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When will Pakistan fans realise Mohammad Amir isn't actually very good?

Snatch

Snatch

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Ok, so he's well into comeback now.

In ODIs he's managed 32 wickets @ 33 at an ER of 5.1 (which is mediocre at best)

In Tests he's managed 44 wickets at almost 40 (which is straight-out poor)

When will fans final acknowledge he's just not very good?

I think it could hold Pakistan cricket back if they just keep selecting this guy based on some ability he once showed as a 20 year old when he's clearly not very good now. I just hope for Pakistan's sake that better bowlers aren't denied an opportunity because of him getting this special privileged treatment. Especially after disgracing the game the way he did.
 
Never. Once in a blue moon he will trouble stalwarts like Kohli for an over and will take his wicket if everything falls in to place. That is enough for Pakistani fans to forget everything else and his mediocrity to hype him.
 
Oh God here we go again! There is no one better at the moment.

Junaid and Shinwari were knocking the door and putting pressure on Amir but they are both injured. He isn't being selected because of his exploits 7 years ago. He's being selected because his output since his return is still 'better than the rest' which a testament to how far PAK cricket has fallen in the last 10 years.
 
He’s a good bowler who isn’t living up to his potential at the moment.

Needs to put some hard work in at the gym and also correct his technical issues.

He should be touching 150kph at ease.
 
I think he's had bad luck with a lot of catches dropped I don't think that he should be dropped. He comes through during pressure situations and that's really what we need right now.
 
When he stops taking three top order wickets in the final of world events.
 
Sometimes you have to look beyond tests. I agree with the idea that he may need some time away from the test team but in ODIs he is every bit as skilled as the top ODI bowlers around. His numbers don't reflect the amount of dropped catches he has suffered and the fact that he has been unlucky. I hate to use that word but the amount of lbws where the ball has just gone over the stumps, balls dropping short, batsmen sneaking them off their legs etc.

He has rarely looked overwhelmed by a batsman and has shown up in crucial matches in the CT and Asia cup. He isn't living up to the potential of his 17 year old self but he still has tonnes of skill and rarely gets to bowl in conditions suited for the art...when he did, for Essex in the CC, he did very well.
 
barah_admi said:
Sometimes you have to look beyond tests. I agree with the idea that he may need some time away from the test team but in ODIs he is every bit as skilled as the top ODI bowlers around. His numbers don't reflect the amount of dropped catches he has suffered and the fact that he has been unlucky. I hate to use that word but the amount of lbws where the ball has just gone over the stumps, balls dropping short, batsmen sneaking them off their legs etc.
.
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Excuses, excuses, excuses... all bowlers have catches dropped off them and have unlucky things happen...it's part of the game.

I don't recall many dropped catches off Amir in this series just been and he took just 2 wickets in 4 games. Yes Just two.

What's your excuse for that? Is it that the wickets don't suit pace bowling? Boult by comparison took 9 wickets in the same amount of games.
 
Left armers are always weary of getting too close to the stumps to avoid running on the pitch but Amir has to get close without running on the wicket. More than technical its mental blockage which stops him getting close and if he doesn't sort it soon, his wicket taking ability will be permanently diminished.
 
babajee said:
Against an awful associate level top order
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But wait, we keep getting told how great the likes a Babar, Haris and Fakhat are? At least we did prior to the series starting. Funny how when it suits you, your top order is associate level, but other times they're world beaters. All I heard from Pakistan fans prior to the series was how good Babar was.

Wish you guys would make up your minds.

Look you can spin this any way you like, but Amir was ordinary at best with the ball.

You think Australian bowlers like Hazelwood or Starc would only take 2 wickets in 4 ODIs taking the new all in NZ?

Bit of honesty please.
 
Snatch said:
But wait, we keep getting told how great the likes a Babar, Haris and Fakhat are? At least we did prior to the series starting. Funny how when it suits you, your top order as associate level, but other times they're world beaters. All I heard from Pakistan fans prior to the series is how good Babar was.

Wish you guys would make up your minds.

Look you can spin this any way you like, but Amir was ordinary at best with the ball.

You think Australian bowlers like Hazelwood or Starc would only take 2 wickets in 4 ODIs taking the new all in NZ?

Bit of honesty please.
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I’m just saying that 4/5 top order batsmen in this series were duds. Azhar, Babar, Hafeez and Malik. So it’s not some otherworldly performance from Boult

Babar is good but was a walking wicket this series, and Haris only came in the last 2 games.

I agree Amir was severely under par.
 
Syed1 said:
When he stops taking three top order wickets in the final of world events.
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Yea that was an ATG performance.

I mean Amir didn't have a good series, but remember, the best batsman in the world did call him the toughest bowler to face. So, I wouldn't drop him just yet, and if you do, who do you replace him with exactly?
 
Rayyman said:
Yea that was an ATG performance.

I mean Amir didn't have a good series, but remember, the best batsman in the world did call him the toughest bowler to face. So, I wouldn't drop him just yet, and if you do, who do you replace him with exactly?
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Smith said that?
 
He is a big match player a very rare thing for a Pakistani player or any player around the world for that matter.

He always deliver in big games be it CT final or WCT20 final or Asia Cup final vs India etc. He is definitely not at his peak currently and I guess needs motivations for bilateral series. Once he is motivated and has his mind on the game he delivers.
 
Rayyman said:
Umm Smith is not better than Kohli. Only in Tests but im talking all formats combined.
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Interesting, so Kohli has apparently said that about Starc, Morkel, Boult, Amir, Anderson and Steyn now, and that's just the pace bowlers.
 
Amir is truthfully an average bowler at best, could be considered a bad bowler in tests tbh. The mentality of his supporters is really sad. They honestly support him because of his once in a year performance, especially against India, and he knows that. Amir knows that there are, unfortunately, certain single minded fans who will disregard his pathetic performance all year long only because he took 3 wickets in the final-which is why he is under less pressure. Fans have made him such an over-hyped player that it's hard for them to believe that is not the player who they thought he was. I would have liked to see him take 3 big wickets on matches we didn't score 340 runs, unfortunately that's not gonna happen. :amir2
 
He is always very economical, and that is because the opposing batsmen always play him carefully. That results in not too many wickets .... fairly simple .... I think !!!!
 
He's not getting the swing he had before 2010 or even the pace either. Before he was around 145+ most of the time and occasionally got to 150kph or thereb abouts but now is 140-142 max and gets the odd one up at 145.
 
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He has been such a garbage bowler since his comeback baring few matches. Still living with the performances of 09/10.
 
Deewana Mastana said:
On PP, every second player who comes out is hyped to no ends be it anyone.
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Its a Pakistani forum. Ofcourse every player will be hyped. All teams do it. Cricinfo hyped India to the moon the start of the South African series, before they got smashed, kicked in the groin and pulled ruthlessly back to reality.

Amir struggles due to his mindset. Just going through the motions in this series. Its like Guptill, Williamson etc are not as important to bowl to as Kohli, Sharma, Matthews etc. Needs to be told playing for your country is a privilege, not a right.
 
He should stick to ODIs only. He was doing the right thing by getting retirement from Tests
 
If any sane Pakistan fan lets his emotions get the better of him, he would want to throw him out of the team for a couple of years because of his non-serious attitude.

However the best way is to put pressure on him by selecting some really good bowlers in the side. He knows he is better than the likes of Rumman and Junaid.
 
he's good when he's fired up (like CT Final) otherwise he go through motions.
 
BOWL. CLOSE. TO. THE. WICKET!

And he is doing totally the opposite. Which makes his in-swing to the right hand out of the equation. He will remain crap in the foreseeable future if he continues to do that.
 
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Amir should not be dropped. Atleast for now.

1.Make him a Captain, so that he feels the responsibility. Right now, he's taking things for granted

2. Increase the competitors, so that he can feel the heat.
 
As long as fans keep supporting him for his once in a blue moon performance and keep making excuses for him, he'll become another 'superstar' for us like Afridi. Tells you all you need to know about the mentality of the supporters. They refuse to see the consistent short of the length garbage he's been bowling for the last 2 years.

That he's had catches dropped off his bowling was an excuse you could have used during the initial months of his comeback. Since then, our fielding has vastly improved and I don't recall us dropping many catches. We've had some really good fielders in our side for the last 9-12 months.

Truth is, he's still living off of his pre ban hype. He doesn't trouble ANY batsman, I don't know which matches you guys watch. He's as predictable a bowler as any without any hint of movement in his bowling. Every single delivery of his is bowled on exactly the same line and length.

We'd be willing to carry any and every player who performs against India for the next 2-3 years, so it's no surprise many people still think he's a 'world class' bowler. Wahab had a free ride in the team for 2 years after his performance against Australia in the '15 WC because of superlatives like 'aggression, bravery' and what not.

If your top domestic bowler like Sadaf, who's been topping the charts for the last 3 seasons running at least, can't get into the side in place of a non performing player we're willing to play just because he 'might' do something every once in a while, what message is that sending to him and others who keep toiling away in the domestic circuit?
 
MeanAndGreen said:
Oh God here we go again! There is no one better at the moment.

Junaid and Shinwari were knocking the door and putting pressure on Amir but they are both injured. He isn't being selected because of his exploits 7 years ago. He's being selected because his output since his return is still 'better than the rest' which a testament to how far PAK cricket has fallen in the last 10 years.
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Sadaf???
 
ipl_fan said:
Never. Once in a blue moon he will trouble stalwarts like Kohli for an over and will take his wicket if everything falls in to place. That is enough for Pakistani fans to forget everything else and his mediocrity to hype him.
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Of course.
THAT over beats all the jamodis you care so much about....
 
After his comeback he was never the same bowler. He was just good for a 3-4 over opening spell and bringing the bowl in, something which he did'nt do in New Zealand at all. Same thing he did against a losing Sri Lanka in the test in UAE. At that time his supporters made escuses that he lacked match fitness although he played whole county season and 4 day matches for Essex. He bowled poorly alongwith no ball spray gun Wahab Riaz as PAkistan was defeated in the Test series.Then this stalwart used excuse of shin injury and not played the odis and most of t20 v Sri Lanka.

PAkistanis need to realize he is not our strike bowler, it is Junaid Khan. When Junaid Khan did'nt play in the test series v Sri Lanka we lost the series on home conditions, now again he did'nt bowl in the NZ series we lost in them as well. If Shinwari would've played New Zealand they would be jumping infront of the off stump to negotiate the seam and bounce.

Pakistan needs to utilize and enhance the skillset of its bank of 8 bowlers some of whom are on central contracts and some in the domestic structure playing for department.
Ghulam Mudassir, Zia ul Haq, Mir Hamza,etc... They should sort out the personal issues between Sohail Khan and the management, instead of wasting time on Umar Akmal.

Drop Amir and rest of seniors from automatic selections by Inzamam, this team will not even be able to face Ireland in the World Cup
 
When will Pakistan fans realise Mohammad Amir isn't actually very good?

When will Pakistan fans realise Pakistan team isn't actually very good?
 
Lol there are no mental issues or lack of effort on his part. It's all technical. He really needs to somehow get that inswing against the right-handers going. He looks a different bowler altogether whenever he gets some inswing.
 
Snatch said:
Excuses, excuses, excuses... all bowlers have catches dropped off them and have unlucky things happen...it's part of the game.

I don't recall many dropped catches off Amir in this series just been and he took just 2 wickets in 4 games. Yes Just two.

What's your excuse for that? Is it that the wickets don't suit pace bowling? Boult by comparison took 9 wickets in the same amount of games.
Click to expand...

I'm not specifically talking just this series, where no one really did well apart from Zaman and the ever impressive Shadab. Plus, few teams (maybe Zimb and Bangladesh...possibly WI) drop as many catches as Pakistan have done. Anyway, that is only part of the point I made. If you watch Amir bowl, he has all the required skill to be a success, especially in the shorter formats. He probably needs time away from tests but then again, we saw how well he did for Essex not so long ago.

He is a very good bowler and only a handful in world cricket have been better. Plus there is no one in Pakistan to replace him anyway.
 
Snatch said:
Ok, so he's well into comeback now.

In ODIs he's managed 32 wickets @ 33 at an ER of 5.1 (which is mediocre at best)

In Tests he's managed 44 wickets at almost 40 (which is straight-out poor)

When will fans final acknowledge he's just not very good?

I think it could hold Pakistan cricket back if they just keep selecting this guy based on some ability he once showed as a 20 year old when he's clearly not very good now. I just hope for Pakistan's sake that better bowlers aren't denied an opportunity because of him getting this special privileged treatment. Especially after disgracing the game the way he did.
Click to expand...

I realised a long time age that it will take a couple of years before Amir gets back his mojo back.. but with haters like U lining up left ,right centre , it’s very annoying face palm moments .. he has to work hard @ all will be good inshallah
 
Only one thing i agree with Mamoon on this forum is that Amir is mediocre and shud not be in the team based on his performances
 
Meanwhile Mitchel "best bowler in the world" Starc was smashed for 62 of his 10 without a wicket, yesterday....


But but but Amir is so overrated :sree
 
His pace is about the same as it used to be. Naturally, when you are younger you go flat out and bowl aggressively. He seems to care more about line and length these days, and hardly bowls effective bouncers or Yorkers.
 
Sadly , he has plummeted to Irfan Pathan level. Pak fans should be worried and maybe the time is ripe for thinking about a replacement ....
 
Syed1 said:
Meanwhile Mitchel "best bowler in the world" Starc was smashed for 62 of his 10 without a wicket, yesterday....


But but but Amir is so overrated :sree
Click to expand...

Starc took four wickets in the previous ODI.

The last (and only) time Amir did that was in 2009. :danish
 
Abdullah719 said:
Starc took four wickets in the previous ODI.

The last (and only) time Amir did that was in 2009. :danish
Click to expand...

But he still averages 32 with econ of 6.5 in this series..... So similar to Amir he showed up in one game and got blasted in the rest.
 
Syed1 said:
But he still averages 32 with econ of 6.5 in this series..... So similar to Amir he showed up in one game and got blasted in the rest.
Click to expand...

Can you also compare their overall stats???

Also you seem to go gaga over his performance in one game in CT of all things while ignoring Starc’s performance in the World Cup :))

You need to channel your immense patriotism towards your birth country rather than making these ridiculous comparisons :)) that would be better served
 
No secret really. Actual video evidence, naked eye and stats don't lie. He started of promisingly on his comeback in 2016 but has gone downhill over a period of time. His fitness hasn't been good enough and the quality in his bowling declined with time.
 
I'm not even going to lie to you but he hasn't been picking up wickets like he should be. He's bowling too defensively and he needs to start attacking more with the ball.
 
His RPO in ODI's is 5, which is very good. If not taking wickets he gives Pakistan some control with the new ball, rarely the opposition gets off to a flyer. His is one of the best limited overs bowlers in Pakistan.

Pakistan play England in May, if he can't get the ball to swing then and run through England, drop him test cricket.
 
Syed1 said:
But he still averages 32 with econ of 6.5 in this series..... So similar to Amir he showed up in one game and got blasted in the rest.
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As someone who is the self proclaimed leader of the stats brigade you sure are one fickle person.

Starc picks up wickets regularly, him going wicketless is a rarity, but Amir in the other hand picks up wickets at the same rate Azhar plays meaningful knocks against non minnows in ODIs.
 
I think Amir was a very good bowler when he started out but hasn't been the same since his return. Yes he has had few good spells here and there but overall his consistency has been lacking. Pakistan fans for the entire time he was suspended thought that he was some sort of a messiah who would turn their bowling around, so it will be hard for them to quickly accept he is mediocre.
 
He is very good. You have to actually watch him bowl to know that. His average will come down in time.

ipl_fan said:
Never. Once in a blue moon he will trouble stalwarts like Kohli for an over and will take his wicket if everything falls in to place. That is enough for Pakistani fans to forget everything else and his mediocrity to hype him.
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Owning Kohli at the biggest stages is not difficult. It never is when the guy is such a massive choker.
 
Bilal7 said:
He is very good. You have to actually watch him bowl to know that. His average will come down in time.



Owning Kohli at the biggest stages is not difficult. It never is when the guy is such a massive choker.
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How much more time? It’s been 2 years since his come back, FGS. Enough is enough, it’s time to put the foot down and stop putting up with the mediocrity that he’s providing.
 
I doubt any Pakistani wakes up just to see Amir Bowl. People would wake up or just see the team play to watch the likes of Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Shoaib bowl.
 
blue_champion said:
Can you also compare their overall stats???

Also you seem to go gaga over his performance in one game in CT of all things while ignoring Starc’s performance in the World Cup :))

You need to channel your immense patriotism towards your birth country rather than making these ridiculous comparisons :)) that would be better served
Click to expand...

He never said Starc was better than Amir. Was just using the best fast bowler (Starc)'s performances as a barometer for the others.
 
Syed1 said:
Meanwhile Mitchel "best bowler in the world" Starc was smashed for 62 of his 10 without a wicket, yesterday....


But but but Amir is so overrated :sree
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Are you serious? Amir hasn't been performing for the last TWO years and been bowling short of the length rubbish in that time. Has had 2 good games in that period, both against India. Meanwhile, Starc has only had a handful of bad games in the last 4 years.

Amazing analysis and comparison. Hats off to you, sir.
 
If you think your primary strike bowler's job is to bowl defensively and not go for runs without picking up wickets, there really is no debate to be had here.
 
Amir's infatuation with short pitched bowling continues. It so cringeworthy.
 
Lol even Rumman has more wickets than the over rated pace bowling zulfiqar babar
 
Rayyman said:
He never said Starc was better than Amir. Was just using the best fast bowler (Starc)'s performances as a barometer for the others.
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What barometer? So you are saying the best bowler in the world in Odis having a rare off day or 2 is an example to go with to prove the utility of another bowler who had just 1 or 2 good days since comeback lol
 
He has been absolutely useless on this tour

BUT

He bowled brilliantly today with pace and hostility. He touched 147 kph today and consistently bowlee over 145. Watch the match folks. This pitch NEEDS you to bowl short unlike all the other pitches we have seen. It has unusually steep bounce from just short of a good length area. Say what you want but Amir bowled well today.
 
Madplayer said:
He has been absolutely useless on this tour

BUT

He bowled brilliantly today with pace and hostility. He touched 147 kph today and consistently bowlee over 145. Watch the match folks. This pitch NEEDS you to bowl short unlike all the other pitches we have seen. It has unusually steep bounce from just short of a good length area. Say what you want but Amir bowled well today.
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Exactly.
 
Actually they didn't want to listen any thing against Amir. He is not getting wickets and wicket column is more important to an opening bowler.
 
khurram39 said:
Actually they didn't want to listen any thing against Amir. He is not getting wickets and wicket column is more important to an opening bowler.
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A quality strike bowler blasts the batsman out regardless of whether they are attacking him or defending against him. Amir is just looking incapable in either scenario.
 
He bowled better today. I wonder If he quietly read this thread of mine and it fired him up.
 
Muhammad amir the 140 kph plus bowler is as good as anyone.
Any slower and he is just not the same . Very pace dependant bowler . Must always bowl full pelt if played.
 
Very Avg and overhyped bowler after his return. Remember one thing stats dont lie. Nonsense excuses of dropped catches blah blah
 
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Amir is not bowling according to our expectations yes and he is not taking wickets but who can actually replace him ? I do not see the point of these threads , criticism for the sake of it. Who are these better bowlers that are being denied the opportunity because of his 'special' treatment ?
 
Madplayer said:
He has been absolutely useless on this tour

BUT

He bowled brilliantly today with pace and hostility. He touched 147 kph today and consistently bowlee over 145. Watch the match folks. This pitch NEEDS you to bowl short unlike all the other pitches we have seen. It has unusually steep bounce from just short of a good length area. Say what you want but Amir bowled well today.
Click to expand...

Did he get any wickets? No, end of the discussion. Your strike bowler's job is to take wickets upfront, if you want to see 150kph bowling with agressive stuff but no wickets then Wahab & Sami should be opening the bowling all the time.
 
Azeem Zafar said:
Did he get any wickets? No, end of the discussion. Your strike bowler's job is to take wickets upfront, if you want to see 150kph bowling with agressive stuff but no wickets then Wahab & Sami should be opening the bowling all the time.
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This is a fair point, NZ could afford to take it slow early on, so maybe his economy flatters him slightly.

I do think he looked better this game though, but as you say, he couldn't get a wicket.
 
Amir bowling like this will eventually pick wickets but is he capable of doing it in longer formats? He needs to work on his fitness so he can be 145+ in any format.
 
He might end up being like Asif, the next potentially great bowler who only ever bowled one truly great spell - I have lost count of the number of times the “Asif v India” YouTube video has been posted on PP in Tendulkar debates, and next we might have the “Amir v England @ Lord’s” video infinitely recurring ;-)
 
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