What was the actual background of Mohammad Yousuf?

[Sachin fan]

Maybe you don't know how cricket works. But inzi played a major role in us winning it.

And Misbah played a major innings too and was let down by his team mates who did nothing.

If Pak bowlers had conceded 300 instead of 260 in the semis, would Pak have won?

In the final if the bowlers had failed to defend 249 in the final, would Pak have won?

 

[PakPremi]

I put him below Javed Miandad, Younis and maybe Inzi from the modern era.

He was a great batsman but didn't have the grit of the other guys.

Inzi was a better batsman than Younis Khan and so was Zaheer Abass despite Younis Khan better stats in tests.

 

[Pakpak]

This is very true. He has produced 2 clutch innings in ICC tournaments:

2004 CT: where he scored an unbeaten 81 to clutch Pakistan towards their first win against India in an ICC tournament
2009 CT: scored 87 off 88 balls to help Pakistan score 302. The men in green ended up winning this contest by 54 runs

Those 2 x innings are bigger than Misbah's career.

I think everything Yousaf did is better than Misbah's career to be fair.

Misbah in my opinion was lucky he was the better batsman when the rest of our batting was utterly dire outside of UAE. And he had Ajmal and Hafeez with their massive suspect actions to save us countless times in the UAE, defending 150 scores. The moment especially Ajmal's action got exposed our UAE form collapsed too.

Yousaf though was my favorite batsman to watch when he was on song. Style and power. Could hit sixes, run and boundaries. Noone in the team currently is close to him.

 

[mominsaigol]

I think everything Yousaf did is better than Misbah's career to be fair.

Misbah in my opinion was lucky he was the better batsman when the rest of our batting was utterly dire outside of UAE. And he had Ajmal and Hafeez with their massive suspect actions to save us countless times in the UAE, defending 150 scores. The moment especially Ajmal's action got exposed our UAE form collapsed too.

Yousaf though was my favorite batsman to watch when he was on song. Style and power. Could hit sixes, run and boundaries. Noone in the team currently is close to him.

Yousaf and Misbah in the same sentence? Brother they aren't comparable in any way.

In captaincy Misbah clearly wins in test and tbf he even wins in odi.

As a batsmen Yousaf mops the floor with Misbah, Yousaf is like 10 classes > Misbah as a batsmen.

 

[mominsaigol]

Inzi was a better batsman than Younis Khan and so was Zaheer Abass despite Younis Khan better stats in tests.

In tests? Lol no, YK is way better.

Zaheer Abass was a pakistani and England pitch bully. I remember me and @Hitman had this discussion when comparing sachin to zaheer and one of the metrics brought up was Zaheer's clown record in every other country except pakistan and England.

Zaheer is not as good as people claim him to be. He happened to be good in only 2 conditons and fortunately for him he also happened to play most of his games both tests and odi in those 2 conditions.

He was a train wreck everywhere else.

As for Inzi, Inzi is nowhere close to YK in tests. Inzi is only better at playing pure raw pace in tests hence he was a nightmare for the opposition when the new ball would eventually be taken..he wasn't that great on spin mambas and YK clearly bossed it in such conditons and when the old ball was in play.

In odi both are >>>>>>>>>>>>> YK no contest.

 

[khyberlion]

And Misbah played a major innings too and was let down by his team mates who did nothing.

If Pak bowlers had conceded 300 instead of 260 in the semis, would Pak have won?

In the final if the bowlers had failed to defend 249 in the final, would Pak have won?

If and buts. Once again proving you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[shah9425]

Yousuf 2006 was massive
He was legendary batsman

Although this is not misbah thread but I liked him as test player but white ball he bottled 2007 T20 final and India group stage match
In 2009 he contributed nothing and similar was the case in 2010 had a chance to redeem himself in 2011 CWC but again bottled and had worse campaign as Captain in 2013 CT and 2015 CWC
So misbah of 2007 T20 was great but after that he regressed in white ball

 

[Rana]

Yousuf 2006 was massive
He was legendary batsman

Although this is not misbah thread but I liked him as test player but white ball he bottled 2007 T20 final and India group stage match
In 2009 he contributed nothing and similar was the case in 2010 had a chance to redeem himself in 2011 CWC but again bottled and had worse campaign as Captain in 2013 CT and 2015 CWC
So misbah of 2007 T20 was great but after that he regressed in white ball

Wow bro amazing insights

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Probably the most technically accomplished of all Pakistani batsmen from that era and should have batted at #3 in ODI's.

But ultimately choked like pretty much every other cricketer from that side when push came to shove.

When did he choke? If you're talking about 2003 and 2007 then its unfair to single him out because those were pretty much collective team failures.

He played two match-winning knocks against India in two separate CT editions which is not something many Pak batters can say.

In test cricket, he has played plenty of great, clutch innings.

 

[Varun]

He was born in Lahore, but was he actually Sindhi?

 

[shah9425]

Wow bro amazing insights

Misbah was beast in 2007 but he couldn't get over the line and after that in white ball he could not win us apart from that 2012 Asia cup beating mighty Bangladesh by 2 runs

But yeah he was great player and captain of red ball and made UAE a fortress for us

 

[Hellion]

When did he choke? If you're talking about 2003 and 2007 then its unfair to single him out because those were pretty much collective team failures.

He played two match-winning knocks against India in two separate CT editions which is not something many Pak batters can say.

In test cricket, he has played plenty of great, clutch innings.

Which is why I said pretty much every other cricketer from that era in Pakistan cricket.

2003 and particularly 2007 were bad because he was at his peak.

 

[Markhor]

Some serious revisionism in this thread.

1) Yousuf was a good player of lateral movement:

Not true. I can think of three examples where he was exposed - 2003 World Cup (where a young Jimmy Anderson destroyed him), 2006 Karachi Test vs India, and 2007 World Cup vs Ireland.

He performed superbly in England in 2006 in a high scoring series on flat pitches, and in New Zealand but from our 2001, 2003 and 2009 tours there was perhaps one greentop but nothing like say what India faced in 2002/03 or we did in 2016.

The only time I saw Yousuf master swing was the 2010 Oval Test where he gave a tutorial in playing the ball late.

2) Pakistan's UAE Test form collapsed after Ajmal's bowling ban - How ? Pakistan's Test W/L in UAE was 3.00 during the Ajmal era. After his ban in 2014 and until Misbah's retirement, our W/L rose to 3.50.

Yasir Shah instantly filled Ajmal's boots. We started losing UAE Tests from 2017 once Yasir's form declined.

3) Inzamam was nowhere near Younis Khan as a Test batsman - Nobody who watched both careers would say that.

Younis has a better record vs Australia and South Africa, but only faced McGrath and Warne in two series (2002 and 2004). Despite Inzamam's struggles in South Africa, he was crucial in our last Test win there in 2007 in Port Elizabeth with a masterful 92* batting with the tail in the 1st inns before Younis's brilliant fifty in a tricky 4th inns chase.

It's 1-1 if you compare their records in England and New Zealand. However Inzamam outperformed Younis in West Indies (57 vs 22) with 6 of his 7 Tests against Ambrose and Walsh.

Inzamam poor on turning tracks ?! He averages higher away to Sri Lanka than Younis Khan (58 vs 44), facing peak Murali who Sangakkara said hated bowling to him.

Both Younis and Inzamam excelled in India with averages of 76 and 54. People remember Younis's 267 in Bengaluru in 2005 but forget Inzamam's 184 at the other end. His twin fifties in the 1st Test in Mohali helped us to draw whereas Younis failed. Younis himself said his career was almost over until his superb 147 in the next Test in Kolkata.

Now Younis was far fitter than Inzamam so could converted his fifties into bigger knocks more consistently. Overall though as batsmen there's little between them and both are on Pakistan's Mt Rushmore of batsmen.

 

[Markhor]

Some serious revisionism in this thread.

1) Yousuf was a good player of lateral movement:

- Not true. I can think of three examples where he was exposed - 2003 World Cup (where a young Jimmy Anderson destroyed him), 2006 Karachi Test vs India, and 2007 World Cup vs Ireland.

- He performed superbly in England in 2006 in a high scoring series on flat pitches, and in New Zealand but from our 2001, 2003 and 2009 tours there was perhaps one greentop but nothing like say what India faced in 2002/03 or we did in 2016.

- The only time I saw Yousuf master swing was the 2010 Oval Test where he gave a tutorial in playing the ball late.

2) Pakistan's UAE Test form collapsed after Ajmal's bowling ban - How ? Pakistan's Test W/L in UAE was 3.00 during the Ajmal era. After his ban in 2014 and until Misbah's retirement, our W/L rose to 3.50.

Yasir Shah instantly filled Ajmal's boots. We started losing UAE Tests from 2017 once Yasir's form declined.

3) Inzamam was nowhere near Younis Khan as a Test batsman - Nobody who watched both careers would say that.

Younis has a better record vs Australia and South Africa, but only faced McGrath and Warne in two series (2002 and 2004). Despite Inzamam's struggles in South Africa, he was crucial in our last Test win there in 2007 in Port Elizabeth with a masterful 92* batting with the tail in the 1st inns before Younis's brilliant fifty in a tricky 4th inns chase.

It's 1-1 if you compare their records in England and New Zealand. However Inzamam outperformed Younis in West Indies (57 vs 22) with 6 of his 7 Tests against Ambrose and Walsh.

Inzamam poor on turning tracks ?! He averages higher away to Sri Lanka than Younis Khan (58 vs 44), facing peak Murali who Sangakkara said hated bowling to him.

Both Younis and Inzamam excelled in India with averages of 76 and 54. People remember Younis's 267 in Bengaluru in 2005 but forget Inzamam's 184 at the other end. His twin fifties in the 1st Test in Mohali helped us to draw whereas Younis failed. Younis himself said his career was almost over until his superb 147 in the next Test in Kolkata.

Now Younis was far fitter than Inzamam so converted his fifties into bigger knocks more consistently. Overall there's little between them and both are on Pakistan's Mt Rushmore of batsmen.

 

[Greenstorm]

From time to time, I rewatch Yousuf's century in Melbourne where he spanked Warne. Pakistan has never produced such aesthetically pleasing batsman after him.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

 

[mominsaigol]

Some serious revisionism in this thread.

1) Yousuf was a good player of lateral movement:

- Not true. I can think of three examples where he was exposed - 2003 World Cup (where a young Jimmy Anderson destroyed him), 2006 Karachi Test vs India, and 2007 World Cup vs Ireland.

- He performed superbly in England in 2006 in a high scoring series on flat pitches, and in New Zealand but from our 2001, 2003 and 2009 tours there was perhaps one greentop but nothing like say what India faced in 2002/03 or we did in 2016.

- The only time I saw Yousuf master swing was the 2010 Oval Test where he gave a tutorial in playing the ball late.

2) Pakistan's UAE Test form collapsed after Ajmal's bowling ban - How ? Pakistan's Test W/L in UAE was 3.00 during the Ajmal era. After his ban in 2014 and until Misbah's retirement, our W/L rose to 3.50.

Yasir Shah instantly filled Ajmal's boots. We started losing UAE Tests from 2017 once Yasir's form declined.

3) Inzamam was nowhere near Younis Khan as a Test batsman - Nobody who watched both careers would say that.

Younis has a better record vs Australia and South Africa, but only faced McGrath and Warne in two series (2002 and 2004). Despite Inzamam's struggles in South Africa, he was crucial in our last Test win there in 2007 in Port Elizabeth with a masterful 92* batting with the tail in the 1st inns before Younis's brilliant fifty in a tricky 4th inns chase.

It's 1-1 if you compare their records in England and New Zealand. However Inzamam outperformed Younis in West Indies (57 vs 22) with 6 of his 7 Tests against Ambrose and Walsh.

Inzamam poor on turning tracks ?! He averages higher away to Sri Lanka than Younis Khan (58 vs 44), facing peak Murali who Sangakkara said hated bowling to him.

Both Younis and Inzamam excelled in India with averages of 76 and 54. People remember Younis's 267 in Bengaluru in 2005 but forget Inzamam's 184 at the other end. His twin fifties in the 1st Test in Mohali helped us to draw whereas Younis failed. Younis himself said his career was almost over until his superb 147 in the next Test in Kolkata.

Now Younis was far fitter than Inzamam so converted his fifties into bigger knocks more consistently. Overall there's little between them and both are on Pakistan's Mt Rushmore of batsmen.

About point 3

No one is insulting inzimam ul haq as a test cricketer. He's a fabulous test cricketer and he's > 99% of test cricketers to ever play the game.

He has a name unlike people like Hurraira, Imran butt, abid ali, and 90% of players from Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and even Australia, India and big countries.

Most players typically end up being random names of espencricinfo scorecards once time passes.

However that doesn't mean he's comparable to Younis Khan.

YK has a 50+ avg, 34 test centuries, 10K runs and has an amazing record in every country except for south africa where 99% of our batters have struggled. And also wi.

And while YK may have faced mcgrath only 2x, it doesn't change the fact that aussie conditons are difficult for any player. Australia has always been a top team in tests excluding their minor dark period around 2018.

And pakistan has not defeated them in their home den for ages now. Those pitches aren't easy and even though Australia may never reach their classic era status again, the team that YK faced was still top tier with top tier bowlers.

It's not his fault that Pakistan lost because David Warner decided to smack pakistan around black and blue.

The only main argument is that inzi faced tougher bowlers then YK, however YK has just dominated more in test cricket then Inzi has. Had Inzi played more on UAE, he wouldn't be as dominant as YK.

 

[mominsaigol]

Some serious revisionism in this thread.

1) Yousuf was a good player of lateral movement:

- Not true. I can think of three examples where he was exposed - 2003 World Cup (where a young Jimmy Anderson destroyed him), 2006 Karachi Test vs India, and 2007 World Cup vs Ireland.

- He performed superbly in England in 2006 in a high scoring series on flat pitches, and in New Zealand but from our 2001, 2003 and 2009 tours there was perhaps one greentop but nothing like say what India faced in 2002/03 or we did in 2016.

- The only time I saw Yousuf master swing was the 2010 Oval Test where he gave a tutorial in playing the ball late.

2) Pakistan's UAE Test form collapsed after Ajmal's bowling ban - How ? Pakistan's Test W/L in UAE was 3.00 during the Ajmal era. After his ban in 2014 and until Misbah's retirement, our W/L rose to 3.50.

Yasir Shah instantly filled Ajmal's boots. We started losing UAE Tests from 2017 once Yasir's form declined.

3) Inzamam was nowhere near Younis Khan as a Test batsman - Nobody who watched both careers would say that.

Younis has a better record vs Australia and South Africa, but only faced McGrath and Warne in two series (2002 and 2004). Despite Inzamam's struggles in South Africa, he was crucial in our last Test win there in 2007 in Port Elizabeth with a masterful 92* batting with the tail in the 1st inns before Younis's brilliant fifty in a tricky 4th inns chase.

It's 1-1 if you compare their records in England and New Zealand. However Inzamam outperformed Younis in West Indies (57 vs 22) with 6 of his 7 Tests against Ambrose and Walsh.

Inzamam poor on turning tracks ?! He averages higher away to Sri Lanka than Younis Khan (58 vs 44), facing peak Murali who Sangakkara said hated bowling to him.

Both Younis and Inzamam excelled in India with averages of 76 and 54. People remember Younis's 267 in Bengaluru in 2005 but forget Inzamam's 184 at the other end. His twin fifties in the 1st Test in Mohali helped us to draw whereas Younis failed. Younis himself said his career was almost over until his superb 147 in the next Test in Kolkata.

Now Younis was far fitter than Inzamam so converted his fifties into bigger knocks more consistently. Overall there's little between them and both are on Pakistan's Mt Rushmore of batsmen.

Now about point 1

You're highlighting world cups where Yousaf was shockingly poor. He and inzi despite being dominant in bi laterals and this was when bi laterals were taken very seriously just weren't dominant in world cups.

No one knows why but they brain faded during world cup season. World cups aren't a good way to analyse their entire career.

Yousaf has dominanted pace and swing way more times then he hasn't.

You're just nit picking certain series where he hasn't.

It's the equivalent of me saying Kohli is a crap player of pace because Junaid Khan exposed him in 2012.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Which is why I said pretty much every other cricketer from that era in Pakistan cricket.

2003 and particularly 2007 were bad because he was at his peak.

For me, the definition of choking is when the player is in a pressure situation that can win or lose the game, and they drop the ball (figuratively speaking). Example: Ajmal bowling the last over in the 2010 WT20 semi-final or Misbah's batting in the 2011 WC semi-final I don't feel Yousuf ever had that kind of a performance in either of those World Cups. He was disappointing and underperformed but there was a whole lot more wrong with Pakistan's performances in those tournaments.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Some serious revisionism in this thread.

1) Yousuf was a good player of lateral movement:

Not true. I can think of three examples where he was exposed - 2003 World Cup (where a young Jimmy Anderson destroyed him), 2006 Karachi Test vs India, and 2007 World Cup vs Ireland.

He performed superbly in England in 2006 in a high scoring series on flat pitches, and in New Zealand but from our 2001, 2003 and 2009 tours there was perhaps one greentop but nothing like say what India faced in 2002/03 or we did in 2016.

The only time I saw Yousuf master swing was the 2010 Oval Test where he gave a tutorial in playing the ball late.

2) Pakistan's UAE Test form collapsed after Ajmal's bowling ban - How ? Pakistan's Test W/L in UAE was 3.00 during the Ajmal era. After his ban in 2014 and until Misbah's retirement, our W/L rose to 3.50.

Yasir Shah instantly filled Ajmal's boots. We started losing UAE Tests from 2017 once Yasir's form declined.

3) Inzamam was nowhere near Younis Khan as a Test batsman - Nobody who watched both careers would say that.

Younis has a better record vs Australia and South Africa, but only faced McGrath and Warne in two series (2002 and 2004). Despite Inzamam's struggles in South Africa, he was crucial in our last Test win there in 2007 in Port Elizabeth with a masterful 92* batting with the tail in the 1st inns before Younis's brilliant fifty in a tricky 4th inns chase.

It's 1-1 if you compare their records in England and New Zealand. However Inzamam outperformed Younis in West Indies (57 vs 22) with 6 of his 7 Tests against Ambrose and Walsh.

Inzamam poor on turning tracks ?! He averages higher away to Sri Lanka than Younis Khan (58 vs 44), facing peak Murali who Sangakkara said hated bowling to him.

Both Younis and Inzamam excelled in India with averages of 76 and 54. People remember Younis's 267 in Bengaluru in 2005 but forget Inzamam's 184 at the other end. His twin fifties in the 1st Test in Mohali helped us to draw whereas Younis failed. Younis himself said his career was almost over until his superb 147 in the next Test in Kolkata.

Now Younis was far fitter than Inzamam so could converted his fifties into bigger knocks more consistently. Overall though as batsmen there's little between them and both are on Pakistan's Mt Rushmore of batsmen.

Yousuf may not have been a great player of lateral movement but I wouldn't say it was a weakness for him either. Against quality-bowling and high-level of lateral movement even the best can become undone. That's just a natural part of the game.

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Now about point 1

You're highlighting world cups where Yousaf was shockingly poor. He and inzi despite being dominant in bi laterals and this was when bi laterals were taken very seriously just weren't dominant in world cups.

No one knows why but they brain faded during world cup season. World cups aren't a good way to analyse their entire career.

Yousaf has dominanted pace and swing way more times then he hasn't.

You're just nit picking certain series where he hasn't.

It's the equivalent of me saying Kohli is a crap player of pace because Junaid Khan exposed him in 2012.

Inzamam played one of the ATG WC knocks against New Zealand that played a big part in us winning that World Cup. And that alone is enough to seal his name in Pakistan cricket history for me.

 

[mominsaigol]

Inzamam played one of the ATG WC knocks against New Zealand that played a big part in us winning that World Cup. And that is enough to seal his name in Pakistan cricket history.

Excluding 1992 semi's.

Inzi and Yousaf were poor throughout their wc campaign, and no one knows why.

However Inzi was a freak of nature in bi laterals and is pretty much the sole reason alongside Saeed Anwar as to why Pakistan is > india in head to head, however India will eventually surpass Pakistan in head to head encounters

 

[Markhor]

About point 3

No one is insulting inzimam ul haq as a test cricketer. He's a fabulous test cricketer and he's > 99% of test cricketers to ever play the game.

He has a name unlike people like Hurraira, Imran butt, abid ali, and 90% of players from Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and even Australia, India and big countries.

Most players typically end up being random names of espencricinfo scorecards once time passes.

However that doesn't mean he's comparable to Younis Khan.

YK has a 50+ avg, 34 test centuries, 10K runs and has an amazing record in every country except for south africa where 99% of our batters have struggled. And also wi.

And while YK may have faced mcgrath only 2x, it doesn't change the fact that aussie conditons are difficult for any player. Australia has always been a top team in tests excluding their minor dark period around 2018.

And pakistan has not defeated them in their home den for ages now. Those pitches aren't easy and even though Australia may never reach their classic era status again, the team that YK faced was still top tier with top tier bowlers.

It's not his fault that Pakistan lost because David Warner decided to smack pakistan around black and blue.

The only main argument is that inzi faced tougher bowlers then YK, however YK has just dominated more in test cricket then Inzi has. Had Inzi played more on UAE, he wouldn't be as dominant as YK.

Nobody's knocking Younis Khan. I defended him to the very end of his career in 2017 because I knew our clownish domestic system wouldn't produce a batsman capable of wiping his backside.

I'm focusing on your original claims that a) Inzamam wasn't good on turning pitches and b) he wasn't close to Younis as a Test batsman.

Again how does somebody not good on turning pitches average 58 in Sri Lanka with prime Murali, or 54 in India with prime Kumble ?

Even accepting Younis was better vs spin and Inzamam was better vs pace - there wasn't a mountain of difference between the two as Test batsmen like you're suggesting.

Younis averages 52 in Tests, Inzamam averages 50 if you remove that nonsense World XI Supertest. Their nation by nation away records almost cancel each other out. Asserting an opinion loudly doesn't make the numbers any less true.

What I will grant is that Younis had it harder in this DRS era, but that can be said for any comparison between batters of different eras.

 

[Major]

Nobody's knocking Younis Khan. I defended him to the very end of his career in 2017 because I knew our clownish domestic system wouldn't produce a batsman capable of wiping his backside.

I'm focusing on your original claims that a) Inzamam wasn't good on turning pitches and b) he wasn't close to Younis as a Test batsman.

Again how does somebody not good on turning pitches average 58 in Sri Lanka with prime Murali, or 54 in India with prime Kumble ?

Even accepting Younis was better vs spin and Inzamam was better vs pace - there wasn't a mountain of difference between the two as Test batsmen like you're suggesting.

Younis averages 52 in Tests, Inzamam averages 50 if you remove that nonsense World XI Supertest. Their nation by nation away records almost cancel each other out. Asserting an opinion loudly doesn't make the numbers any less true.

What I will grant is that Younis had it harder in this DRS era, but that can be said for any comparison between batters of different eras.

Where do you rate Miandad when comparing these 3? Does Miandad top the chart? And while you are at it, ur opinion on Hanif Muhammad aswell

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Nobody's knocking Younis Khan. I defended him to the very end of his career in 2017 because I knew our clownish domestic system wouldn't produce a batsman capable of wiping his backside.

I'm focusing on your original claims that a) Inzamam wasn't good on turning pitches and b) he wasn't close to Younis as a Test batsman.

Again how does somebody not good on turning pitches average 58 in Sri Lanka with prime Murali, or 54 in India with prime Kumble ?

Even accepting Younis was better vs spin and Inzamam was better vs pace - there wasn't a mountain of difference between the two as Test batsmen like you're suggesting.

Younis averages 52 in Tests, Inzamam averages 50 if you remove that nonsense World XI Supertest. Their nation by nation away records almost cancel each other out. Asserting an opinion loudly doesn't make the numbers any less true.

What I will grant is that Younis had it harder in this DRS era, but that can be said for any comparison between batters of different eras.

Watching Inzi walk down the wicket and casually play murali was a treat. The big man had the grace of a ballet dancer at times.

 

[BunnyRabbit]

Why Misbah? There is no comparison between Mohd Yousuf and Misbah.

Yousuf was one of the best Batsmen Pakistan ever produced. Moyo is in league with Younis Khan, Inzamam, Zaheer Abbas, Majid Khan, Hanif Mohammad and Miandad etc. Misbah never belonged in that category, technically Misbah had a rock solid defense which he used to stay at the wicket, but his stroke play wasn't of the top most quality. Misbah's resilience often saved Pakistan but he wasn't playing for stats (his stats are not that great anyways).

Moyo actually has the credentials to be among the top echelon of our batters (all formats Tests and ODIs). He is undoubtedly among the top 3 Pakistani batters of all time. The top tier of Pakistani batters ie Miandad, Inzi and Yousaf in no particular order. Majid and Zaheer may have been good but these three were far better overall.

 

[Markhor]

@mominsaigol

On Yousuf and pace/swing: In the early to mid 2000s our strongest opponents were Australia, South Africa, India, Sri Lanka and England. All had either at least one quality quick or swing bowler.

Until that 2004 tour of Australia, Yousuf averaged 31.33 against them. I vividly remember the reputation not only as an FTB but scorer of soft runs who needed Inzy to hold his hand.

Whether you agree or not, that was the perception I remember amongst Pakistan fans. I wasn't on here but I bought every monthly edition of The Cricketer magazine (now defunct) and religiously followed Cricinfo (before they stopped bothering to seriously cover non Big 3 nations).

Before the MCG hundred was the Perth Test where Pakistan were shocking (McGrath took 8-24 and we lost by 491 runs) and I remember an article from a fuming Osman Samiuddin who wrote of Yousuf:

Shameful and cruel exposure

There is no need to mince words - Pakistan's batting was shameful

www.espncricinfo.com

What would he have said to Yousuf Youhana, playing in his 54th Test? That opening the face of your bat is not ideal in any environment, let alone at Perth? Or that his continuing failure to handle responsibility commensurate to his seniority, or his average, suggests that the phrase used most often to describe him - lazy elegance - is one word too long?

Obviously after the MCG hundred he never looked back and produced some of the greatest knocks ever by a Pakistani batsman.

 

[mazkhan]

Again, this my repeated question for everyone that post bs here.

Have you lived in Pakistan?

Go to Lahore only. Servis industry funds a whole sports department over there. In Pindi KRL and ARL have heavily invested.

Investment in cricket is not just fielding an 11 and giving salaries. There are grounds, its maintenance and clubs that these department.

Ghani Glass has made one of the biggest cricket clubs in Pakistan and has made its own ground and is running a Ghani Institute of cricket. SNGPL has not only been running a cricket team but also been giving secure jobs to its cricketers. Servis industry is well known in Lahore. The whole Quetta Gladiators is funded by Omar Associates which itself fields 2nd 11 department teams.

Your only gold winning Olympic medalist in track and field came from non other than a department.

Go read football players interviews and how they got affected when departments were shut.

Your favorite Imran Khan was the reason why depts started to shut down. Because he had his own stupid ideas that he tried to enforce in Pakistan and it did more damage in the cricket circle of Pakistan. Once the department ban was in place, alot of departments shut their shop. Wapda and SNGPL were able to sustain the losses and knew once this lunatic is out they can bring back department cricket.

Department cricket was soo much on the rise that somewhere in 2012 departments were even running their own u19 teams aswell.

Just because your favourite politician said departments are bad, doesnt make them bad. Analyze yourself.

Brilliant post

 

[RedwoodOriginal]

Where do you rate Miandad when comparing these 3? Does Miandad top the chart? And while you are at it, ur opinion on Hanif Muhammad aswell

You didn't ask me this question, but I feel like answering anyway:

Hanif, Miandad, Inzi, Younis - The Mount Rushmore of Pak batting.

 

[Local.Dada]

Is there something I am missing here? Most subcontinent cricketers come from humble backgrounds. Apart from that is there something more to this?

 

[ElRaja]

heres my brief two cents worth on the batsmen comparison of those i saw lots of

inzi - amazing natural talent, brilliant hands and feet, had power to boot which added the x factor to his game. didnt care about his fitness which meant he pbly left a few runs on the ground everytime he batted. his biggest issue was the need to feel ball on bat, used to go fishing a lot early on in his innings. was also a very good slipper which is an underrated bonus for a team like Pakistan. his laid back captaincy style kinda worked.

moyo - already said my bit, gorgeous batsmen, mentally the weakest, rubbish fielder

younis - not the most talented, but mentally the strongest. dude had an entire career of being ostracised for being his own man, if your not Pakistani you dont realise how difficult it is to ruffle everyone's feathers by avoiding "cliques" and "groups" and then accepting the political consequences. developed his own game, his own way, and became the best player of spin pak has ever had. the way he scored a double hundred at the oval after failing all series, no other pak batsman could have done that.

misbah - absolute grind merchant with a penchant for slogging in the most calculating and least flamboyant way ever, even his sixes were boring, lol. was too old to ever have the eyes to play pace and bounce so decided the most misbah approach to counter it, just wear the blows on his body. with yk actually ushered in an era where players gave a second thought to fitness. dudes career ran from 33 to 43, and today even guys in their 20s cant match their fitness.

 

[kingusama92]

Out of the star batting trio, Yousuf was the most elegant to watch.

There's no denying it.

Yousuf at his peak displayed some of the classiest batting you will ever see. Yet, he underperformed relative to his talent and ability, which is an unfortunate theme for a lot of Pakistani players.

 

[TheSultan]

I heard Yousuf speak on this a few years ago on some TV show

Yousuf was originally from Lahore and a very good/talented batter but he didn’t have the sifarish or links to break into the Lahore main team. They were not even looking at him.

He was recommended to go to Bahawalpur and try his luck with them. They gave him his big break and that’s when he started to rack up the runs

Something along these lines, it was Bahawalpur who let Yousuf into the FC scene, otherwise he was all set to just carry on working at some shop as a darzi or something.

This is why I feel that the many regions+departments thing isn’t the worst when it comes to Pakistan domestic cricket. A lot of these underprivileged players with no sifarish or backing might just get their chance in one of the lesser teams and break down the door for themselves.

Yes I remember a very detailed account of this somewhere, I’m pretty sure I read it here on pp a few years ago.

 

[topspin]

Some serious revisionism in this thread.

1) Yousuf was a good player of lateral movement:

- Not true. I can think of three examples where he was exposed - 2003 World Cup (where a young Jimmy Anderson destroyed him), 2006 Karachi Test vs India, and 2007 World Cup vs Ireland.

- He performed superbly in England in 2006 in a high scoring series on flat pitches, and in New Zealand but from our 2001, 2003 and 2009 tours there was perhaps one greentop but nothing like say what India faced in 2002/03 or we did in 2016.

- The only time I saw Yousuf master swing was the 2010 Oval Test where he gave a tutorial in playing the ball late.

You are a top poster but I have to respectfully disagree with you here.

We cannot cherry pick a few innings like this. It's like me saying Inzamam struggled against pace because he averaged 30 in Australia and South Africa with just one hundred.

Do you remember this match:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...e-vs-worcestershire-492108/match-report-day-4







Mohammad Yousuf made Bell and Trott, who themselves were fine players of swing/seam bowling, look average in very difficult batting conditions.

 

[Markhor]

You are a top poster but I have to respectfully disagree with you here.

We cannot cherry pick a few innings like this. It's like me saying Inzamam struggled against pace because he averaged 30 in Australia and South Africa with just one hundred.

Do you remember this match:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...e-vs-worcestershire-492108/match-report-day-4

View attachment 152465

View attachment 152466

View attachment 152467

Mohammad Yousuf made Bell and Trott, who themselves were fine players of swing/seam bowling, look average in very difficult batting conditions.

In 2010/11 he mastered swing bowling so there's no disagreement there. However it was a different story for most of his career.

a) From his debut in Feb 1998 until that 2004 Boxing Day Test, Yousuf averaged 30.70 against Australia, South Africa, England, India and Sri Lanka, all of whom possessed one quality swing bowler, and were our hardest opponents in that era. In contrast Inzamam averaged 46.05 against them in that timeframe hence why many Pakistan fans at the time accused Yousuf of hiding behind Inzamam and going missing against the top teams.

b) Against pace bowling overall in that time he averaged 33.87 (opposed to 45.66 against spin). Like @ElRaja stated one of the reasons was lazy footwork by not getting properly onto the front foot. India exposed this time and again in 2004 - their pacers accounted for 8 of Yousuf's 10 dismissals across the Tests and ODIs ! Pakistan and India fans used to joke that Yousuf was Irfan Pathan's bunny.

However post-MCG ton he was magnificent. Against the Big 5 he averaged 53.09 and his overall pace average rose to 49.00. Had he played like that his entire career he'd be the greatest Pakistani batsman without argument. But he didn't hence why it's important to balance nostalgia with what fans at the time saw and what the numbers show. He wouldn't make my Mt Rushmore of Pakistani batsmen (occupied by Miandad, Inzamam, Younis and Saeed) but he's the next man on. Just my opinion, people can disagree.

 

[topspin]

In 2010/11 he mastered swing bowling so there's no disagreement there. However it was a different story for most of his career.

a) From his debut in Feb 1998 until that 2004 Boxing Day Test, Yousuf averaged 30.70 against Australia, South Africa, England, India and Sri Lanka, all of whom possessed one quality swing bowler, and were our hardest opponents in that era. In contrast Inzamam averaged 46.05 against them in that timeframe hence why many Pakistan fans at the time accused Yousuf of hiding behind Inzamam and going missing against the top teams.

b) Against pace bowling overall in that time he averaged 33.87 (opposed to 45.66 against spin). Like @ElRaja stated one of the reasons was lazy footwork by not getting properly onto the front foot. India exposed this time and again in 2004 - their pacers accounted for 8 of Yousuf's 10 dismissals across the Tests and ODIs ! Pakistan and India fans used to joke that Yousuf was Irfan Pathan's bunny.

However post-MCG ton he was magnificent. Against the Big 5 he averaged 53.09 and his overall pace average rose to 49.00. Had he played like that his entire career he'd be the greatest Pakistani batsman without argument. But he didn't hence why it's important to balance nostalgia with what fans at the time saw and what the numbers show. He wouldn't make my Mt Rushmore of Pakistani batsmen (occupied by Miandad, Inzamam, Younis and Saeed) but he's the next man on. Just my opinion, people can disagree.

The way I see it, Mohammad Yousuf (like Inzamam) was just a nervous starter. But I agree not at the level of Miandad, Inzamam, Younis and Saeed Anwar.

Who do you think was the best Pakistani batsman against swing/seam bowling?

 

[topspin]

Some serious revisionism in this thread.

1) Yousuf was a good player of lateral movement:

- Not true. I can think of three examples where he was exposed - 2003 World Cup (where a young Jimmy Anderson destroyed him), 2006 Karachi Test vs India, and 2007 World Cup vs Ireland.

- He performed superbly in England in 2006 in a high scoring series on flat pitches, and in New Zealand but from our 2001, 2003 and 2009 tours there was perhaps one greentop but nothing like say what India faced in 2002/03 or we did in 2016.

- The only time I saw Yousuf master swing was the 2010 Oval Test where he gave a tutorial in playing the ball late.

2) Pakistan's UAE Test form collapsed after Ajmal's bowling ban - How ? Pakistan's Test W/L in UAE was 3.00 during the Ajmal era. After his ban in 2014 and until Misbah's retirement, our W/L rose to 3.50.

Yasir Shah instantly filled Ajmal's boots. We started losing UAE Tests from 2017 once Yasir's form declined.

3) Inzamam was nowhere near Younis Khan as a Test batsman - Nobody who watched both careers would say that.

Younis has a better record vs Australia and South Africa, but only faced McGrath and Warne in two series (2002 and 2004). Despite Inzamam's struggles in South Africa, he was crucial in our last Test win there in 2007 in Port Elizabeth with a masterful 92* batting with the tail in the 1st inns before Younis's brilliant fifty in a tricky 4th inns chase.

It's 1-1 if you compare their records in England and New Zealand. However Inzamam outperformed Younis in West Indies (57 vs 22) with 6 of his 7 Tests against Ambrose and Walsh.

Inzamam poor on turning tracks ?! He averages higher away to Sri Lanka than Younis Khan (58 vs 44), facing peak Murali who Sangakkara said hated bowling to him.

Both Younis and Inzamam excelled in India with averages of 76 and 54. People remember Younis's 267 in Bengaluru in 2005 but forget Inzamam's 184 at the other end. His twin fifties in the 1st Test in Mohali helped us to draw whereas Younis failed. Younis himself said his career was almost over until his superb 147 in the next Test in Kolkata.

Now Younis was far fitter than Inzamam so converted his fifties into bigger knocks more consistently. Overall there's little between them and both are on Pakistan's Mt Rushmore of batsmen.

Another one to add:

Yousuf is no where near Misbah