When will Pakistan feature in an ODI World Cup Final again? Let alone win another ODI World Cup?

Suleiman

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Seeing Australia’s epic come back this WC in Asia, can’t help but think of the 1987 WC in Asia where we were favorites and lost to Australia who went on to win the WC.

We had our opportunities in the next 12 years, and cashed in on a grand total of 1.

Now with the Pakistan cricket system in complete disarray, when do you, fellow Pakistanis, think we will feature in an ODI WC Semi final, final or win the whole friggin thing ever again?

Last time we made a semi final was more than 10 years ago.

We have gone 3 WCs back to back without making semi finals let alone finals or being champions. We made 1 semi final in 20 years.

Ofc we are still defending Champions of The Trophy since 2017. But it’s high time we get some more silverware of the original greatest prize of them all.
 
Pakistan team were only reached one time in semifinal of last six World cup .
 
Seeing Australia’s epic come back this WC in Asia, can’t help but think of the 1987 WC in Asia where we were favorites and lost to Australia who went on to win the WC.

We had our opportunities in the next 12 years, and cashed in on a grand total of 1.

Now with the Pakistan cricket system in complete disarray, when do you, fellow Pakistanis, think we will feature in an ODI WC Semi final, final or win the whole friggin thing ever again?

Last time we made a semi final was more than 10 years ago.

We have gone 3 WCs back to back without making semi finals let alone finals or being champions. We made 1 semi final in 20 years.

Ofc we are still defending Champions of The Trophy since 2017. But it’s high time we get some more silverware of the original greatest prize of them all.
Wont happen for a while.

The country is a mess now.
 
Management playing musical chairs every few months

No player development, have to play full strength teams against national sides that would struggle to beat regional ones

Poor game time management, leading to the naseem injury at a crucial time and others playing through strains instead of being rested

ODI mindset stuck in the 90s, negotiating far too many overs even on the roads we have been provided and giving bowlers minimal confidence in defending a total

Awful domestic structure, one of the examples of which is failing to find a single good odi spinner in the many years since ajmal's ban, culminating in the only side to not play a specialist spinner in a subcontinent WC

Truthfully, I don't see us winning a world cup any time in the next few decades. In the far flung future we wil still be looking at the '92 highlights with a sense of longing even when youtube is accessed by thoughts through our integrated brain chips.
 
In 2027 if they pick players who can play modern cricket. You cannot have 4 of the top 5 who are accumulators. Maybe Hafeez (if he stays after the new government is elected) can change the fortunes of PCT as he has a zillion solutions as a cricket analyst on TV.
 
Never until there are some systemic changes in management from the top down.

First things first, completely separate PCB and the Pakistan government; they need to be two separate entities. Nothing will change unless this is taken care of first
 
As long as round robin format is there, don't expect Pak to reach SF let alone final. Pak team lacks consistency in each department and consistency comes when you trust the process and professionalism, Pak team lacks both. No wonder we have been in just 1 ODI WC SF since last 23 years
 
There are like 6 teams who hope for reaching SFs when they go in the world cup.
India Aus Eng SA Pak NZ
Out of these one eventually has a poor tournament like SA in 2019, England in 2023. That makes it a 5 horse race.
Even in this if Pakistan cannot come 4th then there is a need of serious introspection.
 
It isn't easy featuring World Cup Final in ODI format.

In T20s, it's still pretty easy if you have an exciting unpredictable side and find yourself up against Kiwis or Saffers in semi finals.
 
As long as round robin format is there, don't expect Pak to reach SF let alone final. Pak team lacks consistency in each department and consistency comes when you trust the process and professionalism, Pak team lacks both. No wonder we have been in just 1 ODI WC SF since last 23 years
I agree. This format is death for a team that relies on momentum and erratic performance.

Ironically, that’s the format where we have our solitary WC win… but that team despite its issues had a legendary captain and fast bowler.
 
As long as round robin format is there, don't expect Pak to reach SF let alone final. Pak team lacks consistency in each department and consistency comes when you trust the process and professionalism, Pak team lacks both. No wonder we have been in just 1 ODI WC SF since last 23 years
Very true for a team like Pak.
But for fans like me, round robin is best format since all teams play against each other and no team can cry about having easy or tough group.
 
I think as Pak fans we should protest against round robin.

Only group stages with 2 associate teams to farm in each group. Otherwise we won’t play.

What say you?
 
I think as Pak fans we should protest against round robin.

Only group stages with 2 associate teams to farm in each group. Otherwise we won’t play.

What say you?
Don't Pakistani fans get the most tense in those kind of games :srt
 
Seeing Australia’s epic come back this WC in Asia, can’t help but think of the 1987 WC in Asia where we were favorites and lost to Australia who went on to win the WC.

We had our opportunities in the next 12 years, and cashed in on a grand total of 1.

Now with the Pakistan cricket system in complete disarray, when do you, fellow Pakistanis, think we will feature in an ODI WC Semi final, final or win the whole friggin thing ever again?

Last time we made a semi final was more than 10 years ago.

We have gone 3 WCs back to back without making semi finals let alone finals or being champions. We made 1 semi final in 20 years.

Ofc we are still defending Champions of The Trophy since 2017. But it’s high time we get some more silverware of the original greatest prize of them all.

I assure you that when you do make the final, you will actually win it. Because when push comes to shove, Pakistan team turns into cornered tigers.
 
Group A Group B Group C Group D
Pakistan NZ
Bangladesh England
Zimbabwe Netherlands
West Indies Afghanistan

Semi final

Group A winner vs Group B runner

Pakistan vs NZ


Final

Pakistan vs ..

With this format they can reach the final
 
Jokes aside, let’s not forget that Pakistan almost made it to 2019 semi if not for NRR and this time they were robbed by the umpires against South Africa.

So it’s not impossible.

Let’s be frank here and this is something i have been saying for the last 10 years about Bharatiya cricket. Cricket is a poor sport being played by 10 nations regularly and out of them only 6 genuinely aim for trophies. Making semi final of such a sport where there Re always usually just 6 contenders is no big deal. Making a final , yes that’s a much better achievement and maybe this is what @Suleiman is missing so I see where you’re coming from. Now that we are in a final of an ODI World Cup after 12 years having played semis along the way I truly realise the massive difference in status of a final compared to semis.

And seeing South Africa bottling it as usual, also makes you wonder what kind of championship pedigree is needed to make it to finals.

ODI World Cup truly is the biggest thing in this sport.
 
I agree. This format is death for a team that relies on momentum and erratic performance.

Ironically, that’s the format where we have our solitary WC win… but that team despite its issues had a legendary captain and fast bowler.
No Pak didn't have legendary captain as per me. The captain had failed in previous 2 World Cups, retired from international cricket and then came back on PMs request. Had he not come back, he would have been considered as another failed captain like Wasim, Javed, Waqar, Inzi etc. Those who say he had never give up attitude are delusional as he had already given up earlier in his career. He should be thankful to PCB and govt. who gave him 3rd chance after failing in 2 earlier attempts.
 
I assure you that when you do make the final, you will actually win it. Because when push comes to shove, Pakistan team turns into cornered tigers.
Appreciate the support bro.

I have to support Australia in the finals this year due to appearances, but if circumstances were different I would happily mirror the support for India.
 
No Pak didn't have legendary captain as per me. The captain had failed in previous 2 World Cups, retired from international cricket and then came back on PMs request. Had he not come back, he would have been considered as another failed captain like Wasim, Javed, Waqar, Inzi etc. Those who say he had never give up attitude are delusional as he had already given up earlier in his career. He should be thankful to PCB and govt. who gave him 3rd chance after failing in 2 earlier attempts.
Sorry, I cannot tolerate this sort of disrespect for our biggest legend in Pakistan cricket, and arguably in the history of cricket.

He is the only man so far able to unite all the inflated egos in a Pakistan team. Almost every player who reaches world class status in our team begins to fight the other world class players in the team, and it holds us back.

Imran reeled then all in and we made history. That too in dangerous Australia.

You can see how quickly the culture and team fell apart in the next few years after he really retired. Match fixing out the wazoo, new captain every series it felt like too. I’m rhyming rn… sheesh.
 
People don't understand the root cause of the problem.

The root cause of the problem is talent management. Pcb treats it as a joke. Do you have any idea what talent management is? And why its a multi billion dollar industry?

Talent management is responsible for shaping the attitude, the hunger, the passion, the strengths of a character and making sure all weaknesses are turned into strengths. It's not just about talent identification which is the only aspect pcb focuses on and even that I doubt since shan masood is captain now.

2017 was lucky because we had psl superstars but 2018 was a disaster because once those superstars lost form, PCB is clueless on how to get that form back or hunting for new talent. Pcb just plays Russian roulette which is Select a completly random list and hope for the best.

Selecting a random list will let you fluke tournaments here and their over a period of 50 years but will never let you be a dominant side.

If you look at India, look at KL Rahul, siraj, Shami, Shubman Gill and know how India manages talent. Gill failed until the semi final master class. If he was a pakiatani opener he'd get the fakhar treatment because pcb thinks Russian roulette is about finding shiny surface equipment like haider Ali but soon they realise that all that glitters isn't gold.

We have players saying things like

Their is no doubt that we are the no 1 team In the world.

I am not happy batting at no 5 I am no 4.


^^ This shows how weak the talent management is in pcb, they can't even fix their players attitude correctly.

A decade back the top run scorer in under 19 circuit for india was unmukt chand once hailed to be gautam ghambir's successor, after a few bad performances, he made such remarks and he never saw the light of day. Unlike sami aslam who cried to usa, bcci booted chand to usa.

That's the difference in the boards. No discipline, no clue on player management.

So yes Pakistan will fluke a tournament here and their maybe in the next 20 years we'll win 1 or 2, but that's entirely due to PCB Russian roulette luck, not due to actually understanding and creating a dominant team.
 
Pakistani players lacks game fitness 👍🏻
They may be world beaters in t20is, but playing ODIs requires different skills set..

Just look at semifinal game in Mumbai, where super fit players like Gill and Kohli got cramps. Just think, how fat Pakistani players would have played in such challenging conditions.?

Do you really think semifit Pakistani players can consistently challenge top teams in ODIs?

Pakistan is lucky not to face India is longer formats.. 👍🏻
 
Pakistani players lacks game fitness 👍🏻
They may be world beaters in t20is, but playing ODIs requires different skills set..

Just look at semifinal game in Mumbai, where super fit players like Gill and Kohli got cramps. Just think, how fat Pakistani players would have played in such challenging conditions.?

Do you really think semifit Pakistani players can consistently challenge top teams in ODIs?

Pakistan is lucky not to face India is longer formats.. 👍🏻
Careful bro, next time India refuses to come, you'll see more conspiracy theories and journalists will be like

India is scared to face the might of the Men in Green
 
I think the massive overreaction after defeats hurts us more than it helps. We know what our weaknesses are - primarily lack of wicket taking spin options. For all the talk this tournament about our batting, our batting ranked middle of the pack in almost all metrics but our bowling massively let us down - our bowler's economy was the second worst in the entire tournament.

We need overall better workload management to ensure our bowlers are healthy as Rauf, Shaheen Shah, and Naseem all racked up injuries of varying degrees in the lead up to the tournament and we need to invest in genuine wicket taking spin options. And if we can't find genuine wicket taking options then we need actual defensive spin bowling options for the middle over to choke up runs. Our lead spinner in India can never be Shadab Khan who is a T20 bowler at best and nowadays seems far more interested in his batting. Jarrod Kimber actually has a great video about Shadab Khan. He was a better ODI bowler early on in his career and his action and bowling has badly regressed since and now he's reduced to a T20 bowler. It's these kind of moments that we should be paying Shadab to get away from league cricket and spend some time with a biomechanics expert and bowling coach to see if we can fix his action and consistency. If not, then he should only be playing T20 cricket for us.

On the other hand though, 2027 World Cup will be on pitches that spinners will be useless anyway. We have good batting record on those pitches - check our recent series to South Africa. More than anything, we need to keep our fast bowling healthy and prepare a bench of fast bowlers in case something comes up. Also, we probably need to invest in a couple of very explosive batsmen to have around our accumulators for those flat pitches.
 
I think the massive overreaction after defeats hurts us more than it helps. We know what our weaknesses are - primarily lack of wicket taking spin options. For all the talk this tournament about our batting, our batting ranked middle of the pack in almost all metrics but our bowling massively let us down - our bowler's economy was the second worst in the entire tournament.

We need overall better workload management to ensure our bowlers are healthy as Rauf, Shaheen Shah, and Naseem all racked up injuries of varying degrees in the lead up to the tournament and we need to invest in genuine wicket taking spin options. And if we can't find genuine wicket taking options then we need actual defensive spin bowling options for the middle over to choke up runs. Our lead spinner in India can never be Shadab Khan who is a T20 bowler at best and nowadays seems far more interested in his batting. Jarrod Kimber actually has a great video about Shadab Khan. He was a better ODI bowler early on in his career and his action and bowling has badly regressed since and now he's reduced to a T20 bowler. It's these kind of moments that we should be paying Shadab to get away from league cricket and spend some time with a biomechanics expert and bowling coach to see if we can fix his action and consistency. If not, then he should only be playing T20 cricket for us.

On the other hand though, 2027 World Cup will be on pitches that spinners will be useless anyway. We have good batting record on those pitches - check our recent series to South Africa. More than anything, we need to keep our fast bowling healthy and prepare a bench of fast bowlers in case something comes up. Also, we probably need to invest in a couple of very explosive batsmen to have around our accumulators for those flat pitches.
This overreaction is caused by our fans and our teams who think they are bigger then they actually are.

Not everyone is an analyst or has educated insight. Their many fans who are casuals who live the sport and want nothing more then to watch their team, they rely on everything that a player tells them, and it is the players duty to honor the support that their fans give them.

When you have chacha saying their is no  Doubt that we are the no 1 team, and babar after no 1 rank making a celebration video for a historic moment fans will get excited.

However when this team fails and fans overreact it is the fault of the team for exciting and disappointing their fans. No one is disappointed by sa, or NZ or aus or anyone because they know where their team stands, and it's because SENA is realsitc and honest with their fans and form genuine connections, not delusional cloud 9 realities.

Name me one instance where Williamson or Kohli or rohit has said, their is no doubt I am no 1 in the world or I'm the no 1 team and made bcci yt videos?

The overreaction is justified. Pakistan team let their fans down not via their performance but via the false reality that they painted, even after losing games making akshay kumar videos enticing fans that some sort of miracle comeback would happen.

Pakiatan should have been humble, Aram sei uae mei kehlo so that A string sides will come as main players clearly don't wanna play in Pakistan, and Select players based of domestic amd not your nonsense agency.

@Sher Khan And I discussed a pakistani fast bowler who averages 18 in economy in domestic and psl and was a genuine wicket tsker and he's young. In the same tournament hasan Ali, Waseem Jr all these players played and didn't achieve anything remotely close to what he did. So why wasn't he selected and given a go?

What about saim ayub? The whole inexperienced excuse when Abdullah has 200x less list A experience? Abdullah was in the squad cause babar like his technique lol, it was a dosti yaari culture.

Fans have every right to be disappointed especially when the media is still lying to the fans by saying India is cheating or the team they selected was the best they could have sent when it's clearly not true.
 
Until Pakistan team management comes to a conclusion that the players performing in the domestic circuit should be given a chance, this team is going nowhere. The problem is still there. Changing captains and coaches won't matter when you are not rewarding the players for their performances in domestic. I am not up for rushing a young talent straight away in international format but they till need to be groomed.
 
Sorry, I cannot tolerate this sort of disrespect for our biggest legend in Pakistan cricket, and arguably in the history of cricket.

He is the only man so far able to unite all the inflated egos in a Pakistan team. Almost every player who reaches world class status in our team begins to fight the other world class players in the team, and it holds us back.

Imran reeled then all in and we made history. That too in dangerous Australia.

You can see how quickly the culture and team fell apart in the next few years after he really retired. Match fixing out the wazoo, new captain every series it felt like too. I’m rhyming rn… sheesh.
I am not disrespecting him, have always had huge respect for IK. I am just saying he was supported by PCB and govt, that's how he was able achieve this feat. Post that none of the captains have captained Pak side in 2 consecutive WCs, that explains how turbulent the board has been over the past 3 decades.
 
Until Pakistan team management comes to a conclusion that the players performing in the domestic circuit should be given a chance, this team is going nowhere. The problem is still there. Changing captains and coaches won't matter when you are not rewarding the players for their performances in domestic. I am not up for rushing a young talent straight away in international format but they till need to be groomed.
They need to come to a conclusion that cricket is not Russian roulette.

You don't pick randomly and hope for the best.
 
Until Pakistan team management comes to a conclusion that the players performing in the domestic circuit should be given a chance, this team is going nowhere. The problem is still there. Changing captains and coaches won't matter when you are not rewarding the players for their performances in domestic. I am not up for rushing a young talent straight away in international format but they till need to be groomed.
Before that domestic cricket has to be benchmarked with domestic structure of other teams. A guy like Khushdil is top performer in the domestic but was horrible at international level. So just selecting players basis domestic performance is not the solution.
 
Sorry, I cannot tolerate this sort of disrespect for our biggest legend in Pakistan cricket, and arguably in the history of cricket.

He is the only man so far able to unite all the inflated egos in a Pakistan team. Almost every player who reaches world class status in our team begins to fight the other world class players in the team, and it holds us back.

Imran reeled then all in and we made history. That too in dangerous Australia.

You can see how quickly the culture and team fell apart in the next few years after he really retired. Match fixing out the wazoo, new captain every series it felt like too. I’m rhyming rn… sheesh.
Arguably the history of cricket? Is that not disrespect to other cricketers?

Pointing and Dhoni are the greatest in terms of achievements. Pointing inherited a side but the mentality he instilled shaped a culture that is present to this day. Under his Reign, they weren't just United.

Read my X factors vs Accumulators thread. POINTING was the first captain to realise that an entire Team of X factors is needed so he turned everyone into an X factor.

The golden rule of your best batsmen playing at 3 was adopted by him and he earned that moniker of being the best in an already atg side along with hayden, Gilchrist etc.

Dhoni shaped the entire culture of Indian cricket. Before Dhoni came along, India was a neptisitc mess, Dhoni's own movie proves this when they were about to drop him despite having just a few games under his belt and selectors wanted other players instead of him.

Under Dhoni you cultivated players and this culture exists even today. Sanju sampson didn't even make the squad and was accept but kohli comforted him cause before Dhoni India had a pcb like set up. After Dhoni came they have the current set up where its all based of merit. Being dropped once doesn't mean being dropped forever and every player role is correctly identified, Rahul being the best example.

1992 imran Khan sqaud lost 4 games on the dot and needed massive luck to qualify. IK deserves credit for cultivating a squad based of merit and instilling a champions mindset once he was given semi final opportunity but he was beyond clueless in group stages initially and he got over confident. He pulled his socks up once Pakistan managed to get through.

IK is a good captain but he's not The Greatest Leader. Pointing and Dhoni are for literally creating an entire X factor 11 culture while Pakistan is still stuck on misbah's classic, accumulate and strike at the end.

If anything IK is at fault for adopting the take the game deep philosophy because his philosophy of taking the game deep is outdated and IK still believes in it by appointing babar captain. The dude is stubborn and didn't adjust with the times.

Dhoni, Pointing and Eoin Morgan adjusted with the times, so did Williamson. IK was stubborn and his take the game deep idea only worked in 1992 but quickly became outdated once 1996 Australia decided to adopt a new style while Pakistan was stuck in the past.
 
Who cares about worldcup final as long as we are number 1 team in icc ranking and babar is the number 1 batsmens in the world, and we have a number 1 bowling unit. Its better to play minnow teams and become number 1 than winning the world cup
 
I think with the current round robin format only consistent and quality sides can make it to finals. Pakistan can only manage to make it again with that rubbish quarter final format where 1-2 fluke wins can result to reach the knock out stage. And then you have just 3 wins to win the world cup.
 
I think the massive overreaction after defeats hurts us more than it helps. We know what our weaknesses are - primarily lack of wicket taking spin options. For all the talk this tournament about our batting, our batting ranked middle of the pack in almost all metrics but our bowling massively let us down - our bowler's economy was the second worst in the entire tournament.

We need overall better workload management to ensure our bowlers are healthy as Rauf, Shaheen Shah, and Naseem all racked up injuries of varying degrees in the lead up to the tournament and we need to invest in genuine wicket taking spin options. And if we can't find genuine wicket taking options then we need actual defensive spin bowling options for the middle over to choke up runs. Our lead spinner in India can never be Shadab Khan who is a T20 bowler at best and nowadays seems far more interested in his batting. Jarrod Kimber actually has a great video about Shadab Khan. He was a better ODI bowler early on in his career and his action and bowling has badly regressed since and now he's reduced to a T20 bowler. It's these kind of moments that we should be paying Shadab to get away from league cricket and spend some time with a biomechanics expert and bowling coach to see if we can fix his action and consistency. If not, then he should only be playing T20 cricket for us.

On the other hand though, 2027 World Cup will be on pitches that spinners will be useless anyway. We have good batting record on those pitches - check our recent series to South Africa. More than anything, we need to keep our fast bowling healthy and prepare a bench of fast bowlers in case something comes up. Also, we probably need to invest in a couple of very explosive batsmen to have around our accumulators for those flat pitches.
100%.
Small changes are needed to be more competitive and make SF regularly.
 
I think with the current round robin format only consistent and quality sides can make it to finals. Pakistan can only manage to make it again with that rubbish quarter final format where 1-2 fluke wins can result to reach the knock out stage. And then you have just 3 wins to win the world cup.
This is the actual reason. Format doesn't allow them to fluke their way to semi and final. You just need one other team to choke against some other team like SA did against NEtherlands. Boom. THey faced their favorite NZ. Out of nowhere Pak was in final.
 
I don't think Asian pitches suit Pakistan. They tend to do better in SENA (England particularly).

I expect them to do better in 2027 WC because Pakistani pacers should have a good time in South Africa.
 
I don't think Asian pitches suit Pakistan. They tend to do better in SENA (England particularly).

I expect them to do better in 2027 WC because Pakistani pacers should have a good time in South Africa.
lol 2019 happened in ENgland. THey got bounced out by West INdies.
 
I don't think Asian pitches suit Pakistan. They tend to do better in SENA (England particularly).

I expect them to do better in 2027 WC because Pakistani pacers should have a good time in South Africa.
Pakistan batsman are worst when playing on bouncy pitch. they can't Play short pitch bowling .
 
One game? Fluke can happen.

Pakistan beat England, NZ, and South Africa in that WC.

Pakistan won 2009 World T20 and 2017 CT (both were in England).
Not fluke. THey were clueless against bounce. THeir bowling was thrashed by ENgland in the series played before each time.
In that world cup Pakistan 4th in avge, 6th in Economy, 5th in strike rate. SO not exactly great bowling. You are thinking of Wasim Akram days. No more Amir. Shaheen has gone down significantly.
 
Seeing Australia’s epic come back this WC in Asia, can’t help but think of the 1987 WC in Asia where we were favorites and lost to Australia who went on to win the WC.

We had our opportunities in the next 12 years, and cashed in on a grand total of 1.

Now with the Pakistan cricket system in complete disarray, when do you, fellow Pakistanis, think we will feature in an ODI WC Semi final, final or win the whole friggin thing ever again?

Last time we made a semi final was more than 10 years ago.

We have gone 3 WCs back to back without making semi finals let alone finals or being champions. We made 1 semi final in 20 years.

Ofc we are still defending Champions of The Trophy since 2017. But it’s high time we get some more silverware of the original greatest prize of them all.


With the current skill levels, I don't see it happening any time soon.

I mean Pakistan could not make to semis in an English World Cup . It will be tougher everywhere else including in Asia

PAK desperately need pacers who can bowl those tight groupings upfront and a spinner who can land the ball consistently on a stumps hitting length .

Too much focus on trying to blast teams out with pace and movement .

Next World Cup is in South Africa and it will be a rough time for Pakistan. Beating depleted sides in SA is not the same as playing full strength teams in a World Cup.

Also, PAK needs to focus on white ball formats ..

I heard Atherton say on commentary that the next England tour of Pakistan was going to be cut from 3 Tests to 2 Tests..

This is a good decision.

PAK and other non Big 3 boards should look to play less Tests and more ODIs in whatever window is available .

As this World Cup has shown , even traditionally weaker teams like AFG can compete well in this format unlike in Tests.
 
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