When military personnel talk about their sacrifices in vain....

[MenInG]

I am hearing a lot of this from US and Nato forces personnel ...

They feel leaving Afghanistan is a betrayal and is something that makes all their sacrifices in vain.

My question

1. Did they go to Afghanistan out of a moral obligation to rid the country of Taliban, democracy or were they ordered there?

2. If ordered, did they have a choice to NOT go?

3. Were they paid for this assignment.

If they were ordered to go there, and paid for it then what is the point of talking about sacrifices as if the went there for personal beliefs.

Guess this is a question for all armed forces personnel from all parts of the world.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"I have been fighting for 17 years. I am willing to throw it all away to say to my senior leaders, I demand accountability." - Marine Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller on the failures in Afghanistan that led to American servicemen dying. <a href="https://t.co/JPH3nTctrG">pic.twitter.com/JPH3nTctrG</a></p>— David Hookstead (@dhookstead) <a href="https://twitter.com/dhookstead/status/1431225824099848192?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 27, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Robert]

I am hearing a lot of this from US and Nato forces personnel ...

They feel leaving Afghanistan is a betrayal and is something that makes all their sacrifices in vain.

My question

1. Did they go to Afghanistan out of a moral obligation to rid the country of Taliban, democracy or were they ordered there?

2. If ordered, did they have a choice to NOT go?

3. Were they paid for this assignment.

If they were ordered to go there, and paid for it then what is the point of talking about sacrifices as if the went there for personal beliefs.

Guess this is a question for all armed forces personnel from all parts of the world.

1. Depends on the soldier

2. No, they would face court-martial

3. Of course, they draw salary.

They have to feel that something was achieved to justify the loss of their comrades, and all those crippled physically or mentally.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I am hearing a lot of this from US and Nato forces personnel ...

They feel leaving Afghanistan is a betrayal and is something that makes all their sacrifices in vain.

My question

1. Did they go to Afghanistan out of a moral obligation to rid the country of Taliban, democracy or were they ordered there?

2. If ordered, did they have a choice to NOT go?

3. Were they paid for this assignment.

If they were ordered to go there, and paid for it then what is the point of talking about sacrifices as if the went there for personal beliefs.

Guess this is a question for all armed forces personnel from all parts of the world.

I sympathise with them. These guys lost loved ones, came back beaten and blue, suffer depression but it was all justified because they were allegedly making America safe and freeing Afghanistan from the Taliban.

To now run away with their tails between their legs and hand over power to the same taliban must be a massive kick in the teeth.

The myth has been well and truly shattered and that can be hard to take.

 

[Technics 1210]

No sympathy from me. They decided to join the military, they knew what they were signing up for. They are given orders, no need for emotions. I bet they never felt an innocent civilian that died at their hands was in vain.

Humiliated, change your career cos it doesn’t look like Amreeka will be invading another country this century.

 

[pillionrider]

If they were ordered to go there, and paid for it then what is the point of talking about sacrifices as if the went there for personal beliefs.

Om Puri said this on television once and they all but lynched him live.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">"I have been fighting for 17 years. I am willing to throw it all away to say to my senior leaders, I demand accountability." - Marine Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller on the failures in Afghanistan that led to American servicemen dying. <a href="https://t.co/JPH3nTctrG">pic.twitter.com/JPH3nTctrG</a></p>— David Hookstead (@dhookstead) <a href="https://twitter.com/dhookstead/status/1431225824099848192?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 27, 2021</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

A US marine colonel has been relieved of command after posting a video online demanding accountability from "senior leaders" over the evacuation from Afghanistan.

Lt Col Stuart Scheller posted a video on Facebook and LinkedIn on Thursday in which expressed his "growing discontent and contempt for... perceived ineptitude at the foreign policy level".

"The reason people are so upset... is not because the marines on the battlefield let someone down... People are upset because their senior leaders let them down. And none of them are raising their hands," he said, adding he was willing to risk his job, retirement and family stability to say this.

His video has been shared more than 43,000 times on Facebook.

On Friday afternoon, Col Scheller announced he'd been relieved of his command "based on a lack of trust and confidence".

“My chain of command is doing exactly what I would do... if I were in their shoes,” he wrote.

Dan Crenshaw, a Texas congressman and former Navy Seal, tweeted: ""This guy is all class. He knew what the consequences would be. His concerns are not wrong."

Maj Jim Stenger, a spokesperson for the Marine Corps, said: “This is obviously an emotional time for a lot of marines. There is a forum in which marine leaders can address their disagreements with the chain of command, but it’s not social media.”

 

[Napa]

I am hearing a lot of this from US and Nato forces personnel ...

They feel leaving Afghanistan is a betrayal and is something that makes all their sacrifices in vain.

My question

1. Did they go to Afghanistan out of a moral obligation to rid the country of Taliban, democracy or were they ordered there?

2. If ordered, did they have a choice to NOT go?

3. Were they paid for this assignment.

If they were ordered to go there, and paid for it then what is the point of talking about sacrifices as if the went there for personal beliefs.

Guess this is a question for all armed forces personnel from all parts of the world.

Most went because they were ordered to, but some like Tillman went due to their belief that they should serve their country.

At one point in his NFL career, Tillman turned down a five-year, $9 million contract offer from the St. Louis Rams out of loyalty to the Cardinals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman#Professional_career

 

[JaDed]

A lot of people went because they wanted to serve their country, only Asians don’t have right to nationalism/religious armies.

Crusades were fought for years were they ordered to do so as well?

Religious wars have spoken about sacrifices as well, weren't they important?

 

[MenInG]

A lot of people went because they wanted to serve their country, only Asians don’t have right to nationalism/religious armies.

Crusades were fought for years were they ordered to do so as well?

Religious wars have spoken about sacrifices as well, weren't they important?

If an Army was being raised for a specific goal and people enlisted in it for that, it would be one thing.

If you are a professional soldier, you have no choice over where you are sent - its not as if you can choose the wars you want to fight.

 

[sweep_shot]

I don't know why many soldiers feel like they are doing something special.

They get paid to do their jobs. It is not like they work for free.

Every profession requires sacrifices. A doctor is no less special than a soldier.

 

[JaDed]

If an Army was being raised for a specific goal and people enlisted in it for that, it would be one thing.

If you are a professional soldier, you have no choice over where you are sent - its not as if you can choose the wars you want to fight.

Actually a lot of people enlisted due to 9/11

https://www.uso.org/stories/2849-why-9-11-inspired-these-patriots-to-join-the-military

this is exactly my point.. also why can’t they question the point of the whole thing?

 

[JaDed]

I don't know why many soldiers feel like they are doing something special.

They get paid to do their jobs. It is not like they work for free.

Every profession requires sacrifices. A doctor is no less special than a soldier.

Doctors are obviously up the ladder lol. Doctors without borders even more so.. no one said A soldier is above the doctor, also aren’t you someone that quotes religion everywhere are you saying religious wars and those soldiers were nothing special to you? I’m sure they got paid as well.

 

[sweep_shot]

Doctors are obviously up the ladder lol. Doctors without borders even more so.. no one said A soldier is above the doctor, also aren’t you someone that quotes religion everywhere are you saying religious wars and those soldiers were nothing special to you? I’m sure they got paid as well.

I was not referring to mujahideen.

I was referring to regular/secular soldiers.

Fighting for God's cause and fighting for secular causes are two different things.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I dont feel sorry for them, not those who choose to join armed forces of nations who are clear aggressors and state terrorists. esp American or Indian soldiers.

 

[Gilly]

I was not referring to mujahideen.

I was referring to regular/secular soldiers.

Fighting for God's cause and fighting for secular causes are two different things.

God does not ask anyone to fight a war, people use gods name as an excuse to go to war.

 

[sweep_shot]

God does not ask anyone to fight a war, people use gods name as an excuse to go to war.

Again, I do not want to be taken out of context.

By mujahideen, I do not mean terrorist groups like ISIS or Boko Haram. I mean actual mujahideen (those who participate in legitimate and just wars).

 

[KingKhanWC]

God does not ask anyone to fight a war, people use gods name as an excuse to go to war.

Why do Australians join their armed forces to invade,occupy a place like Afghanistan?

Do you feel sorry for these bunch?

Australian 'war crimes': Troops to be fired over Afghan killings

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-55088230

 

[Gilly]

Again, I do not want to be taken out of context.

By mujahideen, I do not mean terrorist groups like ISIS or Boko Haram. I mean actual mujahideen (those who participate in legitimate and just wars).

God does not order or ask anyone to fight a war, its as simple as that.

 

[James]

Re: why young men join the armed forces.

Sometimes it is entirely an informed decision when a person becomes a professional soldier, fully in the knowledge that they are likely at some point to kill people and cause misery to others in return for suitable accommodation and a salary.

I do think however that the reasons for naive 15, 16, 17 year olds joining the army can at times be slightly more complex, either for cultural reasons because the messaging around them is incredibly pro-military (as it is in both the US and the UK) or if they come under severe internal pressure from fathers and grandfathers to join up when they come from a military family.

 

[ElRaja]

whatever people join an army, it is fundamentally for themselves, no one would join an army to disadvantage themselve, that being said that does not give those in power carte blanche over doing with the army what they wish.

people underestimate the importance of armies, look at the middle east, or Afghanistan or the more volatile African nations, having a weak army certainly makes u more vulnerable to external destabilisation.

 

[KingKhanWC]

whatever people join an army, it is fundamentally for themselves, no one would join an army to disadvantage themselve, that being said that does not give those in power carte blanche over doing with the army what they wish.

people underestimate the importance of armies, look at the middle east, or Afghanistan or the more volatile African nations, having a weak army certainly makes u more vulnerable to external destabilisation.

In those such nations people join because they need an income. Often there is also a need to fight for you country.

US and UK are nuclear powers, they will not be invaded unless there is a nuclear war. There are many means to earn a living. A lot of these folk who join the armed forces think its cool, makes them feel important or sometimes they want to 'lawfully' kill others because they are scmbags.

 

[Robert]

A lot of people went because they wanted to serve their country, only Asians don’t have right to nationalism/religious armies.

Crusades were fought for years were they ordered to do so as well?

There were no standing armies then. All volunteers. The Pope guaranteed all crusaders a place in Heaven. Of course a bunch of impoverished Norman minor noblemen piled in for the land-grab, hence the Crusader states of the Eastern Mediterranean.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

God does not order or ask anyone to fight a war, its as simple as that.

Unfortunately, all of Tony Blair, George Bush, Mullah Omar and OBL were seemingly inspired by God to fight. Not sure if your Aussie PM was spoken to by God or he just tagged along for the lulz.

 

[Yossarian]

I am hearing a lot of this from US and Nato forces personnel ...

They feel leaving Afghanistan is a betrayal and is something that makes all their sacrifices in vain.

My question

1. Did they go to Afghanistan out of a moral obligation to rid the country of Taliban, democracy or were they ordered there?

2. If ordered, did they have a choice to NOT go?

3. Were they paid for this assignment.

If they were ordered to go there, and paid for it then what is the point of talking about sacrifices as if the went there for personal beliefs.

Guess this is a question for all armed forces personnel from all parts of the world.

"Norman Stanley Fletcher, you have pleaded guilty to the charges brought by this court, and it is now my duty to pass sentence. You are an habitual criminal, who accepts arrest as an occupational hazard, and presumably accepts imprisonment in the same casual manner."

From the BBC sitcom Porridge

For professional soldiers (joining the military voluntarily), trained to kill others, being sent to foreign lands to fight & kill, and possibly be killed, goes with job. It's an occupational hazard.

I don't know where all this 'hero' bit comes into it.

 

[Robert]

In those such nations people join because they need an income. Often there is also a need to fight for you country.

US and UK are nuclear powers, they will not be invaded unless there is a nuclear war. There are many means to earn a living. A lot of these folk who join the armed forces think its cool, makes them feel important or sometimes they want to 'lawfully' kill others because they are scmbags.

Well, I never met such a person.

Some might join up because of family tradition.

Or take a short commission to gain skills and see the world.

Some are lonely and want to join a corps or a crew to feel comradeship. They might be aggressive types who would otherwise end up in prison, so the military provides a service to communities by giving them self-control skills. If the bloke next to them lacks a skill, they teach him it because they might rely on him to save their life later.

A lot of retired officers and senior NCOs make exceptional facilities managers, because the skill set is similar.

All of them expected hard effort and loyalty from their co-workers, and will let you know if you fall short. To a man, they say the same thing - “You civvie blokes don’t know how to look after each other”. I respect them for their team ethic and the furious love they have for each other.

I wish I had served now, like my father and uncles. I would have learned self-discipline and teamwork at a younger age.