What is the ultimate goal of Hindu fascists?

[DeadlyVenom]

Very simple question.

What are their aims and ambitions both in India and beyond?

 

[Technics 1210]

From my understanding their motive is simple, India is exclusively for Hindus.

 

[Slog]

To turn India into a 100% Hindu country. This is what one Indian once told me

 

[Syed1]

To turn India into a 100% Hindu country. This is what one Indian once told me

If somebody attempts that then that will be the end of India because a major chunk of their armed forces are Sikh.

 

[Pakpak]

If somebody attempts that then that will be the end of India because a major chunk of their armed forces are Sikh.

I think they don't see Sikhism as a truly separate religion.

 

[Kroll]

If somebody attempts that then that will be the end of India because a major chunk of their armed forces are Sikh.

Some of the Hindutva project Sikhs as part of the Hindu mainstream much to the chagrin of Sikh leaders and community.

 

[rhony]

Hinduism is not even a religion. Even India's PM Modi said that. It's just a way of life. Making India 100 percent Hindu is a myth.
It's all about nationalism. Religion doesn't matter as long as people are patriotic. Lack of patriotism is always attributed to religion though.

Muslims consider religion as their first identity and then country, second. This doesn't go well with nationalists. This is not only in India. People talk about the same in US as well. People question the loyalties for the same reason.

What nationalists want is the glory of old India which was considered the richest in the world. That is why you see references to that time and how technologically advanced India was, irrespective of facts.

Nationalism is patriotism albeit with false notions and a burning desire to be accepted as an elite nation by one and all. Anyone one who doesn't follow that rhetoric is a traitor. That's why a liberal be it Hindu or Muslim or christian is the biggest enemy of a nationalist. Typically non majority religions in the world support liberal groups be it in USA, China, India or anywhere in the world. That's why it takes the color of religion but it's not entirely about religion.

A Salman or Amir Kahn gets patronage as long as he is seen as an unconditional lover of his country. His religious identity is immaterial. As soon as he says something that puts the country in bad light, he's considered a traitor and then it's perceived that's the case because he is a Muslim.

 

[Syed1]

Some of the Hindutva project Sikhs as part of the Hindu mainstream much to the chagrin of Sikh leaders and community.

Ok not to forget their 15-20% pop is Muslim... to achieve 100% Hinduism will they start genocide?

 

[Pakistanian]

This

 

[Sachin136]

Hinduism is not even a religion. Even India's PM Modi said that. It's just a way of life. Making India 100 percent Hindu is a myth.
It's all about nationalism. Religion doesn't matter as long as people are patriotic. Lack of patriotism is always attributed to religion though.

Muslims consider religion as their first identity and then country, second. This doesn't go well with nationalists. This is not only in India. People talk about the same in US as well. People question the loyalties for the same reason.

What nationalists want is the glory of old India which was considered the richest in the world. That is why you see references to that time and how technologically advanced India was, irrespective of facts.

Nationalism is patriotism albeit with false notions and a burning desire to be accepted as an elite nation by one and all. Anyone one who doesn't follow that rhetoric is a traitor. That's why a liberal be it Hindu or Muslim or christian is the biggest enemy of a nationalist. Typically non majority religions in the world support liberal groups be it in USA, China, India or anywhere in the world. That's why it takes the color of religion but it's not entirely about religion.

A Salman or Amir Kahn gets patronage as long as he is seen as an unconditional lover of his country. His religious identity is immaterial. As soon as he says something that puts the country in bad light, he's considered a traitor and then it's perceived that's the case because he is a Muslim.

Exactly. This forum goes crazy over these Hindu nationalists who want to get rid of all Muslims, but I don't know a single person who wants that. Most people here aren't in India either so I doubt they know a person like that either. So I'm confused at to what keeps propelling this myth.

Now if someone is breaking the law or making anti-India statements, then of course they will face some hate (especially online). It doesn't matter if they're Hindu, Muslim, Christian, etc.

In fact, people all over the world spew hate towards others just because they may support a different political party. Many liberals think that Republicans are racists, fascists, etc. Does that mean they hate all Christians? Of course not (though there is an anti-religion sentiment in the US among certain groups).

Though I am not sure about the "Muslims consider religion as their first identity and then country, second" part. Most Indian Muslims I know are very patriotic and support India wholeheartedely. And typically we don't come across situations where we have to pick between religion and country.

 

[Kroll]

Ok not to forget their 15-20% pop is Muslim... to achieve 100% Hinduism will they start genocide?

If they could, I wouldn't put it past them.

 

[Pak Warrior]

To turn India into a 100% Hindu country. This is what one Indian once told me

Yes that is correct. Think Hitler's Germany with a master race of pure germans, now translate that into Indian subcontinent with Modis India with a master race of hindus.

 

[slipcatch]

Make India Hindu Again.

Want hegemony over pre-partiand countries.

Current lunatic leadership of India and paid media miss-guided Indians into believing that Pakistan will roll over when they use force, would be successful in isolating Pakistan from every corner.

People of India believed that, partially it has to do with banning Pakistani player from playing in India and BCCI dictating their terms.

I am sure sensible and reasonable Indians understand that I’m only talking about Bhakths.

In past 5 years India has taken a nose dive towards extremism in terms of hate, blindly believing in extreme narrative from their politicians and media.

In past 5 or 10 years Pakistan has slowly getting out of extreme views, stop believing in corrupt politicians, started to believe in peace and talks are the only solution to the conflict with its neighbors.

Now please do not start posting articles where how Pakistani minority are still subjected to discrimination, I said slowly.

 

[Kroll]

Though I am not sure about the "Muslims consider religion as their first identity and then country, second" part. Most Indian Muslims I know are very patriotic and support India wholeheartedely.

And look how they were treated by Modi, the RSS, VHP etc in Gujarat for this loyalty.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Exactly. This forum goes crazy over these Hindu nationalists who want to get rid of all Muslims, but I don't know a single person who wants that. Most people here aren't in India either so I doubt they know a person like that either. So I'm confused at to what keeps propelling this myth.

Now if someone is breaking the law or making anti-India statements, then of course they will face some hate (especially online). It doesn't matter if they're Hindu, Muslim, Christian, etc.

In fact, people all over the world spew hate towards others just because they may support a different political party. Many liberals think that Republicans are racists, fascists, etc. Does that mean they hate all Christians? Of course not (though there is an anti-religion sentiment in the US among certain groups).

Though I am not sure about the "Muslims consider religion as their first identity and then country, second" part. Most Indian Muslims I know are very patriotic and support India wholeheartedely. And typically we don't come across situations where we have to pick between religion and country.

An interesting point but if its just nationalism without a religious tint why does there seem to be an increased tolerance towards those who lynch and murder alleged beef eaters?

 

[PetroDollars]

they are fighting for ashokas india - akhand bharat.

 

[rhony]

An interesting point but if its just nationalism without a religious tint why does there seem to be an increased tolerance towards those who lynch and murder alleged beef eaters?

It's politics. Out of 200 million how many muslims have been lynched for eating beef? Liberals pick up on these things against any nationalist govt. Same here in the US against Trump. Similarly, nationalists paint the liberals as traitors.

 

[Sachin136]

An interesting point but if its just nationalism without a religious tint why does there seem to be an increased tolerance towards those who lynch and murder alleged beef eaters?

It's a country of more than a billion people, so there are bound to be some despicable isolated incidents. Say that 0.1% of a population is crazy. In a country of 10 million that's just 10000 people. In a country of 1 billion, that's 1 million people. So it makes sense that there are more of these crazy occurrences in India simply due to it's population. Unfortunately there will always be some people who will lynch others for eating beef, or shoot someone because they got annoyed at them.

But unless a sizeable % of the population has a strong dislike for Muslims (at the moment there is no evidence to support that), it doesn't make sense to generalize or think that "Hindu fascism" is on the rise.

Even as far as nationalism goes, apart from social media, most people don't go around spewing hate towards someone just because they have anti-India sentiments (unless they're someone famous like a political figure).

 

[rhony]

The problem in India is that the Muslims have failed to form a national party to voice their concerns. 200 million is more than the population of many countries but it's a shame they don't have proper representation in national politics. It could be because of infighting or because they have been used by pawns by many secular parties for votes.

 

[PakLFC]

Akhand Bharat is their ridiculous goal. Some of them even see Mecca and Medina being part off it. There are many BJP Muslim's who believe in this as well.

 

[gazza619]

It's a country of more than a billion people, so there are bound to be some despicable isolated incidents. Say that 0.1% of a population is crazy. In a country of 10 million that's just 10000 people. In a country of 1 billion, that's 1 million people. So it makes sense that there are more of these crazy occurrences in India simply due to it's population. Unfortunately there will always be some people who will lynch others for eating beef, or shoot someone because they got annoyed at them.

But unless a sizeable % of the population has a strong dislike for Muslims (at the moment there is no evidence to support that), it doesn't make sense to generalize or think that "Hindu fascism" is on the rise.

Even as far as nationalism goes, apart from social media, most people don't go around spewing hate towards someone just because they have anti-India sentiments (unless they're someone famous like a political figure).

Is there no solution to control these fanatics? Are the law enforcing agencies helpless?

 

[slipcatch]

Another point.

I see most Indian get bent out of shape when someone point out ‘fascist Hindu’.

And go into full defense mode, this is what Pakistani used to do it about radicalized extremists Muslims, I’m not saying it has totally stop in Pakistan but majority of Pakistani understood they need to take back their religion and narrative from these lunatics.

 

[Sachin136]

Is there no solution to control these fanatics? Are the law enforcing agencies helpless?

It depends but from my experience, law enforcement is pretty inept. And even then, they can only do something after the crime has been committed.

This isn't limited to India or Asia. It is hard to stop crimes altogether. There will always be some despicable or mentally deranged people and there isn't much you can do to prevent it. Even in developed countries you hear about hate crimes, parents murdering their kids, mass shooters, etc.

 

[sjahmed23]

They were ruled by others british then muslims before that for many centuries, I guess the goal is to somehow make up for the lost times. But the problem is their best and brightest don't go into public service they move abroad so they are left with guys like Modi and armed forces made up of those who couldn' t get IT jobs.

 

[Kroll]

Is there no solution to control these fanatics? Are the law enforcing agencies helpless?

Some of these fanatics are very powerful and the law enforcement will be in cahoots with them.

 

[Technics 1210]

It's a country of more than a billion people, so there are bound to be some despicable isolated incidents. Say that 0.1% of a population is crazy. In a country of 10 million that's just 10000 people. In a country of 1 billion, that's 1 million people. So it makes sense that there are more of these crazy occurrences in India simply due to it's population. Unfortunately there will always be some people who will lynch others for eating beef, or shoot someone because they got annoyed at them.

But unless a sizeable % of the population has a strong dislike for Muslims (at the moment there is no evidence to support that), it doesn't make sense to generalize or think that "Hindu fascism" is on the rise.

Even as far as nationalism goes, apart from social media, most people don't go around spewing hate towards someone just because they have anti-India sentiments (unless they're someone famous like a political figure).

Right, so if you are going to use the bad apples metaphor as a defense, then the same applies to the bad apples of Pakistan - yet Pakistan is accused of harbouring terrorism because of a minority?

 

[Technics 1210]

Ok not to forget their 15-20% pop is Muslim... to achieve 100% Hinduism will they start genocide?

Why do you think Modi is cosying up to Israel? For tips!

 

[Sachin136]

Right, so if you are going to use the bad apples metaphor as a defense, then the same applies to the bad apples of Pakistan - yet Pakistan is accused of harbouring terrorism because of a minority?

Pakistan is accused of that because they know the whereabouts of terrorists, but still defend and aid them. But just because there are many Muslim or Pakistani terrorists, people don't generalize to say that most Muslims or Pakistanis are terrorists.

If the Indian government was sponsoring those lynchers (not sure how that would work, but it's just an example), then sure.

 

[rhony]

Why do you think Modi is cosying up to Israel? For tips!

Isn't Modi cozying up to Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh, UAE too??

 

[Technics 1210]

Pakistan is accused of that because they know the whereabouts of terrorists, but still defend and aid them. But just because there are many Muslim or Pakistani terrorists, people don't generalize to say that most Muslims or Pakistanis are terrorists.

If the Indian government was sponsoring those lynchers (not sure how that would work, but it's just an example), then sure.

The Indian government knows the whereabouts of Saffron terrorists, and equally funds them, and sponsors them and worships them too! Godse’s portrait is visible in prominent BJP offices. How many Saffron terrorists have faced punishment or are they immune from prosecution?

My point was simple, India is quick to generalise Pakistan because of the actions of a few nutters, note I said few, with respect to the population, yet fail to address the rise of Hindutva (Saffron terrorism) in India, therefore it is clear to me, that the Indian government does indeed harbour terrorists. This is not a statement of generalisation, but a statement based on lucid facts.

 

[Technics 1210]

Isn't Modi cozying up to Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Bangladesh, UAE too??

No.

 

[rhony]

No.

Read up on it.

 

[Sachin136]

They were ruled by others british then muslims before that for many centuries, I guess the goal is to somehow make up for the lost times. But the problem is their best and brightest don't go into public service they move abroad so they are left with guys like Modi and armed forces made up of those who couldn' t get IT jobs.

You don't have to be very bright to get into a random MS program in the states, you just need to be able to afford it.

Plenty of intelligent people stay in India, and plenty of them are public servants. The "brain drain" isn't unique to India. The US is the place to be if you're in software or finance, and many top graduates go there from Canada or Europe. If you're working as a Big N, unicorn or a top hedge fund, salaries are just much higher in the US. That doesn't mean everyone who stays back is unintelligent.

 

[Technics 1210]

Read up on it.

No, I think you should. India tried to sign a military deal with Israel, not the rest of the countries you mention.

Happy to provide references for your homework.

 

[JaDed]

To make aloo samosa the national dish.

 

[rhony]

No, I think you should. India tried to sign a military deal with Israel, not the rest of the countries you mention.

Happy to provide references for your homework.

There wasn't a discussion on military deals. You said India is cozying up to Israel. I mentioned India is cozying up with other Islamic nations as well. The reasons could be different in each case. Military and diplomatic reasons with Israel, Energy security with SA and Iran. Border relations with BD etc

 

[Technics 1210]

There wasn't a discussion on military deals. You said India is cozying up to Israel. I mentioned India is cozying up with other Islamic nations as well. The reasons could be different in each case. Military and diplomatic reasons with Israel, Energy security with SA and Iran. Border relations with BD etc

You are wrong.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...issile-defence-order/articleshow/66347348.cms

When India is looking for a military deal, that is cosying up. The rest is just a smokescreen to give us the impression Modi sees Muslims as equals. Clearly it has worked.

 

[ElRaja]

to maintain power to ensure the primacy of the hindus in the social structure imo.

 

[rhony]

You are wrong.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...issile-defence-order/articleshow/66347348.cms

When India is looking for a military deal, that is cosying up. The rest is just a smokescreen to give us the impression Modi sees Muslims as equals. Clearly it has worked.

The discussion is about the endgame of Hindu radicals. India is cozying up to a bunch of countries not just Israel. Arms deals are less important than diplomatic clout and energy security.

Now coming to the point of Hindu radicals, I already posted my views on that specific topic.

 

[CricketCartoons]

To establish God's law in the country instead of the man made laws. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Stewie]

To make aloo samosa the national dish.

Nothing weong with that!!!! I love aloo samosas ������

 

[Technics 1210]

The discussion is about the endgame of Hindu radicals. India is cozying up to a bunch of countries not just Israel. Arms deals are less important than diplomatic clout and energy security.

Now coming to the point of Hindu radicals, I already posted my views on that specific topic.

I know what this thread is about but it seems you have missed the point.

The end game of the Hindutva government to turn India into a 100% Hindu nation, and what better way to learn the process in achieving this goal than to cosy up to Israel, simply because Israel is the yardstick when it comes to human rights and apartheid - notwithstanding the special relationship between India (Hindutva) and Israel (Zionists).

 

[big_gamer007]

Only one word: Power

 

[Bhaijaan]

The whole idea of Hindutva is to project and maintain status of BJP as the one true representative of Hindus in India.

It is NOT about expansionism.

It is NOT about altering India’s demography.

It is all about consolidating majority vote bank in BJP’s favour, making it the only possibility for them to beat Congress who have truly been a giant in Indian politics

BJP is at its peak today and yet Congress is reviving and making its way to the top, that’s how weak the Hindutva concept is.

Let us not forget the BJP only has 32% voters in its favours. If the other 68% votes consolidate to vote for a single opposition party most probably Congress, their time will be up.

Unfortunately we might not be there yet. Congress’s revival is real but the indications seem to suggest they are willing to sit in the opposition for another term. Making compromises today with allies will only hurt and weaken Congress in the longer run.

 

[Greenstorm]

they are fighting for ashokas india - akhand bharat.

This. They are following Chanakya's teachings to achieve their ambition.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

The whole idea of Hindutva is to project and maintain status of BJP as the one true representative of Hindus in India.

It is NOT about expansionism.

It is NOT about altering India’s demography.

It is all about consolidating majority vote bank in BJP’s favour, making it the only possibility for them to beat Congress who have truly been a giant in Indian politics

BJP is at its peak today and yet Congress is reviving and making its way to the top, that’s how weak the Hindutva concept is.

Let us not forget the BJP only has 32% voters in its favours. If the other 68% votes consolidate to vote for a single opposition party most probably Congress, their time will be up.

Unfortunately we might not be there yet. Congress’s revival is real but the indications seem to suggest they are willing to sit in the opposition for another term. Making compromises today with allies will only hurt and weaken Congress in the longer run.

If there was a magic wand that ensured BJP would remain in power indefinitely, taking away the need for appealing to a vote bank. What would they do then and how will hindustan change.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Unfortunately we might not be there yet. Congress’s revival is real but the indications seem to suggest they are willing to sit in the opposition for another term. Making compromises today with allies will only hurt and weaken Congress in the longer run.

Congress will never come into power from here on as long as the Italian Waitress is in charge and her son in nappies, baby Raul Clown Gandhi is around....

 

[Bhaijaan]

If there was a magic wand that ensured BJP would remain in power indefinitely, taking away the need for appealing to a vote bank. What would they do then and how will hindustan change.

It will never happen.

We need to realize its been barely 4-5 years of BJP rule and half of India's already mad with him. Don't let the TV and social media rhetoric confuse you. Modi has as many haters as he has blind worshipers in India.

Since independence, Congress, a secular party has held power for nearly 90% of the time. For BJP, power is still new, and from what we see they are struggling to hold on to it with dignity. They seem desperate, which is the sign of weakness not strength.

India is a country like none else and as hard as BJP tries, Indian nationalism does not mean Hindu nationalism. Even amongst the hindus, this country is divided by caste, colour, language, cultures etc. A hindu of north India has very little in common with a hindu from south India.

In Maharashtra, local hindus beat up north Indian workers on daily basis as they oppose their job opportunities being shared with northern people.

You could understand this i guess. You got a country for muslims in 1947 but did that mean end of problems? You have issues to resolve even today. Shias fighting Sunnis, muhajirs, Baloch rebellion etc.

India does not have a national language, despite strong lobby from hindi heartland to make hindi the national language but as soon as this argument is floated the south Indian hindus destroy the arguement as they have their own language they are proud of.

I hope you get the drift. The whole hindutva thing is a BJP propaganda to polarize Indians on basis of religion only when they're already divided in terms of culture and language. It can never happen. This is a temporary phase. Congress will revive and reclaim power in 2024 most probably and things will be back to normal and corruption will again become our favorite issue to discuss.


I am somewhat glad that though Modi is an idiot, he is fortunately a dishonest idiot.

Modi gives the impression that he wants war with Pakistan but what he really wants is just to stay in power. He had to do the fake show off strikes to project himself as a strong leader in India.

 

[Junaid_ahmed]

Is there no solution to control these fanatics? Are the law enforcing agencies helpless?

You can't blame law enforcement institutions when these peoples are sitting among state policymakers. One more thing I should add that what makes a common man to select an extremists or facist . May be there is a feel of insecurity inside them regarding land/religion.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

they are fighting for ashokas india - akhand bharat.

They don't have a hope in hell if that's the case, as has been described by their own writers, India has a fetishistic obsession with the west, this is reflected in their own films where their language is increasingly littered with English. The Hindutva movement is a backlash, but sensible Indians know that there is no future in looking backwards, as our own Indian member troodon rightly said, Indians have given nothing to the world in the last 500 years. Every advance made since then has been led by the British, even the abolition of bride burning.