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Which Hindu caste did your ancestors convert from to Islam?

Bhaijaan

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I’d like to ask this with genuine curiosity and a sincere desire to understand diverse perspectives — not to provoke, insult, or spark unnecessary debate.

I find it fascinating how cultural and historical backgrounds often shape certain patterns of behavior. For instance, some communities have traditionally emphasized higher education across generations, others have shown a natural affinity for business, politics, or even martial roles. These tendencies seem to emerge from long-standing social, economic, and cultural influences.

I’d love to hear your insights or reflections on this — especially from a historical or sociological point of view.
 
I’d like to ask this with genuine curiosity and a sincere desire to understand diverse perspectives — not to provoke, insult, or spark unnecessary debate.

I find it fascinating how cultural and historical backgrounds often shape certain patterns of behavior. For instance, some communities have traditionally emphasized higher education across generations, others have shown a natural affinity for business, politics, or even martial roles. These tendencies seem to emerge from long-standing social, economic, and cultural influences.

I’d love to hear your insights or reflections on this — especially from a historical or sociological point of view.
I have both oral and documented family history—from my paternal and maternal sides—clearly showing that we never converted from Hinduism. We also have gravesite records, property documents from both the British and Indian eras, and even DNA evidence to support our lineage. But ultimately, it doesn’t matter if we did convert from Hinduism. In Islam, what matters is not whether you’re born into the faith or embrace it later—what matters are your actions.

At some point, my paternal ancestors (yusufzai Pushtun from Afghanistan) must have converted from Buddhism, and my maternal (Arab) lineage converted from something. What’s certain is that our family migrated to India since at least the mid-1500s, and possibly maybe as far back as the late 1400s.

So, we've lived side by side with Hindus for 450–500 years without conflict. There was mutual respect, shared hardships, and deep-rooted coexistence. The real fractures began only after Independence—first under Nehru’s policies, then intensified during Indira’s era, and were ultimately weaponized by the BJP.

Yet, to this day, the local RSS continues to protect my great-grandfather’s mosque from attempts by the Maharashtra government to take it over—because the local Hindu community regards the site as sacred. They still draw water from the well beside the mosque, believing it brings blessings—using it for newborns and for healing the sick.

We come from a lineage of soldiers, farmers, and scholars—people who had no choice but to join the British, and later the Indian, military, police, and civil services. This path wasn’t out of loyalty, but necessity. First, the British, and then the Nehru government, confiscated our ancestral lands, leaving us with few options for survival and dignity.

We never seized land from Hindus—our family was granted it in recognition of acts of valor and bravery. In fact, the legacy of my great-grandfather’s service in the Indian Police was significant enough to inspire two Bollywood films.

Originally, our family tilled barren land and cultivated cotton—an effort that sustained us until the British first ruined local agriculture, then revived cotton farming in India after the slave uprisings in America disrupted their supply. When famine struck, the land held little value, so it was donated as waqf for a mosque. Ironically, that same land—once given away during hardship—is now protected by the local RSS, because the community still sees it as sacred and part of their shared history.

The British confiscated half of our land to build a railway line—not as a favor to India, but purely to serve their own interests. The railway was designed to transport cotton from our (Maharashtra) region to the port in Mumbai, where it was shipped to the mills in Manchester. It was a colonial supply chain, not a development project.

Many members from both sides of my family chose not to migrate to Pakistan during Partition, because India had been their home for centuries while some did...
 
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I have both oral and documented family history—from my paternal and maternal sides—clearly showing that we never converted from Hinduism. We also have gravesite records, property documents from both the British and Indian eras, and even DNA evidence to support our lineage. But ultimately, it doesn’t matter if we did convert from Hinduism. In Islam, what matters is not whether you’re born into the faith or embrace it later—what matters are your actions.

At some point, my paternal ancestors (yusufzai Pushtun from Afghanistan) must have converted from Buddhism, and my maternal (Arab) lineage converted from something. What’s certain is that our family migrated to India since at least the mid-1500s, and possibly maybe as far back as the late 1400s.

So, we've lived side by side with Hindus for 450–500 years without conflict. There was mutual respect, shared hardships, and deep-rooted coexistence. The real fractures began only after Independence—first under Nehru’s policies, then intensified during Indira’s era, and were ultimately weaponized by the BJP.

Yet, to this day, the local RSS continues to protect my great-grandfather’s mosque from attempts by the Maharashtra government to take it over—because the local Hindu community regards the site as sacred. They still draw water from the well beside the mosque, believing it brings blessings—using it for newborns and for healing the sick.

We come from a lineage of soldiers, farmers, and scholars—people who had no choice but to join the British, and later the Indian, military, police, and civil services. This path wasn’t out of loyalty, but necessity. First, the British, and then the Nehru government, confiscated our ancestral lands, leaving us with few options for survival and dignity.

We never seized land from Hindus—our family was granted it in recognition of acts of valor and bravery. In fact, the legacy of my great-grandfather’s service in the Indian Police was significant enough to inspire two Bollywood films.

Originally, our family tilled barren land and cultivated cotton—an effort that sustained us until the British first ruined local agriculture, then revived cotton farming in India after the slave uprisings in America disrupted their supply. When famine struck, the land held little value, so it was donated as waqf for a mosque. Ironically, that same land—once given away during hardship—is now protected by the local RSS, because the community still sees it as sacred and part of their shared history.

The British confiscated half of our land to build a railway line—not as a favor to India, but purely to serve their own interests. The railway was designed to transport cotton from our (Maharashtra) region to the port in Mumbai, where it was shipped to the mills in Manchester. It was a colonial supply chain, not a development project.

Many members from both sides of my family chose not to migrate to Pakistan during Partition, because India had been their home for centuries while some did...

Interesting read.
Did your family stay in India for a while after independence. It seemed like from your comments. Maybe you migrated later. There is famous TV host in Pakistan Tabish something I think his family migrated to Pakistan not too long ago. Probably in 80s or 90s something.
 
Former PCB Chief Murhoom Shehryar Khan hailed from a royal family in Pre Partition Bharat. His father, Nawab Muhammad Sarwar Ali Khan, was the ruler of the former princely state of Kurwai, while his mother, Princess Begum Abida Sultan, was the eldest daughter of the last ruling Nawab of Bhopal, Haji-Hafiz Sir Muhammad Nawab Hamidullah Khan.

Shahryar Khan’s ancestry traces back to the royal family of Bhopal, where his forebears had emigrated from Afghanistan in the early 18th century . His maternal lineage included prominent figures such as Sultan Jahan Begum and Shah Jahan Begum, who were among the last Begums of Bhopal.

Former Indian captain and the Nawab of Pataudi, Mansoor Ali Khan “Tiger Pataudi” was his cousin. Saif Ali Khan is his nephew.
 
Anyone converted from Sikhism?

Although Sikhism also is an offshoot of Hinduism but many Sikh families in Pakistan over the years seem to have converted to Islam.
 
Interesting read.
Did your family stay in India for a while after independence. It seemed like from your comments. Maybe you migrated later. There is famous TV host in Pakistan Tabish something I think his family migrated to Pakistan not too long ago. Probably in 80s or 90s something.
Overwhelming majority never migrated.

You have to understand the psyche of Pashtuns, they came to India with the Mughuls and gave blood and sweat to India for centuries so they considered it a "affront" to migrate to Pakistan. Not only they didn't migrate they considered it offensive to leave India. ...Agree or disagree but that was their stance.
 
Overwhelming majority never migrated.

You have to understand the psyche of Pashtuns, they came to India with the Mughuls and gave blood and sweat to India for centuries so they considered it a "affront" to migrate to Pakistan. Not only they didn't migrate they considered it offensive to leave India. ...Agree or disagree but that was their stance.

Irfan Pathan and all.
In Delhi there are still many Pathan families. They’re very nice people. Better from central Indian state people. No offense to anyone.
 
Also there must be many cases where there was no conversion but your lineage might have had Hindu grand grand mothers and all.
 
I remember you sharing before. How many generations ago was that.

Punjabi Brahmin community I guess.
I'm not sure of the generations or how long but it is not something recent, based on my grand father sharing stories of his grand fathers grandather as muslims but not sure how far back the chain goes. The DNA test indicated Rajasthan, which is plausible given we are Punjabis.

I remember my grandfather mentioning this origin at some point, but we just thought he was pulling our leg, so the fact that the DNA tests confirmed it was quite a surprise, although the test was taken after his death, so we never got the chance to tell him he was correct. We are Rajput caste, but the history of the subcontinent is so fluid and dynamic that there is a lot of mixing, DNA test is probably more accurate than caste label.

There are some theories that lower caste Hindu converts are those communities that are now considered lower caste in Pakistan.

Personally I do not believe in any form of caste or social hierarchy beyond a very casual academic interest, but despite the difference in religion and nationality, I still have support for Lord Shardul Thakur for this reason alone :yk
 
None, they came and conquered the Hindus. :kp
My paternal ancestors were Yusufzai Pashtuns who came to India with the Mughals; my maternal ancestors were Arabs who migrated during the Mongol invasions. They became village leaders (Sarpanch) for generations until the Nehru government confiscated their land and turned it into a steel mill. Local Hindus continued to venerate the site until the 1970s, honoring the family’s kindness and leadership.

During a famine, my paternal great-grandfather donated a sweet-water well—rare in that saline land—for the public good and established a mosque on the site as waqf. To this day, local Hindus revere the well, and the local RSS protects the mosque out of respect for that legacy.

For centuries, Hindus and Muslims lived together in relative harmony. But modern Hindutva—born from a colonial-era inferiority complex and inflated by pop culture—has distorted that history. Some of our ancestors mistakenly believed that shared soil and coexistence would preserve unity. In truth, the relationship should have been rooted in Islamic principles of justice and integrity—not just in nostalgia or geography.

My ancestors not only didn’t migrate but staunchly opposed “Pakistan” based on some stupid affiliation with “soil of India” instead of “Islam, my great grandparents died negating “Pakistan”…

Many ancestors made colossal mistakes in dealing with Hindus when they put Islam aside for which millions are paying the price, today. Shah Waliullah (also Pushtun from Afghanistan) wrote about lack of “Dawah” to Hindus extensively and centuries later Muslims paid the price. Hindus (practicing Hinduism) are not inherently bad people. Colossal blunder by generations of Muslims (like my ancestors) in India, just like what happened in Andalusia. Today, the Indian Hindus think of “Dawah” as force conversion which it isn’t, it sets ideological barriers in the mind that “Muslims and Hindus” are different people even if they share the same land.

In my opinion, it is difficult to understand India and Hinduism without reading Shah Waliullah and his diagnosis of the ills of the Mughuls.
 
I'm not sure of the generations or how long but it is not something recent, based on my grand father sharing stories of his grand fathers grandather as muslims but not sure how far back the chain goes. The DNA test indicated Rajasthan, which is plausible given we are Punjabis.

I remember my grandfather mentioning this origin at some point, but we just thought he was pulling our leg, so the fact that the DNA tests confirmed it was quite a surprise, although the test was taken after his death, so we never got the chance to tell him he was correct. We are Rajput caste, but the history of the subcontinent is so fluid and dynamic that there is a lot of mixing, DNA test is probably more accurate than caste label.

There are some theories that lower caste Hindu converts are those communities that are now considered lower caste in Pakistan.

Personally I do not believe in any form of caste or social hierarchy beyond a very casual academic interest, but despite the difference in religion and nationality, I still have support for Lord Shardul Thakur for this reason alone :yk

In Haridwar, which is a sacred ancient city for Hindus in northern India, certain families of Brahmin priests known as Pandas have been maintaining handwritten genealogical records of Hindu families for centuries.

It’s quite fascinating actually. I wonder if something like this was being maintained in other nations like they used to in our country.

They call these records Panda Vahis and they are meticulously organized based on family name, place of origin, and lineage.

Basically whenever families visit Haridwar for religious purposes such as performing last rites, immersing ashes in the Ganga, or attending a pilgrimage they often meet their family’s designated Panda, who updates the record with new births, deaths, marriages, and other life events. So like when I visited our Panda last time I was in Haridwar to immerse ashes of my late father I visited our family Panda and he pulled up our records in front of my own eyes. Apparently it was my father who had last visited and updated the records with that guy’s father and now it was me talking to his son. Imagine how surreal that is.

In my case i could trace back 7 generations. In many cases, these Vahis trace lineages could go back 20 or more generations too depending on continuity of peoples travels to pilgrimages.

Unfortunately the younger generation today doesn’t have time for this and the continuity is breaking.
 
In Haridwar, which is a sacred ancient city for Hindus in northern India, certain families of Brahmin priests known as Pandas have been maintaining handwritten genealogical records of Hindu families for centuries.

It’s quite fascinating actually. I wonder if something like this was being maintained in other nations like they used to in our country.

They call these records Panda Vahis and they are meticulously organized based on family name, place of origin, and lineage.

Basically whenever families visit Haridwar for religious purposes such as performing last rites, immersing ashes in the Ganga, or attending a pilgrimage they often meet their family’s designated Panda, who updates the record with new births, deaths, marriages, and other life events. So like when I visited our Panda last time I was in Haridwar to immerse ashes of my late father I visited our family Panda and he pulled up our records in front of my own eyes. Apparently it was my father who had last visited and updated the records with that guy’s father and now it was me talking to his son. Imagine how surreal that is.

In my case i could trace back 7 generations. In many cases, these Vahis trace lineages could go back 20 or more generations too depending on continuity of peoples travels to pilgrimages.

Unfortunately the younger generation today doesn’t have time for this and the continuity is breaking.
From the POV of an Abrahamic religion follower is it quite a weird thought experiment.


My own religious view and world view is immersed in what Prophets of God ( may Allah bless them and be pleased with them) did, I can recount tales of battles of the Sahabas, however while those battles were ongoing my ancestors may have been conducting a hindu religious ceremony completely oblivious to the concurrent ongoings in a land far away that their son many generations later will obssess over and live his life by.


Study of geneology and family tree is important for a human being. when I feel distant from Hindus I can step back and wonder if those texts were perhaps shaped by my ancestors. It can also keep one grounded and humble.
 
My paternal ancestors were Yusufzai Pashtuns who came to India with the Mughals; my maternal ancestors were Arabs who migrated during the Mongol invasions. They became village leaders (Sarpanch) for generations until the Nehru government confiscated their land and turned it into a steel mill. Local Hindus continued to venerate the site until the 1970s, honoring the family’s kindness and leadership.

During a famine, my paternal great-grandfather donated a sweet-water well—rare in that saline land—for the public good and established a mosque on the site as waqf. To this day, local Hindus revere the well, and the local RSS protects the mosque out of respect for that legacy.

For centuries, Hindus and Muslims lived together in relative harmony. But modern Hindutva—born from a colonial-era inferiority complex and inflated by pop culture—has distorted that history. Some of our ancestors mistakenly believed that shared soil and coexistence would preserve unity. In truth, the relationship should have been rooted in Islamic principles of justice and integrity—not just in nostalgia or geography.

My ancestors not only didn’t migrate but staunchly opposed “Pakistan” based on some stupid affiliation with “soil of India” instead of “Islam, my great grandparents died negating “Pakistan”…

Many ancestors made colossal mistakes in dealing with Hindus when they put Islam aside for which millions are paying the price, today. Shah Waliullah (also Pushtun from Afghanistan) wrote about lack of “Dawah” to Hindus extensively and centuries later Muslims paid the price. Hindus (practicing Hinduism) are not inherently bad people. Colossal blunder by generations of Muslims (like my ancestors) in India, just like what happened in Andalusia. Today, the Indian Hindus think of “Dawah” as force conversion which it isn’t, it sets ideological barriers in the mind that “Muslims and Hindus” are different people even if they share the same land.

In my opinion, it is difficult to understand India and Hinduism without reading Shah Waliullah and his diagnosis of the ills of the Mughuls.

Fascinating , I'll read this book when I have time.
 
I don't know but I done A Y dna test(paternal linage) and my Y dna is R-Z93.
 
Modern Hinduism is most likely less than 1200 years old. So I'm not sure how OP assumes every Muslim converted from Hinduism. Their ancestors could've been Buddhists or some other dead religion or some local tradition that later got assimilated into Hinduism.
 
minhas rajput, my dna tests show matrilinial migrations from southern arabia a few thousand years ago, my patrilineal dna has been in the central asia, northern indian regions for perhaps more than 50,000 years. there were tales of us having a south indian ancestor too, my dna results had malayali, somali, and vietnamese traces. my ancestors were farmer landowners for at least the past 300 years, and they were muslim during the times of those records.

if you want the cultural norms of being a rajput, i once brought up the topic of selling the familial land in pakistan and my dad swiftly retorted "zameen ma hoti hai, ma ko kaun bechta hai", but generally tempers and egos are common, as is the idea of ghairat and reverence for martial prowess, a lot of military men in my family before my generation.

a lot of pakistanis claim foreign origins, most of these claims are pretty flimsy, vast majority of Pakistanis are real indians, i.e. the long-term inhabitants of the Indus, given the importance of the river and the cultural and historical significance of this part of the world, i think this is something pakistanis should be proud to own.
 
Modern Hinduism is most likely less than 1200 years old. So I'm not sure how OP assumes every Muslim converted from Hinduism. Their ancestors could've been Buddhists or some other dead religion or some local tradition that later got assimilated into Hinduism.

I didn’t claim that all Muslims in this continent converted from Hinduism only. Why do you seem triggered.
 
I have noticed Pakistanis are more curious about DNA lineage tests compared to Indians in general.
 
I have noticed Pakistanis are more curious about DNA lineage tests compared to Indians in general.
the only reason i did mine was cos my granny had bright blue eyes, and i made a comment about my ancestors getting frisky with the brits in front of my dad and he got a bit annoyed, i thought if i can prove it, it would be a hilarious i told u so moment. alas he was right, ~85% nortern indian dna.
 
None, Pashtun so probably Persia? (I don’t even know)

It’s not important to our daily lives, religion is a clearer more underlining marker.
 
Chaudhary Raja Jatt from Kashmir.

I am not really into it but one of my cousins who has done research of the greater family tells our ancestors were from the royal family in Kashmir area. He is so much into it that he also knows our sub-category of jatts, namely pakhreel. I personally just stick to Jatt if I am asked, otherwise we hardly talk about this, only when it comes to marriage, there the family is still strict.

The important thing is that we are Muslims, Alhamdulillah, the biggest gift in life. Rest I don’t emphasize much to be honest.
 
And the title is misleading. I am fully aware of what OP quietly try to do under disguise of asking ‘genuine’ question.

Jatt, for instance is not a cast per se, but a community like Pashtuns and Gujjars. And originates from Central Asia, around Kazakhstan area, with people of the Jatt ethnic origin showing the highest percentage of the R1a DNA marker, as well as over 20% NE European DNA, a figure higher than any other ethnic group in India.
 
From my interactions with Muslims, most of them don't care what their ancestors were or what religion they converted from. They are just happy with their Muslim identity.​
 
From my interactions with Muslims, most of them don't care what their ancestors were or what religion they converted from. They are just happy with their Muslim identity.​
I agree with you till an extent. I look at this way: First ever human, Prophet Adam (pbuh) believed in One God only. Later on some people lost the straight path. And for my ancestors becoming Muslims ( I really don’t know what religion they had before that) is like getting back to our roots, how it all started: monotheism.
 
Does it really matter? LOL.

Only thing that matters is the conversion to the truth (Islam).
id argue it does to some extent, if you understand your own history then you can argue with the powers which try to sell you a narrative of a different history. this has happened to pakistan in the past, and its also the grounds on which pakistan broke, i.e. the imposition of one all pervasive identity which ignored cultural, communal, linguistic and historical sensitivities.
 
From my interactions with Muslims, most of them don't care what their ancestors were or what religion they converted from. They are just happy with their Muslim identity.​
Many Upper Caste converts do carry their old titles. The lower caste ones obviously hide it.
 
Many Upper Caste converts do carry their old titles. The lower caste ones obviously hide it.

Past caste is not in the equation/consideration. It is not a source of pride for any true Muslim. Past caste (whether upper or lower) is a source of shame.

Thankfully my ancestor converted somewhere down the line.
 
id argue it does to some extent, if you understand your own history then you can argue with the powers which try to sell you a narrative of a different history. this has happened to pakistan in the past, and its also the grounds on which pakistan broke, i.e. the imposition of one all pervasive identity which ignored cultural, communal, linguistic and historical sensitivities.

I think breaking of Pakistan happened due to economic and political reasons (uneven distribution of wealth, 1970 election, Bhola cyclone response, Indian interference etc.). It didn't have much to do with culture I believe.

Most Bangladeshis are religious conservative Muslims just like most Pakistanis are religious conservative Muslims.

Anyway, we have come a long way. Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are now on good terms. Alhamdulillah.
 
I have a lot to say on this topic as someone who’s entire DNA make up is 100% without shirk. Alhamdullilah.

Will post soon.
 
Past caste is not in the equation/consideration. It is not a source of pride for any true Muslim. Past caste (whether upper or lower) is a source of shame.

Thankfully my ancestor converted somewhere down the line.
Does it really matter? LOL.

Only thing that matters is the conversion to the truth (Islam).

It does to an extent, you are probably saying that because you are a Bengali and studying DNA makeup of you guys is not as interesting as someone from North India or Pakistan on a Pakistani forum. Same goes for rest of Indians, as majority of these regions have pretty much remained same.
 
It does to an extent, you are probably saying that because you are a Bengali and studying DNA makeup of you guys is not as interesting as someone from North India or Pakistan on a Pakistani forum. Same goes for rest of Indians, as majority of these regions have pretty much remained same.

I am saying it as a Muslim. Not as a Bengali.

Caste is a Hindu concept. It has no place in any Muslim identity. I am not aware of any desi Muslim who feels pride in caste.

LOL. Who determines what is interesting and what is not? You?
 
I am saying it as a Muslim. Not as a Bengali.

Caste is a Hindu concept. It has no place in any Muslim identity. I am not aware of any desi Muslim who feels pride in caste.

LOL. Who determines what is interesting and what is not? You?

But this thread is not on religious lines.

Only purpose is record keeping and tracing your ancestral roots.

Yes me in this case, as I have many things in common with Pakistanis. Whereas Bengalis and people outside of North India do not share much with Pakistanis.

I was simply replying to your 'Does it really matter?', might not be to you but there are curious people on both sides of the IndoPak border.
 
But this thread is not on religious lines.

Only purpose is record keeping and tracing your ancestral roots.

Yes me in this case, as I have many things in common with Pakistanis. Whereas Bengalis and people outside of North India do not share much with Pakistanis.

I was simply replying to your 'Does it really matter?', might not be to you but there are curious people on both sides of the IndoPak border.

I see.

I think Bhaijan opened this thread on a religious line based on his track record (maybe to troll). He made some similar threads in the past.
 
A lot of us who have Arab ancestry ultimately descend from Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him because the modern day Arab (Arabs were of 3 types, 2 of which went extinct) is a descendant of his son Prophet Ismael (peace be upon him) and the Arab subtype of Jurhum, a tribe which hailed from Yemen. Prophet Ismael married a woman of Jurhum and that gave way to the final sub type of Arabs amongst whom were the Quraysh and ofc Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

But I say all this to preface why ancestry as a whole in terms of “converting” to Islam is irrelevant.

Islam is not a new phenomenon.

It has existed at least since Prophet Adam PBUH was sent to earth, and every prophet and messenger after him came with the same message, whether Arabic speaking or not (Prophet Ibrahim PBUH was not even Arab), which is to submit to God alone.

Many, many of the Prophets before Prophet Ibrahim weren’t Arab either.

Every time man loses his way and starts associating partners to God or start inventing and corrupting the message of God, a messenger or prophet was sent to bring man back to the straight path, ending with Prophet Muhammad PBUH.

Islam is not a race or ancestry based faith.

It is the default setting for all mankind and creation. Has nothing to do with ancestry and at which point conversion happened on the family tree. Because everyone’s common ancestor was on Tawheed (true monotheism), then the later gens got misguided, then a messenger came, then they came back to Tawheed, then few gens later more misguidance etc. Ebb and flow toward and away from the truth in many cases.

If it was race or ancestry based then Prophet Ibrahim PBUH wouldn’t have been chosen as one of the most dearest to God ever, because his dad was a chief priest for a pagan religion.

Same with Prophet Muhammad PBUH whose father and grandfather were both on the pagan Arab religion containing idols. (Shocker to some Muslims, but this is true, go read authenticated Islamic history) and said father and grandfather both died as pagans.

Now if the best of all creation, leader of all prophets Rasullulah Mohammad peace and blessings be upon him had a grandfather, father and others in his uncles and family tree etc who were pagans, then who are we to be ashamed of our own identity in admitting that some of our ancestors may very well have been pagans?

For them, their deeds, for us, is ours.

We do not hate them. Prophet Ibrahim loved his dad even though he had Prophet Ibrahim PBUH thrown in a fire and was an idolator, Prophet Muhammad PBUH loved his grandfather and cried so much at his passing, same with his uncle Abu Talib who died on paganism out of the same misplaced loyalty we see today because his father was a pagan and he didn’t want to be seen “losing face” as the elder of the tribe and leaving the faith of his “forefathers” (when literally one of his earliest forefathers was on Tawheed).

Prophet Noah loved his son who he tried to save from God’s punishment but the boy wouldn’t listen and come to safety.

So my friends on Hinduism or whatever faith you may be, if what’s keeping you from exploring Islam is some misplaced loyalty to your ancestors, know that they did not create you, and they are a people long gone. If you are genuine about seeking the truth, then you must let go of holding tightly to things like loyalty to forefathers’ faith.

The best of mankind who were the prophets, defied blood ties of those relatives who tried to hold them back from realizing who God truly is.

Because coming to that realizing and then submitting to God is the single most important thing you will ever accomplish in life, everything else you will leave behind once life ends. This last paragraph especially may trigger some, but my duty is to do my best to convey the truth, whether you resonate with it is not up to me.

Take care.
 
I have a lot to say on this topic as someone who’s entire DNA make up is 100% without shirk. Alhamdullilah.

Will post soon.
Apologies for this tongue in cheek comment, no disrespect intended. Tensions have been high on this forum for weeks so I was trying to be laid back.

The above in-depth post right above this one is how I really feel.

All the best.
 
But this thread is not on religious lines.

Only purpose is record keeping and tracing your ancestral roots.

Yes me in this case, as I have many things in common with Pakistanis. Whereas Bengalis and people outside of North India do not share much with Pakistanis.

I was simply replying to your 'Does it really matter?', might not be to you but there are curious people on both sides of the IndoPak border.

You are right about that.
People on this forum know that i do not insult religion or communities despite my aggressive comments on political topics.

Like i shared earlier, the whole Haridwar thing was a surreal experience for me, updating my lineage with our Panda, knowing last time it was my father sitting with his father, this continuity of generation and culture was a fascinating thought for me and I made a vow to not break that continuity. Hopefully one day my children will visit the same place and update our records. Although now i have digitally recorded it too.
 
Brahmin converts are extremely rare and i believe those who did might have done it because they were convinced by the other ideology rather than by sword. Brahmins have historically been the most protected community in the subcontinent. Also because they carried the responsibility of keeping and propagating Hindu knowledge itself, their fall would always mean the original empire itself had completely fallen.
 
LOL.... so Hindu thinks that all muslims converted from Hinduism??? Is that what the op is implying??

Like,, who cares about it..
 
Apologies for this tongue in cheek comment, no disrespect intended. Tensions have been high on this forum for weeks so I was trying to be laid back.

The above in-depth post right above this one is how I really feel.

All the best.
Have to re-clarify because I don’t want to go against my own faith:

I am shirk free, but I did not mean to phrase it in the above way.

Ok, carry on 👍
 
LOL.... so Hindu thinks that all muslims converted from Hinduism??? Is that what the op is implying??

Like,, who cares about it..

No that’s not what im implying.

If people converted from other religions like Buddhism, Sikhism, Zoroastrian etc they can mention their story also.
 
The founder of Pakistan Mohammad Ali Jinnah’s family is widely believed to have belonged to the Lohana caste, a Hindu trading (Bania/Vaishya) caste from Gujarat, before converting to Islam.

Jinnah’s grandfather, Premjibhai Meghji, was a Hindu from the Lohana caste, which traditionally engaged in commerce and trade.

The family converted to Islam, likely Ismaili Shia Islam, during the 19th century. Later in life, Jinnah himself aligned more with Sunni Islam for political reasons, though he was secular in practice.

After conversion, the family adopted the surname “Jinnah”, derived from the Gujarati word “jina”, meaning “small trader” or “merchant”.

The Lohanas are a prominent mercantile community originally from Gujarat and Sindh.

Many Lohanas converted to Islam over the centuries, especially during the periods of Muslim rule in Sindh, and became part of communities like the Khojas (followers of the Aga Khan).

Some of these converted Lohanas retained many of their cultural and linguistic practices, even after conversion.
 
Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s family were originally Rajput Hindus from Rajasthan who converted to Islam during Aurangzeb’s rule in the 17th century.

The conversion was political and strategic, allowing the family to rise under Mughal patronage. The Bhuttos later settled in Sindh, becoming a feudal elite.

Pervez Musharraf’s family was Muslim by Musharraf’s time, but there’s evidence his ancestors were Kayasthas, a Hindu administrative caste in Uttar Pradesh.

Kayasthas often converted to Islam during Mughal rule while retaining literacy and administrative roles.
 
Brahmin converts are extremely rare and i believe those who did might have done it because they were convinced by the other ideology rather than by sword. Brahmins have historically been the most protected community in the subcontinent. Also because they carried the responsibility of keeping and propagating Hindu knowledge itself, their fall would always mean the original empire itself had completely fallen.
It is a myth propogated by modern Hindus that only lower castes converted in numbers. In the north of India conversion was common amongst other castes.

South situation may have been different.
 
It is a myth propogated by modern Hindus that only lower castes converted in numbers. In the north of India conversion was common amongst other castes.

South situation may have been different.

There many politically motivated conversions.
But Brahmin conversions have been the rarest for obvious reasons.
 
I've heard many Jatts say that jatts are outside the caste system as they are relatively new to the subcontinent, and brahmins didn't consider them a caste, Can any brahmin confirm this?
 
I've heard many Jatts say that jatts are outside the caste system as they are relatively new to the subcontinent, and brahmins didn't consider them a caste, Can any brahmin confirm this?

The evolution of Jatt community occurred after the ancient texts were written where Brahmins categorized society in 4 traditional castes (Brahmin (Education), Kshatriya (Governance), Vaishya (Trade), Shudra (Services).

What happened was that Jatts evolved as a community which were into Agriculture by profession (Vaishya) but also looked at themselves as a warrior community (Kshatriya). Hence they did not fit into one of the 4 ancient categorisations. Hence a new Jaati came to being in the North-Western parts of Ancient India encompassing areas of modern day Pakistan, Indian Punjab, Haryana etc.

Also the Vaishya caste (Bania, Agarwal, Maheshwaris etc) evolved into merchants and traders who established residence in cities rather than countryside as traditional farmers.
 
Chauhan Rajputs from Rajasthan.
Bro...you are a Rajput descent and still 24*7 bashing Hindus?

Imagine what your ancestors must be thinking from heaven. Rajput's are one of the bravest souls.
 
The evolution of Jatt community occurred after the ancient texts were written where Brahmins categorized society in 4 traditional castes (Brahmin (Education), Kshatriya (Governance), Vaishya (Trade), Shudra (Services).

What happened was that Jatts evolved as a community which were into Agriculture by profession (Vaishya) but also looked at themselves as a warrior community (Kshatriya). Hence they did not fit into one of the 4 ancient categorisations. Hence a new Jaati came to being in the North-Western parts of Ancient India encompassing areas of modern day Pakistan, Indian Punjab, Haryana etc.

Also the Vaishya caste (Bania, Agarwal, Maheshwaris etc) evolved into merchants and traders who established residence in cities rather than countryside as traditional farmers.
This is wrong. Jats are the original peasants of Punjab and surrounding areas, their rise is distinctly linked to militarism in Sikh religion especially with the later rise of Ranjit Singh. This is just a point of discussion and not to put anyone down.
 
This is wrong. Jats are the original peasants of Punjab and surrounding areas, their rise is distinctly linked to militarism in Sikh religion especially with the later rise of Ranjit Singh. This is just a point of discussion and not to put anyone down.

To reduce the evolution of the Jatt community solely to the rise of Sikh militarism and Ranjit Singh is historically limiting. Jatts were a distinct agrarian and semi-martial community long before Sikhism emerged. Their presence in the northwestern Indian subcontinent — including modern-day Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan, and Sindh is well documented, with many scholars tracing their roots to ancient pastoral and farming clans that existed outside the rigid boundaries of the four-varna system laid out in early Hindu texts.

The varna framework was a theoretical ideal, but in practice, it never fully encompassed the complexity of society especially in frontier regions like Punjab. Jatts, as landowning peasants with a strong sense of autonomy and self-defense, didn't neatly align with Vaishya (who moved toward trade) or Kshatriya (who were traditionally from ruling lineages). Their dual identity as agriculturists and warriors evolved over centuries not just in the Sikh period. Sikhism may have channelled and amplified their martial role, but it didn’t create it.
 
I have noticed Pakistanis are more curious about DNA lineage tests compared to Indians in general.
I was thinking about this and based on my limited understanding of Hinduism concept of bloodline and heritage doesn't seem relevant at all to Hinduism.

What does it matter who your grandfather is if his soul was reincarnated and he could now actually be a water buffalo or even reborn as your next door neighbour? If you are a low caste then isn't your goal in life to do good things such that you are reborn as a better caste so what's the point in understanding lineage when your goal is to escape it


Again this is based on a perhaps flimsy understanding of Hinduism but heritage does not really seem important in this context.
 
If you are a low caste then isn't your goal in life to do good things such that you are reborn as a better caste so what's the point in understanding lineage when your goal is to escape it
No.

The ultimate goal is for the soul to be totally liberated and never take a physical form, in order to achieve this the soul must have no karmic debts....
 
To reduce the evolution of the Jatt community solely to the rise of Sikh militarism and Ranjit Singh is historically limiting. Jatts were a distinct agrarian and semi-martial community long before Sikhism emerged. Their presence in the northwestern Indian subcontinent — including modern-day Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan, and Sindh is well documented, with many scholars tracing their roots to ancient pastoral and farming clans that existed outside the rigid boundaries of the four-varna system laid out in early Hindu texts.

The varna framework was a theoretical ideal, but in practice, it never fully encompassed the complexity of society especially in frontier regions like Punjab. Jatts, as landowning peasants with a strong sense of autonomy and self-defense, didn't neatly align with Vaishya (who moved toward trade) or Kshatriya (who were traditionally from ruling lineages). Their dual identity as agriculturists and warriors evolved over centuries not just in the Sikh period. Sikhism may have channelled and amplified their martial role, but it didn’t create it.
This is post Sikhism and especially Ranjit Singh. The indoctrination of being a martial race has been ongoing ever since.

Landowners are not usually majority of a population, it is usually the peasants, i.e you need more people to work the land and over time they become the majority.. I would estimate that at least half of the population in Pakistan Punjab is Jat.
 
This is post Sikhism and especially Ranjit Singh. The indoctrination of being a martial race has been ongoing ever since.

Landowners are not usually majority of a population, it is usually the peasants, i.e you need more people to work the land and over time they become the majority.. I would estimate that at least half of the population in Pakistan Punjab is Jat.

I see your point, but it still oversimplifies the origins and identity of the Jatt community. The assumption that the Jatt martial identity was solely a product of post-Sikhism developments like Ranjit Singh’s reign overlooks centuries of pre-Sikh history. References to Jatt-like agrarian groups exist in ancient records which is also why Muslim Jatt groups also exist who were not completely influenced by Sikh militancy but were already similar in nature due to historic roots being similar in origin.

Not all peasants were Jatts, and not all Jatts were simple peasants. Jatts often held land not just worked it which in an agrarian economy meant real socio-political influence. This is precisely why they didn’t slot neatly into the Shudra category either, and certainly not Vaishya once trade urbanized.

As for Punjab's demographics yes, Jatts form a significant portion, especially in rural Punjab (both Indian and Pakistani sides). But again, numbers alone don’t define origin or historical trajectory. To reduce a complex, multi-century socio-cultural evolution to "post-Sikh indoctrination" is not only historically inaccurate but ignores the broader Indic context in which the Jatt identity emerged. Let's respect the scale of their evolution both pre- and post-Sikhism instead of confining it to one political chapter.
 
No.

The ultimate goal is for the soul to be totally liberated and never take a physical form, in order to achieve this the soul must have no karmic debts....

This is correct.
Deadly seems to be viewing caste as a fixed, material identity but in the spiritual context of Sanatan Dharma, the caste system is not the end goal, nor is it a spiritual ladder.

As you rightly said, the true aim is moksha i.e., liberation from the cycle of birth and death. One’s external identity in a given birth, including caste, gender, or status, is incidental. It’s the inner purification and dissolution of karma that matters. Dharma is not bound to jati; it's how you align your actions with higher truth. So, understanding lineage may help us culturally or socially, but spiritually, the journey is beyond caste, it’s about transcendence.

This is the crux of Sanatani belief system.
 
No.

The ultimate goal is for the soul to be totally liberated and never take a physical form, in order to achieve this the soul must have no karmic debts....
Can you achieve liberation directly from being an untouchable or do you have to go up the ranks?

Regardless of this as you have said, the physical form isn't too important, so it may explain why blood tests and DNA tests are not as interesting to majority of Indians as claimed by @Bhaijaan
 
I was thinking about this and based on my limited understanding of Hinduism concept of bloodline and heritage doesn't seem relevant at all to Hinduism.

What does it matter who your grandfather is if his soul was reincarnated and he could now actually be a water buffalo or even reborn as your next door neighbour? If you are a low caste then isn't your goal in life to do good things such that you are reborn as a better caste so what's the point in understanding lineage when your goal is to escape it


Again this is based on a perhaps flimsy understanding of Hinduism but heritage does not really seem important in this context.

You're conflating two distinct aspects of Sanatan Dharma. Staying rooted in one’s lineage or heritage is primarily a cultural value, it's about honoring continuity and respecting where we come from.

However, the spiritual journey in Hinduism is deeply personal and inward-looking. It transcends caste, status, or material roles. A great example is Gautam Buddha who was born a Hindu prince yet renounced worldly comforts in pursuit of spiritual truth.

The inner quest is universal and free from social constructs.
 
You're conflating two distinct aspects of Sanatan Dharma. Staying rooted in one’s lineage or heritage is primarily a cultural value, it's about honoring continuity and respecting where we come from.

However, the spiritual journey in Hinduism is deeply personal and inward-looking. It transcends caste, status, or material roles. A great example is Gautam Buddha who was born a Hindu prince yet renounced worldly comforts in pursuit of spiritual truth.

The inner quest is universal and free from social constructs.
Yes the bolded is perhaps what I am not grasping correctly - there doesn't seem to be a need to honour continuity when the goal is to break it and escape it.

Aanyway I as just thinking our loud based on your question of why it may be more common in Pakistan than India. Let's not divert an interesting thread down this rabbit hole.
 
Can you achieve liberation directly from being an untouchable or do you have to go up the ranks?

Regardless of this as you have said, the physical form isn't too important, so it may explain why blood tests and DNA tests are not as interesting to majority of Indians as claimed by @Bhaijaan

Untouchability is a later social distortion, not a Vedic or spiritual mandate. True Sanatan Dharma as rooted in the Vedas and Upanishads is inclusive, spiritual, and centered on Aatma (Soul).

Hinduism evolved over 5000 years with many politically motivated society controlling aspects added later on. Original Sanatan emphasizes liberation, not control over masses.
 
Can you achieve liberation directly from being an untouchable or do you have to go up the ranks?

Ofcourse you can brother, hierarchy, ranks etc are all human constructs, the soul is energy it doesn't can achieve liberation from the material/physical world by have no karmic debts.

It's what the soul desires, ultimate form of happiness for the soul is to never be part of the materialistic world which me and you are now in.
 
Yes the bolded is perhaps what I am not grasping correctly - there doesn't seem to be a need to honour continuity when the goal is to break it and escape it.

Aanyway I as just thinking our loud based on your question of why it may be more common in Pakistan than India. Let's not divert an interesting thread down this rabbit hole.

In Hinduism, Body and Aatma (soul) are seen separately.

Continuity of lineage is the continuity of bodily rebirth cycle.

Liberation of Aatma however (mukti / moksha) is about allowing the soul to free itself from the rebirth cycle and mix with the divine.
 
I see your point, but it still oversimplifies the origins and identity of the Jatt community. The assumption that the Jatt martial identity was solely a product of post-Sikhism developments like Ranjit Singh’s reign overlooks centuries of pre-Sikh history. References to Jatt-like agrarian groups exist in ancient records which is also why Muslim Jatt groups also exist who were not completely influenced by Sikh militancy but were already similar in nature due to historic roots being similar in origin.

Not all peasants were Jatts, and not all Jatts were simple peasants. Jatts often held land not just worked it which in an agrarian economy meant real socio-political influence. This is precisely why they didn’t slot neatly into the Shudra category either, and certainly not Vaishya once trade urbanized.

As for Punjab's demographics yes, Jatts form a significant portion, especially in rural Punjab (both Indian and Pakistani sides). But again, numbers alone don’t define origin or historical trajectory. To reduce a complex, multi-century socio-cultural evolution to "post-Sikh indoctrination" is not only historically inaccurate but ignores the broader Indic context in which the Jatt identity emerged. Let's respect the scale of their evolution both pre- and post-Sikhism instead of confining it to one political chapter.
I am pointing out that what you read now is indoctrination post Sikh militarism. You have to take a step back and try to take a slightly objective view.

Take the surname Singh (Lion/Warrior) which is a Rajput surname. As Sikh militarism became the dominant narrative and as an act of emancipation and defiance, it was given to every Sikh male and likewise with the surname Kaur, meaning princess to every female. Basically saying to the adherents, "Look you are now as good as the Rajputs as the males are now all lions/warriors and all females princesses".

Don't get me wrong, it served a great purpose in not just the emancipation of the peasants but more importantly like Islam brought the concept of equality to its followers.
 
Bro...you are a Rajput descent and still 24*7 bashing Hindus?

Imagine what your ancestors must be thinking from heaven. Rajput's are one of the bravest souls.
Please understand the difference between Hindus and Hindutva. I have never bashed Hindus or any religion, because there’s no need to.

But I will always call out religious extremism, whether it’s ISIS, Zionists, Hindutva, the KKK, Nazis, or the EDL.

Anyone who believes in living in a multicultural, multi religious society should do the same.
 
Brahmin converts are extremely rare and i believe those who did might have done it because they were convinced by the other ideology rather than by sword. Brahmins have historically been the most protected community in the subcontinent. Also because they carried the responsibility of keeping and propagating Hindu knowledge itself, their fall would always mean the original empire itself had completely fallen.
A good Brahmin convert (Omar) in our community passed away in UAE in a tragic accident and may God have Mercy on his sole (Ameen). Besides him, the 22 year old I recently talked about is also Brahmin and a South India (Doctor) is also Brahmin (daughter of a Pundit), her case is all over Indian Media so don't want to reveal too much for fear of safety.

2 teenage Brahmin Sisters are inquiring about Islam and who knows...

These are whom I personally know, other converts to Islam I don't know and not talked about their caste. What I would say is that in my personal orbit these are all South Indian Brahmins, don't know what this implies and majority of them don't speak Hindi.

Also stories on Social Media, just 1 google search reveals:





I haven't watched these videos
 
LOL.... so Hindu thinks that all muslims converted from Hinduism??? Is that what the op is implying??

Like,, who cares about it..
Oh yes, the classic 'which caste did your ancestors convert from?'. As if history began with one religion and everyone else just logged in later. :misbah :inti
 
Keep digging, buddy. At this rate, you will find dinosaurs and still won't find a point. :misbah :inti

What is your story.

Open to share? I promise we are all respectful here in this thread. Already reported a few posts that weren’t in the right spirit
 
Any baniya, Aggarwal Muslims?

Famous merchant communities
 
Oh yes, the classic 'which caste did your ancestors convert from?'. As if history began with one religion and everyone else just logged in later. :misbah :inti
It is a fair question though. Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) came much later than other ancient religions. Infact Islam is 1400 years old where as proto Hinduism was followed in areas of Indian subcontinent since 2500 BC. So it is highly likely than most Muslim's and Christians of these regions came from Hinduism unless their ancestors were directly from Middle east or Rome (which is very unlikely as one can make out from genetic appearance).

However, these discussions are meaningless today and people can practice whatever religion the like.
 
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