What people don't realise about a Covid-safe tour in New Zealand.......

[Junaids]

Too many people on this forum seem to think that the Pakistan tour of New Zealand is comparable in its precautions to the Pakistan tour of England, or even the Indian tour of Australia.

It's completely different. Let me explain why.

1. The tour of England was to a place in the middle of a pandemic, with the players from both sides isolated and staying in hotels built into the stadium. The players had no contact with the public at any point.

2. The tour of Australia is to a country which is closed to international travel (outward as well as inbound) in which different states have taken slightly different approaches to Covid suppression. After 14 days hard quarantine, the Indians were free to mingle with the public, but in a country which retains distancing in most cities. Even once the Indians completed their quarantine, they and everyone else in Sydney are subject to Social Distancing, masks on public transport and reduced stadium and restaurant capacity.

3. The tour to New Zealand is to a country which is closed to inbound international travel, and which had a very strict lockdown to eliminate coronavirus. Cases now only arise in returned travelers from overseas, who face strict 14 day quarantine in supervised hotels. But they AND THE PAKISTANIS are released on Day 15 into a country with no Coronavirus in the community, where everybody - including the Pakistan team - is free to go to any shop or restaurant or stadium without restrictions.

England could afford for their biosecure bubble to have positive cases because the players would have been in a hotel attached to the stadium in a country which already had community transmission anyway.

New Zealand cannot afford for anyone to pass the virus into the community where it worked so hard to eradicate all cases. Because there are no restrictions in the community now - life is completely normal apart from overseas travel.

 

[Aman]

Well said.

The government is doing their best to ensure the virus is kept out of the community.

It would be a disaster if there were to be another outbreak when all of this could have been avoided if people weren't idiots and adhered to protocols.

There was someone who broke managed isolation (think he tested positive too) to go shop at Countdown, a lot of people were ****** and wanted him to serve jail time.

Most people here take COVID seriously and wont tolerate idiots reintroducing it into the community and putting the country in lockdown again.

 

[angrypathan]

Hear hear.

 

[hur rizvi]

I understand the seriousness of NZ in managing Covid but with these restrictions, they should not be hosting cricket teams with 50+ members in the touring party.

Cricket is not the end of life, it can wait till the end of the pandemic and that is when NZ should start hosting again

 

[Indiafan]

What people don't realize, is that attitude shown by Akhtar etc, is sending a message that Pakistan might not be serious about their own covid policies. There are so many people on this forum saying its not a big deal if rules are broken etc. This will cause touring teams to have a doubt about safety in pakistan because of COVID protocols breached or not taken seriously

 

[naseem]

My answer is simple .....sent the team back.....and also wait for everything to become normal and then arrange international tours.....dont tour any country and neither invite any team........

 

[naseem]

What people don't realize, is that attitude shown by Akhtar etc, is sending a message that Pakistan might not be serious about their own covid policies. There are so many people on this forum saying its not a big deal if rules are broken etc. This will cause touring teams to have a doubt about safety in pakistan because of COVID protocols breached or not taken seriously

Yes yes ....another excuse for not touring......we have seen lot of them...and shamelessly entire world will see how these very teams will tour sooner or later to a country who is topping the global charts on Covid......

 

[naseem]

NZC is doing this just bcoz they have a feeling of power of being somebody from their clan as ICC chairman........ May be some boards are fuelling it who knows.....

 

[Indiafan]

My answer is simple .....sent the team back.....and also wait for everything to become normal and then arrange international tours.....dont tour any country and neither invite any team........

I think some of you are not aware of how NZ are managing this

This is NOT like England bio bubble. After quarantine, the players are free to go out and mingle. Go to shops, malls. There will be crowd in the matches who will handle the balls. All NZ was asking was not break rules during quarantine period. In this arrangement you can understand how even a sinlge player can introduce the disease in a country where there is none

 

[naseem]

I think some of you are not aware of how NZ are managing this

This is NOT like England bio bubble. After quarantine, the players are free to go out and mingle. Go to shops, malls. There will be crowd in the matches who will handle the balls. All NZ was asking was not break rules during quarantine period. In this arrangement you can understand how even a sinlge player can introduce the disease in a country where there is none

In the age of globalisation ......until and unless u r cutting urself off with the entire world u won't b having zero cases of covid.....
My ans is simple stop arranging international tours ...
Players following the bubble rule since England series....esp somebody like Saheen......I don't think he is out of bubble for even a week...from this to that bubble ...it's mentally tough......yes they must adhere to protocols..... But after all they r all humans with emotions...

Having said that I support strict action against those who have broken the protocols....

I m repeating it again.....NZC better off arranging international cricket.....until it's completely over

 

[Indiafan]

In the age of globalisation ......until and unless u r cutting urself off with the entire world u won't b having zero cases of covid.....
My ans is simple stop arranging international tours ...
Players following the bubble rule since England series....esp somebody like Saheen......I don't think he is out of bubble for even a week...from this to that bubble ...it's mentally tough......yes they must adhere to protocols..... But after all they r all humans with emotions...

Having said that I support strict action against those who have broken the protocols....

I m repeating it again.....NZC better off arranging international cricket.....until it's completely over

But new Zealand has managed to do just that by their rules. You can keep claiming it wont work and NZ will laugh because if has worked for them

Why should new Zealand stop arranging tours because one undisciplined team cannot follow protocols? It's not their fault for expecting adults to behave like adults

Your logic reminds me a lot of those good for nothing students in school who wanted the entire class thrown out because they couldn't behave. A very juvenile mentality

 

[naseem]

But new Zealand has managed to do just that by their rules. You can keep claiming it wont work and NZ will laugh because if has worked for them

Why should new Zealand stop arranging tours because one undisciplined team cannot follow protocols? It's not their fault for expecting adults to behave like adults

Your logic reminds me a lot of those good for nothing students in school who wanted the entire class thrown out because they couldn't behave. A very juvenile mentality

U can call me juvenile but it's only a practical thing.....I m not saying players have done the ri8 thing....I m saying they r humans first then adults.....and not robots....
U are allowing 54 ....ppl from outside ....who at any point can catch covid..... U are a covid free nation but others are not..... U must be prepared for it...in case of positive covid results u must isolate them...and do whatever is necessary until they turn negative.....

Yes u r a covid free nation but world is not....and NZ population is exactly what percent of world.....???

Or what percent of Asia...???

Or forget that what percent of India subcontinent..???

Forget that even what percent of Pak..???

It is easier to make a small area of smaller population free from pandemic but it's unfair 2 expect that u won't get a covid case in future and go on arranging international tours.....

Ur comment reminds me of that assistant of school principal who is more snobbish and strict than the principal as if the entire school belongs to him....

I have stated what is practical.......

 

[Thunderbolt14]

Too many people on this forum seem to think that the Pakistan tour of New Zealand is comparable in its precautions to the Pakistan tour of England, or even the Indian tour of Australia.

It's completely different. Let me explain why.

1. The tour of England was to a place in the middle of a pandemic, with the players from both sides isolated and staying in hotels built into the stadium. The players had no contact with the public at any point.

2. The tour of Australia is to a country which is closed to international travel (outward as well as inbound) in which different states have taken slightly different approaches to Covid suppression. After 14 days hard quarantine, the Indians were free to mingle with the public, but in a country which retains distancing in most cities. Even once the Indians completed their quarantine, they and everyone else in Sydney are subject to Social Distancing, masks on public transport and reduced stadium and restaurant capacity.

3. The tour to New Zealand is to a country which is closed to inbound international travel, and which had a very strict lockdown to eliminate coronavirus. Cases now only arise in returned travelers from overseas, who face strict 14 day quarantine in supervised hotels. But they AND THE PAKISTANIS are released on Day 15 into a country with no Coronavirus in the community, where everybody - including the Pakistan team - is free to go to any shop or restaurant or stadium without restrictions.

England could afford for their biosecure bubble to have positive cases because the players would have been in a hotel attached to the stadium in a country which already had community transmission anyway.

New Zealand cannot afford for anyone to pass the virus into the community where it worked so hard to eradicate all cases. Because there are no restrictions in the community now - life is completely normal apart from overseas travel.

Wait will there be crowds in NZ stadiums then?

 

[saeed5646]

What people don't realize, is that attitude shown by Akhtar etc, is sending a message that Pakistan might not be serious about their own covid policies. There are so many people on this forum saying its not a big deal if rules are broken etc. This will cause touring teams to have a doubt about safety in pakistan because of COVID protocols breached or not taken seriously

Pakistan was one of the best asian country to control covid 19 first wave .I am not sure why are you generalizing few people &akhtar with whole Pakistan .Pakistan is "serious" about covid policies and done quite well then few of ours ""serious" neighbour's

 

[Indiafan]

Wait will there be crowds in NZ stadiums then?

Yep. And players will also be able to go put to shop, malls, etc

 

[naseem]

Apparently there is crowd in the ongoing ind Aus match too

 

[JibranAnsari]

All pakistani players and mangement had to do was follow the rules before all the results of the tests came back negative and they failed to do so.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

My answer is simple .....sent the team back.....and also wait for everything to become normal and then arrange international tours.....dont tour any country and neither invite any team........

You seem like a very young guy who doesn't know the harshness and consequences of the viral spread. How even 1 person can transmit the virus to 200-600 people in 10 days which may or may not result in mortalities. The toll COVID has been taking on the world since last 1 year is insane. NZ are the only country where there is no case present which is akin to winning a war.

If god forbid, covid starts spreading in NZ again, it would be like starting another war.

PCB and its authorities should have made our players clear what precautions they need to take and what stuff they should and should not do. Sending a large group of 35 players was also a mistake with many ungroomed young guys who may not have toured another country before or know the consequences of the virus.

The warning stuff seems more like coming from NZ government rather than NZ Cricket.

It shouldn't be taken as personal defamation but a stern message to change our habits for betterment of both ourselves and their country.

We have been firmly and sternly telling the patients in the ER's and OPD's of government hospitals here in Pakistan but only 5-10% give a hoot to what we say. You talk to people and try to educate them, they fire back on how doctors and healthcare workers are paid millions by the outside forces to spread false rumors. You talk to normal people and they come up with conspiracy theories like everything is fine in first class country, it is Bill Gates conspiracy against Pakistan and Muslims and what not.

A lot of players in our team consider themselves above the rules and regulations due to their "superstar" status afforded to them by fans or just in their heads. They do need a reality check.

 

[angrypathan]

Wait will there be crowds in NZ stadiums then?

Yes, full capacity allowed.

 

[naseem]

You seem like a very young guy who doesn't know the harshness and consequences of the viral spread. How even 1 person can transmit the virus to 200-600 people in 10 days which may or may not result in mortalities. The toll COVID has been taking on the world since last 1 year is insane. NZ are the only country where there is no case present which is akin to winning a war.

If god forbid, covid starts spreading in NZ again, it would be like starting another war.

PCB and its authorities should have made our players clear what precautions they need to take and what stuff they should and should not do. Sending a large group of 35 players was also a mistake with many ungroomed young guys who may not have toured another country before or know the consequences of the virus.

The warning stuff seems more like coming from NZ government rather than NZ Cricket.

It shouldn't be taken as personal defamation but a stern message to change our habits for betterment of both ourselves and their country.

We have been firmly and sternly telling the patients in the ER's and OPD's of government hospitals here in Pakistan but only 5-10% give a hoot to what we say. You talk to people and try to educate them, they fire back on how doctors and healthcare workers are paid millions by the outside forces to spread false rumors. You talk to normal people and they come up with conspiracy theories like everything is fine in first class country, it is Bill Gates conspiracy against Pakistan and Muslims and what not.

A lot of players in our team consider themselves above the rules and regulations due to their "superstar" status afforded to them by fans or just in their heads. They do need a reality check.

I know very well......but if u compare the area and population of Pak and NZ.....u can say Pak has had tougher job and they have done well.....they have cut off the spread....organise domestic tours......hosted foreign players and a team.....

Players are human and are prone to error...

NZC has reason to get annoyed but that annoyance is somewhat blown out of proportion.....

I have said situation could have been easily handled both by the NZ govt and board ....

I m telling again and again.....players who are at fault must be penalised

 

[Varun]

Yes yes ....another excuse for not touring......we have seen lot of them...and shamelessly entire world will see how these very teams will tour sooner or later to a country who is topping the global charts on Covid......

I can assure you that nobody is going to tour India. The India - England series will likely take place in the UAE.

 

[Junaids]

In the age of globalisation ......until and unless u r cutting urself off with the entire world u won't b having zero cases of covid.....
My ans is simple stop arranging international tours ...

You seem like a genuinely nice person, so please don't feel insulted when I now pass on to you what I learned at medical school.

1. We already have a playbook for how to manage pandemics for which there is no treatment and no vaccine. From the Plague to Spanish Flu to Polio to Bird Flu to Swine Flu.

2. Look at photos from the Spanish Flu pandemic 101 years ago. Masks. Social Distancing. Closed international borders. Closed domestic borders.

3. Our playbook gives us examples (famously American Samoa versus New Zealand Samoa 100 years ago) about what causes mass deaths and mass economic destruction. The answer is that they are caused by business lobbying for "normalisation". The UK made two catastrophic blunders in the last four months, namely:

a) Allowing tourism within Europe without punitively expensive hotel quarantine imported the virus back in, and
b) "Eat Out to Help Out" spread the virus to every corner of the country.

You talk as if "cutting yourself off from the entire world" is negative for the economy. It isn't - it has allowed life in Australia and New Zealand to be almost normal since our lockdowns wiped out the virus.

I finished work in New South Wales, Australia at 3 pm today, 100 metres from the border with Queensland. I then took almost an hour in a traffic jam at the border (which didn't exist before the pandemic) to cross to go to visit an old work colleague at her house. Upon arrival I gave her a hug, because there is no circulating virus here - it's safe.

We all know that in normal times a conservative government is stronger on the economy. But centuries of experience tell us that right-wing governments almost always bungle pandemics by being too keen to open up.

The three best-managed places in the world during this pandemic have been New Zealand, Western Australia and Queensland, all under Labor/Labour governments.

And the best-managed place which has had a full-blown outbreak and defeated it is Victoria - under a Labor government.

I think the problem has been that the Pakistan tourists thought that this was a tour like the one to England. They haven't understood that New Zealand has managed this Pandemic better than anywhere else in the world, and that they are going to have total freedom, but that this requires strict adherence to the initial quarantine rules.

This tour was perfectly safe, if only the Pakistanis followed the rules.

 

[kingusama92]

I'm almost certain Pakistani media/fans/players can protest anything now.

1. He spot-fixed, but he was influenced.
2. I'm fat, but I wasn't aware of the new fitness standards.
3. He used a racial slur, but it's commonly used on the streets.
4. I bit the ball, but I was trying to smell it.
5. He doesn't perform, but they actually won't pick him cause he's from XYZ city/team/village/neighborhood.

The first reaction is always to find a random angle and protest. Almost everything has an emotional angle to the point of unbelievable creativity.

There is such a thing as accepting when you're wrong, putting your head down, and moving on.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

I know very well......but if u compare the area and population of Pak and NZ.....u can say Pak has had tougher job and they have done well.....they have cut off the spread....organise domestic tours......hosted foreign players and a team.....

Players are human and are prone to error...

NZC has reason to get annoyed but that annoyance is somewhat blown out of proportion.....

I have said situation could have been easily handled both by the NZ govt and board ....

I m telling again and again.....players who are at fault must be penalised

How would one's parents react if one has just cleaned his house and and asked his friends to come over after taking permission from his parents and then his friends bring explosives to the house. Not very nice cause it's a matter of life and death.

No that's the point, our nation has not handled it well. Just because miraculously somehow corona hasn't caused as much mortalities in Pakistan, doesn't mean we have handled it well. Majority of our population has been infected. It's sort of a miracle that not as many have developed morbidities and mortalities as one would assume. But the ice berg phenomena here is MASSIVE. the no of cases that have been reported are not even 10% in our country.
Yes the population in Pakistan is huge and we have been suffering from lack of infrastructure, facilities, brain and commonsense. God forbid if virus starts infecting our people severely, things would get out of control.
There is no credit to claim for, for the govt and politicians and alike here.

Coming on to the topic, yes the players must be penalised. Acc to CI, Rohail Nazir, Sarfraz, Danish Aziz, Naseem Shah, Abbas, Abid Ali are the ones who have come out positive.
Rohail, Danish and Naseem are immature and young. All the young and immature players should have been kept under a strict watch. But Sarfraz, Abbas and Abid Ali should have done better.
They need to realise that not following protocol is not going to make them look strong or savage but just stupid.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

What people don't realize, is that attitude shown by Akhtar etc, is sending a message that Pakistan might not be serious about their own covid policies. There are so many people on this forum saying its not a big deal if rules are broken etc. This will cause touring teams to have a doubt about safety in pakistan because of COVID protocols breached or not taken seriously

No one cares about what nincompoops like Shoaib Akhtar have to say, least NZ cricket and New Zealand government. Even our own board doesn't pay any attention to the goof.

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

I'm almost certain Pakistani media/fans/players can protest anything now.

1. He spot-fixed, but he was influenced.
2. I'm fat, but I wasn't aware of the new fitness standards.
3. He used a racial slur, but it's commonly used on the streets.
4. I bit the ball, but I was trying to smell it.
5. He doesn't perform, but they actually won't pick him cause he's from XYZ city/team/village/neighborhood.

The first reaction is always to find a random angle and protest. Almost everything has an emotional angle to the point of unbelievable creativity.

There is such a thing as accepting when you're wrong, putting your head down, and moving on.

The sad part is I've read many of these excuses in PP over the years.

Accountability is the key. Ideally someone from PCB should resign and publicly apologize.

It is not overreaction; it is being responsible for your actions.

 

[naseem]

You seem like a genuinely nice person, so please don't feel insulted when I now pass on to you what I learned at medical school.

1. We already have a playbook for how to manage pandemics for which there is no treatment and no vaccine. From the Plague to Spanish Flu to Polio to Bird Flu to Swine Flu.

2. Look at photos from the Spanish Flu pandemic 101 years ago. Masks. Social Distancing. Closed international borders. Closed domestic borders.

3. Our playbook gives us examples (famously American Samoa versus New Zealand Samoa 100 years ago) about what causes mass deaths and mass economic destruction. The answer is that they are caused by business lobbying for "normalisation". The UK made two catastrophic blunders in the last four months, namely:

a) Allowing tourism within Europe without punitively expensive hotel quarantine imported the virus back in, and
b) "Eat Out to Help Out" spread the virus to every corner of the country.

You talk as if "cutting yourself off from the entire world" is negative for the economy. It isn't - it has allowed life in Australia and New Zealand to be almost normal since our lockdowns wiped out the virus.

I finished work in New South Wales, Australia at 3 pm today, 100 metres from the border with Queensland. I then took almost an hour in a traffic jam at the border (which didn't exist before the pandemic) to cross to go to visit an old work colleague at her house. Upon arrival I gave her a hug, because there is no circulating virus here - it's safe.

We all know that in normal times a conservative government is stronger on the economy. But centuries of experience tell us that right-wing governments almost always bungle pandemics by being too keen to open up.

The three best-managed places in the world during this pandemic have been New Zealand, Western Australia and Queensland, all under Labor/Labour governments.

And the best-managed place which has had a full-blown outbreak and defeated it is Victoria - under a Labor government.

I think the problem has been that the Pakistan tourists thought that this was a tour like the one to England. They haven't understood that New Zealand has managed this Pandemic better than anywhere else in the world, and that they are going to have total freedom, but that this requires strict adherence to the initial quarantine rules.

This tour was perfectly safe, if only the Pakistanis followed the rules.

Nice post..


No nothing 2 feel insulted about.....very good post ...very informative.. thanks..

 

[Aman]

Wait will there be crowds in NZ stadiums then?

Crowds allowed, no restrictions.

 

[Corridor of Uncertainty]

Too many people on this forum seem to think that the Pakistan tour of New Zealand is comparable in its precautions to the Pakistan tour of England, or even the Indian tour of Australia.

It's completely different. Let me explain why.

1. The tour of England was to a place in the middle of a pandemic, with the players from both sides isolated and staying in hotels built into the stadium. The players had no contact with the public at any point.

2. The tour of Australia is to a country which is closed to international travel (outward as well as inbound) in which different states have taken slightly different approaches to Covid suppression. After 14 days hard quarantine, the Indians were free to mingle with the public, but in a country which retains distancing in most cities. Even once the Indians completed their quarantine, they and everyone else in Sydney are subject to Social Distancing, masks on public transport and reduced stadium and restaurant capacity.

3. The tour to New Zealand is to a country which is closed to inbound international travel, and which had a very strict lockdown to eliminate coronavirus. Cases now only arise in returned travelers from overseas, who face strict 14 day quarantine in supervised hotels. But they AND THE PAKISTANIS are released on Day 15 into a country with no Coronavirus in the community, where everybody - including the Pakistan team - is free to go to any shop or restaurant or stadium without restrictions.

England could afford for their biosecure bubble to have positive cases because the players would have been in a hotel attached to the stadium in a country which already had community transmission anyway.

New Zealand cannot afford for anyone to pass the virus into the community where it worked so hard to eradicate all cases. Because there are no restrictions in the community now - life is completely normal apart from overseas travel.

No disagreement with all you said about NZ's handling of Pandemic. A global standard.

Complete disagreement on how the Pakistanis have been handled by their government and later the media.

They could have said the harshest of things to Pakistan team management and Wasim Khan in private, including the possibility of cancellation of tour.

They chose to make small details public and used words like 'privilege', 'behavior' and final warning.

It is NOT a privilege to play in NZ anywhere than anywhere else in the world. Just because the country is Covid-free does not make it into a holy site. Teams would love to play in UK or US or South Africa just as much - COVID restrictions or not.

NZ health and its journalists should be ashamed of themselves for treating their visitors with disrespect. The one area where NZ is shining star in the world and they turn it into a 'we are superior to everyone' story.

 

[chacha kashmiri]

No disagreement with all you said about NZ's handling of Pandemic. A global standard.

Complete disagreement on how the Pakistanis have been handled by their government and later the media.

They could have said the harshest of things to Pakistan team management and Wasim Khan in private, including the possibility of cancellation of tour.

They chose to make small details public and used words like 'privilege', 'behavior' and final warning.

It is NOT a privilege to play in NZ anywhere than anywhere else in the world. Just because the country is Covid-free does not make it into a holy site. Teams would love to play in UK or US or South Africa just as much - COVID restrictions or not.

NZ health and its journalists should be ashamed of themselves for treating their visitors with disrespect. The one area where NZ is shining star in the world and they turn it into a 'we are superior to everyone' story.

I agree with you about keeping it on the down low

And just for comparison no one used the same adjectives when jofra archer broke the rules while some haven’t been able to see their aunties or grand mums since April because of lockdown

Sport stars don’t realise how privileged they are to be able to use airlines

 

[ahmedzee]

As i mentioned in the other thread, the measures in place in NZ (maybe only successful country against widespread covid apart from China) does not 100% guarantee that COVID-19 won't spread. There will always be cases due to the extremely infectious nature of this virus. Those measures would probably have 97% success rate, not 100%. I am probably the only one here saying I don't blame either parties, NZ or Pak team. Some cases were bound to come out.

 

[Junaids]

Everybody, and I mean everybody, should read this to understand where Pakistan is currently touring....

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-28/what-australia-can-learn-from-new-zealand/12922956