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What makes someone Palestinian? As defined by them...

shaykh

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On discussions on this topic it’s important to understand the parameters that each side use.

So whilst Jews make a ‘right of blood’ claim to Israel and view it as a home for the Jewish people. The ‘Palestinians’ in general don’t use right of blood.

One main focus is on land. The idea that land creates a nation. This is why the descendent of someone Moroccan would make the argument that he is Palestinian providing he owned land. Even if he moved there in 1946.
There is a lot of ethnic diversity amongst ‘Palestinians’ and the point is the nationalism isn’t ethnic based.

Palestinian nationalism for the most part in it’s initial stages was all about Zionists trying to dispossess them of their land. Them meaning the Arabs. If you were at risk of being dispossessed by Zionists this is what made you Palestinian.

‘Keep your blessed land. Reinforce its buildings so that they do not fall and its trees so that they do not die, lest your land and the land of your brothers be given to foreigners. The soil is the homeland, and a people that has no soil also has no homeland. Do not sell the land you inherited; it is your pride and the foundation of your glory. Do not cast away that which was entrusted into your hands so that you can improve it during your life and pass it on to its owners at your death. It is their [the heirs’] right and do not deny it to them, because that is a betrayal [khiyana] for which there is no absolution.’ (Filastin 1921)

Foreigners were Jews. Arab immigration was not considered foreign.

What is also crucial is religion. The religious element can be viewed in terms of sovereignty. The belief in the idea that the Zionists wanted control over the Arab people.

This is why ‘land sales’ were the crux of Palestinian nationalism.

The religious leaders in 1935 on essentially what defined someone as a traitor.

‘After study and discussion of the entire matter and support for what was said in these venerable fatawa, we have reached agreement that the seller and speculator and agent in [the sale of] the land of Palestine to Jews and he who abets them

First: acts for and causes the removal of the Muslims from their lands.

Second: prevents the mention of Allah’s name in mosques and works to destroy them.*

Third: accepts the Jews as rulers, since he abets their victory over the Muslims.

Fourth: offends Allah and his messenger and the faithful.

Fifth: betrays [kha’in] Allah and his messenger and believers.
From a study of the irrefutable proofs of rulings in cases such as these that are in the verses of Allah’s book, as the supreme one said: “O believers, do not betray Allah and the prophet. . . .”

And from all the above-said, which includes the reasons, the results, the utterances, and the fatwa, it transpires that one who sells land to Jews in Palestine, whether he did so directly or through an intermediary, as well as the speculator or agent in this sale and those who knowingly facilitate and help them in any way, one may not pray for them [at their deaths] or bury them in Muslim graves and one should abandon them and ban them and despise them and not become friendly with them or get close to them, even if they are parents or children or brothers or spouses.


This is why for instance you will never hear about the Ottoman occupation. But they will label the British mandate and Israel as occupation, because the view of being ruled by non-Muslims is unacceptable. In the same vein Palestinian history to them is essentially Muslim history on that land even though Palestine as an independent entity has never existed. It’s religious reverence of Jerusalem and the issue of Islamic sovereignty. It's why an ardent Palestinian nationalist sees no contradiction between believing in Palestinian self determination and believing that they should be ruled by a Caliphate or annexed by another Arab state.

The Christian clergy issued something very similar to the above also forbidding land sales to the Jews. So the Christians accepted Islamic sovereignty. So they made the cut to be Palestinian.

So in short the Palestinian position:
To be Palestinian you had to fit two criteria.
1 - own land in the area of the British mandate
2 - not be Jewish

That’s how Palestinians were initially defined. Of course now descendents of those who met this criteria are also considered Palestinian in the absence of land ownership due to the belief that their land has been ‘stolen.’

It’s why Hamas can say things like this openly:

‘Who are the Palestinians? We have many families called al-Masri, whose roots are Egyptian! They may be from Alexandria, from Cairo, from Dumietta, from the north, from Aswan, from Upper Egypt. We are Egyptians; we are Arabs. We are Muslims. We are part of you. Egyptians! Personally, half my family is Egyptian – and the other half are Saudis’

The Canaanite narrative that Abbas and Arafat have used at times is far too easy to debunk.

So this is why when asked if they are different to Jordanians, Lebanese and Syrians they will likely say no. The area is considered the Levant. And even during the initial stages of nationalism there was focus on becoming part of a united Arab country under the Hashemite King Faysal. They would have been part of Southern Syria.

It's important to note that Sykes Picot created new nationalities that didn't exist under the Ottoman state.

So whilst the Canaanite narrative is easy to debunk it's notable that it's never been the major component of Palestinian nationalism in terms of defining what they are.
 
I think that:

1) all Arab muslims who could own land in Palestine are considered Palestinians.

2) all non-muslims who always lived in Palestine are considered Palestinians.

3) any non-muslims who immigrated to those lands to threaten the muslim majority are considered outsiders.
 
I think that:

1) all Arab muslims who could own land in Palestine are considered Palestinians.

2) all non-muslims who always lived in Palestine are considered Palestinians.

3) any non-muslims who immigrated to those lands to threaten the muslim majority are considered outsiders.

1 is correct ...
3 is correct ...
2 is a little more complicated ...

Druze are generally considered Arab but not Palestinian ...it is essentially that many of them did not side with the Arab cause during the War of independence ...

The Bedouins also find themselves in a similar boat because their interests had little to do with Arab nationalism ...

The Christians sided with the Muslim Arabs on everything so are considered Palestinian ...

European Jews were the initial enemy but the Mizrahi Jews also came under that brush ...So while there was an initial distinction between Zionist Europeans who wanted control and the Mizrahi this didn't last long ...

Along with existing communities many Jewish communities from the Maghreb immigrated to Israel, bought land etc and this predated the European immigration ...and generally isn't considered anything other than flight within the Ottoman Empire ...

They were generally accepted ...they had more of a shared culture ...the Europeans were essentially the 'other'...

The Mizrahim at least at the beginning were considered different to the Europeans ...the will for power wasn't there for the Mizrahim ...there was a sense of Jewish solidarity but not for Zionism...that said the rules regarding land sales to Jews included them ...

The 1929 massacres though of mainly Mizrahim is where that changed ...Palestinians had prior stated they distinguished between Jew and Zionist but the riots of 1929 placed the Mizrahim into the Zionist camp ...as did the rules on Jews in general ...eg - while not supporting Zionism one could oppose the law on land sales and on preventing Jewish immigration ...

Jews became viewed solely as Jews irregardless of their politics ...

This change actually was a poor move ...the emphasis of religious and national identity over cultural identity for the Mizrahim was the result ...and made the Zionists a much more unified force ...
 
1 is correct ...
3 is correct ...
2 is a little more complicated ...

Druze are generally considered Arab but not Palestinian ...it is essentially that many of them did not side with the Arab cause during the War of independence ...

The Bedouins also find themselves in a similar boat because their interests had little to do with Arab nationalism ...

The Christians sided with the Muslim Arabs on everything so are considered Palestinian ...

European Jews were the initial enemy but the Mizrahi Jews also came under that brush ...So while there was an initial distinction between Zionist Europeans who wanted control and the Mizrahi this didn't last long ...

Along with existing communities many Jewish communities from the Maghreb immigrated to Israel, bought land etc and this predated the European immigration ...and generally isn't considered anything other than flight within the Ottoman Empire ...

They were generally accepted ...they had more of a shared culture ...the Europeans were essentially the 'other'...

The Mizrahim at least at the beginning were considered different to the Europeans ...the will for power wasn't there for the Mizrahim ...there was a sense of Jewish solidarity but not for Zionism...that said the rules regarding land sales to Jews included them ...

The 1929 massacres though of mainly Mizrahim is where that changed ...Palestinians had prior stated they distinguished between Jew and Zionist but the riots of 1929 placed the Mizrahim into the Zionist camp ...as did the rules on Jews in general ...eg - while not supporting Zionism one could oppose the law on land sales and on preventing Jewish immigration ...

Jews became viewed solely as Jews irregardless of their politics ...

This change actually was a poor move ...the emphasis of religious and national identity over cultural identity for the Mizrahim was the result ...and made the Zionists a much more unified force ...

Thank you for this enlightening post.

So its 1929 where the line between simple jews and zionist jews got blurred which eventually resulted in strengthening of Zionists (numerically and otherwise). I am not well read on why the riots took place but i wonder if it was simply the stupidity of Arab muslims or were the riots engineered to make Zionists stronger?
 
Thank you for this enlightening post.

So its 1929 where the line between simple jews and zionist jews got blurred which eventually resulted in strengthening of Zionists (numerically and otherwise). I am not well read on why the riots took place but i wonder if it was simply the stupidity of Arab muslims or were the riots engineered to make Zionists stronger?

It's religious essentially...ie sovereignty over the Temple Mount and Western Wall...

What was never in doubt was the Zionists wanted sovereignty over the Western Wall which they were restricted from praying at...and wanted it expanded...the Arab residents then built around the wall when that aim was known...

What did permeate the mind of the Arabs is this:

[In their deeds and declarations in 1929] the Jews showed that their ambition was to seize control of the Islamic sites sacred to us, and especially the noble al-Buraq, and to rebuild Solomon’s Temple on its site, on part of the precinct of the blessed al-Aqsa. The inhabitants of Palestinian cities began to stage demonstrations, while fellahin from our villages commenced offensives and clashes, battles and the destruction of settlements, and attacks on the Mandate police and the British army.

So the Arabs believed that the Jews wanted to replace Al Aqsa mosque with their temple...I guess the question is was there truth to this?...at the very least there was no public proclamation of this intention...

A few months later [after the end of World War I], Dr. Chaim Weizmann arrived in Jerusalem, as the head of the Zionist Executive, and in a speech he made at an official event hosted by the governor of the Jerusalem District on April 27 he said: “Jerusalem is a holy sanctuary for the Jews, and as such— and for other reasons— the Jews respect the religious sentiments of all other communities that also see this land as a holy one. It would behoove all of them to know that the Jews do not even conceive in any way of harming the holy places to which the Muslim and Christian worlds direct their gazes.” . . . The Jewish National Council [the Jewish communal government under the British Mandate] made a similar declaration following the incident in question [the placement of the divider by the Western Wall in 1928:] “We state it with a pure heart and full confidence that no Jew has ever thought and is not thinking now in any way whatsoever of impinging on Muslim rights and their holy places.” (quoted in Al-Wikalah al-Yahudiyyah 1931, 4– 5)

This speech was distributed to the Arab community...but there was a genuine belief that the Jews wanted to seize the mosque...was the speech a sincere one?...

As it happens there was a group of plotters who wanted to blow up the mosque...and the Haganah liquidated them...

At least at that moment in time the mainstream Yishuv weren't thinking about the building of a temple...the priority was the Wall...that said the promise of a Temple exists in Judaism so you can understand the Arab position?...

So this the prelim to the riots...

The conflict had thus dilineated into the religious...and this is where the line between the Zionist and Mizrahim was beginning to fade...for instance one might be opposed to the creation of a new state yet also feel that they want to pray at the Western Wall...

Both sides blame the other for the violence that ensued...the Arabs blame the Jews because they wanted to build their temple...while the Jews blame the Arab leaderships for inciting the people against Jews in general...
 
It's religious essentially...ie sovereignty over the Temple Mount and Western Wall...

What was never in doubt was the Zionists wanted sovereignty over the Western Wall which they were restricted from praying at...and wanted it expanded...the Arab residents then built around the wall when that aim was known...

What did permeate the mind of the Arabs is this:



So the Arabs believed that the Jews wanted to replace Al Aqsa mosque with their temple...I guess the question is was there truth to this?...at the very least there was no public proclamation of this intention...



This speech was distributed to the Arab community...but there was a genuine belief that the Jews wanted to seize the mosque...was the speech a sincere one?...

As it happens there was a group of plotters who wanted to blow up the mosque...and the Haganah liquidated them...

At least at that moment in time the mainstream Yishuv weren't thinking about the building of a temple...the priority was the Wall...that said the promise of a Temple exists in Judaism so you can understand the Arab position?...

So this the prelim to the riots...

The conflict had thus dilineated into the religious...and this is where the line between the Zionist and Mizrahim was beginning to fade...for instance one might be opposed to the creation of a new state yet also feel that they want to pray at the Western Wall...

Both sides blame the other for the violence that ensued...the Arabs blame the Jews because they wanted to build their temple...while the Jews blame the Arab leaderships for inciting the people against Jews in general...

Amazing, all of this. I need to do a lot of reading on it. I only have scattered knowledge of it. Would you recommend a book?

And one thing is for sure, the Jews were backed by the British and hence the fear of Arabs (even if delusional) would have been very strong.

And there are other questions whether the rumours of building a temple were all propaganda deliberately done to get a violent reaction from Arabs to get more support for Zionists and unite them.
 
I think that:

1) all Arab muslims who could own land in Palestine are considered Palestinians.

2) all non-muslims who always lived in Palestine are considered Palestinians.

3) any non-muslims who immigrated to those lands to threaten the muslim majority are considered outsiders.

Amazing, all of this. I need to do a lot of reading on it. I only have scattered knowledge of it. Would you recommend a book?

And one thing is for sure, the Jews were backed by the British and hence the fear of Arabs (even if delusional) would have been very strong.

And there are other questions whether the rumours of building a temple were all propaganda deliberately done to get a violent reaction from Arabs to get more support for Zionists and unite them.

I am working through the books of Hillel Cohen at the moment ...he's particularly good on pre-1948 and isn't partisan ...

It's largely a myth that the British backed the Jews against the Arabs ...the British backed the Hashemites first and foremost ...

To put things in perspective ...Transjordan is also a creation and was offered to the King ...the original size of the Jewish homeland was significantly bigger but the San Remo conference in 1920 expanded the borders of Transjordan and reduced the size of the Jewish state ...

Both the Jews and the Arabs in the mandate felt the British didn't support them and essentially Britain was trying and failing to balance the interests of both sides ...

The Brits allowed Arab immigration and prevented Jewish immigration at the behest of the Arabs ...

Britain is known for Balfour but if you look at what followed then it's a different story ...in 1917 they were pro Jewish homeland but that changed as national interests changed ...the Brits spent the last ten years fighting the Jewish militias in fact ...Husseini was their guy :) ...It's part of the reason they eventually decided they wanted out...by the war they were vehemently anti-Israel ...

They didn't assist the Jews during the war either ...

They rejected the Partition plan in the UN ...

When Israel was established they voted against admitting them in the UN...

They also recognised the annexation of the West Bank by Jordan ...the only other two nations that did that were Iraq and Pakistan ...

It's fashionable now to say that the Brits and US established Israel because they are pro-Israel now so that narrative is falsely pushed ...but it was the Soviets who were pro-Israel during the war ...

As for the temple thing ...I dealt with that in my previous post ...if anything it's scaremongering ...
 
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