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What is your view of Pakistan increasing its defence budget?

srh

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Just heard that Pakistan has increased its defence budget. What is your view about it?

On one hand I feel this step is really cruel since Pakistan's economy is in such a bad shape and people are really suffering and yet government is spending more money on defence; reminds me of tactics in old USSR.

On other hand we have a mad man in India in power who is trying to destroy peace so anything to counter him is good for Pakistan.
 
Just heard that Pakistan has increased its defence budget. What is your view about it?

On one hand I feel this step is really cruel since Pakistan's economy is in such a bad shape and people are really suffering and yet government is spending more money on defence; reminds me of tactics in old USSR.

On other hand we have a mad man in India in power who is trying to destroy peace so anything to counter him is good for Pakistan.

what will pak defense spend it on ? overpriced american fighters jets / tanks. overspend on the russian su-30.

Useless. Should have invested in getting the roads fully built for gwadar port, building more schools and hospitals, getting rid of the debt, building more power stations and dams.Invest in in pakistan business. Re-generate karachi, invest in balochistan / KPK, PIA, all transport, Broadband-as its really slow, moremoney on poverty and agriculture.
 
ISLAMABAD: The government on Friday proposed Rs1.29 trillion defence allocation for next fiscal year representing an 11.8 per cent increase over the original allocation for the outgoing year.

Federal Minister for Industries Hammad Azhar, while presenting the budget in the National Assembly, said “defence and internal security have been given adequate attention in the budget”.

The military had last year forgone a major hike because of the economic challenges then facing the country and settled for a raise of 4.74 per cent, but by the end of the year it had overshot the allocation by 6.33 per cent.

The original allocation for last year was Rs1.15 trillion, but according to revised figures presented before the lower house of parliament, about Rs1.23 trillion had been spent. It has now virtually become a norm for actual defence spending incurred in a year to be higher than the original allocation.

The allocation represents 11.8pc increase over outgoing year’s budget

The amount earmarked for defence sector makes 17.68 per cent of the total expenditure planned for the next year, which is estimated to be Rs7,294.9 billion. Last year this share was 14 per cent.

The share of the defence services in the budget explains how much money is going to armed forces in real terms.

Meanwhile, when measured against the GDP, its share is 2.82 per cent. The size of the GDP is estimated to be about Rs45,643 billion. The original allocation for the outgoing year was 2.62 per cent of the GDP.

Calculating defence budget as percentage of the GDP indicates its burden on the national economy. Pakistan’s defence spending as a percentage of the GDP is the highest in the region with Chinese budget as share of GDP being 1.9 per cent, India 2.4 per cent, and Iran 2.3 per cent.

Comparison of the proposed defence expenditure with the overall expenditure and as share of the GDP to a great extent resemble that of the 2018-19 budget presented by the previous PML-N government, when it was 18.5 per cent of the total pie and 2.87 per cent of the GDP.

The figures given for defence spending do not give a full picture of the amount actually being spent on defence. One major exclusion is the apportionment of pensions for the retired troops. The government would be paying Rs369 billion under this head next year – a 12.8 per cent increase over the previous year. Moreover, major acquisitions by the armed forces are not reflected in the budget and so is the case with the nuclear programme.

A closer analysis of the proposed figures reveals that the biggest hike in expenses is coming under the head of civil works, which accounts for the funds marked for maintenance of existing infrastructure and construction of new buildings. The civil works component is set to grow by 26.14 per cent to reach Rs155.5 billion.

Two major civil works projects currently being undertaken by the military are fencing of borders with Afghanistan and Iran and construction of border posts.

Operating expenses, which cover transport, POL, ration, medical treatment, and training, would get Rs 301 billion – a 13.77 per cent raise, while another Rs357.7 billion would go for physical assets – the head that accounts for local purchase of arms and ammunition and other procurements – a 13.43 per cent increase.

The employees’ related expenses would get the lowest increment of 5.6 per cent. This head, however, consumes most of the defence budget. An amount of Rs475 billion has been reserved for this purpose. A leaked joint services headquarters memo had shown that armed forces were seeking a 20 per cent increase in salary. However, that has not happened,

Looking at the distribution of the money among various services shows that the share of the Army has marginally increased to reach 47.55 per cent as compared to PAF’s 21.25 per cent, Navy’s 10.85 per cent and inter-services establishment’s 20.33 per cent.

Last year the army’s portion was 45.4 per cent, PAF 22 per cent, Navy 11.3 per cent, and inter-services establishment 21 per cent.

The Army would this year be getting Rs613 billion, PAF Rs274 billion, Navy Rs 140 billion, and inter-services establishment Rs262 billion.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1563187/govt-proposes-rs129tr-for-defence-spending
 
No one has conquered us until now and no one is interested either. After shooting two Indian planes and taking revenge of the 90,000 PoWs that India took in 1971, I highly doubt if India would dare to challenge us again.

Nevertheless, we are still going to increase our defense budget which does not include the pension for military officers because they say that once they retire they become civilians.

Someone said why do we need civilian leaders when everything is control by the military. The answer is to beg for them around the world.
 
Just heard that Pakistan has increased its defence budget. What is your view about it?

On one hand I feel this step is really cruel since Pakistan's economy is in such a bad shape and people are really suffering and yet government is spending more money on defence; reminds me of tactics in old USSR.

On other hand we have a mad man in India in power who is trying to destroy peace so anything to counter him is good for Pakistan.

The mad man, elected twice with overwhelming majority, has actually reduced India's defence spend as percentage of GDP since coming to power in 2014.

Your army had a similar share in the budget even when India had Manmohan led UPA in power.
 
i understand the the defense budget generally never goes above its received - however in this position where we are now- believe that this time it should be better spend to improve our gpd dramatically .

as with covoid- china will be squeezing india for obvious reason and now even nepal are increasing their chest size
 
if anyone does want the defense to have this, could they please add what tanks/ jets/ missiles we need to purchase
 
If you look at history with non-bias, you would see all Indo-Pak wars were started by Pakistan. Yes, we have differences with India but they have been way over-magnified so as to justify big military spending.

India is not interested in a war and nor is Pakistan. Actually, there is no justification for an increase in military spending. Money should be diverted to education and health.
 
If you look at history with non-bias, you would see all Indo-Pak wars were started by Pakistan. Yes, we have differences with India but they have been way over-magnified so as to justify big military spending.

India is not interested in a war and nor is Pakistan. Actually, there is no justification for an increase in military spending. Money should be diverted to education and health.

Yes modi is selling mithai in Kashmir

As for starting wars, if you look at the big picture, pakistan only retaliates and never starts them, i.e. kargil -> retaliation for Siachen
 
Yes modi is selling mithai in Kashmir

As for starting wars, if you look at the big picture, pakistan only retaliates and never starts them, i.e. kargil -> retaliation for Siachen

It is all for show and domestic consumption.

Please elaborate on your second point.
 
It is all for show and domestic consumption.

Please elaborate on your second point.

yes thats why i said hes selling mithai, also must be putting mithai in the guns when firing across border, abhinanda must have had mithai instead of missiles thats why he went down.

What do you what to know about my second point, india attacked pakistan and took siachen during the soviet attack on afgan, Kashmir was just an operation to get it back, despite the gap it was retaliation.
 
The mad man, elected twice with overwhelming majority, has actually reduced India's defence spend as percentage of GDP since coming to power in 2014.

Your army had a similar share in the budget even when India had Manmohan led UPA in power.

India spends $60bn compared to PK's $10bn. Only an a traitor would say PK budget is excessive
 
Every country needs a strong military, Pakistan's defense budget is significantly smaller than most others.
 
It is better to spend that money on defence istead of letting it go to politicians pockets.

As far as public goes, Allah kay saharay(depends on God's help as always). However, the rates for bribery will inflate because of inflation.

Education or no education, infrastructure or no infrastructure, no one can educate our Pakistani nation in any case.

Mustafa Kamal did a good job in creating inrastructure in Karachi by building bus stops and all, but in the name of saving Islam and batttling for every muslim cause, an average Pakistani destroys the infrastructure by burning them. End output: waste of money

Pakistan has been functioning Allah kay saray, it will keep going like this. Even Musharaf with so much power could not fix it then what a cricketer turned politician can do so.

By the end of the term, Imran Khan will come up with a different set of new slogans. Right now"Madina ki Riasat" and "Tabdeeli aye nyee hai balkay aa gye hai". Similarly, "roti, kapara, makaan" of PPP.

Why do you think there is a huge line of Pakistanis infront of a foreign embassy?
 
No one has conquered us until now and no one is interested either. After shooting two Indian planes and taking revenge of the 90,000 PoWs that India took in 1971, I highly doubt if India would dare to challenge us again.

Nevertheless, we are still going to increase our defense budget which does not include the pension for military officers because they say that once they retire they become civilians.

Someone said why do we need civilian leaders when everything is control by the military. The answer is to beg for them around the world.

Once Kashmir has been freed, we can go back to saving our people from Corona Virus InshaAllah
 
Good decision, big ticket purchases are the need of the hour. Now is not the time to be frugal- a war with India is on the horizon.. it's really of matter of months. Those demanding a cut in the defence budget at this critical juncture, have been living under a rock and are lacking foresight. Sit down and keep quiet.
 
Those crying hoarse about the budget why don't they pick up a weapon and go volunteer at the LoC for free.
 
India spends $60bn compared to PK's $10bn. Only an a traitor would say PK budget is excessive

I am not a traitor at all. I am an Indian. Lmao.

I made two FACTUAL claims - 1) Modi has brought India's defence spend relative to GDP down over his 6 year tenure, and 2) that pakistan's defence spend has remained constant (as % of GDP) for years.

You won't hear me say pakistan's defence spend is excessive. I'd like it to be double the current level ideally.
 
MULTAN: Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi said on Saturday that despite knowing the nefarious designs of India, no increase was made in Pakistan’s defence expenditures in the budget so that the masses should not be overburdened.

In a video statement issued in connection with the federal budget 2020-21, the foreign minister said the revenue target had been brought down to Rs800 billion because of disruption of the economy by coronavirus outbreak.

“Despite all odds, the budget is balanced, reasonable, positive and optimistic. Although we are aware of the designs of India, but did not increase the [allocation for] defence expenditures. Keeping in view the [country’s] financial condition, Pak Army cooperated a lot with us. We focused more on the communities and areas which are living below the poverty line. For this purpose, we have increased the amount allocated for Ehsaas Programme from Rs178bn to Rs208bn. Although, the health and education sectors are related to provinces, we also allocated a huge amount for these both sectors as well,” he said.

Regarding the opposition’s protest during the budget speech, he said its attitude was “non-serious”.

“The GDP deficit is Rs3,000bn. The budget has been presented in unusual circumstances as the coronavirus has jolted the world economy. There is a revenue deficit of Rs800bn. Our exports were increasing from July to March but they rapidly declined from March to June because of coronavirus,” he said.

Mr Qureshi regretted that because of the huge loans taken by the previous governments, the Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf government had to spend a major chunk of the budget on debt servicing.

Giving credit to Prime Minister Imran Khan for championing the cause of underdeveloped countries by seeking debt relief, he said: “It is a matter of pleasure for me that G-20 and Paris Club granted some relaxations to us, while we are still want more concessions so that we could use the resources to provide employment and eradicate poverty.”

He said efforts were on to reform the Federal Board of Revenue, adding that automation of the tax system would result in improvement in tax collection, while it would also help reduce corruption as well.

He said a huge amount had also been allocated for the betterment of the agriculture sector and improving water resources.

“Rs10bn have been allocated for locust control, besides Rs50bn additional amount for the agriculture sector,” he said.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1563308/defence-budget-not-increased-to-provide-relief-to-masses-qureshi
 
Can't believe people are supporting the increased budget on defence as opposed to spending this money on healthcare and education. What a wonder Madina ki Riyasat this is. In the end, it is the military that controls everything and no the sitting government and this is a result of that.
 
India spends $60bn compared to PK's $10bn. Only an a traitor would say PK budget is excessive

What sort of a statement is that? I expected a bit more from you. You can't compare absolute values. Comparison should be the spend as a % of something. For example, Pakistan's defense budget is almost 5% of its GDP whereas for India it is around 3%
 
What sort of a statement is that? I expected a bit more from you. You can't compare absolute values. Comparison should be the spend as a % of something. For example, Pakistan's defense budget is almost 5% of its GDP whereas for India it is around 3%

I am surprised that you are so naive-Battles are not fought with what % of country's GDP spent on defense, we are not doing a handicapped horse race, it's quite literally a battle for survival and your army needs as many weapons to deter the enemy.
 
I am not a traitor at all. I am an Indian. Lmao.

I made two FACTUAL claims - 1) Modi has brought India's defence spend relative to GDP down over his 6 year tenure, and 2) that pakistan's defence spend has remained constant (as % of GDP) for years.

You won't hear me say pakistan's defence spend is excessive. I'd like it to be double the current level ideally.

I was talking about you, it's the traitors within our midst. As far as % of GDP is concerned, it's irrelevant because when you go into battle it's absolutes that count ie what weapons you have, and we are up against a fascist who is looking to flex his muscle and we need to be ready.
 
No one has conquered us until now and no one is interested either. After shooting two Indian planes and taking revenge of the 90,000 PoWs that India took in 1971, I highly doubt if India would dare to challenge us again.

Doesn't your second sentence defeat your reasoning in the first? You could argue the only reason India won't dare to challenge because Pakistan's military is competent, and that must be down in some part to the investment in hardware.

I have previously argued against Pakistan's military spending on similar lines, i.e. India has no interest in conquering Pakistan, but I do recognise that there needs to be capability to defend the borders from aggression which India quite often indulges in to win support from their voters. But Pakistan should be developing it's own weapons rather than relying on buying from the US or China, that would be an acceptable justification of spending.
 
I am surprised that you are so naive-Battles are not fought with what % of country's GDP spent on defense, we are not doing a handicapped horse race, it's quite literally a battle for survival and your army needs as many weapons to deter the enemy.

So you're suggesting we should match India's spend?

Brilliant.
 
So you're suggesting we should match India's spend?

Brilliant.


No, i am sugesting that we have forces equipped so that they can actually defend. At the moment we can, so can read into that its about right, although our Air Force needs to be beefed up. You cannot do with % of GDP, you need weapons and men. By your logic a poor country should have no army as it cant afford it.
 
Can't believe people are supporting the increased budget on defence as opposed to spending this money on healthcare and education. What a wonder Madina ki Riyasat this is. In the end, it is the military that controls everything and no the sitting government and this is a result of that.


Because in 2004, Lebanese also couldn't believe there eyes when Israel flatten them, and they questioned why has the gov. spend all the budget on infransture and not on the army to defend it.

As for Medina ki Riyasat, whatever that means, it was also the army that got all money and resources first, education, infranstruchure and everything else came later.




What sort of a statement is that? I expected a bit more from you. You can't compare absolute values. Comparison should be the spend as a % of something. For example, Pakistan's defense budget is almost 5% of its GDP whereas for India it is around 3%

% are useless when in war and in war only comparable values matter

Because when you are fighting a battle, you need to not only match the enemy but also succeed him, therefore anyone talking about % in defence spending is a complete buffon and has no understanding of the situation.
 
investment made today will dictate where pakistan is headed in the next 10 to 15 years, this link has the total budget in detail

http://www.finance.gov.pk/budget/Annual_budget_Statement_English_202021.pdf

Page 9 summary, Pakistan expenditure (rounding to make my lift easier)

Defense: PKR 1300 billion
Education : PKR 90 billion

Page 10 details:
Defense, procurement of phsyical assets, 360 billion, up from 320 billion in the previous year

Page 12 details:
Education, primary and secondary education combined expenditure, Rs 10 billion.

So in the previous year Pakistan has found resources to procure extra military assets worth roughly 4 years spending on primary and secondary education in Pakistan despite a supposed economic slow down.

60 to 70 million Pakistanis are under 15 years old. Assuming 20% are below 5 years old, conservatively 40 to 50 million Pakistanis are of primary school age. Pakistan is spending (if my maths is not incorrect) Pkr 200 per capita on their education.

That is $1.50 per student per year.

I will not leave any opinions in this post, i don't think i need to, the numbers say everything.
 
investment made today will dictate where pakistan is headed in the next 10 to 15 years, this link has the total budget in detail

http://www.finance.gov.pk/budget/Annual_budget_Statement_English_202021.pdf

Page 9 summary, Pakistan expenditure (rounding to make my lift easier)

Defense: PKR 1300 billion
Education : PKR 90 billion

Page 10 details:
Defense, procurement of phsyical assets, 360 billion, up from 320 billion in the previous year

Page 12 details:
Education, primary and secondary education combined expenditure, Rs 10 billion.

So in the previous year Pakistan has found resources to procure extra military assets worth roughly 4 years spending on primary and secondary education in Pakistan despite a supposed economic slow down.

60 to 70 million Pakistanis are under 15 years old. Assuming 20% are below 5 years old, conservatively 40 to 50 million Pakistanis are of primary school age. Pakistan is spending (if my maths is not incorrect) Pkr 200 per capita on their education.

That is $1.50 per student per year.

I will not leave any opinions in this post, i don't think i need to, the numbers say everything.

That's incorrect. Education is a provincial subject and the provincial budgets have not been announced yet.
 
Doesn't your second sentence defeat your reasoning in the first? You could argue the only reason India won't dare to challenge because Pakistan's military is competent, and that must be down in some part to the investment in hardware.

I have previously argued against Pakistan's military spending on similar lines, i.e. India has no interest in conquering Pakistan, but I do recognise that there needs to be capability to defend the borders from aggression which India quite often indulges in to win support from their voters. But Pakistan should be developing it's own weapons rather than relying on buying from the US or China, that would be an acceptable justification of spending.

It was a sarcastic comment. You should have picked it up when I compared our 90,000 PoWs in 1971 with Abhinandan.

Pakistan is a paper tiger that has managed to overestimate its military capability because of intense propaganda.

We cannot compete with India in a full-scale war unless our Chinese masters come to our aid. PAF is our strong point but India is far superior when it comes to military and navy, and that is where we have lost every battle with India.

Let’s take a look at Pakistan’s military achievements since our inception:

- they have not been able to grab an inch of J&K in 72 years. The AJK that they thump their chests on was won for them by the tribals, the same tribals that they have treated like animals since.

- they tried to invade Kashmir in 1965 before India responded by attacking Lahore. Since we did not have the numbers to fight on two fronts, we left Kashmir with our tail tucked between our legs and devoted all our resources to defend Lahore.

This misadventure is now celebrated as “Defense Day” on 6th September.

- In 1971, after committing the worse genocide in subcontinent history, we were humiliated and embarrassed by India. We surrendered East Pakistan and India took 90,000 PoWs.

Today, we celebrate one Abhinandan and are still making corny tea jokes, but India took 90,000+ Pakistani Abhinandans in 1971 and served them 90,000+ cups of tea.

Today, we have showcased Abhinandan’s statue and belongings in a museum, but India would actually have to build a new museum to showcase the statues and belongings of the 90,000+ Pakistani PoWs.

- in 1999, we once again overestimated our capabilities and were humiliated in Kargil.

2019 was one of the rare stand-offs where Pakistan bettered India, but that only happened because the military and the navy were not involved. PAF is better than IAF, but our military and naval capabilities are inferior to India. They are not only ahead in terms of technology but also in terms of manpower.

If India wages a full-scale war over Pakistan, they will suffer but we will suffer more as history shows.

That is the reality of Pakistani military capabilities once you overcome the intense propaganda.

The military of Pakistan have been living like kings and enjoying a lavish lifestyle since its inception because of the narrative that they are the guardian angels of Pakistan and if we don’t spend a big chunk of our GDP on defense, we will cease to exist.

As I said, the only that would happen if we reduce our defense budget is that the military will start to live within their means and their business empire worth billions will start to crumble.
 
Education and healthcare meaning jack**** if you don't have enough conventional strength to defend yourself (war is imminent). Now is not the time to make cuts to the defence budget!!!
 
India has reaped massive rewards and returns from the investments they made in education, science, technology in the 90's and the financial returns they are enjoying now 20-30 years is in front of us. Pakistan wasted the same years thanks to the loot maar of the PPP, PML N from 1988 to 1999 and then again from 2008 to 2018. 21 years totally gone to waste while our neighbors profited massively in the same time period.

The number 1 priority in our budget is Foreign Debt/Interest Serving, after that you have the Defence Budget, what is left after that?
 
I am surprised that you are so naive-Battles are not fought with what % of country's GDP spent on defense, we are not doing a handicapped horse race, it's quite literally a battle for survival and your army needs as many weapons to deter the enemy.

Aren’t you a British Citizen? So would you be ok if tomorrow Britain increases its defensive budget and cut down on social security/ welfare and other spending?

I am sure you will be going full postal on Priti Patel, Boris Johnson etc had they proposed something similar.

When it comes to Pakistan you probably are looking at it from a Ind vs Pak angle. Flash news: this isn’t a cricket match where there is just some online trolling either ways after the result.
 
It was a sarcastic comment. You should have picked it up when I compared our 90,000 PoWs in 1971 with Abhinandan.

Pakistan is a paper tiger that has managed to overestimate its military capability because of intense propaganda.

We cannot compete with India in a full-scale war unless our Chinese masters come to our aid. PAF is our strong point but India is far superior when it comes to military and navy, and that is where we have lost every battle with India.

Let’s take a look at Pakistan’s military achievements since our inception:

- they have not been able to grab an inch of J&K in 72 years. The AJK that they thump their chests on was won for them by the tribals, the same tribals that they have treated like animals since.

- they tried to invade Kashmir in 1965 before India responded by attacking Lahore. Since we did not have the numbers to fight on two fronts, we left Kashmir with our tail tucked between our legs and devoted all our resources to defend Lahore.

This misadventure is now celebrated as “Defense Day” on 6th September.

- In 1971, after committing the worse genocide in subcontinent history, we were humiliated and embarrassed by India. We surrendered East Pakistan and India took 90,000 PoWs.

Today, we celebrate one Abhinandan and are still making corny tea jokes, but India took 90,000+ Pakistani Abhinandans in 1971 and served them 90,000+ cups of tea.

Today, we have showcased Abhinandan’s statue and belongings in a museum, but India would actually have to build a new museum to showcase the statues and belongings of the 90,000+ Pakistani PoWs.

- in 1999, we once again overestimated our capabilities and were humiliated in Kargil.

2019 was one of the rare stand-offs where Pakistan bettered India, but that only happened because the military and the navy were not involved. PAF is better than IAF, but our military and naval capabilities are inferior to India. They are not only ahead in terms of technology but also in terms of manpower.

If India wages a full-scale war over Pakistan, they will suffer but we will suffer more as history shows.

That is the reality of Pakistani military capabilities once you overcome the intense propaganda.

The military of Pakistan have been living like kings and enjoying a lavish lifestyle since its inception because of the narrative that they are the guardian angels of Pakistan and if we don’t spend a big chunk of our GDP on defense, we will cease to exist.

As I said, the only that would happen if we reduce our defense budget is that the military will start to live within their means and their business empire worth billions will start to crumble.

The 90,000 prisoners in 1971 has been milked for decades by Indians, and fair play to them, they might as well as they played their hand well at the time. But Pakistan's defence budget has never really been targeted to fighting wars in Bangladesh. They got stranded on the other side of India, and India took advantage.

Today's requirements for Pakistan should simply be on defending their borders, and any budget will be with that in mind. Writing 1000 word posts about 1971 is not really relevant to be honest, but on topic, I am quite prepared to agree with you that Pakistan needs to keep military spending within their means.
 
This article should help clear up some of the misconceptions about the education budget.

----------------

Govt Increases Budget for Education Affairs and Services

The government has earmarked Rs. 83.363 billion for Education Affairs and Services in the federal budget for 2020–21 against the revised allocation of Rs. 81.253 billion for the current fiscal year, showing a slight increase of around 2.5 percent.

Pakistan’s public expenditure on education as a percentage to GDP is estimated at 2.3 percent in the fiscal year 2019-20, which is the lowest in the region.

The bulk of expenditure of Rs. 70.741 billion has been allocated for Tertiary Education Affairs and Services in budget 2020-21, which is 84.9 percent of the total allocation under this head.

The government has earmarked Rs. 2.931 billion for pre-Primary & Primary Education Affairs for 2020-2 against Rs. 2.83 billion for 2019-20, Rs. 7.344 billion earmarked for Secondary Education Affairs & Services for 2020-21 against Rs. 6.718 billion for 2019-20, Rs. 1.237 billion for administration against Rs. 1.407 billion for 2019-20 which was later revised to Rs. 727 million.

After the 18th Constitutional amendment, education as a subject has been devolved to provinces, and the federal government mainly finances higher education.

The government has increased the budgetary allocation for the higher education sector from Rs. 59 billion in 2019-20 to Rs. 64 billion for the next fiscal year.

According to the budget documents Rs. 29.470 billion has been earmarked for Higher Education Commission (HEC) under the Public Sector Development Programm (PSDP) for 2020-21 against Rs. 29.047 billion for 2019-20.

During the fiscal year 2019-20, the government has allocated Rs. 29.047 billion to HEC for the implementation of 138 development projects (128 ongoing & 10 new projects) of public sector universities/ higher education institutions.

During July-March, the fiscal year 2020 an amount of Rs. 22.738 billion (around 80 percent of the total allocation) has been authorized to HEC for meeting expenditure against ongoing project activities.

https://propakistani.pk/2020/06/12/govt-increases-budget-for-education-affairs-and-services/
 
Pakistan's defence budget has never really been targeted to fighting wars in Bangladesh. They got stranded on the other side of India, and India took advantage.

.

I don’t know how “British history” books document the events but it wasn’t called Bangladesh, it was called “East Pakistan”.

They got stranded :)) listen to yourself. India did not attack East Pakistan on its own, there was a revolution there and guess who was the root cause of that revolt. I am sure whatever was happening there at that time didn’t come out of the personal pocket from the West Pakistan (current day Pakistan) army did it?
 
Aren’t you a British Citizen? So would you be ok if tomorrow Britain increases its defensive budget and cut down on social security/ welfare and other spending?

I am sure you will be going full postal on Priti Patel, Boris Johnson etc had they proposed something similar.

When it comes to Pakistan you probably are looking at it from a Ind vs Pak angle. Flash news: this isn’t a cricket match where there is just some online trolling either ways after the result.

Yes off course if its needed. You don't compromise on defense, otherwise you have no education and welfare to talk about. You take chances with a mad fanitical fascist on your door step
 
I don’t know how “British history” books document the events but it wasn’t called Bangladesh, it was called “East Pakistan”.

They got stranded :)) listen to yourself. India did not attack East Pakistan on its own, there was a revolution there and guess who was the root cause of that revolt. I am sure whatever was happening there at that time didn’t come out of the personal pocket from the West Pakistan (current day Pakistan) army did it?

Call it Bangladesh or East Pakistan if you prefer, the central point remains the same. The 1971 war doesn't warrant 1000 word posts in this thread because Pakistan's defence budget will be geared to defending the border with India, not Bangladesh.
 
investment made today will dictate where pakistan is headed in the next 10 to 15 years, this link has the total budget in detail

http://www.finance.gov.pk/budget/Annual_budget_Statement_English_202021.pdf

Page 9 summary, Pakistan expenditure (rounding to make my lift easier)

Defense: PKR 1300 billion
Education : PKR 90 billion

Page 10 details:
Defense, procurement of phsyical assets, 360 billion, up from 320 billion in the previous year

Page 12 details:
Education, primary and secondary education combined expenditure, Rs 10 billion.

So in the previous year Pakistan has found resources to procure extra military assets worth roughly 4 years spending on primary and secondary education in Pakistan despite a supposed economic slow down.

60 to 70 million Pakistanis are under 15 years old. Assuming 20% are below 5 years old, conservatively 40 to 50 million Pakistanis are of primary school age. Pakistan is spending (if my maths is not incorrect) Pkr 200 per capita on their education.

That is $1.50 per student per year.

I will not leave any opinions in this post, i don't think i need to, the numbers say everything.

Some more numbers,

Currently, Pakistan has the world’s second-highest number of out-of-school children (OOSC) with an estimated 22.8 million children aged 5-16 not attending school, representing 44 per cent of the total population in this age group.

https://www.unicef.org/pakistan/edu...million children,population in this age group
 
so for the people who support the defense budget

what would you like Pakistan defense to purchase/invest, what toys do Pakistan need?
 
For those complaining of the defense budget increase, you should understand Pakistan spends more money on state run enterprises than the entire defense budget. Most of those state run enterprises lose money, with the biggest culprits being PIA, Pakistan Steel Mill, and Railways.

Any serious reform will need to being with privatizing these and not trying to score cheap political points on the defense budget, which has simply adjusted been for the increase in inflation.

And for those mentioning an increase in education spending, when you take into account the money that is spent on private schools as well as the government funding, Pakistan does not have a shortage of money being given to the education budget. It is an issue of misuse of the existing budget that is the problem. A solution can be to give poor children vouchers to go to private schools, rather than go to poorly run goverment schools that no amount money will fix.
 
so for the people who support the defense budget

what would you like Pakistan defense to purchase/invest, what toys do Pakistan need?

The increase in the budget is simply keeping up with inflation. There are far bigger problems in Pakistan than the defense budget.
 
investment made today will dictate where pakistan is headed in the next 10 to 15 years, this link has the total budget in detail

http://www.finance.gov.pk/budget/Annual_budget_Statement_English_202021.pdf

Page 9 summary, Pakistan expenditure (rounding to make my lift easier)

Defense: PKR 1300 billion
Education : PKR 90 billion


Page 10 details:
Defense, procurement of phsyical assets, 360 billion, up from 320 billion in the previous year

Page 12 details:
Education, primary and secondary education combined expenditure, Rs 10 billion.

So in the previous year Pakistan has found resources to procure extra military assets worth roughly 4 years spending on primary and secondary education in Pakistan despite a supposed economic slow down.

60 to 70 million Pakistanis are under 15 years old. Assuming 20% are below 5 years old, conservatively 40 to 50 million Pakistanis are of primary school age. Pakistan is spending (if my maths is not incorrect) Pkr 200 per capita on their education.

That is $1.50 per student per year.

I will not leave any opinions in this post, i don't think i need to, the numbers say everything.

Pakistan has been increasing education funding for years, and those figures do not take into account private school spending. When you take that into account Pakistan is spending almost the same as defense, yet the increase in spending has not resulted in any improvements. No amount of money will improve schools unless there is serious reform.

Take a look at the below article

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/...ion/pakistanseducationcrisistherealstory2.pdf

Or see this for a cliff note summary

https://medium.com/millennialpk/nad...-way-out-of-the-education-crises-abb4d2a6d533
 
Some more numbers,

Currently, Pakistan has the world’s second-highest number of out-of-school children (OOSC) with an estimated 22.8 million children aged 5-16 not attending school, representing 44 per cent of the total population in this age group.

https://www.unicef.org/pakistan/edu...million children,population in this age group

To put it in context of surrounding regions - just for primary school kids,

Out of school kids % for south Asian countries for primary schools

SL - 0.5%
India - 2.3%
Nepal - 3.7%
BD - 5%
Pakistan - 24.7%

https://tellmaps.com/uis/oosc/#!/profile/WORLD/PAK
 
A solution can be to give poor children vouchers to go to private schools, rather than go to poorly run goverment schools that no amount money will fix.

Why primary aged kids, who may be poor, are attending government schools in other south asian countries, but not in Pakistan?
 
Depends on where the money goes. If it goes into developing local military technology than good. Just look at Turkey, they heavily invested in their drones and now they are dominating battles in Libya and Syria with out having to involve its major assets
 
The increase in the budget is simply keeping up with inflation. There are far bigger problems in Pakistan than the defense budget.

thats fine, but i am keen on what would people like to spend it on, army /air force - what would you like
 
Why primary aged kids, who may be poor, are attending government schools in other south asian countries, but not in Pakistan?

They go because they cant afford private schools. If there parents had the money they certainly would send them to privates schools. And i have never researched those other countries, however from what i have read about Pakistan it is not a budget issue. Private schools and school run by NGO (like the citizens foundation) are providing cheaper schools with better results. Government schools are run by incompetent crooks. Which is why almost every Middle Class family sends there children to private schools. So there should not be an issue if the money that the goverment is spending on public schools, they instead give to the parents on a private school.


There was research done by Nadia Naviawala on this which you can check out

https://www.dawn.com/news/1335342

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/...ion/pakistanseducationcrisistherealstory2.pdf

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/...nt_pakistani_children_read_nadia_naviwala.pdf
 
Strange decision during a pandemic year and during a time when the Western border will inevitably start to cool now that a deal with the Taliban has been struck.
 
I have no preference. Whatever is the most cost effective way to have a credible defense.

i was looking at Pakistan fighter jets they do seem a bit outdated - then i was looking at indonesia as they have balanced thrs out very nicely.

I wouldn't mind if pak bought the su34/35 / some JAS 39 Gripen or even the f22 raptor - as india bought over 250 su30's from russia
 
All self-created to keep the military rich and allow the military elites to live like kings.
Yeah India sending a jets over the border is a figment of our imagination.
 
They go because they cant afford private schools. If there parents had the money they certainly would send them to privates schools. And i have never researched those other countries, however from what i have read about Pakistan it is not a budget issue. Private schools and school run by NGO (like the citizens foundation) are providing cheaper schools with better results. Government schools are run by incompetent crooks. Which is why almost every Middle Class family sends there children to private schools. So there should not be an issue if the money that the goverment is spending on public schools, they instead give to the parents on a private school.


There was research done by Nadia Naviawala on this which you can check out

https://www.dawn.com/news/1335342

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/...ion/pakistanseducationcrisistherealstory2.pdf

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/sites/...nt_pakistani_children_read_nadia_naviwala.pdf

Thanks, I will check on this later.

I was asking a different question. Sure, if anyone has money they will try to attend the best possible school and it may translate to attending private in south Asian countries and most other countries.

But how come such a large number of poor kids are out of school in Pakistan but not in other south asian countries. Difference is like 10 times and it can't be due to some minor factors. I would think that quality of education in other south asian countries may differ between government and private school as well.
 
[MENTION=148149]Gharib Aadmi[/MENTION] [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] yes, i appreciate the problem is a lot more complex than just money, but as a state or nation, it is difficult to assume where any long term economic reforms are to be reaped from if the entire responsibility of educating one of the largest young populations in the world is outsourced.

That's incorrect. Education is a provincial subject and the provincial budgets have not been announced yet.

apologies and thanks for correcting me, i have gone through the figures for punjab for last year, and there is an extra Rs 30 billion allocated to primary and seconday education.

so assuming half of the federal budget goes to punjab that gives punjab's primary and secondary education a total budget of Rs. 35 billion. assuming theres 35 million children of school age in punjab (to make maths easy for me), thats Rs. 1000 per student per year, so roughly about $6.

i have used the following resource, https://finance.punjab.gov.pk/system/files/ABs19202.pdf , page 29, entries 91 and 92.
 
Disagree. Don't believe in conspiracies. Our enemies are all genuine.

it is not a matter of one or the other, Pakistan's enemies are genuine, but there is no lack of people within the country willing to leverage that for personal gains.

the actual balancing act is impossibly difficult, but that could be a whole separate topic.
 
i was looking at Pakistan fighter jets they do seem a bit outdated - then i was looking at indonesia as they have balanced thrs out very nicely.

I wouldn't mind if pak bought the su34/35 / some JAS 39 Gripen or even the f22 raptor - as india bought over 250 su30's from russia

keep baiting .... no ones gonna take your bait ..... :)
 
[MENTION=148149]Gharib Aadmi[/MENTION] [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] yes, i appreciate the problem is a lot more complex than just money, but as a state or nation, it is difficult to assume where any long term economic reforms are to be reaped from if the entire responsibility of educating one of the largest young populations in the world is outsourced.



apologies and thanks for correcting me, i have gone through the figures for punjab for last year, and there is an extra Rs 30 billion allocated to primary and seconday education.

so assuming half of the federal budget goes to punjab that gives punjab's primary and secondary education a total budget of Rs. 35 billion. assuming theres 35 million children of school age in punjab (to make maths easy for me), thats Rs. 1000 per student per year, so roughly about $6.

i have used the following resource, https://finance.punjab.gov.pk/system/files/ABs19202.pdf , page 29, entries 91 and 92.

Punjab has allocated 320b for school education for the FY21
 
[MENTION=148149]Gharib Aadmi[/MENTION] [MENTION=97523]Buffet[/MENTION] yes, i appreciate the problem is a lot more complex than just money, but as a state or nation, it is difficult to assume where any long term economic reforms are to be reaped from if the entire responsibility of educating one of the largest young populations in the world is outsourced.



apologies and thanks for correcting me, i have gone through the figures for punjab for last year, and there is an extra Rs 30 billion allocated to primary and seconday education.

so assuming half of the federal budget goes to punjab that gives punjab's primary and secondary education a total budget of Rs. 35 billion. assuming theres 35 million children of school age in punjab (to make maths easy for me), thats Rs. 1000 per student per year, so roughly about $6.

i have used the following resource, https://finance.punjab.gov.pk/system/files/ABs19202.pdf , page 29, entries 91 and 92.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1488318 I think this has what you're looking for.
 
keep baiting .... no ones gonna take your bait ..... :)

im not messing around - yesterday at night spent few hrs reading into what us / india/russia/china/america had.

Thats the reason why i posted the 4th generation fighters. hence the reason i even named the swedish JAS 39 Gripen- one of the best 4th gen fighter and i dont believe any country bought it off Sweden

i cant change the fact that the defense have this budget - so they will have to spend it - hopefully on decent stuff.

I will say that if it was up to me - ill spend it on what i stated above in my first post.

But honestly if your into pakistan defense, with the money allocated- what would you like them to get / invest??? - no bait
 
o yeh by the way my mums eldest 2 bros were in the air force based in karachi -very high up - both are now late 70'syrs old - swear when i visited them - thr houses were mansions
 
im not messing around - yesterday at night spent few hrs reading into what us / india/russia/china/america had.

Thats the reason why i posted the 4th generation fighters. hence the reason i even named the swedish JAS 39 Gripen- one of the best 4th gen fighter and i dont believe any country bought it off Sweden

i cant change the fact that the defense have this budget - so they will have to spend it - hopefully on decent stuff.

I will say that if it was up to me - ill spend it on what i stated above in my first post.

But honestly if your into pakistan defense, with the money allocated- what would you like them to get / invest??? - no bait

Brazil bought the Gripen recently, I think first jet was delivered late last year with more to follow. Just buying a jet is not the correct way to go because then you are enslaved to the country which sold you the jet for spares and repairs like we are with the F-16.


We make do with whatever we have, F-16s already causes plenty of sleepless nights next door. The JF-17 Thunder is quite a competent jet and was at the forefront of the action last Feb. The latest variant Block 3 is actually said to be pound for pound upto the capabilities of F-16s. 2 of the Block 3s are being built right now and production/induction will ramp up in 2021. Also Pakistani pilots flying the JF-17 (older blocks) often lock-on and beat other Pakistani pilots flying the F-16 in mock exercises. Not saying that JF-17 is better, but it beating the F-16 isn't an impossible scenario.

Also Pakistan is slowly and steadily moving towards its own 5th Generation fighter called Project Azm. It was started in 2017 but do not expect anything major before 2028-2030.
 
Yeah India sending a jets over the border is a figment of our imagination.

We are responsible for our fractured relationship with India because we poke our nose where it doesn’t belong.
 
Thanks, I will check on this later.

I was asking a different question. Sure, if anyone has money they will try to attend the best possible school and it may translate to attending private in south Asian countries and most other countries.

But how come such a large number of poor kids are out of school in Pakistan but not in other south asian countries. Difference is like 10 times and it can't be due to some minor factors. I would think that quality of education in other south asian countries may differ between government and private school as well.

People in Pakistan from poor background, especially in rural areas, are not really seeing the value in public schools, as there children are not learning much. The schools have political appointees as teachers. There is still a problem of ghost schools. Or schools where teachers simply dont show up. So they make a rational choice and just drop out.

Other countries public schools while not as good as private schools might still be better than Pakistan's.
 
yes thats why i said hes selling mithai, also must be putting mithai in the guns when firing across border, abhinanda must have had mithai instead of missiles thats why he went down.

What do you what to know about my second point, india attacked pakistan and took siachen during the soviet attack on afgan, Kashmir was just an operation to get it back, despite the gap it was retaliation.

Siachen-like skirmishes between the two have been going on since Pakistan's inception. We are talknig about proper wars: 1965, 1971 and Kargil. Let's not even talk about Mumbai Attacks!
 
Health and education are provincial subjects :facepalm:

This is the federal budget, and allocation under health and education is only for Islamabad and some national programs or fed hospitals in other cities.

Wait for provincial budgets

That's what i am telling to the people around here. Lots of posters here need to read 18th amend :))
 
Such propaganda needs to be exposed, As edu is a provincial matter so federal budget has a lesser chunk for it. Meanwhile last year budget allocations for edu were:

Punjab: 383 Bn
Sindh: 239 Bn
KPK: 143 Bn
Bln: 60 Bn
HEC: 45 Bn
Federal: 77 Bn

Total: 947 Bn
 
It is what it is. Our rupee has devalued in the last 12 months, and I assume a lot of our military equipment is imported, so the statistic of defence spending increasing probably looks worse on paper. What Pakistan really needs to figure a way out to do is substantially increase our GDP and by extension overall budget in other sectors, which should hopefully reduce the percentage of GDP going to our defence forces but not the amount.
 
Omg omg would you believe it Punjab government has allocated 391b for education and 284b for health while it allocated ZERO RUPPEES FOR DEFENSE. WOULD YOU BELIEVE IT????

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rs391 billion on education budget including development Rs34 bn. School education Rs350 billion. Danish School Rs3 bn. Higher education Rs37 billion including Rs3 bn for development - 7 new universities to form in Punjab <br> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PunjabBudget2020?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PunjabBudget2020</a></p>— Ali khizar (@AliKhizar) <a href="https://twitter.com/AliKhizar/status/1272495137583771650?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rs284 billion for health budget including Rs33 billion development in Punjab (Rs13bn on COVID related health measures) <br>DG Khan, Sahiwal, Multan and other hospitals up-gradation in it <br>New state of the art new hospital project in Lahore to start <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PunjabBudget2020?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PunjabBudget2020</a></p>— Ali khizar (@AliKhizar) <a href="https://twitter.com/AliKhizar/status/1272494065133801475?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



Don't lose your mind I'm just trolling the woke liberal crowd who were slitting their wrists and doing kapray phaar ke rona dhona after the federal budget when comparing a federal subject (defense) with provincial subjects (health and education)
 
165b just for P3 projects????? What is the Punjab government doing, has it gone mad??? We need atleast some allocation in defense with enemy at the door???????? Spending zero ruppees on defense is absolute madness


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">165 Billion Rs Projects targeted under "Public Private Partnership" in <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PunjabBudget2020?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PunjabBudget2020</a><br><br>▪ Pindi Ring Road<br>▪ Gujrat Jalalpur Jattan Road<br>▪ Weaving City FSD<br>▪ Water Meters Proj<br>▪ Multan Vehari Road<br>▪ Leh Expressway<br>▪ Wazirabad - Sambrial - Sialkot Road<br>▪ Treatment Plants <a href="https://t.co/kGMZ52wCWl">pic.twitter.com/kGMZ52wCWl</a></p>— Azhar (@MashwaniAzhar) <a href="https://twitter.com/MashwaniAzhar/status/1272511859950837761?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Even 78b is kept for local governance like providing lids for gutters and what not but not a single ruppee kept for defense. Somebody send this incompetent Punjab government home


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">78.3 billion have been allocated for local governance and 1.3 billion for Labor welfare. Details of allocations for different programs are given below. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PunjabBudget2020?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PunjabBudget2020</a> <a href="https://t.co/Y0oUA09Iu2">pic.twitter.com/Y0oUA09Iu2</a></p>— Musarrat Cheema (@MusarratCheema) <a href="https://twitter.com/MusarratCheema/status/1272505925568471040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 15, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
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