It looked quite glaring on the 2017 tour, 2020 tour and it was probably the worst I’ve ever seen in the recent t20 World Cup.
 
Pakistan bowling wilted any time opposition attacked. Australia was able to pile big runs. 27 centuries by Australia in 14 tests against Pakistan since this streak. Pakistan instead scored only 11 centuries against Australian bowling.

Top/Middle order performance against different teams since 1999 streak. Pakistan's bowling is one of the worst. Australian 1-7 average 60 against Pakistan. Batting alone is not the reason.

View attachment 118468

As I remember it Pakistan had Oz on the rack in Hobart before Gilchrist announced himself as a star with a match winner.

On later tours Pakistan bowlers had Australia decimated in Sydney- all but beaten before K Akmal dropped a sitter off Sami, then collected a run out but just paused for 3 seconds instead of removing the bails and missed some catches /stumpings off Kaneiria... Make of that what you will.

So it wasn't always the bowling at fault. One atg innings and one I don't know what to say...
 
All the time? No

1999 0-3
2003 1-1
2007 1-2
2011 0-4
2012 0-2
2014 2-1
2018 2-1

Only two white washes in 7 series. Actually India had a chance to white wash Australia 3-0 in 1985. Australia escaped with a bit of luck.

My Apologies for exaggerating.
 
9 months ago before Pakistan team suffers another humiliation on Australian soil in tests.

Is there anything we can do this year to avoid defeat? I am pretty sure the team think tank are sleeping on this.
 
Nothing more painful than watching Pakistan in Australia. We don’t have a single fast bowler aside from Shaheen, who himself has had an average test career at best. Batting doesn’t look that bad tbh.
 
Nothing more painful than watching Pakistan in Australia. We don’t have a single fast bowler aside from Shaheen, who himself has had an average test career at best. Batting doesn’t look that bad tbh.

Ihsanullah should make debut in tests he has played domestic aswell.
 
9 months ago before Pakistan team suffers another humiliation on Australian soil in tests.

Is there anything we can do this year to avoid defeat? I am pretty sure the team think tank are sleeping on this.

PCB no longer cares about Test cricket. Neither do the fans or the players. Pakistan tours result in losses for most boards and the only Test tours that are maybe profitable for PCB are England and Australia.

Don't think anyone should have any expectations of the Australia tour.
 
PCB no longer cares about Test cricket. Neither do the fans or the players. Pakistan tours result in losses for most boards and the only Test tours that are maybe profitable for PCB are England and Australia.

Don't think anyone should have any expectations of the Australia tour.

If that is the case then why not send a junior team
 
I spoke about this in my interview here. The conditions in Pak are totally different to what they have in Australia. It does not help when our already vulnerable batsmen have poor shot selection, technique and temperament. It is our batting much more then the bowling that struggles down under. I could go on and on but you get the picture.
 
Another whitewash is awaiting. Unlike the big three, nowadays we hardly play any Test cricket. And most importantly our best players prefer international T20 cricket and leagues. So, when your best players don't play the 4-day format you end up picking average cricketers who play and perform well in the domestic 4-day championship. These players are not fit for Test cricket, prime examples are Mohammed Ali and Zahid Mahmood.

I'm sure our selectors will pick a team based on domestic performances when we tour Australia. I'm not sure even Shaheen will make an impact on Australian pitches, even at Perth.
3-0 to Australia.
 
If Pakistan play this team they can win 1 game.

Abdullah Shafique
Imaam Ul Haq
Saud Shakeel
Babar Azam
Kamran Ghulam
Rizwan
Mubasir Khan (all rounder)
Shaheen Afridi
Naseem Shah
Arshad Iqbal
Ihsanullah
 
If Pakistan play this team they can win 1 game.

Abdullah Shafique
Imaam Ul Haq
Saud Shakeel
Babar Azam
Kamran Ghulam
Rizwan
Mubasir Khan (all rounder)
Shaheen Afridi
Naseem Shah
Arshad Iqbal
Ihsanullah

No they won’t different batters have technical issues on bouncy wickets and playing defensive cricket there is even worse than at home this team isn’t winning any tests in Australia unless the fast bowlers do something special.
 
Current Australian side in current form is very hard to beat in Australia. Pitch will be flat. But their bowlers will be superior on those tracks.
 
Apart from our batsmen our fast bowlers in general (exceptions Imran Khan/Wasim Akram) have also struggled there. I expected Waqar Younis and Shoaib Akhtar to have good records over there.
 
Apart from our batsmen our fast bowlers in general (exceptions Imran Khan/Wasim Akram) have also struggled there. I expected Waqar Younis and Shoaib Akhtar to have good records over there.

Both were abject failures not only in Australia but also overall against Australia.
 
Upcoming tour is best opportunity for pakistan to win in australia , as their biggest nemis David Warner is not in good form.
 
Last two tours it's been our bowling. Guys like shami, bhumrah, and siraj have taken wickets. We need to follow their template. It's a blessing that Shaheen and Naseem have already gone there so they would have a clue on how to bowl.
 
If Pakistan play this team they can win 1 game.

Abdullah Shafique
Imaam Ul Haq
Saud Shakeel
Babar Azam
Kamran Ghulam
Rizwan
Mubasir Khan (all rounder)
Shaheen Afridi
Naseem Shah
Arshad Iqbal
Ihsanullah

Abdullah Shafique, Imam Ul-Haq, Saud Shakeel and Kamran Ghulam are all very defensive players. In this age 'playing to survive' as Shane Warne use to say is not the way to go. And in Australia its especially even more crucial to 'play to score runs' rather than 'play to survive'.

Plus lets take into account the conditions. I don't like to rely QeA stats, performance.

However, at the end of this year, the likes of Steve Smith, Mitchell Starc, David Warner, Usman Khawaja, Nathan Lyon will be quite old, and maybe just perhaps on their decline, and since they are transitioning to the younger players (Labuschagne, Green, Murphy), I think this will be one of the weaker Australia teams that Pakistan will tour. However, in saying this, Australia will probably still win comfortably.
 
Yes more often than not it's been the bowlers who have banged it in short and bowled to the strengths of the home batters.

Yes most of the responsibility lies with the bowlers. Our two best opportunities to win in the 25 years were Melbourne 2010 and Hobart 1999. Putting aside the umpiring and fixing issues/accusations it was the bowlers that couldn’t finish the job off for us.

When Azhar scored a double it was the bowlers that got carted around the park at 5 per over that cost us that test. You need to maintain discipline on length in Aus our fast bowler don’t do that consistently. We are always either too full or too short.
 
I spoke about this in my interview here. The conditions in Pak are totally different to what they have in Australia. It does not help when our already vulnerable batsmen have poor shot selection, technique and temperament. It is our batting much more then the bowling that struggles down under. I could go on and on but you get the picture.

It's the opposite.

In the last 25 years, our bowling average (52.85) in AUS is only better than WI, BAN and ZIM.

Our batting average (26.65) is middle of the pack.
 
Misbah ensured that Pakistan does not win anything on 3 tours as the coach, captain, and batsman.

Overall, Pakistan loses in Australia due to fielding a team of mentally and physically weak cricketers.

You need tough cricketers who can compete against sledging Aussies in massive stadiums.

You need bowlers who can bowl long spells with accuracy and keep the run rate low.

You need batsmen who are not afraid to play their shots and maintain a healthy run rate.
 
Abdullah Shafique, Imam Ul-Haq, Saud Shakeel and Kamran Ghulam are all very defensive players. In this age 'playing to survive' as Shane Warne use to say is not the way to go. And in Australia its especially even more crucial to 'play to score runs' rather than 'play to survive'.

Plus lets take into account the conditions. I don't like to rely QeA stats, performance.

However, at the end of this year, the likes of Steve Smith, Mitchell Starc, David Warner, Usman Khawaja, Nathan Lyon will be quite old, and maybe just perhaps on their decline, and since they are transitioning to the younger players (Labuschagne, Green, Murphy), I think this will be one of the weaker Australia teams that Pakistan will tour. However, in saying this, Australia will probably still win comfortably.

The weakest side still won a test in India and drawn one not to bad for a weak side.

Imaam is not totally defensive player he has an okay Strike rate in odis.Abdullah can play aggressively but it's what the management want them to play (Risk Free).
 
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