What target can Pakistan successfully chase to win the 2nd Test against West Indies?

[BouncerGuy]

Lead has already crossed 60 runs and west indies still has 9 wickets remaining..

What target can Pakistan easily chase on this pitch??

 

[Hitman]

Pakistan chasing 300 odd would be fun to watch. It would be good cricket overall. Of course, I'm speaking from the perspective of a neutral fan. Pakistani fans would certainly prefer an insignificant target to chase.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Pakistan is not chasing anything above 150

 

[Vikram1989]

Not more than 200.quite risky depending on pitch and pak batsmen mentality. They are streamrolling opposition on dust bowls and not expected any fight from not chased any good score in 4th innings till now.

 

[Hitman]

Regardless of what happens, PCB has done a ton of good for their team by giving up on dead tracks.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Lead nearing 200 and the game is slowly getting away from Pakistan

 

[Rana]

We have king so 500

 

[Kianig89]

270 WI tail is very strong

 

[SpiritOf1903]

150 was their limit. Let alone 250/300+

No excuses not to get a 50+ lead the first innings

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Even 400 can be chased when you have guys like Rizwan and Shakeel in your lineup

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Huraira is below average test player & shouldn't have been debuted after his run of poor form in domestic cricket which is already a below average competition to start. Shan averages 30 so that's his pedigree. Babar can't buy a run & his replacement KG had one fluke innings so far & that's about it. Saud & Rizwan can score in one innings of a test & they've done that in the first innings. Agha is not a player I would ever select to play test cricket. Sajid & Noman have been terrible in this series & Abrar is just a slogger who doesn't even have power. Kashif probably has never scored a 50 even in domestic.

Add pressure of the 4th innings to win a test & low bounce & it's fairly easy to deduce the outcome of this test.

A terrible WTC cycle ending precisely as it started, in crisis & without a future roadmap.

 

[BouncerGuy]

250 mark coming... Pakistan is doomed...

Top order has to click today to chase it.

 

[Deewana Mastana]

Can they even chase is the question

 

[BouncerGuy]

Can they even chase is the question

Nay... this team is too weak mentally... They will think that this pitch is a minefield and will crumble

 

[Devadwal]

Even 400 can be chased when you have guys like Rizwan and Shakeel in your lineup

Pakistan just needs 254 runs. A easy win is loading for pakistan.

 

[Vikram1989]

A terrible WTC cycle ending precisely as it started, in crisis & without a future roadmap.

I will say much worse than the start.pcb removed kirsten and Gillespie unceremoniously .no credible foreign coach will not come to pak for atleast another 5 years.Einstein aqib idea is going to be ridiculed now.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Anything under 50 was chaseable..BUT Not now...

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

I will say much worse than the start.pcb removed kirsten and Gillespie unceremoniously .no credible foreign coach will not come to pak for atleast another 5 years.Einstein aqib idea is going to be ridiculed now.

It is clear to me that favorable conditions do not help you win unless you are good enough to win without them. Pak hasn't tasted victory in test cricket for a while so when they won a couple of tests using spinning conditions, they thought they had cracked the code & will become the next India. This is a fallacy & it's getting rightly debunked as India built their legacy on solid fundamentals & quality players. Even the team of 90s that didn't have a great away record had solid core of batters who had the potential to out bat any opposition anywhere.

If Pak somehow did well against Windies, the next few series in WTC cycle would have been a rude awakening to them when teams with better spinners were supposed to visit. England played in a manner which was disrespectful to the game & their bowling was atrocious. A half decent spinner here has shown how terrible England was in these conditions.

You cannot win tests with ordinary players & Pak has a plethora of them & unfortunately this is the bitter truth. You get good players because of good systems or freak generational talents & we have neither. Our domestic cricket is ordinary & they further diluted it by adding more teams that will inflate averages & ordinary players will look like world beaters. No one takes us seriously as a test team but most people in management positions as well as fans have their head in the clouds which is why we seldom improve.

Mind you, I do not mind negative results because all I want from my team is that they fight & show improvement instead of bullying weaker opposition & getting steamrolled by better teams. The pursuit of excellence is a journey that's its own reward but it never happens in Pak cricket. Every tournament or series loss is followed by superficial changes, stupid statements, angry tv shows, & the circus continues as before. Shan will be the scapegoat here but the problem is not skin deep & that's what frustrates me & that's why I lose my interest in cricket from time to time.

Long reply post, apologies for that.

 

[PakHammer]

I will say much worse than the start.pcb removed kirsten and Gillespie unceremoniously .no credible foreign coach will not come to pak for atleast another 5 years.Einstein aqib idea is going to be ridiculed now.

I quite liked Aqib's pre match press conference. But like a seasoned politician, he spoke well but the team did not back up his words in this match.
His quote that a foreign team to beat Pakistan in a test match at home will now have do something extra ordinary. No offence to the West Indies but they have not been extra ordinary in this test but still likely to win it.

 

[Vikram1989]

It is clear to me that favorable conditions do not help you win unless you are good enough to win without them. Pak hasn't tasted victory in test cricket for a while so when they won a couple of tests using spinning conditions, they thought they had cracked the code & will become the next India. This is a fallacy & it's getting rightly debunked as India built their legacy on solid fundamentals & quality players. Even the team of 90s that didn't have a great away record had solid core of batters who had the potential to out bat any opposition anywhere.

If Pak somehow did well against Windies, the next few series in WTC cycle would have been a rude awakening to them when teams with better spinners were supposed to visit. England played in a manner which was disrespectful to the game & their bowling was atrocious. A half decent spinner here has shown how terrible England was in these conditions.

You cannot win tests with ordinary players & Pak has a plethora of them & unfortunately this is the bitter truth. You get good players because of good systems or freak generational talents & we have neither. Our domestic cricket is ordinary & they further diluted it by adding more teams that will inflate averages & ordinary players will look like world beaters. No one takes us seriously as a test team but most people in management positions as well as fans have their head in the clouds which is why we seldom improve.

Mind you, I do not mind negative results because all I want from my team is that they fight & show improvement instead of bullying weaker opposition & getting steamrolled by better teams. The pursuit of excellence is a journey that's its own reward but it never happens in Pak cricket. Every tournament or series loss is followed by superficial changes, stupid statements, angry tv shows, & the circus continues as before. Shan will be the scapegoat here but the problem is not skin deep & that's what frustrates me & that's why I lose my interest in cricket from time to time.

Long reply post, apologies for that.

Enjoyed ur post bro .

I see the priority for short term benefits and instant success is the downfall of pak cricket team management and pcb.no one ever says we care for the team so we want to build the team from inner core and on the way to our success we may have embarrassing failures. Every one loves to hog the lime light and throw his team mates under the bus.aqib should have known the dangers with this approach but went ahead as it's the only way short cut at home.India won on dust bowls due to lower middle order

 

[jnaveen1980]

It is clear to me that favorable conditions do not help you win unless you are good enough to win without them. Pak hasn't tasted victory in test cricket for a while so when they won a couple of tests using spinning conditions, they thought they had cracked the code & will become the next India. This is a fallacy & it's getting rightly debunked as India built their legacy on solid fundamentals & quality players. Even the team of 90s that didn't have a great away record had solid core of batters who had the potential to out bat any opposition anywhere.

If Pak somehow did well against Windies, the next few series in WTC cycle would have been a rude awakening to them when teams with better spinners were supposed to visit. England played in a manner which was disrespectful to the game & their bowling was atrocious. A half decent spinner here has shown how terrible England was in these conditions.

You cannot win tests with ordinary players & Pak has a plethora of them & unfortunately this is the bitter truth. You get good players because of good systems or freak generational talents & we have neither. Our domestic cricket is ordinary & they further diluted it by adding more teams that will inflate averages & ordinary players will look like world beaters. No one takes us seriously as a test team but most people in management positions as well as fans have their head in the clouds which is why we seldom improve.

Mind you, I do not mind negative results because all I want from my team is that they fight & show improvement instead of bullying weaker opposition & getting steamrolled by better teams. The pursuit of excellence is a journey that's its own reward but it never happens in Pak cricket. Every tournament or series loss is followed by superficial changes, stupid statements, angry tv shows, & the circus continues as before. Shan will be the scapegoat here but the problem is not skin deep & that's what frustrates me & that's why I lose my interest in cricket from time to time.

Long reply post, apologies for that.

Historically PCB/Pakistan cricket has fetish for "short cuts". Similar to how they believed 10 day camp at Military camp would magically turn everyone into an athlete. There is no organized approach to solve a problem. No principles, fundamentals. They didn't have a stance on players who were involved in fixing matches. When they needed them , "its okay we can play them". This is one of those "short cuts" to solve a problem

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

Historically PCB/Pakistan cricket has fetish for "short cuts". Similar to how they believed 10 day camp at Military camp would magically turn everyone into an athlete. There is no organized approach to solve a problem. No principles, fundamentals. They didn't have a stance on players who were involved in fixing matches. When they needed them , "its okay we can play them". This is one of those "short cuts" to solve a problem

Strictly my opinion so can be fully wrong but imo the PCB head is handpicked by the army chief even though the constitution says that the PM should appoint a nominee for that. For this reason alone the PCB chief is just an extension of the army chief in crickets domain. If I look in the past 20 years this pattern becomes glaringly clear except a few years when outsiders managed to sneak into this role for a brief period.

It gets worse when the major role of the cricketing head is to somehow always lift the image of the forces instead of creating fair & nice systems that help build our cricket. It was done in 2010 as well when the team was sent on a training camp to Kakul & at that time we were lucky to draw the series 2-2 & all the plaudits went to the people who trained the team. The players even celebrated their milestones doing pushups to show gratitude to their trainers back in the academy.

As a seasoned athlete a 10, 20, or even 30 day fitness camp should have zero long term impact & very little short term impact on your performance if any at all but this training was hailed as such a great move & every channel within Pak focused on the impact of that. They tried this again before the T20 world cup but it backfired because the people weren't reading from the same page that they used to before & the team tanked spectacularly.

The current PCB chief also has just one goal & that revolves around grand hollow gestures to create an image that we can do things quickly & hence the hastily done stadium renovations. They had to make it grand so they can carry out their PR campaign of doing the impossible in so few days etc. & we'll see the whole shebang soon when the stadium will be inaugurated by a number of buffoons & clowns.

I did bring politics into this & yes I have a bias against the regime but it's not out of love of the deposed IK but it's there because I see through their phony gestures & moving outside Pak has helped me to broaden my vision & belief system. Even now the media is praising the PCB chief that he has invited all the workers to a cricket match & is hosting them for a luncheon. In truth so many of the workers are underpaid & a few of them may well even be underage (below 18) which is child labor & officially a crime. A worker was interviewed by a reporter & he said he was being paid 20K by the company that has hired him when in fact the minimum pay in Pak is set at 37K. This is a criminal offence but instead of working to fix structural issues like this which fall directly under his gambit, he'll be hailed as the person who revived Pak crickets infrastructure & completed the stadiums in record time.

This is what differentiates Pak from countries in EU where processes are developed, pathways are designed, & meritocracy runs supreme. Any one can become anything if they strive for that but in Pak no person can become PCB head or Director Cricket Operations no matter how well educated, experienced, or qualified they are for the job because a clown will handpick a person who butters him the most & he'll discretely run everything behind the scenes & get fake plaudits. Mind you PCB is the only sports association in Pak that makes money, hence is a gravy train of corruption & mismanagement, etc.

Fun tip: The construction of the stadiums is being done by FWO & Habib constructions, one is directly owned by army & the other is run by a tycoon who is hand in glove with establishment at all times. Meanwhile Pakistani people will be like omg, politics aside the PCB chief sahab has done such a great job that no one ever did before.

Rinse, repeat, eat, & continue strengthening the elite. Never change Pakistan

 

[Farabi]

It is clear to me that favorable conditions do not help you win unless you are good enough to win without them. Pak hasn't tasted victory in test cricket for a while so when they won a couple of tests using spinning conditions, they thought they had cracked the code & will become the next India. This is a fallacy & it's getting rightly debunked as India built their legacy on solid fundamentals & quality players. Even the team of 90s that didn't have a great away record had solid core of batters who had the potential to out bat any opposition anywhere.

If Pak somehow did well against Windies, the next few series in WTC cycle would have been a rude awakening to them when teams with better spinners were supposed to visit. England played in a manner which was disrespectful to the game & their bowling was atrocious. A half decent spinner here has shown how terrible England was in these conditions.

You cannot win tests with ordinary players & Pak has a plethora of them & unfortunately this is the bitter truth. You get good players because of good systems or freak generational talents & we have neither. Our domestic cricket is ordinary & they further diluted it by adding more teams that will inflate averages & ordinary players will look like world beaters. No one takes us seriously as a test team but most people in management positions as well as fans have their head in the clouds which is why we seldom improve.

Mind you, I do not mind negative results because all I want from my team is that they fight & show improvement instead of bullying weaker opposition & getting steamrolled by better teams. The pursuit of excellence is a journey that's its own reward but it never happens in Pak cricket. Every tournament or series loss is followed by superficial changes, stupid statements, angry tv shows, & the circus continues as before. Shan will be the scapegoat here but the problem is not skin deep & that's what frustrates me & that's why I lose my interest in cricket from time to time.

Long reply post, apologies for that.

In your entire monologue, you made a few weak assumptions, but the most glaring one is claiming that WI has better spinners than England. Seriously? J Leach is miles ahead of these average WI spinners.

England is a better test side than WI in every possible way. You’re just overreacting like everyone else.

The pitches for the WI series are completely different from the ones prepared for the England series.

Pakistan should go back to the kind of pitches used in the England series—offering less for spinners and more for batters. This greenhouse method is an Overkill. These WI pitches demand no real skill from spinners.

 

[GoUgandaCranes]

In your entire monologue, you made a few weak assumptions, but the most glaring one is claiming that WI has better spinners than England. Seriously? J Leach is miles ahead of these average WI spinners.

England is a better test side than WI in every possible way. You’re just overreacting like everyone else.

The pitches for the WI series are completely different from the ones prepared for the England series.

Pakistan should go back to the kind of pitches used in the England series—offering less for spinners and more for batters. This greenhouse method is an Overkill. These WI pitches demand no real skill from spinners.

Fact check 1:

Jack Leach - test average: 34
Moti - test average: 28 (excluding the current test which will definitely improve his average even further)

Fact check 2:

Never stated that England is worse or better than Windies, just stated that England adopted a mindless strategy that was disrespectful to cricket & lost because of that. Not a single batter tried to apply himself, Smith came in at 6 down or something & charged Sajid like a rampaging bull without even getting a feel for conditions.

Fact check 3:

This is not an overreaction to this test (we may even win it from here), it's just this statement that a good team has good players, we don't have many good players especially batters. Huraira, Shan, Kamran, Agha, & current Babar are not good batters. If you think they are, then no point in talking on this anymore.

 

[Farabi]

Fact check 1:

Jack Leach - test average: 34
Moti - test average: 28 (excluding the current test which will definitely improve his average even further)

Fact check 2:

Never stated that England is worse or better than Windies, just stated that England adopted a mindless strategy that was disrespectful to cricket & lost because of that. Not a single batter tried to apply himself, Smith came in at 6 down or something & charged Sajid like a rampaging bull without even getting a feel for conditions.

Fact check 3:

This is not an overreaction to this test (we may even win it from here), it's just this statement that a good team has good players, we don't have many good players especially batters. Huraira, Shan, Kamran, Agha, & current Babar are not good batters. If you think they are, then no point in talking on this anymore.

**Fact Check of Fact Check No. 1:**
You’re implying that WI spinners are better than English spinners, which just isn’t true. Stop wasting time on this narrative. Jack Leach is a better spinner than Motie. Out of Motie’s 34 wickets, 19 came in just two Tests against Zimbabwe. Outside of that, he’s been pretty average. Meanwhile, Leach has a much larger sample size and is widely regarded as a more accomplished spinner. WI spinners are bang average, and deep down, you know it.

**Fact Check of Fact Check No. 2:**
WI hasn’t exactly set an example of responsible batting either. Criticizing England’s Bazball as “mindless” or “disrespectful” is absurd. This approach has brought them a lot of success: a 3-0 Test series win in Pakistan, and victories in India and Australia. Clearly, it’s working for them, so calling it “mindless” makes no sense.

**Fact Check of Fact Check No. 3:**
This feels like an overreaction to the current Test without considering the nuances.

These pitches are nothing like the ones from the England series.

In the second Test against England, Pakistan posted 366 in the first innings, and England responded with 291.
In the third Test, England scored 266, and Pakistan followed with 344.
We saw centuries in both tests.

Those pitches weren’t minefields—they were slow turners that still required skill to dismiss batters.

Now, it feels like they’ve gone way too far with this new “greenhouse effect” curation method. We’re seeing 20 wickets fall on Day 1, which takes skill out of the equation and reduces the game to a shootout.

All spinners suddenly look great, and all batters are clueless. At this point, you’ve essentially forfeited your home advantage.

 

[Cricket Warrior]

wicket is tricky... so i think its almost impossible for Pakistan to chase this target.

 

[RidiculousMan]

It was under 150. That boat has sailed