Where does Stuart Broad rank amongst England's best-ever Test bowlers?

[Abdullah719]

Broad has now gone past Botham in the highest wicket-takers list for England. He is nearing 400 Test wickets and is only behind Anderson in the top-wicket takers list.

Where does he rank amongst the best English bowlers in Test cricket?

 

[shaz619]

1.Anderson
2.Broad


























Botham

 

[ExplicitAI]

He's definitely up there with the best bowlers that England have produced. One of those players that were deemed poster boys for their country and were tagged as an exciting young prospect and have fulfilled both of those promises. He's had a fulfilling career for England and there's more to come from him.

 

[Sachin136]

Behind Trueman, Botham pre 1985, Willis, Laker and Anderson.

 

[Bewal Express]

For me he disappears too often on flat wickets. On wickets with any juice he can be unplayable. Its a similar story with Jimmy.

 

[Robert]

Where does he rank amongst the best English bowlers in Test cricket?

The really top-liners were Trueman and Statham. I would put Larwood in the same league but he didn't play many tests due to politics.

Then Snow, Willis and Botham.

I would put Dilley, Fraser, Gough, Caddick and Hoggard in the same bracket as Anderson and Broad. But the latter two have benefitted from central contracts, cutting their workloads down so they have been able to stay fit for longer.

 

[James]

He's alright. Not brilliant.

You saw the worst and then the best of him in this match - on the second evening, a cocky and arrogant kid thinking he could serve up magic balls and bowl out the opposition like a bunch of skittles, but failing miserably - and on the third day, a superb bang-on couple of spells that helped England to a Test victory.

It was the story of his career, compressed into 24ish eventful hours: the adventures of an utterly hated, frequently useless, not too bright, often embarrassing (and very tall) spoilt blonde private schoolboy, but one also with the natural talent to be a great English bowler - and, when he fancies it, once or twice a year, he performs like an Akram-McGrath hybrid experiment on steroids.

So yeah. Decent player overall.
Jimmy has been the better and more committed servant.

 

[Varun]

Why does Anderson alone get the stick for needing clouds to succeed? Broad is no better:

 

[Robert]

Why does Anderson alone get the stick for needing clouds to succeed? Broad is no better:

Broad isn't a swing bowler so the cloud thing makes no sense. He puts it on an awkward length, gets a bit of bounce and cuts it a little both ways.

Of course English seamers will do well in England. But NZ is cloudy and Anderson has not done much there, while Broad did not pick up wickets in humid SL, yet both have done well in UAE under no cloud, and both have had a good series in Australia.

Cloudiness is a red herring. These two bowlers have gradually developed their skills and in the latter half of their careers have been effective in most places and most conditions.

 

[ads101]

It's funny, back in the day when he performed once in a blue moon, a bowling average of high 30s, was hyped to the moon. Now he's become consistent, he largely goes unnoticed now, hardly anyone speaks/raves about him anymore.

Very good bowler. Anderson's a bit better. I don't know where he'd stand in English history, but Anderson and Broad are the two best English pacers I've seen.

Both of them have performed in most conditions in the latter half of their career. Think people are a bit unfair to label them home bullies, that isn't the case anymore both of them improved immensely.

 

[R0H1T]

Broad isn't a swing bowler so the cloud thing makes no sense. He puts it on an awkward length, gets a bit of bounce and cuts it a little both ways.

Of course English seamers will do well in England. But NZ is cloudy and Anderson has not done much there, while Broad did not pick up wickets in humid SL, yet both have done well in UAE under no cloud, and both have had a good series in Australia.

Cloudiness is a red herring. These two bowlers have gradually developed their skills and in the latter half of their careers have been effective in most places and most conditions.

They haven't been consistently effective though, under non helpful conditions. Their output largely depending on how the opposition batters play them i.e. conservatively or attacking them.

Case in point ~ Aus 2013/14 & Ind 2016 where the opposition pacers outbowled them, sometimes massively in even less helpful conditions.

 

[Robert]

They haven't been consistently effective though, under non helpful conditions. Their output largely depending on how the opposition batters play them i.e. conservatively or attacking them.

Case in point ~ Aus 2013/14 & Ind 2016 where the opposition pacers outbowled them, sometimes massively in even less helpful conditions.

I never said they were Trueman and Statham. Just that this cloud business isn't accurate.

Regarding Australia - five times out of five, the Aussies were on the rack in their first innings, and five times their keeper got them into an OK position. Then Johnno and Rhino ran riot, the England batting folded, their bowlers had to go back on without enough rest and the Aussies piled up the runs. Anderson played the last two tests with a cracked rib, and Broad averaged 27 for the series - one of just two England players to enhance his reputation (Stokes was the other).

India has been a graveyard for English seamers, though Botham and Foster had some notable success. If helped them to have credible spinners to help. The English spin array in 2016 was hopeless so the two opening bowlers had to bowl too much. Broad did get one fivefer though.

 

[KhalidRafi]

For me he disappears too often on flat wickets. On wickets with any juice he can be unplayable. Its a similar story with Jimmy.

Both are home-track bullies. But Broad is better away

 

[MenInG]

Looks like he can fly too!

This picture from today (Day 1 of 1st Test vs SA)

 

[wrongun]

Broad has now gone past Botham in the highest wicket-takers list for England. He is nearing 400 Test wickets and is only behind Anderson in the top-wicket takers list.

Where does he rank amongst the best English bowlers in Test cricket?

I've got him in the 2nd rank, right alongside Anderson & Gough.

Top tier is Botham, Trueman, Willis & Laker if we are counting spinners.

A match winner at home & on rare occasions, away but overall not good enough away- actively poor too often- compared to the top bracket to belong there.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Good seam bowler. Thinking bowler. Bought wickets through accuracy. One of the few bowlers who got better and better. After 37 test he was averaging 36. Now he is averaging 28. Also he had many instances where he singlehandedly destroyed the opposition.

 

[therealAB]

1.Anderson
2.Broad


























Botham

Trueman, Statham, Snow, Willis, Bedser, Larwood etc

 

[barah_admi]

He is right up there alongside Jimmy, Trueman and Botham....maybe he surpasses them all except the great Anderson.

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Better than Anderson because he can actually bowl with the kookaburra.

 

[Ab Fan]

Will go past 500 wickets and probably retire as the second leading wicket taker for England only behind James Anderson and should definitely get past the 150 tests landmark.

An England great and relatively more reliable pick than Jimmy with the kookaburra.

 

[Robert]

I've got him in the 2nd rank, right alongside Anderson & Gough.

Top tier is Botham, Trueman, Willis & Laker if we are counting spinners.

A match winner at home & on rare occasions, away but overall not good enough away- actively poor too often- compared to the top bracket to belong there.

Third tier for me.

Trueman, Bedser, Statham at the top.

Then Snow and Willis second tier.

Then Botham, Dilley, Fraser, Gough, Caddick, Anderson and Broad. The latter two have enjoyed great longevity due to central contracts.

 

[MenInG]

England pace bowler Stuart Broad says he is "worried" about not being able to produce his best form in front of no fans against West Indies.

The three-Test series, which begins on 8 July, will be played without spectators because of coronavirus.

"If you put me in an Ashes game or a pre-season friendly, I know which one I'll perform better in," said Broad.

"I've spoken to our sports psychologist about creating a mindset where I can get my emotions up."

The Tests, postponed from June because of the pandemic, will be held in a bio-secure environment at Southampton and Old Trafford.

Broad, 34, said: "I perform at my best when the game is at its most exciting.

"I've got to make sure my emotions are where they need to be for a Test match. That's something I started working on in early June."

In taking 485 wickets in 138 Tests, Broad has become renowned for devastating spells that have turned matches in England's favour, particularly at crucial moments in Ashes series.

In addition to his famous 8-15 that helped bowl Australia out for 60 at Trent Bridge in 2015, there were series-winning hauls at The Oval in 2009 and Chester-le-Street in 2013.

"I thrive off the energy of something happening in the game or a bit of excitement, or with a big battle going on," said Broad.

"I also know that there are certain scenarios that bring the worst out of me as a cricketer, and that is when I feel the game is just floating along and there is nothing on it."

Broad joked that he may have to find motivation from a confrontation with a visiting batsman and risk the wrath of his father Chris, who is set to be match referee for the series after the International Cricket Council relaxed the need for non-neutral match officials because of current travel difficulties.

"Maybe I have to pick more of a battle with the opposition and bring my dad into things a bit more," said Broad.

With the England players currently living and training at the Southampton ground where the first Test will be played, Broad said he had received some advice from his mother.

"My mum said I should take myself back to when I was 12, when all I wanted to do was play cricket anywhere I could," he said.

"I have a coffee in the morning overlooking a Test match ground. If you'd have offered me that as a 12-year-old - minus the coffee - I'd have been buzzing.

"It is about being excited just to have the opportunity to play and have some fun. It gives you a bit of energy thinking like that.

"How many people would jump at the opportunity to have what we have? We shouldn't need anything else."

On Wednesday England will begin a three-day practice match among the players in the training group, before the squad for the first Test is named.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/53212404

 

[Justcrazy]

He is a among top 5 all time best Test bowlers in England. His strength is the bounce he gets , cuts the batsman into two.

 

[Ab Fan]

One of the greatest fast bowlers of all-time and best ever from England.

1.Stuart Broad
2.Fred Trueman
3.Sydney Barnes
4.Alec Bedser
5.Brian Statham
6.John Snow
7.Bob Willis
8.James Anderson
9. Ian Botham
10. Andrew Flintoff

 

[Robert]

I would say:

1. Fred Trueman
2. Sydney Barnes
3. Brian Statham
4. Bob Willis
5. John Snow
6. Sir Alec Bedser
7. Sir Ian Botham
8. Caddick / Fraser / Gough / Hoggard / Anderson / Broad

 

[Ab Fan]

I would say:

1. Fred Trueman
2. Sydney Barnes
3. Brian Statham
4. Bob Willis
5. John Snow
6. Sir Alec Bedser
7. Sir Ian Botham
8. Caddick / Fraser / Gough / Hoggard / Anderson / Broad

What about Neil Foster? Was he any good?

 

[Robert]

What about Neil Foster? Was he any good?

Imran rated him. He was tall, FM, cut it about like Broad. He got eleven in a match in India against a very powerful batting line. Then he got eight in an innings in a losing cause against Pakistan. Should have had a long partnership with Dilley. The trouble was that, like all England bowlers of his era he could not stay fit.

 

[therealAB]

1. Trueman
2. Statham
3. Larwood
4. Willis
5. Snow
6. Botham
7. Anderson
8. Bedser
9. Broad
10. Gough

Tyson, Tate close

 

[Robert]

1. Trueman
2. Statham
3. Larwood
4. Willis
5. Snow
6. Botham
7. Anderson
8. Bedser
9. Broad
10. Gough

Tyson, Tate close

Sir Alec travelled better than Jimmy though, had a good record in Australia.

 

[therealAB]

Sir Alec travelled better than Jimmy though, had a good record in Australia.

Just an oversight, def should be above Jimmy

 

[MenInG]

Stuart Broad could miss selection in a home Test for the first time in eight years as England selectors ponder their best pace attack for the resumption of Test cricket this week.

Broad, who is closing in on 500 Test wickets, concedes selection 'is out of my control' going into the first Test against the West Indies as England consider unleashing speedsters Jofra Archer and Mark Wood in the same XI for the first time.

After a long absence of Test cricket due to the COVID-19 pandemic, England have five fast bowlers in their 13-man squad for the first Test, with Jimmy Anderson and Chris Woakes joining Broad, Archer and Wood.

While Broad has been overlooked on away tours to the Windies and Sri Lanka in the past two years, he's played 51 consecutive Tests at home since he was rested for a rain-affected dead rubber in 2012.

Since the start of the 2009 northern summer, he's missed just three of England's 74 home Tests, rested on all three occasions.

He concedes having five top-quality seam bowlers fit and healthy at the start of a series – one of the few upsides of the COVID-19 lockdown – is unusual.

"One thing that is out of my control this week is selection," he wrote in The Daily Mail.

"My record over the past 12 months or so has been pretty good, I have not missed a home Test for eight years and I wouldn't want to be rested for the first match of the summer.

"Let's face it, I've rested for the past 12 weeks. Equally, I don't think I've ever gone into a Test summer with every bowler in the country fit."

Broad says Archer, who missed most of the recent tour of South Africa due to an elbow injury, is "100 per cent" in England’s best side after his eye-catching debut series against Australia 12 months ago.

And with Anderson fit again after suffering a rib injury in South Africa, and Wood coming off a career-best nine-wicket haul in the final Test against the Proteas, Broad concedes there's no obvious way for the selectors to go.

"The competition for places is extraordinary," he wrote.

"There is myself and Jimmy Anderson to consider — you would think that Jofra Archer is in the best team 100 per cent — then you have to remind yourself that Mark Wood bowled unbelievably in Johannesburg and Port Elizabeth earlier this year, and that Chris Woakes is a brilliant cricketer.

"It's an absolute nightmare."

Another option for England would be to overlook spinner Dom Bess and pick four frontline quicks to go with pace-bowling allrounder (and new captain) Ben Stokes, as they did for the fourth Test against the Proteas in Johannesburg six months ago.

Whichever fast bowlers do miss out on the first Test this week would be expected to get a chance at some point during the summer, with England to play six Tests in seven weeks – three against the Windies and three against Pakistan – as part of a truncated Test summer.

The first Test starts on Wednesday in Southampton.

England squad: Ben Stokes (c), James Anderson, Jofra Archer, Dominic Bess, Stuart Broad, Rory Burns, Jos Buttler (wk), Zak Crawley, Joe Denly, Ollie Pope, Dom Sibley, Chris Woakes, Mark Wood

West Indies Squad: Jason Holder (c), Jermaine Blackwood, Nkrumah Bonner, Kraigg Brathwaite, Shamarh Brooks, John Campbell, Roston Chase, Rahkeem Cornwall, Shane Dowrich (wk), Shannon Gabriel, Chemar Holder, Shai Hope, Alzarri Joseph, Raymon Reifer, Kemar Roach.

https://www.cricket.com.au/news/stu...ection-anderson-wood-archer-woakes/2020-07-06

 

[shaz619]

One of the greatest Test match winners for sure

 

[Ab Fan]

One of the greatest fast bowlers of all-time and best ever from England.

1.Stuart Broad
2.Fred Trueman
3.Sydney Barnes
4.Alec Bedser
5.Brian Statham
6.John Snow
7.Bob Willis
8.James Anderson
9. Ian Botham
10. Andrew Flintoff

This. Add Darren Gough, Caddick, Hoggard and Neil Foster in it.

 

[MenInG]

Former England pacer Darren Gough said he was “really surprised” to see Stuart Broad miss out of the opening Test against the West Indies despite the seasoned pacer standing up for the team in the absence of Jimmy Anderson in the past.

The host opted to go for Anderson, Mark Wood and Jofra Archer alongside stand-in captain Ben Stokes and spinner Dom Bess, leaving out Broad from the first Test which started here on Wednesday.

Broad, who is England’s second highest wicket-taker of all time with 485 scalps in the longest format of the game, last missed a home Test eight years ago when he was rested against West Indies in 2012.

“(I’m) really surprised,” Gough said on Sky Sports.

“Because when you talk about sticking with players, I thought with the Broad situation, he has stood up and been counted for England over the past few years, when Jimmy has been limping out of games with injury,” he added.

Gough said both the senior pacers in the side -- Anderson and Broad -- should have been included in the team.

“I would’ve played both Broad and Anderson in this game - I think they deserve that respect - and then I would’ve gone for one of Wood or Archer,” he said.

The 49-year-old, who featured in 58 Tests, 159 ODIs and two T20s for England, said if he had the option he would have rotated the trio of Anderson, Broad and Chris Woakes, leaving out just one of them in each game.

“In typical English conditions, the way I would’ve done it is, rotated Anderson, Broad and Woakes - always two out of the three - and then have one of Wood or Archer.”

“I think they saw, in St Lucia in the West Indies, the pace of Wood bowling against the West Indian batsmen, when he gets it right, he frightens them,” he added.

The series marked the return of international cricket after a hiatus caused by the COVID-19 pandemic.

The opening day of the Test was marred by rain and saw only 17.4 overs being bowled. England was 35/1 with Rory Burns and Joe Denly in the middle. Shannon Gabriel was the lone wicket-taker as he bowled Dominic Sibley for a duck.

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/cric...see-broad-miss-first-test/article32032806.ece

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Broad, Jimmy and willis are the best fast bowlers England have ever had.

 

[Bhaijaan]

One of their top 10 for sure, probably top 5 even.

Sadly he will always be remembered first for being the guy at the receiving end of Yuvraj's 6 sixes in an over which is kind of sad and unfair for a guy with nearly 500 test wickets

 

[Robert]

Broad, Jimmy and willis are the best fast bowlers England have ever had.

I would say Willis was top five, but Broad and Anderson are not in his league. Around his time they might have had 100-150 wickets each.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I would say Willis was top five, but Broad and Anderson are not in his league. Around his time they might have had 100-150 wickets each.

Willis was phenomenal.

One of the most terrifying run ups of any fast bowler ever.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

I would say Willis was top five, but Broad and Anderson are not in his league. Around his time they might have had 100-150 wickets each.

Sorry. But its a bit difficult to take your opinion seriously on this when you consider trundlers like Dilley and foster on par with Anderson and Broad . Not to mention foster had something like 9 kinee injuries just trying to take 90 odd test wickets.

 

[Ab Fan]

The greatest fast bowler of all-time to have come from England.

It is a very inspirational story for Stuart Broad. As a youngster, he was mocked and betrayed after getting ripped apart in Durban in 2007 but hardship and dedication has taken him a long way and very soon he will be on verge of breaking the test wickets record of legendary Glenn McGrath. If you are in your mid-20s and finding hardship in life with your goals, take this as inspiration.

The man who delivered two of the greatest spells of previous decade, i.e. 8-15 Vs Australia 2015 and 6-17 Vs South Africa 2016.

The man with two test hat-tricks to his name.

Arguably among the most stylish personalities to have come from England cricket with his flowing blonde hair and striking blue-eyes.

He is basically the modern era version of Malcolm Marshall and a huge inspiration to youths.

 

[sweep_shot]

Broad never looked intimidating but he was always skilled with the ball. Broad is like Justin Bieber of cricket but unlike Justin Bieber, he delivered well.

Broad may well end up as the best pacer of all time from England.

 

[Robert]

Sorry. But its a bit difficult to take your opinion seriously on this when you consider trundlers like Dilley and foster on par with Anderson and Broad . Not to mention foster had something like 9 kinee injuries just trying to take 90 odd test wickets.

It is difficult to take your opinion seriously if you think Dilley was a trundler. I watched him enough - he was faster than Willis. A proper express in 1980, still fast in 1989 when he got banned, and he had a really good outswinger. And a better average than Anderson and Broad.

Foster took eleven wickets in a match in India, which Anderson and Broad have not, and got an eightfer against Pakistan so there is no doubting his ability.

What you are not taking into consideration is the effect of central contracts. England quick bowlers in the eighties and nineties broke down every other test match due to the sheer CC workload. Anderson and Broad would have too. Both have gradually improved with time, but in the eighties would never have got the chance to improve due to a constant stream of injury.

 

[Robert]

The greatest fast bowler of all-time to have come from England.

It is a very inspirational story for Stuart Broad. As a youngster, he was mocked and betrayed after getting ripped apart in Durban in 2007 but hardship and dedication has taken him a long way and very soon he will be on verge of breaking the test wickets record of legendary Glenn McGrath. If you are in your mid-20s and finding hardship in life with your goals, take this as inspiration.

The man who delivered two of the greatest spells of previous decade, i.e. 8-15 Vs Australia 2015 and 6-17 Vs South Africa 2016.

The man with two test hat-tricks to his name.

Arguably among the most stylish personalities to have come from England cricket with his flowing blonde hair and striking blue-eyes.

He is basically the modern era version of Malcolm Marshall and a huge inspiration to youths.

Marshall was blindingly quick while Broad is a medium pacer. Marshall averaged 20, Broad 28. Marshall was lethal everywhere while Broad has a patchy overseas record. Marshall struck every 46 balls, Broad every 58.

If you want an English Marshall you have to go back to Fred Trueman.

 

[Robert]

Willis was phenomenal.

One of the most terrifying run ups of any fast bowler ever.

Always fast and accurate, got a lot of bounce and he could cut it about.

He did it in India too. They had made big spin tracks to try to nullify the England fast attack, but they overdid it and made the wickets so bad that Willis was helped not hindered.

England have not seen his like since.

 

[MenInG]

Seamer Stuart Broad has told Sky Sports he sought reassurances over his future after being dropped from England's first Test of the summer left him "frustrated, angry and gutted".

The 34-year-old. who has taken 485 wickets in 138 Tests, was edged out of this week's final XI as England opted for James Anderson, Jofra Archer and Mark Wood.

While he has not always been first choice overseas for the past couple of winters he had played the previous 51 home Tests, dating back to 2012 when he was rested in a dead rubber.

Having finished as the team's top wicket-taker in the 2019 Ashes and again in the previous series in South Africa, he did not take the news meekly when temporary captain Ben Stokes delivered the news.

"I found out about 6pm the night before the game. Stokesy told me just that they're going with extra pace in these conditions," said Broad in the Sky Sports Player Zone.

"I wanted clarifications on the future going forward and I was given pretty positive feedback going forward.

"I spoke to [national selector] Ed Smith last night and he said he's involved in picking the 13 and this was picked purely for this pitch. I'm not a particularly emotional person but I've found the last couple of days quite tough. To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement: you get disappointed if you drop your phone and break your screen.

"I've been frustrated, angry and gutted - because it's quite a hard decision to understand. I've probably bowled the best I've ever bowled in the last couple of years. I felt like it was my shirt having been in the team through the Ashes
and going to South Africa and winning there."

Broad acknowledged the unusually strong field of candidates for a place but believes his annoyance at being overlooked augurs well for his own desire to come back strong.

"We're in quite a unique position this summer: very rarely do you get all your bowlers fit like we've got at the minute and all your bowlers ready to go," he said.

"I felt like I deserved a spot in the team, like everyone else. Chris Woakes, Sam Curran were bowling really well and probably deserve to be in the XI too. So it is hard to take but also I'm quite pleased I feel frustrated and feel gutted and angry because if I didn't I'd have a different decision to make.

"I don't think I've got anything to prove - England know what I can do, the selectors know what I can do - and when I get that opportunity again you can bet I'll be on the money."

https://www.skysports.com/cricket/n...road-angry-and-frustrated-after-being-dropped

 

[MenInG]

England cricket coach Chris Silverwood refused to give any guarantees that Stuart Broad will be recalled for the second Test against the West Indies, saying Monday selection was still up for grabs.

Broad was dropped for the first Test of the series, which England lost in Southampton on Sunday, and gave an interview during the match in which he said he was “frustrated, angry and gutted.”

Gough: Buttler has two Test matches to save his career

The second Test starts in Manchester on Thursday and England could decide to shake up its pace attack to bring in Broad, who sits second on the country’s all-time wickets list in Tests on 485.

Silverwood was non-committal, though.

When asked whether Broad is in line to play, Silverwood said: “Nothing is a given in this team, as we have seen, and people will be playing for their spots. Everything will be considered.”

England went with Mark Wood, Jofra Archer and James Anderson as its pace bowlers in Southampton.

Wood only picked up two wickets across the two innings, perhaps making him the fall guy if Broad is to return. Alternatively, England may choose to rest Anderson, who was injury-hit last year and might not be risked to play three back-to-back Test matches.

The third Test starts July 24.

Stokes: I don't regret leaving Stuart Broad out

“We have one or two stiff bodies, as you can imagine,” Silverwood said. “I have been down to see the guys already but they all seem to have come through well.

“I mean, we will probably know more after training tomorrow. We will put them through their paces and see where they are at.”

England’s players will be tested for COVID-19 before making their way up from Southampton to Manchester on Monday.

England captain Joe Root, who missed the first Test following the birth of his second child, will link up with the squad in Manchester and will play in the second match.

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/cric...rwood-england-west-indies/article32069166.ece

 

[Ab Fan]

Delivers when mattered.

 

[Manunited18]

Sorry. But its a bit difficult to take your opinion seriously on this when you consider trundlers like Dilley and foster on par with Anderson and Broad . Not to mention foster had something like 9 kinee injuries just trying to take 90 odd test wickets.

Lol for you rating dilley as a trundler, a genuine fast bowler with a killer outswinger, I'd rate Graham dilley as quick as any in his prime at his time.

 

[Manunited18]

Marshall was blindingly quick while Broad is a medium pacer. Marshall averaged 20, Broad 28. Marshall was lethal everywhere while Broad has a patchy overseas record. Marshall struck every 46 balls, Broad every 58.

If you want an English Marshall you have to go back to Fred Trueman.

Very well put, I'd put a peak Darren gough just ahead of broad in the pecking order.

Top 3 England quicks at their best :

1.Fred Truman
2. Bob willis
3.sir Ian botham

 

[James]

I would already revisit my rather mean post earlier in the thread and say that he is world class.

Today might be another Broad special.

 

[Robert]

Very well put, I'd put a peak Darren gough just ahead of broad in the pecking order.

Top 3 England quicks at their best :

1.Fred Truman
2. Bob willis
3.sir Ian botham

Defo on Gough, our last proper all-conditions quick bowler. Beautiful action, and got reverse.

My England bottom six based on players I have watched....

Botham
Knott
Swann
Gough
Willis
Fraser

 

[MenInG]

England's Stuart Broad says he could play until the same age as long-time new-ball partner James Anderson.

Broad took three wickets in 14 balls on the fourth day to revive England's victory hopes in the second West Indies Test at Emirates Old Trafford.

The 34-year-old is second on England's all-time list of Test wicket-takers, behind 37-year-old Anderson.

"Why not try to emulate what Jimmy has done, play until his age and have that sort of success?" said Broad.

"I'm hungry. My fitness record is good. If I have that as a goal, when I set goals in my mind it makes me very hungry to achieve them."

Anderson, who played in the first Test but is being rested for the second, turns 38 on 30 July.

He has taken 587 Test wickets, including 129 since he was Broad's current age.

Broad, who took his wicket tally to 488 with 3-66 on Sunday, said: "Sometimes I get put into an older category than I am.

"Jimmy has taken those wickets since turning my age. Why can't I do the same?"

Broad was left out of the first-Test defeat in Southampton in favour of Anderson, Mark Wood and Jofra Archer.

At the time he said he was "angry, frustrated and gutted" to be omitted, but he returned in Manchester as England rotated their fast bowlers in a period when they will play six Test in seven weeks.

"It's great to be back in the side," said Broad, who made his Test debut in 2007. "That opportunity was always going to come, but you have the natural disappointment if you're not playing."

Broad's burst on the fourth evening ignited a match that looked to be heading for a draw.

In reply to England's 469-9 declared, West Indies were 242-4 and set to bat themselves into a position of safety.

But Broad claimed 3-1 and Chris Woakes took three wickets to dismiss the tourists for 287.

England moved to 37-2 by the close - a lead of 219 - and on Monday will push for a victory that would level the three-match series at 1-1.

"It is great have got ourselves in a position where we could win," Broad told BBC Test Match Special.

"We need 10 opportunities tomorrow and need to make the new ball count. If we could get West Indies 50-3 we will be in with a great shout.

"This is going to be a great Test match day tomorrow. It's really exciting."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/53467183

 

[Nikhil_cric]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLa2Sz0kSiI

Express pacer graham dilley at his fastest in 1980. Yeah probably bowling 155 ks there

 

[Manunited18]

Defo on Gough, our last proper all-conditions quick bowler. Beautiful action, and got reverse.

My England bottom six based on players I have watched....

Botham
Knott
Swann
Gough
Willis
Fraser

Gough my favourite quick, and yes a complete all conditions fast bowler who could bowl genuine quick spells with skill and heart, as well as being just as deadly on flat roads. Unfortunately fo goughie injuries took a toal; otherwise he could have easily got 350 test wickets.

 

[Bhaijaan]

English bowlers really seem to have found fountain of youth. Anderson and Broad should not be even playing today going by norms for fast bowlers. Theh shouldn't even be having played that many tests. How Anderson and Broad managed to play this long bring at the top of their game is quite ming boggling.

 

[Manunited18]

English bowlers really seem to have found fountain of youth. Anderson and Broad should not be even playing today going by norms for fast bowlers. Theh shouldn't even be having played that many tests. How Anderson and Broad managed to play this long bring at the top of their game is quite ming boggling.

Central contracts have really helped, both broad Andersons longevity been down to mainly them playing test cricket, they barely county cricket, no one day cricket, unlike yesteryears bowlers where they had to play test cricket and county cricket which took his toal on the bowlers

 

[Bhaijaan]

Central contracts have really helped, both broad Andersons longevity been down to mainly them playing test cricket, they barely county cricket, no one day cricket, unlike yesteryears bowlers where they had to play test cricket and county cricket which took his toal on the bowlers

That's ok but real credit to these two for holding on to their positions. It's not like England had dearth of bowling talent. Every now and then someone does come up like Bresnan, Finn, Sidebotton, Wood, Tremlett, Woakes, Archer etc etc but these two stil hold on. Amazing competitiveness too

 

[Ab Fan]

England's top 5 fast bowlers in last 50 years:-

Willis
Snow
Anderson
Broad
Botham

Some Gap

Darren "Reverse Swing came to me naturally" Gough

GAP

Rest

 

[Robert]

English bowlers really seem to have found fountain of youth. Anderson and Broad should not be even playing today going by norms for fast bowlers. Theh shouldn't even be having played that many tests. How Anderson and Broad managed to play this long bring at the top of their game is quite ming boggling.

Central contracts.

Had Dilley and Gough had central contracts they would have had 400+ test wickets too.

 

[Robert]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLa2Sz0kSiI

Express pacer graham dilley at his fastest in 1980. Yeah probably bowling 155 ks there

He looked distinctly rapid to me there. He was always quicker than Willis.

Botham seemed quicker than usual too.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

He looked distinctly rapid to me there. He was always quicker than Willis.

Botham seemed quicker than usual too.

Lol what? Botham was absolutely trundling.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I would say:

1. Fred Trueman
2. Sydney Barnes
3. Brian Statham
4. Bob Willis
5. John Snow
6. Sir Alec Bedser
7. Sir Ian Botham
8. Caddick / Fraser / Gough / Hoggard / Anderson / Broad

Quite surprised at this list Robert. I cant comment on many if the names but have seen many of the players you have grouped together at 8 play and I would not put players like Caddick, Fraser, Hoggard on the same level as Jimmy or Broad. Caddick was a personal favourite of mine but really was not much more than a decent bowler in a poor side. Hoggard would bowl with the new ball and then was useless, Fraser has only 170 odd test wickets.

Its doing Jimmy and Broad a great disservice by putting them in the same groupingas that bunch.

 

[Robert]

Quite surprised at this list Robert. I cant comment on many if the names but have seen many of the players you have grouped together at 8 play and I would not put players like Caddick, Fraser, Hoggard on the same level as Jimmy or Broad. Caddick was a personal favourite of mine but really was not much more than a decent bowler in a poor side. Hoggard would bowl with the new ball and then was useless, Fraser has only 170 odd test wickets.

Its doing Jimmy and Broad a great disservice by putting them in the same groupingas that bunch.

Remember that Nasser’s side beat WI, then Pakistan and a strong SL away, and Gough and Caddick were big factors in those wins. Caddick had an ability to bulldoze a batting line that we have not seen since.

Hoggard took wickets all over the world, which Anderson and Broad have not. When the ball didn’t swing he kept it tight for Harmison.

Fraser has two eightfers in WI against teams with Lara in them, while A&B are HTBs to an extent.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Caddick had an ability to bulldoze a batting line that we have not seen since.

That is mainly because of his distracting bowling action where he would pretend to do bhangra dance just before delivering a nasty inswinger.

 

[tyron_woodley]

best ever. Top 3.

 

[jeetu]

Away Record of English bowlers (min 75 wickets)
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GA Lohmann [/td][td]1887-1896 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]76 [/td][td]8.96 [/td][td]30.3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SF Barnes [/td][td]1901-1914 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]126 [/td][td]17.96 [/td][td]44.5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]ARC Fraser [/td][td]1990-1998 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]87 [/td][td]25.42 [/td][td]57.5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]FS Trueman [/td][td]1954-1963 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]78 [/td][td]26.08 [/td][td]62.6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]D Gough [/td][td]1994-2001 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]105 [/td][td]26.9 [/td][td]52.4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]W Voce [/td][td]1930-1947 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]86 [/td][td]27.15 [/td][td]61.3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RGD Willis [/td][td]1971-1984 [/td][td]49 [/td][td]149 [/td][td]27.2 [/td][td]61.9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Underwood [/td][td]1969-1982 [/td][td]44 [/td][td]152 [/td][td]27.36 [/td][td]78.2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JB Statham [/td][td]1951-1963 [/td][td]33 [/td][td]104 [/td][td]27.79 [/td][td]70.1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AW Greig [/td][td]1972-1977 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]28.09 [/td][td]63.5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IT Botham [/td][td]1978-1992 [/td][td]43 [/td][td]157 [/td][td]29.63 [/td][td]60.9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AR Caddick [/td][td]1994-2003 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]106 [/td][td]29.7 [/td][td]58.9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MJ Hoggard [/td][td]2001-2008 [/td][td]34 [/td][td]126 [/td][td]30.26 [/td][td]57.2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BA Stokes [/td][td]2013-2020 [/td][td]32 [/td][td]76 [/td][td]30.3 [/td][td]55.8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Flintoff [/td][td]1999-2009 [/td][td]38 [/td][td]110 [/td][td]30.6 [/td][td]64.4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DA Allen [/td][td]1960-1966 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]87 [/td][td]30.66 [/td][td]95.9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GP Swann [/td][td]2008-2013 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]122 [/td][td]31.5 [/td][td]64.1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SCJ Broad [/td][td]2007-2020 [/td][td]55 [/td][td]160 [/td][td]32.66 [/td][td]68.8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JM Anderson [/td][td]2003-2020 [/td][td]61 [/td][td]194 [/td][td]33.36 [/td][td]67.8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]FJ Titmus [/td][td]1962-1975 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]99 [/td][td]33.59 [/td][td]100.9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JE Emburey [/td][td]1978-1993 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]84 [/td][td]36.86 [/td][td]101.5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SJ Harmison [/td][td]2002-2009 [/td][td]30 [/td][td]89 [/td][td]37.12 [/td][td]71.3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AF Giles [/td][td]2000-2006 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]80 [/td][td]38.62 [/td][td]84.7 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
Surprising Stokes is ahead of both though he has played half the matches.

 

[Robert]

Away Record of English bowlers (min 75 wickets)
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Player [/td][td]Span [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Wkts [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GA Lohmann [/td][td]1887-1896 [/td][td]9 [/td][td]76 [/td][td]8.96 [/td][td]30.3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SF Barnes [/td][td]1901-1914 [/td][td]17 [/td][td]126 [/td][td]17.96 [/td][td]44.5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]ARC Fraser [/td][td]1990-1998 [/td][td]23 [/td][td]87 [/td][td]25.42 [/td][td]57.5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]FS Trueman [/td][td]1954-1963 [/td][td]20 [/td][td]78 [/td][td]26.08 [/td][td]62.6 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]D Gough [/td][td]1994-2001 [/td][td]26 [/td][td]105 [/td][td]26.9 [/td][td]52.4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]W Voce [/td][td]1930-1947 [/td][td]22 [/td][td]86 [/td][td]27.15 [/td][td]61.3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]RGD Willis [/td][td]1971-1984 [/td][td]49 [/td][td]149 [/td][td]27.2 [/td][td]61.9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DL Underwood [/td][td]1969-1982 [/td][td]44 [/td][td]152 [/td][td]27.36 [/td][td]78.2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JB Statham [/td][td]1951-1963 [/td][td]33 [/td][td]104 [/td][td]27.79 [/td][td]70.1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AW Greig [/td][td]1972-1977 [/td][td]27 [/td][td]82 [/td][td]28.09 [/td][td]63.5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]IT Botham [/td][td]1978-1992 [/td][td]43 [/td][td]157 [/td][td]29.63 [/td][td]60.9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AR Caddick [/td][td]1994-2003 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]106 [/td][td]29.7 [/td][td]58.9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]MJ Hoggard [/td][td]2001-2008 [/td][td]34 [/td][td]126 [/td][td]30.26 [/td][td]57.2 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]BA Stokes [/td][td]2013-2020 [/td][td]32 [/td][td]76 [/td][td]30.3 [/td][td]55.8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]A Flintoff [/td][td]1999-2009 [/td][td]38 [/td][td]110 [/td][td]30.6 [/td][td]64.4 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]DA Allen [/td][td]1960-1966 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]87 [/td][td]30.66 [/td][td]95.9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]GP Swann [/td][td]2008-2013 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]122 [/td][td]31.5 [/td][td]64.1 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SCJ Broad [/td][td]2007-2020 [/td][td]55 [/td][td]160 [/td][td]32.66 [/td][td]68.8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JM Anderson [/td][td]2003-2020 [/td][td]61 [/td][td]194 [/td][td]33.36 [/td][td]67.8 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]FJ Titmus [/td][td]1962-1975 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]99 [/td][td]33.59 [/td][td]100.9 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]JE Emburey [/td][td]1978-1993 [/td][td]31 [/td][td]84 [/td][td]36.86 [/td][td]101.5 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]SJ Harmison [/td][td]2002-2009 [/td][td]30 [/td][td]89 [/td][td]37.12 [/td][td]71.3 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]AF Giles [/td][td]2000-2006 [/td][td]29 [/td][td]80 [/td][td]38.62 [/td][td]84.7 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
s.

More evidence showing how much better Fraser and Gough were than their modern counterparts, taking four wickets per test instead of three, at better averages and much better strike rates.

Where is John Snow?

 

[Robert]

Ah, only 62 wickets is why, in twelve tests, average 20, s/r 48.

What a gun he was.

Just awkward to manage so didn’t get taken on tour. Imagine the partnership with Willis he could have had! An English Lillee and Thomson.

 

[Robert]

That is mainly because of his distracting bowling action where he would pretend to do bhangra dance just before delivering a nasty inswinger.

)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Wd-HU7dSYeQ" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Last Monetarist]

More evidence showing how much better Fraser and Gough were than their modern counterparts, taking four wickets per test instead of three, at better averages and much better strike rates.

Fraser's record is heavily skewed by the fact that he played most of those away matches on the low, cracked up wickets in the Caribbean where he averaged 20. His record in Australia was comparable to Broad and Anderson, while being utterly atrocious in South Africa. He never played a test in Asia either. More importantly, he averaged almost 30 at home. The tendency to disregard home records is a tad squalid.

 

[Robert]

Fraser's record is heavily skewed by the fact that he played most of those away matches on the low, cracked up wickets in the Caribbean where he averaged 20. His record in Australia was comparable to Broad and Anderson, while being utterly atrocious in South Africa. He never played a test in Asia either. More importantly, he averaged almost 30 at home. The tendency to disregard home records is a tad squalid.

I would always pick Fraser in England too. He brought control and slowed down the scoring. Calling him atrocious is hyperbole and insulting to a man with a huge heart.

Ask any West Indian what they think of the man and you’ll get glowing praise.

 

[Last Monetarist]

I would always pick Fraser in England too. He brought control and slowed down the scoring. Calling him atrocious is hyperbole and insulting to a man with a huge heart.

Ask any West Indian what they think of the man and you’ll get glowing praise.

He averaged 46 in South Africa, which was what I alluded to as atrocious, not doubting the hard work he put in. The bowlers that played during the 90s were half as effective or skillful as Anderson or Broad in England, that's sheer fact. I just feel that the snobbishness often displayed for modern cricketers can come across a bit annoying.

 

[Robert]

He averaged 46 in South Africa, which was what I alluded to as atrocious, not doubting the hard work he put in. The bowlers that played during the 90s were half as effective or skillful as Anderson or Broad in England, that's sheer fact. I just feel that the snobbishness often displayed for modern cricketers can come across a bit annoying.

What snobbishness? Anderson and Broad are fine bowlers. Just not the two best England bowlers ever as some on this thread would have us believe.

You can judge achievement like taking wickets at a certain average though. I fail to see how Fraser and Gough were “half as effective” when they had about the same average and in Gough’s case a markedly better strike rate. Gough did everything Anderson does, only quicker. Surely that makes him more “skilful” not less?

 

[Last Monetarist]

What snobbishness? Anderson and Broad are fine bowlers. Just not the two best England bowlers ever as some on this thread would have us believe.

You can judge achievement like taking wickets at a certain average though. I fail to see how Fraser and Gough were “half as effective” when they had about the same average and in Gough’s case a markedly better strike rate. Gough did everything Anderson does, only quicker. Surely that makes him more “skilful” not less?

Gough averaged 30 at home (as did Fraser incidentally), he couldn't bowl a consistent length to save his life. He was great away from home due to the fact that he is the best reverse swing bowler produced by England, but he was ordinary in England apart from one golden match at Headingley in 98, and the series against the West Indies in 2000.

Obviously, the role of central contracts cannot be understated in advancing the careers of Anderson and Broad, but anyone that has ever bothered to swing the ball in real life can appreciate what a master Jimmy Anderson is. No English bowler in the last three decades comes close.

When someone starts rating Caddick, Gough, Fraser above Anderson and Broad, it does come across as snobbery more than opinion underpinned by fundamental analysis.

I'd rank Anderson behind Trueman and Barnes in the pantheon of great English bowlers, but I can appreciate a great talent regardless of vintage.

 

[Mamoon]

It is ridiculous to rate Hoggard and Caddick above Anderson and Broad. If they played today, they would be well behind Anderson, Broad, Archer and perhaps Wood in the pecking order, competing with the likes of Woakes, Curran and Finn.

Gough was an excellent bowler but I would pick Broad by a nose. As far as comparison with Anderson is concerned, he was nowhere close to the man with 587 Test wickets as far as new ball skills are concerned.

The lack of respect and regard for what Anderson and Broad have done for England is distasteful.

 

[topspin]

Surprise suprise one of the two prominent members of the old era hype brigade rates Caddick and Hoggard above Anderson and Broad.

 

[therealAB]

It is ridiculous to rate Hoggard and Caddick above Anderson and Broad. If they played today, they would be well behind Anderson, Broad, Archer and perhaps Wood in the pecking order, competing with the likes of Woakes, Curran and Finn.

Gough was an excellent bowler but I would pick Broad by a nose. As far as comparison with Anderson is concerned, he was nowhere close to the man with 587 Test wickets as far as new ball skills are concerned.

The lack of respect and regard for what Anderson and Broad have done for England is distasteful.

This isn't a lack of respect, it is a legitimate discussion and acknowledgement of the fact that while these two bowlers are very good, they have poor away records, significantly worse than bowlers like Gough, who averages better than Anderson in 3 out of the five countries they both bowled in and who has a better away record

 

[Last Monetarist]

This isn't a lack of respect, it is a legitimate discussion and acknowledgement of the fact that while these two bowlers are very good, they have poor away records, significantly worse than bowlers like Gough, who averages better than Anderson in 3 out of the five countries they both bowled in and who has a better away record

I'm not stating that Anderson's away problems should be discounted, but at some point you do have to wonder why people go so far away the other side by completely disregarding his home record.

Sure, it is a legitimate discussion with Gough, but when someone lumps in Dilley, Caddick and Fraser with Anderson and Broad, it becomes farce at best equivalent to hypothetical cases where modern fans insult the likes of Trueman and Statham by comparing them with folks such as Mark Ealham or Ronnie Irani.

As far as Gough is concerned, he was great away from home, especially in Australia and the subcontinent, but he was inconsistent at home. In my view, Anderson's home record is so vastly superior that it becomes a moot point.

Ultimately, I also don't think bowlers with longevity should be tainted or debased by fans that assume bowlers with dubious injury records had better careers or ability. Fitness and longevity is very much a trait to be admired and recognized.

 

[MenInG]

Stuart Broad’s presence in the England playing XI made a massive difference during the second Test match against West Indies as the experienced medium pacer picked up six crucial wickets to help the hosts win the match and tie the series 1-1.

With England looking to rotate its fast bowlers, Broad’s absence from the first Test cost them the match. Broad’s expertise lies in being able to make the most of the seam and swing friendly conditions in England and the difference was visible when he came back into the playing XI for the second Test.

With James Anderson back in the team for the decider of the series, Broad will get to share the new ball with his long time partner for the first time in this series. The paceman is on the cusp of a huge record, which he would want to complete in this Test match.

Broad currently has 491 wickets to his name in 139 matches at an average of 28.38. He needs just four more wickets to emulate Anderson and become the second England bowler to pick up 500 Test wickets.

He will in fact become only the fourth paceman to breach the 500-wicket mark and the seventh bowler overall, if he reaches the milestone.

He will be the slowest to reach the 500-wicket milestone. Muttiah Muralitharan completed the feat in 87 matches followed by Anul Kumble (105) and Shane Warne (108).

Glenn McGrath picked up his 500th Test wicket in his 110th Test while Courtney Walsh and Anderson breached the mark in their 129th Test match respectively. Broad would have wanted to reach the mark earlier but he has had to share wickets with the equally prolific Anderson for the major part of his career.

Irrespective of the time taken, Broad will definitely be in august company once he reaches the milestone.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cric...est-bowlers/story-PtwmcIN03gCnBXB4Ix7KrN.html

 

[Robert]

It is ridiculous to rate Hoggard and Caddick above Anderson and Broad. If they played today, they would be well behind Anderson, Broad, Archer and perhaps Wood in the pecking order, competing with the likes of Woakes, Curran and Finn.

Gough was an excellent bowler but I would pick Broad by a nose. As far as comparison with Anderson is concerned, he was nowhere close to the man with 587 Test wickets as far as new ball skills are concerned.

The lack of respect and regard for what Anderson and Broad have done for England is distasteful.

You throw words like ridiculous around when presented by facts. Gough and even Hoggard have significantly better away records than Anderson and Broad. Better averages and better strike rates. It is also fact that Caddick took 5-17 and 5-19 against a West Indies side with Lara and Chanderpaul in it, and took a tenfer in Australia against the great Waugh side, something Anderson and Broad failed to do against significantly weaker Australia teams.

Are facts ridiculous?