IronShield
Tape Ball Regular
- Joined
- May 12, 2025
- Runs
- 518
Sheikhs are notoriously tight fisted, so you may have something there
-
Contact the PP Team
Which Hindu caste did your ancestors convert from to Islam?
- Thread starter Bhaijaan
- Start date
Khans - Rajput, Gujjar converts. It was a title bestowed to them by their Turkic and Mughal overlords for their bravery in battle fields.
Syeds - Brahmin converts
Ansari - Backward and OBC castes
Shaikh, Siddiqui - Baniya and other business community converts
No particular surname - Dalits.
Syeds - Brahmin converts
Ansari - Backward and OBC castes
Shaikh, Siddiqui - Baniya and other business community converts
No particular surname - Dalits.
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2015
- Runs
- 1,822
- Post of the Week
- 2
Absolutely not true!
I know that you don't have a long attention span so will just ask 1 question:
Please tell me if Sir Syed Ahmed Khan was a Brahmin convert or a Rajput or Gujjar convert? And provide evidence of your assertion.
Its a general rule of thumb. You can never prove anyone's background in India. Everyone is mixed in India. However many like to claim they have foreign ancestry which is very cute.
India has Mulayam Singh Yadav. He is a Yadav with a Singh in his title. Anyone can put a title in their name.
Stewie
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2008
- Runs
- 15,780
There is no way to be sure if all our ancestors were converts but there was a massive influx of invaders/conquerors from the west who moved in east and settled down. Over the years, there were plenty of inter-marriages, etc. Im sure nobody can claim to be 100% sure there is no mixture in their lineage so the question of this thread is really pointless.
IronShield
Tape Ball Regular
- Joined
- May 12, 2025
- Runs
- 518
Gujjars are not Khans. They are from cattle and sheep/goat herding community and moreover, they were not renowned for any fighting.
Syeds by definition are not Brahmin converts. They are meant to have a direct lineage to Prohpet Muhammad SA.
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2010
- Runs
- 29,280
- Post of the Week
- 2
This is a bit off the mark
Stewie
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2008
- Runs
- 15,780
Khan is not a caste. Its an ethnicity, a tribal Pashtun people.
The concept of caste has its origin in one's profession. So these are two totally different conceptans and should not be mixed.
The concept of caste has its origin in one's profession. So these are two totally different conceptans and should not be mixed.
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2015
- Runs
- 1,822
- Post of the Week
- 2
Question:
Please tell me if Sir Syed Ahmed Khan was a Brahmin convert or a Rajput or Gujjar convert? And provide evidence of your assertion.
Response:
Counter Question:
Give me the source and background of "general rule of thumb"?
It is also a Mughul and then British title but largely yes its ethnicity. @Champ_Pal has a history of inventing things...
Stewie
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2008
- Runs
- 15,780
Not a bit, like him and his track record its just flat out "WRONG".
This is what happens when you form a habit of believing lies and disinformation.
Stewie
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2008
- Runs
- 15,780
Partially correct.
Khan is an ethnicity and not a caste. The title is pronounced Khaa, with a silent N or noon ghunna (if you know what it means). I think that could be the one you are referring to. But the last name Khan is definitely a pasthun identity and for ages used as a last name regardless of their social stature.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
Shoaib Akhtar, Waqar Younis are Gujjars?
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
Any Pakistanis with South Indian ancestors?
ElRaja
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2010
- Runs
- 10,348
not hindu bashing, but i think more than half of the recipients for nishan-e-haiders are rajput, considering Rajputs pbly make up maybe 5% to 10% of Pakistanis that's a staggering overrepresentation. rajputs in my historical experience tend to love a scrap and are very hot headed, its the administration and politics they cant do, otherwise they might have had empires too, rather than kingdoms squabbling and killing amongst each other.
ElRaja
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2010
- Runs
- 10,348
i do apparently, malayali according to dna tests, but we had one hyderabi deccan ancestor according to family tradition long time ago. Talking of invaders, despite looking genetically ambiguous im only 10 to 12% "generally central asian". They won't be able to refine these categories properly until they get a lot more desi dna. the most common non indian dna ive seen amongst pakistanis is persian, like 15 to 20% in some instances, ive rarely ever seen arab dna.
maverick85
Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2016
- Runs
- 262
Rajas in AJK also use Khan as a surname
Raja Sehns Pal Khan
Raja Sehns Pal Khan was the grandson of Raja Mangarpal and he established the City of Sehnsa which is now one of the largest towns in the Pakistan side of Kashmir known as Azad Kashir (AJK). Raja Sehns Pal, the grandson of Raja Mangar Pal, was the first Mangral to convert to Islam and was given...
sweep_shot
ODI Captain
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Runs
- 46,368
Exactly.
There were many intermarriages during those days.
Even in Bangladesh, many Bangladeshis have Persian/Muhajir/other blood. For example, Athar Ali Khan has a muhajir background (originally from Bihar). I am guessing it is the same for many Pakistani and Indian Muslims.
Another question is does any Muslim care what his ancestor's caste was? LOL. It is completely irrelevant now.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
My personal opinion, but I think every Muslim in the subcontinent must do Pind daan at least once in his life out of respect for ancestors.
maverick85
Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2016
- Runs
- 262
Alhamdulillah, out of the jahaliat.
"O humankind! We have created you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another. The noblest of you in God's sight is the one who is most righteous."
maverick85
Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2016
- Runs
- 262
..."In summary, "Pind Daan" is a Hindu ritual offering to ancestors, while the Karni Mata temple in India venerates rats as reincarnated ancestors, a separate but related practice involving animal reverence. "
Yer alright fella ...
sweep_shot
ODI Captain
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Runs
- 46,368
maverick85
Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2016
- Runs
- 262
Another well known example is boxer Amir Khan from Rawalpindi of the potohar janjua clan. Definitely not pronounced "khaa with silent N"...
ElRaja
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2010
- Runs
- 10,348
some of my ancestors put khan after there name cos they liked it, most never included raja or rajput in their names, some did. its not a hard and fast rule.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
Saqlain Mushtaq in a recent TV interview revealed that his great-grandfather’s name was Rood Singh, a Hindu from Amritsar. Rood Singh converted to Islam, and his descendants later migrated to Pakistan. Saqlain traced his lineage as follows: Rood Singh → Umang Din → Lal Din → Mushtaq Ahmed → Saqlain Mushtaq .
IAJ
T20I Star
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2008
- Runs
- 32,949
- Post of the Week
- 1
Similarly some Gujjars alo put Khan as their surname. And you also see other put Shah after they name even though they are not syeds.
Romali_rotti
Senior ODI Player
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2005
- Runs
- 21,704
Heard Pakistan's ex defence minister Bajwa is a Jatt, wonder which part of Hinduism his background is...
Romali_rotti
Senior ODI Player
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2005
- Runs
- 21,704
Bhaijan was trolling my bro sweep_shot
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
I’m serious about it.
You may continue practicing Islam. But once in your life, for the sake of the ancestors, you should do it. It’s not for yourself. Don’t be selfish about it.
Stewie
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2008
- Runs
- 15,780
what is pind Daan? maybe you should shed some more light on it
Stewie
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2008
- Runs
- 15,780
This ritual has its roots in Hinduism. Why would a Muslim do it? I just searched this term. Had no clue what it was.
Anyhow this seems to go against the teachings of Islam. If we want to do something for our Hindu ancestors, we will pray to Allah and ask for their maghfirat and forgiveness. Nothing selfish about it. Not sure where you get that from.
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2015
- Runs
- 1,822
- Post of the Week
- 2
Changing lineage (which you are loosely referring to as caste) is impermissible in Islam and major sin.
People adopt last names out of legal necessity OR maybe they are paying homage to a prominent historical figure, for example:
In Turkiye after Mustafa Kamal Ataturk passed the "Surname Law" in 1934, people added names for official business and it has nothing to do with ancestry.
In Afghanistan, there was no such thing as "Surname" and was added much later by people so things like "Abdullah Abdullah" was created.
In Pakistan, when people migrated they also added surnames for official reasons so the extrapolations of "caste system" (which has no basis in Islam) from surname is not correct. Those of our family who migrated to Pakistan dropped "Khan" in 1947 and added something else for paperwork purposes and not to align themselves to a caste, they did it because "Khan" was too common so it was a fashion thing...
In traditional Arab societies (and also in Europe) it was based on parentage so this is a typical name:
- Osman Bin (son of)
- Muhammad Bin (son of)
- Awad Bin (son of)
- Aboud Bin (son of)
- Ladin
W$%^ X$%^ Y$%^ Z$%^ Yusuf Zai
but legally on my passport it is W$%^ X$%^ Khan and then further written legally shortened as W$%^ X. Khan
So if you look at my legal name (today) it partially points to my ethnicity and lineage but some in my family don't even have "Khan" in it so you can't get ethnicity out of it at all.
Caste has no bearing in Islam so it is irrelevant.
Many do take a last name paying homage to someone they admire, happens the world over all the time. I have a White convert friend and his name was (lets say)
James Smith
There is no Islamic legal requirement to change names but he changed it to
Muhammad Umar Ayyubi, is he related to Salahuddin Ayyubi? No, he is paying homage to it, I know why he picked it because he liked the movie at the time
I can't remember the Hindu name of our Brahim friend but he changed his name to "Muhammad Umar"
Another Hindu friend of mine went from Vinny Kumar to Muhammad Ali
Dileep Kumar Rajagopala went to Allah Rakha Rahman
Sanjjanaa Galrani is now Aisha Aziz Pasha
So what you are researching (for the past), we see it in real time week in and week out. In my experience some converts change their first name but keep last name but don't legally change anything but just "Joe" is just referred to as "Khalid" etc while some legally change the first name and some change the last name too.
Islam doesn't have castes so the extrapolation of caste from surname has no bearing on anyone.
When marrying in Islam, certain scholars (followed) in subcontinent have discussed Kufu and let me explain that to you.
Kufu (Kafa'ah) in Marriage:
Loosely it means finding a marriage partner who is "most compatible" with you. In modern times, this could be from an Academic or socioeconomic perspective but in the past it would have other considerations.
I have read old religious writings (from the subcontinent) where they extended this concept in the past to imply that X should marry Y and had recommendations in family lineage etc but this is not based on Islam.
Any X can marry any Y in Islam regardless of caste or ethnicity etc.
You will find that a some "prevalent Islamic practices in India" are cultural Indian baggage and nothing to do with Islam, for example women visiting Dargahs in India is BS because as you well know women visit the most holy sites in Islam so why would there be a problem with visiting a Dargah in India???
Stewie
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2008
- Runs
- 15,780
I still don't understand where you guys are all inferring from that "Khan" is related to a "caste"Changing lineage (which you are loosely referring to as caste) is impermissible in Islam and major sin.
People adopt last names out of legal necessity OR maybe they are paying homage to a prominent historical figure, for example:
In Turkiye after Mustafa Kamal Ataturk passed the "Surname Law" in 1934, people added names for official business and it has nothing to do with ancestry.
In Afghanistan, there was no such thing as "Surname" and was added much later by people so things like "Abdullah Abdullah" was created.
In Pakistan, when people migrated they also added surnames for official reasons so the extrapolations of "caste system" (which has no basis in Islam) from surname is not correct. Those of our family who migrated to Pakistan dropped "Khan" in 1947 and added something else for paperwork purposes and not to align themselves to a caste, they did it because "Khan" was too common so it was a fashion thing...
In traditional Arab societies (and also in Europe) it was based on parentage so this is a typical name:
When converted in today's society it will have to be modified, so my birth name given to me is:
- Osman Bin (son of)
- Muhammad Bin (son of)
- Awad Bin (son of)
- Aboud Bin (son of)
- Ladin
W$%^ X$%^ Y$%^ Z$%^ Yusuf Zai
but legally on my passport it is W$%^ X$%^ Khan and then further written legally shortened as W$%^ X. Khan
So if you look at my legal name (today) it partially points to my ethnicity and lineage but some in my family don't even have "Khan" in it so you can't get ethnicity out of it at all.
Caste has no bearing in Islam so it is irrelevant.
Many do take a last name paying homage to someone they admire, happens the world over all the time. I have a White convert friend and his name was (lets say)
James Smith
There is no Islamic legal requirement to change names but he changed it to
Muhammad Umar Ayyubi, is he related to Salahuddin Ayyubi? No, he is paying homage to it, I know why he picked it because he liked the movie at the time
I can't remember the Hindu name of our Brahim friend but he changed his name to "Muhammad Umar"
Another Hindu friend of mine went from Vinny Kumar to Muhammad Ali
Dileep Kumar Rajagopala went to Allah Rakha Rahman
Sanjjanaa Galrani is now Aisha Aziz Pasha
So what you are researching (for the past), we see it in real time week in and week out. In my experience some converts change their first name but keep last name but don't legally change anything but just "Joe" is just referred to as "Khalid" etc while some legally change the first name and some change the last name too.
Islam doesn't have castes so the extrapolation of caste from surname has no bearing on anyone.
When marrying in Islam, certain scholars (followed) in subcontinent have discussed Kufu and let me explain that to you.
Kufu (Kafa'ah) in Marriage:
Loosely it means finding a marriage partner who is "most compatible" with you. In modern times, this could be from an Academic or socioeconomic perspective but in the past it would have other considerations.
I have read old religious writings (from the subcontinent) where they extended this concept in the past to imply that X should marry Y and had recommendations in family lineage etc but this is not based on Islam.
Any X can marry any Y in Islam regardless of caste or ethnicity etc.
You will find that a some "prevalent Islamic practices in India" are cultural Indian baggage and nothing to do with Islam, for example women visiting Dargahs in India is BS because as you well know women visit the most holy sites in Islam so why would there be a problem with visiting a Dargah in India???
There are plenty of wannabes and copies but the real "Khans" are Pashtuns and they have a tribal structure. There are Niazis, Yousafzais, Durranis, Afridis, Lodhis, etc and most of them use Khan in their names along with the tribal name. It has zero connection with caste.
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2015
- Runs
- 1,822
- Post of the Week
- 2
Agreed.
I am YusufZai but on the paperwork it has been replaced with just "Khan".
The thread is based on the presumption that last names are somehow linked to Caste which isn't an Islamic concept to begin with.
I am going further and saying that people are converting now and just adding whatever (or keeping whatever) and caste isn't even on their mind...
Stewie
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2008
- Runs
- 15,780
The caste system is a distinctly Hindu system. The Punjabis have inherited some of it. For instance Gujjars are typically in dairy business or milk sellers. Jatts are farmers or landlords, etc. But in Pathans or Pashtuns there is no such concept. I can speak for the other ethnicities of Pakistanis. But I have rarely heard Urdu speaking "mahajirs" refer to their "caste" either. I suspect same goes for Balochis and Sindhis as well. Most of the provinces or areas of the western subcontinent had a tribal system rather than caste systems.
maverick85
Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2016
- Runs
- 262
The real Khans were mongolian like genghis khan. Khan, shah, sultan are persian/mongol names for ruler with khan being used heavily by pashtuns/afghans.
Stewie
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2008
- Runs
- 15,780
Yes, so once again - the connection between the term "Khan" and Turkic/Moghal/Pashtun/Mongol/Persian has been made by various traditions over the course of history, which further higlights its ethnic or tribal etymology rather than one based in the Hindu Caste system.
Suggest keeping Khans/Pashtuns, etc out of this discussion. The modern day Khans may have had some Hindu ancestors generations ago but its very difficult to ascertain what castes since the last name "Khan" really belongs to the family name belonging to mostly the Muslim side and doesn't offer any clues to the Hindu caste.
Suleiman
Test Debutant
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2014
- Runs
- 16,869
- Post of the Week
- 2
Not possible. Not as a Muslim. If it were permissible at any point, Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him would’ve gladly participated for his father’s sake who was a priest.
Instead he smashed every idol into bits and left the axe with the biggest idol, when his people came back from the festival and asked who did this he said ask the big one.
We are willing to completely defy and be at odds with our ancestors, parents etc whoever if they engage in associating partners with God and innovate in religion. Blood relations and bloodlines mean nothing if it gets in the way of obedience to God. That’s not just for shirk, but also for bid’ah (innovation in religion) because that’s how misguidance and corruption begins.
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2010
- Runs
- 29,280
- Post of the Week
- 2
Yes it is prevalent in Punjab.
It's commonly asked question for marriage purposes even here in the UK amongst Punjabis but dying out slowly but apart from that it's not really a day to day issue for most.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
I come from the Kaushal Punjabi Brahmin lineage like the famous actor Vicky Kaushal.
I trace my spiritual ancestry to the legendary ancient Rishi Vishvamitra who was a Kshatriya King turned Brahmarishi, one of the most powerful and complex figures in our Vedic heritage.
He didn’t inherit his sainthood but he earned it, challenging gods, traditions, and even himself in his ascent from royalty to rishi. Our gotra, Kaushika takes its name from him, and with it, a legacy of tenacity, intellect, and restlessness.
Historically, Kaushal or Kaushik Brahmins were spread across northern India, particularly in regions that were once part of ancient Kosala Desh, the same land associated with Lord Rama, and centered around Ayodhya.
Over time, branches of this lineage migrated and established deep roots in various parts of India, Punjab, Haryana, Himachal, Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, and even parts of Madhya Pradesh.
In Punjab, where my own family hails from, Kaushal Brahmins adapted to the robust, martial spirit of the land while preserving our ritual, scholarly, and spiritual traditions. In times of upheaval, many served as custodians of dharma, advisors, healers, and teachers balancing Vedic knowledge with the pragmatism the land demanded.
Now, on a more personal note: I carry within me what I believe are unmistakable echoes of my lineage.
But just as my ancestor didn’t stop at desire, nor at anger, neither should I. Vishvamitra fell, rose, and ultimately transcended not by suppressing human experience, but by integrating and outgrowing it.
Being Kaushal is not about being perfect it’s about being in process: fiercely human, deeply spiritual, and always aiming just a little higher.
Now, although we trace our gotra to Kaushika Rishi, many of us use the more widely recognized surname “Sharma” Why? Because Sharma is a pan-Indian Brahminical honorific, derived from the Sanskrit word śarman meaning joy, comfort, or blessing. It serves as a unifying identity across different Brahmin sub-groups, especially in North India. So, while Kaushal Brahmin describes our gotra and lineage, Sharma reflects our varna and scholarly dharma, a priestly class tasked with the preservation of knowledge, ritual, and dharma.
So here I am a modern Kaushik, stuck somewhere between tapasya and traffic jams, trying to live up to a lineage that was never afraid of the fire.
I trace my spiritual ancestry to the legendary ancient Rishi Vishvamitra who was a Kshatriya King turned Brahmarishi, one of the most powerful and complex figures in our Vedic heritage.
He didn’t inherit his sainthood but he earned it, challenging gods, traditions, and even himself in his ascent from royalty to rishi. Our gotra, Kaushika takes its name from him, and with it, a legacy of tenacity, intellect, and restlessness.
Historically, Kaushal or Kaushik Brahmins were spread across northern India, particularly in regions that were once part of ancient Kosala Desh, the same land associated with Lord Rama, and centered around Ayodhya.
Over time, branches of this lineage migrated and established deep roots in various parts of India, Punjab, Haryana, Himachal, Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, and even parts of Madhya Pradesh.
In Punjab, where my own family hails from, Kaushal Brahmins adapted to the robust, martial spirit of the land while preserving our ritual, scholarly, and spiritual traditions. In times of upheaval, many served as custodians of dharma, advisors, healers, and teachers balancing Vedic knowledge with the pragmatism the land demanded.
Now, on a more personal note: I carry within me what I believe are unmistakable echoes of my lineage.
- A burning focus when I believe in something.
- A temper that sparks when pushed (I’m working on that).
- And admittedly, a certain fascination with beauty, especially in its feminine form which if you’ve read the Vishvamitra–Menaka episode, feels rather hereditary. It almost led to my downfall and pushed me to the dark side the first time around. I showed extremely resilience to come back from that pit only to be pushed back in there by Pakistanis who backstabbed me in 2025.
But just as my ancestor didn’t stop at desire, nor at anger, neither should I. Vishvamitra fell, rose, and ultimately transcended not by suppressing human experience, but by integrating and outgrowing it.
Being Kaushal is not about being perfect it’s about being in process: fiercely human, deeply spiritual, and always aiming just a little higher.
Now, although we trace our gotra to Kaushika Rishi, many of us use the more widely recognized surname “Sharma” Why? Because Sharma is a pan-Indian Brahminical honorific, derived from the Sanskrit word śarman meaning joy, comfort, or blessing. It serves as a unifying identity across different Brahmin sub-groups, especially in North India. So, while Kaushal Brahmin describes our gotra and lineage, Sharma reflects our varna and scholarly dharma, a priestly class tasked with the preservation of knowledge, ritual, and dharma.
So here I am a modern Kaushik, stuck somewhere between tapasya and traffic jams, trying to live up to a lineage that was never afraid of the fire.
And even amongst Hindus, caste origins may not be as easy to prove as one might presuppose. Many years ago an Indian sociologist - M.N. Srinivas - famously coined the phrase, "Sanskritization," to explain the practice where lower castes emulated the customs and rituals of higher castes. Eventually many claimed higher status or simply adopted different names. There was therefore greater upward mobility than might have been assumed.
ElRaja
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2010
- Runs
- 10,348
the cast system was merely a step in the economic evolution of the division of labour. in hunter gatherer societies everyone had to partake in the hunt, everyone had to partake in the defense of the family or tribe. when humans because agrarian and settled the capital surplus meant that there was time to invest in other pursuits, such as weapon smithing, or tailoring, etc. given there were no schools to teach people these crafts, it was incumbent on the family to teach their talented children the means and ways of whatever skill they were proficient in.
being taught this skill became a mark of being a chosen child, as other children would likely have been invovled in daily labour intensive activities, unless the families were very well to do. those families which practised certain skills eventually grew into tribes, and casts, and realising the benefit of limiting competition enshrined in a social construct the idea that certain people occupy certain rungs in social orders, and the cast system was built.
its a historical artefact which is given more importance than it is worth if you take it seriously, or hold any material value to it, however as a means of sating curiousity about ones on background or origins, it does no harm. im not religious, but even islam puts the utmost importance on knowing familial background, "zaat or nasal parasti" is haram, but as long as you only use it for educational purposes, there is nothing wrong in it.
being taught this skill became a mark of being a chosen child, as other children would likely have been invovled in daily labour intensive activities, unless the families were very well to do. those families which practised certain skills eventually grew into tribes, and casts, and realising the benefit of limiting competition enshrined in a social construct the idea that certain people occupy certain rungs in social orders, and the cast system was built.
its a historical artefact which is given more importance than it is worth if you take it seriously, or hold any material value to it, however as a means of sating curiousity about ones on background or origins, it does no harm. im not religious, but even islam puts the utmost importance on knowing familial background, "zaat or nasal parasti" is haram, but as long as you only use it for educational purposes, there is nothing wrong in it.
maverick85
Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2016
- Runs
- 262
So an obnoxious brahmin Indian who thinks he's a priestly class know it all.
rpant_gabba
First Class Player
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2023
- Runs
- 2,925
Its a patent system/trade secret/job security method for all practical purposes.
ElRaja
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2010
- Runs
- 10,348
same reason why medieval european societies had trade guilds and why people pay monthly fees towards having professional qualification letters behind their names, ironically not that dissimilar to carrying your caste in your full name.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
Caste system was the genius construct of an era where the wellness of society as a whole was paramount and where selfishness had no place.
Muhammad Saad
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2006
- Runs
- 9,917
It’s very likely that only 10% of the self proclaimed Syed are actual descendants of prophet (A.S) according to inconclusive DNA evidence so yea many Brahmin converts adopted this title and so many other converts as well.
Feeling proud to be an actual syed with my lineage traceable with Saudi hashmi tribe as little as from 120 years.
Feeling proud to be an actual syed with my lineage traceable with Saudi hashmi tribe as little as from 120 years.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
Very nice.
I have heard the Royal family of Jordan are also direct descendants from
Prophet Mohd (Peace be upon him) ‘s family.
What’s the story of the Syed community and its origins.
And any famous Pakistani Syeds?
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
Which are the Top 5 surnames in Pakistan. Who have no shortage of rishta for niqah.
Muhammad Saad
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2006
- Runs
- 9,917
The DNA evidence is inconclusive and the actual real syed can be from 10% to 40% but definitely more than half of the Syed population in subcontinent has just adopted the name for pride sake.
Farhan The Man
Tape Ball Captain
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2024
- Runs
- 1,024
There was no saudi 120 years ago.
What is this pride thing?
Surely there must be some gain in character or influence. Due to lineage.
Muhammad Saad
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2006
- Runs
- 9,917
Abha, located in the Asir Province of southwestern Saudi Arabia, has been inhabited for centuries. Even by the early 1900s (around 1905), Abha was an established town. It served as a regional center in the highlands and was part of the Asir Emirate, which was an independent state at that time under the leadership of Muhammad ibn Ali al-Idrisi.
The Ottoman Empire had some control or influence over parts of the region in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, but the rugged geography of the Asir mountains made Abha relatively isolated and governed more locally.
Farhan The Man
Tape Ball Captain
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2024
- Runs
- 1,024
You are neither saudi. Nor turkeesh. Nor descendant of prophet. Like all other subcontinental converts.
You are a pakistani with western passport. Again wielding no incremental influence like all other pakistanis with western passports.
Let's leave it at that.
You are a pakistani with western passport. Again wielding no incremental influence like all other pakistanis with western passports.
Let's leave it at that.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
I have never made a big deal of my caste. I judge a man by the content of his character and not by his surname. Tapasya and Tyag are the hallmarks of the my family.
Romali_rotti
Senior ODI Player
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2005
- Runs
- 21,704
@maverick85
Bhaijan what he said above is correct, he judges a man by his character which is why he holds our honorable PM in high regard despite being from a lower caste.
Muhammad Saad
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2006
- Runs
- 9,917
No point arguing with you brother. Peace out.
SpiritOf1903
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2009
- Runs
- 9,833
Modern Pakistan has more links to sikhism than Hinduism as alluded by OP. Surnames shared include Chauhan, Sethi, Gill, Sandhu, amongst others
Farhan The Man
Tape Ball Captain
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2024
- Runs
- 1,024
Not true.
pak sindhis/gujratis/memons/kachis have surnames of lakhani, jinnah, hoodbhai, vadwani, jumani, sachideva, poonja et al were hindus.
pak founder Mahomedali Jinnahbhai, an agakhani gujrati, with hindu ancestory.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
Sikhism itself has been transitioning religion with Hindu roots brother.
SpiritOf1903
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2009
- Runs
- 9,833
Allama Iqbal AR was Brahmin. Point being Pakistani Punjab especially has had lots of DNA crossover with sikhs. It's a fact.
That a subcontinental nation would have historically been Hindu or Buddhist is surprising why ?. Hinduism predates Islam
SpiritOf1903
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2009
- Runs
- 9,833
It's a plagiarism of various texts, yes
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
That’s not the right word.
Inspiration is the right word because being fair to them they tried to include good teachings that made sense to the Gurus from various religions and cultures while at the same time they distanced their community from many aspects of other religions they did not agree with
Immense respect to the Gurus and early days Sikh misls.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
And Buddhism.
Sanatan is the oldest major religion on the planet. Some of the Godly figures in Sanatan predate what is generally considered the dawn of Hinduism. They have been worshipping Shiva since stone ages.
Cpt. Rishwat
T20I Captain
- Joined
- May 8, 2010
- Runs
- 43,354
Good for you Farhan babu, once again planting your Hindu flag in the Sindhi soil. The first step to reclaiming your dharma has been taken.
.png "Apology :apology")
maverick85
Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2016
- Runs
- 262
Islam is, with Adam (pbuh) being the first muslim.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
It’s a fairy tale.
There are many fairy tales in our culture too.
I’m talking about historical facts.
Sanatan Dharma as a culture predates the other major cultures.
Religious philosophy cannot be compared apple to apple. Sanatan talks about time and origins in its own way.
Cpt. Rishwat
T20I Captain
- Joined
- May 8, 2010
- Runs
- 43,354
Sanatan Dharma predates all other major cultures, we can agree on that. It was also discarded centuries ago in reality, and today Sanatanis pay lip service only. Even when an evil woman murders her husband in calculated cold blood so she can rejoin her lover, brainwashed "Sanatanis" make excuses like she must have had a forced marriage. They cannot even call a spade a spade these days except if it accords with western narratives.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
Sanatan Dharma has shown remarkable resilience through the ages. The very fact that it continues to thrive in over a billion people today worldwide including in some nations where it’s an overwhelming minority is a powerful testament to its enduring strength. There are people holding on to it in countries where the reward and public acceptance for conversion would be a huge incentive for them and yet they choose the struggles that come with being a minority. It cannot be possible of the connection with Dharma isn’t extremely strong and personal.
It has withstood conquests, plunder, prejudice, philosophical debates, and even periods of deep self-doubt yet it remains intact and now even stands at the threshold of a spiritual and cultural renaissance. Simply extraordinary for a tradition that has never pursued expansionism, imposed harsh penalties for dissent, or coerced its followers into conformity. Hinduism at its core is a path to liberation. It encourages introspection, free thought, and open discussion, which is why it often eludes rigid definitions or simple explanations.
Even the faiths that emerged from Sanatan roots, Buddhism and Sikhism remain strong and vibrant in their own right. Like all living traditions, religions undergo change and are tested by time. Social reform is not a sign of weakness, but of vitality.
Cpt. Rishwat
T20I Captain
- Joined
- May 8, 2010
- Runs
- 43,354
Perhaps my view is warped from living in the west. I have only really been exposed to Indians keen to assimilate with western culture and generally hide their Sanatan roots, and we only get to see Bollywood nonsense which also gives a similar vibe.
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
People make a mistake when they compare two completely different philosophies in spirituality and way of life as Apple to Apple.
We don’t consider ourselves as part of any competition. It’s not about proving ourselves as best and the other culture as inferior. That’s really not Hindu culture.
Mother, Nation & Sanatani culture for us is beyond comparisons.
maverick85
Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2016
- Runs
- 262
The sentinelese are the real sanatananas, who still live in the stone age. Brahmins and other hindutvavadis are newcomers to the gangetic plains in the grand scheme of things. You should do a pind daan to the andaman island once in your lifetime as they are the OG's of the bharati dharmic life
North Sentinel Island: The Mysterious Island That Time Forgot
Nestled in the heart of the Indian Ocean lies a place where time stands still. La Isla Sentinel del Norte, a tiny island, holds secrets so…
My extraordinary journey to visit the world’s last ‘Stone Age’ tribe
For 60,000 years, the tribes of the Andaman Islands have lived undisturbed – but now their way of life is under threat
www.telegraph.co.uk
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
The sentinelese are the real sanatananas, who still live in the stone age. Brahmins and other hindutvavadis are newcomers to the gangetic plains in the grand scheme of things. You should do a pind daan to the andaman island once in your lifetime as they are the OG's of the bharati dharmic life
North Sentinel Island: The Mysterious Island That Time Forgot
Nestled in the heart of the Indian Ocean lies a place where time stands still. La Isla Sentinel del Norte, a tiny island, holds secrets so…medium.com
They’re an untouched tribe.
They’ve had no interaction with our civilization and we have been generous enough in letting them be. It’s a gorgeous Island.
maverick85
Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2016
- Runs
- 262
Shouldn't you follow their way of living? They're the original inhabitants of a certain bharat mata. You could probably rock up to them on a boat and declare you're a brahmin related to a king rishi and that they should now follow a caste system. It could be a type of ghar wapsi for you. Although I hear stone age weapons are pretty sharp
Bhaijaan
Hall of Famer
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Runs
- 68,265
- Post of the Week
- 1
They never even entered Bharat. Whatever you’re smoking today. You had a good time and you should sleep now. I cannot keep replying to low IQ comments
He’s consistent… give him that!! Living his true Santi lifeGood for you Farhan babu, once again planting your Hindu flag in the Sindhi soil. The first step to reclaiming your dharma has been taken.
emranabbas
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2013
- Runs
- 10,996
Bhai jaan, I found your post a bit confusing, so I just wanted to share a clarification. Castes in the Indian subcontinent have traditionally been linked to occupations and social roles, not religion. For example, a caste like 'Jatt' refers to a community historically associated with farming and landowning, and you’ll find Jatts who are Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, and even in rare cases Christian, the caste identity remains the same across religious lines.
This is because caste is a social and cultural structure, not a religious one. Saying things like ‘Hindu farmer’ or ‘Muslim farmer’ doesn’t really make sense in this context. A farmer is a farmer, and if they belong to a caste like Jatt, Gujjar, or Yadav, that identity stays regardless of their religion.
maverick85
Debutant
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2016
- Runs
- 262
Are you denying your baharati history? Are you anti-national? The islands came along in the continental drift, along with king rishis ancestors. Why are you triggered by the ghar wapsi to the andaman islands?
emranabbas
ODI Debutant
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2013
- Runs
- 10,996
What you gather is incorrect maybe you should do some research. Syeds are from the lineage of our prophet muhammed saw i don't see how your connecting it with bramans
