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Which is the greatest spin-bowling nation ever?

Bhaijaan

Bhaijaan

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Tell your Bhaijaan.

Probably a close call between India and Pakistan.

Whos ahead?
 
Pakistan

Legends like

Saqlain Mushtaq
Saeej ajmal before chucking incident
mushtaq ahmed
abdul qadir
and now yasir shah
 
I'm probably gonna have to go with India:
The spin quartet,
Bishan Singh Bedi
Anil Kumble
Harbhajan Singh
R Ashwin
R Jadeja

That's all I can think of from the top of my head, I know I missed a few more but I can't remember.
 
ExplicitAI said:
I'm probably gonna have to go with India:
The spin quartet,
Bishan Singh Bedi
Anil Kumble
Harbhajan Singh
R Ashwin
R Jadeja

That's all I can think of from the top of my head, I know I missed a few more but I can't remember.
Click to expand...

Chandrashekhar, Prassana, Venkataraghavan, Nadkarni, Gupte.
 
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How can anyone call a spinner averaging almost 50 away from home, decent is beyond me.
 
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Qadir, Saqlain, Mushy Ahmed, Kaneria, Ajmal, Yasir - Thats a damn a good spin line up.

Bedi, Chandrashekhar; Prasanna, Venkat, Shivaramakrishnan, Hirwani, Kumble, Harbhajan, Karthik, Mishra, Ashwin, Jadeja, Kuldeep, Chahal - India has an army of quality spin bowling though quality wise one may say Pakistan's bes are either at par or even better.

Lankans havr Murali, Herath
 
Pakistan

But India is the best spin playing nation. Their batters are very good against spin.
 
These kind of comparisons are hard and subjective.

I'd say Indian spinners take an edge over Pakistan. Maybe because Pakistan are used to fast bowlers winning it for them.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Qadir, Saqlain, Mushy Ahmed, Kaneria, Ajmal, Yasir - Thats a damn a good spin line up.

Bedi, Chandrashekhar; Prasanna, Venkat, Shivaramakrishnan, Hirwani, Kumble, Harbhajan, Karthik, Mishra, Ashwin, Jadeja, Kuldeep, Chahal - India has an army of quality spin bowling though quality wise one may say Pakistan's bes are either at par or even better.

Lankans havr Murali, Herath
Click to expand...

Out of these Bedi and Herath are so underrated.

Meanwhile Ashwin and Jadeja are so overrated.

Add Kuldeep Yadav, Chahal and Shadab Khan to that list as well.
 
Overall India (spin quartet to Kuldeep Yadav now, with many in-between, it's a strong legacy), while Pakistan is not that far behind : Prince Aslam Khan who invents the 'doosra' (though never played at national lvl), Abdul Qadir who resuscitates leg-spin/make spin bowling lethal in ODIs (also was a threat to Viv Richards, an achievement by itself), of course Saqlain Mushtaq, etc
 
WhenSultansBowled said:
Out of these Bedi and Herath are so underrated.

Meanwhile Ashwin and Jadeja are so overrated.

Add Kuldeep Yadav, Chahal and Shadab Khan to that list as well.
Click to expand...

Who underrates Bedi? He is a bonafide legend well revered bg experts and ex cricketers.

Herath also is well respected.

And why is Ashwin overrated? His numbers are phenomenal.
 
Quality wise i think Australia are right up there especially given their pitches - Grimmett/O'Reilly/Benaud/Mallett/Warne/MacGill/Lyon.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Quality wise i think Australia are right up there especially given their pitches - Grimmett/O'Reilly/Benaud/Mallett/Warne/MacGill/Lyon.
Click to expand...

Quality bowlers. When almost all spinners struggle in aus here are spinners who got most wickets in aus. MacGill was as big turner was warne was. Lyon is probably best offspinner right now in test cricket. Benaud and others were very good spinner too.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Quality wise i think Australia are right up there especially given their pitches - Grimmett/O'Reilly/Benaud/Mallett/Warne/MacGill/Lyon.
Click to expand...

Almost all of them played in ancient era of cricket. Obviously not their fault, but other than Warne (obviously), MacGill and Lyon, i don't rate any of them.
 
Rahul1 said:
Almost all of them played in ancient era of cricket. Obviously not their fault, but other than Warne (obviously), MacGill and Lyon, i don't rate any of them.
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Fair enough. But then do you rate the indian spin quartet of the 70's.
 
Sam99 said:
Quality bowlers. When almost all spinners struggle in aus here are spinners who got most wickets in aus. MacGill was as big turner was warne was. Lyon is probably best offspinner right now in test cricket. Benaud and others were very good spinner too.
Click to expand...

Yep. Some damn good spinners in their respective eras.
 
Pakistan easily.

Even Sri Lanka is ahead of India in terms of spin bowling prowess history.

Stats aren't everything, if that's the defense you are thinking to defend India lol. India is the third best only because of this. But Jaddus, Anils aren't quality 'spin' bowlers :))

Bangladesh is also a top if not the best left arm spin bowling nation in my pov.
Overall fourth.
 
Anik Sharma said:
Pakistan easily.

Even Sri Lanka is ahead of India in terms of spin bowling prowess history.

Stats aren't everything, if that's the defense you are thinking to defend India lol. India is the third best only because of this. But Jaddus, Anils aren't quality 'spin' bowlers :))

Bangladesh is also a top if not the best left arm spin bowling nation in my pov.
Overall fourth.
Click to expand...

So anil kumble isn't a quality spin bowler?
 
India Easily.No Competition.
If people call abdul qadir a quality spinner and kumble ordinary then they should get their heads examined.
Bedi,chandrashekhar,prasanna etc etc too many quality bowlers.
Sri Lanka has produced only 2 spinners worthy of mention.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
Does that mean anything.Only thing that matters is performance.He is the second greatest spinner from asia.Fact.
Click to expand...

For indian fans it may mean nothing.

I know your fact means stats. As Kumble has taken a lot more.

So Kumble greater than Warne? :))

Stats aren't always perfect indicator of greatness or capability :)

But its useless to argue with you because 90% Indian fans are stats crazy.
Even the players, that's why they often don't retire to just personal useless glories even if they had past their heydays.

Move on.
 
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Anik Sharma said:
For indian fans it may mean nothing.

I know your fact means stats. As Kumble has taken a lot more.

So Kumble greater than Warne? :))

Stats aren't always perfect indicator of greatness or capability :)

But its useless to argue with you because 90% Indian fans are stats crazy.
Even the players, that's why they often don't retire to just personal useless glories even if they had past their heydays.

Move on.
Click to expand...

So are abdul qadir or rangana's overseas stats warnesque?
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Fair enough. But then do you rate the indian spin quartet of the 70's.
Click to expand...

I consider 70s the beginning of modern cricket. So if you played entirety of your career before the 70s it becomes little difficult for me to rate you. But since they played majority of their career in the 70s i rate them very highly.
 
Anik Sharma said:
For indian fans it may mean nothing.

I know your fact means stats. As Kumble has taken a lot more.

So Kumble greater than Warne? :))

Stats aren't always perfect indicator of greatness or capability :)

But its useless to argue with you because 90% Indian fans are stats crazy.
Even the players, that's why they often don't retire to just personal useless glories even if they had past their heydays.

Move on.
Click to expand...

Stats are not everything because that will prove how avg BD players are? Lol.

600 plus test wickets. Does the entire BD team has that many?
 
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Australia and Sri Lanka. Aust have the most definitively great spinners: BoR, Grimmett, SKW. Then world class ones like MacGill.

Lanka have the greatest offspinner and SLA of all time.

India and Pakistan have had a few greats but not many stand up to scrutiny.
 
India has produced the best spinners. Sri Lanka has produced THE best though.
 
I think India holds the edge in Tests while Pakistan has produced better LOI spinners.
Plus Indian spinners have also had longevity something Pakistani spinners didn't.
We Intikhab Alam, Abdul Qadir, Tauseef Ahmad, Mushtaq Ahmad, Saqlain, Kaneria, Ajmal, Yasir Shah and probably Shadab in future and none of them have taken more than 261 wickets i think which is a record for us.
In India, they have had Bedi, Erapalli Prasanna, Kumble, Harbhajan, Ashwin, Jadeja and some more that i am forgetting. But the likes of Kumble, Harbhajan, Ashwin all have more than 300 wickets to their name.

In contrast I think our bowlers have been better in LOI's especially ODI's. Saqlain has probably been the best ODI spinner after Murali. Even Afridi presents his case as he took around 390 ODI wickets and was the best T20 spinner for some time.
 
England.

Bosanquet invented the googly. Rhodes. Verity. Wardle. Laker. Lock. Illingworth. Underwood. Emburey. Edmonds. Tufnell. Swann.
 
Robert said:
England.

Bosanquet invented the googly. Rhodes. Verity. Wardle. Laker. Lock. Illingworth. Underwood. Emburey. Edmonds. Tufnell. Swann.
Click to expand...

England hasnt been among the great spin bowling nations since a long time though. Last 40-50 years or so somelne other nation always had better spin attack overall.
 
jeeteshssaxena said:
India Easily.No Competition.
If people call abdul qadir a quality spinner and kumble ordinary then they should get their heads examined.
Bedi,chandrashekhar,prasanna etc etc too many quality bowlers.
Sri Lanka has produced only 2 spinners worthy of mention.
Click to expand...


Clearly you must be a young person. Cricket has Abdul Qadir to thank for keeping wrist-spin alive through the darkest years of the late 1970s and '80s. He did it with style, too. Blessed with a fast bowler's temperament and fire, he surrounded his craft with mystique.

Spin was a dieing art, if there’ was no Qadir then leg spin may not be relevant in today’s game.

t is impossible to believe that wrist-spin has ever been bowled better than Qadir did in his home city of Lahore in 1987-88, when he took 9 for 56 against England. Graham Gooch, who faced him that day, said Qadir was even finer than Shane Warne, to whom he passed the flame
 
adzzy786 said:
Clearly you must be a young person. Cricket has Abdul Qadir to thank for keeping wrist-spin alive through the darkest years of the late 1970s and '80s. He did it with style, too. Blessed with a fast bowler's temperament and fire, he surrounded his craft with mystique.

Spin was a dieing art, if there’ was no Qadir then leg spin may not be relevant in today’s game.

t is impossible to believe that wrist-spin has ever been bowled better than Qadir did in his home city of Lahore in 1987-88, when he took 9 for 56 against England. Graham Gooch, who faced him that day, said Qadir was even finer than Shane Warne, to whom he passed the flame
Click to expand...

The comment you quoted had nothing against Qadir. It was made as a reply to someone calling Kumble a poor spinner. Kumble has double the wickets Qadir took.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
England hasnt been among the great spin bowling nations since a long time though. Last 40-50 years or so somelne other nation always had better spin attack overall.
Click to expand...

The wickets have got pretty homogenous and unsuited to spin bowling.

Also wrist-spin has gone almost extinct and nobody at home knows how to coach it. Skippers want fingerspinners who can bowl a few tight overs while the seamers have a rest.

Swann was a fluke really. He gave it a massive rip and got drift so could beat the bat on both sides.
 
Sam99 said:
in That way bhuvi is better bowler than mcgrath because he swings ball? LOL :shhh
Click to expand...

Have you even see Mcgrath's bowling? If you have then you should be ashamed of saying such a thing.
 
Pakistan has always been a better bowling nation than India, this applies to spin bowling too.

Pakistan has had qadir, saqlain, mushy, abdur rehman, tauseef, kaneria, ajmal, Iqbal qasim, intikhab alam, which is a pretty impressive list and their averages are in the same range if not better than bedi, prasanna, Chandra, kumble, harbhajan.. the only exceptions are ashwin and jadeja, who have run through oppositions at home lately. It will be interesting to see if they maintain their averages by the end of their careers.


I would say given the circumstances Pakistan has produced more quality spinners than anyone, but Indian spinners have had more impact on their country’s test victories than the rest of the world.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
The comment you quoted had nothing against Qadir. It was made as a reply to someone calling Kumble a poor spinner. Kumble has double the wickets Qadir took.
Click to expand...

Only because India didn’t have any other wicket taking bowler than kumble to rely on., with Pakistan team, wickets were always split with bowlers like Imran, wasim, sarfaraz, etc.

Qadir performed away from home against the mighty Windies of the time.

But still I think kumble has had overall more impact than qadir but doesn’t make him a bigger bowler than qadir in my opinion.
 
Stewie said:
Only because India didn’t have any other wicket taking bowler than kumble to rely on., with Pakistan team, wickets were always split with bowlers like Imran, wasim, sarfaraz, etc.

Qadir performed away from home against the mighty Windies of the time.

But still I think kumble has had overall more impact than qadir but doesn’t make him a bigger bowler than qadir in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Bhaijaan respects both as they should be. In any case longevity does count for something. 619 are a hell lot of test wickets. I thought Kumble was at his best in fact by the end of his career.
 
Slim said:
Have you even see Mcgrath's bowling? If you have then you should be ashamed of saying such a thing.
Click to expand...

Many posters don’t understand the difference between a seam bowler and swing bowler, he must be one of those.
 
Slim said:
Have you even see Mcgrath's bowling? If you have then you should be ashamed of saying such a thing.
Click to expand...

I do and all i want to say is he didn't swing or seam alot and relied upon consistency still managed to be goat. Few spinners like macgill used to turn as much as warne did but still didn't play many matches. Kumble got 600+ wickets in test and i know he wasn't big turner nor great bowler but he was very good for us & that's all i wanted to say. You can't be overrated after playing 100+ tests and picking 600 wickets.
 
Titan24 said:
Many posters don’t understand the difference between a seam bowler and swing bowler, he must be one of those.
Click to expand...

Yeah not an expert like you guys but i know bit of seam and swing from what ever amount of cricket i have watched.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Bhaijaan respects both as they should be. In any case longevity does count for something. 619 are a hell lot of test wickets. I thought Kumble was at his best in fact by the end of his career.
Click to expand...
Longevity doesn’t mean kaneria was better than Qadir or mushy :)

Just saying..
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Bhaijaan respects both as they should be. In any case longevity does count for something. 619 are a hell lot of test wickets. I thought Kumble was at his best in fact by the end of his career.
Click to expand...

To be very honest, indian spinners were usually sold down the river by their negative captains on overseas tours. They were never given aggressive fields till ganguly came along and well that’s exactly when kumble thrived
 
Stewie said:
Longevity doesn’t mean kaneria was better than Qadir or mushy :)

Just saying..
Click to expand...

Well Longevity might not mean much when you have 300 odd wickets which is in case of Kaneri, but surely means a hell of a lot when you end up with 619 test wickets.
 
Stewie said:
To be very honest, indian spinners were usually sold down the river by their negative captains on overseas tours. They were never given aggressive fields till ganguly came along and well that’s exactly when kumble thrived
Click to expand...

That is true.

Indian sippers have been terrible at handling their spin options. Especially wrist spin.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
Well Longevity might not mean much when you have 300 odd wickets which is in case of Kaneri, but surely means a hell of a lot when you end up with 619 test wickets.
Click to expand...

Longevity such as kumbles also means he was bowled heavily in face of other non-wicket taking options. Had qadir or mushy played for India, they both might also have ended up with as many wickets..... but i digress.... it’s a very subjective debate.. let’s just say Pakistan and india are the two top spin bowling nations..
 
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Robert said:
England.

Bosanquet invented the googly. Rhodes. Verity. Wardle. Laker. Lock. Illingworth. Underwood. Emburey. Edmonds. Tufnell. Swann.
Click to expand...

good shout. Will put in Panesar as well on that list. Pocock was highly underrated IMO.
 
Stewie said:
Longevity such as kumbles also means he was bowled heavily in face of other non-wicket taking options. Had qadir or mushy played for India, they both might also have ended up with as many wickets..... but i digress.... it’s a very subjective debate.. let’s just say Pakistan and india are the two top spin bowling nations..
Click to expand...

I disagree with you if you suggest anybody can take 600+ test wickets if allowed to play that long. Its a disgrace of a comment if you feel so. Every test wicket takes a lot. Any bowler who plays test cricket for that long, if you put them down comparing them to bowlers with less than half his wickets tally its a disgrace, Show some respect.
 
Kumble and Harbhajan both kept Murali Karthik out of Indian team who was probably better than both of them in his peak years. Every time India unleashed Karthik he looked more threatening. Kumble was special though in the way that he could run through batting line-ups like a fast bowler when on song.
 
In terms of quality I'd say Pakistan but I think Sri lanka produced more spinners than any other team.
 
PAKISTAN : I think quality wise... Qadir/Saqlain resurrected/innovated aspects in their respective fields.

Mushy was a WC winning leggie, Kaneria had strong peaks in his career..albeit during a period when the sultans/akhtars bowled and dominated...moreover as heard in one of the interviews..Saqlain was not even allowed to apply saliva on the ball to soften it..as it wasnt conducive to reverse swing..

Ajmal was prolific in all formats and Yasir has controlled outcomes of test matches in Asia.

Now you have Shadab..(I have not considered Raza Hasan or Imad Wasim as they have not made an impact as significant as Shadab, and the exploits of okayish spinners like Hafeez and Arshad Khan have also neglected)

INDIA : India have always doctored spin friendly pitches. I'm not that acquainted with the spin quatret..but from there onwards, only Kumble deserves special mentioning..and after him, it has been Harbhajan, Ashwin, Jaddu and now Chahal and Kuldeep.

SRI LANKA : Murali, Herath, Dilruwan, Akila Dhananjaya, Lakshan Sandakan, Ajantha Mendis all top quality spinners. Murali being an ATG , Herath too almost there..but not so good in undoctored pitches. Sri lanka have got a spin squad that can rip you apart in spin friendly conditions..currently Pakistan aren't able to do it.

BAN : Cannon fodder, save Shakib.
 
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