Which innings was worse? Sunil Gavaskar in 1975 or Hashim Amla in 2019?

[ManFan]

1). 1975 1st Match of the Inagural World Cup:

England score 334/4.

Indian opener Sunil Gavaskar responds with 36* off 174 balls at a SR of 20.7.

Match Result: England win by 202 runs.

2). 2019 Pakistan-South Africa ODI Series:

South Africa score 266/2.

South African opener Hashim Amla scores 108* off 120 balls at a SR of 90.

Match Result: Pakistan win by 5 wickets.

Considering the differences in white-ball cricket eras along with batting first and second, which opener played a bigger part in his team’s defeat?

And the bigger question, WHY did they do so?

 

[Swashbuckler]

Gavaskar did it purposely because he had a tiff with the then captain Venkatraghavan, also he wanted to lodge a protest because he was denied captaincy. Also the 1st WC wasn't taken seriously by many including him, they thought ODI cricket was a circus back then, it was a new format devised by officials to fill in for tests that were rain affected for large parts.

Amla didn't do it purposely, this was a knock by a man well past it.

I will say Sunny's was worse because there was malicious intent and it was a deliberate act of sabotage, as great a batsman he was he had many character flaws.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

Gavaskar.

Amla for all his failures, probably miscalculated the amount of runs in the pitch and Pakistan's ability to chase them down.

Gavaskar refused to believe that the runs could be chased and had no intent to chase. It was losing on purpose.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

You forget Amla 98 against pak when south africa needed 8 runs in 2 overs and they lost by one run and Amla played out whole second last over maiden.
On topic Gavaskar was more worse but India has no chance to win, that was their first match as odi.
India never organized list A match before 1980, so our players never knew to how to play odi. That's why bad result in first two world cup. After the introduction of list A matches from 1980 we become good odi team and won the world cup in 1983 and later same Gavaskar hit 80 ball hundred.
Yesterday inning was bad because a player who knows how to play odi scored 28 in 26 balls when south africa had 9 wickets left.

 

[Itachi]

Gavaskar.

He had the ability to do it but he had difference in principle with odi cricket and hence refused to go for it IIRC.

Amla didn't have the ability. It was never his forte. Hence, it would be wrong to expect that from him.

 

[ExpressPacer]

Gavaskar.

He had the ability to do it but he had difference in principle with odi cricket and hence refused to go for it IIRC.

Amla didn't have the ability. It was never his forte. Hence, it would be wrong to expect that from him.

Why is he so adored in India then? He put his personal vendettas ahead of the cause of the team.

 

[Itachi]

Why is he so adored in India then? He put his personal vendettas ahead of the cause of the team.

he is the best test batsman india have ever had. This was a conflict in principle IIRC. and most people in india probably doesn't even remember it. Those were early days of ODIs and hence, people don't take it to a great distance.

 

[Swashbuckler]

Why is he so adored in India then? He put his personal vendettas ahead of the cause of the team.

He is adored in India the way Boycott is adored in England. Respect for the playing ability but equal hatred for his character flaws. He was once relentlessly booed in Eden Gardens (due to his treatment and conduct towards Kapil), had stuff thrown at him and his family, as a result he vowed to never play again in Kolkata. He kept true to his word and never played another match there including a test match against Imran's Pakistan in 1986. Had we made the 1987 final he would have sat that one out too. He never gained public affection like his near contemporary Kapil.

Sunny has many good traits too (he saved a Muslim family from a large and violent Hindutva extremist mob during Bombay riots putting his life at risk, which other cricketer would do such a thing?) and many of the positions he took back in the day were to preserve Asian bloc unity against the white rulers of the game. But he was selfish and a vindictive person picking nasty fights with other Indian greats like Bedi, Kapil, Vengsarkar etc during his career.

 

[todfod 11]

Gavaskar did it purposefully while Amla clearly struggled. It was a horrendous inning by some one of his calibre.

 

[Napa]

Why is he so adored in India then? He put his personal vendettas ahead of the cause of the team.

Gavaskar was not only India's first cricketing superstar, but also a man who by his dogged determination took his country to the #1 ranking in Test cricket at a time when no Asian country could dream of such an achievement.

Gavaskar was also someone who would not put up with nepotism and other bad behavior. That was the reason why he got into scraps with different people, and also the cricketing establishment including the MCC.

Overall a wonderful person who will be remembered for his courage, character and determination.

ODIs were a joke for Gavaskar especially during the early days of ODIs, no point in discussing this ODI innings of his.

 

[Oligochaetes]

Javed Miandad once scored 63 off 167 deliveries against West Indies, but looking at the scorecard, he had no other choice...

LINK

 

[Ab Fan]

Gavaskar did it deliberately,not that he would have won his team anyways. Amla, on other hand, miscalculated his inning and lacked the game awareness of changing the batting gear at correct time.

Amla's inning wasnt as bad as Gavaskar one. That will go down as the worst ODI inning ever.

 

[Abdullah]

Most people would think pak cant chase 270.
But this top 3 ( Shan is needed, I'm assuming he's an upgrade on imam from what I have seen) can get us into a position to do it.
290 is the next test

 

[a_tahir]

You forget Amla 98 against pak when south africa needed 8 runs in 2 overs and they lost by one run and Amla played out whole second last over maiden.
On topic Gavaskar was more worse but India has no chance to win, that was their first match as odi.
India never organized list A match before 1980, so our players never knew to how to play odi. That's why bad result in first two world cup. After the introduction of list A matches from 1980 we become good odi team and won the world cup in 1983 and later same Gavaskar hit 80 ball hundred.
Yesterday inning was bad because a player who knows how to play odi scored 28 in 26 balls when south africa had 9 wickets left.

Firstly, he didn't play it out maiden he hit a single on the first ball.
Secondly, he got out by trying to hit a lofted sweep when on 98. So he technically wasn't selfish that time

 

[Bilal7]

People do realize that the average first innings score in PE (I think that is where the first ODI took place) is around 230, right? Looking at that, it was nowhere near a terrible innings. A little selfish sure, but not in the same ballpark as Gavasker's all-timer.

 

[JibranAnsari]

Gavaskar did it purposely and amla didnt even try to hit out.

Amlas was one of the worst innings of modern times if you keep in mind the situation. Should have scored 150.

 

[Junaids]

Gavaskar was not only India's first cricketing superstar, but also a man who by his dogged determination took his country to the #1 ranking in Test cricket at a time when no Asian country could dream of such an achievement.

Gavaskar was also someone who would not put up with nepotism and other bad behavior. That was the reason why he got into scraps with different people, and also the cricketing establishment including the MCC.

Overall a wonderful person who will be remembered for his courage, character and determination.

ODIs were a joke for Gavaskar especially during the early days of ODIs, no point in discussing this ODI innings of his.

To be fair, India only discovered that by a mathematical anomaly it had briefly had the Number 1 ranking thirty years after the event.

There was no Test ranking system in the twentieth century: the system was invented in June 2003 and retrospectively applied.

 

[Bilal7]

To be fair, India only discovered that by a mathematical anomaly it had briefly had the Number 1 ranking thirty years after the event.

There was no Test ranking system in the twentieth century: the system was invented in June 2003 and retrospectively applied.

)

But I thought Gavasker had led his team to #1 through "dogged determination"?

 

[srh]

Tendulkar's inning top them all in selfishness.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Sunil Gavaskar is never remembered for ODI achievement. You cannot possibly call Sunny's innings a selfish lol He didn't even try to get to 50. On the other hand Amla frustrated every single person in the dressing room. Captain had to say it out in the post match presentation. Dhoni deliberately defended in England and got booed by the crowd. That was bad as well.

 

[Smudger]

Amal innings was not as selfish as people are making it out to be. Gavaskar type of innings was extremely slow in 1870s never mind 1970s.

 

[Napa]

To be fair, India only discovered that by a mathematical anomaly it had briefly had the Number 1 ranking thirty years after the event.

There was no Test ranking system in the twentieth century: the system was invented in June 2003 and retrospectively applied.

You do not know the meaning of the word "anomaly", so there is nothing "fair" in what you wrote. To be fair, as far as India is concerned, you are anything but fair.

The phrase "mathematical anomaly" may be used for something like Ramanujan Summation:

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + .... = -1/12

To use it to describe the result of the retroactive application of an algebraic formula shows a deep ignorance of the language.

There was nothing anomalous about the calculation which put India at #1, and the same calculation is used today. You could have called it "retroactive" or something, using the word "anomaly" in this context demonstrates a lack of knowledge about its meaning.

India's grip of the #1 ranking was quite strong, it was able to hold on to it for no less than 15 months. It wasn't ephemeral, as may happen, for example if it was obtained by the good fortune of a rained out match.

 

[GrandMaster]

Seriously?

Is scoring 108* off 120 balls batting first at a SR of 90 really that bad?

Imam scored @ 85 and Babar scored @ 71. No one is mentioning about them coz Pakistan won the match. Would PPers have reacted in a similar way (against Imam and Babar) if Pakistan would have lost the match? Or if Babar would have scored the runs at a similar strike rate in a losing cause?

 

[Napa]

Seriously?

Is scoring 108* off 120 balls batting first at a SR of 90 really that bad?

Imam scored @ 85 and Babar scored @ 71. No one is mentioning about them coz Pakistan won the match. Would PPers have reacted in a similar way (against Imam and Babar) if Pakistan would have lost the match? Or if Babar would have scored the runs at a similar strike rate in a losing cause?

Not only that, but the rest of the SA batsmen were only able to manage a S/R of 86!

 

[jnaveen1980]

Seriously?

Is scoring 108* off 120 balls batting first at a SR of 90 really that bad?

Imam scored @ 85 and Babar scored @ 71. No one is mentioning about them coz Pakistan won the match. Would PPers have reacted in a similar way (against Imam and Babar) if Pakistan would have lost the match? Or if Babar would have scored the runs at a similar strike rate in a losing cause?

If you had seen the match you would not look at just the strike rate. He was pathetic with acceleration towards the end. He was rotating strike until 47th over by taking singles.

 

[Napa]

)

But I thought Gavasker had led his team to #1 through "dogged determination"?

You find dogged determination funny? Judging by its current results, your team could certainly use a bit of it.

 

[Varun]

The very fact that you have to bring in that Gavaskar's innings from the early days of ODI cricket into an Amla debate of today suggests that Amla's innings was really bad!

 

[Mamoon]

Amla is an average ODI batsman but I refuse to succumb to public pressure - I am adamant that he played a very solid innings and a good bowling attack should be able to defend 260 against this Pakistan lineup.

As mentioned already, Gavaskar played a deliberately slow innings. A lot of people are ignorant of the fact that he was an excellent ODI player in his own right but did not take the format seriously.

 

[big_gamer007]

Gavaskar innings wasn't selfish, I mean a selfish innings is one where you get a 50 or 100 taking while making sure the team loses. Gavaskar's innings was just pathetic and others have already mentioned the reasons, it was poor from Gavaskar and in modern professional era he would be dropped from the team for such behaviour..

Amla's innings I did not watch so can't comment but from the looks of scorecard he should have accelerated a bit earlier, SA were 20 runs short.