Which player would you select in your Test team?

[street cricketer]

Garry Sobers
Imran Khan
Ian Botham
Jacques Kallis

If you could select only one player from the above list, who would you pick in your test team?

Which player would you bank on to contribute equally with both bat, ball and in the field irrespective of the match venue?

 

[street cricketer]

My personal pick would be Imran. He perhaps reached the highest peak as a test all rounder in the 80s. Wasn't effective in the 70s while deteriorated as a bowler in the 90s. But he was a gun all rounder in the 80s when he was an ATG bowler and a solid middle order batsman. Perhaps the only thing you can hold against him is that he didn't bowl consistently as many overs during a few years because his career was marred with injuries especially around '83 which restricted his bowling. But even then, he has a phenomenal strike rate which tells you that he was very effective in the overs he bowled.

I've read online from a few people that Mike Procter would've been the best ever all rounder had he played international cricket. But we can't quite come to a conclusion if we haven't seen him play international cricket long enough. Among those who played international cricket, it's close between Khan, Sobers and Kallis imo. But I think Imran's lesser discipline was better than the other two and hence my pick.

 

[kingusama92]

Imran Khan.

He's the piece we're lacking in the test team.

 

[street cricketer]

Imran Khan.

He's the piece we're lacking in the test team.

He is there.

 

[street cricketer]

I also picked Botham because he had a great peak particularly from his debut for about six years. Of course, "the Botham's Ashes" was an iconic series where he almost single handedly won the most coveted trophy against his greatest rivals. His career took a downward curve after his chronic knee injury unfortunately.

 

[kingusama92]

He is there.

You set this thread up for that joke didn't you?

 

[SL_Fan]

Can't go wrong with either Sobers or Imran.

 

[Slog]

Botham eventhough Id say he is worse than the other 3 in his career

The only cricketing problem with Imran to me is that his best phases with the bat didnt always coincide with his best phases with the ball impact-wise even if statistically they did.

As a batsman he was very smart in later years and had a lot of utility but was not someone you could build your team around.

Sobers had the same problem, albeit with the ball and to a much bigger extent arguably.

Same case with Kallis.

 

[abughio]

I think I will pick kallis.. he was gem.. it may not be popular opinion in PP avoiding imran khan.

But all-round I will pick Imran due to his captaincy and fighting spirit.

 

[ahmedwaqas92]

Kaptaan !! Obviously !!

 

[The_Odd_One]

In an ATG team, there will be probably 3 fast bowlers + 1 spinner + 1 part-timer. Imran and Botham are not among the top 3 test bowlers, so they are eliminated. Sobers as the 2nd spinner adds more value to the team than Kallis as a medium pacer. So, I pick Sobers.

Sobers is the best option as a 5th bowling option aka a very very rich man's (probably Bill Gates level) Hafeez.

 

[street cricketer]

You set this thread up for that joke didn't you?

He he..Couldn't resist it.

 

[Buffet]

Garry Sobers
Imran Khan
Ian Botham
Jacques Kallis

If you could select only one player from the above list, who would you pick in your test team?

Which player would you bank on to contribute equally with both bat, ball and in the field irrespective of the match venue?

Top 10 peak ratings of all rounders.

1. Sir Garry Sobers 669
2. Sir Ian Botham 646
3. Jacques Kallis 616
4. Keith Miller 573
5. Richie Benaud 532
6. Imran Khan 518
7. Tony Greig 509
8. Andrew Flintoff 501
9. Aubrey Faulkner 501
10. Chris Cairns 500

From your list of 4, 3 appear on top and that's mainly due to contributing with bat and ball in the same period. This doesn't take account of fielding, but if you take that as factor then it leaves no doubt that we are left with Sobers, Kallis and Botham. If you talk about entire career then Botham may not make it , but if we take a period then Botham and Sobers will come as the two top candidate who can contribute with bat , ball and fielding in the same time period better than others.

I will take Sobers here.

 

[Mamoon]

I believe that Sobers' status as the greatest all-rounder of all time is overstated and I'm sure [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] will disagree.

A lot of what is said about him is hearsay and nostalgia-driven anecdotes by former players and analysts. He was head and shoulders above anyone of his era and no one could match his all-round skill.

He could bat in the top-order, bowl pace, bowl spin and also field brilliantly, but he stood out because he was the champion all-rounder of his time with no competition.

However, would Sobers have the same reputation and legacy had he played alongside Imran, Kapil, Botham, Rice, Proctor or even Hadlee? I don't think so.

He would still be great, but he would not have had monopoly over the greatest all-rounder tag. Unfortunately, his status has been set in stone by the establishment and you are not allowed to challenge his status, just like you are not allowed to challenge Bradman's status as the best batsman of all time.

If a modern day batsman averages 70+ in both Tests and ODIs and scores 50+ hundreds in both, he will still be not as good as Bradman.

 

[Zak_Fan]

From an Indian perspective, I would choose Imran as we need a world class bowler real bad. Otherwise, I would go with Sobers or Kallis.

 

[The_Odd_One]

I believe that Sobers' status as the greatest all-rounder of all time is overstated and I'm sure [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] will disagree.

A lot of what is said about him is hearsay and nostalgia-driven anecdotes by former players and analysts. He was head and shoulders above anyone of his era and no one could match his all-round skill.

He could bat in the top-order, bowl pace, bowl spin and also field brilliantly, but he stood out because he was the champion all-rounder of his time with no competition.

However, would Sobers have the same reputation and legacy had he played alongside Imran, Kapil, Botham, Rice, Proctor or even Hadlee? I don't think so.

He would still be great, but he would not have had monopoly over the greatest all-rounder tag. Unfortunately, his status has been set in stone by the establishment and you are not allowed to challenge his status, just like you are not allowed to challenge Bradman's status as the best batsman of all time.

If a modern day batsman averages 70+ in both Tests and ODIs and scores 50+ hundreds in both, he will still be not as good as Bradman.

If one picks a team based on career averages, none from modern era will make it on the team. Stats from past really should not be given that much weight.

 

[Mamoon]

Top 10 peak ratings of all rounders.

1. Sir Garry Sobers 669
2. Sir Ian Botham 646
3. Jacques Kallis 616
4. Keith Miller 573
5. Richie Benaud 532
6. Imran Khan 518
7. Tony Greig 509
8. Andrew Flintoff 501
9. Aubrey Faulkner 501
10. Chris Cairns 500

From your list of 4, 3 appear on top and that's mainly due to contributing with bat and ball in the same period. This doesn't take account of fielding, but if you take that as factor then it leaves no doubt that we are left with Sobers, Kallis and Botham. If you talk about entire career then Botham may not make it , but if we take a period then Botham and Sobers will come as the two top candidate who can contribute with bat , ball and fielding in the same time period better than others.

I will take Sobers here.

The problem with using individual player ratings from different eras is that it ignores the level of competition, which means it is not a level playing field.

Sobers did not have the competition that Imran or Botham had in their eras. You had four top all-rounders in the 80's and I don't think that Sobers would have enjoyed the same dominance if he was competing with them.

 

[Buffet]

If a modern day batsman averages 70+ in both Tests and ODIs and scores 50+ hundreds in both, he will still be not as good as Bradman.

I will take that person over Bradman without thinking even for a second.

 

[Mamoon]

If we speak of 'peaks' only, it is very hard to look beyond Botham. Even though he took advantage of some Kerry Packer rejects, what he did in his first 50 Tests was the stuff of gods and unrivaled in cricketing history.

No player has been simultaneously as good with both bat and ball as Botham was between 1977-1982. The only all-rounder who was genuinely world class in three disciples at the same time.

 

[Mamoon]

I will take that person over Bradman without thinking even for a second.

So will I, but I'm sure a lot of people will claim that Bradman would have done better in the current era, or this hypothetical player would have done worse than Bradman back then.

 

[Buffet]

The problem with using individual player ratings from different eras is that it ignores the level of competition, which means it is not a level playing field.

Sobers did not have the competition that Imran or Botham had in their eras. You had four top all-rounders in the 80's and I don't think that Sobers would have enjoyed the same dominance if he was competing with them.

I am not taking ratings to decide the best all rounder. I put it out there to see who contributed in same period because ratings gives equal weight to batting and bowling. You can argue that standard of teams was less in Sobers time and that's a different issue.

I was mainly tackling the question about some one who contributed with bat , ball and fielding at the same time. I think Botham(first half) and Sobers were the top 2. Sure, Botham went missing against the best team and Sobers played in earlier era. Still, I will put these two in top for contributing with bat, ball and fielding at the same time. Comparing across generations is always going to be difficult because they didn't play against similar quality of teams.

 

[Buffet]

If we speak of 'peaks' only, it is very hard to look beyond Botham.

My intention was not to compare peaks of all rounders. Since you accumulate equal ratings for batting and bowling, it will be only possible to come near the top with contributions from both skills in same time period. For fielding we can make our own judgement. I won't have much argument against Botham being the one here if we restrict it to first half of his career. For entire career, he will drop down in list.

 

[Mamoon]

My intention was not to compare peaks of all rounders. Since you accumulate equal ratings for batting and bowling, it will be only possible to come near the top with contributions from both skills in same time period. For fielding we can make our own judgement. I won't have much argument against Botham being the one here if we restrict it to first half of his career. For entire career, he will drop down in list.

To be honest, that is always the challenge when you make an all-time XI or when you have to choose between 4-5 players for one position. You have to decide if you want to choose based on overall career or the respective peaks, and it will influence your answer a lot.

Based on overall career, I would go with Imran; based on peak performances, I will go with Botham because he was a world class batsman and bowler in his peak and has impacted with both bat and ball at the same time better than any other all-rounder.

 

[Chrish]

all depends on what rest of the xi looks like..

 

[MMHS]

To be honest, that is always the challenge when you make an all-time XI or when you have to choose between 4-5 players for one position. You have to decide if you want to choose based on overall career or the respective peaks, and it will influence your answer a lot.

Based on overall career, I would go with Imran; based on peak performances, I will go with Botham because he was a world class batsman and bowler in his peak and has impacted with both bat and ball at the same time better than any other all-rounder.

I am not sure which period you'll take as peak for Botham, but probably 1977 to 1983 - when his batting average was around 35 & bowling average 25 - which includes 12 Tests against Packer Reject AUS, PAK & NZ. I can squeeze the span a bit narrow to bring 1978 to 1982 summer, to accommodate his Bombay Test, his 1981 Ashes, his 1978 Summer against Packer reject PAK, NZ & winter against Packer reject AUS & his innings 218 of 1982 home series against IND - still it stands at 45 Tests for 36.59 batting average & 24.29 bowling average.

Do the same maths for whole of 1980s for Imran, it stands at 40 with bat & 18 with ball for 48 Tests. & I haven't twisted date by few days to add his 136 in Jan 1990. And if I do that for 1st Jan 1980 to 31 Dec 1983 - it stands at 25 Test with 1200 runs at 45 & 134 wickets at 16.7 - nobody, not even Bradman stands with that peak. And this period doesn't include Packer rejects.

I am not sure, what peak your are talking about, unless it's a single Test qualifier - which stands - 13 wickets & Century vs 11 wickets & century.

 

[MMHS]

I am not sure which period you'll take as peak for Botham, but probably 1977 to 1983 - when his batting average was around 35 & bowling average 25 - which includes 12 Tests against Packer Reject AUS, PAK & NZ. I can squeeze the span a bit narrow to bring 1978 to 1982 summer, to accommodate his Bombay Test, his 1981 Ashes, his 1978 Summer against Packer reject PAK, NZ & winter against Packer reject AUS & his innings 218 of 1982 home series against IND - still it stands at 45 Tests for 36.59 batting average & 24.29 bowling average.

Do the same maths for whole of 1980s for Imran, it stands at 40 with bat & 18 with ball for 48 Tests. & I haven't twisted date by few days to add his 136 in Jan 1990. And if I do that for 1st Jan 1980 to 31 Dec 1983 - it stands at 25 Test with 1200 runs at 45 & 134 wickets at 16.7 - nobody, not even Bradman stands with that peak. And this period doesn't include Packer rejects.

I am not sure, what peak your are talking about, unless it's a single Test qualifier - which stands - 13 wickets & Century vs 11 wickets & century.

Just to add, if I extend that to Nov 1987, before 1st retirement - that's cool 8 years from Jan 1980, including 2 years at prime with a cracked fimar (& 1 more year for rehabilitation - you are a doctor, so I need not to explain what it means for a 32 years old fast bowler having metal clips at left fimar for 2 years) - it stands at 45 Tests - almost 2000 runs at 41 and 213 wickets at 17.7 ...............

 

[Major]

Before being given the option to select anyone, i would first analyse what my team needs the most, and not just pick the greatest player of the country randomly, because just having a greatest player of the country in your team isn't going to help.

For example, one could say Tendulkar is the greatest player of India, but whats the point of selecting him in the team when you don't even need him as the likes of Virat Kohli are there to score you runs.

From the list posted in the OP, i wouldn't bother to select anyone. Why? Not that those players arn't great, they are all great, but as batsmen alone they can't solve Pakistans batting problem. You need 2-3 batsmen to do that, and i would trust Babar Azam, Sami Aslam, Younis and Misbah.

Even as bowlers i wouldn't select any of them, no that i don't rate them, but they are not needed.

What i would do is get Saqlain Mushtaq.

Reason is simple.

There is not a single right arm off spinner in this country, and barely anyone in the world who could bowl a doosra. Offspinners have massively reduced so oppositions would be at risk in facing one. The doosra itself brings an advantage for us aswell.

One might argue we already got Yasir, but he is a leggie. He is good, but a good off spinner will always be better then a leggie

 

[Mamoon]

I am not sure which period you'll take as peak for Botham, but probably 1977 to 1983 - when his batting average was around 35 & bowling average 25 - which includes 12 Tests against Packer Reject AUS, PAK & NZ. I can squeeze the span a bit narrow to bring 1978 to 1982 summer, to accommodate his Bombay Test, his 1981 Ashes, his 1978 Summer against Packer reject PAK, NZ & winter against Packer reject AUS & his innings 218 of 1982 home series against IND - still it stands at 45 Tests for 36.59 batting average & 24.29 bowling average.

Do the same maths for whole of 1980s for Imran, it stands at 40 with bat & 18 with ball for 48 Tests. & I haven't twisted date by few days to add his 136 in Jan 1990. And if I do that for 1st Jan 1980 to 31 Dec 1983 - it stands at 25 Test with 1200 runs at 45 & 134 wickets at 16.7 - nobody, not even Bradman stands with that peak. And this period doesn't include Packer rejects.

I am not sure, what peak your are talking about, unless it's a single Test qualifier - which stands - 13 wickets & Century vs 11 wickets & century.

Stats can be argued all day long, one can argue that Botham raced to 1,000 and 100 wickets, 2,000 and 200 wickets and 3,000 and 300 wickets as well as the fact that no all-rounder has more hundreds and 5-fers. I would rate Botham as a much better batsman than Imran and the reverse is true for me when it comes to bowling.

For his peak, I'm considering his first 50 Tests, a period where he notched up 9 Test hundreds (one more than Imran scored in his whole career) and took 19 five-wicket hauls (just 4 less than Imran's whole career tally). Now I perfectly understand the circumstances and the context why Imran did not score a lot of hundreds and why he lost a lot of bowling peak years due to injury, and also I accounted for the Packer rejects against which Botham padded up his stats (I mentioned it before you brought it to the table), but in spite of considering all of this, I have my doubts over Imran's ability to influence the game with the bat in the same vein as Botham could in his peak.

After studying all the top all-rounders of that era in depth, I've come to the conclusion that no one topped Botham when it came to the ability to influence the game with both bat and ball at the same time like he did in his peak. I have my reservations regarding Imran's prowess as a batsman (again, taking all the factors into consideration) and I would rank him well below Botham with the bat and just a little below Kapil.

As far as bowling is concerned, he is well ahead of them all except Hadlee. Hence, one can say that Imran was the most complete all-rounder of that era when you take the whole career into account. Hadlee was not an ATG batsman, Kapil was not an ATG bowler while Botham (in his peak) and Imran were ATG all-rounders.

However, since we are only discussing peaks here, I am yet to see any convincing argument why I should consider a portion of Imran's career as superior to Botham's first 50 Tests when it comes to impacting the game with both bat and ball at the same time.

 

[Abdullah719]

From the list posted in the OP, i wouldn't bother to select anyone. Why? Not that those players arn't great, they are all great, but as batsmen alone they can't solve Pakistans batting problem. You need 2-3 batsmen to do that, and i would trust Babar Azam, Sami Aslam, Younis and Misbah.

Babar, Sami, Younis and Misbah are better batsmen than Sobers and Kallis?

 

[Major]

Babar, Sami, Younis and Misbah are better batsmen than Sobers and Kallis?

Obviously not better.

But when you got 4-5 batsmen for the job whats the need in bringing one more in when you could bring ab offie which we dont have

 

[Sin Nombre]

I will take that person over Bradman without thinking even for a second.

If a batsman ends with 70+ in tests and 60+ in ODIs; I'll take him over Bradman without a doubt.

Even at 65+ in test and 55+ in ODIs, it will be a no brainer. The said batsman will literally be the best batsman in 70 years of modern cricket over two very different formats.

If VK ends with 50+ in all 3 formats, he will have a shout himself.

 

[Abdullah719]

Obviously not better.

But when you got 4-5 batsmen for the job whats the need in bringing one more in when you could bring ab offie which we dont have

But Saqlain is not part of the conversation. The OP is obviously geared towards choosing from the best all-rounders.

Imran Khan in a heartbeat for me. Our current pace attack is pretty weak too.

 

[MMHS]

Stats can be argued all day long, one can argue that Botham raced to 1,000 and 100 wickets, 2,000 and 200 wickets and 3,000 and 300 wickets as well as the fact that no all-rounder has more hundreds and 5-fers. I would rate Botham as a much better batsman than Imran and the reverse is true for me when it comes to bowling.

For his peak, I'm considering his first 50 Tests, a period where he notched up 9 Test hundreds (one more than Imran scored in his whole career) and took 19 five-wicket hauls (just 4 less than Imran's whole career tally). Now I perfectly understand the circumstances and the context why Imran did not score a lot of hundreds and why he lost a lot of bowling peak years due to injury, and also I accounted for the Packer rejects against which Botham padded up his stats (I mentioned it before you brought it to the table), but in spite of considering all of this, I have my doubts over Imran's ability to influence the game with the bat in the same vein as Botham could in his peak.

After studying all the top all-rounders of that era in depth, I've come to the conclusion that no one topped Botham when it came to the ability to influence the game with both bat and ball at the same time like he did in his peak. I have my reservations regarding Imran's prowess as a batsman (again, taking all the factors into consideration) and I would rank him well below Botham with the bat and just a little below Kapil.

As far as bowling is concerned, he is well ahead of them all except Hadlee. Hence, one can say that Imran was the most complete all-rounder of that era when you take the whole career into account. Hadlee was not an ATG batsman, Kapil was not an ATG bowler while Botham (in his peak) and Imran were ATG all-rounders.

However, since we are only discussing peaks here, I am yet to see any convincing argument why I should consider a portion of Imran's career as superior to Botham's first 50 Tests when it comes to impacting the game with both bat and ball at the same time.

You see, you are putting a qualifier of 1st 50 Test as the peak, simply because that statistically fits your argument; otherwise in any career, peak is considered the best few years of a career. In that regard, ifI take 1st 100 ODI of Tendulkar ... you know. And that first 50 Test statistical superiority is only because Botham (no disrespect, 2nd best all-rounder ever, tied with 3 others) had lots of matches against sub-standard teams in that period. Even, in his peak days, apart from that 1981 Ashes (which Pom media blown out of proportion - truth is Greg Chappel, Thompson & Pascoe didn't tour, while Hogg played 1.5 Tests before injuring himself), he had 9 Series against WI - batting average ~10, bowling average 30+; 1982-83 Ashes down under - batting average ~27, bowling average ~40. He played 6 Tests in 1982 summer - 3 against IND (batting average 134), 3 against PAK - batting average ~25. Moreover, thinking of that head to head of 1982 made him chasing Imran for through out his life.

The 5 wicket theory I can take partially, with a foot note. 5 wicket hauls are a function of match duration & the amount of overs you are bowling - it's always good to have a 5 for, but it doesn't help much for 100 runs - it's like Walshi's 519 Test wickets. In many, many spells, Imran had 3/30, 4/40 & the match ended in draw, simply because of the duration of match - since you have analyzed the matches, I don't think I need to explain this. But, more or less, the bowling argument is settled.

Coming to batting, you are probably among 2/3 people who considers Botham as better bat than Imran (& first one, when it comes to Kapil - even, I have read & heard Indians for 25 years . Every former cricketer that I have read or heard said that among 4 greats, Imran was the most proper batsman - technically most complete to play pace, spin, swing & bounce, who batted at No. 4 for Sussex, while Botham at 5/6 for Somerset & Kapil at 6 for Northants (?). The word "Impact" I understand, though it's a bit over used - but here I have to argue, because we are talking about Test batting.

Batting in Test is not about slogging or SR only & it's a misleading word - batting to win. I haven't read such qualifiers when we talk about Kapil's 4 SIX at Lord's or his 129 at St. Georges. In Test (Actually in cricket), batting is all about serving the purpose - be it aggressive or defensive when it matters. Saving a Test is equal to win a Test - Imran played most part of his career for a struggling batting unit - hence he had to bat for salvaging most times. I can categorically tell that, he could have played some quick fire innings, still would have averaged at least well above Kapil - BUT, you can't even think of Botham saving a Test like Multan (WI, '81), MCG (84), Adelaide (90), SCG (90), Madras, Eden, Jaypur, Karachi (WI), Pindi (WI), Birmingham (82, 87), Leeds. Or him batting in a low scoring Bangalore ('87) - these are not statistically stunning innings, but impactful indeed.

As I said, he played for a much weaker batting line-up hence often had to salvage something - BUT, few times, when he had the chance to bat with his top order standing firm - he damaged some career - ask the Indian spinners touring PAK in 1978, or the Indian bowlers in 82. The batting filter that you are using, by that logic Flintoff comes almost at per with Jaques Kallis .....

Any way, I appreciate your last line regarding ATG All-rounder - in fact, not for peak years (1st 50 Test); Sir Ian Botham was truly an outstanding all-rounder, one who could make the ENG team simply as a batsman or bowler for few years. And, he was probably among top 5 slip catchers I have seen, despite his "thirst" pushing his bread basket out.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Sobers without question. One of the greatest batsmen of all-time, possessive of a golden arm equally adept at bowling seam up or spin.

 

[Hasan123]

Kallis is the only one of these I saw play. Don't think I can say for certain who I would want.

 

[Justcrazy]

I would go with Imran .

A fast bowling all rounder is golden thing to have.

 

[street cricketer]

Would like to hear opinions of [MENTION=7774]Robert[/MENTION] [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] [MENTION=139981]HitWicket[/MENTION] [MENTION=132982]soso_killer[/MENTION] [MENTION=134334]Ozymandiasza[/MENTION] [MENTION=4136]test fan[/MENTION] [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] on the topic.

 

[James]

Definitely not Kallis who is way behind the other three.

Botham, because I am biased towards the slightly tubby English legend.

 

[QalandarFan]

Imran Khan!

 

[Bilal7]

Imran Khan and quite easily. At his peak, he was second only to Marshall with the ball, a more than decent middle-order batsman who could attack and defend in equal measure, a safe fielder if not the most athletic one and one of the best captains of all time.

Second would be Botham. At his peak, he was a lesser version of Imran.