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What's happened to the Pakistan T20I team?

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Saj

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Once top of the rankings, beating all-comers and looking a very good outfit.

But in the last 2 years they've only won 7 out of their last 19 T20Is with 3 of those wins being against Zimbabwe and 2 versus Bangladesh.

So, what's the issue(s)? What's gone wrong?
 
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Misbah and Waqar philosophy happened.

The most out of touch with the world coaches are running the show now. Abhi humne aur zaleel hona hai
 
The original run to the top of the rankings was heavily padded by wins against mediocre sides, as well media attention massively overhyping the relevance of such an achievement when most teams rest their stars in t20.

The point the momentum shifted away from Pakistan was likely when Misbah made his 1200 iq selections of Umar Akmal, Shehzad and Irfan.
 
They are not playing more matches with zimbabwe.
if you need some easy money become a coach of Pakistani team.
Talent is dried up.
That's the reality.
 
There is an over reliance on Babar and Hafeez in the batting. I also think apart from Shaheen and Wahab, we are relying on unproven fast bowlers. And the most important thing is the teams we are losing to are better. We lost to England and New Zealand and they didn't have their full strength team.
 
If you take the starting line up, the players are just not good enough.

Haider Ali and Abdullah Shafique are young and new to international cricket so not fair to criticize them.
But Rizwan is a pathetic T20 cricketer, I am not sure he should be playing even domestic T20 cricket.
Hafeez is an average T20 batsman at best, in my book he is below average.
Khushdil, well, he doesn't look international quality, let's see.

Shadab, Imad and Faheem have done well for number 6-8.

Our batting is way to weak. One of the hope is for Abdullah Shafique and Haider Ali to develop in very good players.
 
Sarfaraz lost form, Fakhar lost form, Hafeez lost form (before his resurgence in 2020), Amir lost form, Shadab lost bowling form, Wahab doesn’t really do form, Asif Ali lost form, Shaheen got ill, and Hassan Ali got injured. We stopped playing in the UAE where the onus was on the bowling unit due to low scores, and started playing more often in SENA where we need high scores of 180-190 on a regular basis.

Adding fuel to the fire, we threw Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad, Mohammad Irfan, Mohammad Rizwan, Musa Khan, Ahsan Ali, and a good but undercooked Abdullah Shafique in to fan the flames.
 
Pakistan lost 3-0 to Sri Lanka reserves, when Misbah typically brought Umar Akmal and Shahzad back into a settled T20 team. That no.1 Pakistan side beat a stronger New Zealand T20 team 2-1 in NZ back in 2018. And now look, What Misbah has done to us.
 
As [MENTION=134608]Hawkeye[/MENTION] would tell ya, the dark era of Mickey Arthur came to an end and the steady influence of Misbah took over.
 
Azam Khan big show is striking at 186 in LPL but he can’t get into the side because Rizwan has waited for his chance and it is not the time to give him the long rope to expose Sarfaraz the failure....
 
We’re always rebuilding.

Playing Abdullah Shafiq and Mohammad Rizwan at the top has to be our worst opening pair ever.

Imagine if it was Sharjeel Khan and Fakhar Zaman at the top. We’d have made 50-60 in the PP overs.

We have players in this team who may be good on flat pitches but on pitches like nz they’re crap. We have one player who plays well on all pitches and bats in the middle overs, he’s currently sitting at home eating grapes.

We have Misbah ul Haq leading this team full of youngsters, the same guy that would never try youngsters out when he was captain.

We have Waqar Younis who can’t speak to the media without creating controversy, the current lot of players would’ve listened to what he said about Amir and they’d be thinking what if he said that about us.

These 2 don’t know how to look after players, when the heat is on them they both put the blame on the players.
 
Truth be told you guys were never good to begin with. The number 1 was a total hoax. Pakistan played weakened Under strength teams and feasted on those victories.

The moment Pakistan had to play full strength t20 sides they starting getting wrecked everywhere.

Now even weakened teams are beating them. It's a shame.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
Sarfaraz lost form, Fakhar lost form, Hafeez lost form (before his resurgence in 2020), Amir lost form, Shadab lost bowling form, Wahab doesn’t really do form, Asif Ali lost form, Shaheen got ill, and Hassan Ali got injured. We stopped playing in the UAE where the onus was on the bowling unit due to low scores, and started playing more often in SENA where we need high scores of 180-190 on a regular basis.

Adding fuel to the fire, we threw Umar Akmal, Ahmed Shehzad, Mohammad Irfan, Mohammad Rizwan, Musa Khan, Ahsan Ali, and a good but undercooked Abdullah Shafique in to fan the flames.
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You make a very important point. Sarfaraz, Fakhar, Asif Ali, Hassan Ali rather than improving with experience, they all regressed badly. To an extent where none of them could even make the first team. That tells you a lot about how things roll in Pakistan cricket.
 
Pakistan’s so-called great run in T20I cricket from 2016-2018 and the number 1 ranking were misleading at best.

It is a myth that Pakistan was the best T20I side during that time. Not even close. In fact, Pakistan have never had a top quality T20I outfit since the days of peak Gul, Ajmal and Afridi bowling in tandem.

The major reason why Pakistan looked good in the format during that period is because it never got to play India who would have beaten us to a pulp.

Moreover, we didn’t play England throughout 2017 and 2018 who would have comfortably beaten us over a series as well.

Pakistan became fake number 1 by beating underperformed, disinterested sides like Australia and New Zealand and getting around a dozen matches against West Indies who were struggling on slow pitches.

If there was a WT20 in 2017 or 2018, Pakistan wouldn’t have come close to winning it and the bubble would have burst.

15 T20Is against full-strength India, England and Australia in 2017 and 2018 and Pakistan would have lost at least 11-12.
 
Great now everyone wants to remove Abdullah Shafique after 11 innings. We deserve to lose no doubt. There's no patience among fans. It's a shame really.
 
What happened was that other teams adapted to T20I cricket, and we didn't.

We lived under the impression that we were world class, and that we could beat teams without making changes.

Then, we hit a truck load of injuries and a few players were replaced and the whole team balance was changed.

We never found replacements for Malik and Hafeez during that period that we were NO.1, and it cost us.

Fakhar Zaman went out of form, and we just have no answer as to how to move forward. PSL 6 is going to be the final determinant for some of the people on the team.
 
Rana said:
Azam Khan big show is striking at 186 in LPL but he can’t get into the side because Rizwan has waited for his chance and it is not the time to give him the long rope to expose Sarfaraz the failure....
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Yeh Azam Khan is our saviour right. Have you seen his first class record?
 
50% of own doing,
However 50% of black magic cannot be ruled out because there is no dearth of talent in the team as displayed bg Faheem, Shadab and Imad in their counter attack today.
 
T20 rankings are never to be taken seriously. Only look at performances in T20 world cups. Clearly, we were a world class side until 2014 but then our performances dropped. International teams don't take bilateral T20Is seriously and try out new players, but we always field Babar, Shaheen, Hafeez as if it's a world cup final every game.
 
gazza619 said:
Yeh Azam Khan is our saviour right. Have you seen his first class record?
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I’m not saying he is our saviour but it is illogical to keep him out of this format when he as a keeper batsman is far more suited to T20 than Mohammad Rizwan, who can’t even break into his franchise as a keeper batsman. Is there anyone else you would prefer? I would happily give me views on them also, but I cannot understand the fascination for Rizwan in T20s
 
Mamoon said:
Pakistan’s so-called great run in T20I cricket from 2016-2018 and the number 1 ranking were misleading at best.

It is a myth that Pakistan was the best T20I side during that time. Not even close. In fact, Pakistan have never had a top quality T20I outfit since the days of peak Gul, Ajmal and Afridi bowling in tandem.

The major reason why Pakistan looked good in the format during that period is because it never got to play India who would have beaten us to a pulp.

Moreover, we didn’t play England throughout 2017 and 2018 who would have comfortably beaten us over a series as well.

Pakistan became fake number 1 by beating underperformed, disinterested sides like Australia and New Zealand and getting around a dozen matches against West Indies who were struggling on slow pitches.

If there was a WT20 in 2017 or 2018, Pakistan wouldn’t have come close to winning it and the bubble would have burst.

15 T20Is against full-strength India, England and Australia in 2017 and 2018 and Pakistan would have lost at least 11-12.
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Lol, In 2018, We played a pretty much full strength Australia in 6 T20I's, we won 5 of them including 2 in Zimbabwe.
 
szrana007 said:
[/B]
Lol, In 2018, We played a pretty much full strength Australia in 6 T20I's, we won 5 of them including 2 in Zimbabwe.
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Pretty much full-strength is not the same as full-strength. 1-2 key players make a big difference in cricket.

Pakistani fans as usual are in deep denial and are making wrong diagnosis. I am not surprised at all.
 
Reality check.

We have been lucky to be mostly playing against BD, SL, Zim or WI since 2017.

In a series against the top four we have only won one game at the most. So yea this was bound to happen.

Pak lack the fire power in the batting and don't have quality spinners like they used to pre 2016. Those are the two main factors. Hadn't it been for Hafeez/Malik we would have lost a few T20's against the minnows as well.

I am actually surprised that people are surprised by these results. You can blame Misbah and he is a poor coach, but this is a structural problem which is evident since 2016. Ever since Gul, Afridi, Ajmal retired we have never been the same consistent force in the format.
 
tyron_woodley said:
Truth be told you guys were never good to begin with. The number 1 was a total hoax. Pakistan played weakened Under strength teams and feasted on those victories.

The moment Pakistan had to play full strength t20 sides they starting getting wrecked everywhere.

Now even weakened teams are beating them. It's a shame.
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This is absolute ** peddled by the likes of you. We beat NZland, Australia (thrashed them actually) and didnt just pad victories against minnow teams. What happened to this cricket team is the axis of incompetence struck it in the form of Misbah/Waqar/Azhar. Although, they have shown signs of improvement by putting in youngsters but damage is quite sizable.
 
tyron_woodley said:
Truth be told you guys were never good to begin with. The number 1 was a total hoax. Pakistan played weakened Under strength teams and feasted on those victories.

The moment Pakistan had to play full strength t20 sides they starting getting wrecked everywhere.

Now even weakened teams are beating them. It's a shame.
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True, bar Babar not a single player who can be considered world class. Shaheen is just decent that's about it. The state is so bad that Afridi can just walk into their lineup purely on merit. Hafeez who is like half a century old is still a major part of the team!! I am surprised that by and large Pak fans aren't horrified by this team.
 
Mamoon said:
Pakistan’s so-called great run in T20I cricket from 2016-2018 and the number 1 ranking were misleading at best.

It is a myth that Pakistan was the best T20I side during that time. Not even close. In fact, Pakistan have never had a top quality T20I outfit since the days of peak Gul, Ajmal and Afridi bowling in tandem.

The major reason why Pakistan looked good in the format during that period is because it never got to play India who would have beaten us to a pulp.

Moreover, we didn’t play England throughout 2017 and 2018 who would have comfortably beaten us over a series as well.

Pakistan became fake number 1 by beating underperformed, disinterested sides like Australia and New Zealand and getting around a dozen matches against West Indies who were struggling on slow pitches.

If there was a WT20 in 2017 or 2018, Pakistan wouldn’t have come close to winning it and the bubble would have burst.

15 T20Is against full-strength India, England and Australia in 2017 and 2018 and Pakistan would have lost at least 11-12.
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Underperformed, disinterested? What? How can one playing for the national team deliberately under perform and be disinterested? Or was it some grand conspiracy by Australia, New Zealand etc. to make Pakistani fans feel good by losing against their team? Not just losing but getting thrashed. Pray, help me understand your logic while you put your tinfoil armour on.
 
Slim said:
Underperformed, disinterested? What? How can one playing for the national team deliberately under perform and be disinterested? Or was it some grand conspiracy by Australia, New Zealand etc. to make Pakistani fans feel good by losing against their team? Not just losing but getting thrashed. Pray, help me understand your logic while you put your tinfoil armour on.
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If there was a T20I series between Pakistan and India during the 2017-2018 period, it would have been a carbon copy of the Asia Cup 2018.

Had the Asia Cup never happened, you and others would have never believed that a Kohli-less India would come to UAE and absolutely thrash a full-strength Pakistan team twice.
 
Slim said:
So were teams deliberately losing matches before? This logic is absolutely hilarious.
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Things aren't that 'black and white'.

Ofcourse they didn't lose deliberately. But its a fact that most top teams don't play their full strength team in bilateral T20Is as their priorities lie elsewhere (keeping their best players fresh for Tests and to some extent even ODIs). And it's also pretty apparent that Pakistan take bilateral T20s more seriously than any other team looking at the team they put forward even against the likes of Zimbabwe at home.

But still, they had to win games and they did so quite regularly. So , credit where due they were quite a decent team with a lot of in-form players but no way were they the "no.1 side" or even top3.
 
Mamoon said:
If there was a T20I series between Pakistan and India during the 2017-2018 period, it would have been a carbon copy of the Asia Cup 2018.

Had the Asia Cup never happened, you and others would have never believed that a Kohli-less India would come to UAE and absolutely thrash a full-strength Pakistan team twice.
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So, its Pakistan's fault that they didnt play India? Didnt we play Australia, the reigning world champions etc.?

Your opinion is purely based on conjecture, and is rubbish. You are posting like some alt-right conspiracy theorist.
 
Slim said:
This is absolute ** peddled by the likes of you. We beat NZland, Australia (thrashed them actually) and didnt just pad victories against minnow teams. What happened to this cricket team is the axis of incompetence struck it in the form of Misbah/Waqar/Azhar. Although, they have shown signs of improvement by putting in youngsters but damage is quite sizable.
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my dear boy, just listen if you have the patience.
you dint play india for starters. india is the best t20 team. yes india dont even take it seriously but somehow they have secretly won 9 out of the past 10 bilateral series.

well between india and england anyway. india also beat england in england.

anyway now thats out of the way.

go rewatch all the bilateral series or check the scoreboard. Come back and tell me which team you beat at full strength. No one truth be told.

The number 1 was an absolute hoax. Anyway pakistan is a much better odi side. t20 is not suited for current pakistan tbh. Hopefully you guys bounce back vs n.z in tests. lets see.
 
Mesozoic said:
Things aren't that 'black and white'.

Ofcourse they didn't lose deliberately. But its a fact that most top teams don't play their full strength team in bilateral T20Is as their priorities lie elsewhere (keeping their best players fresh for Tests and to some extent even ODIs). And it's also pretty apparent that Pakistan take bilateral T20s more seriously than any other team looking at the team they put forward even against the likes of Zimbabwe at home.

But still, they had to win games and they did so quite regularly. So , credit where due they were quite a decent team with a lot of in-form players but no way were they the "no.1 side" or even top3.
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Pakistan won 11 T20I series in a row and the beat the likes of England, Australia (twice), New Zealand (twice), West Indies (thrice). So, they were clearly the no.1 side in the world.
 
Mesozoic said:
Teams started taking T20Is more seriously with 2 world cups lined up.
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this is it. Also people say india dint beat some teams at full strength in t20. but the thing is india werent full strength either rofl. england wont even beat india at full strength in t20

our worst format is odi and we are still a top 2 side in odi.

t20 and tests are our best formats.
 
szrana007 said:
Pakistan won 11 T20I series in a row and the beat the likes of England, Australia (twice), New Zealand (twice), West Indies (thrice). So, they were clearly the no.1 side in the world.
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did you win away in england?
did you win away in australia?
n.z?

what players did you come up against. Might want to check that.
 
Slim said:
So, its Pakistan's fault that they didnt play India? Didnt we play Australia, the reigning world champions etc.?

Your opinion is purely based on conjecture, and is rubbish. You are posting like some alt-right conspiracy theorist.
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We didn’t play full-strength Australia and it wasn’t our fault that we didn’t play India, but it is important to keep that into consideration when hyping the 2017-2018 Pakistan side as the greatest T20I team in the world.

If someone says that the 2017-18 Pakistan team was better than the current Pakistan team, I would agree.

That Pakistan side did do very well to beat underpowered Australia etc. because it is not an easy thing to achieve for small teams like Pakistan anyway.

However, to state that the 2017-2018 Pakistan side was the best T20I in the world would be a ridiculous assertion because it wasn’t remotely true.
 
Forward Defensive Push said:
Great now everyone wants to remove Abdullah Shafique after 11 innings. We deserve to lose no doubt. There's no patience among fans. It's a shame really.
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Where was the patience of these morons when Pakistan tharshed by srilanaka in there on backyard by both in test and t20 under two great coaches
 
szrana007 said:
Pakistan won 11 T20I series in a row and the beat the likes of England, Australia (twice), New Zealand (twice), West Indies (thrice). So, they were clearly the no.1 side in the world.
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My bad. I meant the non-literal meaning of "no.1" i.e the "best team".

Agree that Pakistan were indeed the no.1 team in terms of bilateral T20 performances.
 
tyron_woodley said:
did you win away in england?
did you win away in australia?
n.z?

what players did you come up against. Might want to check that.
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My friend, do your research. We did actually win away in England and New Zealand. Maybe this debate can become more constructive if you outline the actual flaws and differences in Pakistan’s team combination rather than poke holes in the number 1 record. Otherwise you end up being a troll and I know you’re smarter and more honest than that
 
szrana007 said:
Yes won 2-1 in NZ in 2018, beat England in England in 2016.
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bro you played 1 game vs england in england in t20 looool. but yes it was a full strength team.

i guess pakistan dint quite beat full strength n.z though since sent rance and some other fodders were playing.

Lastly tye, stanlake, head lyon played for aussies in t20 when you guys won.

full credit for beating them but i feel the ranking was definitely a hoax overall.

i dont see you guys beating them away. the top teams i mean. in u.a.e sure, you guys can beat them except full strength india and full strength australia imo.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
My friend, do your research. We did actually win away in England and New Zealand. Maybe this debate can become more constructive if you outline the actual flaws and differences in Pakistan’s team combination rather than poke holes in the number 1 record. Otherwise you end up being a troll and I know you’re smarter and more honest than that
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i give full credit for the england win. No doubt that was a great win but it was one t20 game no?

anyway pakistan's issue is bounce. Australia is a bad matchup for them imo. So is india given india have good hit the deck bowlers. They will counter england and n.z anyday because those teams play to pakistan's strengths.

I am not sure if pakistan beats australia at home if they are at full strength. do you believe so?
i believe they can beat england and n.z at home. with archer now in the team, i think pakistan is in trouble away. I believe england will win at their home now.
n.z at full strength at home might beat pakistan. i have to see the lineup to make predictions.
 
Pakistan had pretty good combination in T20 going on for couple of years, including the bench strength. Pak was regularly scoring 180+ during that time (Has record of 4 consecutive 180+ scores if I am not wrong). Now its not there due to one reason or another. Part and parcel of sports.

Fakhar and Amir lost form while Hasan Ali struggled with injury after dip in form. Same thing happened to Rumman Raees who got injured after decent start to his T20 career.

Pak is really lacking utilization of first 6 overs in the batting and that makes a huge difference if you want to achieve total around 180.
 
Titan24 said:
Pakistan had pretty good combination in T20 going on for couple of years, including the bench strength. Pak was regularly scoring 180+ during that time (Has record of 4 consecutive 180+ scores if I am not wrong). Now its not there due to one reason or another. Part and parcel of sports.

Fakhar and Amir lost form while Hasan Ali struggled with injury after dip in form. Same thing happened to Rumman Raees who got injured after decent start to his T20 career.

Pak is really lacking utilization of first 6 overs in the batting and that makes a huge difference if you want to achieve total around 180.
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yea actually this may be right.

hasan getting figured out and fakhar just hacking instead of using his technique. Makes sense now.
explains the asia cup disaster.
 
tyron_woodley said:
i give full credit for the england win. No doubt that was a great win but it was one t20 game no?

anyway pakistan's issue is bounce. Australia is a bad matchup for them imo. So is india given india have good hit the deck bowlers. They will counter england and n.z anyday because those teams play to pakistan's strengths.

I am not sure if pakistan beats australia at home if they are at full strength. do you believe so?
i believe they can beat england and n.z at home. with archer now in the team, i think pakistan is in trouble away. I believe england will win at their home now.
n.z at full strength at home might beat pakistan. i have to see the lineup to make predictions.
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Pakistan’s main issue is with lack of form. There are currently like 6 debutants (who debuted in the last 1 year) in the 11 person team. Just go look at it.

The talent in these guys is there to go toe to toe in the World T20, but we will crash out during the group stages — I called this as far back as 6 months ago. The team isn’t settled, and taking 4-6 debutants in your playing XI to an ICC event is a recipe for disaster.

My real focus is on developing a good combination and set of players that we can back year on year until the 2023 world cup, rather than continue to chop and change as need be.

But in no way should our rebuilding phase lower the value of the absolute unreal domination phase by Pakistan during the years 2016-2018 in T20 cricket. The only team we didn’t play against was India, otherwise we smashed pretty much every other team like no tomorrow.
 
Titan24 said:
Pakistan had pretty good combination in T20 going on for couple of years, including the bench strength. Pak was regularly scoring 180+ during that time (Has record of 4 consecutive 180+ scores if I am not wrong). Now its not there due to one reason or another. Part and parcel of sports.

Fakhar and Amir lost form while Hasan Ali struggled with injury after dip in form. Same thing happened to Rumman Raees who got injured after decent start to his T20 career.

Pak is really lacking utilization of first 6 overs in the batting and that makes a huge difference if you want to achieve total around 180.
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Don’t forget Sarfaraz losing form, we effectively play with just 10 players with Rizwan in the team.
 
Thunderbolt14 said:
Pakistan’s main issue is with lack of form. There are currently like 6 debutants (who debuted in the last 1 year) in the 11 person team. Just go look at it.

The talent in these guys is there to go toe to toe in the World T20, but we will crash out during the group stages — I called this as far back as 6 months ago. The team isn’t settled, and taking 4-6 debutants in your playing XI to an ICC event is a recipe for disaster.

My real focus is on developing a good combination and set of players that we can back year on year until the 2023 world cup, rather than continue to chop and change as need be.

But in no way should our rebuilding phase lower the value of the absolute unreal domination phase by Pakistan during the years 2016-2018 in T20 cricket. The only team we didn’t play against was India, otherwise we smashed pretty much every other team like no tomorrow.
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fair enough.
 
Awaam: BRING IN YOUNGSTERS!!! EVEN IF WE LOSEEEE!!! :akhtar

After losing 1 match with 5-6 debutants:

Awaam: What has happened to the team? HOW THE HECK DID WE LOSE? DROP THAT DEBUTANT!! WHY SO MANY YOUNGSTERS??

WE'RE ALWAYS REBUILDING!!


:salute

Chill.

Glad that we've kicked out the oldies and building a team.

Past T20 team was terrible. FAKE rankings. Got thumped when it mattered.

The new team with youngsters will be better than that. They'll play better than them. Obviously won't win the World T20.

Neither the previous seniors team nor the now-young team can win that. Need more world-class players.
 
Not a Sarfraz fan but the way he was ousted was pathetic and demoralizing not just for him but the whole team. Yes he lost form, but shouldn't have been stripped of t20i captaincy knowing there is no one else to replace him.
Mani and Wasim Khan may have done some good work but the way they have handled the national team's affairs has been shambolic. Inserting Misbah straight into the coaching role took away the credibility from a very good ex player and Misbah is himself to be blamed as well for jumping in when he definitely wasn't ready.
Appointing Waqar for a fourth tenure was just as stupid.

In 2018, we won the t20 series in NZ, won against Aus in UAE and were pretty competitive elsewhere as well. We haven't been doing any of that since the changes took over.
The loss to SL at home was more due to insecurity and impending changes that had been leaked before time.

Wish there was some accountability not just for players but the people in the board and management making genius decisions and creating chaos all the time.
 
Some of the players were new and were playing well unfortunately they’ve all regressed quickly and now been worked out in T20s we are also struggling or have been for a while.

You can’t blame the selectors too much here other than not having a settled batting lineup they’ve given chances to younger players aswell but we are simply not good enough at the moment.
 
Watched the match late and then came here to witness this avalanche of bile, hyperbole and ridiculous takes, from the usual suspects.

So I'll post where we are and where we go from here in a separate post. But the TLDR version is, we truly are in transition and need to make the most of our limited resources. That's currently not happening. Will elaborate more in my next post
 
We kicked out a professional coach Mickey Arthur who was kicked out a by a team which had Misbah as well and then he resigned and became the coach himself.. So that means we hired an unprofessional coach through an unprofessional way what else do you expect :)
 
Pakistan was one of the strong T20 side under Misbha.
Never found/tried for replacements for Afridi ,Malik and Hafeez during that period instead they continuing the pensioners.

Except Pakistan all other teams doing experiments in T20 format and introduced many new faces.

There you lost.
 
Hawkeye said:
Awaam: BRING IN YOUNGSTERS!!! EVEN IF WE LOSEEEE!!! :akhtar

After losing 1 match with 5-6 debutants:

Awaam: What has happened to the team? HOW THE HECK DID WE LOSE? DROP THAT DEBUTANT!! WHY SO MANY YOUNGSTERS??

WE'RE ALWAYS REBUILDING!!


:salute

Chill.

Glad that we've kicked out the oldies and building a team.

Past T20 team was terrible. FAKE rankings. Got thumped when it mattered.

The new team with youngsters will be better than that. They'll play better than them. Obviously won't win the World T20.

Neither the previous seniors team nor the now-young team can win that. Need more world-class players.
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This team is pure rubbish, and will continue to go down the rankings and will reach no.9 where Misbah left us in ODI's.
 
Guess no long term policies were adopted by any of the previous board's regime and coaching staff and passed onto another. And also too much of chopping and changing not letting things settled.

And then whatever natural talent that existed, vanished due to defensive and fear-of-losing mindset.
 
King_Kohli said:
Pakistan was one of the strong T20 side under Misbha.
Never found/tried for replacements for Afridi ,Malik and Hafeez during that period instead they continuing the pensioners.

Except Pakistan all other teams doing experiments in T20 format and introduced many new faces.

There you lost.
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That is my take as well we never blooded deserving youngsters when playing easier teams, and now we having an influx of young inexperienced players with hardly any senior to guide them or give them confidence in the middle. Still it is better than keep playing most seniors in the team. We will lose many games but then these talented guys will learn how to fight it out in internationals.
 
Pakistan are currently left with the playing resource remains of a disastrous (now defunct) domestic system that was failing since 2008; talented but incredibly raw youngsters with little high level (SENA/India/IPL) experience and a coach who has been a failure full stop.

1) The products of the disastrous domestic system - Since 2008 we have only seen Babar Azam and Haris Sohail emerge as batsmen who can play at a decent level. For a single sport country of Pakistan's size, that is a stunning, damning indictment of mismanagement of resources, talent identification and talent development. Najam Sethi, Zaka Ashraf, Ijaz Butt and Shehryer Khan, and your rotten stewardship , pls take a bow. The new system may change that, but it'll take a good 3-4 years to get more seasoned players from it.

2) Raw youngsters - The young batsmen in the team have not spent enough time in the domestic scene to understand how to build innings and to understand their own game. The mistakes that I mentioned in point 1 mean that we have to play them (as turning to Malik, Shehzad and Akmal is even more of a misstep), and as with any youngster, they will blow both hot and cold.

Make no mistake, even if Abdullah Shafique, Haider Ali and Khushdil Shah fail in the next two matches, they need to be given a long rope. These are some of the best that we have, and we shouldn't curtail their development via quick judgements. They need to be supported at the coaching level, at the media level and by fans too. The support and confidence they'll feel now will stand us in good stead in the future.

3) Misbah's disastrous coaching - How many hours and posts have been dedicated to this topic, and here's one more - Of all the international coaching jobs, Pakistan's is the most challenging. This is the one role where you need the coach to make a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts. If you do that you can regularly challenge the big boys. The PCT coach needs to be an excellent motivator, an intelligent tactician, a respected father figure with clarity in decision making. Misbah unfortunately is none of these things. Case in point:

Using Rizwan to open the innings - Thus was done to 'accomodate' Rizwan's middling strike rate. However, at the other end you have a talented youngster in Shafique who will also take time and because of Rizwan's lack of firepower will be forced to play a hasty uncharacteristic shot and get out. Like today. Not tactically intelligent at all. Meanwhile Zeeshan Malik is wasting his time on the bench for Shaheens for a format he will not play in. *** man?

Lack of motivational ability - The best coaches increase the confidence of their charges. Can anyone claim that Haider, Shafique or Khushdil played with any clarity of mind or with the shackles off? They looked SO nervy out there. That's partially on them but the coaching staff play a big part here. Not an effective part, clearly.

There are many more points to raise, but the bottom line is clearly this: Using a good near 18 months of evidence, has Misbah substantively improved the team in any shape or form, especially against teams ranked above PCT, playing their full strength teams? The proof lies in the pudding.


In closing I'll just say that, even if Misbah is replaced tomorrow, the raw talent pool we gave means that we'll lose more than we win. By that the very least the new coach will progress the team, albeit slowly. Currently we really feel like we're in quicksand.

InshAllah hopefully things improve in the future, but we need more inspiring leadership from the coach and Misbah AND Waqar too are not it.
 
This downward spiral isn't something that started today whilst we gave a few youngsters a chance, this has been ongoing for quite some time.
 
Saj said:
This downward spiral isn't something that started today whilst we gave a few youngsters a chance, this has been ongoing for quite some time.
Click to expand...

Indeed, we've papered over the cracks for some time, and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

However I still believe that this team, with a few tweaks and more inspirational coaching staff can be more than the sum of its parts.
The current coaching staff means that the players either perform to their own level or below their own level. You need a motivational coach that can get the best out of these lot. Misbah, as a steady Eddie, is just not that person.
 
Last edited:
Saj said:
This downward spiral isn't something that started today whilst we gave a few youngsters a chance, this has been ongoing for quite some time.
Click to expand...

You can’t expect youngsters to win matches against the best teams they need time to settle the previous batch of new players played well initially but regressed and their form tailed off most are no longer part of the playing eleven.
 
King_Kohli said:
Pakistan was one of the strong T20 side under Misbha.
Never found/tried for replacements for Afridi ,Malik and Hafeez during that period instead they continuing the pensioners.

Except Pakistan all other teams doing experiments in T20 format and introduced many new faces.

There you lost.
Click to expand...

Add Gul and Ajmal too.
 
Issue I see is lack of power hitters hey.

When Afridi, Hafeez used to smash it wasn't a problem

Need strong power hitting technical players.

Best bet is to pick the most talented power hitting technical batsmen from first class cricket. Yes first class not T20.

To me you have to be a good test player to get picked for T20. That way Pakistan can benefit in both formats.

India have done that and it is helping alot. No reason why Pakistan cant. They have incredible amount of talent.
 
Hyperion66 said:
True, bar Babar not a single player who can be considered world class. Shaheen is just decent that's about it. The state is so bad that Afridi can just walk into their lineup purely on merit. Hafeez who is like half a century old is still a major part of the team!! I am surprised that by and large Pak fans aren't horrified by this team.
Click to expand...

Shaheen is decent hes world class even at this youg age.
 
Hawkeye said:
Awaam: BRING IN YOUNGSTERS!!! EVEN IF WE LOSEEEE!!! :akhtar

After losing 1 match with 5-6 debutants:

Awaam: What has happened to the team? HOW THE HECK DID WE LOSE? DROP THAT DEBUTANT!! WHY SO MANY YOUNGSTERS??

WE'RE ALWAYS REBUILDING!!


:salute

Chill.

Glad that we've kicked out the oldies and building a team.

Past T20 team was terrible. FAKE rankings. Got thumped when it mattered.

The new team with youngsters will be better than that. They'll play better than them. Obviously won't win the World T20.

Neither the previous seniors team nor the now-young team can win that. Need more world-class players.
Click to expand...

Exactly how the fans react to 1 bad performance from the youngesters.great post
 
Give the youngesters time to settle then you will see results and dont chop and change the youngesters give them a reasonable time before you judge or get rid of them.
 
We definitely over rely on certain players, like Babar, Hafeez, Imad, Shaheen (and sometimes Wahab). I know it's a typical Pakistan cricket trope, but the team is so inconsistent, but lately they've been consistently sub-par. I don't see an easy way to fix this, I think the delusion of 'we have the most talent in the world but the management and coaches (who are a problem, don't get me wrong) are holding them back' is finally starting to fade. We just aren't a top-3 T20I side.
 
There is one simple reason - MISBAH UL HAQ.

How can we forget his embarrassing end as a T20 player when he refused to retire despite clearly not having the skill. Instead he came out of bat in the deciding match of a T20 series against England and from a winning position - tuktukked Pakistan to a loss. It was unlike anything I’ve seen. After that he was dropped and removed from captaincy.

He did the same thing in PSL where he refused to leave IU as a player and even when he agreed, he suddenly backtracked and rejoined another team to continue as a player.



Now he is bringing his philosophy as a coach. He just does not know how to win T20 games. I guarantee, give the same squad to someone like Mohammad Wasim even and he won’t loose matches against Sri Lanka C etc.
 
Team was overrated before, and they are worse now. Luckily there are only around 8 countries that play cricket, so its possible that Pakistan can still win a tournament.
 
What’s wrong with our t20 team is when we play the likes of Rizwan and Abdullah Shafiq over genuine power hitters like Sharjeel Khan and Umar Akmal.

Seeing Shadab come at 5, I’m now losing my love for this game, i feel like an Arsenal fan right now.
 
YousafTheBeast said:
What’s wrong with our t20 team is when we play the likes of Rizwan and Abdullah Shafiq over genuine power hitters like Sharjeel Khan and Umar Akmal.

Seeing Shadab come at 5, I’m now losing my love for this game, i feel like an Arsenal fan right now.
Click to expand...

Sarjeel lacks fitness.
Umar is just not good enough.
 
You are not going to win a 120 ball match with 50 dot balls.
To my surprise 18 dot balls in power plays.
And you are opening inning with a player who is not able to get a place in domestic teams. He alone played 13 dot balls that too in power plays
 
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